Patrons/KZread members - live Q&A this Sunday, ask us anything.

@anjusanal

4 жыл бұрын

I love You GUYS!!! PS:Can you please do a video about Napoleon's marshals and generals after you complete the Napoleonic war battles?

@albatros33

4 жыл бұрын

Kings and Generals Do a video about Caucasian Khanates pls

@ajithsidhu7183

4 жыл бұрын

Please do one on the sikh empire please and the afgan sikh and 1st bristish sikh wars

@TyrannosaurusRex5027

4 жыл бұрын

Kings and Generals I have a question, what is your favorite dinosaur?

@KingsandGenerals

4 жыл бұрын

@@TyrannosaurusRex5027 birds :-)

Ngl, I got a little frustrated and dissapointed that the chinese diplomat didn't find a way to Rome

@jinjunliu2401

4 жыл бұрын

at least he tried, sadly Rome didn't even try

@ericconnor8251

4 жыл бұрын

@@jinjunliu2401 Not necessarily. The Greco-Roman geographer Ptolemy actually mapped out the South China Sea and Gulf of Thailand, albeit inaccurately, and his description of "Cattigara" was most likely Oc Eo, Vietnam, then part of the Champa Kingdom that bordered the Chinese Han Empire's province in northern Vietnam. The Chinese Book of Later Han talks about a Roman embassy coming this way by sea in 166 AD.

@090giver090

4 жыл бұрын

@@jinjunliu2401 Chinese sorces have mentioned couple roman embassies visiting chinese court in 2nd and 3rd century. But it's debatable wether they were official missions or private entrprises.

@Harshhaze

4 жыл бұрын

All roads lead to Rome... Except for the Chinese

@tubplunger

4 жыл бұрын

I'm just glad they didn't actually decide to go south into the Arabian Peninsula by land. If the heat didn't kill them then the nomads there would have. And I don't know anything about Parthian infrastructure, but couldn't have somebody pointed them north on some road to Ctesiphon and then Rome?

"it's impossible to reach the great western empire" "did you make sure?" "yeah we asked like 3 sailors"

@Dante_-cg3fq

4 жыл бұрын

But the western empire reach them Rome always make his way

@uninterruptedrhythm4104

4 жыл бұрын

@a z Parthia always had uneasy relations with Rome. Rome repeatedly tried to invade them, and vice versa

@Katapharos

4 жыл бұрын

@a z Parthia likely wouldn't have wanted Han to know of Rome's existence on their western frontier. Han would've likely seen Rome as an ally against Parthia for Han's own Central Asian ambitions.

@alvintheng8501

4 жыл бұрын

Katapharos the Han like to know people from different culture background, different kingdoms. It’s all about trading opportunities

@Cyberpunkerify

4 жыл бұрын

Probably against Parthia's best interests for there to be a Han China and Roman Empire alliance

"We were on the verge of greatness we were this close"

@thegreendragoninn8730

4 жыл бұрын

Lol. Seems like Star Wars memes are relevant in any conversation!

@gulmaraz5931

4 жыл бұрын

They would have been total bros

@dxq3647

4 жыл бұрын

This happened too many times. It is sad. We almost united the world, but here we are.

@Boooooooooo541

4 жыл бұрын

@@gulmaraz5931 Nah they would have gone to war eventually.

@Ai404Ai

4 жыл бұрын

Ben A. True, it’s the same theory from Luo guanzhong, the author of “ Three Kingdoms”: “The empire, long divided, must unite; long united, must divide.”

Rome and China talking about each other is like me and my friend grading each other's test

@byc6230

4 жыл бұрын

ZuboyTV 😂, comment of the day!

@ManHeyuan

4 жыл бұрын

While it is true China has zero savage battle experience for decades, it is equally true that the US has zero experience managing a lasting civilization. China opened the Silk Road. Yet, not everyone would be savvy enough to benefit from it. The Brits imposed the Opium Road. Yet, not everyone had the power to resist it. All roads led to Rome. Yet, not everyone could become Rome, despite centuries passed. Western powers did seem however, to adopt Chinese inventions of the gunpowder and magnetic compasses to good global colonial effect. Even the influence of Christianity couldn’t have spread, without the revolutionary impact of Chinese printing tech. That’s why Gutenberg was voted the man of the last millennium.

@Madhattersinjeans

4 жыл бұрын

@@ManHeyuan Taiwan numba 1! China numba 4!

@gm-fw9de

3 жыл бұрын

@@Madhattersinjeans nope China is Number 1 and you must speak english funny.

@SGT676

3 жыл бұрын

@@gm-fw9de how much did your social credit go up by for that statement

"All roads lead to Dai Chi"

@barbiquearea

4 жыл бұрын

More like Daqin or 大秦

@Dustz92

4 жыл бұрын

???

@krankarvolund7771

4 жыл бұрын

Well, except the one took by Gan Ying XD

@benedictjajo

4 жыл бұрын

@@krankarvolund7771 well, he made the mistake of taking the sea route.

@user-wm9sj8ce1c

4 жыл бұрын

条条大路通罗马！

Almost all Chinese historic record about Romans(Da Qin 大秦), are positive, if not too exaggeratedly praising. You can assume it's like Marco Polo praising the Yuan dynasty, saying Chinese roads were paved with jades and ivory, palaces were built by gold. Chinese records praised the political system of Roman(and later Byzantine) empire and its administrative bureaucrats, saying it enable an empire larger than their own to function and prosper in an unimaginable efficiency. Given the facts that there were seldom Chinese who has really been there, most of the description might come from merchants or bluffing envoys.

@eid8fkebe7f27ejdjdjduyhsvqhwu2

4 жыл бұрын

And on the other side we have "Um, these Chinese have gem stones and silks, and our women... um, ruin our purses with all those Chinese products. Damn you, womz."

@liubalthsar9820

4 жыл бұрын

Cancel yes, avatar drawn by Pixiv member 4162402.

@day2148

4 жыл бұрын

This still happens. Chinese views of America/Europe even today are excessively positive, and as a result most Chinese who travel to western countries feel the "Paris Syndrome" when reality fails to hold up to expectations.

@FwendlyMushwoom

4 жыл бұрын

@@caiawlodarski5339 Probably because the Roman Empire, while big, the center of it was mostly water because of the Mediterranean Sea, while China's empire was all land.

@someguy3766

4 жыл бұрын

I imagine they were inclined to bestow a favourable image upon Rome because they saw it as a reflection of themselves at the other end of the known world. China was a great empire, Rome was a great empire, naturally they would prefer to paint a picture of it that validated their own ideals - strength, power, order, civilisation etc. The reality of Rome was one of slaves, corruption and conquest, but then morality was different in those harsher times, and for all the blood spilt in its name Rome brought great peace, wealth and stability to the lands under its rule. The Chinese probably would've appreciated that.

The reason why the Gan Ying never reach the Roman Territory is because the Parthian officials feared that Rome and China would devour Parthia from 2 sides, so the Parthians duped Gan Ying for that reasons.

@willsplayify

4 жыл бұрын

But it's kinda impossible tho, logistically both roman and china cannot supply such a campaign so far away

@shido8597

4 жыл бұрын

@@willsplayify they can, the silk road would make that happen, and China could conquer most of the Asian kingdoms in that time

@alvintheng8501

4 жыл бұрын

Grand Moff Tarkin logistically it is impossible, we are talking about mobilizing a professional armies of at least 50k, with cavalry, archer and infantry, cooks and thousands of ox bagged with weapons and foods along the journey. It is a disaster. Economically, Parthian will benefit from being the middlemen from this outcome. Thad the most sensible answer

@daryndrake4393

4 жыл бұрын

The Parthians also were economically prosperous due to being the middle-men through which Chinese and Roman merchants exchanged goods. So they duped him for fear that China would find a direct trading route to Rome and skip them entirely when doing commerce on the Silk Road.

@64standardtrickyness

4 жыл бұрын

@@alvintheng8501 Alexander did an even further campaign with fewer resources than the Roman empire, so did Genghis Khan.

Shame the sailors had a financial incentive to not tell him of the land route

@hyltoniali257

4 жыл бұрын

SCarr That is reason from the surface, much thoughtful consideration would involve economic benefits & diplomatic politics

@ManHeyuan

4 жыл бұрын

While it is true China has zero savage battle experience for decades, it is equally true that the US has zero experience managing a lasting civilization. China opened the Silk Road. Yet, not everyone would be savvy enough to benefit from it. The Brits imposed the Opium Road. Yet, not everyone had the power to resist it. All roads led to Rome. Yet, not everyone could become Rome, despite centuries passed. Western powers did seem however, to adopt Chinese inventions of the gunpowder and magnetic compasses to good global colonial effect. Even the influence of Christianity couldn’t have spread, without the revolutionary impact of Chinese printing tech. That’s why Gutenberg was voted the man of the last millennium.

@gottagofastest

4 жыл бұрын

@@ManHeyuan +5 social credit score has been added to your profile

@akatsukicloak

3 жыл бұрын

@@ManHeyuan Dude Christianity was already widespread through a good portion of the world by the time press was available. There was a thing called memory, written books and churches.

@cardboardbox191

3 жыл бұрын

Maybe they didn't know of any land routes to rome. also syria isn't the capital of rome they might have logical concluded he wanted to go to rome. Maybe they thought he was a merchant. If they knew he was a diplomat they might have said just take the land route and ask a roman official.

It seems that the community between roman and china is a hot topic among historic youtube Channels these days.

@TheBacknblack92

4 жыл бұрын

They have 2000yr old bones of foreign individuals buried on the Emperors estate in Vagnari whose mitochondrial DNA shows a maternal east asian origin People claiming to be Roman emissaries are recorded to have arrived in china in 166AD through the 230s. 1st century AD coins and glassware have been found in china and in sites as far as Japan and Vietnam. Same with roman glassware. Romans had mapped all the way to Vietnam The histories are weird because a lot is lost and the word used to describe them in latin could also refer to multiple other asian peoples. Serica from "land of silk" with the people called Seres. Both empires had decent respect for one another

@brandonbohr.7301

4 жыл бұрын

Both are the cradles of western civilisation ( Roman Empire ) and Sinic or Confuncian civilisation ( Han dynasty) I mean China, Japan , Korea and Vietnam

@AL3X2580

4 жыл бұрын

I remember reading about it on reddit like 5 years ago. Then thought of it for the first time since a month ago. Went to look it in more detail and it was stoked to see Voices of the past uploaded a video mere days prior.

@alissa6

4 жыл бұрын

Cause whites and Asians like to kiss each others asses. And they also have other stuff in common.

@alissa6

4 жыл бұрын

@@makky6239 No

16:12 In fact, GanYing(甘英) did manage to see the King of Kings in Persia as he was welcomed with an elite cavalry parade, even though he wasn't surprised since he has seen many more troops within China. However, the Persians don't want the Chinese to have direct diplomatic relations with the Romans, afraid that these 2 would forge a military alliance for the land of Persia. Thus told him that "DaQin" is beyond his reach...

@Gala-yp8nx

4 жыл бұрын

Hyltonial I I can see why the Parthians were afraid of a Han-Roman alliance. They would have been utterly crushed between them.

@worsethanjoerogan8061

4 жыл бұрын

@@caiawlodarski5339 Yeah I doubt they would have ever made a coordinated military attack on Persia. It was at the very edge of the reach of both empires. They just didn't want them trading directly since they'd lose so much money in taxes

@hyltoniali257

4 жыл бұрын

Dean Cutler Only 1 year after GanYing’s visit, 2nd emperor of SPQR, Trajan attacked the Western border of Pathia & Kushan constantly Harass from the East

@hyltoniali257

4 жыл бұрын

@Saguntum-Iberian-Greek Konstantinopoli Beside the Russians, Alexander and his Macedonian Greeks were the only European ever reach the deep core of Asia

@ShahanshahShahin

4 жыл бұрын

Sadly Persian along with their Zoroastrian religion were eradicated by the Islamic invasion in 632 AD.

What's more impressive is that the Roman and Chinese empire saw each others as equal powers (the other was the mirror of themselves) despite never having a direct diplomatic relationship

40 Days. Less than one and half month and history could have been changed forever.

@lokibau

4 жыл бұрын

cant see how that could have changed history. Still they were too far away for doing anything more complex than indirect trade

@anastasia-fr1gn

4 жыл бұрын

lokibau maybe they would have gotten pasta faster

@bigfenix8272

4 жыл бұрын

It may have advanced history a few centuries faster

@monkeydog8681

4 жыл бұрын

If they made contact. That would've make Parthia very very rich.

@antoniokovac5170

4 жыл бұрын

@@monkeydog8681 or destroy it

Two of the greatest empires to ever exist in their respective areas. Rome: Total War sparked my interest in Roman history a decade and a half ago and this year I was inspired to learn more about the Han Empire and Chinese history by Total War: Three Kingdoms and Kings and Generals. (^_^)

@Bektashi

4 жыл бұрын

@RAJU PEDDADA such an ignorant statement

@ericconnor8251

4 жыл бұрын

@RAJU PEDDADA The Parthians in Persia & Mesopotamia were dark and barbaric? What? LOL. Also, aren't you forgetting India, with the Yuezhi-led Kushan Empire that existed during this time?

@lukezuzga6460

4 жыл бұрын

And was my degree in History that got me playing Total War. That and Officially Devin's Roman British campaign.

@Bektashi

4 жыл бұрын

@@ericconnor8251 exactly Eric some people are just plain stupid

@Bektashi

4 жыл бұрын

@RAJU PEDDADA so Rome and Han China never had any succession problems or civil wars? Was it good to live in Rome under Caligula and Nero and the numerous other terrible Emperors they had?

China 19AD: Find me a trade route to Rome. China 2019AD: So, did you guys finish building the belt & road thing to get a trade route to Europe?

@hwasiaqhan8923

4 жыл бұрын

One Belt one road is a disaster

@arkadeepkundu4729

4 жыл бұрын

@@hwasiaqhan8923 it definitely is. It's like how the Soviets outspent their economy in the 80s

@w8ingsim43

4 жыл бұрын

@@hwasiaqhan8923 It is a disaster if you consider yourself an American.

@w8ingsim43

4 жыл бұрын

@@hwasiaqhan8923 or American's pet dog, that works too.

@user-wr6tc4tw2t

4 жыл бұрын

@@hwasiaqhan8923 oh, salty

Tbh I was sad and frustrated when the diplomat failed to reach Rome

@mathewkanapilly796

3 жыл бұрын

It’s mainly due to either the language barrier, stupid sailors or a combination of both cause I would have told them about the land border and ask to sail them up the river

@jonsong4592

3 жыл бұрын

The Parthians most likely misled them on purpose to continue profiting off being the middleman

@longyu9336

3 жыл бұрын

The man was probably extremely homesick at this point and when the Parthians claimed that Rome was still 2 years away he took it as the best oppertunity to end his mission and return home.

@jonsong4592

3 жыл бұрын

@@longyu9336 Zhang Qian: Pathetic

Really interesting topic!

@sammyms385

4 жыл бұрын

how is your comment 10 hours ago?

@MalayArcher

4 жыл бұрын

Sammy Müller-smith early access

@sammyms385

4 жыл бұрын

@@MalayArcher i didnt even know that was a thing

@anjusanal

4 жыл бұрын

@@sammyms385 only for Patreon and KZread members....unfortunately as I have no money, I cant become a Patron

Zhizhi: GG Zhizhi left the server

@AK-fh4qq

4 жыл бұрын

hahah😂😂

@xXxSkyViperxXx

4 жыл бұрын

its actually not pronounced as GG, kings and generals, as always just butchered the pronunciation. zhizhi is pronounced more like chercher

@martinzhang2226

4 жыл бұрын

I thought he said dick "jiji" and had to do a double take xD

@gonkong5638

3 жыл бұрын

@@xXxSkyViperxXx Good game. LMAO

@TheTommy9898

3 жыл бұрын

@@martinzhang2226 cant stop snickering everytime he says that lol. feel like a little kid again

Many may have covered this topic, but it’s still refreshing to see you cover it also

@seekfactsnotfiction9056

4 жыл бұрын

Have they covered the topic in such an interesting graphic design? If yes please share links

@zxera9702

4 жыл бұрын

I see you everwhere .It seems you like history as well...weeb comrade.

@theodosiusthegreat1283

2 жыл бұрын

dam i see you everywhere it’s cool

Yes, Romans met China at a high school dance. China was hanging out with friends near the water fountain when Romans walked by. Romans inquired about the time, the minutes turned into hours, pigs turned into bacon and they all danced the night away.

I feel the protector general deserve his own faction in a total war game. I mean, his role is very interesting, imaging fighting many unknown civilisations in desert while taking care what happens in emperor's court. Already feel like a good old school hard start position in a total war game.

@oskareriksson2202

Жыл бұрын

In the medieval 2 total war mod rise of the three kingdoms, starting in 194 ad, there are plenty of these governors. Shi xie in northern Vietnam and Yunnan leading a nanyue/han semi indipendent province, the nanman kingdoms, the shanyue, all of yue stock and often commanded by a Chinese/local mixed elite class (like the Roman rump states in the far north in gaul and Britain or the Gallic and palmyrene generals), to the west in the steppe there are the gansu and xiliang factions and to the north a group of both steppe/Chinese factions and Korean/Chinese factions made of local han governors. I play often these factions both in Roman campaigns from 3rd century ad on to the 6th century (invasio barbarorum mod serie for both Rome and medieval) and in Chinese (zanghuo mod for Rome 1 about the warring states period, the yue kingdom is one of the most interesting factions, and rise of the three kingdoms for medieval). I play them to seceed later and create an indipendent kingdom.

The *far* more likely explanation for the "fish scale formation" is a force of Greco-Baktrian mercenary hoplites (or some successor troop type born of that tradition). After all, the Hellenic colonists Alexander settled in the East, and the military traditions they brought with them, were still very much alive and well at this point in history. The lands these colonists inhabited were also a Hell of a lot closer to the area of the battle than Roman lands ever were. I feel like the video should have at least addressed this possibility, rather than just blindly buying into the popular "Li-gien" myth. And if you were going to mention the myth, you could have at least told us what happened to the supposed "Romans" after the battle (i.e. they were taken alive and resettled by the Chinese).

@nealsterling8151

4 жыл бұрын

I thought the same thing. I have seen a video about Alexander these days, where it was stated that many troops where raised in Asia and trained in the Greek way of fighting. But that was around 300 BC.

@twojacksandanace3847

4 жыл бұрын

They said it could have been Roman Mercs, they did not say that they were. It was possible, not certain, take a chill pill man.

@michaelrenper796

4 жыл бұрын

@@nealsterling8151 The Greco Bactrian kingdoms flourished for more than 200 years after Alexander passed away. IN 106BC during the war of the heavenly horses a Chinese army encountered cities which were still culturally very Greek. The Greco Bactrians transformed into the Greco Indians in todays Pakistan (where Greek was a spoken language till at least 100AD when the Kushan arrived and made it their administrative language for a short while). In the North Greek influence subsided but at least some Greek military traditions would have survived in 36BC

Imagine a series about a legion from Rome who somehow ended up as mercenaries in China. That, would be so much fun. Season 1 could follow Caeser, while the latter season could follow another legion during the crisis of third century or maybe even Belisarius

The production quality of that _Han Xin_ series looks good.

@Zujitsu

4 жыл бұрын

Can’t even cast a single actual East Asian...

@hwasiaqhan8923

4 жыл бұрын

Looks ok, but the armours and clothing worn in that documentary is extremely inaccurate, it’s like using Roman armours and clothing doing a documentary on medieval europe.

@Intranetusa

4 жыл бұрын

The weaponry/armor/equipment and the combat looks atrocious though.

I was actually waiting for when you get to post your own piece on this particular topic! You guys never disappoint! 👌💎

Every historian wet dream: Chinese army vs. the Roman Legion

@geraldohassan3828

4 жыл бұрын

Seres delenta est

@charliezhang6820

4 жыл бұрын

The two civilizations are too far away, whoever attack would loose the war.

@Suite_annamite

4 жыл бұрын

*Real historians don't "dream" : only political scientists come up with bs fantasies.*

@jake2663

4 жыл бұрын

@Drago Arbiter Now that's an interesting scenario

@Liveforgamingman

4 жыл бұрын

@@Suite_annamite As a political science student, this hurt a little.

Very interesting. So many mini-docus on this and yet I've never heard these details before! Well done!

I died when I saw the Filthy Frank reference at 2:45. Thank you K&G, I needed that today.

Great video! However, in your next one you should consider talking about the archaeological evidence for Roman contacts in Vietnam, where the Book of Later Han says a Roman "Da Qin" embassy came in 166 AD, albeit most likely just a group of Roman merchants traveling past Burma and Thailand via the Indian Ocean trading network described by Ptolemy in his geography. For that matter, Ptolemy even mapped out the Gulf of Thailand and South China Sea around this time.

@ericconnor8251

4 жыл бұрын

By archaeological evidence I mean items like gold medallion featuring Marcus Aurelius and Antoninus Pius found at the site of Oc Eo, Vietnam, then part of the Kingdom of Champa bordering the Han Empire's province in northern Vietnam, and potentially the site of "Cattigara" described by Ptolemy in his geographical book. The Han Chinese also had Roman glass and gilded Roman silverwares and dishes buried in their tombs, which probably passed on to them via merchants from Persia and India, but reinforces how they were connected to the material world of Rome. Roman coins have also been found in China, a good amount of them, but more so in India where the Romans probably purchased most of their Chinese silk along with Indian spices.

@miaodu1695

3 жыл бұрын

Totally agree. I wish there was a video on the later contacts too. I read a couple of articles that claimed an “embassy” brought with him ivory, rhino horns, tortoiseshells, etc. to the Han people in circa 166 AD (in Antonius Pius’ reign). Presumably there were frequent trades between the two empires later on. It’s still under debate what “Da Qin” means exactly in the Later Han history. It could mean the the eastern area of the Roman Empire, or even Dacia ( the first Dacian War began in 98AD, so technically Dacia was not part of the Roman Empire yet). And I noticed that if your pronounce ‘Dacia’, it sounds like “da qin” in Chinese. Maybe Gan Ying simply reached Dacia in ~ 97AD and thought he actually arrived at the Roman Empire. Historical accounts could rarely be corroborated by archaeological evidence unfortunately, as the latter is so scarce.

Imagine the possibilities of a Sino-Roman alliance. They would have been unstoppable. The first ever world super power.

@Sanghelli

3 жыл бұрын

They would end up clashing.

@jonsong4592

3 жыл бұрын

@@Sanghelli honestly probably not. There is sufficient geographical distance and obstacles between the two to limit conflicts of interest. Romans could never occupy chinese lands and china could never occupy Roman lands. And both would be stretched to bureaucratic limits in terms of the size of their domains before they could ever contest a region.

@Sanghelli

3 жыл бұрын

@@jonsong4592 though modern day Roman and Chinese empires would clash.

@juliannasreddin5226

3 жыл бұрын

Jon Song you're right, but they could be allies (It's much easier than being enemies, and preassure parthia into bancrupcy.

@miguelpereira9859

2 жыл бұрын

There were no logistics at the time that allowed for such an Alliance to take place. If the Romans developed powerful ships like the later european nations tho, maybe a more substancial alliance could have formed, who knows

Amazing video! Great West-East storylines make for even better videos. Good job K&G!

I find theses subjects fascinating, keep them coming K&G !

Man, you guys do a great job. Your videos provide context and include a lot of very obscure details, even the multiple accounts of an event. Don't ever change KnG.

Brilliant! - This subject deserves far more popular attention. I look forward to the next instalment…

@saladcaesar7716

4 жыл бұрын

Dr Raoul McLaughlin hello I just want to say that I like your videos

I'm happy that I'm not the only one frustrated about that envoy not reaching Rome.

@jonsong4592

3 жыл бұрын

well, i guess the golden rule of being a middleman, is to never let your clients meet each other directly.

Good stuff lads. Truly fascinating. And i must say that Han Xin series looks purdy clean.

You never fail to amaze us❤ appreciate your efforts!

It actually hurt a bit seeing that the envoy was so (relatively) close to Roman territory, and then get bamboozled by some sailors. So close, and yet, so far.

Han discovering Rome is just like we discovering aliens

@iSyriux

2 жыл бұрын

Not really, Chinese people have been in contact with white people since at least the first millennium BCE, there was Chinese silk found in Ancient Egypt around 1000 BCE and in Scythian Burial Sites from the Euxine to western Mongolia and more significantly the Han Dynasty became suzerains of the Serican Oasis states who were inhabited by white people

@stayingmadwonthelpyou5402

2 жыл бұрын

@@iSyriux yeah

The quality of the video is superb, I always enjoy a video from your channel.

Keep up with good work, great video

Han Xin: I never lost a battle! Lü Bu: *smiles for the first time.* Finally. Someone that may actually be worth my time.

@Adolphification

4 жыл бұрын

lu bu main proficiency was in brutish strength ..totally different kind with han xin

@ShahanshahShahin

4 жыл бұрын

Han Xin : I never lost a battle! *Alexander the Great* : oh that's sweet

@snowhole2625

4 жыл бұрын

Nishant Duhan Well they’re equals then. But I must mention Alexander’s empire did immediately fracture after his untimely death while Han Xin built one which lasted for 400 years.

@juliannasreddin5226

3 жыл бұрын

snow hole Yeah and greek influence in the middle east is no longer aside from the arabs who translated texts. Han xin built an empire with everlasting influence on the world. Heck an entire ethnic group (one of the biggest in the world, the Han chinese) was named after his empire.

9:00 "GG!" said Zhizhi Chanyu.

@hongdalai2753

4 жыл бұрын

It is just a modern Chinese pronunciation of the Xiongnu chieftain's name 郅支. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhizhi

@hyltoniali257

4 жыл бұрын

hongda lai He means: Got to go

@alvintheng8501

4 жыл бұрын

Zeflute Gothystie LMAO

@alvintheng8501

4 жыл бұрын

hongda lai it’s a sarcastically reply as zhizhi sounds like GG: good game, end of the game

@xXxSkyViperxXx

4 жыл бұрын

it's not even pronounced like GG, this channels just loves to butcher chinese names, zhizhi is pronounced more like chercher

Great video Realy you become better and better I wish you will make the already finished videos again

*WELL NARATED AND DOCUMENTED VIDEO!!*

This video even explained Hou Hanshu which is written in 3 kingdoms periods after west Han and east Han (XI HAN and DONG HAN). This video is amazing!! Everything is elaborated deeply.

Can we get a condottieri video? I always found them fascinating but there's really not much on KZread about them and I'd definitely trust you to do a good job faithfully depicting them and shed a light on them as almost no one knows who they were

I cannot watch videos while I'm at work but I had to quickly go on KZread to like this video after getting a notification for it! Already know this is going to be quality content! Keep it up K&G, you guys make amazing content!

It's sad that he came so far and then turned around and went home. He was only a month from the borders of the Roman Empire!

@nangephriam1211

3 жыл бұрын

Cause he doesn't know he was that near..... unfortunate but i forgive him given the circumstances and that he did his best and daring to go to that far.

I love how the Han Chinese seem to have assumed the Romans would've been great and noble friends, when given what we know of the Romans, they would.. not have been so. Rome doesn't exactly have a history of playing nice with its neighbors and even with its actual allies. After all, the Gauls asked the Romans for help against their enemies... and the Romans sent Caesar.

@operationstratos1013

4 жыл бұрын

Well, every great empire has its own underhand politics.

@KingR3aper

4 жыл бұрын

I think historically China and the people have always been poetically optimistic, despite constant struggle and look forward to the future. This seems pretty much the same today - though many are still in poverty, issues with the government, pollution and climate change - they are currently (according to an IPOS Study funded by Bill & Melinda Gates foundation) the most optimistic towards the future.

@HellbirdIV

4 жыл бұрын

@@iminyourwalls8309 Basically, the existence of the Persian Empires - Parthians, and later Sasanians - kept China and Rome from ever having any ability, let alone reason, to contend with each other in force, but also kept them from being true allies in any sense. I just think that, if Rome and China had shared a border - let's say the Parthian Empire collapsed and Rome and China both moved into its territory - then the Chinese would get an unpleasant surprise with just how antagonistic the Romans could be. It's not just militarism; like the Chinese they saw themselves as superior to other cultures, but unlike the Chinese they saw it as a duty to conquer and control those other cultures, whereas China saw most of its prosperity in isolation.

@yegorperepelytsya7812

4 жыл бұрын

HellbirdIV well ,romans were following their own and only interest , divide and conquer

@someguy3766

4 жыл бұрын

There is no way Rome or China would've waged war on each other. At that time, they were both simply too big and too far away to be attacked. Whatever forces the Romans could possibly get into China after presumably neutralising Parthia first would've achieved nothing, and likely been completely destroyed. The Romans would've gathered extensive intelligence before even contemplating such a daring move and realised the impossibility of waging war on China. The same is true for any Han Emperor considering a move against Rome - too big, too far away, whatever forces could be sent would be annihilated. Since neither empire could pose a threat to the other, the only sensible path for relations they could take would be friendly relations - envoys, trading, an alliance etc. They may have teamed up to destroy Parthia, then cooperated in pacifying the Central Asian warlords while trading directly via the Silk Road. Assuming Parthia was taken out it is _possible_ Rome and China could've fought border skirmishes over territory in Central Asia, but it seems unlikely. These areas were so far away from the central administration of either empire and had little of real value besides defense against a now destroyed Parthia.

They were only 40 days away! Yet were separated by 2 years of travel at the same time. Such a shame. This video covers the same topic done by others. However it focuses on something the others did not really talk about. How China got their information. So amazing and thanks for this additional piece of the puzzle.

What an amazing video!!!! I’ve loved history all my life. Rome in particular! But never have I thought that these two different worlds could meet! And to see that they tired has blown my mind! Well done Kings and Generals! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Amazing video, thank you.

Great Video!

A movie about Gan Ying would be amazing actually.

@xyrocknirmou8699

4 жыл бұрын

True

@thexbriannova

4 жыл бұрын

It's not exactly a movie about Gan Ying, but it's the closest I know that can scratch your itch: Dragon Blade (2015) It's not a great film though... But at least it's something.

The story with the ambassador not realizing that he could have reached Rome by land may be frustrating. But honestly, any hopes of the Han to gain Rome as an ally were unrealistic anyway. The Romans WERE to distant, never managed to overcome the Parthans militarily, the empire was already reaching overstretch and finally, the Roman idea of being an ally was to integrate you into their empire.

as chinese myself i love how u know history so well

The fishscale formation soldiers at the battle of Zhizhi were unlikely to have been Roman soldiers, and were more likely to have been traditional Greek hoplites with their overlapping hoplon shields in a classical phalanx formation. Greco-Persian kingdoms and city states such as Bactria existed in/near the region, and those kingdoms would have continued to use traditional Greek hoplite phalanxes and Macedonian phalangite pike-phalanx formations used by Alexander's armies. And yes, Alexander did bring traditional hoplites into his conquests. Alexander's Hellenistic armies continued to use traditional hoplites with large hoplons in addition to Macedonian phalangite pikemen. The pikemen were only 1/3 of his army. In addition to regular hoplite units in the army, it's believe that the elite Hypaspists units of Alexander's armies were equipped and fought similarly to traditional Greek hoplites.

@omarivanmayorgaalvarado860

Жыл бұрын

Well the chinese also had their own testudo or turtle formation if you think of it is not imposible that two, three, four or whatever number of civilizations from utterly different parts and customs of the World might be able to come up with the same idea i mean we only Know about infantry civilizations such as Romans and greeks, but china had the same idea despite being an Archery military civilization and also the chinese adopted cavalry tactics and doctrine to counter nomadic horsemanship. My point is you cannot tell whether they are romans, greeks or maybe none of them

@Intranetusa

Жыл бұрын

@@omarivanmayorgaalvarado860 Not sure why you're talking about Chinese formations because the people in the records are not Chinese soldiers. The Chinese records specifically state that the Chinese soldiers attacked enemy soldiers who used the fishscale formation. Furthermore, it was called a turtle formation - the texts call it a fish scale formation. Furthermore, my point it is much more likely it was a Greek formation rather than a Roman formation because Greeks actually lived in the region but Romans did not. Alexander of Macedon sent his armies to set up cities and towns in the region of this battle. The Romans did not and were still far from this place.

@omarivanmayorgaalvarado860

Жыл бұрын

@@Intranetusa my point is anyone can come up with the idea of a testudo, turtle, fish or whatever you wanna call that formation the chinese had their own despite not being an infantry civilization unlike the greeks and romans. Another example of the same ideas the romans and the asian steppe People had a proto decimal system in their armies despite having no idea of each other since the beggining. You cannot tell whether this People are romans or greeks by simply clinging into the idea bactria was there and therefore it is more Likely the infantrymen Who the video is talking about are the greeks style phalanx because anyone can think of that formation

@Intranetusa

Жыл бұрын

@@omarivanmayorgaalvarado860 Yeh, shield wall formations were pretty common throughout the world. Yes, we cannot know for sure who these people were. However, there are some popular hypothesis suggesting a Western Eurasian origin. The earlier hypothesis was made by Homer Dobbs saying they could have been Romans...but this has been disproven or shown to be unlikely by recent evidence. The more recent hypothesis that is more credible is that they were actually Greek or Greco-Persians. We know that the Greco-Persian Kingdom of Fergana (which likely had hoplites and shielded pikemen) was located very close to the site of this battle in question. So if they happened to be non-Chinese, non-steppe people, then they could've been the natives who adopted Greco-Persian traditions or maybe Greco-Persian mixed ancestry people themselves.

The Chinese were more seperated, segregated, secluded, isolated, and exiled but at the same time in a lot of areas more advanced when it came to technological terminologies

Dang, first Fire of Learning, then Voices of the Past, Invicta, and then you guys? Some historical fiction author should right a series on a what if scenario, where the Han and Romans finally come into contact.

I liked very much your video. Another vídeos about Rome and China contact will be most welcome. Thanks a lot.

Great stuff

This kind of stories really make my imagination run wild,just imagine the thrill of discovering godly empires,never before seen people,etc

The theory that those people were actual roman prisoners who somehow reclaimed their equipment they lost while being captured on the opposite part of the parthian empire and continued fighting in the roman fashion is just plain ridiculous and silly.

@TheBacknblack92

4 жыл бұрын

More likely is some roman prisoners taught infantry tactics to people in the parthian empire and they taught those tactics to mercenaries. The testudo is very useful when dealing with an enemy that fires a lot of arrows. It's not the craziest thing for empires to take prisoners and incorporate them into their military with their own equipment though.

@thewanderingrey8830

4 жыл бұрын

For one they don't need to reclaim their equipment; they just need to make new ones themselves or tell a good smith to make the equipment in according to their specs. The result maybe an imitation but still an equipment nonetheless. That's how chariot warfare and stirrups spread allover the world.

@JanPospisilArt

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheBacknblack92 Except it's not at all clear that it was the testudo the mercenaries performed. If you read the actual account, the writer is not describing it like some magical unusual thing he's never seen before. It could be ANY kind of shield formation, which were very much a thing among the Chinese, or the local people. There is no evidence whatsoever that this had anything to do with the Romans. The far more likely explanation is that they were Kangju or Dayuan mercenaries.

@weirdofromhalo

4 жыл бұрын

@@JanPospisilArt Far more likely is a hoplite formation.

@JanPospisilArt

4 жыл бұрын

@@weirdofromhalo Hoplites around 30. BC? Doubtful. Phalanxes of Hellenistic armies at this time were made of pikemen, not hoplites. There were soldiers bearing large shields that perhaps served a similar purpose, like the thureophoroi. A Hellenized local unit is a possibility, yes. But hoplites as in Greek soldiers carrying an aspis, not really.

6:18 Just 2 years ago, Archaeologist found a Bamboo book in KHOTAN, which is the earliest chinese elementary book( I read the same article when I in middle school). It's an amazing feeling when I realize there were a boy are forced by his parents to recite the whole book like me in 2000years ago .

Very enjoyable video.

I wish someone would add a mod that creates a Roman expedition faction to the Three Kingdoms Total War so that I could finally live out my dream Rome-China bromance

This would make for a fascinating alternative history!

@eden6056

2 жыл бұрын

Yup , but unfortunately , even if China and Rome made contacts , not much would be done as China after that period was gradually internally weak and would plunge into civil War around two centuries later , which lead to the Three Kingdoms period. What's a main difference between China and Rome is that in Rome , ruling families could be easily changed and for China , a family ruled over the Empire or Kingdom and if that family is overthrown , it's signifies the end of the Nation. So usually successful coups in China would lead to a change in the nation , much unlike Rome

Fascinating!🤔👍❗

The Parthians not only risked to loose money as middlemen, they must have realized that if CHina and Rome ever formed a military alliance, they could have destroyed Parthia and perhaps quite easily. I can imagine that the Parthians kings sent spies and were regularly informed about the actions of the Chinese diplomatic mission trying to find Rome.

The theory put forth about the Romans helping the Xiongnu is problematic to say the least. A “fish scale” formation is not an accurate description of a Roman testudo, in fact, such a close knit formation of shields next to one another might have been common place in most ancient armies. A “fish scale” formation, where shields actually overlap, is more descriptive of Greek phalanx formations which, if there was a western influence, were far more likely. The Greco-Bactrian and Indo-Greek Kingdoms were around during the Battle of Zhi Zhi and likely had a vested interest in the trade network of Central Asia. Recent scholarship has thrown Dubs’ argument into question. The location of “Crassus Legion” in this region of Central Asia is unlikely because, quite simply, the Parthian Empire did not extend out that far and there was a long distance between the Parthian Domain and the place of the battle. Furthermore, there is an almost 20 year gap between the battle of Carrhae and Zhi Zhi, assuming the youngest soldiers joined at 16. We are talking about soldiers ranging from 35 to 60, not the ideal age for warriors at this time, especially if the life expectancy was 40 in Rome. Peoples from the Hellenistic expansion into this area of the world were closer to the action, were likely to have a local interest (whether it be polity related or just mercenary work), could provide soldiers of fighting age, and there is overwhelming evidence that Greek/Macedonian culture was passed down for several centuries after Alexander the Great and his successor Greek Kingdoms in this region of the world. Dr. Christopher Anthony Matthew has produced scholarship on this possibility. When is most interesting about this possibility is that it gives us a view into this little known history where the descendants of Alexander’s army could have found economic success by acting as mercenaries for this region of Asia and had a more symbiotic relationship with the political and economic affairs of the early Silk Road. This is something that King’s and Generals should look into and do a video on.

Amazing 🙂

Thanks for doing this story about the Romans helping in the Chinese wars, I remember reading about this years ago and simply forgot 😁👍

If only the map of Rome II reached all the way to China. It would've been so awesome!!! Interesting video

@enesakhan4032

4 жыл бұрын

on that time mapping was a hard think to do and it was pretty expensive so its probably impossible to get a map from a far unknown land .. and i think for Han dynasty they probably didnt even know a land beyon partian lands existed ofc same goes for Rome as well

@barbiquearea

4 жыл бұрын

@@enesakhan4032 The mapping shouldn't be a problem. It would be huge no doubt but if Europa Universalis IV can pull it off so can CA. Although gameplay wise it would be a logistical nightmare and probably would use up a ton of data and be super laggey.

@hwasiaqhan8923

4 жыл бұрын

Pierre S. That would awesome but you’d also have to wait 10 minutes for each end turn to finish lol

@AngryHistorian87

4 жыл бұрын

@@hwasiaqhan8923 Mmmm. Good point

By honest, the original context really meant frank, or candid, comparing to restrained /veiled confucian value. Just similar interpretations on one Chinese charater（直：literally straight）.

As far as i know there was a diplomatic mission of the roman Imperator Marcus Aurelius, which successfully came to the Han Empire and trades amongs other things horses. But was not followed by further contacts, cause of the soon to be end of the eastern Han Dynasty and the trouble the romans had to face during their late 10th and early 11th century AUC.

great video as always ... bdw i got a question do you plan to cover sea battles of the WW2 in the near future in this or Cold War channel? like Wolf Pack tactics , Bismark's mission and like Battle of Guedalcanal ?

Ganying:OK,now I 'm going to Rome Pathian:you guys,Rome is very far.you must coast 1 year to Rome Ganying:oh my god,too far i have to report to the emperor. Roma:? in fact Ganying was near to the Antioch But Pathian were lie to his.

When you're between 2 resource centres, you'd try to monopolise trade and the trade routes in between. Arab traders profited for centuries controlling the trade between East and west. Preventing Chinese communication from Rome was probably a good political play by the parthians.

The tetsudo formation might have been the descendants of the greeks phalanx that were there 2-3 centuries ago

I just took a very rough measurement of distance: from Xi'an (Chang'an) to the tip of Persian Gulf is roughly 5,500km. from Roma to the same spot is roughly 4,000km. Both are land routes. Indeed too great a distance between the two. It's about a 20-30 day drive by car. Hard to imagine how they manage to go so far 2,000 years ago.

@jrbb1837

4 жыл бұрын

They didn't start from Xi'an. They started from Tarim Basin

@lyhthegreat

2 жыл бұрын

@@jrbb1837 but if the news of their meeting were to travel to the chinese emperor, then the messenger would have to travel that distance too

@JKMT

2 жыл бұрын

@@lyhthegreat probably took years to be there, imagining how our history will be 500 years later how titan and earth met.

The silk road connects the two major countries.

Top 10 Anime Crossovers that Need to Happen

15:00 We don't know how close we are to our Goals, so moral of the story is NEVER GIVE UP!

@eagleguy7

4 жыл бұрын

We can all, metaphorically, find our Dai Chi.

@alvintheng8501

4 жыл бұрын

Clyde D'souza is your purse contain none ending of gold coin, definitely you can make the journey

Honestly even if those diplomats had reached Rome, it's hard to imagine anything massive coming out of it. That Chinese guy was right - Rome was too far away to substantially help China in Central Asia and China was too far away to assist Rome. With the time it took to cross the distance, I doubt they could have even co-ordinated actions against the Parthians in between them.

Great video and extremely interesting world History! Amazing to thing how close the Han/Roman connection came. No one would sell the Han delegation a good map?!?

I see nurrik and Phoenix I hit like. I like officially Devin also.

@lukezuzga6460

4 жыл бұрын

I have said Devin reading a phone book would be entertaining!

Wow! So close yet so Far away, One could just imagine of what could have been.

You know, I always wondered about the Chinese point of view of India; how do you think they viewed each other?

mfw i realize you guys are using the "the duel of fate" soundtrack from total war 3 kingdoms : D

Voices of the Past, amazing trendsetter :33

@ericconnor8251

4 жыл бұрын

Followed up by Invicta, of course.

@ibnyahud

4 жыл бұрын

@@ericconnor8251 they didn't cover it, but check out BazBattles and HistoryMarche as well, two excellent YT history channels with graphics and similar presentation styles

Contact between both is rather indirect most of the time though. I always visualize it being more romantic, dramatic and epic. Like an epic clash between two juggernaut empires where there is no easy victor. Like sassanids and eastern rome wars. You never know who’s going to win in the end or someone else wins instead. Reality is quite different though i admit.

@althesian9741

4 жыл бұрын

Narrow ETT Yeah i understand that geographically they wouldn’t realistically go to war. I’m just hypothesizing if they were close to one another in terms of borders. And if war does break out, how will it play out

Hi K&G! I would like to ask whether or not you have any plans of covering the Boshin war or the Satsuma rebellion any time in the future. It's not covered on YT very well despite being a pivotal event in Japanese history.

@KingsandGenerals

4 жыл бұрын

Yep, down the line!

I knew that the Chinese were reasonably aware that the Romans existed. I wonder what if the Chinese had been allowed to make contact with the Roman's. What could have been achieved from such relations with them. Heaven only knows. Get what I mean. My thanks to those who made this video a reality.

@emadguy8033

3 жыл бұрын

we may never know but possibly in a another universe

Imagine what would have happened if the Han Empire had made contact with the Romans.

@user-bm4hx2go5j

4 жыл бұрын

All East Asian girls will marry Roman pedo warriors

@grzegorzbrzeczyszczykiewic6379

4 жыл бұрын

Nothing interesting would've happened.

@lewistaylor2858

4 жыл бұрын

@MEXICO CITY BEAST yep no Arab conquests either, I suspect Rome would have lasted indefinitely in the west...

@alvintheng8501

4 жыл бұрын

If they 2 met, Rome will never fall. Send a help letter to the Han court, thousands of ox bagged with silk, grain, cattle, weapon will be on the way.

@georgepatton1490

4 жыл бұрын

Rome will not fall and Islam and Christianity will not exist

We need a movie about those Roman survivors of Carrhae that ended up escaping and fighting the Chinese as mercenaries on the edge of the known world

Super LIKE!!!!!

Feels like a 'did rome meet china' video has been recommended to me for 9000 times this past year

Imagine Sino-Roman culture.

Do Maccabi Revolt Also

It would be awesome if we had a what if scenario or something