Yes, there are such studies. Metallographic examinations of the roman republican weapons from the hoard from grad near smihel by Jana Horvat. Here is a quote from page 297. Pila P3720 "Despite corrosion damage it can be seen that the microstructure of the surface layer was pearlite (0.7%C)." "The sharp boundary between the totally pearlite and ferrite microstructure indicates that the point of the pilum was *forge welded from hard steel on the surface and a soft core."* "The microstructure of the sample cut from the shaft is mostly ferrite, and only a small amount of perlite is present in individual bands in the center." Page 299 "The average microhardness of the steel with the ferrite microstructure is 88 HV. The quite pearlite area on the surface of the point is harder, the greatest value measured is 135 HV." Page 304 "The surface of the point of the pilum is badly damaged by corrosion, although the pearlite microstructure on the surface and the sharp transition to the ferrite region in the core indicate that the pilum point P 3720 was forge welded of hard and soft steel. Hard steel with a high carbon content is less resistant to corrosion, and thus the surface of the weapon was more damaged by corrosion." That explains why it was soft (135 HV is relatively soft) There you have it.

@CerealNumb

2 ай бұрын

This here is an excellent reply. Good pick.

@theeddorian

Ай бұрын

Thanks. I was going to ask about this. As an archaeologist, I would have considered such investigation a matter of course.

He couldn't contain his laugh in the intro, love it xD

Pila variety was probably adapted in the field to the shield and armor styles of their enemies at a given time. Those village like camps weren't just for sleeping.

@arnijulian6241

2 ай бұрын

Rome had auxiliaries & legions from all over the Mediterranean & west Europe spanning empire so the variety in just Pila alone was more so caused by local fauna & available craftsmen. Wood is an organic inhomogeneous material so even working with the same species of wood varies as well the method of treatment that other species make matters more confusing. Even Iron is not all the same for the type of fuel & ore changes matters. I'm sure commanders to soldier had their personal pretences & bias so would pay or request modest alterations to better suit them. Ask a dozen men what the best knife is & they will most likely all jump to a different conclusion for the most part though some overlap may occur. Any weapon a soldier would tweak to their preference before industrial standardization which soldier still try to disobey. Command likes everything the same in order while the troops under stand what is good for 1 is not good for all. I see it as a balancing act personally just as my father & his did as active combat officer being 1st sergeants for the most part. A good commander most set boundaries but if they are to ridged then nothing gets done as troops have no leeway. Command wants order above all but that does not exist for you should find order in the Chaos because the world does not bend to anyone's whims!

Just stumbled across 12 months or so of weird KZread drama I was completely unaware of. You are awesome Matt, had absolutely no reason to doubt you at all but reading and watching some distressing stuff over the past day or two you stand out as a shining beacon of wisdom. Keep on keeping on, thanks for being wonderful even beyond telling me how to jab people with the pointy bit.

Stillsurprises me that it wasn't all that long ago that steel was so expensive and rare that it was worth the trouble of forge-welding small pieces of it onto things made of wrought iron

@dadegroot

2 ай бұрын

and now, wrought iron is more expensive than steel in a lot of cases.

I playtested lex arcana an italian rpg set in the roman empire and helped with the english books. This is such a fun topic to someone like me who digs into roman history on a regular basis.

Always great when Will makes an appearance! 👍👍

Will is the man 😊such skill,loved Asterix too bits ,never wanted to be a roman nor a cowboy when we played 🤔

Carburization of the tip is one option. Forge-welding is another option. Using high-sulphur wrought iron that was then cold-worked is another option. There are options.

One of the issues is the "bend" seems to be a misunderstanding; the shank will bend sometimes, but it isn't the point. The point is, if it hits a shield and goes through, one of the pins bends VERY slightly, or both. The shank then becomes lose in its socket. Not so lose it can't be used again, but loose enough that if it is is used again it won't have the accuracy, range, or penetrative power, because the shank will be misaligned from the shaft by even just a degree or two. They don't "rifle" as you throw them, so that slightly lose pin means (if it hasn't bent at the shank, and can be used again) it is at LEAST significantly less impactful because they are not completely straight. All you need is a tiny offset, and they become drastically less effective. Then, when the battle is over, you replace a single pin, maybe both, and peen the new pin back into place. If it bent and is stuck in the enemy shield? Cool. If it didn't bend, but is stuck through a shield and arm? Great. If it doesn't get stuck, but can't be thrown back with the efficiency it was first thrown with? Fantastic. Battle is all about getting tiny edge on tiny edge, and if 15% of them can't be thrown back because of a softer metal for the pin than the head? Absolutely worth doing.

I like showing people my pilum as well. Great conversation starter.

Since no one really had iron or steel plate armor back then, I think the hardness of the point wasn't really a concern. The shape, even with a soft point, was great for penetrating mail armor and that was probably what the Romans were concerned with. I guess there was Lorica Segmentata, but it was pretty much only other Romans who had that and even then it was less common than mail.

@lscibor

2 ай бұрын

Scale armor and similar stuffs were also extremely prevalent still, even though since it was introduced by Celts and Romans themselves, mail started to displace scale in general. Lammellar was also in use at the eastern outskirts of Roman world, by Parthians, for example. Also, we don't really have any idea if Segmentata was less common than mail, it might have easily been the other way around, at some point. Against some of the heavier mail used in the period, too soft of a point might have easily been a concern point getting rolled could ruin any hope of penetration. In the end though, vast majority of potential pilum targets would likely be completely unarmored though, no matter of their ethnicity, so it's worth keeping in mind. Potential penetration of shields would be main concern then.

Sounds like a cool project. Looking forward to it. Cheers!

Great project! My only complaint is that pila had been around for a long time; from half to a full millunnium, depending on how broad your definition is. You need to narrow down to a more precise time frame in order to collect usable data.

What a great project idea!

Maybe include some footage of will making one of the heads. He talk us through the process in a voice over.

I have no experience with pila, but I very much look forward to seeing what you come up with, cheers!

I would be interested in the different types and construction as it related to mass production in period.

Thanks for another good video

I have nothing to add but this sounds interesting. I can't wait to see the testing with the new tips.

Love it! One of the first thousand to see this.

Would love to see pilum vs soliferum vs javelin comparison...

What about case hardening the tip?

@KuK137

2 ай бұрын

I think soft iron can't be hardened, not with technology of the day (or making it very brittle). You need steel or modern techniques/additives to do that...

@forrestsecord7743

2 ай бұрын

I don't know how old the technology is, if you heat metal in a container of bone meal , the nitrogen in the bone will nitride the surface of the iron, thus case hardening the metal. ... Only a thought.

@Master...deBater

2 ай бұрын

@@forrestsecord7743 Great idea!!!

Wouldn't they have done case-hardening (carburizing)? I know they had that in-period (invented around 1400bce) although I don't know if they used it on pilum.

@Master...deBater

2 ай бұрын

Great idea!!!

I'm no expert, just a Roman history nerd. The way I have come to understand the Pilum is as a way to stop a charging enemy army. When an enemy is charging at full speed, a volley of pila would have been thrown when they were maybe 20 feet away from the Roman lines. The enemy warriors who got hit would have fallen to the ground, causing others around and behind them to stumble, who then also cause others to stumble, etc, effectively breaking the charge's momentum, causing chaos in the army and giving a clean opening for the Roman soldiers to start walking towards them and get to business in relative safety.

@hjorturerlend

2 ай бұрын

This goes both ways tho. The Romans were generally the ones charging and most of their foes also used javelins in the charge, including the pilum or equivalents like the soliferrum.

I would be defo interested. Please proceed!

​Please please please could you do a video on the sword that the Jem'Hadar use in Star Trek Deep Space 9? It's called the Kar'takin. It's very interesting, it's like a sword on the end of a stick. It's almost like if you turned a tennis racket into a sharp bladed weapon. It looks very cool, anne frankly it looks a lot more useful and intuitive a weapon than the bat'leth. I don't know enough about the history of real life swords to know if the Kar'takin has some kind of real life analogue, but there's probably some kind of Asian sword that looks similar and is used in the same way. I guess the closest thing to it would be something like Chinese hook swords, but I don't know, you know so much more than me, obviously, that's why I love your videos. You're the expert, not me.

Hi Matt, could you talk about Simon de Frias's saber manual? He's a fencing master from the late 18th and early 19th centuries who lived in what is now Mexico City. I know there isn't a lot of information about him but I'd love to see your opinion of his work.

Asterix doesn't need any weapons he just needs a sip of magic potion

@yobgodababua1862

2 ай бұрын

To be fair he frequently used a short sword. Obelix doesn't need a sword, a sip of potion, OR a pilum.

Awesome.

Would be nice to see it compared to the original and more universal Etruscan socketed pilum with barbed or bladed heads.

Not directly relevant but there is an exhibition about Roman soldiers at the British Museum on right now that's mainly aimed at a younger audience.

What of carburization of the head (i.e. case hardening)?

How about this for an idea ball and chain and sickle v sword seen it done very effective ,could it be the best sword counter ?

The iron and steel makers sense

Asterix? Granted it has been quite a few years since I read those but can't recall ever seeing any Pilum in it, all I remember seeing was pretty much every single legionary carrying a Hasta.

looks like something Queequeg might be chucking about.

Couldn't you just case harden the point?

if you are doing a modern recreation, having steel tips that just screw on to a threaded iron rod would be the easiest thing for repeatable tests.

I came for the pilum, and stayed for the Gaul.

Ceaser said that the pilum penetrated two overlapped shield than it band on the impact

Are you saying that the legionnaires in Asterix aren't historically correct? 😄

@TeutonicEmperor1198

2 ай бұрын

they wore futuristic kit a century prior to the invention of lorica segmentata. Also the Colosseum exists in some chapters even though it was built 120 years after the comics and the Egyptians looked like 2000 years old fashioned. But who cares? Asterisk was awesome!!

@EriktheRed2023

2 ай бұрын

@@TeutonicEmperor1198 And their pila specifically are full length spears.

@TeutonicEmperor1198

2 ай бұрын

@@EriktheRed2023 they weren't terribly long, 2 meters the most. I guess if the Romans in Asterisk knew how to use their pila the Gaulish village would have fallen regardless of the magic potion

As always great video but I have a question. Where do you find such wonderful toys? Have a good day and a drink for me

Tool steel is very hard, could use old lathe cutters

@johnfisk811

2 ай бұрын

Not in Roman times though.

I’m wandering - was pilum used by Roman legion as somme type of spear to fend off cavalery charge ? Is any record of pila used in this manner ? I belive it had a better reach than the gladius.

@hjorturerlend

2 ай бұрын

Yes, tho cavalry tended to operate on the flanks in this period so rarely.

@ArmouredProductions

2 ай бұрын

Yes there is some documented instances of this occuring. Such as during the Siege of Alesia.

@robo5013

2 ай бұрын

At the battle of Pharsalus Pompey's cavalry greatly outnumbered Caesar's so Caesar collected a picked force of men and had them form up behind his right flank, his left was anchored on a river and the enemy cavalry was massed on his right. He instructed those men to wait behind the men in the front until the cavalry charged then to attack them with their pila by stabbing at their faces.

@arnijulian6241

2 ай бұрын

Hasta is the spear you are looking for as they are usually 8 feet but some become shy of 11 feet which were carried by Hastati prior to the Legions used Hasta before the adoption the gladius & so forth but Hasta was used in mid Rome rather then early Rome by the Camillan which mad up a portion of legion that is unknown. By Late Romans used Tribulus=caltrops for a long time & since horse shoes did not exist yet Caltrops could lame & act as a wall against cavalry if deployed by all roman that legionnaires that carried them in a pouch. If the Caltrops were not enough the Pilum were javelins & still acceptable to stop most cavalry charges if need be. The last true unit to use the Hasta are the Triarii=Old wealthy veteran in full tip top armour of the time as they were not spry enough to throw javelins but they had experience & were drilled to near or after retirement so 16 to coming up 20 or more if serving after retirement. These veterans were not front line troops acting as moral & guidance with more a back seat role for they saw off cavalry if needed though really just encouraged the young to get stuck in. If Grandpa can face down a charging horse then why can't you face down a man? Elders working on the youth pride though they were in less harm but not non. Pikes & large spears only make sense with firearms like in the era of Pike & shot or just prior with mass archer infantry in the high middle ages or ancient Greece's Phalanx's. Technology shifts make what once work not work & as technology changes what worked prior can be updated to work. Nothing is static in war but that war never ends & will occur!

(Sigh) I must be getting old, I saw Matts pila and realised I had a soft tip and got pilum envy!

Well the first obvious question is about the "wax" peg.

It would be apparent in looking at an original if it was iron with a steel tip forge welded on.

@MedievalArrows

2 ай бұрын

You'd think so! But often they need xrays before you can tell there's even 2 parts, let alone what they're made of. Many late medieval arrowheads were thought to be one piece until xrays showed the weld line between iron socket and steel barbs.

🗿👍

Most important is how deep the shaft can penetrate

@ralfrude3532

2 ай бұрын

The tip creates the path, the shaft transfers the momentum.

@allmachtsdaggl5109

2 ай бұрын

@@ralfrude3532 *click* Nice!

I like it, but not great against zombies

I think the classic explanation of bending through shields is wrong as an explanation of the Pilum's design. A MUCH more fundamental and likely explanation exists. Pilum bend after they're thrown simply to prevent them being thrown back effectively. With two lines of skirmishers, one side throwing regular javalins, and the other Pilum, Only the side that threw the Pilum have a free "second shot" to throw them back.

If YOU'RE having issues with your pilum, please make sure you consult your doctor (of history)! 🤣

Matt you have Spiculum that replaced the Pilum as well in later Rome but along side the Pilum & Pilum you had the Telum as a sort of cross Dart-javelin being sort of like a big Plumbata. You also had the Soliferrum=singularly iron-only iron later called Saunion which is an all Iron javelin spear that was about 4 to just over 6 & 1/2 foot which was mainly an Iberian & Aquitanian weapon of auxiliaries from the region that the weapon was incorporated into Rome as these are all heavy javelins for direct engagement. Light Skirmish javelins included Verutum of the Velites which are about 3 feet to 44inches long so rather short compared to the aboce mentioned javelins for a very different purpose of punch over distance. Long 8 foot Hasta spears are not javelins though nothing stops you from throwing it which would be unadvisable for I doubt it could be thrown to any meaningful distance. Plumbata previously are another matter as hand darts. Matt, De re militari by Flavius Vegetius Renatus covers Roman weaponry as the only intact complete Roman military treatise. You can read the other few remaining earlier works but they are a real mismatch with little present.

@arnijulian6241

2 ай бұрын

You can read various General commentaries & such but they cover more the events of battles in wars with background politics as well as logistics rather then training or armaments. The Art of War and Strategemata from the Engineer Sextus Julius Frontinus are lost to the march of time & was likely the most complete works concerning arms production & use by the Romans. I would give most anything to find a copy of either writings. Vindolanda tablets found at Hadrian's wall contains insights into the daily life's of Auxiliary troops but the Roman over all did not write much that survives on arms & armour funnily.

Stop waving that pilum around in Will's face...

But did you see obelix?

Couldn't you just case harden the tip?

Please do a video on this kzread.infoUgkxCPUbFX5AKUq2o2V2XH92EkfZUXxeRQOB how to fight oponits of different sizes to you fighting on your back how would you fight in inclosed space like a ship or a house. one on if a morning star turned into a flail.. If 2 bladed sword had 1 blade (same handle how dose it change fighting) and a baionet for a crossbow, mabey it could dig like a shovel if you put it on the foot rest all of the different types of pomnels or mabey dress in a traditional lady's dress or formal clothes, or uniforms like the inperials fom star wars, and see how restricted it is in combat... one on paudrines (sorry for spelling) one on lorica musculata, the roman armor of generals and other leaders, how would combat be effected by water? (like fighting in or under water) how to fight animals (with your skill set, how would it be aproched traditionally) some videos on Egyptian wepons or Babylon, persan, sumerion, ect from pre hellenistic, mabey even Korean wepons, or wepons from Thailand, veitnam, a some Chinese, Australia, Pacific countries (including aotroa) (please learn the pronounceations)

Is it just me or is the tip of that thing just a bit close to Wills face!

Pelim= latin for penis(penus, penum, pelum)

Hi Mr Easton! Ther is a channel named "Imperium Romanum" "Imperium Romanum; three friends dedicated to bringing history alive in a way you've never seen before! We produce in-depth documentaries about everything ancient Rome, from the army and militairy equipment to politics, religion, culture, life-style and much more. Our videos focus especially on really getting to know the ancient people and the world they lived in. Above all, we distinguish ourselves by using live-action footage of historically-dressed actors in a thematic authentic setting, to add a whole new level of immersion to ancient history! " They look to know many things abaut ancient Rome.

I thought Romans only have Wrought iron back then. The very process of making steel wasn't know until recently.

@scholagladiatoria

2 ай бұрын

No, the Romans were making steel and steel was being produced ever since. Steel is just iron with a tiny bit of carbon. What you might be thinking of is the modern Bessemer process, but people have been making steel through more traditional methods since the Iron Age.

@tommeakin1732

2 ай бұрын

I looked up "steel" (any other Germanic cognate would do too) and "acciaio" (Italian for steel, but any romance cognate would do), and interestingly, it sounds like the romance root word is newer than the Germanic root word. Late Latin "aciarium" (steel) comes from earlier Latin "acies" (“sharp point”). Proto-Germanic (very roughly around the time of the earlier Latin) *stahla (steel) is from *stah or *stag (“to be firm, rigid”). I don't know if this says something about a timeline, or if there were other words for steel in latin that I can't find

@arnijulian6241

2 ай бұрын

Noric Steel existed in Europe since before 400 BC in what the Romans called Noricum. The Roman would conquer that reqgion through bartered for steel using greater numbers with superior tactics & strategy. Noricum was one of the quickest embraced & absorbed regions into Rome as they wanted that technology which is why the Romans were far more Lenient eastern Celtic people in occupation.

That looks like it would do you. Pointy.

Every man needs some help with his pilum from time to time lol