"Gil-galad was an Elven King, Of him the harpers sadly sing The last whose lies were great and strong; A double agent all along. His tales were tall, his guile was keen, His lying smirk afar was seen, The countless sins of Morgoth's craft Were mirrored in this King so daft. But long ago, he was not so; And where he changéd some do know For into darkness fell his star In Amazon where the shadows are."

@manfredlietz7846

Жыл бұрын

👍

@jorislemoine1488

Жыл бұрын

The Lay of Gil-Galad the squint-eyed

@Count.Saruman

Жыл бұрын

@@jorislemoine1488 I just call it "[The Fall of {The Fall of (Gil-Galad)}]"

@nehrigen

Жыл бұрын

that took more skill than all the writers of RoP have.

@thehoneybunempress1664

Жыл бұрын

This is gold

Arondir was the most Elven Elf in the show. His apology to the tree genuinely got me. The actor understood the physical and mental presence of Elves even if the production around him did not.

I have to thank showrunner Mckay. My sister is in a coma, and has been for 3 years. I turned on Rings of Power and she literally woke up, walked to the tv, turned it off, and went back to bed then fell back into a coma. I am hoping season 2 can get her up again.

@Thomas.Wright

Жыл бұрын

Play her some She-Hulk; see what that does.

@gpcovenant

Жыл бұрын

This is a epic comment. Tip of the hat sit.

@liamoneill5863

Жыл бұрын

Brilliant lmao

@SeverinoCatule

Жыл бұрын

This copy pasta never gets old

@thehammer4607

Жыл бұрын

It’s so bad though this is actually plausible

"There never was much hope," he answered. "Just a fool's hope" "I wish it need not have happened in my time,” “So do I,” “and so do all who live to see such times".

I think the Harfoots would have been a really neat idea if they hinted at their existence for like 10-20 seconds of screen time in the final season and then never explored them

@faustoutloud

Жыл бұрын

Yea just show the first scene of the Harfoots popping out of the grass then go back into hiding would have made them very interesting.

@skylanh4319

Жыл бұрын

But then I would never had the chance to hear such wonderful hit songs like “nobody goes off trail”.

@iangraham9050

Жыл бұрын

Harfoots had not populated that area of ME at the time it is set in. They were ALL really short (Lenny Henry is over 6’ tall) and they were ALL ‘brown of skin’ as Tolkien described them. We need to wait several centuries before the hobbits actually appear.

Idk what's more irritating: the showrunners making excuses for failing to deliver a satisfying product or the disingenuous argument "well pj made changes too!" Yes, he did. Minor ones. He didn't throw the entire lore into the woodchipper and tried to use the pieces left to completely rewrite the story, which is what rop is doing. My goodness no one is expecting a 100% word for word adaptation.

@Thomas.Wright

Жыл бұрын

100% agree! What's more, there's a reason why I give his LOTR 9/10, but his The Hobbit a 4/10, and it has to do with there being TOO MANY things added to the latter. So what should I give a show that is entirely unrecognizable to its source material?

@Alexs.2599

Жыл бұрын

Yeah the whole 'Peter Jackson changed things' has become a strawman argument to justify the massive changes from the lore with this series.

@underscore_nick1344

Жыл бұрын

@@Thomas.Wright i heard somewhere that the hobbit trilogy was supposed to be a single maybe 2 movies but Warner Bros wanted to really milk the movies. So i think PJ was kind of forced to make changes to it

@jacobfisher-tb7nb

Ай бұрын

Claiming that Peter Jackson made only minor changes is wild.

I rewatched Amazon's wheel of time after rings of power and I can safely say it made the wheel of time writer's look genius.

@denglongfist4270

Жыл бұрын

From the beginning, I thought Wheel of Time at least have a semblance of structure, even if the show went off the rails after episode 3. As irritated as I was on Dec 25th, it was more entertaining for me than RoP.

@MobbJacket88

Жыл бұрын

Well let's not get ahead of ourselves lol. But yeah, I think you're right. They actually made a worse written show. It's almost impressive.

@MisterEnsayne

Жыл бұрын

Rings of Power actually made me give WoT another chance haha

@danhenley9495

Жыл бұрын

Half of episode 8 the battle in Tarwin's Gap was not good: the fake deaths, the inconsistent level of the one power and Perrin's lack of development. I had high hopes after episode 7. Maybe they can salvage the series with a strong season 2. I hope Amazon has a thick skin and doesn't engage inflexible haters.

@wKFaded

Жыл бұрын

Yep at least that show makes some sense and there's a plot. All ROP is one big mystery box with bad writing and acting.

Galadriel being Sauron's queen feels like they're trying to do a reprise of how Lúthien sang and danced for Morgoth to put him to sleep. "Then Morgoth looking upon her beauty conceived in his thought an evil lust, and a design more dark than any that had yet come into his heart since he fled from Valinor." Except, in Lúthien was the one controlling Morgoth (a Valar!), instead of the other way around.

@Sammo212

Жыл бұрын

The fact it felt like they got all their Legendarium knowledge second hand from someone reading a wiki I can see this happening lol

@veliceligt02

Жыл бұрын

She would be twerking for Morgoth if Amazon writes it.

@skylanh4319

Жыл бұрын

They just wanted everything to be tied to her. Literally every point and storyline revolves around her.

@Yavanna.K

Күн бұрын

I haven't seen the wretched show, but with Beren and Luthien, Luthien was working against Morgoth. Here it seems like Galadriel was falling in love with Sauron or at least grew fond of him.

Thank you for not just selling out like plenty of others have shilling for Amazon. Part of why MotW is the best Tolkien related and lore channel. You have certainly retained your integrity. Peace.

This is just too sad. Tolkien has a treasure trove full of pure literary gold. Can you imagine a whole season just for Beren and Luthien. A whole season for Turin and the Dragon, maybe another one for Tuor and his journey and the fall of Gondolin A whole season just for the history of Numenor and the Akallabeth...

@purefoldnz3070

Жыл бұрын

exactly an anthology series would have been incredible.

@cynreiusacari3163

Жыл бұрын

I believe many of us were hoping for that but they blew it.

@johns1625

Жыл бұрын

I would love nothing more than a Silmarillion show with one whole season dedicated to each story, ending with the Voyage of Earendil and the War of Wrath, Melkor thrown into the void beyond the door of night and Sauron screwing up his one and only chance for redemption. Finally sweet justice for all that suffering and it all happens so fast.

@tatuira93

Жыл бұрын

I would donate plasma on the daily if it meant we could have the tale of Túrin Turambar on screen produced by competent and passionate artists and producers.

@MrJdc30

Жыл бұрын

Perfectly stated.

The way you have composed yourself throughout this tragedy and kept a positive mindset. Truly inspiring and keep the high ground!

It was a mistake for Amazon to create a series based on the Second Age. Not enough people know of the second age. In my opinion Amazon should pick the Battle of Dale during the War of the Ring. Could have started at Gollum's escape and ended with the defeat of the Easterlings when the ring was destroyed. Could have brought back some familiar faces from the Hobbit and with a few liberties, bring in Radagast. Imagine, battles with dwarves and men at Dale fighting easterlings and elves fighting off orcs invading the woodland realm. Maybe even an early scene where the mouth of sauron approaches erebor looking hobbits and the shire. You could easily get 6 or 8 episodes.

There are a lot of “illogical” things that happened in this series, 100%. Also, the numenorean scale armour literally looks like plastic. I enjoyed the cinematic side of it. I feel like I probably won’t rewatch this, I felt like yelling at the tv at the sheer stupidity of the characters a few times.

@kwjan

Жыл бұрын

Maybe the numenoreans bought their armor in Amazon, lol!

Thanks, Yoystan, for the FAIR and HONEST review. This show is getting plenty of negative criticism, and I believe it deserves every bit of it. But with your reviews, the show's defenders cannot honestly say that all those negative reviews are just driving by blind hate. Not that they don't try to claim it anyway (looking at you Gonzalo Mendes). But stand fast, Men of the West!

@plixypl0x

Жыл бұрын

Fair and Balanced ™©®

@Thomas.Wright

Жыл бұрын

@@plixypl0x Then it's a good thing I said "honest" instead. :D

@jennyjustjenny7634

Жыл бұрын

Other reviews say what they don't like based on the lore, writing, camera work and what not as well.

@mikegillettify

Жыл бұрын

Well said Thomas

@dillonbija9592

Жыл бұрын

The show was doomed from the beginning, not 30 minutes after the first episodes were dropped it was already review bombed by neckbeard losers. I’ve read the books and appendices and the show is still entertaining despite its flaws.

Thank you for your reviews of the whole show. Your honesty is very much appreciated. There is just so much things wrong with this travesty of a show and I can't even remember when I got so angry watching something and I don't even have that deep knowledge of the lore. The whole thing with them pulling whole scenes and even DIALOGUES from PJ's movies makes me so bloody angry - and do they even know they ripped off PJ paying homage to *Bakshi* ? Doubt it.

At least we’re at a point where we’re used to bad adaptations/sequels/reboots of popular media. No matter how bad this show was it can’t take away from how good the source material is (even if they replace the covers lol). This is something I think we’ve all learnt over the years.

@CaptainVincentRiley

Жыл бұрын

As a huge fan of the Witcher books, I can only agree.

@di3486

Жыл бұрын

I feel bad for the young. They didn’t get to grow up in an age of rich cultural creativity like some of us.

@Sammo212

Жыл бұрын

@@CaptainVincentRiley the Witcher show is so painful for me lol. Geralt and Jaskier are the only two things carrying the show in my opinion.

@CaptainVincentRiley

Жыл бұрын

@@Sammo212 Jaskier's wig irritates me endlessly, I can't look at the guy. But what they did to my man Kahir is unbearable. And Yenefer's plot... Unbelievable

@dbass9544

Жыл бұрын

@@Shadow-gm9ct amazon is selling reprint of the LOtR books but with images from tROP show on the covers. They did the same thing when the Peter Jackson trilogy came out.

My question is if the rzn in the show for the creation of the rings is to save the elves from dying how will they justify the creation of the rings for the dwarves and men?

@maxthommesen9315

Жыл бұрын

The ring where never made for men and dwarfs they where all elven rings... only sauron after he crafted the ome waged war on the elvs took all the ring exept the 3 and gave them ro the dwsrs and men

@marcusdupree3517

Жыл бұрын

They can't justify it because they themselves don't even know

@tombraiderstrums09

Жыл бұрын

My guess is that the Seven and the Nine will be forged offscreen in between seasons 1 and 2 and then at some point Halbron will just whip them out of his pocket 🙄

@vanessa7717

Жыл бұрын

I'm not as bothered by that because they were essays in the craft, given to dwarves and men by Sauron to bring them under his dominion. BUT THE 7 AND THE 9 DID NOT EVEN APPEAR IN THE SERIES. C'mon.......you can't omit that.

@mrrodriguezHLP

Жыл бұрын

Step 1: Dwarven Rings. Step 2: ??? Step 3: Profit.

Thank you so much for covering this show weekly. Your videos have kept me sane, being able to hear an honest voice of reason and balance after each episode. I too am relieved that S1 is over and I can hopefully forget about this show for 2 years.

Elbereth is mentioned so many times in the original trilogy. They could have easily had Galadriel take her name in reverence a few times, and achieved two things, 1. Have her demonstrate some humility and not be the warrior automaton 2. Reinforce the importance of stars overall in the world.

Thanks for this great review, and the others during the season. As in the chat in live stream, let me list some missed opportunities. They could tell the real fear of death of Numenorians in a good way, the true journey of Galadriel and Celeborn of finding a place to rule, secrect construction of Barad-dur, the friendship of Celebrimbor and Narvi, the construction of West door of Khazad Dum, the faithful Isildur who are brave to steal a part of white tree, a good made up story for Blue Wizards, etc. I'm so sad when I think these. Instead of giving the details of Tolkien' second age, they preffered to tell a new story with a little reference of Tolkien.

Had a really hard time with how they portrayed Galadriel like even at this point she is still one of the wisest elves alive like she is older than Gil-Galad and way older than elrond. Like I like the idea of her having a growth to how we get to the Galadriel in lotr but honestly I'm surprised she wasn't already dead if this is the ways she's been acting. Really bad writing for her.

@skylanh4319

Жыл бұрын

They claimed she was going through a character arc but by this time she was like 1000 years old. lol bad writing, bad acting and bad directing. All around fail

Meteor Man would have been solid as a season ending cliffhanger. Then again if they did that, we might have got more Galadrial Pert Plus horse-riding commercials 😛

@Thomas.Wright

Жыл бұрын

Am I the only person who remembers Meteor Man, the black superhero from the 90s?

@majscrap2629

Жыл бұрын

Galadrial's strap your boobs down bra.

Please ignore the haters Yoystan, you and Royan have been fair and balanced the entire time this series has been running, it’s a shame haters are aggressively hating and the people who love the show are attacking people who don’t like it and express those opinions. People are cruel.

@Thomas.Wright

Жыл бұрын

100%.

Glad to find ya'll. Was watching Nerdrotic and he highly recommends you. Definitely can see why.

Throughout episode 8 I was like “please don’t let this be the rings, please let this be something else”, but my desperate hopes were in vain. I’m only a casual Tolkien fan, but I know enough lore that when the rings were revealed I had to stop the episode in dismay. To get the creation of the rings so wrong really says a lot about how these writers do not care a bit for Tolkien works. And I had such high hopes all those years ago when this series was first announced.

@doomsdaybooty1072

Жыл бұрын

It's like they're pissing us off on purpose. Why intentionally mess up the cornerstone of your story?!

in listening to y'all i kept saying yes...yesss....YES! Thank you for your nuance and Tolkien knowledge. AND your critiques of the storylines. Honestly it is watchable, but there were many times that I'd found sequences frustrating to annoying. I'd assumed it was just because it was superficial and off-lore in one way or another.....and THEN you articulated so many more details on why , and I immediately recognised it. Really good. Thank you :)

Thank God it's over and that comes from disappointment not hate-watching. Thanks for the objectivity and you deserve more attention for it. There's not even a danger of longevity from this show, it doesn't have the craft or intelligence to inspire retrospect or nostalgia. It's on its last legs as soon as it concludes. Two and a half years probably for season 2 with the same architects at work has an inevitability baked in. Back to the actual lore and legendarium.

For the name Olorin, in Lord of the Rings (the book) Gandalf says to Faramir who calls him the Grey Pilgrim, "Many are my names in many countries. Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkûn to the Dwarves, Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incánus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not."

Honesty and integrity matter and are very much appreciated - thank you!

I watched all of your reviews of the show. I commend you for your integrity and your love for Tolkien's art. I finally subbed after this video. Good work gentlemen!

Thank you for not being a shill

Was the horse ride realistic? Shadowfax says "Neigh".

It’s unbelievable how yous managed to make it through the entire season i had to quit after they introduced the hairfoots

@majscrap2629

Жыл бұрын

Yea. It was pretty bad. With all the Harfoot being mostly old women and little girls, I'd love to be a male one. The ratio would be amazing. They would screw the skin off his pecker.

If this show was cancelled, it would be a bit of a relief really. Unlike Netflix cancelling Dark Crystal:Age of Resistance, which was bought to us by the Henson Company & Lisa Henson herself. One of the best prequels ever presented. Astounding cinematography, great casting and an awesome soundtrack!❤️ I would swap a season 2 of RoP for a second season of DC:AoR in a nanosecond!!

@skylanh4319

Жыл бұрын

I would like more Marco Polo

I don't agree with everything but I really enjoyed this review, very professional and mature. Really wish Amazon can hear your review. Bravo!

Many thanks for this great discussion -- and so balanced. Love you guys.

Yoystan- i dont know if thats a pseudonym - is fantastic. Best guy out there on lore. And honest.

This show has crystalized to me that while I don't care as much about whether an adaptation is 100% faithful to the source, the writing better be excellent. Unfortunately for this show, and a general trend in Hollywood, is that they don't do either. Hence why despite the $1 billion budget it still feels so damn cheap.

Having a hard time with this series. The long time Tolkien fan in me is just glad to see anything new but at the same time I sure wish Amazon would have stayed truer to what has been written.

@Thomas.Wright

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, to me, that's like going to a 5-star restaurant, ordering some of the most delectable items off the menu, only for them to bring me some greasy Taco Bell they dug out of the trash. This is most certainly not what we ordered, and not what we wanted.

@Alexs.2599

Жыл бұрын

I feel you, it's disheartening for sure.

@skylanh4319

Жыл бұрын

I would have rather they didn’t make anything then make a crap show that ruins the potential of a good show in the near future.

Yoystan, the only one who never sold out. You have shown your quality, sir. The very highest 🙏🏻

There are stories that are character driven. There are stories that are plot-driven. Thanks to Rings of Power, we have been introduced to a whole new style of storytelling; this masterpiece right here, is writer-driven! They literally write whatever THEY want to happen. It doesn't matter who does it, how they do it, when they do it and to whom they do it, as long as it happens! It's bold! Stupid, but BOLD!

My biggest annoyance is that the characters didn't act normal. Their dialogue was always indirect and they spoke in parallel unrelated questions to one another. When drama occurred, it wasn't responded to normally (oh well Galadriel, don't know know where you were, why you were wet and what that man did to you, meh.) Harfeet went against their jingle (no one gets left behind) characters change so much from episode to episode. Secondly, rules of physics change (elves not needing medicine, needing medicine, Lava hot but not hot.) Script writers acted as if the right hand never knew what the left hand was doing. One other thing, copping images and reminisces from Peter Jackson LOTR, ie excessive use of apples, the horse running scenes, Gandalf's reveal. Lastly, you can't be that dedicated and vengeful and intuitive about finding Sauron and not realise he's under your nose the whole time.

Thanks for making the video! I really enjoyed how you acknowledged people who liked the show. There's no end to people ranting about tv shows and games and so forth. However, I feel like they normally just bash the show and try their best to convince the audience that it's bad and everyone else think it's bad and it's objectively proven bad. I really enjoy how you guys express it as your opinion. It's a big reason why I enjoy Men of the West videos so much. It just feels like a fun time.

I think that even if season 2 is better or if they somehow manage to give us everything we’re asking for, it still wouldn’t be able to overshadow all the damage and disappointment from the first season. That’s why it would probably be better if amazon just cancels the series and starts over with the money they have left. The current budget they have left is probably greater than GOT and HOTD combined.

The LOTR movies certainly made the stakes feel more believable. You could see the tiers of Minas Tirath being taken one by one as the people slowly ran out of places to retreat to.

@Men of the West Since you like Gil-galad so much, I wonder which version of the character you consider canon. Do you prefer him as the son of Fingon or of Orodreth?

@MenoftheWest

Жыл бұрын

Orodreth for me, I think! I like to think that the plight of the Noldor was such that the kingship fell into Finarfin’s line for a time, exiting that of Fingolfin’s line.

@hugoferreira7992

Жыл бұрын

@@MenoftheWest Gotta say I prefer the Fingon version because the kingship follows a more linear logic this way (and Fingon of course is far more badass than Orodreth). But more particularly, I like the symbolism of Gil-galad dying in single combat against Sauron if he is the grandson of Fingolfin, who died in single combat against Morgoth. It's a nice callback of the type Tolkien so very often liked to do.

Your Middle Earth videos are always amazing and well done. Hopefully your channel can now get back to only covering actual Tolkien content. I prefer to forget this show for awhile and am glad the season is over. It was poorly written, extremely predictable and did not feel like Middle Earth 🤷 It’s a shame because the series had so much potential and it was all just thrown in the trash.

@Galadonin

Жыл бұрын

We shouldn't just put RoP away. I know, it's shite, but we have to welcome new people. Some people will like the series, some Tolkien fan will like it, many of us aren't. But we have to welcome people, tell them how great the lore is, to learn more about the theme introduced in the show. And for any Tolkien channel, he can't just throw people off. Even if Tolkien lore is huge, it's not limit less, so the show will bring views, new types of video, even critique ones.

@JM-jj3eg

Жыл бұрын

And yet you will definitely hate-watch season 2. What a pathetic existence.

@tomoflathead

Жыл бұрын

@@Galadonin Who says we can't welcome new fans and simultaneously toss this husk of a show in the trash where it belongs? It doesn't deserve to stick around.

@sird2403

Жыл бұрын

Kanker op rapist-hollywood

What is the current state of the Tolkien estate? I feel like after Christopher passed the estate doesn’t care at all unless money is involved

I appreciate that you guys are actually honest. I feel like a lot of lore channels defended the show just for the sake of making content out of it. I don’t blame them, but the show frankly doesn’t deserve to be defended

The Harfoot storyline: scenes to grab your phone and scroll Facebook to. The theme of the Harfoots easily could’ve and should’ve been “wandering isn’t a viable lifestyle anymore. We need to set down roots”…”oh you’re right, I hear there’s an area to the west that’s protected and we could be safe there”.

This series could have been really phenomenal if the show runners had simply stayed closer to the lore. It's a big disappointment. Tolkien's works should not be altered nor do do they need to be 'improved' upon to suit a so called contemporary modern audience to fit their sensibilities. His legendarium stands for all time the way it is. RESPECT IT, PERIOD!

@TheInfectous

Жыл бұрын

Nah, the refusal of modern audiences to see qnd accept new things is quite frankly pathetic. If you like Tolkiens universe that all still exists, like are you bragging about being so immature that you can't handle someone else telling a different story with the material? This show is bad regardless of lore, it has nothing to do with changes.

@dillonbija9592

Жыл бұрын

Then make your own show.

@dillonbija9592

Жыл бұрын

@@Alexs.2599 Cope.

@dillonbija9592

Жыл бұрын

@@Alexs.2599 Nice strawman. Cope nerd.

Amazon helped with one thing. The hypocrisy of some "tolkien-loving" channels.

@rksnj6797

Жыл бұрын

Yes!!!

@Alexs.2599

Жыл бұрын

Sadly very true.

Bring RYAN Back for more. He has been so Good.

I would like to see a put-together full review of the series like your usual videos, apart from the more casual podcast style. Not a complaint, just a request! : )

1:26:34 Exactly. This d&d Galadriel would be one of those, "I'm downing a full potion of healing because I'm missing a single HP. Oh, sorry, My character has the intelligence score of 2, which equals that of a wolf. But hey, 18 strength baby". Bless you for all time and emotions you put into this!

@hilaryfijolek4608

Жыл бұрын

Hey, I know two people who owned half-wolves (half dog), and one who did wolf rescue and rehabilitation. Wolves are a HELL of a lot smarter than Amazon's ROP characters!!!

@squashedeyeball

Жыл бұрын

@@hilaryfijolek4608 There is something in that. Although the question in whether they had a tempest in them.

Not my thing but as I've said before; whatever you can drag out of it good, and I like your content covering the real material.

If you take away the expensive CGI and Lord of the Rings name then I think you have a show on par with Xena warrior princess and Hercules. People also like those shows

@gpcovenant

Жыл бұрын

This is an insult to xena and Hercules. Lol. Those shows knew exactly what they were, cheesy Greek mythology. They never tried to act like anything else And at a writing/craft level they were competent.

I didn’t watch this live ,but watching it now. On the moment where you are answering questions to the live chat I presume ( Durin and Elrond part). The question about the ( madeup mithril by Amazon ) and the Sindar becoming enlightened . I want to remind a few things : 1st The Sindar ,or the Teleri that stayed behind to wait for Elwe ( Elu Thingol ) ,when he comes back changed with the statue of a Valar ( as Tolkien writes in the Silmarilion) and brings with him a Maia queen ( Melian) enlightens them ,so they become Sindar or the Grey elves ,because they ( aside of him) have not seen the two trees themselves ,but he enlightens them to that level,and Tolkien often writes the Sindar become equal to the elves in Valinor in most aspects . So,to say the Sindar are “ not enlightened “ is not quite true,despite of them not reaching Valinor. 2) Elrond is a mixture of Edain, Sindar,Noldor and Maia origin ,Gilgalad is Noldor ,Galadriel is Noldor that comes from Valinor ,I am not even sure which Sindar you mean to be enlightened there. 3) as for Luthien, as a half-Maia she was far above any Noldor tbh,so was Thingol who not only saw the trees himself,but also being with Melian transformed into an even higher being.

1:43:42 for anyone curious, telanovelas are soap operas (usually) produced in Latin American countries. The comment was probably referring to how telenovelas often rely on predictable, cheesy plots like melodramatic love triangles

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Tolkien veto power came with some heavy conditionings. Probably would require a large return of licensing fees in regards to Tolkiens works. They probably just didn’t want to go to court over it. Despite this it’s still disappointing they wouldn’t try harder to protect the Tolkien image.

@doomsdaybooty1072

Жыл бұрын

Ya well the grandson, Simon Tolkien, seems hell bent on destroying his grandfather's lore

@quixotiq

Жыл бұрын

I bet amazon money talked louder than anything. And they just buckled (the Tolkien Estate) -- it's just as people have said, a giant cash grab for both. A pox on both their houses!

33:58 ladies this is good advice, if a man doesn't try to drown you he may be trying to tell you he's interested in you

The thing that worries me about Amazon continuing this show is that somewhere down the line, maybe 10 years from now, we get into conversations where some truly believes what they watched here is part of the Middle-Earth lore. I think you can enjoy the show while admitting it is its own entity outside that universe. I believe it's important to discern Tolkien's Legendarium, one of the most remarkable work in English literature, and Ring of Powers which I think we can all agree is more about being flashy. I'd still prefer to see it canceled. But a fair amount of people did enjoyed it and it would be unfair to simply ignore them, so as long as we can agree it's not part of the legendarium I will be at peace if Amazon continues the production!

@doomsdaybooty1072

Жыл бұрын

Very diplomatic. I just hope they cancel it before the 2nd season

@gnickthegnome1981

Жыл бұрын

As one who enjoyed parts of the show, and is hopeful for improvement (read: optimistically aware of its flaws), we can certainly agree it is separate from the legendarium.

I just realised a potentially massive plot hole with mythril 😂 If that tiny piece of mythril is so powerful then Frodo and bilbo are walking around wearing THE MOST POWERFUL ARTEFACT IN ALL OF MIDDLE EARTH, A HAUBERK SOAKED IN THE LIGHT OF A SILMARIL AND BY EXTENSION THE VERY LIGHT OF VALINOR 😂

@Swampymcpimp

Жыл бұрын

By this show’s logic it should shoot lasers 😂

@Thomas.Wright

Жыл бұрын

@@Swampymcpimp Boromir could have had those Laser Bears he wanted! Ninja Wizards are still hard to find.

As much as I love the LOTR film trilogy, a part of me also laments that they opened the door to Tolkien being "embraced" (actually appropriated) by mainstream culture, because mainstream culture ruins almost everything it touches, and ROP is just one more example of that. I don't want any more movie or TV adaptations. What I really want is for Hollywood, and mainstream corporate culture in general, to leave Tolkien alone from here out, and I'm hoping that Amazon loses enough money on this series to make that happen.

in the lore she is established as being second in power only to feanor for sure (galadriel)

@michaelrendler3703

Жыл бұрын

Does it specifically say that though? Because I think there are several elves who are equal if not greater in power than Galadriel.

@Don9872

Жыл бұрын

@@michaelrendler3703 Using 'power' is probably not the right term. I think its established she is the 2nd 'greatest' elf, but that can mean plenty of things other than how 'powerful' she is. For example how long and effectively she opposed Sauron through the 2nd and 3rd ages.

@michaelrendler3703

Жыл бұрын

@@Don9872 true, I think the greatness aspect is the key component. Some elves are powerful but didn’t maintain their purity in the way she did. I still consider glorfindel to be among the greatest. He never gets the props he deserves

I rewatched the part where your superchat said she says olorin. She actually says “or lying” in a thick Irish accent lol she was talking about the witches getting his name wrong and that they may be lying about going to rhun. I think they’re doing exactly what you said, leave all these clues/hints that it’s Gandalf without actually saying it and they’ll see how people feel about it before they say for sure in the next season.

@sabineb.5616

Жыл бұрын

Steven Leitner, I think you might be right. But I think that the show-runners need to keep the Olorin narrative because they dropped too many hints which pointed at the Gandalf-hypothesis. Most viewers will be very upset if meteor man will NOT be revealed as the wizard who will be called Gandalf thousands of years later! However, it's actually quite safe to predict that we will eventually meet the blue wizards as well. We learned that the three witch-wraiths know about the istari and they know apparently that there is more than one of these guys. And since we can safely exclude that the witch-wraiths whose home is in the East of Middle Earth, have met Saruman and Radagast, they must know something about the existence of the blue wizards. Maybe Olorin has been sent to Middle Earth in order to find out what happened to the blue istari. But the Valar who was responsible for Olorin's fiery crash landing on Middle Earth, should be fired and given a job as janitor 😉

Your take on this show was spot on. I have been checking your vids along with others and I was disappointed with some of the reviews giving this show 6 or higher out of 10. A person that is honest about the show has to see its flaws. Shad Brooks and the gang from Friday Night Tights pointed out that the printed scale mail on cloth armor, isn't printed on the underside of the arm pit. The armor is garbage, the rings looked cheap, and a seam can be seen in the ring on the left, no fight coordination at all. The worst offense was that fight with the orc in the tavern where DonLemonlas didn't have a weapon in his hand and just patted the orc on the back, as if it was supposed to have a weapon put in later and they forgot. Overall, there was very little thought put into this product. The Amazon motto of "Just Ship IT." seem to come through loud and clear. Need a QC advisor.

In my opinion this show was the perfect storm of several factors: 1) Lack of source material 2) The untimely passing of Christopher Tolkien 3) Current woke era Hollywood 4) The diminished talent of the NZ film industry since PJs LOTR days 5) The pandemic and everything that goes with that 6) Amazons base intention to make the "next GOTs" instead of doing something original

@Thomas.Wright

Жыл бұрын

You left out: "Writers were disciples of Jar-Jar Abrams." You simply cannot underestimate the stench of Bad Robot all over this.

@Alexs.2599

Жыл бұрын

Sounds about right. Hit the nail here.

@Alexs.2599

Жыл бұрын

@@Thomas.Wright Yes this as well. These writers are absolutely terrible.

@Makkaru112

Жыл бұрын

Hellywood has also ways been Hellywood

@glennross85

Жыл бұрын

@@Thomas.Wright I kinda threw them in with number 3 but youre right 👍

The Silmarillion, or, Elves Behaving Badly

I'm so happy you guys are way more honest than Nerd of the Rings. That's dude still can't bring himself ro say this show ended up being terrible

I think my favorite scene of the show has to be the final confrontation between Elrond and Gil-Galad. When Elrond is trying to convince the high king that they should give the Mythril a chance and asked for 3 months to work on a solution, as it was the least owed to him. Gil-Galad responds with "I owe you nothing", as if his father wasn't crucial at the end of the War of Wrath. It's a good allegory for Amazon and the Tolkien fans. "I owe you nothing", even if the fanbase of the novels led for the creation of the movies and shows to happen at all.

Thank you for your fair and intelligent reviews. The Rings of Powers could have been the series that Tolkien fans have been visualizing for decades. The Second Age is so ripe period for amazing stories and lore. With all the resources available from Amazon it potentially had the makings of an incredible Numenorean saga.....it missed its mark on nearly all the important points, except for the visually effects. This show will be an asterisk in ten years.

While the show was a long way from a masterpiece I feel that musically and visually they very much still made it feel like middle earth and while the stories, themes and writing from the show may be full of holes and far from accurate to the source material a lot of people have enjoyed being back in middle earth and seeing characters they know along with new ones interact with a middle earth different from what we've seen on the big screen previously. While I think it's the reason the show falls on its face in places and struggles with pacing the multiple storylines did help my enjoyment for no matter how bored I got watching the harfoots or numenorians at least Elrond is a standout and I can't think of a single scene or piece of dialogue with a dwarf or set in kazahd dum that really stripped away immersion like there were in some of the other settings and ensembles

"In place of a Dark Lord you would have a Queen! Not dark but beautiful and terrible as the Dawn! Treacherous as the Seas! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love me and despair!"

Honestly I think that JRR Tolkien's attitude to any adaptation would be the Alan Moore school of thought "Nothing to do with me. Not interested" , which was pretty much his attitude when he sold the rights (as he admitted freely) for the cash. Christopher on the other hand was much more protective and I think its him who would have been horrified.

@skylanh4319

Жыл бұрын

He actually said either I have control and can sign off on how it is done, OR there is just so much money I don’t care. He was a realist and acknowledged EVERYONE has a price.

@sariellakingdom1878

Жыл бұрын

@@skylanh4319 IIRC he pretty much realised he was not getting a faithful adaptation. Control not being an option so he went for the cash. (fair play) Don't know if he felt everyone has a price but ironically he was wrong. Christopher did not and neither (going back to my previous comment) did Alan Moore who demanded DC took his name off of any movie adaptations and gave his share of cash to his co-creators.

I think a lot of people don’t understand that most of what we know as canon for the 2nd age is actually off limit for Amazon (because its not referecend in the Hobbit, LoTR and its appendix). So basically they had to improvise to tie it all together and honestly I think they did ok knowing that. The real question is why would they choose to do a 2nd age story when they did not even own the rights for most of it??? Also why did the Tolkien Estate was fine with that? Money yes, but they could also had gotten money and sold a more lore compliant segment of rights (fall or Gondolin…)

@Thomas.Wright

Жыл бұрын

That right there is the big problem: they paid a metric crapton of money for "rights" that didn't give them a whole lot of material. It's still possible to do a compelling story without those rights, though. I've seen videos on YT of people presenting their own ideas how to do a Second Age series, and they're a lot more creative than what we actually got. But they should have made sure they had all the rights they needed from the beginning.

@JulieMoran1832

11 ай бұрын

There is a bounty of info regarding young Aragorn in the appendices: His journeys and adventures as Thorongil in service at Rohan to king Thengel. With that, there's a chance to show off other lesser-known characters like Thengel's wife Morwen Steelsheen, a Gondorian noble woman, their children, little kid Theoden, his sisters etc. Then his service to Ecthelion in Gondor and young Denethor harboring rivalry thoughts towards this stranger, the famous attack on Umbar, Aragorn sailing on ships commanding fleets, sea battles with Corsairs of Umbar. His journeys into "far countries of Rhun and Harad where the stars are strange", where he was "exploring hearts of men both evil and good and uncovering plots and devices of the servants of Sauron", his first crossing of Moria, his love story with Arwen, the story of his parents, Gilraen and Arathorn, Aragorn's grandparents Dirhael and Ivorwen etc. I would love to have seen those stories fleshed out in the form of a TV series. You know what, never mind. I shudder to think what Amazon would have done if they’d actually done with a “young Aragorn” series. I'm sure they'd have managed to screw that up too. They are just that inept!

I figured out a great analogy for the people complaining that us lore nerds are disliking the show Rings of Power. Imagine you go to a concert to see a band that's covering your favorite band of all time. But the cover band changes all the lyrics to the music and changes the melody and harmonies / beat & timing. Which is an interesting comparison since Eru ilúvatar ( God ) and the Valar ( Demi Gods ) sang the world into creation.

@Thomas.Wright

Жыл бұрын

Like if I went to a Wind Rose concert, but all they played were Justin Bieber songs.

@quixotiq

Жыл бұрын

ooh, good analogy! Well done.

Harfoot storyline: Walking somewhere. Forever. Lugging around giant carts full of grass and cute moss and figs to put in our hair for no reason. Horrible pace. Cruelly leaving people behind. Claiming they never do it. Literally no understanding of cause and effect. Irrational decision making and treachery. All around terrible acting and VERY CRINGY breaking of the 4th wall. Serves only to get Gandalf alone with a hobbit again. You guys memmber? I member!

40:29 - “Give me the meat, and give it to me raw” I think was intended to be along the lines of “don’t butcher it” kind of pun.

@mikegillettify

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. I took it as don’t sugar coat it to me

The Elves of Doriath, in my understanding, are Sindar not just because of Thingol but because of Melian. They witnessed the light of the Two Trees, somewhat diminished, in the being of Melianand so were raised in stature and "power" above the other Avari.

So sad that certain channels (nerd of the Rings ) succumbed to his own ring of power....Amazon... thanks for keeping it real. I agree with your thoughts. I wanted to love this show. I rooted for it. I gave it an entire season to prove everyone wrong. Unfortunately, it didn't. Thank you for what you do.

Can someone explain to me why Halbrand was lost in the middle of the ocean?

@doomsdaybooty1072

Жыл бұрын

Because reasons

@Thomas.Wright

Жыл бұрын

Because it was In The SCRIPT!

Arondir is described as a Silvan elf who was raised in Beleriand. Am I crazy, or isn't the defining trait of Silvan elves the fact that they did not enter Beleriand?

One minor point- Galadriel breaking into see Muriel’s sick dad actually softens Galadriel, not Muriel. The queen still sends Galadriel away after that- it was the petals falling off the tree that convinces Muriel to help Galadriel. You’re right about everything else though. For the Sauron to reveal to work I think it needed to explain more of his plan and why he was on that raft. Whether he was really trying to be good or if he was planning the whole thing from the start. Instead, it looks like he just fell backwards into everything.

The only postive thing that i got from this show is that it made me appreciate the Hobbit movies more.

@doomsdaybooty1072

Жыл бұрын

Ya they certainly outshine this drivel. I'd give them a 6/10, LotR 9/10, and RoP 2/10 (because I'm feeling generous)

We have to acknowledge the comedy gold that Amazon has brought to us😂😂😂 I got some really good belly laughs.

This season is such a disappointment. Rather than Galadriel, if they had to make a change to the lore, it would have been Celebrian born at the end of the First age so that we could have been following her and Elrond through the Second age. Not much is know about Celebrian and that would have given a lot of leeway for the story. I was really looking forwards to a more political story between the different factions amongst the elven and numenorean realms. Season 1 : The building of the realms after the war of wrath, reign of Elros and his first successors, establishment of Eregion, the easterlings settling their realms in the east. Season 2 : The numenoreans' maritime explorations, Celebrimbor's growing frustration with his lack of achievements, Sauron's expanding domination in the east and then his arrival in Ost-in-Edhil. Season 3 : The forging of the Rings, War of the Elves and Sauron, establishment of Imladris, arrival of the 2 istaris who went to oppose Sauron in the east. Season 4 : Numenorean imperialism, creation of the Nazgûls, lots of room for opposition between the blue wizards and the nazgûls in the east. Season 5 : The great Armament and The Last alliance. Span the 3000+ years, use it to show the difference of point of view between the different races, the growing resentment of men towards elves, the difficulty for elves to connect with men with small lifespan. Rather than sprinkling black characters here and there, I would have prefered all nations. I could see a southern Moriquendi nation (in my head, I see elven Massaï) embroiled in the rising influence of Sauron and his Nazgûls. Good thing about this show, it led me to your youtube channel.

Amazon shares tanked 20% today after hours. It will keep going down. This could jeopardize or even delay some of the show.

Your reviews have been the one thing to look forward to after each progressively disappointing episode. I don't know how to forget the things I have seen, unfortunately - I am trying to do so by re-reading the "things they had the rights to", so that it's the last thing I remember before the "Fall of Numenor" comes out next month. Thank you.

@Thomas.Wright

Жыл бұрын

You might also enjoy Nerdrotic's reviews. Not his livestream reviews - tend to be long-winded and a bit dull - but his scripted reviews of this show are hilarious. Might even be therapeutic, in the same way as that cheesehead with the two robots trapped in space.

I wold not have that much of a problem if they didn't condensed thousands of years into few months... Will never be able to get over that

After watching the first episode I remember thinking (writing somewhere prehaps) that beside a couple of names it had nothing to do with Tolkien, and that they should have just have done a fantasy series with a different name and a different world if they wanted to do things on their own. There is nothing wrong in creating a new story and a new fantasy series, go for it, just don't ruin pre existing lores, stories and characters written by others and loved by millions, billions perhaps. And that consideration, if I may say so myself aged like fine wine. It's a 0/10 as far as a Tolkien adaptation goes, but it's not a total wreck in general, it's pretty mediocre, around 4-5/10, they should have done their own thing, and they would have created a mediocre fantasy series with some good scenes and bad ones, with a mixed bag of pacing and story, it could have been something to start with, instead they decided to adapt material they didn't have, to change the story and characters all over the place and to attack and insult the fandom of that specific universe to try and hide their own short comings. This should be an example on how not to adapt material, on how not to create a series, and on how not to deal with your own fandom critics.

I rode with the series until the finale as objectively as possible and tried to refrain from normative reviews- so I'm just now catching up to your analysis even tho I'm a huge fan of your lore vids. I really tried to enjoy this series and did enjoy a ton of aspects before the finale, but the writing in the finale finally removed my suspension of disbelief and crushed me as a fan of Tolkein's Legendarium. I felt super empty and disappointed with the Sauron reveal. Haven't felt that way since the last couple seasons of GoT butchered GRRM's work. Before the finale, I'd give this season a 5.5/10. After the finale, I'd probably give it a 4/10.

Great title! It suits the marring of Tolkien.

now to save the show , start the show with sauron in khazaddum , awakening the balrog and giving one ring to the king to save his people , sell your soul to the devil to save your people type deal , king tricks balrog into a deeper tunnel and escapes with some power of the ring ( he can then be seen to manipulate the leaf healing scene ) , cut to sauron journeying with a different disguise to lindon and then ingrating himself by assisting a celebrimbor struggling with a problem and then cut to sauron poisoning the tree and talking with celebrimbor about possible solutions.him listening to gilgalads speech about sending galadriel back home , sauron then builts/steals a boat ahead of galadriels ship and positions himself to intercept them. missing them due to monster but ending up in the same place as galadriel.

When someone explains to me in details how one can survive a fiery volcanic eruption straight to the face, only then I will take this show seriously.

The writing is B movie level. You need something just write it in. They have used reflections of LOTR characters and situations at every opportunity. i have a theory about our confirmed wizard. He is one of the Blue Wizards and in character and role reflects Gandalf. They are now on their way to the eastern kingdom of Rhun. He will find his brother Wiz there and we will now have a character and role reflection of Rhadagast. The dynamic duo of Wizards back together for the first time! i am amazed Poppy is not joining in on the adventure with them and continuing that reflection of Sam & Frodo.

That billion went to the Tolkien estate, it had to cuz the money is not in the quality of the show so they must have used a lot of the money to buy/pay off the Tolkien estate for the rights then just changed all this into trash. I mean Tolkien said it himself. “Men who above all else desire power.” I bet the estate made some crazy number they thought Amazon could not come up with and amazon then did, and they might have been in some sort of negotiation at that time and when stuff that expensive is on the table it’s like Elon musk buying twitter, courts and deals are involved like your sucked in and can’t back out.

OMG, and the comparison between House of the Dragon and Rings of Power is SO on point. The former is just so much better in terms of characterization (unless you have kids I guess!). Hmmm....was that an Amazon/ HBO signoff difference??? I really hope not, but worth considering.

I just started finished the show, almost a year after it’s release (I was busy with life and at the time chose to watch HotD and didn’t have the mercy to watch this) and I have to say. It’s not a great show, but I enjoy parts of it as a fan of Tolkien’s stories and work. My favorite parts were with Durin IV/Elrond and the ring forging (the very end). It’s not a good show, but I think parts of it were enjoyable for fans (although the lord changes were weird and felt evident to me, who barely knows the more intricate and deep stuff… like Gandalf and Mordor’s creation)

If it had nothing to do with Tolkien I would genuinely enjoy this series. To me, the biggest problem with Rings of Power is that I've read the source material.

@Thomas.Wright

Жыл бұрын

Honestly, it would be a mediocre fantasy story. It would have gotten a 4/10 from me. But the connection to Tolkien drops it to a 2/10, same level I put The Shyamalan Last Airbender film.

@RandyRobbo

Жыл бұрын

@@Thomas.Wright oh I'm not saying it would be groundbreaking or anything I just think it would be at least a little bit fun, which I feel is lacking from a lot of media nowadays