Hello everyone. This video was filmed, edited, and published before the disheartening and awful announcement that Ricky Potts’ disability was removed from the script of Ride the Cyclone for any future performances. Like many, I am incredibly disappointed at the writers for erasing disability representation, which is so important in theater and all pieces of media. I debated on not even posting this video because of it; however the discussion about disability representation is so important and we as viewers need to continue having these valuable conversations about creating a safe space for everyone in theater by having representation and accessibility, and removing bigotry and harmful stereotypes. I decided to post this video to spread a message I discussed in it; Hate, ignorance, and bigotry have absolutely NO place in theater and in the whole entire world. Continue listening to disabled voices, and fight against this ableist and incredibly despicable decision made by the writers. #SaveRickyPotts

@Apple_Bapple

Жыл бұрын

was it the writers fault or the theatre's fault?

@ryndobit9576

Жыл бұрын

@@Apple_Bapple The writers removed Ricky's disability from the script, and the theatre fired a disabled actor for being disabled, so it's both of their faults.

@RedOnly

Жыл бұрын

@@ryndobit9576 but WHY was he fired? Equality means being equally being held to standards and expectations. Was he regularly late? Insult somebody? Leak production info? Or just because he was disabled? The why matters.

@ryndobit9576

Жыл бұрын

@@RedOnly if you looked up the full situation before replying, you wouldn't have to ask this stupid question. they fired him on the first show night, bc he had to leave the stage to puke blood because of his disability that they ALREADY KNEW ABOUT. and that was the only time that it happened too.

@RedOnly

Жыл бұрын

@@ryndobit9576 wow. How tolerant and kind of you.

My friend pointed out Mischa actually describing the plot of Saw 6 and it's now her headcanon that Mischa owns a Saw 6 DVD but inside a Saw 5 case.

@oceanunknown

Жыл бұрын

Omg I love that

@axsolotle3784

Жыл бұрын

My head canon has always been that Mischa just gets confused by roman numerals lol

@jundeggsandspam6271

Жыл бұрын

Semi theory is that saw-heads join saw 3 and 4 together as a whole since time wise they take place nearly simultaneously together. Kinda of like a pseudo machete order that star wars fans use.

@oceanunknown

Жыл бұрын

@@jundeggsandspam6271 That makes sense!

@burntp0tat0cosplay

Жыл бұрын

I’m now adopting this headcanon because the Saw 6 plot for a Saw 5 description has been driving me crazy 💀

As someone who is disabled, I always thought ricky conceding was more about his character than his disability. I mean his song in the show is all about how we shouldn’t pick sides and just learn to love each other and stop fighting. So him conceding and refusing to participate in the vote makes total sense. Its not about his disability, its about his world view.

@Ramen_Doodles08

6 ай бұрын

Yes, my thoughts, too!! And I do think it fits in to the theme of acceptance as well, as he’s decided to just accept that he is dead; even if he wasn’t disabled, this would be an impactful moment!

@mangotherainwing6866

3 ай бұрын

And he also knew that realistically he wouldn’t live as long as anyone else.

@truebornseeker9767

3 ай бұрын

Also disabled and yeah- absolutely I do still agree that his character is still kinda ableist, and that he could’ve kept his disabilities in the afterlife (though I think I’d be more neutral on him gaining a voice and mobility in his song because it’s him singing about his escapist fantasy where he’s not disabled and can express himself freely, though that’s also not great it at least makes sense beyond “he’s dead now so he’s not disabled anymore”, him conceding has nothing to do with his disabilities, it’s everything to do with his selflessness and world view

@Ozloz

2 ай бұрын

I was thinking exactly that! He says that the reason he conceded is because “choosing yourself would be the ultimate dick move”, he wants to be a good person and I believe he would’ve chosen this wether he was disabled or not. It wasn’t “I’m disabled so I don’t need to be revived” it was “I feel like it’s unfair for me to be an option to bring back, because in giving others that choice I am picking myself”

@harrisoncooper8084

Ай бұрын

As someone who is NOT disabled, my two cents is this: Ricky conceded because he does not want to go back to a life of being ignored. Karnak states the worst part of Ricky’s life was being ignored by society, specifically his peers. When Mischa says that he is awesome in the afterlife, Ricky says that he was always awesome, but that no one would listen to him on earth. If anything, that feels the exact opposite of ableism as he is saying that nobody payed attention to him despite how cool he actually was. That ignorance can be completely separate from his disability considering we know he is capable of reading, writing, and drawing, meaning even when he would express himself in the ways he could, he was still ignored. I think Ricky doesn’t mind being disabled because it’s just part of his life. I am fine with him keeping his mobility accessories as it is never directly stated he lost his ability to walk after birth. On the other hand, he lost his ability to speak later in life, so it would make sense to me he would get this ability back after death as it would be part of that “ideal self” they all get to be. If you were born without an ability, the ideal version of yourself would not have that ability because you would not actually know what it is like to have it. I think they had Ricky lose his crutches(in this case) to allow for Alex Wyse to move easier on stage. I imagine the director made the decision not considering that it could offend members of the audience. I see how people are offended by Ricky’s character, but I believe that the show was not intended to have an ableist agenda. Just an ignorance as to how aspects of the character would affect the audiences. The interpretation that Ricky’s character is ableist, while valid, I feel is misattributing character choices and actions to being ableist. Again, I am not someone with a disability, and I am not expert. I’m providing what I hope is interpreted as a good faith argument as to how and why Ricky is portrayed as he is. If you disagree, I would like to hear why, and you probably can change my mind if you happen to know something I do not. If you actually read all of this, thank you for at least hearing me out.

Jane saying "I hear the anguish of the streets" could be that when she was decapitated and still had her senses, she could've heard the horror of the onlookers that were below her (below her feet) and shocked to see what had happened.

@celestedivine131

7 ай бұрын

The head is still alive for a few seconds, yes

I personally feel like Ricky not having a disability in his afterlife is pretty logical because the BODY has disabilities not the soul. After death there's no body just the soul so that's why it makes sense that he doesn't have disabilities anymore. Also, him being able to speak and walk establishes the fact that they all are actually dead.

@tabruc4186

3 ай бұрын

A lot of people with disabilities do take it as part of their identity, though, which a lot of representations of in media ignore and make it more of a 'tragedy/undeserved (or deserved if it happens to a villainous character at some point)' The idea of a character not having disabilities after death is kind of a lazy work around for what could have been done with the portrayal, though obviously there is a time crunch for each character to be able to express their stories. For example, though, if there were two characters with disabilities in the play and only Ricky was the one to be portrayed without them or vice versa because the characters view their disabilities differently and so their 'ideal of who they could have been' would reflect that might have been interesting, some disabled people would certainly want to be able to manifest as able-bodied, but it's not true for all people with disabilities or accurate that it wouldn't be inherent to them/to the point it might show up with their soul. If we had more disabled characters with a multitude of different portrayals, it wouldn't be so aggravating to constantly see the 'person is 'cured' from their disability' plot point, often entirely written by/from the perspective of currently able-bodied writers

@Exhausted905

Ай бұрын

The thing that I saw someone point out is that if it was simply just the soul and everybody didn’t have any physical ailments, Constance wouldn’t need glasses and Jane Doe would actually have a head and remember who she is. So it’s clear stuff that happens to the body carrie on over to the afterlife…unless you’re disabled

@voidfullheart

Ай бұрын

@@Exhausted905 i agree with you but, jane doe wouldnt remember who she is even if she does have a head, since karnak didnt only not read her fortuner, but also ride the cyclone is how mostly karnak sees things (not completely but still)

25:58 - 28:27 Also to go with the Jane represents death is how the others react to her: Ocean and Connie are the most scared of her and they represent denial and bargaining. Noel and Mischa are kind of indifferent to her and they represent anger and depression. And then Ricky who interacts with Jane the most and is nice to her quite quickly represents acceptance.

@oceanunknown

Жыл бұрын

That's so interesting! Thank you for bringing this to attention!

@kaitlinowens2714

Жыл бұрын

You’re welcome. Also once you think about there is some truth to Noel having a lament and Jane having a ballad. Noel is lamenting the fact that he’s not Monich (sorry can’t spell her name) and Jane is technically telling her story, just what she remembers of it.

@hauntedhoody2976

Жыл бұрын

@@kaitlinowens2714 (it’s monique) also i like this theory

@kaitlinowens2714

Жыл бұрын

Thank you

@fizzyizzypop1300

11 ай бұрын

In Jane’s song when she stands in front of the curtain her shadows form what looks like wings this could show that she’s an angel of death.

This is a really cool detail I remember someone spotted in a comment section for fall fair suite: When they all are looking at their “far from the city little itty bitty pretty home town” everyone is smiling, whereas mischa is frowning as he never grew up in uranium and clearly misses his home in Ukraine

@oceanunknown

Жыл бұрын

That is a very interesting detail! Thank you for bringing it up!

@DeathnoteBB

Жыл бұрын

God that makes his death even sadder. He just wanted to go back home Edit: Maybe that’s another reason he was head over heels with Thalia despite us never hearing anything concrete about her. She’s not necessarily a character as a person, but as an ideal that represents Ukraine.

@_se3_thru9h_9

Жыл бұрын

He might also not accept Uranium BECAUSE it’s name is Uranium, his mother did die of *Uranium* exposure.

@harley_bear1618

4 ай бұрын

@@_se3_thru9h_9THATS GOOD

This is just my opinion, but Ricky not having his disability in the afterlife is something that is kinda special to me. I've always had a theory that people with disabilities of any kind lose those disabilities in the afterlife, therefore they don't have to suffer anymore. Seeing how happy Ricky was as he was able to share his opinions and play so many instruments showed me that him conceding wasn't a waste, it was his way of accepting.(btw I'm neurodivergent and disabled)

@Pandemonioxo

Жыл бұрын

That was my read as well, when it came to the acceptance aspect I felt it unfair for her to call it a cop out, when I felt that it was the angle the actor was playing. It wasn’t that it wouldn’t be worth going back or he was insignificant, but he was expressing his autonomy, and was genuinely fulfilled in that moment and didnt feel the desire to live another life, but accepted he still had a full life and if anything the game allowed him to live a completely different life where his inner world was finally reflected outward, living out his cat bachelor fantasies

@sarahdragons861

Жыл бұрын

From a Christian perspective (sharing because the musical references Christianity) the Bible talks about how there is no pain or suffering in Heaven. ❤❤❤

@Alice-zy6gj

Жыл бұрын

yes in my personal opinion i see disabilities as a physical torment (as all people have to varying degrees) thats a by product of that persons place on the earth with no relation to their actual identity or soul so naturally that disability would be shed in the afterlife when all are equal and souls are just souls and Ricky conceding isnt him saying his life isnt valuable but just his selflessness he gained from his own experiences due to his disability

@calliopedollhouse259

Жыл бұрын

Treating a disability like it’s an awful thing that you can escape from in the afterlife is indeed ableist

@artyangy6370

Жыл бұрын

@@calliopedollhouse259 how is it ableist?

When it comes to Jane, I read/heard that she represents not only death in a physical sense, but also death in being forgotten, She fears the idea of not only remembering who she is, but that she will be forgotten as nobody who died in the cyclone incident while the rest of the cast would be remembered by the lives they lived. I could be wrong, but it's the one theory I somewhat agree with.

Actually, I don't see ricky not having his disability in limbo as something abelist, is more like "What would he do if he could speak and move freely?" In life he couldn't comunicate so now that he has to defend his life he's given the ability to sing and dance like the others. Also, thinking that Ricky giving up his chance to be brought back to life is abelist, is abelist.

I like how the characters are not in their stages of grief order, because someone can experience any stage of grief at any time

i'm not as severely disabled as ricky (though i am developmentally disabled) so i'm obviously not the best person to speak on this, but i actually quite liked ricky's character in the original version. i definitely agree that him losing the physical element of his disability is problematic, but i think him being no longer mute makes a lot of sense. the six kids all become closer to their truest selves throughout the musical, and it's clear that ricky is someone who has a lot to say. obviously ideally he would use aac to communicate instead of just magically becoming less disabled, but for the musical format i think it's the most practical. i really hate how in newer versions-even before removing the element of his disability entirely, as far as i know-they toned down ocean's ableist comments. i think the depiction of ableism in this show is actually surprisingly accurate to how disabled kids are often treated. like, the line "he's a real sweet kid, but his brains are mush" in what the world needs perfectly captures the way lots of disabled kids are bullied. it's not stealing lunch money or getting shoved in a locker; it's patronizing and infantilizing comments and laughing behind the person's back. or later, when karnak says "ricky was treated to the most appalling cruelty humanity can muster: complete indifference." that really struck a chord with me. and about his conceding, i really don't think that it makes him an "offensive caricature" or whatever. i think it shows his selfless nature and makes sense in the context of his song, "space age bachelor man." stripping ricky's character of everything that makes him him makes him more of a one-dimensional caricature than maybe possibly utilizing some offensive yet common tropes. also, i think it's pretty hypocritical that you preach listening to disabled voices, but you don't mention a single disabled person whose points you're echoing. you say "everything i'm about to say is from listening to disabled people online and their opinions," but you neglect to actually highlight these people's words and experience, or even credit them. back to the ricky conceding thing, i honestly don't like the idea that it's perpetuating a belief that disabled lives are worthless. ocean in the end refuses to vote for herself, but you wouldn't say it's perpetuating a belief that, i don't know, redheads' lives are worthless, would you? it was an action that fully makes sense for ricky's character, and i like that it gives him clear agency over his life. it's a significant part of him, yes, but ricky has character traits outside of his disability. not everything he does in the show needs to be taken as some sort of statement on disability. (also, i might as well mention this: taking off the fun makeup for the ricky segment was totally pointless. everyone in this show has serious elements to their character, but you only do it for his? it feels performative and othering.) (plus, your comment "ableism has no place in theatre, and in the whole world" is comically similar to ocean's "i got you into the choir, and you couldn't even talk or anything! accessibility for all ^_^" it feels remarkably shallow.)

@nicestpancake

Ай бұрын

I think an important part of the fact that Ricky _isn’t_ the only one who concedes. Constance does, also, because she realizes that she's fine with her outcome. She lived a happy life- she just needed death to feel okay with it. No, she didn’t make a big speech _about_ conceding, like Ocean or Ricky- but unlike Mischa and Noel, she doesn't say she'll vote for anyone other than Jane. She doesn’t say "i want to vote for myself" she says "i want to vote for Jane." Constance is so underappreciated :((( (As an aside, the yter who made this video isnt pinning comments from purportedly disabled people about how they don’t see it as ableist btb.)

@trinidadriquelme7932

28 күн бұрын

YES i hate how people always take anything ricky does/doesn't do as ableist when it has nothing to do with his disabilities, like no, it isnt ableist for him to concede because it has NOTHING to do with his disability, its just part of his character, it would be more ableist if he just went "my life is miserable because i have disabilities, i dont deserve to come back, i concede" ricky might be my fav character, his song being about (literally) fucking cats is such a good example on how disabled people can be more than just someone sweet and innocent who must be protected from the world

@Bunnek0VT

16 күн бұрын

THIS THIS THIS SAY IT LOUDER!! I'm disabled and use forearm crutches just like Ricky, which immediately made him one of my favorite characters from the whole Choir when I watched RTC for the first time. "Ricky was treated to the most appalling cruelty humanity can muster: complete indifference." hit really close to home for me as well. I have said time and time again that I personally don't believe that Ricky conceding is ableist, he didn't concede BECAUSE of his disability, he conceded because he finally got people to listen to him and live out his daydream, something that he wanted all along. (also he wouldn't have been able to live out his daydream on EARTH so the RTC "limbo" was the outlet he needed to do it.)

The juxtaposition between Noel’s Lament and The Ballad of Jane Doe is great! I definitely think both characters’ song titles are rooted in their desires. For Noel, he desires to Lament like the French sex worker in his song, while Jane Doe sings about her desire for a story she doesn’t have.

I personally dont have an issue with Ricky not being disabled in the afterlife. A degeneritive disease has to be incredibly painful and personally i would not want to live eternity in that pain and without the ability to speak. I've been in pain everyday of my life since I was 12 from my chronic illness, some days are better than others but there is always some pain there no matter what. I personally would be so upset if I got to an afterlife if there is one and I had to live eternity with this pain. It's so exhausting to live day by day in pain in life I could not imagine having to do that for eternity, to me it'd be a form of hell. Same goes for having to live eternity with my anxiety, panic attacks, depression, and BPD. The only comfort I find in death is that I won't have to deal with those things so if I did have to I'd be devastated. It really depends on the disability and the person what they would want for their eternity. But personally I don't feel at all like my chronic illness or my mental illnesses make me "me" or anything like that, if anything they hinder my ability to do the things I enjoy and make me lose interest or want to do those things as well. They have taken from me much much more than they have given me. And good riddance to them once I die hopefully. But i understand not everyone feels that way so i can only hope that death rids people of their disabilities for those who want that and doesnt alter those who dont.

I feel like Constance is kinda like testing. She's trying to accept Jane. She's scared, but tries to be friendly

@4_Ash_The_Therian_4

10 күн бұрын

OMORI PFP!!!! My friend and me are going as something and Mari for Halloween!

I dont think Ricky Conceding is Ableist because I think the reason he did it was because it is what a "space age bachelor man" would do. It is basically what Ocean does at the start but Ricky actually means it. I dont think him being disabled has anything to do with it.

I recently noticed how in all the songs which gave the ensemble their own little section Constance usually doesn’t get her own section which makes sugar cloud so much more special with how it all focuses on her

@fablespielt8092

3 ай бұрын

This confused me a bit, isnt Constance (and Rickie) the one singing (without the ensemble) in Miszas song?

off topic, i am not disabled, to me you handled talking about the “Ricky Problem” very well. even just putting the disclaimer was handled so well and with the care taht not a lot of people do!

@oceanunknown

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much!

@kemac3331

3 ай бұрын

Theatre people truly are the best people ever. So sweet and understanding and can deliver a point so well.. my daughter is in theatre 🎭 she will be starting college this fall and doing music and theatre… and the whole fine arts group from high school and college are truly amazing!!! They are a different breed of people. So loving, sweet, smart and kind. I’ve really fallen in love for the fine arts community. There’s such a pure innocence about them all and it’s such a breath of fresh air especially with the world we live in now ❤❤

9:14 I personally think that Ricky should only be able to dance and sing during his song, the song in which he takes on an entirely new persona that is the hero and can do anything. Before and after the song, he can use sign language like you mentioned, but he may have to be in a wheelchair rather than in crutches to keep his hands free. Still, I would be interested in seeing the choreography for a person using crutches or a wheelchair. You could get really creative!

@Imperials3nate

Жыл бұрын

That's exactly what I was thinking!

@1827crowley

11 ай бұрын

Exactly! If his disabilities don't cause him any physical pain, then why take them away? If his condition was causing him chronic pain then I would understand as heaven is described as a place where there is no pain or suffering, but other than the mention of him possibly having a short life span, it doesn't seem like he was in physical pain when he was alive

@yukezquizo

3 ай бұрын

Wasn't there a play where ricky was an actually disabled actor in a wheelchair and they adapted all of his choreographies? Or am i just going insane and making things up?

@yukezquizo

3 ай бұрын

​@@1827crowleythere really isn't any line in the show that states his disability caused any pain at all, and the crutches were probably so he could actually walk rather than it would hurt if he walked without them, so yeah

@Z0BIE_XP

Ай бұрын

@@yukezquizoI think there was, but idk the production

i love how in noels section its playing unholy but in like a music box form

@oceanunknown

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!!

@editz.by.otter.

Жыл бұрын

@@oceanunknown its a very precise detail that i love

@renthewerecat

Жыл бұрын

I also loved that

A concept: "And from the ground beneath my feet, I hear the anguish of the street" Jane's head is still somewhere down below, and a part of her with it. There's a connection there. She can still hear, from the earth, the people lamenting the choir. And the next line, "A choir never complete", could be her overhearing the mortuary workers' conversation about her.

@rickyzbiggestfan

Жыл бұрын

I love this so much. Especially the “a choir never complete” part because Ocean is a mezzo, not a soprano. Whilst in the choir competition she sings the highest part, its still Jane’s disembodied voice singing the highest notes in the opening song.

I really loved how you analyzed the characters along with going into how some of their traits link to their assigned stage of grief (ex: Ocean being quick to please while bargaining and Mischa’s rage in the form of sarcasm). It’s refreshing to see someone point out these subtle details :] The outfit and makeup also looked really awesome!

@oceanunknown

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much!

The blue lighting on Jane could also be a reference to livor mortis, or lividity, which is the settling of blood on a body in the ~8 hours after death, causing a blue-purple-black bruiselike stain over the lowest part(s) of the body.

I was so sad when jane doe’s “alive” name isn’t savanna

I don’t think Jane Doe has any place in the 5 stages of grief due to the fact she doesn’t know what to grieve

@goldndoodlz2192

3 ай бұрын

I mean, you can grieve NOT having something, right? She’s grieving her lack of a story, of herself. Of losing everything that she was in life and being forgotten.

I'm really happy to see how you treated Ricky's disability, it's a shame how it got removed, and we are all really sad about it of course. But also (this is just my humble opinion) I don't know if we should boycott every theatre production that doesn't hire a disabled actor for Ricky (we should however, boycott arena) mostly because some theatres maybe couldn't find a disabled actor to play him, and it gets tricky from here on, because we don't know who actually tries... I hope to see a reply and again, amazing video

@DeathnoteBB

Жыл бұрын

It’s way less difficult to find disabled actors than some people want to admit. The issue is theaters and productions usually don’t want to bother.

@jelly_lori

Жыл бұрын

@@DeathnoteBB makes sense...

@salvatorecastellitto1375

10 ай бұрын

@@DeathnoteBB It's not *just* that they don't want to bother, it's the way the show is written. It's not suitable for a genuinely disabled person to play because it's not written around a disability, and never was-even before they removed it from future shows. Especially now when most productions have an expectation of making Ricky's portion probably the most spectacled part of the show second to Ballad.

It's a shame they chose to remove Ricky's disability, rather than representing it better. On a different note, the usage of orgel/music box tracks in this video is very fitting 😸

@oceanunknown

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely! And thank you! I intentionally chose music box covers of songs that fit the characters

@lazybee8201

Жыл бұрын

Yea in my opinion they could have just not make Ricky mute at all since it’s a musical.

@katelovegood7961

Жыл бұрын

⁠@@lazybee8201 I think him being mute represents Ocean’s superficial goodness, as she’s the one who got him into the choir, even though he can’t sing.

@DeathnoteBB

Жыл бұрын

@@katelovegood7961 And then he rode the Cyclone. Thanks. /j

Huh, I interpreted Noel as Denial and Constance as Depression (Noel being in denial about his life, instead of his death. And Constance having low self-esteem from feeling bad about liking her town)

I get the complaint about ableism with Ricky's character, and also im not disabled. But im gonna say this, as someone with depression, adhd, autism, and being on the spectrum, i would give anything to have neurotypical brain even if it's just for one day, just to know what it's like at least. I would hate it if i went to heaven and found that my grandfather still has side effects from cancer, or my friends finger was still missing.

@galantina4086

8 ай бұрын

Honestly yea, when I die and there is a heaven I don't want my mom to still have chronic back pain, or my sister to be unable to pick up anything heavier than carrying full grocery bag w/out feeling pain.

@Rhodeias_

4 ай бұрын

The trope I guess does feel iffy but huh??? When I die if I still have all of my mental issues I’m haunting somebody. That’s horrible.

In the song Talia, the video of talia is cast on Jane/Penny. I have heard theories that it's because Jane, not really having memories or a soul, the image of other people is projected onto her, almost like some type of blank canvas. Also, in, This song is Awesome, you can see Jane and Ricky dancing with each other, and that was my favorite scene ever 🥺🥺

HOW DID I NOT REALIZED UNHOLY WAS PLAYING WHEN YOU WHERE TALKING ABOUT NOEL????

I love the use of 'Attack of the Killer Queen' during oceans' section lmao

@ka.BLAMM0

Жыл бұрын

THATS WHY IT SOUNDED SO FAMILIAR

@Terumimi

Жыл бұрын

Im pretty sure its actually smart race, not attack of the killer queen!

@oceanunknown

7 ай бұрын

@@Terumimi You would be correct! However I understand the confusion because the motif of Smart Race is used in attack of the killer queen

I definitely get where you’re coming from with Ricky, but I feel like there’s some nuance added since his disorder was degenerative- he wasn’t always like this, so it makes some sense to me that he might get some of the abilities he lost over time back in the afterlife. Also, I feel like he conceded because he’s genuinely a nice guy instead of it being because all fictional disabled people are passive or whatever- it’s what made the most sense for the character.

16:35 i always interpreted the house music of this section as a manifestation of mischa's rage after slowly realizing he´ll never see talia again

As an old psychology student. I approve this is one of the best analysis video.

@oceanunknown

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much!!

@pivotmaster8510

Жыл бұрын

@@oceanunknown And I want to add a theory. Karnak can be testing in the 7 stage of grief theory.

@DeathnoteBB

Жыл бұрын

@@pivotmaster8510 Wait then whats the other one? Is Jane whatever it is? Edit: Oh it was explained in the video, sorry 😂

Having Ricky communicate via ASL with a disembodied voice doing the songs would have been super cool, and be very clear with the supernatural elements

Ricky is one of my favorite characters, its so sad to hear the writers have given up on his disability instead of even making the attempt to write it better. I feel like removing it removes any power behind Ricky's motive and song; and honestly makes it kinda creepy. I don't mind the fact that he can move and speak after he dies, the soul itself isn't necessarily disabled, but it also depends on what the director says and what actor chooses to do. This could very well be a decision the actor made for the character in his interpretation of how this afterlife works. (I'm not too deep in the fandom so let me know if I miss information relating to my comment)

When watching, my ears would randomly click onto background music and during Jane's analysis my ears clicked on and i SCREAMED when i realised Mary's theme 'Puppet' from ib was playing /pos

@kugiekizuchi.

Жыл бұрын

OH MY GOD I KNEW I RECOGNIZED IT

@DeathnoteBB

Жыл бұрын

Omg I haven’t seen Ib in so long

I also found it interesting that at the end of this song is awesome, the final lyrics is Mischa talking about this girl he sees in a club (or something like that) whilst in the backround you can hear the thingie at the beginning of talia playing (sorry if this sucks I honestly just find it interesting 😭) and he ends it of with shawty as a way to play of his sadness.

Thank you so much for making this video! I recently watched a slime tutorial of ride the cyclone and loved it overall, but absolutely despised how they immediately got rid of Ricky's disability. Thank you for respectfully discussing the ableist tropes perpetuated by this show. You earned yourself a new subscriber and I hope you have a lovely day!

@oceanunknown

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much! I hope you have a lovely day too!

Personally, I always saw it as Ricky knowing that he isn’t going to live long and making peace with it so that it is easier to pass on. Thus, he embraces everything in life that he can experience and enjoy despite his disability. I also take his song as him giving us a glimpse into his vivid imagination. I never really took it as ablism and always took it as him being able to enjoy life more than others. As for his speech struggles, I like to see it as even though he struggles to speak, he is often informed by his classmates to the point where their ignorant of him being able to communicate at all. A price of evidence of this is how he mentions that no one ever listened to him on earth. This is why I love Ricky!

Thank you for bringing up the stuff relating to Ricky. I believe it is super important for a show to have disabled actors representing disabled characters. I’m Autistic myself so it’s obviously very different from the kind of ailments Ricky had, but I’m still thankful for you giving that disclaimer nonetheless. And I personally don’t feel like the creators of Ride the Cyclone intended for any kind of Ableist message. I viewed it more as Ricky’s soul being free of those ailments because y’know, he’s a ghost at that point. Again, totally agree on having him still have crutches and whatnot (and I’m not really great at phrasing so I’m sorry if I didn’t say anything right). What I’m getting at is that I don’t think they meant anything bad by Ricky not having any of his physical ailments in the afterlife. I kinda get it from my mother in the whole, wanting to see the good in any kind of situation thing. Could be optimism or could be us just being naive. Also, what would Karnak represent in this story? I feel like Karnak is some sort of a Ferryman for the Choir since, even though yeah he’s giving one of them a chance to return to the land of the living, he’s still kind of escorting them to the afterlife. (Also the people who removed the stuff about his disability from the script and the theater that fired the disable actor on the other hand can all go fuck themselves with a chainsaw)

I also think how Jane moves is like how her body would move after it was headless. If she were standing her body would take jerky steps in shock of losing her head.

little fun fact here. The name Jane Doe is used for unidentified bodies,. (Ones they can't identify the name of) Jane is used for "female" unidentified bodies (people with a uterus, that's how they decide these. If you're unresponsive they're gonna go off of what they see they won't wait for you to wake up to ask you your gender. For example I'm nonbinary, but I'd be a Jane Doe because I bleed once every. fcking. month. every. month.) For "Male" unidentified bodies, it's"John Doe." A friend of mine didn't know this until they watched Ride the Cyclone and asked me why the name Jane Doe was so familiar.

@oceanunknown

Жыл бұрын

Yes I knew about that! Also the Autopsy of Jane Doe is a very popular movie which could be another reason why the name is familiar

am I the only one that realized that in the background is Unholy and Bloody Mary in like a music box style ???

I have one little thought that popped into my ride during the Jane Doe explanation. What if she's greif in general????? I was hearing all the stages throughout the explanation so I was just thinking

@chickenbigstrips8267

Жыл бұрын

I wait, I just finished it my bad

its so funny how noel wanted a man to drive him to drink and mischa basically fulfilled that role

As a Danny Gonzalez fan and a theater fan, you cannot understand how hard I laughed at that segment.

In regards to Ricky... The teens who died on the ride ended up in Limbo. I'm not really sure if that counts as the same thing as "Heaven", but I believe it's similar to a ghost claiming to be having a heart attack from a jumpscare, only to realize "Hey, my heart stopped about 15 months ago, why am I complaining?"

Not at all the point of the video but the Ib music over Jane's section hits so well. So happy to hear it. It fits so well no wonder I love her so much .... I am only just now as I'm writing this realizing what my profile picture is omg

To my understanding, Ricky's disability was removed in favor of his silence being trauma-related. I think that this still offers representation for those with disability. It's all too plausible for someone to come across a person who is so afflicted by PTSD that they cannot speak and for their first instinct to be "whats the deal with this guy, he wont even talk to me. What a dick." I know that it may feel like a cheap cop-out but I also think that it gives representation to disabilities in a whole different way.

@DeathnoteBB

Жыл бұрын

I don’t know about the mutism, but I think a major part of the issue is them throwing off the physical disability. It’s a common but disliked trope that when a disabled person is in a supernatural world, they’re “cured”. But that leaves only abled characters, which (along with the whole being forcibly cured issue) makes the disabled character not much more than a token. Something to point at and go “See! We had him in assistive devices and said he was disabled! Now we can say we have a disabled character without having a disabled character!” It’s a cop-out. Additionally, one can’t even claim “Well everyone else probably had their issues cured too, if they had any!” because Constance still has her glasses.

wait isnt lego land a prequal and penny lamb is her acual name?

@oceanunknown

Жыл бұрын

Yes. The events of Legoland happen before Ride the Cyclone, however I worded it that way in the video because Legoland was released after Ride the Cyclone. Hope that clears some things up!

@perkaliciouss

Жыл бұрын

@@oceanunknown legoland actually takes place in an alternate universe to ride the cyclone! one almost identical except that the st. cassian chamber choir never existed and the roller coaster disaster never happened. emily rohm (jane doe actor 2015-2019) reported in a tiktok that the directors believed in the idea of a "whole new life" for penny rather than giving her the life she had back because nobody knows (not even the writers of the show). legoland as a play actually did debut before cyclone though, having it's first show in 2006 while ride the cyclone first performed in 2009.

@oceanunknown

Жыл бұрын

@@perkaliciouss Thank you for the information! it helps a lot!

this is really cool and thank you for making a video about this!! ive been waiting for one LMAO. i really like that you brung up that bargaining as a stage of grief can also mean believing that if you had done something differently then the events that caused you to be grieving would have never occurred because i actually believe that fits oceans character. in the old version of fall fair suite during their run in chicago the original line about the rickety cart was "had a strange feeling from the start, why did i get into that rickety cart? it did not feel safe at all." which tells us that ocean does feel like she had more knowledge of the roller coaster being unstable and likely to malfunction and feels guilt for it/like she was responsible for the choir being killed. sorry for bombarding your comment section btw lol. RTC is my special interest and im geeking out right now

@oceanunknown

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much!!

I always interpreted "time eats all his children in the end" as like all living things being the product of time, and all having to succumb to it when they eventually die

Hey, I’m not disabled, but I think you did well to talk about Ricky’s casting and the disability issues. However, it was what made me the most happy about watching this play, seeing Ricky ‘getting free of earthly burden’. My family is religious and believes that *physical* disabilities do follow after death, but that that it weighs one down less and less.

I'm not physically disabled but i really want to play ricky potts in a production of ride the cyclone (though i am autistic) and i would definately make some inclusive changes. personally i enjoyed the fact he conceids since immediately it made me see into the theory of him representing acceptance from that action, as well as giving jane the savanna name in his "brain's flash-fire sale where everything must go". i also enjoy him being able to speak, since i feel like his voice sounds wobbly and uncertain as if he's speaking for the first time in years. But i also love the idea of a disembodied voice being his voice instead, and his mouth not moving. But maybe not asl as he never wouldve learned it because of his parents. And i definately think he wouldve been better represented if he kept the crutches for the whole production excluding his song, which is a change i'd make if i played him. And also i think he conceids for another reason, because "ever since he was six he knew he wasnt long for the world", and he wants to give the others a chance at a long life instead of the few years he wouldve been expected to have. He would both get to live forever in the afterlife, negating his short life expectancy he otherwise wouldve had had he won, while one of his friends simultainiously gets a long life as well.

is it just me or do yall also hear the tune of "Space Oddity" playing in the background music while they were talking about Ricky the "Space age bachelor man"

Great video!! I really liked this theory and I think Jane Doe being death or all the stages of grief is basically the same, but I don't know about shock... Also when I was watching and Ricky throwed his aids away I was horrified, and the same with his whole backstory and how his parents but especially how he never learned sign language... Wtf??? I didn't expect you to mention it in this video but you said it perfectly! Also I wonder how they even thought about making him abled since his whole story is basically about not being heard or understood by anyone, even the choir kids... Also I just have to say I disagree about Ocean being a bad person, and I think seeing her as that is a very "good and evil" kind of view on her character

@oceanunknown

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much! Also my view on Ocean has changed a bit, I don't think she's necessarily a bad person and her growth in the show is evident. However the way she goes about things (ex: her infantilizing Ricky and everything she says during "what the world needs" about the choir) aren't the best and understandably leave poor tastes in many people's mouths

@yararinamiil

Жыл бұрын

@@oceanunknown edit: Sorry for such a long text akhsbsjfk You know, "What The World Needs" was the only song I had already heard before watching the whole thing and I expected her to be a very arrogant girl and very extra... But when I watched it I saw a completely different person, and when she sings and dances that song she seems very insecure to me, I really don't think she wanted to say all that but she thought her life and like you said in the video, her whole meaning was at play (I also think it comes down to survival instincts more than thinking there would be no consequences). Compared to the others I don't think her song shows her "true self" and it is much less extravagant as a performance while others had full costumes and especial effects. Of course she said horrible things but I don't think that makes her a bad person, just a regular person who is flawed like everyone. There's other things like her being the only to complain about only one person being saved, and obviously the fact that she was able to learn to listen to her friends and come to terms with her death Ok just one little thing I am autistic and I know that I was really annoying when I was younger because I didn't know any better and no one tells you what is annoying or weird to do or not, everyone expects you to naturally know like they do even though social norms are often bizarre... So in a way I sympathize with her because she's young and clearly doesn't know better from what she had to learn herself since her parents seem not to be there for her that much... Yes it's a bit of projecting but I really can't see her as bad person because she seems to try to improve and be better

I also noticed the Greek mythology part of Jane doe song. I thought it was pretty neat

As somebody who just got into the Ride the cyclone hype a bit late cause my friend was asking me to watch it so much, I've gotta say its quite the musical! I saw somebody point out when Jane asked constance to "Brush her dolls hair" she probably meant HER hair seeing as her head is replaced with the dolls, It sounds wholesome to think about despite what they had went through. Great video by the way!(+new subscriber), i don't know much but it was such an awesome musical and im glad my friend introduced me to it.

I originally interpreted Jane doe as revenge actually. In a way, she gets revenge on death as she gets a second change.

I really loved how you addressed Ricky in this. My first reaction watching RTC as a mobility aid user when Ricky threw away his crutches was being pissed off. Even ignoring all the things about how treating disabilities as a burden is ableist, it means that the role is inaccessible for many disabled people to play, and it means you get very little time seeing him use mobility aids, and considering the lack of disabled representation in theatre, it’s just a bit shitty. Also it rubbed me the wrong way that when Ricky went on his tangent about chaos theory and could understand all the science he then said ‘level up’, because it implies that he was stupid before they took his disabilities away, and considering one of the major things in disability liberation movements right now is ‘assume competence’ for non-verbal people, it kinda pissed me off. And when Ocean says “he’ll never learn to read”, it implies that he didn’t know how before they died. I also think that having him use sign language with his parents in that scene would’ve at least validated sign language users watching instead of making them feel mocked, and also would show that non-speaking people can live fulfilling lives and make connections and communicate. The problem with having one of the few disabled characters in theatre (and i can think of a grand total of 4 as a massive theatre nerd), is that you cannot be perpetuating negative stereotypes or making the role inaccessible to disabled people. Also I personally wouldn’t want my disabilities to be taken away when I die, and I am not here for people to reply to saying “but disabilities cause suffering”.

this is a pretty good video from what I can tell, but I highly recommend that you tone down the background music. It was very bad sensory wise, at least for me, and I could only get about eight minutes in before it became unbearable, which is upsetting, because this is a topic I’m really interested in and would like to have heard a lot more about.

@oceanunknown

Жыл бұрын

I'm so sorry! I will definitely work on that in the future!

@kermitkitty71

Жыл бұрын

@@oceanunknown that’s alright, thank you for being considerate!!

I love how, in the background, the song unholy is played but like a music box

Hi! I just got into this fandom a couple months ago٫ I really enjoyed this video! I have been itching for some new RTC content. And when I saw your video I had to click. I love this theory and it makes since. I love the 2016 version the most٫ when I see the actors together thats what I vision RTC as. My absolute favorite character is either Ocean or Jane! Did you know that the original song for Ocean sounds much worse (in the way she describes her friends) You can find her old song "play to win" on KZread if you just search the song title and "2011" If you think about it the current Ocean is much ruder than the old one. I also love Oceans childish movement! Tiff really brought her to life. Also I really like your voice! Its something I could fall asleep to because of how narrative you sound. ⚫️👄⚫️✋

@oceanunknown

4 ай бұрын

Thank you so much! I do know about play to win and how bad it is 😭

The fact you were playing Smart Race during Ocean's portion is literally everything to me

This video is so good!!! Your makeup is amazing and all you said was so interesting!

@oceanunknown

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much!!

The song choices in the background are perfect. Berdly for Ocean... Chefs kiss

Why would you say that Ricky was mistreated by the choir? When he conceded he did that because during his song he acted like "a d*ck" and other members even felt badly for that. The fact that he conceded is not related in the slightest to his disabilities. Also if I remember right (correct me if I'm wrong) the machine said that those we see in the show are not the choir members but rather representations of how they would have preferred to be

Loved the video!! I thought you discussed the disability representation matter really well, and I'm glad that you put it in the video. I recently became a fan of the musical, but I was likewise appalled at how they immediately got rid of his disability as soon as he died. I would have loved to see some commentary on how those with disabilities are not broken, and therefore do not need to change in the afterlife instead. I agree, having him keep his disability could have been really powerful, and I hope the writers will make the change to having him be disabled in some capacity for the entirety of the show. Other than that, I have a theory about Jane Doe. I believe that she represents life itself and the fortune teller represents death. The fortune teller can tell people when and where they will die, and who would know that better than death himself? Alongside that, it's weird to think about, but we're all technically a "Jane Doe" until someone else gives us a name at our birth, and this is sort of what happens to Jane turned Penny at the end of the show. She also uses her song to describe her desire to find out who she is, why horrible things have happened to her, and how she feels like nothing she did ended up mattering in the end because no one remembered her. These are ideas that many people struggle with throughout their lives, and I think that she encapsulates the idea of finding the "why?" or meaning of life really well. She is also the one gifted their life at the end of the show, and I think it might be an interesting idea that she could be an entity (I'm not terribly familiar with Greek or Roman mythology, or other religions of the sort so I'd love to call the entity "Life," I hope that's okay). What if Life is there to help those who have passed process their grief and eventually find acceptance? It's clear that several characters (particularly Ocean) are not very kind and compassionate to others, so what if she has come to the group after their final moments to give the characters who need it a chance to redeem themselves and earn a place in heaven (or some equivalent of heaven)? My theory likely has a lot of plot holes, but hopefully it at least makes sense, and again, thank you for making this video! Side note for clarification: I'm not saying that Noel or Ricky wouldn't have already been on track to go to heaven. We don't slut shame or look down on those with disabilities in this household, and let's be honest, they're some of the best characters in the whole show (and way more so if writers ever put Ricky's disability back in, and for the entirety of the show this time.) ❤

i really enjoyed this video n we have a lot of the same interests i can't wait to binge watch ur channel

I was so upset when I read the script and that was the reason why Ricky never talked??? Like wtf the original was far better than this shit

Love the video but WHY IS UNHOLY PLAYING IN THE BACK 😭😭😭

Another things that adds to the theory is that Jane Doe normally scares Constance, making it more obvious that they are death and denial respectively.

this whole time i thought karnak was saying "in time" not "in town"

31:52 Hooray! Another mythology nerd! I noticed that reference as well!

I love all the regrences but the one that I just realized after watching for the 100th time was the Alice in Wonderland. In the beginning song, Noel sung that "the bunny ran away and disappeared", suggested that they were entering Wonderland but throughout all the songs they would describe life as a never ending dream. So it would either be saying that life is closer to wonderland and that death was merely waking them up or the other way around. Lol probably not it but I thought it was an intresting thing to shoot out!

love that "holy" is playing during Noel's part lol

One of my favorite parts is that she refers to her male counterpart John Doe

10:07 Is that a music box rendition of that “At the body shop doing something unholy” song?!

unholy being played lowkey in the background is slaying me

Removing Ricky’s disability feels more ableist than him having it. As Ricky is written to have a DEGENERATIVE disability it makes sense that he no longer has it in the afterlife. As someone with a degenerative disability but not as severe as Ricky’s from what is shown. I can tell you that some days are equivalent to suffering. If I had to suffer from my disability for all eternity in the afterlife I’d want to fight god. The thing people don’t understand about degenerative disabilities is we still remember when we weren’t struggling as hard as we are now. If you don’t believe me, ask any older person with something like arthritis and they’ll tell how they remember how life used to be without the pain. But this is not for every disability, but because Ricky’s disability is specifically said to be DEGENERATIVE I fully understand why he wouldn’t have it in the afterlife

Me, when Mischa takes out alcohol: Where-where'd you get that from? Do you just - what - randomly carry it around with you?

@zomzomino

18 күн бұрын

It's a warehouse of an abandoned carnival. Someone is bound to leave something behind

She can represent anger because anger isn't always this big loud thing it can be cold hard resentment which to me could be like half the song especially after her pleading "OH why lord this is how I die lord."

@ghostlyexe

5 ай бұрын

I think she doesn’t fully fit in any of them, because she doesn’t know what or how to grieve about herself. All of the stages of grief are represented in her song in different lines; denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance right at the end

Finally watched Ride the Cyclone so now I can watch this!

big props for the Deltarune and Omori music

@oceanunknown

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!! Happy ppl noticed it

The funniest thing for me is in Noel's section having a version of of Unholy!!! Haha!!! Your a great content creator!!!

I gotta say I think we've got backward the roles of Constance and Ricky since she is the one whom honestly admits to her feelings and lived experiences and confronts them face on, while he recounts tales from the fantastic, imaginary world he created in order to escape his limitations in life. I know it adds to the conlfictive ableism angle of the show, but it does feel more like denial to me, denial of his true life over an anthem for the acceptance of what it actually was.

I absolutely love "unholy" playing in the backround 13:00

I agree that Jane doe could also resemble all of the stages put together in one she is angry that no knows who she is for example. Also her high notes in her song are supposed to be her screams of when she is being decapitated so that can resemble acceptance as well.

Great video

@oceanunknown

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

With acceptance, when you deal with the death of things that were bad to you/dealing with the grief put you in a dark place - like a relationship that didn't go the way you planned it - when it's over you understand truely how your current self is a much better one then what it was before. Stronger and free. Ricki is feeling redempted. If we ignore the absolute total ablism here, I believe this is what was intended.

Did anyone else notice that at one point in the video a music box version of Unholy was playing???

I'm a year late but I heard that omori music at 25:44 no omori refrences can escape me

LOVE THE JANE COSPLAY

ride the cyclone feels a lot like carnival of souls

Is the piano in the background the song ”my time”?

another reason Jane might represent death- alot of jane doe’s song features the ‘dies irae’, a common musical theme that means death. if you listen to the lyrics you’ll hear the dies irae pattern over and over, especially jn the second half of the song.

Your opinion regarding the "Ricky problem" is entirely unfounded. Ricky's transition from disability to non-disability in the afterlife aligns seamlessly with his transformative "level up" demeanor, enabling him to engage and move unrestricted. Moreover, standard protocol in theatrical productions entails the selection of the most qualified candidate for a given role. If a candidate surpasses a disabled candidate in qualifications, the reason behind this choice should be evident. Lastly, no discernible "stereotypes" are attributed to his persona. His peers perceive him as "cool in the afterlife" prompting his revelation that his identity remained in the realm of the living. His portrayal was carefully crafted to infuse a sense of shared humanity into the lives of disabled individuals within a society where we don't treat people like people. Anyone who interprets Ricky's character as offensive is being pessimistic. They're on a quest to discover reasons for anger.

10:10 - 13:52 sounds like “unholy” in the background😂