Ethos, Pathos, Logos and d'Artagnan.

@Pfsif

7 жыл бұрын

One for all and all for one bitches.

@lindybeige

7 жыл бұрын

I very nearly did that gag. I wish I had, now.

@Warmaka

7 жыл бұрын

AND I'M JAVERT!

@jim4671

7 жыл бұрын

That is Fucking Hilarious!

@Lasermensch

7 жыл бұрын

I really think it better that you didn't do that "joke", since it makes the whole subject rather silly.

33 minutes of Lloyd talking about rhetoric? What could possibly be more fun?!

@baley7

7 жыл бұрын

The Blagger Of Lebanon nothing comes to mind, wait is that a rhetoric question?

@80ki68

7 жыл бұрын

Preciselyrandom I... I think.

@Healermain15

7 жыл бұрын

Lindy talking for 2 hours about the Roman military-political system?

@davecrupel2817

7 жыл бұрын

The Blagger Of Lebanon 34 minutes of Lloyd talking about rhetoric :D

@80ki68

7 жыл бұрын

Daniel Cannata Dammit!

17:30 "and the rich guy gives an amazing speech written for him by a professional speech giver who used to be a lawyer" I'm in tears. Such a classic

This man is a great teacher. Regardless of conscious manipulation (rhetoric) or simple natural talent.

@yorkshiregrump5248

4 жыл бұрын

Certainly he's an engaging, amusing speaker, even if one wonders about the occasional interpretation.

Lloyd, Mr. Beige, You know by now that you could make a 2 hour video on ancient Mesopotamian basket weaving and I would watch it at least twice.

@ThatZommy

7 жыл бұрын

I genuinely want to see this.

@Toratchi888

7 жыл бұрын

Only if it's UNDERWATER basket-weaving. I hear that's what separates the real weavers from the amateurs and gets you a degree.

@bucyrus5000

7 жыл бұрын

Couples basket weaving might be nice. That is a video of Lloyd and Mrs. Beige doing Mesopotamian basket weaving together...not Lloyd weaving baskets made of couples.

@trentonnewman9683

7 жыл бұрын

Toratchi888 Yeah I took that at camp and I got the merit badge I didn't take that at school so I can't get the degree. 😢

@moosemaimer

7 жыл бұрын

Only slightly off-topic but look up a channel called Primitive Technology. You will never spend so much time watching a guy in shorts alone in the woods not say anything and be enthralled the whole time.

Me: I should stuy for my english oral exam! *this video pops up* Me: Well, he's a brit, that should do it

@frederik7338

7 жыл бұрын

and you actually learned some Rhetorics which are useful in your exam

@janus2773

6 жыл бұрын

so how did your exam go? :)

I've been in favour for a long time of teaching children in schools to interpret statistics properly and to dismantle bad arguments and reason logically (and most importantly recognise fallacious arguments). Mostly for the political reasons. Because you can't have a healthy democracy where the people elected actually represent people's best interests if people are not sufficiently educated to figure out what those interests are or who's representing them. And if the politicians aren't incentivised to defend themselves through logic, but instead to vaccuous arguments and platitudes. Because that's part of the problem. They work so politicians use them. Let's put a bigger focus on this in education and make them not work anymore. Only then will they stop using them and only then does democracy have a chance of rising above people's worst instincts and actually working towards the good of all.

@ripbeni6198

5 жыл бұрын

I know more about my political oppositional parties' ideology (and it isn't an exhaustive amount) than my friends that support them. Nobody even puts in the time to read their own manifesti, they literally can't even be bothered to huff their own farts let alone anothers'.

@DieselpunkMachine

4 жыл бұрын

Isn't it proven by some (3 or 4) public educated generations that one can't achieve medium standards needed to discern very bad rhetorics? Who's in charge? - Stupid. Don't know, are you allowed to say this in free speech Britain.

@rooseveltbrentwood9654

4 жыл бұрын

my high school required you to take rhetoric and latin. it was a charter school in colorado. i wish i could have stayed there.

@grizzlygrizzle

4 жыл бұрын

Postmodernism is the biggest enemy of reason. The notion that there's no such thing as objective truth wipes out the possibility for truth, and the companion notion that all truth is subjective is too often in practice turned around into the notion that all my subjective feelings and inclinations are general truths. -- Humans may not be able to create absolute truths, but however imperfect our truths are, some are better, in a practical sense, than others, because they work better in describing realities more or less accurately, in ways that are useful for other people. -- Imagine a world without truth. This is the world of postmodernists, and for postmodernists, the only function of dialogue is to manipulate other people. What else is left, if there's no truth to pursue, refine, or communicate? -- Feminist theory, critical race theory, queer theory, and recent Marxist theory are heavily influenced by postmodernism, and it should come as no surprise that the "research" that spews forth from them is rarely true or valuable.

@yorkshiregrump5248

4 жыл бұрын

Perhaps make it compulsory for all secondary school kids to read "How to lie with statistics", though perhaps it could have more modern examples. Most people have no idea about variability in populations. When they leave school they forget about standard deviation and variance, and all those little things that tell you how reliable the figures are that people (e.g. politicians) throw at you.

Lloyd with your elegant voice and debonair demeanor, you'd make a great teacher of rhetoric for the Great Courses Plus. *(That was flattery btw- it's an appeal to an emotion)*

If you still dont really grasp what rhetoric is, I'll put it in an extremely simple way. in This world, it is called "Rhetoric" In Skyrim, it is called "Speechcraft" ..... You're welcome.

@frederik7338

7 жыл бұрын

and In D&D is a mixture of Persusasion and deception (depending on your goals and tactics) :P

@thesilentavenger

7 жыл бұрын

Daniel Cannata I've heard of you and your honeyed words

@michaelkenner3289

7 жыл бұрын

Citizen, you have my ear.

@poilboiler

7 жыл бұрын

And for my final argument: Fus Roh Dah!

@xkopp375

7 жыл бұрын

In other words, words have meaning. Therefore words have power...

My chemistry teacher did the silence thing all the time when we were in our teenage years - and accordingly annoying, especially paired with chemicals and Bunsenburners - and it worked better than every other method teachers tried. I am convinced that it has made an impression on all of us.

@tofuchicken2

7 жыл бұрын

if you did that in my multicultural high school kids would jsut continue to talk over you.

Can we just appreciate Lindy does these videos in one take?

@fransmars1645

10 ай бұрын

How do you know it was one take? We may have been watching take 7...

@thedisintegrador

5 ай бұрын

@@fransmars1645 yeah whatever, but even if, it's still a 33 minute video. Even if it was his 7th take, it might be even more impressive what kind of effort he puts into making these. Not to mention that he said somewhere that he doesn't do multiple takes, I think at least

As an american I had a teacher that taught almost exclusively rhetoric in my high school English class. It isn't the standard here for that to happen but I specifically remember how much fun the class actually was because of it. We'd go through controversial speeches and articles and every sentence someone would shout out a rhetorical device used, and then we would apply the concepts learned to a class debate about the topic. Breaking down weak arguments and discovering ways of using rhetoric to further our own was incredibly useful and enjoyable, and I still use what I learned from that one class today. Great vid as always Lindy!

Me: I'm only watching this if it's sponsored by The Great Courses Plus. "...this video which has been sponsored by The Great Courses Plus." Gets popcorn

@Beremor

7 жыл бұрын

... You honestly choose not to watch videos if they are not sponsored? This is the very first time I read something remotely like this, be it serious or in jest. Have a lovely day!

@alfredokaefer7263

7 жыл бұрын

surely he jests

@ilhamabdulhakim9554

7 жыл бұрын

how bout Audible?

I may be imagining things, but isn't It an amzing coincidence that as soon as education started being open to the lower clases rethoric disapeared from school curriculums.

@sirderam1

5 жыл бұрын

Is that a rhetorical question?

@obfuscated3090

5 жыл бұрын

@@showmemoviesnow They don't WANT to, and may eat you if you prod them towards the light. Never underestimate the vicious stupidity of the common man.

@leafster1337

5 жыл бұрын

showmemoviesnow of course

@richardmycroft5336

4 жыл бұрын

What an incredibly classist statement on your part. A serious reason for why the UK is no longer an empire but more like a failing bank. Where they have lots of upper crust types behaving dishonestly, but at least they have the proper accent, right?

4 жыл бұрын

[citation needed] aka: ¿Where did you get that information from?

After Cicero spoke, the people remarked how well he spoke, when Demosthenes spoke, the people said "Let us march".

@evannesbitt7852

5 жыл бұрын

The only people really swayed by that ignoramus, Cicero were his financial backers of his own Patrician class

@narakagati5872

5 жыл бұрын

@@evannesbitt7852 silence pleb

@fernhausluv44

3 жыл бұрын

@@narakagati5872 *jazz music stops*

@JarthenGreenmeadow

3 жыл бұрын

@@narakagati5872 fuk u

@RabbiHerschel

2 жыл бұрын

Death to tyrants! Long live the Republic! Ave Cicero! My first introduction to Cicero was his spirited defense of the right of the citizen to bear military arms. "And indeed, gentlemen, there exists a law, not written down anywhere but inborn in our hearts; a law which comes to us not by training or custom or reading but by derivation and absorption and adoption from nature itself; a law which has come to us not from theory but from practice, not by instruction but by natural intuition. I refer to the law which lays it down that, if our lives are endangered by plots or violence or armed robbers or enemies, any and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right."

11:05 Holy shit, when you went quiet you got my attention opposed to your shouting before it... Thats crazy. Next time I am presenting something I'll be sure to use that trick.

@sherrisilver5103

4 жыл бұрын

A magician taught Hitler the same technique, it's easiest to notice in his first speech to a rabid Nazi audience right after he was elected Chancellor. It's eerie how well it works.

@bradivany7008

2 жыл бұрын

gets me no matter how many times i've seen this. i'm already anticipating the point but i have to look up to see if my phone froze or something. just to see lindy cradling patiently. sly bugger.

I'm a software engineeer. I spend most of my day writing code. Still; rhetoric is possibly the best course I've ever taken. I had no idea it was such an amazing subject before I started. I think it should be required in high school. I took "speech" instead because it's what my school required. It's night-and-day different from a proper schooling in rhetoric. I think requiring rhetoric lessons would go a long way towards making Internet discourse a better experience. I've been pushing the fine folks at Crash Course to do CC Rhetoric for the past year now. It might just happen.

@techmage89

7 жыл бұрын

verdatum Engineering is, after all, about 10% coming up with good solutions and 90% persuading people you've come up with good solutions...

@verdatum

7 жыл бұрын

In essence, I agree. But nah, on the lower rungs, it's more like 70/30 solutions-to-convincing. It's not until your superiors are not themselves engineers that you really need to weave a story. Of course, there are exceptions, usually involving your superiors being really crummy engineers. But rhetoric absolutely is a huge help in securing that job in the first place. And that is indeed a critical skill in the realm. Being good in interviews is a valuable skill that lots of software people aren't so hot at. And in helping with interviews myself, a lot of it involves reminding yourself how bad many very talented software people can be in interviews. If it turns out they write good readable code, then I'm happy. Being able to explain why their code is good is just icing on the cake.

@elizabethkelley5260

6 жыл бұрын

Very interesting! I'm actually learning something! Your discourse is not only long but also informative. I'm almost capable of getting past the incessant blabbering. Thank you!

@Stettafire

6 жыл бұрын

I'm also a software engineer. However, in my case my bosses typically know the area better than I do, in which case all my employer is interested in is me just doing as I'm told. However, when I was freelancing and in job interviews etc, the power of speech is vital! It is very helpful indeed.

@Ezyasnos

5 жыл бұрын

Never forget you're doing informatics. It's all about knowing what you're doing, and knowledge is formed by language,. Rethorics is one approach to this, but there are more, just as valuable.

We, here in Greece, are taught the most basic of rhetoric in school, so as to right the most convincing essay. Sometimes there are task where we have to actually come up with false, yet seeming like true, arguements. Σοφίσματα

@senorlopez1412

4 жыл бұрын

*write

@midshipman8654

4 жыл бұрын

sh4ggie I know we also did the same in Massachusetts. Though our school system is very decentralized so it differs from district to district.

@opperturk124

4 жыл бұрын

Sophismata, does that mean wise, smart? I study old greek

@Miolnir3

4 жыл бұрын

@Opperturk It can be translated as "forgery puzzle" . Sophismata is an argument entailing falsehood for educational purposes. Not sure, but I think the etymons (a.k.a etyms) of the word itself can be distinguished as follows : _sophos_ (wisedom) + _-ma_ (suffix for the outcome of an action or process) + _-ta_ (suffix for an intervening agent either personal or not). So, semantically speaking, we can say _sophismata_ it's a "sophism agent" or more precisely "a device or construct that entails a sophism" (here 'sophism' doesn't have its original meaning of, let's say, "axiom of wisdom" but the derogatory meaning of "falsehood" or "forgery" because of historical reasons) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophismata my regards 🇦🇷

@jenspedersen9138

3 жыл бұрын

Just like marxists

11:19 Can confirm works. Sitting here doing a drawing listening to old beige, and this part made me look up to focus on the sudden quiet. Rhetorical psychology is neat.

My wife is a Language Arts teacher at a public school in the US. Her students are 17 years old. In addition to standard Language Arts which all students are required to take, she also teaches Speech and Cultural Literacy. Recognizing the importance of Rhetoric, every student she teaches gets taught about it.

I don't get it. Why do we love watching Lindy so much? I'm convinced he could make any topic interesting.

@LordInter

6 жыл бұрын

Razar Campbell enthusiastic, knowledgeable, insightful, try a to be honest, not arrogant, doesn't come across as understanding it, very relatable, humour without trying too hard. A Fantastic watch

@MISANTHROPE00

6 жыл бұрын

He's a lovely guy

@amitabhakusari2304

6 жыл бұрын

His use of rhetorics is on point.

@sirderam1

5 жыл бұрын

Rhetoric.

4 жыл бұрын

That, in a nutshell, is also rethoric.

this channel has mountains of character, such an (at first) seemingly low-quality format works so well and is incredibly entertaining to watch

"Even a plumber needs rhetoric" ~13:00 Bravo sir.

This man is a national treasure. A plain speaking, honestly held and elegant presentation of the facts. Thank you and very well done.

Is clickbait Rhetoric?

@frederik7338

7 жыл бұрын

it is yes. Usually pathos, appealing to your feelings (usualy curiosity) "you won't believe what this video is about!", "10 absolutely fantastical facts" etc. All challenge our sense of curiosity, on a level where we react almost automatically to.

@icedragon769

7 жыл бұрын

Depends on what you're calling "clickbait" A lot of people on youtube confuse "catchy headline" with "clickbait". The fact that you were encouraged to click does not mean you were baited, it means it's a good headline. There's no "bait" unless there's a "switch" that comes after.

@ScienceDiscoverer

7 жыл бұрын

Also lust is very popular pathos! Boobs and butts alike!

@Yotrymp

7 жыл бұрын

Perhaps all video titles and thumbnails are clickbait, because they are bait used to get you to click on a video. Most of it is bad, some of it straight-up misleading, and some of it is good. Funny thing is, no one complains when imagery and words that bait you to click on something are relevant and accurate. When people complain about "clickbait", they just mean that the bait was misleading or outright lies.

@2adamast

7 жыл бұрын

+Tymprasta I have seen many decent video getting over the normal of 1% of thumbs down just because for all I know there was a mismatch between content and title or thumbnail. (this video is at 1.2%)

Lindy using rhetoric on me? *purrs*

@BigBoss-sm9xj

7 жыл бұрын

Synystr7 XD

Having been on the debate team in high school, I learned all about using techniques like rhetoric, issue framing, and even being made to argue-- and be expected to argue well enough to win --points/positions that we did not hold. My English teacher for junior and senior year was also the debate team coach. He revelled in making us argue points we not only didn't hold, but which we actually favored that position's antithesis. He once made me argue that Hitler's Final Solution was not only necessary, but ethical in a utilitarian moral framework as it supposedly did more good for more people than it harmed. He explained that he did this to illustrate how debate is rarely truly about find truth, but about changing minds and/or scoring points and how tactics like rhetorical devices can be dangerous. Personally, while I saw his point, what I took out of the exercise even more was that the moral philosophy of utilitarian is deeply flawed-- this is because I made a damned good case that murdering millions can be moral under utilitarian axioms. BTW, I went to a Jesuit college preparatory high school, which offered a more classical style education. Philosophy class taught rhetoric as well as debate team, as well as classical logic; and physics class spent a month teaching the basics of philosophy of science. I was a lucky young man, though I didn't realize it at the time :)

nearly up to 1 million subs. I love this perpetual hand-signing cardigan man.

Lloyd (if you'll pardon the familiarity), I suspect your solution IS how, or why, rhetoric vanished from the curriculum. It got parceled up across the board, and in losing focus blurred away to nothing.

@xCorvus7x

5 жыл бұрын

It seems so. If you have learned how to write an essay, then you have probably covered most of rhetoric.

not spend it all on sweets and comics.I wanted to study the effect of sugar on peoples reading comprehensions and whether action novels are easier to recall then their picture-less counterparts.

@RogerPilkey

7 жыл бұрын

Then why did you spend all your grant money on hookers and blow?

@sirderam1

7 жыл бұрын

Roger, That was the control group! By the time the control group data had been collected there was no grant money left. If, however, the grant could be extended ...

@amitabhakusari2304

6 жыл бұрын

Logos?

I loved this one especially as I am enamoured by the creatura that rationality is. Your videos connect entertainment, in the form of your persona, with satisfaction of curiosity, in the form of the information you provide, in perfect proportions. Personally, the longer the video, the better. I am glad I found this channel!

Right, from now every time I try to describe Lord of the Rings to friends I'm gonna say "Hobbit chaps."

The term "ancient greek pick-up artists" is somehow stuck in my mind.

Nice to see you recreated the room in the tank museum, it looks identical.

When I was on debate team one of my favorite rhetorical devices was the fallacious use of appeal to irrelevant consequences. I was just a teenager at the time, and I was literally taught to win the debate whether I believed the position I held or not. Now I've learned to despise that kind of dishonest tactic in discourse. The same sort of appeal to irrelevant consequences that I used that 17 and 18 in Debate Club is what young Earth creationists use to attack evolution when they say irrelevant things like "if evolution is true, then we're just animals and nothing matters and morals don't matter-- etc etc" in a debate about whether or not evolution best explain biodiversity given the evidence for, and predictive power of, the theory No matter how many desirable or undesirable consequences of a proposition being true there might be, these alleged consequences have nothing at all to do with whether the proposition is, in fact, true. The appeal the consequences is a type of appeal to emotion and a red herring fallacy, designed to distract from the issue at hand the evidence for or against the proposition and focus instead on alleged consequences of that proposition being true which the audience would find undesirable. This is done in the hope that they will react emotionally and reject the proposition because they want to avoid those undesirable consequences, rather then make a conclusion based on the actual evidence presented Such an argument is like saying the sun doesn't exist because it can give you skin cancer and one day it's going to expand so far that it's going to envelop the Earth and burn it to a crisp. None of that matters one Whit to whether or not the sun actually exists, which is a question simply looking up on a cloudless day should settle for most reasonable people

Having studies rhetoric for three years, I must say I really like this entire video and it's message. Well done, Sir! :o)

Learning to make a rational argument is the whole point of expository writing assignments in Language Arts and Social Studies. Most children just write about their feelings, and their teachers let them get away with it.

@templarkiller2926

7 жыл бұрын

CountArtha In 6th grade I almost made my teacher vomit with a very detailed account of the time I stepped on a screw and it had to be unscrewed out of the board it was in, I was very proud of myself at the time

The US school system is handled by the local and state government. The federal government have a extremely small influence on schools. I learned rhetoric in high school. It was one of our core subjects. BTW I can time travel

@ProfessorSyndicateFranklai

7 жыл бұрын

Cicero! I'm a big fan!

@leonardoloof7480

7 жыл бұрын

no, you are a hat Mr. Francis :I

@KManAbout

7 жыл бұрын

Provinces handle education in canada. ANd in my province it is standard to teacj geography and history

@DM-mi4je

7 жыл бұрын

Marcus Tullius Cicero since common core not ss much

@BigBoss-sm9xj

7 жыл бұрын

Marcus Tullius Cicero when did you go to high school?

In Canada rhetoric is taught slightly through , “media literacy” which nowadays is a very broad subject focusing on avoiding misinformation, advertising, understanding the rise of certain leaders

@vaclavjebavy5118

2 жыл бұрын

@@LegendLength Logic is a part of rhetoric. They may neglect it, but even if they didn't they'd rely on rhetoric. Even scientific evidence is an appeal to logic and authority (scientific authority). You could call this empty rhetoric, or emotional rhetoric.

Having just watched this, it has been added to my list of materials for future education of my inevitable progeny. Thank you.

the reasons you give for brining retoric back are the exact reasons they pulled it out to begin with. the ones in charge want a compliant and unaware citizenry.

@JTA1961

5 жыл бұрын

Pay attention or continue to pay out the nose...

@bowmanc.7439

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly. The “drivel” works because they aren’t teaching rhetoric. So why would they make it harder for themselves?

@stsk7

4 жыл бұрын

Conspiracies don't get anyone anywhere

@M33f3r

4 жыл бұрын

@@bowmanc.7439 The unawareness remains strong but compliance is obviously fading rapidly.

The Dutch school system actually covers these false arguments like ad hominem, false dilemma's, incorrect comparison and circle argumentation pretty well teaching about them during language classes.

@hazzmati

7 жыл бұрын

ahah ja he toen hij dat zei kon ik me herinner dat wij juist wel lessen kregen over drogredenen, maar misschien is dit niet op alle niveau's

@gty7kgle

7 жыл бұрын

hazzmati krijg t in ieder geval zowel op havo als op vwo

@EEYore-py1bf

6 жыл бұрын

Canada couldn't do that, it would raise a generation of children who see through the bullshit of our politics.

@_tyrannus

5 жыл бұрын

Going on a one week exchange in a Dutch highschool was as enlightening as it was depressing to go back to mine afterwards. :(

@Gisborne1990

5 жыл бұрын

Yet in an interview with random street people 90% of them thought britain leaving the EU was insane and bad and we must stay in lol...

"Socrates, who was particularly missed." Congratulations Lindy, you just earned Like :)

@Rhenor

4 жыл бұрын

That caught me too! It was a really sneaky Monty Python reference.

@SlagBossProductions

4 жыл бұрын

Scrolled through to find this comment. Great work!

@Zac_Craig-Claveau

4 жыл бұрын

A lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed!

i just came back to this video after learning rhetorical fallacies and i can't say how much I appreciate you Lindy!

How is this video longer than the Panzer III video?! Quick inform the Tank Museum that their Lindybeige has gotten loose!

@snail3849

7 жыл бұрын

Haha, first comment in a long time that actually made me laugh.

just so you know, Canadians most definitely have both geography and history classes

@bobbybass7972

7 жыл бұрын

He is right about the Americans tho, don't know why he shitted on the Canadians ?

@ARamWhoWrangles

7 жыл бұрын

I had both throughout my early education and extended education so...

@malkavian5

7 жыл бұрын

We also have debates (rhetoric) in English class

@toaojackson7447

7 жыл бұрын

American here, geography was sophmore year, history was throughout it all, and rhetoric was junior year

@LaEskleraNEW

7 жыл бұрын

Anarchy-Senpai Why do you americans give strange names to everything?

Just held my last speech in an optional 'add-on' rhetoric-class. Just saw this and I think this video is a major reason I chose to take it. Definitely worth it! Thank you Lloyd!

Dear Mr Beige.... I have watched many of your videos and thoroughly enjoyed them but this particular episode delighted me. Your comments and common sense were accurate back in 2017 and are exactly what we need more of here in 2019!

"Socrates - who he particularly missed..." Was that a sly Python reference, Lloyd? It's also worth noting that Socrates wasn't exactly executed, as i hear it. In Ancient Greece at the time, those who were condemned to death were quietly invited to self-exile. Socrates, though, wanted to prove a point (as he ever did), and *deliberately* stuck around and demanded to be executed. He was, but the government was very sheepish about the whole thing.

@ronaldderooij1774

7 жыл бұрын

I thought Socrates was forced to drink poison? He was not beheaded as suggested in the video, I think.

@Dosbomber

7 жыл бұрын

I heard he was burned alive... not that I ever heard a word about him in any academic environment.

@JohnyG29

6 жыл бұрын

Dosbomber No, he was made to drink hemlock. its very famous.

@wierdalien1

6 жыл бұрын

Grymbaldknight Socrates: himself was particularly pissed.

Don't get reason and emotion mixed up. That would be pathological.

@ScienceDiscoverer

7 жыл бұрын

"Deadly argument" xD

@NietzscheanMan

7 жыл бұрын

Catch_Me_If_You_Can, you love your child because it carries your genes. Not one for logic, I presume.

when u slowed down i got that same feeling as when i watched Darren Browns shows, absolutely nailed it!

I had to (temporarily) leave the video when he just dropped in the line “will be particularly missed” when referring to Plato. I had been very intensely and very seriously listening he uttered that line and then I burst into laughter. I had not been aware that he was a Monty Python fan. (Cf The Philosophers Song). What a trivial comment. Sorry! Well back to the video

Socrates himself is particularly missed!

@lindybeige

7 жыл бұрын

A great little thinker, but...

@simonmunns9369

7 жыл бұрын

😄

@Odothuigon

7 жыл бұрын

...a bugger when he's pissed!

@jmalmsten

7 жыл бұрын

I've always wondered about that song. That line seem to suggest that he feels left out, but earlier in the lyrics he is mentioned as being permanemtly pissed. So of all of them he alone gets mentioned twice and still he's unhappy. I guess there's no pleasing some philosophers... :/

@Odothuigon

7 жыл бұрын

Are you aware that pissed is UK slang for drunk? The song describes every philosopher as loving drink or drunk. It doesn't mean pissed as in pissed off or angry.

On the Canada thing- geography and history are lumped together into a class called "Socials Studies". We do learn rhetoric briefly in English 11/12, it doesn't get much time or its own class, but we do learn the main 3 ideas and all that.

@hedgehog3180

7 жыл бұрын

Actually social science is a field of science and things like geography (as long as it isn't straight up cartography), economics, history etc. fall into it. So social studies is basically a class for all the areas that can't stand on their own in high school. We also have it in Denmark so that's why I know this.

@torrinmaag5331

7 жыл бұрын

Note: This comment uses the Ontario curriculum. In my recent experience, geography and history are mandatory credits in Grade 9 and 10 respectively. You also have to take a careers and civics course, the latter which is quite similar to History of Canada and Geography of Canada.

Well, that's my tutor group activities sorted for the next academic year. Cheers!

I know I’m a couple years late but I’ve had a fantastically entertaining and educational re-learning of rhetoric thanks to you. :) I agree that it should be taught in schools early on, at least so that young people would have a chance at expressing themselves more clearly and not getting distracted by “dismal drivel” as you put it. Rhetoric was by far my favorite topic in university, because it taught me more about, well, everything that has ever been spoken or communicated. Thank you for this video!

Good day Lindy.

I commented on an earlier video asking for more tanks and you supplied us with glorious Bovington, Will there be more oh Lindy?

@lindybeige

7 жыл бұрын

There shall!

Thank you sir. Your videos helped me a lot for the past several years. Finished my master study and proceeding with my doctorate...and I even got paid to do it. I find it fascinating that in high education these days people (especially the highly educated one) neglects the knowledge of logic, semantics and rhetorics. I got some examiners questioned whether my submitted research papers were plagiarized. To them the language structure was too sophisticated to what was usually submitted as drafts by junior postgraduates. Nothing feel so good than to submit a perfect document the first time and as final draft without any change whatsoever. Multiple draft submission of the same article done only for administrative reasons...you know how dull bureaucracy is...necessary but still...dull...

Really enjoyed your viewpoints. Very educational, entertaining and inspirational!

Loyd for Consul!

Call me a cynic, but the thought of my old school teaching us rhetoric is hilarious. They wanted quiet little robots who did as we were told. I'm sure the teachers saw us as a necessary yet inconvenient route to their wages. Except for Mr Senior, he was a good bloke.

Haha I was looking away from my screen when he went quiet and it really brought me back into the video

For some time now I've been trying to work out why Lloyd reminds me of one of my most influential teachers during my time in sixth form college. At first I just thought it was a combination of the beard, fashion sense and accent - but now that I've seen this video I understand what it is. It's this. He taught 3 of the 4 subjects I was sitting, English language, English literature, and Critical Thinking. The latter was basically what Lloyd advocates for here as a single subject. It was a two year A-Level course that, honestly, could easily have been done in less than one in terms of material that needed to be covered but it was just so beneficial to my results in all three of the other subjects I studied (the fourth was psychology). It covered: persuasive writing techniques; logical fallacies; the structure of arguments, including how to constuct a logically sound argument; a little taster of formal logic; and how to dissect an argument. I've said ever since finishing my A-Levels that it shouldn't need to be left so late (to the point that only those with an eye toward going to university get the opportunity at all) when some of the simpler concepts could easily be instilled into a child's reasoning capabilities fairly early into their educational career and the more complex concepts could be pretty seemlessly into the fabric of the current curriculum across multiple subjects across multiple years and key stages.

Hey in my highschool it was compulsory to learn Latin apart from 2 (kind of) freely chosen foreign languages. The point is we were learning about Cicero's speeches in original! Of course it was not only about translating but having a deep understanding about the form, the structure. After translating the speech and having proper knowledge about the 'big picture' we got introduced to the small, hidden tricks and the logic of leaving no grip for those who are trying to prove the opposite we stand for. Speaking of not leaving any grip in our text or essay we also practiced this mindset during our literature lessons when we had the task to summarize certain amount of information about an author or a literary work. That was not about missing out a less important date for example when did this and this guy go to university or whatever. It was about to give a full picture about the subject or argument, suiting ideally all the relevant information into it leaving our audience without any doubt or questions. Because if we don't prepare our essay in this way we can easily get tricked with question and the painful, degrading hesitation always leaves certain doubt in our trustworthiness or knowledge. All in all, your point about teaching rhetoric is done in few Hungarian (yepp east eu ftw) highschools in practice. In my humble opinion the system works well except for having to learn an extra third language but I think it's worth the time and effort.

@dentistguba

7 жыл бұрын

Latin and Greek help a lot with understanding English and most European languages, without them it's like learning maths without knowing the numbers.

Someone should upload all Lindybeige videos on RedTube! XDD "Tall british guy showing his sword skills"

@benfrens6284

7 жыл бұрын

GermanCurl tall British guy in sweater seduces girl using his rhetoric

@tumbleman5681

7 жыл бұрын

take my damn upvote

@MsJavaWolf

7 жыл бұрын

Tall British guy talking dirty: "penetrate the frenchmen with arrows from your LONG bow"

@amegagorilla

7 жыл бұрын

Who the hell in their right mind would use RedTube?!?! Xvideos or Pornhub is the way...

@BaranovPeter

7 жыл бұрын

Am I the only one who thought that said KZread Red?

Hello Mr. Beige, I'm an American college student and I remember dimly that we actually were briefly taught Ethos, Pathos, and Logos in a class my second year of high school called Interpersonal Communication, which mostly consisted of being taught how to do public speaking properly. I remember analyzing a few different professional persuasive essays and being asked to point out where these appeals were being made and whether or not they were logical arguments or not. I recall it being an interesting assignment but we only ever talked about it for a day or two. Likewise, the next year I took a composition class and we briefly talked about the various logical fallacies (like strawman, etc.), but again we only lightly touched upon it, and were never really asked to go deeper with these topics, we were just told to avoid the fallacies (which half the jaded gits in my class couldn't be bothered to do anyway). So I feel like an actual structured long course on the topic would be in order, to get more people thinking about what's actually being said to them (like how you mentioned people just ate up Obama's every word). So the idea has certainly been implemented, just not very well at all. And I went to an above-average (ha) school in a well-off neighborhood, so it wasn't for lack of funding or teachers that it wasn't taught, it's just not a very prominent thing that school administrators think we need.

I guess it's not typical, but the school I go to has a class that's suggested to every student to take before they graduate called "rhetoric and composition". He also mentioned that a lot of schools in the US don't require geography and history, so I guess my school is doubly odd since it requires both a world history class and an American history class to graduate.

@smorrow

6 жыл бұрын

As a non-American with some awareness of American schools, I view them as teaching a ridiculous amount of "history".

The speed of lindys hair dissapearing is really disturbing.

@vradic03

7 жыл бұрын

Brzina kojom Lindijeva kosa nestaje je uznemirujuca.

@nikola12nis

7 жыл бұрын

+VR P pa dobro

@vradic03

7 жыл бұрын

+Nikola Nedeljkovic well good

@nikola12nis

7 жыл бұрын

+VR P Im not going to win this one , am i ?

@vradic03

7 жыл бұрын

+Nikola Nedeljkovic da neces

I bet Cicero could morph Lindy into a katana fanboy in no time. But he would leave the house with a tank model in his hands.

@jasondoe2596

7 жыл бұрын

xD

quite a transition into the Great Courses, well done

Mr Beige. thank you for another entertaining 30 or so minutes. amazing as allways

If only this video went up before the aqa english language exam....

Why do you have a pair of spectacles fixed to the wall behind you, just wondered?

@dansaunders1655

3 жыл бұрын

Just in case

We live in a dark time with low grade language and ideas. Lindybeige is of the few that has reason and intelligence. I love this channel. Keep spreading your knowledge and wisdom!

By what you say, seems as the three modes of persuasion could each correspond to which part of the exchange they attempt to bring focus on: -The *source* of the argument = ethos (be it "I'm a good source!" or "that guy's a bad source!") -The *recipient* of the argument = pathos (hoping you feel a certain way upon absorbing the argument, or that you keep absorbing the argument because you feel a certain way) -The *environment* = logos (independent, allegedly, to both source and recipient)

"Kill him to death!" Lindybeige 2017 AHAHAHA lol

@yoco93cro

7 жыл бұрын

To make sure they didn't kill him to life

@7PlayingWithFire7

7 жыл бұрын

Reddy23 it's bad translation from an anime from years and years ago..

@sonofnone116

3 жыл бұрын

Well, he's only mostly dead. If he were dead dead, the only thing left to do is go through his pockets for spare change. But mostly dead? We can do something about that!

20:44 "cannot pass military secrets to the french" hahaha i laught for 2 hours

I know this video is three years old, but still I feel I must comment. Fantastic video, and I very much agree that having some form of solid education in rhetoric, critical thinking, and statistics should be more pushed for in general education. In part due to my autism spectrum disorder, I used to have very black and white thinking, but taking a course in philosophy which covered these subjects disabused me of that kind of thought; a good bonus being that you can often empathise more with people on "the other side", so to speak. Also, Dr. Ben Goldacre's phenomenal book, "I Think You'll Find it is a Bit More Complicated Than That" was a very entertaining read which really helps you to better understand statistics, and also while showcasing a lot of the nonsense various people can come out with, and kneecapping their bad arguments and statistics.

What an excellent and though provoking video, truly something which I will use to arm myself again the horrible rhetoric (see, you expanded the usage of my vocabulary) of the modern day and perhaps even to raise awareness of it amongst my friends and neighbours

You make many excellent points

I've never heard of a high school in the US without geography and history in my whole life living here.

@lindybeige

7 жыл бұрын

Glad to read this, but I spoken with other North Americans who were not so blessed.

@Julian_The_Apostate

7 жыл бұрын

dnarbredlih Lots of schools around here only teach post colonial American history. It's kinda sad, being an American it's obviously important to know the history of your county but in my opinion there are much more interesting aspects of history you could be taught, which in lots of places are only offered as an elective, or someti.es not at all.

@eruantien9932

7 жыл бұрын

Possibly it varies by state. By the sounds of things a lot of things do.

@hedgehog3180

7 жыл бұрын

I Denmark we're taught about the pre-history of Denmark. Pre-colonial isn't even that so there's really no reason not to teach it, especially since the remains of the pre-colonial civilizations can still be found around the US just like how the remains of the stone and bronze age still dot the land scape of Denmark. It's infact a very important part of our national identity.

@seanrea550

7 жыл бұрын

history and geography was wrapped up in a subject termed social studies, much in the same way that language arts combined english, writing composition, and grammar and to some degree logic.

Your ad-hoc, unplanned and sometimes scatterbrained style is very entertaining to watch, don't change a bit about it. :)

One of my favorite lindy videos

I think Count Dankula would disagree that Britons have freedom of speech.

@Reilly-Maresca

7 жыл бұрын

What of Lord Buckethead?

@canihave2bucks

7 жыл бұрын

meh fuck off with that, It's a tired argument to say freedom of speech is not valued because it isn't law. If it isn't it needs to be. You can not discuss ideas and values without it, you can not have a free society without it. It is the core to the modern western world's standard of life.

@Youchubeswindon

7 жыл бұрын

I think most people mis-understand the concept of free speech. It's not 'I can say what I want', it's 'I can criticise my government (within reason) with impunity'

@WalkerKlondyke

7 жыл бұрын

Youchubeswindon What? Are you some sort of Maoist? You're the one with the misunderstanding.

@Hiraghm

6 жыл бұрын

@Not Sure nonsense. The right to keep and bear arms was *always* considered an individual right, as that is how the 2nd Amendment words it. "The People" always refers to... the people. There are 3 entities in the Constitution of note; the federal government, the States and the People. The right is NOT restricted to the context of a well-ordered militia, because if it were, it wouldn't be a militia, but an army. The militia is a coming together of The People *with their arms*. The 2nd is very clear that the right *of the People* to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, not the right of the State to have a militia. In their writings, the Founding Fathers were very clear in their support of the individual ownership of firearms. I find it further amusing that the U.S. has perhaps the most powerful army in the world when we are not to have a standing army at all. But we ignore that bit of the Constitution (just like we ignore the bit about POTUS having to be *natural*, not merely native, born). Further amusing still is the suggestion that "shall not be infringed" doesn't include concealed carry permits, licensing, or "gun-free zones". "Shall not be infringed" means that not even 7-11 can stop you from bringing your firearm, if you are allowed into the store without it. Unlike the 1st Amendment, the federal government is not specified. Don't like it? Doesn't matter; the proper way to change it is through the amendment process, not by ignoring it or pretending it means other than what it means.

1:20 why is this no longer taught in school? 14:30 because, it's a mean of finding the truth. and if people found the truth, that'd be bad... very bad.

Lloyd your videos are great. Thank you for them. My husband and I love your style/method/philosophy. Just wanted to comment that we second your opinion that rhetoric (or philosophy) be brought back into curriculum. My husband writes philosophy and social criticism and believes that a lack of this type of education has lead to a species wide communication problem. Psychology buried philosophy in the politic and the domain of morality became the focus of manipulation in practice. In the modern world, an inter-connected amalgam intellect that can't effectively communicate begins breaking down. He calls it Hypermanipulation.

2:44 as an American I must say that is completely in correct in America the four standard classes are HISTORY, Math, English, and Science

Forgive the pedantry but 'inventio' doesn't mean invention, although it's rather obviously the source of our English word and so it's a common misconception. For a classical Latin speaker inventio was drawing inspiration from the work of someone else or potentially in some cases from an example in nature. Virgil's Aeneid for example was considered a work of inventio, referring to its inspiration from Homer's Odyssey. In rhetoric, inventio is actually referring to finding something pre-existing as the inspiration of your argument. Usually this would either be a current event, a parallel to a commonly known story (historical or mythological) or finding a point from your opponent's argument to use for rebuttal. The English idea of invention implies an act of original creativity, which was explicitly not involved in the Latin inventio. By definition an invention isn't an inventio, they're almost antonyms. There's no easy translation in modern english unfortunately, but "derivative work", "based on a true story" or "inspired by" are probably the closest on a conceptual level even though they are not grammatically identical. Most English sources simply list inventio as directly equivalent to invention in their definition but that isn't how a Roman speaker of Cicero's era would understand the term.

@DieselpunkMachine

4 жыл бұрын

one can say of contemporary invention the same. Act of creativity consists of getting inspiration and doing thing. Where do you get inspiration is not matters much.

@yorkshiregrump5248

4 жыл бұрын

Aren't most inventions inspired by something else? See the book 'Nature Mother of Invention'. I have myself devised a motor drive inspired by a seesaw. Perhaps the guy who built the first push-pull amplifier had a similar experience.

@Soitisisit

3 жыл бұрын

anekdoty?

3:17 Ethos, Pathos and Logos - otherwise known as the Three Greek Musketeers.

From Australia and we actually have rhetoric taught in high school English class. We looked mainly at written examples and called it persuasive writing - we were taught both what techniques were used to persuade us and how we can use them.

Lloyd, that was brilliantly presented. Thank you! Through observation (and my own emulations of these things, sad to admit), I was already partially aware of much of what you presented. I was unaware of the Ethos, Pathos and Logos divisions, however, but lightbulbs suddenly glowed as you explained them. I agree: Rhetoric needs to be actively taught in schools, and it needs to be co-presented along with virtually every subject in school (History, Literature, etc.). Critical thinking is sadly and pathetically missing from most people's lives (think: the viral and maniacal Conspiracy Theories capturing far too much attention nowadays). Understanding Rhetoric IS critical thinking-- the entire world needs a healthy spot of that.

Cicero got “killed to death” 😂

Could you recommend some books on the topic lindy?

In Australia we are taught 'persuasive writing' (including some oral), as part of English class.

I distinctly remember learning about this in 2 different schools like 10 years ago or so. I’m certain it’s still taught today, just not as a stand alone class, it more or less lumped into English or Language Arts class

I love the thought of scientists, once their funding grant has come through, rushing out to buy sweets and comics :D haa haa

@HAL-nt6vy

4 жыл бұрын

a/k/a hookers and blow

Y'all are commenting on a 33 minute video that's only been up 19 mins

In high school senior year we learned about Ethos, Logos and Pathos. In college the English class I took was a rhetorical analysis class that discussed fallacies and this was a standard class that everyone had to take.

In college they covered some of this in a communication class, though it wasn't that in depth. Also, it seems like this would be a much better thing to teach to younger children. Because by the time you get to college, everyone is really bad of public speaking and even a lot of them fear doing it.