As a child from very late 70s (79), I remember those style thumb shifters on a bike my parents gave me mid 80s.....then, late in 1989, I got into MTBs and finally received an aluminum framed CATIC bike with Suntour XC X press accu shifters...…...I am currently in the process of modernizing that 1991 bike …..you sir ,are constantly inspiring me to bring it to the 21st century but at the same time, respecting its history......Thumbs Up!

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

Delighted to hear you still have that bike! It absolutely deserves respect.

I got a pair of new Microshift thumb shifters a couple of years ago for my commuter, and they work very well. They have a range of them, for various speeds. I like the flexibility of not being tied to specific brifters, its much easier to make changes, replacements and service. I shift down with the side of my hand, up with the thumb, it's just as fast as any other kind of mechanical shifter.

@red_dread

8 ай бұрын

I've never tried Microshift but they do look good and they seem to be growing in popularity.

Hahahahahah! Yes I always try to use what I can if it’s in good condition - cables, cable housing, cable ends. Pretty sure that stuff just ends up in landfill! And definitely a good tip on re-using the rear cable for the front derailleur! Def done that before and I also try not to have any kinks in my cables too as that looks horrendous. Great vid about the shifters, nice to hear about their history. Looking forward to the next vid & thanks for the mention, truly honored! 🙏🙏🙇🏻‍♂️🙇🏻‍♂️🙇🏻‍♂️

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

I don't like binning stuff generally, and I love how you strip things down to every last spring rather than let them go to waste. Had to show you some respect as I felt a bit guilty binning one perfectly good cable, but I just couldn't be bothered and I have such a large stock of new ones!

8:52 that's brilliant idea! I don't know why I've never thought of that.

Very cool. If my memory serves, a lot of the thumb shifters I ran could be set to friction shift, this made them more usable with non stock gearing combinations. Had a pair of those nice Shimano ones but sadly gave them away to a friend who was restoring a nice old bike (I think it was a fat chance). Wish I still had em!

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, the friction option was also good to get you home after a crash, if you bent your rear mech or hanger.

@szurketaltos2693

Жыл бұрын

Those XTs and Deores have somewhat limited friction shifting since the switching mechanism gets in the way of more travel. You definitely couldn't shift a modern 1.1 ratio derailleur across 12 speeds with one. And the left shifter is blocked by an internal stop so can't use the upside down to do it either. I should say there are ways to friction shift that, just not with these.

You should try removing grips with medicinal alcohol. Also fit them back in. And when it dries, they are rock solid.

@ThisTimeTheWorld

Жыл бұрын

Yeah it works great

As always, love your videos where you go in-depth into the nerdy bike stuff. It's a rarity, those knowledge!

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

Probably won't ever get a million subscribers, but there's definitely a few of us out there that love this stuff! Thanks.

Hello, every time I watch your videos and wonder how well everything was done differently than they are doing now. I really like it. Thank you for the video.

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

The history is really fascinating - it's amazing how the technology has evolved, but the old stuff is still special.

Very interesting. I didn't use underbar gear shifters until about.. a month ago when I bought my new bike. My old Trek and Kona both had/have XT groupsets with overbar shifters. I've always loved them.

Love this channel. Having finally sorted my re-gained childhood steed of an MBK Mirage the simplicity and crispness of down tube shifters, surely the road equivalent of DX thumbies but direct mounted and also has the hidden click, is a revelation after years to more modern STI descendants of the XTR rapid fires on my straight bar bike. So simple, slick and just brings back so many memories as does the sounds of you running up and down the gears. 😅 Shivers!

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! There's no nicer sound than a perfectly indexed gear shift.

Wow, nearly 2000 subscribers now! Won't be long before you're a custodian of a lovely blue wall of Park and a shiny KZread plaque. Keep up the good work, love seeing this retro stuff.

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

I must already have every Park Tool I could possibly need! Arranging them all on a blue wall would be a delight though. I'm sure I'll get my plaque eventually, I certainly won't ever run out of retro bike stuff to talk about.

I was surprised how hard it is to find 8-speed shimano shifters NOT integrated with brake levers. Now I understand why, and will go for these 7-speed thumb shifters. All the information I needed. Great video, thanks.

@red_dread

2 жыл бұрын

Good to hear - I'm sure you'll have seen before (including in the comments on this channel) that debate rages about the effectiveness of that "hidden click" to run these shifters 8-speed. Some say it never works perfectly, others including me say it works fine as long as you do a good enough job of tuning it! If you use a compatible Shimano rear mech such as XT with the floating top jockey, you'll find it works best.

I am a fan and frequent user of the rear to front cable swap too. Great video!!

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

Waste not want not. I'm such a hoarder, it pains me to bin pretty much anything. And thanks, glad you liked. Pretty niche content but there's something about these XT thumbshifters that brings so many of us together.

Great vids, never miss one! I use Methylated Spirits to fit and remove handlebar Grips. You don't need too much fitting them and it will evaporate. To remove, do the same as you did, however replace the WD with Metho. Cheers from another Aussie Down Under 👍🇦🇺🙂 PS. Perhaps a thorough Sping video showing your collection would be good... I always enjoy ogling your prime steeds 😁

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching! Yes, as soon as I invest in a proper syringe that'll be problem solved.

just bought a late 80s Bianchi Grizzly with DX on it and your videos are sooo helpful and informative. I wasn't even alive when this bike was made so it's nice to learn from someone like you

@red_dread

2 жыл бұрын

DX was well beyond my budget until I started my '93 build - it's a solid groupset and I hope you'll find most if not all of yours still has plenty of life left in it. Good to hear some of my memories of a childhood obsession are useful to people!

@jackaslope

2 жыл бұрын

@@red_dread oh yeah. They still ka-chunk real good!!!

I just bought an old touring bicycle that came with full xt groupset from 1988, including thumb shifters They needed a bit of cleaning, but are working great now 👌 I always enjoy learning about MTB history, thanks for sharing !

@red_dread

6 ай бұрын

Wow, a full '88 XT groupset? That's a gem at any price. Delighted to hear you got it all working and I hope you're enjoying riding it. I'm obsessed with MTB history, since all this stuff coincided with that period in my young life when (like most little boys) I found my obsession and devoured every magazine and catalogue I could get my hands on. Unlike a lot of little boys, however, I never forgot and never grew up.

@ssmtb

6 ай бұрын

​@@red_dread yea 😄 thanks 🙏 I can very much relate to that, I also used to obsess over MTB magazines as a youth I think I got it at a good price, paid $180 dollars, it came on a Handmade chromoly touring bicycle, by a pretty well known US builder named Ant Mike Bike The bike itself is amazing craftsmanship, so this was the icing on the cake :)

After seeing this video recently, I scored an 87' Saracen conquest with full xt in near new condition. Thanks for the knowledge!

@red_dread

9 ай бұрын

Wow, that really is something special. Do you have any pics or videos of that bike anywhere online? I'd love to see it!

The majority of my bikes over the years were Deore, Deore 2 and Deore DX as I couldn't afford XT let alone XTR. You're right about the steel hangers bending though. Trying to straighten them in a vice was a nightmare. I broke 3 left sided Rapidfire shifters, but no right sided strangely enough, probably due to the travel and extra force applied to the shift. I opened them up and to find the very bottom circlip which held everything together had snapped. Quite happily running an 8 speed cassette on my XT thumbies today. 😀 Again, thanks for the memories.

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

Same, I didn't get to XT shifters until the late 90s, by which time my bent DX thumbshifters were just a constant mild annoyance that I'd learned to put up with. As for knackered L/H Rapidfires, tell me about it. My priceless M900 XTR groupset has one flaw and one flaw only, and it's this. Need a thumb the length of a gorilla's to shift to big ring because it's missing a pawl. I don't dare take it apart, unlike Monkeyshred who has bravely made a how-to video.

Great vid, I also remember swivelling thumbies upside down like the the northern pros of the 90s used to!

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

Yes! I had a mate that did that, never tried it myself, looked weird. Also remember those Suntour wishbone ones that were actually intentionally marketed as under-bar thumbshifters?

Nooo, use windex to remove the grips, way easier to clean up! Also, you can easily straighten out the steel bracket. Lovely bikes and nice video, thanks for the nostalgia inducing post.

@red_dread

11 ай бұрын

I'm sure that Windex, or a lot of other products (alcohol is a common recommendation) would indeed be much cleaner, but the choice comes down to not the liquid, but the means of injecting it. WD40 can has a lovely long thin straw, hence it was the only product I had to hand that I could get under a tight fitting grip. Annoying but it worked. As for the steel brackets, yes I have found myself straightening them over the years but I resent having to do it, especially when XT eliminates the problem altogether! Also that tiny amount of flex in the DX mounting plates makes a noticeable difference in terms of feel, given that each index between gears is only a matter of millimetres every nanometre of movement counts.

Nicely done with not a drop of blood in sight.

Love your videos. And local to. Makes me get my retro collection out every time. I have the brake levers to match these but not the bike or thumbies to compleat a build. Still only have Deore ones. May well pass one day in Delamere on a retro mtb

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

I do expect I'll have one or two of these out in Delamere before too long - especially when the kids are old enough. There's a couple of bikes in my collection that I used to ride round there when I was growing up nearby.

@cftyrer

3 жыл бұрын

Also I have 1 set of Suntour SE xc cantis doing nothing. Some black LX ones. And 1 set of xtr pads (rock hard so no good but looks cool)

Great bit of history, I used to mount my shifters under the bars on the opposite sides. Rear on the left, front on the right. Try it. It’ll change your life.

@red_dread

Жыл бұрын

I do remember that fad - perhaps a response to the early 90s takeoff of "under-bar" shifters when none of us could afford the upgrade. I never did it though - by that point I was already instinctively used to the L-F/R-R configuration and too late to change. Also, there's no way I'm doing that and hiding the XT graphics!

Great content. I’m fixing up my dads old mountain bike (89 MS Racing Pro Comp XT) and they have the bent shifter bracket you mention.

@red_dread

2 жыл бұрын

Wow, those MS Racing are so cool - and that's a seriously rare and high end bit of kit. Would love to see it, is is online anywhere? Shame about those shifter brackets, they ruin the feel and function but hardly catastrophic.

Bit late to the party... but my 1988 Ridgeback 603 indeed has the Deore Levers! The top cap for the front shifter broke off crashing on the steps of Coventry Poly art block in Autumn 1989 and I never replaced it. Apart from that both shifters work as well today as 34 years ago!!!

Great video! I do prefer the simplicity and reliability of those over rapid-fire but both are acceptable. Grip-shifters however are something I view with concern.

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

Ha ha, Gripshift didn't even deserve a mention! Although some of the later really high-end ones I must admit were pretty good.

Fixed my 88 6 speed XT shifters when they failed after a crash at the Hadleigh olympic course, phew

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

Thankfully relatively easy to fix. I could only dream of XT back in 88, that 89 Deore (RH only, paired with the plastic Exage on the left) was the closest I could get.

Great videos! If you have access you compressed air it works great for install/removal of grips! Cheers

@red_dread

2 жыл бұрын

I do have a compressor but it's a big industrial unit and sometimes I can't run it if the kids are asleep! But you're right, it's SO much easier than the WD40 and gouging method.

Thanks for the time trip. I like older tech on some bikes. Some things just feel good, like friction shifters.

@red_dread

Жыл бұрын

I just set up a pair of friction shifters and I have a new found respect for riders that grew up pre-indexing. You need the eyes, ears and hands of a virtuoso musician to really master those things!

@ThisTimeTheWorld

6 ай бұрын

I put a Microshift left thumbie on a bike and use it with a 1x 7sp. I like it. ​@@red_dread

Thx for the Awesome video 👍🏾👍🏾😀👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾

I remove grips using a 2.5ml medical syringe filled with water. It sounds weird, but it works. The tiny needle is really easy to slip under the edge of grip and inject water under the grip to lubricate it enough to slide off. If you have a really stubborn grip, you can lance through the grip in various spots to get more water in. You can also remove grips that are glued on without destroying them this way by using alcohol instead of water for a little more solvent action.

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

I definitely need to invest in a syringe, that would be problem solved. The WD40 can is just the only liquid dispenser I currently possess that can inject anything into such a tight space without damaging the grip.

@philso7872

6 ай бұрын

​@red_dread thanks for making this video about thumb shifters. I see 90's bikes on the market with them but have avoided them because I didn't know much about them. To remove grips, I insert a small, flat-bladed screwdriver under the grip, drip a bit of rubbing alcohol into the gap created by the screwdriver, squeeze the grip to work the alcohol around. The grip will pop off easily. I drip a bit of alcohol into the grip to lubricate it before installing it.

If you just want a Shimano thumbie friction shifter, look at the SL-MT32; available, strong and dirt cheap.

@red_dread

Жыл бұрын

I’ve never really used any of my shifters in friction mode - I consider impeccably tuned indexing to be a point of pride! However, it’s nice to see that there are still thumbshifter options for many different modern transmissions.

Great little Vid - thanks so much 👍

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

Couldn't resist. Anyone that watches my channel is going to love thumbshifters right?

@jonnyswalk4674

3 жыл бұрын

@@red_dread Absolutely 👍

I use my Xt's and MT60's friction all the time, muscle memory still accurate. I have this odd believe that so they last longer :) and with thumbies i had never brake a single chain.

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

I think a lot of riders who were used to friction shifting were perfectly happy to carry on without SIS, but I've always been a fan of really well set up indexing myself.

@luisfelipecamilla3522

2 жыл бұрын

@@red_dread yep tunning them up was always something rewarding. Do you think it is correct to say Xt Shifters are the sole ones thar were not really designed for down tube routing?

I know what you mean, don't like to change grips either. :D

I have xt thumbies on one of my old bikes my only complaint is I have to adjust my grip to click down, where as with my sis shifters the handles are exactly where you need them . great vid thanks

@red_dread

2 жыл бұрын

There's no doubt that Rapidfire type shifters are ergonomically superior, which is why that style has become the universal standard, but there's something so nostalgic and simple about such a well-made item as an XT thumbshifter.

I think they are still the best ones ever made,the LX/DX ones that is. The Xt is still amazing and the aluminum isnt that bad.

@red_dread

2 жыл бұрын

The reason I hate the Deore/DX ones (with steel mounts rather than alloy) is that they are noticeably less precise or crisp than the XT ones on the alloy mounts. The reason is quite easy to explain: the barrel of the shifter body only has to move about 1mm per gear shift. If the steel mount has even 0.1mm of inherent flex (which I think is a conservative estimate), that equals a noticeable feel of imprecision. As a regular user of both, equally expertly set up, I can definitely feel it.

You often speak of the hairspray technique for adhesion of grips. There is an alternative to wd40 to remove (and also to install) grips, and that is methylated spirits. It's cleaner to use and once you float the grips to their desired position leave it for the methylated spirits to evaporate and it's an easy job. Requires very little clean up

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

Certainly you could use any liquid, even water, for removal - the problem is injecting it deep enough underneath a tight rubber grip without puncturing it. The only liquid dispenser I have with a suitable "needle" is the WD40 can. At some point I'll invest in a syringe with a long thin plastic needle, then problem solved.

@purto100

3 жыл бұрын

@@red_dread true regarding the nozzle, although I just do the ball ended Allen key and tip the bike a little to allow a small amount to pour into the space between the grip and the bars. Once you have a little movement it frees up remarkably quickly as it allows the whole grip to slip, and the liquid seems to sort of capillary through the space available. I implore you to give it a go... It could be your future.

@ThisTimeTheWorld

Жыл бұрын

​@@red_dread a bmx shop I visit uses air compressor with a hand over one end and plugging the air in the grip hole on the other. The grip blasts right off. I use rubbing alcohol at home.

You can just take them apart and bend the brackets back into alignment. Although to be fair I just run them in friction mode anyway...

@red_dread

2 жыл бұрын

As I so often have - but that sort of annoyance is exactly why XT is so much better!

@sveablu

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I was looking for this comment. I have a 1988 Gary Fisher Hoo Koo E Koo with the thumbies that don't say DX on them. The back index shifter is perfect, the front shifter has the bend. Now that I know this is made of steel, I will try and carefully re-allign it. There is another guy on KZread that goes step by step in the disassembly and reassembly of these shifters. So I think I know what to do now.

Having started to rebuild some bikes last year (right now working on an early 90s marin bear valley), I congratulate you for making the setup of the front derailleur look so easy. I still dread this part - as I run into trouble at the extremes. Either it works great on the big chainring but rubs on the small one or vice versa. Did these old derailleurs ever even work properly? Is there a sevret not covered in all the videos i watched? Love your inspiring videos!

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

The trick is to set the big ring limiter screw when the chain is in the smallest sprocket at the back, then vice versa. That allows you to set the mech to never drop the chain but balance that with never rubbing. Once you've got that nailed, the shifting is the easy part as long as your cable is tensioned enough. Oh, and set the height of the whole derailleur unit so it just skims the big ring teeth by approx 1mm.

Grip removal...if you have an air compressor, install a pointed tip and slip the tip under the grips (or at the end of the grips if they have a hole then plug the other side), and they come off amazingly easy. The escaping air forms a cushion on which the grips will slide.

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

A lot of people have suggested that - I'm tempted to get one actually, if only for this reason!

@retrospectologyrunner

3 жыл бұрын

Also you can use alcohol instead of WD. Just use a zip tie to drip alcohol under the grip and it slide right off and the alcohol melts right off

Mighty Thumbies

I had the Deore XT thumb shifters on my Stumpjumper Comp that I had bought brand new in 1989. I don't recall it having the mythical seventh click to allow for 8 speeds and I was trying to convert it to 8. Sadly, I swapped them for 9 speed trigger shifters and sold them on another bike a long time ago. I have the Suntour equivalent 6 speed thumb shifters on a bike that used to belong to a friend as the only bike I have left with thumb shifters. Maybe I should convert by old Stumpie back to thumb shifters? I have always used water to remove and to install grips. Once the water gets in between the grip and the bar the grip slips right off. I also repurpose the rear derailleur cable to be used as front cables (and rear brake cables as front cables), only using new cables on the rear of my bikes.

@red_dread

2 жыл бұрын

That's an interesting point about the "hidden click" - there'd have been no way of knowing while the bike was assembled because the mech would hit its upper limiter on the top sprocket and the shifter couldn't pull any further. But if you'd uninstalled an XT 7-speed thumbshifter you'd find the hidden click for sure. I never tried this with the earlier 6-speed ones though, which the '89 model might more likely have had. As for the SunTour ones, those are truly lovely and rarer than Shimano too so worth keeping. But I don't know off the top of my head whether or not Shimano and Suntour transmissions were inter-compatible at the time. I wouldn't be surprised if the shifter/derailleur pull ratios were slightly different in order to deter groupset mixing!

@petercheuk9019

2 жыл бұрын

@@red_dread as I recall, my shifters did not have the extra click. I had swapped the freehub body with the longer one compatible with 8 speeds and installed an 8 speed cassette. When I shifted to the hidden eighth speed there was no click and the derailleur spring pulled the shifter back into the seventh position. Yes, it was a 7 speed shifter, probably an early one. Suntour Accushift derailleurs and shifters seem to have a pull ratio of 1.9 compared to Shimano’s 1.7 so they’re not compatible.

Great vid! ;) You can fix those plates/holders on DX thumbs. Just need to take them apart and straighten those steel plates, and it should be back to normal. Also, you could probably use holders from Mountain LX etc. thumbs instead (those integrated with brake levers). Well, this would be a major mod so for radicals won't work ;) But if someone don't mind, then why not. Just need to figure out a good clamp for the bar. In XT 8th click is a great liitle gem. Great stuff you are posting, all the best! ;)

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

I got very tired of straightening those steel plates, plus it's very hard to get it perfect (and almost impossible to keep it that way!). That's the fundamental reason why I prefer XT so strongly. After some decades, the feel of them is generally so much crisper.

I actually have 6 speed XT thumb shifters. Have never heard anyone talk about those.

@red_dread

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, they don't get talked about so much but they were the standard until the early 90s when 7 speed came in. The early Deore one I talk about in this video is 6 speed, you can spot the difference because the top cap has a smaller diameter than the 7 speed generation.

Smashing good job mate. Will friction shifter work with 105 9 speed rd

@red_dread

2 жыл бұрын

You can undoubtedly use a friction shifter with 9-speed 105 but I've never tried it with any of these older 6 or 7 speed ones like those in the video. The risk with those is they won't have enough cable pull in them to cover the full range of the 9-speed cassette, although modern cassettes are closer spaced so it's worth a try.

Bringing back good memories, is there a modern alternative that brings back the style and feel of these as they are hard to find now?

@red_dread

2 жыл бұрын

Apart from Sunrace, which I haven't tried yet, I can't think of anything easier to find than these original ones - unless you go super exclusive like Paul Components. Also with modern 10, 11, 12 and even 13 speed cassettes, a thumbshifter wouldn't really work as you'd need more than 180 degrees of cable pull.

@stephenhughes7032

2 жыл бұрын

@@red_dread yes I looked at the sunrace. It's for a 90s hardrock so I'll just be keeping the 7 or maybe 8 speed. Thought they would be cool to have. I'm onto ebay now tho lol. Thanks 👍

The first SLI unundershifters were terrible and fell apart after 6 months or so, and yes they were very complex inside so unrepairable, Deore XT thumbshifters were gorgeous and still fetch £100 on eBay in good condition, TBH I never had this issue with the DX or XT shifters although I did usually go for the XT ones as looked so much nicer with the alloy clamp

@red_dread

Жыл бұрын

I think if you keep your DX shifters scrupulously clean and use them with care then it’s less of an issue, but even then I swear I can feel the difference! The XT thumbshifter is a true icon.

Have xt’s on my 87 Ritchey Ultra. Thought of going 1x on that bike but then the shifting is so crisp still and reliable that I just don’t see a point.

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

Quite right! That Ritchey is a work of art, and the triple chainset is as nature intended. XT shifters will outlive us all.

Funnily. Wd40 works fine to put grips on, it's fine after a few minutes drying

@red_dread

Жыл бұрын

I find it’s not compatible with the cold wet climate we have here. When you squeeze a grip in the freezing soaking Northern rain it acts like a sponge and if that moisture gets under the edge of the grip it just “reactivates” whatever’s there. Hairspray tends to be less of a problem in these cases because of its adhesive properties.

I’ve always wondered what is the tiny little SIS lever on the thumb shifter for?

@cnapoli

3 жыл бұрын

it switches the lever from index (SIS - Shimano Index System) to friction mode. You'd use index mode all the time and only switch over to friction mode if your rear derailleur got bent or somehow misaligned on a ride, or the conditions were so muddy indexing just stopped working altogether, or you borrowed a six-speed wheel.

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly this. What I didn't mention is that some thumbshifters had it on the left hand one as well as the right, although Deore and XT didn't. Indexed shifting for the front derailleur was less popular in the early days of SIS because it was harder to keep accurate. Friction allowed for the necessary "trim" depending on what rear sprocket you were in. Even weirder still, however, the identical XT thumbshifter on the Explosif in this video actually does have permanent indexing on the left hand too! My friends didn't believe me, but I swear it has distinct, very accurate, very crisp indexing through the front mech. This was never mentioned, advertised or labelled but it's there. First and only time I've ever seen this on XT...

As interesting as all the shifter talk is....where the helios did you get the lovely transparent gel grips that are on the specialized?

@red_dread

2 жыл бұрын

Sadly they're not vintage - I got them brand new off eBay and despite showing off the blue ano of the 3TTT handlebar, they aren't as comfy as they look. Quite coarse in fact.

😎👍👍👍👍👍

What do you think of the modern version, the Sunrace SLM96?

@red_dread

2 жыл бұрын

Good question, I've never actually tried them but they do look very smart and I love the fact that someone is manufacturing thumbshifters compatible with more modern drivetrains. I've often fancied building something a bit more contemporary with one of those wide, shallow-drop bars on it, and I think thumbshifters would be ideal, so Sunrace could be in the picture.

I just bought a 89 Rockhopper with full Mountain LX groupset and 7-speed m453 LX Thumbies. You reckon upgrading to XT m732s is worth it? I paid 85€ for it, the upgrade would mean like another 80 bucks haha. Stuff is getting expensive in Germany.

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

Believe it or not, my instinct says no for a number of reasons. Firstly, Mountain LX thumbies are actually really good. If you look at the Muddy Fox Courier Comp I did recently, it has those same shifters and they actually have alloy mounting bodies like XT instead of the steel ones I don't like on the later DX. Secondly, '89 Mountain LX thumbshifters today are actually rarer than XT because the latter were so ubiquitous. And it's really cool if you have a complete working groupset that came as original on the bike. It would be criminal to let a little piece of history go to waste!

Hello, thank you for this interesting post. Unfortunately, it is now almost impossible to get the XT thumb switches in a reasonable quality and an acceptable price. I would be interested to know if you have any experience with Microshift, Sturmey Archer or Sunrace levers. Best regards from Germany and always good trails.

@red_dread

2 жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it! Sorry to hear you're finding it hard to get these where you are - I guess they are more plentiful some places than others. I'm afraid I've never really used thumbshifters other than Suntour or Shimano, except of course the really old Sturmey Archer 3-speed ones which I guess you're not talking about. So I couldn't give you any sort of insight into them, but I'm glad to know there are still manufacturers doing thumbshifters anyway.

If you have an air compressor just use that to blow the grips off.

@red_dread

Жыл бұрын

I do, and it works better on some than others! If the grips are tight, glued on and don't have ends to catch the air, then it's still a battle.

hello! is that silver deore thumbies can accomodate 8 speed sprocket?

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

Hi, yes - they do have the same "hidden click" which you can use if you know the tricks!

Can I please ask a question? I have a 14 speed road bike that I bought from halfords. It has thumb shifters on top and the brakes are on the horns. I find them kinda dangerous and fiddly when I'm cycling as when I change gears I can't reach the brakes and vice versa. Do you think or know if it's a big job to replace them with "STI" gears and brakes. Hope you have some advice and thanks in advance.

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

Fitting STI units is pretty straightforward, if yours is 2x7 then you could use Shimano Sora or Tourney units, or older RSX ones - whatever you can get your hands on. The actual process of fitting them takes a bit of time but is self explanatory enough, plus there are plenty of how-to videos on KZread. The fiddliest part is re-wrapping the bar tape afterwards!

@endamcdonagh1901

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, I'm give it a go in the next few days

I had xt thumbshifters I didn't like the way they shifted very sloppy, I went back to deore DX, I can honestly say the Dx thumbie is better than the xt thumbie, and is tougher !.

@red_dread

2 жыл бұрын

I think you must be the only one! I guess you must have got unlucky with your XT ones. Now that I come to think about it, I'd be prepared to bet that the internal mechanisms were identical - it's only the clamp (DX steel v XT alloy) and the badging that appears to differentiate them. The indexing was just a sprung ball bearing/indent mechanism, with tightness controlled by a bolt through the bottom, so I guess that's how the feel can differ from one to another.

@darrenangel461

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the message yeah I tried tightening the shifter, it never seemed right, I quickly went back to the Dx shifters,

@darrenangel461

2 жыл бұрын

@@red_dread I reckon the xt,Dx thumbies were the toughest parts Shimano ever made ,

Do these have an option to switch to friction shifting?

@red_dread

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, they all do - in fact I don't think I've ever seen a thumbshifter that doesn't have that option. Beware though: if you're thinking of using retro thumbshifters on a more modern build or restomod, you also need to consider pull ratio. I've never tried it but I'm prepared to bet for example that my beautiful Deore 6-speed shifter from the 80s wouldn't work on a 9 or more speed cassette, because it doesn't wind enough cable.

Someone just donated a Motiv Pioneer to our bike collective. I need to change the old school thumb shifters. What do you recommend?

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

Hard to say without seeing it - but the only two considerations I can think about are number of gears (front and rear) and manufacturer/brand (compatibility is an issue as pull ratios differ between systems).

@alfonsoalmendariz3325

3 жыл бұрын

@@red_dread Thanks for sharing. I think I am gonna take it to the collective in Davis. They have retro parts and offer help in situations like this. We started a small collective in our own town, but we are still amateurs at this point. KZread videos are a great help so far.

I use hairspray to take them off as well or air compressor if it’s handy.

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

Air compressor with a football needle! Now there's an idea...

@jjmoto65

3 жыл бұрын

@@red_dread my friend worked in a bicycle shop in the 90's and the air compressor was the quick easy way to get grips off. You dont even need a needle just wrap your hand tight around the grip and put the nozzle at the edge of the grip and blast away. Wala and the grip blasts off.

When the rapid fire shifter first emerged onto the scene some of the riders who preferred thumb shifters would mount their thumbies under the bar for protection, myself included. Of course this would mean that the rear mech was now operated by the left hand etc. I was just wondering if you ever experimented with this configuration?

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

I never did, but one of my friends did and I read about it in MBUK. It was a clumsy mod, not least because of the reversal of the front and rear. Also it was almost immediately after Rapidfire came out that the "rebellion" started among riders loudly refusing to give up their old thumbshifters. I was one of those and proud so I didn't want mine to be hidden!

@ThisTimeTheWorld

Жыл бұрын

I tried LH to rear mech bc I use RH to front brake. I adapted in a week but put it back to the usual after the shifters got broken. There are tourney shifters making a comeback now. Rad. What's old is new again.

@ThisTimeTheWorld

Жыл бұрын

​@@red_dread I still like thumbies. Microshift and sunrace are making new issue ones. I want full friction shift though.

Spray isocol instead of wd40. It's slippery then evaporates. No mess

@red_dread

Жыл бұрын

Good shout. Worth having a can of that stuff for multiple uses actually.

@Tommyhearnsrighthand

Жыл бұрын

@red_dread haha yeah. I use it alot.

I'm looking for a video that shows how to open, clean and lube 90's thumb shifters to restore them to smooth shifting. If anyone knows, please reply.

@red_dread

Жыл бұрын

I've certainly not made such a video, but I can tell you it's a satisfying job. You have to be very careful prying off the plastic top cap so as not to crack it, and equally careful when opening the retaining nut underneath, because there's springs and tiny bearings in there for the indexing mechanism. I recommend taking it apart inside some sort of container to catch the bits that inevitably pop out. But the actual mechanism is super simple.

The awkwardly placed DX clamp bolt/screw thing is rubbish too.

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

It works fine if you happen to have the correct sized Japanese-style crosshead screwdriver, but the fact is a screwhead anywhere on a high end bike is an abomination! Thank heavens for the stainless 5mm Allen key bolts on the XT, that's more like it.

No mention of Suntour XC Thumbies?

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

Only because I never had any back in the day, nor on this small selection of bikes I had out on the day of filming. There are a few bikes with Suntour elsewhere on this channel, plus I was aware of Campag, Sachs and even Mavic thumbies in the magazines of the day, but never had the privilege of owning any. Unfortunately my personal story is a predictable straight line of Shimano, and I guess that's the case for many others.

They're available on the 'bay but some people are asking stupid money. I don't care because I have some already.......plus the deore and Suntour versions.

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

There's always plenty of choice on the market - except certain Suntour XC Pro models, which are like hen's teeth.

I hear David Attenborough narrating this ..

@red_dread

Жыл бұрын

It certainly deserves a prime time slot and a worldwide collector's DVD release, yes.

@kh455

Жыл бұрын

@@red_dread Yes, I agree. T'would be be very worthwhile in watching.

Dude, use compressed air to get your grips off.

@red_dread

2 жыл бұрын

That only works if the ends aren't cut off, and/or if they're not stuck on with adhesive! Those Oury ones are super sticky, but in every day use that's a good thing.

@justinlee1254

2 жыл бұрын

@@red_dread It has always worked for me hairspray or not, end caps or not. Maybe I just have the proper technique... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@thinkpadBentnoseTheBlind

2 жыл бұрын

@@red_dread I use these lil plastic syringes called monojects. they have a plastic fluted curved tip and can shoot air or water inside the grips and make it really easy. Just what i do.

You are wrong about using 7 speed shifters with an 8 speed cassette. The 8 speed cogs are spaced closer together and it will shift like crap if used with a 7 speed shifter.

@ronwhite8503

3 жыл бұрын

Mine work fine.

@badger67

3 жыл бұрын

Mine works fine too.

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

There were a few tricks to making it work, but of course the manufacturer never intended it nor wished to encourage it. The compatible XT rear mech helps, because the couple of degrees of float in the top jockey wheel compensated exactly for the couple of nanometres of discrepancy in the gear spacings. With a bit of fettling you can get it working perfectly well, if not "factory".

Laura lasted 10 seconds watching this :-)

@red_dread

3 жыл бұрын

Clearly not a respecter of history.