I'm a 43 year old male living with this. I left the church with high school, and it would be a couple of years of study and reflection before I would accept being an atheist, but the mentality never left me. I didn't do well in school due to unacknowledged depression and ADHD, so I was constantly derided for my "laziness" and "self-pity". These were exacerbated by religious indoctrination that taught me to be ashamed of myself. I grew up believing that I was not only unworthy of love, but to desire it any form was selfish, and (of course) anything having to do with sexuality was deeply sinful. Despite hearing that "all sin is sin" and "God forgives all who ask," there seemed to be an exception carved out for sex. Give into lust, or even feel it, and you'll be punished for eternity after a lifetime of punishment in this world. As a result I developed habits to keep me away from people, to avoid connections and attachments. Despite having left the church, I had already automatized avoidance behavior, disgusted at the weakness of those around me who gave in to their urges. You mentioned being developmentally behind ... I'm that guy. I should be, and feel like, a confident man seasoned in the ways of the world, and a reliable friend and companion, financially secure, decisive, and bold. In far too many ways, though, I'm still a child terrified of judgement and humiliation and being called out for selfishness and not just yielding to temptation but deliberately seeking it. I've endured loneliness for so long that I want anything but that, but the few times I have attempted to escape it have been so humiliating and painful that I return to loneliness and stay here for years. I often wish that part of me that desires companionship, acceptance, understanding, support, and affection would simply evaporate because I lack the skills to see that desire fulfilled.

@sweetpeabrown261

2 жыл бұрын

One of the first steps is to acknowledge and then talk with safe people about it. Atheist groups, counseling, good podcasts like this one. You've got a 20 year jump on me. We both still have time to "find our voice". Good luck my friend. It's tough sometimes to change our thoughts, but it does get easier.

@modifyremusic

2 ай бұрын

Thank you for sharing, helps me

@chynnhowe

15 күн бұрын

You seem extremely intelligent and self aware. I ask you to please not give up because people with your depth are rare and people need people like you. You should practice opening yourself up to rejection and embarrassment so that your brain eventually realizes that those things aren’t going to kill you. The more you do that, the more you can become more comfortable being your authentic self and grow confidence. Confidence and authenticity are the key to making good connections and relationships. With the way that you write and are capable of articulating yourself, I can tell that you are a great and deeply thoughtful person so I know that you can break free. You can do this.

I was brought up in a Jehovah's Witness household and have since left the movement in my early twenties. The religious education I received in my formative years and its skewed view of the world has made its marks on me. Even after being an atheist for many years, I still have to deal with anxiety issues due to this upbringing. It does get better thought. Thank you for the program and particularly this episode.

@michelelouisebrown2372

5 жыл бұрын

Hello Serge, I was brought up as a Jehovah's Witness myself. Because Armeggedon was coming, I was chased to do field work and didn't go through the normal stages of development, finding my career, etc. and it's had a devastating effect on me. Nice to meet you!

@Michael-fn2fu

4 жыл бұрын

Same here Serge & Michelle same here. . Been out for almost a decade and I'm still feeling the pain and loneliness of having lost my childhood and my family diagnosed with PTSD 5 years ago and can't work... Go figure. . . Still feel like I'm waiting for Armageddon . . . Now I'm learning about Religious trauma and it explains my issues so well

@MovieMakingMan

2 жыл бұрын

@@michelelouisebrown2372 Hi Michele, I’m sorry you had to endure that (and are still being affected by). I hope you’re doing a lot better now. Take care ❤️.

I’m Samantha from this call, and my relationship with my family has, in the last two years, really improved. They finally respect me, my rejection of their world view, and how I’m raising my daughter. We have a healthy relationship. I think a lot of people don’t understand that I *was* Christian until my child was about 2 or 3. Then I shed my belief and it was a...transition for my family. My mom was especially indoctrinated as a child. She genuinely believed that she was helping my child. This is why religion poisons everything...and why it’s so dangerous. My moms religion made her believe pouring water on my child’s head saves my child from eternal hellfire, but religion will drive otherwise sane, good people to commit all kinds of acts. Anyway. We good now fam.

@SandraTournemille

4 жыл бұрын

I can relate to your story as my Mom is always gifting my daughter religious books at birthday and holiday - even when we ask her to stop doing this. She also genuinely believes she is helping. It's a complicated situation because my parents have been a huge support to my family - especially financially. I feel indebted to them and have a hard time putting my foot down. Even though they did not baptize my daughter, they did take her to church and sunday school a couple times and I regret letting them take her. I want to be respectful of their beliefs, but also want to protect my daughter from this evangelical religion I grew up in. It's really tough when you carry the baggage of the "submissive" woman role in your family. Trying to get the courage rock the boat and survive the backlash can feel overwhelming. anyway, just wanted to let you know that I understand your perspective - it's not as simple as some would like to think.

@samanthamorgan8117

4 жыл бұрын

Sandra Tournemille thank you. Means a lot. My mom is so important to me and this was a hard part of our relationship. We’ve achieved common ground. Respect to you!

This podcast is so powerful. I needed to hear this today. RTS is very real and present in my life. Religion has separated me from my family, and all I want is for them to see how damaging religion actually is...

@dogmahacker8278

6 жыл бұрын

Me too.

@ianharvey8025

6 жыл бұрын

Pamela Goodkey à

At least a dozen times while listening to this I said to myself "that's what a narcissist does." The gaslighting, tearing down, hypocrisy, shaming, convincing she's crazy, etc. In a lot of ways it's easiest to understand religious abuse as simply being organized narcissism.

@sarahherr7601

5 жыл бұрын

Exactly!

@pameladeleone135

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly! Everything here that you said, is what I saw them do, here to me. It is the sickest thing on earth. CRUEL PEOPLE! Like Thomas Paine said, Only a cruel man would follow a cruel God. "So True"

@MovieMakingMan

2 жыл бұрын

If people are Christian they’re hurting others. They are supporting hate. No matter what brand of Christianity they are a member they are supporting these hate mongers. Just by believing anything in the Bible they are spreading hate, oppression, misogyny, racism and even crimes against others. Christianity is built on gaslighting people. There are no innocent Christians, or christians-light. Anyone supporting that destructive cult in any way are hurting others, societies and countries, whether knowingly or unwittingly.

@theologytherapist

Жыл бұрын

This is spot on!

@LifeIsThePrayer

5 ай бұрын

This idea isn’t completely new to me but I have to thank you. You just helped clarify a bit more why I kept attracting narcissist partners. Despite being an ex christian. How could I not if my own trauma had not yet been healed?

I was born and raised a mormon. I had/have a wonderful family and I had a really loving upbringing. I wasn't physically or sexually abused.... But it is only in recent months that I have come to recognise and acknowledge that the psychological and emotional abuse from being indoctrinated in a high demand religious group has been enormous and that this type of abuse or trauma is JUST as valid as those who experience physical or sexual abuse. Ten years after leaving the mormon church (at age 26), I still battle with the negative impact of the psychological and emotional abuse I experienced, from the fear and manipulation based mind control techniques that these high demand religions utilise to control its members. My inherent self worth, my self confidence, my self esteem, my sense of inner strength, my sexuality, my ability to think for myself, to question, to critic, to problem solve, to have confidence in my own ability to make choices and decisions in life.... all these things have been negatively affected by my upbringing in the mormon church. I know many mormons would argue that there is a lot of good in their church... and sure, if they can find the good and it makes them happy - good for them. But it didn't make me happy. It made me miserable. It made me hate myself. There is no good in an organisation that promotes teachings and beliefs that leads a person to wish to be dead rather than alive. Religious trauma is what I experienced. Thankfully now, I have come a long way in ten years and I am on the whole SO much happier without religion in my life. But the ongoing impact of leaving that "religion" at age 26 and having to reprogram my brain and everything about myself that I thought I knew.... that's massive and by far the hardest most traumatic experience I have ever had.

@bellezavudd

2 жыл бұрын

It is difficult and painful. However youre not a fulltime slave for cult lies anymore. Heres to your success at leaving and moving forward !! 🥂

I really hope Samantha stays in touch and realises she has friends all around the world. Friends who apparently think more highly of her right to raise her daughter as she sees fit than her own family. What a truly revolting act of betrayal and self-absorption. If my mum did that I could honestly never speak to her again.

@samanthamorgan8117

6 жыл бұрын

slarty bartfast I am Samantha, and this comment means so much. Thank you! It has been so helpful to get involved in atheist communities. I am such an activist, I have a few atheist pages on Facebook that are growing and I really draw strength from them when dealing with my family and issues between them and my child. Thank you for your kind words. :)

@siblinganon66

6 жыл бұрын

samantha smith Good luck to you.

I need to listen to this podcast more often. Seth is like the Mr. Rogers of Atheism.

@pixieonthemoon8633

6 жыл бұрын

...only Mr. Rogers didn't have a foreskin platter mention. I DEFINITELY have to listen more often!

@troyevitt2437

6 жыл бұрын

Or maybe Captain Kangaroo. The Captain, Bob Keeshan, was a secular humanist. Fred Rodgers was a Christian, albeit Presbyterian which at least isn't one of those Wrath and Damnation denominations.

@paradisecityX0

6 жыл бұрын

More like the Joel Olsteen of Atheism (oh wait, that's Dillahunty)

@paradisecityX0

6 жыл бұрын

Gina Rita Marie "Except there is no soul", so you say

@border2beachwithchipleach63

6 жыл бұрын

pixieonthemoon “Mr Rogers of atheism”. I love that!

I remember back in the 1970s I were in a pentecostal church. Every one of us were very dedicated and histrionic. After some time every one of us felt depressed. We stressed our feelings to the utmost. We then were much in calm, we could not be too much spiritual. Many of then abandoned the cult. I stayed more than 20 years before I read the Bible and discover that it was a book of crime

"Christianity invents a problem & then offers you a solution"- so on point!👏👏👏 I have her book, bought it soon as i left my religion christian cult in 2015. Definitely can relate to the trauma. Love this podcast!

@blkwomanisgod1sthumancarbo554

5 жыл бұрын

💍

@katarinatibai8396

2 жыл бұрын

💯🎯 - 100% gaslighting 😪

I agree with the first caller - it is one thing to walk away and leave, but quite another to totally rid yourself of all the crazy ideas and habits that you don't realize. It's been 25 years for me!!

l too had issues with my selfesteem long after l kicked faith to the curb. It took me a very long time to take back my hard earned victories which l had credited to the 'higher power'.As l think of those times, l am occasionally astounded at my own abilities. My heart gors out to former members of churches which practice ostracism. l mych respect those who have successfully rebuilt themselves after leaving. Especially when their family are still in the church and participate in the shunnings.

@bluwater1422

3 жыл бұрын

I went through the same thing when I left religion a couple of years ago but recently I stopped believing in god & now I feel better

I definitely experienced religious trauma. After being raised in a Baptist church, I began doing some reading for myself while I was in college (in the late 80s, early 90s), and found that there were a number of "problematic" issues with the Bible. These issues were many and varied, but chief among them in my mind at the time were the various passages where Jesus seemed to quite clearly predict that "the end times" and his second coming to establish his kingdom, and judge the whole world et cetera would happen within the lifetimes of some of the people he was speaking to at the time. I struggled to make sense of such problematic passages, but all the apologists' and pastors' answers seemed so contrived and full of tortured logic and mental gymnastics. I tried so hard to accept those explanations, but couldn't keep doubt from creeping in. The fear of "losing my salvation" began. Of course many Christians will say that if you are "truly saved", you can't lose it.... but whether I had ever been "truly" saved or not -- and how I would know if I was -- was just as much a concern. To believe in this salvation/damnation paradigm so hard that you experience sheer terror that your thoughts might cause you to end up falling on the wrong side of that line may seem paradoxical, but that was where I found myself, and it was mind-rending. At the time I had been convinced by the arguments of the likes of C.S. Lewis and Josh McDowell -- arguments I now see as fatally flawed -- that it was likely that Jesus really performed miracles and rose from the dead. But the previously mentioned issues with statements attributed to Jesus prompted fleeting rapid-fire chains of thought that went something like this: "What if he was wrong? But God couldn't be wrong! What if he wasn't God?!" I reflexively began to have thoughts about what else other than the "Spirit of God" could have enabled him to perform miracles. (Insert Dana Carvey's "Church Lady" here.) This, in combination with the fear of committing the "Unforgivable Sin" of "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" (thanks for that one, Christianity) put me into a mode of recurring obsessive-compulsive panic attacks -- sometimes right in the middle of a class -- wherein I feared my own stray thoughts, and feverishly went over and over in my mind asking myself if I had really thought this or that other thing at this time or that time. It caused me to be an emotional wreck throughout a number of my college years, hampering me socially, academically, mentally, and emotionally. After a few years of this, on and off (but mostly on) I finally became so exhausted by it all that I suddenly found my mind just going blank on the issue; I couldn't keep trying to ram the square pegs of the explanations invented by myself or the apologists into the round holes of the contradictions and problems, while mentally and emotionally beating myself up. It was like entering the calm eye of a raging storm. I realized that I just couldn't -- simply *didn't* believe it anymore. It was a relief, but I was also depressed and traumatized for a long time afterward; this thing I had clung to all my life up to that point, the thing that I had built the meaning of my life around, the thing that defined my very identity--- it had vanished (but not before causing a reaction in my mind that put me through years of my own personal hell on Earth). I could no longer believe it even if I wanted to. I felt lost, not knowing who I was, or what to do with myself. I felt almost as if my "self" had been erased. After a while, I pretty much got over that, and although I am still not the happiest guy you will ever meet (maybe some lingering effects are still with me), it is so nice to be able to be intellectually honest with myself, to question everything, and to admit I don't know something if I don't. It is nice not to fear my own thoughts and how they might offend some all-powerful being with a wrathful streak described in horrific detail in his "holy book".

His voice is so calming. It's so reassuring to listen to him support people.

Having struggled with a learning disability my whole life (and only finding out about it recently), my adoptive family's "mental illness doesn't exist" and "if there's anything bad in your life, it's because you aren't right with God" attitude had me honestly believing I was a cursed, vile thing. I fought to maintain a relationship in high school because I felt like I had to (asexual), and she was my best friend so I figured the right thing to do was marry her after graduation. Of course, that fell through because she too was under the impression that my melancholy, my weight gain, and my slipping university grades weren't because I have a learning disability, or PTSD from witnessing the murder of my birth mother, or depression fueled by being told by those I love that people like me are scum; no, it was because I wasn't "right with God" and I "don't really want to get better." So long story short, engagement breaks off, family disowns me, and all my religious friends bail. Funny thing is, this isn't what broke my faith. It was my roommate (/best friend/is "mostly-platonic boyfriend" a thing?") who turned me towards Aron Ra. I was a Biblical literalist, but a very curious one who actually wanted to understand, and Aron actually showed me that the proof I was taught doesn't exist against the Bible really did exist. My adoptive family and church community were never physically abusive, but the damage they did to my mind is something I'm still working on.

Boy this made me so mad! The poor lady with the seven year old child being betrayed really raised my temperature. If she really has to stay in touch with her family, I sincerely hope that they are never allowed to be alone with her daughter. What a dreadful, subversive and untrustworthy family. It makes my blood boil.

@samanthamorgan8117

6 жыл бұрын

Roger Froud thank you. I have created clear boundaries. It was an awful experience I talk to my daughter every day about why religion is Bs. But I am exposing her to more than just Christianity so she can have a better grasp on the fact that out of all the religions Christianity certainly isn't the right one...and they're all wrong.

@rogerfroud300

6 жыл бұрын

Hi Samantha, thank you so much for replying. I feel for your predicament, it must be so difficult for you. The USA is years behind the UK in shedding religion, so it's hard for us to appreciate just how big a deal it is for you. I had to go to Church when I was a child, but was allowed to quit the youth group so long as I told them why I wasn't going to attend any more. That was a Baptist Church, but nothing like as intimidating as the flavour you have. I think my parents were luke warm Christians anyway, but it must still have been embarrassing for them. I wish you well, and can only suggest that you arm yourself with the best arguments from the likes of Sam Harris and Daniel Dennett whose eloquence on the subject is remarkable. There are some superb KZread presentations by them.

@legalfictionnaturalfact3969

6 жыл бұрын

it seems like it's money keeping the woman from ditching her parents. she has GOT to find a way out of that need for money from them. it's hard, it sucks, but she HAS TO DO IT FOR HERSELF AND CHILD. that cannot be stressed enough.

@fricketyfracktraintrack

5 жыл бұрын

@Phelan whenever someone tries to hit me with the "family is blood," or "blood is thicker than water" thing, I like to remind them that the full quote is actually "the blood of the *pact* is thicker than the water of the womb," which means the exact opposite. The bonds you choose to form with others are more important than those you just have familial ties to, something you have no control over. A lot of sayings like that have been hijacked to discourage thinking for oneself and leaving troublesome and abusive situations.

@lisahenry20

4 жыл бұрын

@@fricketyfracktraintrack I bring up the actual quote whenever someone says blood is thicker than water too. Although whenever I've said or heard it it's blood of the covenant rather than pact.

58:00 I haven't bawled like this in a while. I am thankfully still married. My wife is definitely still in the religion, but she is a bit Progressive and accept me for who I am. My oldest son and I have had a lot of really good conversations and I think that he's made it past the religion stage. I'm so glad that you guys were able to find the truth together. I don't really know how to express how this makes me feel. Elation over someone else's joy in this arena I guess is benefit enough.

I was raised mormon. And I've now come to realize from this video RTS is certainly could describe me. I couldn't even watch Big Love, the tv series about Mormon polygamists, with out experiencing extreme anxiety and anger. I could barely see straight. I've also struggled with self worth and my sexuality is all but non existent because of the fears instilled in me by religion. I don't believe closeness like that with another person could ever happen. It is incredibly depressing. This channel helps so much.

1:06:30 is the time stamp for when Marlene Winell is introduced (in case anyone is visiting (or revisiting) specifically to hear her speak).

That kidnap story gives me the creeps.. I wish someone would have called the police. I'm glad she's okay now but wow.. wow.

@lesliemarchant4751

5 жыл бұрын

I'm better than okay, I got the hell out of Alabama! Thanks for your good thoughts.

@IheartDogs55

3 жыл бұрын

Why weren't the police called? Those boys have internalized that they can break the law with impunity. With all the sexual abuse in churches these days, it's chilling they got away with this & now pastor churches. They're moral monsters.

I was Catholic for 10 years, back and forth from Non-denominational Christianity and Church of Christ for 4 years, and got baptized...took my Shahada and was Muslim for 4 years, became agnostic when I first questioned Noah's Ark back in January 2017. I was still calling myself Muslim until around October 2017. I finally stopped lying to myself a few weeks ago and am an Atheist. "Atheist:" It's not a bad word. Do I really believe all of the animals of the world got onto a boat? Do I really believe Muhammad got on a horse and flew to Heaven? Do I really believe women are worth half as much as men? I haven't even touched the surface, but this is the stuff you HAVE to believe or else, you question God...which sends you to Hell. I don't miss feeling trapped and feeling like a dirty rag that has to clean up someone else sins. Or a slave to Allah that can easily be replaced...and who will ignore my prayer (salat) if I have a dog in my house, or a picture of my Grampa on the wall (research it, hahaah!). :-)

@nandinibandhini

6 жыл бұрын

Good for you! I wish you all the best. Thanks for sharing.

@Yeiyn343

6 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much! :-)

I have been an atheist all my life, so I haven't had to deal directly with the trauma caused by religion. However, I've seen what it has done to some friends of mine over the years. My best friend from the time I was in Junior High all the way till my late 20's became a bible thumping, fundamentalist in the lead up to his marriage. This hard drinking, drug using guy I'd known for 15 years suddenly decided he needed saving, his fiance had convinced him of this. Suddenly, he was criticizing me for my language use. Saying "God Dammit!" was suddenly a lecture worthy offense. His piety and holier than thou attitude made sharing an apartment impossible. We went our separate ways and we haven't spoken since. That was about 20 years ago and I still shake my head in disgust. Religion cost me my best friend.

I suffer from the RTS, but I'm getting better. Sadly, I've had to do it on my own. As a gay child it was hell growing up in the Church, but though I strayed, I returned and stayed as an adult. It was hell then, being there, but it was hell leaving. I grew up the son of a West Texas Southern Baptist, attended a Christian School for Head Start and grew up in a bubble. I was raised during the great Satanic Panic and so that was fun.

@user-hi3bn8pe5l

2 жыл бұрын

Omg! raised during that era too!

I'm fighting back. Having carried this backpack full of sin for about 55 years, plus the fact religion plays the hell card, I'M FIGHTING BACK!!!!!!! After reading the bible it turned me into a full blown ATHEIST!!!!! I AM NOT A SINNER, do you hear me religion? I AM NOT A SINNER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When I see in the animal world doing the same things we are accused of, like murder, stealing, homosexuality, I AM NOT A SINNER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When I see in the bible that god murders, then I can safely say he is a sinner then too. If god murders, if god is jealous, if god is petty, unforgiving, infanticidal, filicidal, genocidal, capricious, pestilential, megalomaniacal, and a racist!!!!!!!!!! then your god is a sinner too. AND THIS HELL????????? It is man made. I fear none of this man made childish fairy tales anymore.

@amandagarcia2848

6 жыл бұрын

Reading the Bible is a good way to turn a person into an atheist!

@Yeiyn343

6 жыл бұрын

Ex-Catholic, Ex-Christian, Ex-Church of Christ (Christian), Ex-Muslim: God in the Bible has killed men, women, children, babies, animals, blamed women for being raped because there were in the wrong place, killed 70,000 people over $3.00, "dashed" open pregnant mothers and killed them and their babies, stabbed babies, Moses taking over the land of Canan...killing everyone there. God killed a man in (Hosea?) the Bible for tripping over a rock, almost dropping the Ark of the Covenant. Islam has similar stuff, but allows a husband to rape his wife, women are only worth half as much as men, throw gay people off the top of buildings (Ibn Abbas; Hadith), etc. I don't want to rant, because then nobody will read this, haha! "Prophet Muhammad, SAW (peace and blessings), went to Jannah (Heaven) on a winged horse." Everyone had a dead serious face. That was another nail in the coffin, ready to leave Islam. :-)

@exzoro8193

6 жыл бұрын

Kendall A I left islam twenty years ago.

@Yeiyn343

6 жыл бұрын

Are you happier in life? I just recently got rid of the guilt baggage, and the fear of Hell. Also, what made you leave Islam? :-)

@exzoro8193

6 жыл бұрын

Kendall A I left when I was around 20, am forty now. So, pretty much the faith or the lack of it afterwards never shaped my outlook of life. I can't really say I'm "happier", but I have a pretty fulfilling (as can be) life with no "baggage". I just slid out of belief reading and researching qur'an and islam (with the limited resources and information available back then) with no rancour or anger. But two things led me to confirm to myself of my apostasy: the concept of "hell" and the Rushdie affair and the reactions of even "moderate and modern" muslims towards the issue (I came to know about that drama after a good decade of the events).

I grew up in Texas in and around all kinds of Christianity, I never believed but my mother forced me to go to church and put me in christian schools. Needless to say I’m a lot happier now free from the cult of Christianity but Christian hypocrisy tends to anger me and sometimes it’s out of nowhere. One time I was jogging on a Saturday morning in the park, one that was right down the street from where I used to live, and a church organization had set up in he park with a loud PA system and tables of food for the homeless/hungry... but there was a catch. As I was walking down from the run I noticed that people were being turned away. I found myself in a curious state of mind so I inquired why they were turning people away, they were turning away a few people who one could tell were definitely homeless and in need. I found out that in order to get the food you had to go sit in the roped off area of chairs that were set up in front of the preacher who was talking, not chairs with tables to eat on, but just rows of chairs like the ones in a church. Essentially they were making these people sit and listen for a certain amount of time (I don’t know how long) in order to receive a plate. Out of nowhere I just got this overwhelming feeling of disgust, it really made me so angry... so angry that I immediately ran down the street to my apartment, and started making sandwiches with everything we had in our apartment... lunch meat, peanut butter, etc. My wife walked by and asked what I was doing and I explained to her what was happening down the street so she started helping me, we used all the bread and meat we had. We took the sandwiches back to the park and handed them out to the people being turned away and even the ones who were sitting in their sh!tty little roped off makeshift church area. I really can’t stand Christianity and all the hypocrisy it comes with. If a person needs a HUMAN SACRIFICE narrative (like Christianity IS) to provide you with a moral compass... well perhaps they are the ones who are actually, completely lost... due to the state of their sh!tty compass.

@GreatMindsSeekTruth

3 ай бұрын

This made my heart smile. You turned a revolting situation into a big-hearted, compassionate, caring, tactful, public-spirited act of kindness. I adore noble humans like yourself & your wife. We need more just like you two! Never stop being your thoughtful selves ❤

Thank you for this podcast. When I first set out to seek help for my past traumas all I could find were blogs about women who's husband's wouldn't LET them go to church or wouldn't go themselves 🙄 I'm absolutely exhausted trying to find a therapist in my area that isn't religious or at the very least keeps their religious views to themselves while they treat a patient. I'm still working at it. I can see where many people would have given up and killed themselves by this point, some days I consider it.

Samantha's story is so common. If a grandparent is helping to raise a child (we are) they can have input, however, if the parent of the child has specific wants, by gosh the grandparents have to respect them. In Samantha's case I would have dumped my relationship with my mother. I don't care if Samantha wants a good relationship, her mom has pretty much lost any input or contact.

@criticismcat7532

6 жыл бұрын

I know right! I'll never understand people who want to continue a relationship with their family members who betray them so thoroughly. Allow me to use myself as an example although I'd argue I have a good relationship with my family...I never knew my father, I don't hate this nor do I like this (Neutral)...but if I heard he's dying...I'd just turn back around to my computer and return to whatever I was doing, he didn't want to have a relationship with me, I don't care to seek one out with him, I don't give a shit what happens to him, I have no reason to care for him. If a member of my family did something that actively goes against my wishes in which they KNEW I'd strongly disapprove of then I would treat them the same way I treat my father, I hold no requirement to care about you, go bother someone else. If I deem someone unworthy of my time, then you're as good as dead to me, that doesn't mean I'll wish harm upon you, just that if harm did happen to fall upon you...you'd be more likely to get sympathy out of a cat. I'm also more likely to ignore that person when they try to have a normal conversation, don't do everything in your power to piss me off then act all buddy buddy chums with me, that's what bullies at my school did, I didn't tolerate it then, I won't tolerate it now.

best thing to do is move you and your child to the other end of the country--- without notice. Relationships can be poison

Got a like early in thanks to the opening statement......this is the reason I don't want to raise my daughter in religion, I want her to think for herself. And the kidnap story is incredibly fucked up....you should have pressed charges.

@PhantomQueenOne

6 жыл бұрын

Absolutely, that's would have happened if I was her mom. Kidnapping is kidnapping.

Just saw this video! Going to watch it later. Last year I found myself in a very dark place looking for answers and healing about my traumatic religious past growing up fundie. I found Dr. Winell’s book and it helped so much!!

Seth, you and several others have let me know that I'm not crazy or alone in my atheism...Thank you for all that you do and I'd really like to meet you. Perhaps if you come up to Toronto again some time in the future..

Not sure if this counts but when I was around 6 after a particularly energetic Sunday school class we learned all about hell all the torture and suffering all that fun stuff. Well it freaked me out enough to prey to die as a child so I wouldn't have a chance to sin.

Seth, thanks so much for the work you do! I’ve recently deconverted and your story was such an encouragement to me. Keep up the great work…it’s definitely making a difference in the world ❤️

Very timely Seth I had spoke to my previous pastor who told me I was a prodigal son who needed to turn back to God and church life.And I appreciate Dr Wendell for speaking briefly on the pschology of such beliefs sometimes its like walking in two worlds:The responsibility of working in the real world and yet getting pulled into Christianity.To the pastor who was actually willing to move me to the town he lives in on one condition if he helped me find work and to be put in a place to live as long as I go to church.To which I kindly refused.This is very refreshing to hear about people I can literally relate to.And yes that pastor did talk about some people he knew were going to hell.Coming from a very fundamentalist group I grew up in the UPC and the church I was raised in, brake away from the UPC organization into a independent Apostolic church because they consider the UPC to be too wordly.So as I listened to this video I realized I am going in the right direction leaving behind all the church's indoctrination and building a life for myself no matter the struggle and it is nice to hear Im not alone.

Very thoughtful and inspiring podcast as always Seth !

I'm gonna be very honest. I miss some of it y'all!! I miss the narcissistic feeling of being special & the feeling that big guy in the sky is looking out for me. Angels surrounding me for protection, those fairy tales we believed were so comforting! At first I felt soooooo free, but now I feel a little sad, empty & lonely. I'm just being real🤷‍♀️ where do we now find comfort & hope in this cold, cruel world?

@kimberlycam1172

3 жыл бұрын

Dear Angel: It’s certainly understandable. With any change there is a loss. I have felt lonely for years and have had a sense that I just don’t quite fit in. This is normal for people and our circumstances. Perhaps we can befriend one another, through messaging.

@bmoe4609

Жыл бұрын

I dont miss it. It caused me alot of loss n puttin up with abuse n stuff. I miss none of the manipulation. You first gotta love yourself, learn to be okay to be alone in this world. Then make friends but be wise dont put up with bs nor do stuff u dont wanna do. Be you n be safe. Find a hobby, there so much to offer. At most unfortunately there are assfaces tht make this place sour, i try not to think on it much. Just learn to protect yourself, it normal if u get scared or pained to see it. Just dont let them take away your wanted destiny unless the unfathomable death hit you, i would live my life positivitily

@GreatMindsSeekTruth

3 ай бұрын

This just goes to show how true it is that people use God/religion as a crutch. It reassures them that everything will be fine, so they can hide from the harshness of reality. Weak people use it as a guide, mostly out of FOG ( Fear/Obligation/Guilt.) They never want anyone to rattle their religious cages that they cling to ever so tightly, out of simple fear of mortality. You are no longer under some mass delusional spell…religion doesn’t work without fear. Just be a good, kind, compassionate person & try ( I say try because I’m still working on this part) to live life fully while you’re here…because once it’s done, it’s done. We can have ethics & morals instilled in us..without a book of fairy tales. This is coming from someone who was raised Jehovah Witness & then discarded//kicked out/shunned ( 5 months before turning 17) by my overzealous, uncompromising father. I am 46 now, but what I endured after becoming homeless/ending up in physically abusive relationships/pill addiction trying to numb it all…created a trauma snowball. Pain always finds its way to the surface, no matter how deep you bury it…..but we are conquerers!Best wishes to you all! ❤

So glad that your wonderful guest is so educated and intelligent. So glad that Neil Carter got a shout out for all the great work that he has done and does. So glad that the people from WBB were not part of this important episode. I might be able to start listening to TTA again on a regular basis as this episode has made me feel that you do, in fact, have integrity after all. (screen grabbed just in case you delete this)

SO happy and lucky I grew up in The Netherlands, a, by now, mostly NON Religious country. All of my childhood no one really bothered me with religion, therefore I was never religious. And a PROUD ATHEIST! Always saw right through the rituals and scare tactics. No RTS for me.

On someone trying to 'educate' kids about religion. I'm all for education. it's an interesting subject to shove down someone's throat, especially when they open that door. lnvite them to attend the next gathering at the local mosque. Drag both the child and the educator to the nearest Cathedral for a high mass. Head over to the local temple and have the child talk to the Rabbi about Jesus. Take a long weekend and attend an old style 3day long tent revival. Buy both the kid, and the educator a copy of 'Hinduism for Dummies'. Introduce the kid to the tao. Explain Budism and the difference between the theist/nontheist among them. Have the child read up on Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Norse or other mythology. Reminding others of the blatant similarities with stories in the holy book about Jesus. Yea, the point is to educate them both. Mayhaps it will payoff.

@amandagarcia2848

6 жыл бұрын

Stephanie Cuellar I think that is a great idea! Expose the kids to multiple religions that all claim to be right. They all can't be right, they can all be wrong!

@Chamelionroses

6 жыл бұрын

I do this, and try not to indoctrinate at the same time. I don't know if they listen but hopefully they will see different religions and ideas with questions and thinking things through.

@nandinibandhini

6 жыл бұрын

Fantastic response! I am fully with you on this idea. Greetings.

Thanks for this upload. I didn't grow up in a religious household, for those who did I can better understand it thank you as a fellow okie.

I like the call-in format

Religious entitlement annoys me to know end !

I had a parent who was abusive and excessively needy. I told a friend of my fears and he asked me if my father was an adult. He then said my father is capable of caring for himself and sometimes divorcing yourself from an abusive parent is warranted for my own well being. I divorced my father and had little interaction w him for decades. It saved my sanity. I was able at the end of his life to forgive his trespasses and spent the last two years of his life caring for him because it made me feel good about myself. He was a hypocritical roman catholic who never apologized to me for his abuses upon me but he was forgiven by the church so said his priest. I am now an atheist. This podcast resonates w me. Thank you for these insights.

The beginning of this podcast is extremely powerful.

Thankyou for this!

thanks for this, never felt so alone since i left the church, not one of the so called brothers or paster has ever enquired into how i am. just hate religion

I hope you do another one of these, I would love to call and share

needed this, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

1:06 is when Marlene Winell is introduced.

Hey! Can you get your podcast on Spotify as well? It might be a good platform to expand for you :)

Why is this no longer on Seth's channel? l had to go back to my own playlist to gain access to it. Why?

Another good podcast.

Where can I find the cartoon Seth describes in the opening about a child asking his mom to abuse him with religion? Respond if you know! Thanks!

mormon exposure dude has deep issues of his own, his experiance was just another in his lifetime of tradegy to follow

That dude was a grown ass man mooching off of his friend. I don't see how he's the victim here

My sympathies to all of those who participated in the latest podcast for The Thinking Atheist

How about being hounded out of church because I have prostate cancer. It’s not as if I was just a pew warmer. I was previously an active member. But they did not want me there at all.

Great show!

I appreciate that Samantha continues to demonstrate moral superiority in respecting others' philosophy even when they utterly disrespect hers. But I think she's bending too far. Honesty would require that she acknowledge that her parents have violated her trust and convinced her that they have no place in her daughter's life. She owes it to her daughter out of loyalty to protect her from these poisonous influences. But the only way out of the programming is THROUGH now: can't feign ignorance now that the cat's out of the bag! YOU *MUST* TEACH THAT KID ABOUT THE BIBLE TO DEMONSTRATE HOW "GOD" IS AN _EVIL MONSTER._ Introduce her to the unforgivable atrocities perpetrated by those who excuse their actions through a god.

@amandagarcia2848

6 жыл бұрын

Damn! Just be careful about what sections to do over with the daughter. I would skip near all of Judges, and many parts of Genesis unless she thinks her daughter is ready.

@AmazingAutist

6 жыл бұрын

Amanda Garcia it depends. I'll round 7 years old kids know about death and murder. Not too graphic detail, but to know that people kill people, and that is bad. So she can paraphrase it and read the passages to her daughter, but in a way that s child would understand.

@chezeus1672

6 жыл бұрын

i'd start with 40 years in the desert story, and show her on google maps they could have arrived after a few weeks by just following the coast line; it's a story you can tell without mentioning genocide, and it still shows how bad a choice relying on god is. don't tell her what to think, let her come to her own conclusions by telling the story and asking the right questions. she has probably heard of noah's flood already, christians love to tell that story to children... ask her what she thinks happened to those animals who didn't make it to the ark. also, don't let your parents anywhere near your daughter anymore, at least for a few years. they abused your trust once, don't let them get away with it.

Manipulation IS abuse. And one shouldn't minimize their trauma simply because "others have it so much worse."

Much love to all the brave women who shared your story. As you journey into the world please know you are strong. Don't swap your Pastor for another Secular person. Yes there are like minded women.

Thank you. That's all I can say right now.

first caller: SHE IS HEDGING WITH THAT "I DON'T NEED TO BADMOUTH, I WOULDN'T CALL IT ABUSE" LINE. *IT'S ABUSE. THOSE PEOPLE ARE SHIT. END OF.*

One of the most helpful ideas I heard was by Prof Richard Wiseman in his book "59seconds" - that from the example of- if you are told not to think of an elephant then it will actually be more likely that you will think of an elephant. If you have been obsessively worrying over and over about an issue then that issue is going to become memorized to the point where you have developed a mental rut to slip into. So apart from thinking about the reasons why your worry is not real or exaggerated you also need something on a completely different topic to focus on. It is helpful to pick sports , hobbies, crafts, research subjects which you find all consuming, which engage your attention. I go windsurfing as it is complex, ever changing, I like seeing the waves, the sea is different every time, it's therapeutic somehow. This is a gross exaggeration but ; whatever the Bible says then think the opposite. I mean consider, not do. [Note definitely do not do anything illegal or harmful to others] It helps to read at least a summary of the whole history of religion & comparative religion, Even just looking at the dates when each religion started. Look at the ideas of the Ancient Egyptians & Babylonians. Look at how the ideas of Hades & Tartarus were first seen in the Greek religious thought- a culture which the O.T would have condemned as evil just because everything not from Moses was evil. There is a book called, "What the hell"(2011) by Jackson Baer that was worth a look, not saying I agreed 100%. Also the KZread channel Tentmaker777 ministry ideas of universalism. Like in the fictional story of David & Goliath- pick the pebble of the Golden rule and sling it at the giant God to strike his forehead cause the idea of sending others to hell when you would never send yourself there is contrary to the Golden rule and will topple God. When god falls you will see he was just men behind a mask of god. Cut his head off with the knowledge of the facts about our universe that science & technology have revealed. In John 15 it advises to prune the vine. Well maybe the scriptures need pruned back. First up rewrite 2 Timothy 3v16 as:"No scriptures are god breathed because there is not real god." However there are still a few decent ideas in the Bible such as 'do not worship false gods' .Actually after googling i find that the Bible doesn't even have that idea, its authors thought there were other gods. The O.T authors thought you should worship Yahweh and the N.T authors thought it should be the God of hades, Ok so there isn't as much good in the Bible as i thought but still 1 The golden rule (Matt 7v12), 2 Love does no harm (Romans 13v10) , 3 Don't murder (which again really outlaws putting people in hell), 4 from Galations 5v22 ~"There is no law against love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, humility, self control" but if you try to practice these qualities by saying that it isn't loving to let a hell come into existence & fail to eliminate it before folk get harmed then the authors of the N.T.god/Jesus would ignore your complaints and damn you along with everyone else. Actually the bible does have a law against kindness; it is called the law of sin and death where there is a default position that everyone is doomed unless god has fore -chosen them. Well that law has got to be one of the most cruel psychological ideas humans have ever imagined. As for most of the rest of the Bible you can laugh at it, for unlike the authors of the O.T I see no need to physically smash stuff. All it takes is the recognition that it isn't true or real.

Great broadcast. Your friend and secret Atheist "Big Country"

Seth could you make an updated version of this for all of us who are now also having to deal with the government trying to force the religion we thought we'd escaped from back into the most intimate decisions of our lives? Roe v Wade is not merely about a woman's right to choose, it is about everything from Planned Parenthood, LGBTQ+ Rights, the Right to Interacial Marriage & every other decision/ruling that has been directly attached to Roe v Wade in the last 50 years.

religion is just a worship, all the morals, the character building, the lessons and all other good stuff, it didn't come from religion, it came from somewhere else...

@Cory_Springer

6 жыл бұрын

It came from religion

@hakureikura9052

6 жыл бұрын

nope, wrong, religion is just a tool to frighten people to following the chosen culture, religion once declared that stoning people to death is perfectly ok, religion also says beheading is ok, religion also says slavery is ok, morals don't come from religion religion is made up by people to scare the shit outta people into doing what they want...

@AmazingAutist

6 жыл бұрын

It came from us bruh. It's not that hard.

@carltoncoleman454

6 жыл бұрын

It would be safe to say that the whole concept of God came from us.... The morality and ethics are just something that exists for our own survival and the elevation of mankind as well as other species of life which has their own set of morals and ethics.

@MicahBuzanANIMATION

4 жыл бұрын

@@Cory_Springer And where did religion come from?

imagine being a 10 year old catholic and every easter instead of being joyful and taking pictures with the easter bunny you’re crying because your parents have told you that the reason a man got crucified to a wooden cross was because of you and your daily sin and that everytime you lie or misbehave you are nailing deeper the nails in his hands and applying more thorns to his crown.....that’s fcking child abuse !!!!! no child should be told that!!! my parents wonder why i have so much resentment towards them when my childhood was stolen!

@bellezavudd

2 жыл бұрын

Definitely abuse. Rest assured many of us out here also had an 'F'-ed up childhood.

I'd like to see this doctor do a study on Reverse-Fundamentalist Syndrome. How Anti-theists are similar to holier-than-thou fundamentalists in behavior and psychology. Encouraging groupthink, hero worship, blind loyalty to the ideology, etc.

I've be dealing with extreme paranoia for over a decade. My problem with paranoia would take sometime to fully explain so I just want to focus on this one connection to trama due in part to religious indoctrination. Coincidences have been a key in my mental disorder, I've been working out the mysteries behind them and progressing with healthier mental models in relation to existences natural interconnections. Life can be complicated enough in it's mysteries without attaching it to supernatural tyrants. And I think without such agencies to manipulate the mind away from patient exploration discovery can be more secure, more enjoyable, so more beautiful.

I never knew my maternal grandfather. I took care of my aunt and mother when they got cancer in the same year. They finally told me about their minister father who would rape them and make them kneel ... to pray that Jesus would forgive them for their sins. A lifetime of witnessing their odd behaviors made brutal sense in that one moment. It was as big as a skyscraper and I never had a clue.

"Furries For Christ"...good lord. Yiffing for Jesus...

@IheartDogs55

3 жыл бұрын

I wonder why no one called the police.

The second caller sounded so much like my own relationship with my mother. I think the only difference is that I don't have kids and if my mom ever did that I would drop go off and just give up on that relation ship

@samanthamorgan8117

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah it's tough. I'm Samantha. And it's frickin tough. Like I said, aside from religion my mom and I get along swimmingly. But this was a horrific betrayal.

Oooo, Ds story where her son teases her with "mom you're an atheist just admit it" is a bit triggering to me. Being gay it's really personal and painful to say "I'm gay" out loud. I could say "i like men only" but not "I'm gay" at that time. And its very painful to have someone try to force you to say it explicitly. Sometimes you have to let people accept it internally before you can say it externally. Eh he's a kid so he is given some leeway. But someone should inform him that its not benifital to push someone to say it out loud.

I'm 40. I've been out as an atheist for 2 years. Previously, I was a baptist. From birth, I was an independent, fundamental, king james version only, missionary baptist. I left and came back a few times, eventually moving to more liberal less fundy southern baptist churches until finally realizing what a lie it all was. Anyway, now I'm a lonely, depressed, confused, angry atheist who only finds other bitter or apathetic people in the atheist echo chamber. I'm told it gets better but the truth is, I wouldn't go back from truth and reason to believing in a fairytale even if it would offer relief.

@Liz-mm1sy

6 жыл бұрын

Spaghoni I’m sorry you’re dealing with that. I hope it gets better for you. I’d say your outlook of accepting the knowledge that we have now is a good start. Good luck to you.

@Liz-mm1sy

6 жыл бұрын

Your comment stuck with me. I was listening to a different documentary and thought maybe it would be helpful to you. It’s called why I no longer believe in god by mike mal. It’s on KZread. The last two sections are what I think would be useful to you. Starting at around 1 hour and 7 minutes. The whole thing is worth listening to but at the end point was when your comment came back to me.

@tapatton9

6 жыл бұрын

Thank you. I will watch it.

@EdwardOberon

6 жыл бұрын

Spaghoni it does get better. the more life experiences you have, the better it will become. it takes time to let the rubbish leave from your mind. it definitely takes time, but it is absolutely worth it.

The woman who had her child baptized, it sounded like you want a limited relationship with your mom, but she seems very open to a relationship and you could use her to keep in touch with others that are more difficult, if you want of course. But also as a mother myself - Your Have a giant influence with your mom, you might be able to get her help too.

Seria maravilhoso se alguém pudesse traduzir esse vídeo para a Língua Portuguesa do Brasil. Please!🙏🙏🙏

I grew up in a half religious family. My mom is catholic (however doesn’t buy into creationism as literal) and my dad is atheist. My mom being the religious one brought us to all the RE programs and mass on Sunday. I vividly remember my bible school teacher saying anyone who didn’t accept Jesus into their life would suffer in hell. To me this meant my dad. Which was ludicrous because he wouldn’t even hurt a fly. I had a great childhood but this is one of my clearest memories... sadly.

Religious Trauma Syndrome is really a thing in psychology. And the symptons are very bad. Cognitive: Confusion, difficulty with decision-making and critical thinking, dissociation, identity confusion Affective: Anxiety, panic attacks, depression, suicidal ideation, anger, grief, guilt, loneliness, lack of meaning Functional: Sleep and eating disorders, nightmares, sexual dysfunction, substance abuse, somatization Social/cultural: Rupture of family and social network, employment issues, financial stress, problems acculturating into society, interpersonal dysfunction Developmental delay: emotional, intellectual, social, and sexual immaturity resulting from the control of information and discouragement of critical thinking within the religious environment.

It certainly can induce pathology.

Wow, that kidnap gig would have ended in a blood splattered bad time for them! Unholy shit!!!

@lesliemarchant4751

5 жыл бұрын

I tried, brother. I damn sure tried! (I'm the kidnap chick)

@sarahherr7601

5 жыл бұрын

@@lesliemarchant4751 I would have called 911 to report a kidnapping.

@lesliemarchant4751

3 жыл бұрын

@@sarahherr7601 thank you

The teachings regarding hell are the most damaging. I refuse to allow anyone to scare my kids with that bullshit.

Not only did I experience a marriage of mental abuse, its was compounded by the Christian church we were members of for 13 years that protected him and shamed me for leaving the marriage and then the church. I left with PTSD Not one woman from the women's ministry ever reached out during this time. It made me question Christianity Because of all the spiritual abuse that occurred. The spiritual abuse that continued after our divorce towards our children was insidious. I lost my children in thier teens due to extreme Christian brainwashing against me.

Leslie was great! What's her KZread channel?

@lesliemarchant4751

5 жыл бұрын

Kidnap Leslie? I've got nothing but cat videos on my channel. Look up "feeding time for 9 cats". I think my name here is jtklove.

I homeschooled my kids- but it had nothing to do with religioun; I just wanted them schooled well rather than head pumped full of shit. hence 2 of my kids began high school, and non secular course, at 15, and finished 9 months later and one went into college. All our homeschool materials for the most part came from the public librry. But I wish i had found the Rich Dad poor Dad materials before they finished

@Chamelionroses

6 жыл бұрын

James Staples V that stereotype about homeschooling is annoying. I agree one can have secular homeschooling.

The first caller was abused whether she wants to say the words aloud, it was abuse and it is very unfortunate that she still has thoughts about "should I wear this?" etc.

I would be shocked beyond belief if there is a single person in Alabama that doesn't have some degree of religious trauma. Some suffer like me, some profit like televangelists, and some just enjoy it like Roy Moore clearly does. As much as I wish I could, I just can't shake my belief that such things exist, despite having lost my faith over a decade and half ago. My lack of belief in God is more along the lines of a small child trying unsuccessfully to convince himself that there are no monsters hiding under the bed or in the closet. Losing your faith is not simply a part of growing up, not at all like no longer believing in Santa. Losing my faith was less like no longer believing in Santa and more like finding out that he was actually Krampus.

Luckily I don't get traumatized. I was quiet at first but slowly I was reveling my real thoughts about god and religion. I still get ganged up now and again, but I take it out in stride and now they gave up on me. I am now a living example of "good without god..."

when this gets put in the DSM I'll be fucking elated

28:38 and they claim religion is moral? that is betrayal of the highest order! throw those losers into jail!!

Great topic Seth. I think it is important to understand that many people are very attached to the belief of a god existing a god who if you don't belief can send you to a place where your soul will burn for eternity.

Who is speaking? Is he a dr?

Oh wow, and I thought my experience was bad. Wow.

Thanks for all the trauma, JESUS Christ and all the people who used his name!

Be Proud to be an Apostate!!! Apostate, a word from the greek meaning "RUNAWAY SLAVE"--- think about it

@Yeiyn343

6 жыл бұрын

I'm an Apostate of the Catholic Church, the Christian Church, and Islam. So...that's Hell-bound x3. Became Atheist about 2 months ago. :-)

@jamesstaplesv1250

6 жыл бұрын

happy trails

Oh, I believe it. Happened to me from Babtist church around 16 yrs old. Ended up at a barn for a "sing-a-long”and preaching. I was a church member, but so ANGRY. Various of the adults involved spent all evening cajoling me to participate, not be angry, stop crying.

@lesliemarchant4751

5 жыл бұрын

I'm so sorry that happened to you, Bryn. I'm Leslie, the 80s kidnap victim. I laughed while I talked to Seth, but after the call, I remembered the terror.

I'd heard that it's not the 'caffeine' that Mormons are prohibited from consuming, it's Any "Hot Beverage/s", if I'm not mistaken-?

@rajanogray9088

6 жыл бұрын

Douglas Einer Yea, some Mormons drink colas. Colas have cafine. It has to be something else.

@DouglasEiner

6 жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure that it's "Hot Beverages" that are prohibited, coffee is usually served Hot, coffee has caffeine, and many were 'convinced' that it was the caffeine that was prohibited,......they were incorrect/misinformed.

@DouglasEiner

6 жыл бұрын

However, I still wonder if "Broth" is considered a "Hot Beverage" and would therefore be 'prohibited' to Mormons-?

I so long to find a gathering of people who would like to form a support group. Let me know if you are interested.

0mg! Thank you.

As an atheist, I would never dream of trying to convince a child of the none existence of god if they believed in him, so why would a Christian try and inflict their beliefs on someone else child let alone taking someone else's child to be baptized. How the church is even allowed to perform such a ceremony without the parent's permision also seems wrong to me.