I just encountered a similar situation. Client had a general reno contractor build a shower last August. It was leaking down to the first floor bathroom. Looked "okay" but not the finest tile work, some misalignment, grouted cracked corners (change of plane using grout not silicone tile caulk), and no pre-slope, no deck mud, no slope at all on the floor, just Durock + Redgard. The 12x12 floor was basically flat with uneven spots that pool water. Just crazy. I removed the floor and the first tiles at the bottom. And discovered the leaks were in many places. I excavated carefully (from watching your videos) and the client could see for himself the issues. Then I had to convince the client that it made no sense to try to repair it with a proper job matched up to the rest of the existing sloppy work. So I tore out the whole thing, a shower that was only like 4 months old! It is now a proper shower, and looks about 10x better in every way. And it has a pre-slope, a pan liner, a post-slope, and is built properly. I've learned a lot watching your videos! (And Sal's, and some of Bob's too.)

RedGard is a terrific product. The issue lies with tiny residual pinholes in the coating detectable only upon very close scrutiny. Careful inspection after each coat is very important to catch these infinitesimally minute spots not covered with surfactant. This case was more about abject carelessness: mastik in a shower, PVC glue on ABS, concrete in the pan covering weep holes. No KZreadr anywhere is teaching any that.

After making “patch” mistakes in the past, rebuild it all! Every time I’ve “taken it back to the studs”, I’m glad I did.

The owner was doomed to do a full remodel from the start. The 20 year old tile (color,style), the bad workmanship, and the age makes a small repair more of an eye sore. You can't match the old tile to make it look right. The owner probably knew it and you are helping him do the right thing.

Dude, I love your videos I’ve seen a lot of tile jobs that look great, but have underlying issues and Vice versa . Your work is on point and looks great! Thanks for sharing.

I'd definitely tear it all out. I can't stand a crappy job and if you're already in it, don't stop short.

You guys have me soooo geeked about my upcoming diy project.. definitely focusing on waterproofing and taking my time.. soo much knowledge from you guys!!

I would not be associated with that, replace it.

Issac you are a forensic tile investigator. Love it. Thanks for the post. See you on the next one. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

I’ve ran into a situation where they just wanted me to replace the pan, the walls looked fine for the most part anyway so I started to tear out the pan, the installer screwed the Schluter preform into the sub floor. So after that I start taking out a few rows of tile and realize the guy used durock for his wall board and didn’t coat it with any sort of water proofing membrane. Except the seams he used kerdi band on the seams lol I had to tell the homeowner the only way I would replace the pan is if they did a full tear out and replacement. I can’t put my work on someone else’s shitty work that didn’t even make the shower watertight

Another great, informative video! Thanks Isaac!

@TileCoach

11 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

That's a nice home with a very old fashioned looking bathroom

@beekeepermariadelgado6806

11 ай бұрын

Ugly one

From what I’ve been seeing on videos, it is time for a total re-think of the shower design and construction. As a home owner, I do not want to have blind faith that the work that I never saw will not fail and cost me $1000s in unwarranteed costs. I need a drop in system with double redundancy and easy access to shut off valves in the very likely event of a plumbing line leak/failure. We are paying too much attention to being pretty and not enough on being functional.

@lw3764

2 ай бұрын

💯

Great work! Excited to see the next video.

@TileCoach

11 ай бұрын

Thanks!

I wonder if people look back at their work like that and think, "oh that’s nice".........concerning. Great videos and great work issac

@gchekibed2099

11 ай бұрын

They do! Blows my mind.

It must be tough for a homeowner to see that much square footage that doesn’t seem to be leaking and hear the solution is to tear the whole thing back to studs. Maybe a cross section drawing could help him understand better. Great video.

Another great video Tilecoach, as someone who is in the middle of their first DIY tub to shower full bathroom remodel I personally returned everything I thought I originally though I needed months ago back to Home Depot (VersaBond, RedGard, Prism, etc.). I replaced it all with all Laticrete products (Multimax Lite, Hydroban, Spectralock 1, etc.) per your recommendation before I got too deep into the project. Even though I am not a pro I can see how using the right more expensive quality products, combined with proper use will save you in the long run. Thanks again Isaac, keep it up.

@Ed97336

10 ай бұрын

Wrong you can use any of the product you just mention if it’s install incorrectly you will have a problem.

You guys are like a surgery team. Another well done job .

@TileCoach

11 ай бұрын

vaccum...hammer...chisel...

@danbartstow9829

4 ай бұрын

Boot licking is not advisable!

Watching from u.k. U in America have bad workmen like us in uk. Your system is totally different from ours but I like your dedication to do a correct job & informative video.

Nice walk through. Tear it up😅

love your videos, i do a couple shower repairs a year, sometimes more, i don't under stand why someone would leave grout lines on the beach seat, big no no in my book. i always leave a 1" over hang in front and sides if exposed. i also only use solid curb cap, marble or engendered marble, and any flat areas where shower glass is going to set. i seal the curb cap a day or 2 ahead of install. some customers insist on matte finish on wall tiles, i do my best to talk them out of it, have to seal that as well. Isaac i would like to send you a couple picture of how i use flo-fx drain with a hotmop to get your thoughts

I would definitely recommend a replacement if I was doing it, with seeing how bad the bond is I'd be afraid after a few months of showering after the repair, that the walls tiles could let go, specially after a bunch of hot steam from the showers, so I would definitely recommend a remodel!!

@danbartstow9829

4 ай бұрын

Your credibility is awesome! Tile Master for sure! I BELIEVE in you!

Thank you for exposing this bullhocky…😊

Opening line- got another jacked up shower😂

Absolutely needs to be redone!

That window alone, I wouldn't be able to stand it, tear it out

I've done patch jobs in rental properties where only the bottom 18 inches needed to be replaced and they don't have the budgets for a re-do. Broke the tiles out. Dried everything behind the wall for a couple days. Durock. Seal the holes. Redguard. Mastic. New tiles w/ grout & sealer on the whole shower. Haven't had a callback for them ever.

I agree with you. He should replace the hole show and floor of the bathroom.

This is a total gut job ~ everything must go. If the homeowner does not want to do it right, I personally would pass on the job.

Start over. No question!

I would agree with you on that one unfortunately

With the resources available on you tube etc. It still blows my mind that homeowners think mastic and half-assed waterproofing will make a good shower... it's nuts!

I would tear the whole shower out and start over. Like you said just to repair it would be costly not to mention it would still look compromised in my eyes. I wouldn't like the idea of tieing into the previous installers work knowing that other parts of the shower are not 100% and having to warrant it. I think I would walk away from this one as far as a repair goes, I want to sleep at night. A full new shower is the only way to go. Thanks for another great video!

Great video as always. also, please use safety glasses! Especially when your face is 1 foot from a multitool.

Thanks for an interesting video. I would put a new drain in and try to seal into the existing hot mop with a tar product, then fill it up with water and if it holds up, just retile what was removed without removing any more tile. patch the showerpan with deck mud and a new layer of showerfloor tile on top of existing one. This might save this shower for a while assuming the old pan is good and the owner is not ready for a remodel. Otherwise replace the whole thing, I don't think cutting into the wall tile would make a-lot of sense.

I would definitely do a complete tear out and build new

Replace. Amazingly common to see. Sad for the homeowners. Just looked at one today. Walk in/ curb less sloped into bathroom. Shoddy work passed off. New owners have no choice but to pay up.

What i do in this case. Is i would chip of the pencil trims. Buff all the tile with a stone sander and then i paint it with that tile over tile paint. Then just tile over with a premium thinset. Works every time

Opinions on Tile Redi show pans? I'm going to be redoing my bathroom soon and I have been researching these for a few weeks. It seems like a reasonable option. If installed properly. The biggest issue I've seen is not using the right mortar to mount it to the floor causing it to be loose.

As a handyman, seeing all the bad joints, and not using thinset, I would run out of there as well.

new bathroom for sure.

I wouldn't do a patch on this. Love the video!

Hey Isaac! I love your videos. Do you have an online course that I can purchase? I’m brand new to tile work.

I wouldn't hire the prior owner to be my HVAC contractor if he thought that tile work was of acceptable quality.

@suspicionofdeceit

11 ай бұрын

Just imagine the duct work he does.

100% I would be at a full demo. Given the issues just in the pan, layout, mastic, hollow floor tiles. Full remodel. Repairs would have to continuously be done. End up paying more for repairs when you could just get a new bathroom.

Hey coach, have you ever float on AAC Light Block? If you have or you know how to do it, please teach me.. thanks for all of your video coz im inspired by you.. 😀

Just red guard the hole thing and retile job done!!!😂😂😂

10 yr tile guy here just 3 years deep diving online… what’s crazy is these guys are very handy or whatever but with the complexity of these systems you really find urself having to google and KZread (thank you very much Isaac) for the exact parts the exact types like… there’s no easy way to figure this stuff out besides being trained 20 years ago… and even if you took a guy from 30 years ago Time Machine he wouldn’t know how to use a phone like you can’t just go in Home Depot and figure it out. This is why I know I justify charging triple what I just was last year

@TileCoach

11 ай бұрын

Good for you. Stay profitable!

Remodel OR Repair depends on what the HOME OWNER wants. Not the contractors decision. might be a quick sale, might be a keeper home, the repair choice is upto the home owner.

Gut it, it needs a fresh look done right.

Can you do a video on how to do a Dry-pack Shower pan with an offset drain? I have a shower that is about 7' long with a drain about 2' from the side and 5 to the other. If I keep it level all around the short side could be a slip hazard.

Issac do you use the RedGorilla tubs to mix mortar or just carrying demo work?

Fix it right, that’s my motto. To not rip it all out, is like putting a dress on a pig lol. Demo it out to the studs and do it right. Looking at the hack work every day would be painful! So, biting the bullet and redoing the whole thing will bring greater joy and resale value down the road!

I’m a mechanic not a plumber. Looking for pan advice. What would you put in your house? Menards is my local building supply. Shower will be upstairs and not on an exterior wall. I know pex is easy but after replacing all the water lines in the house with 0 leaks I’m confident I can build a shower and eliminate the hated tub that’s 5 inches off the floor. Product choices is great in theory but when none of it is sold local it does me no good. So any help would be greatly appreciated especially if I could get info on specific menards products. Or if menards stuff all sucks and isn’t worth my time then that would also be awesome! I run my own little shop so days are long and weekends are just another day to work for me. Thanks for your time.

Such a broad question, I would guess 9-12k. There are so many variables though......

Complete demo and replace once you repair it , you own it

It's easy to say replace I'm sure the home owners would love to replace it. It comes down to affordability. If the home owner needs a shower and can only afford a repair they need someone willing to do a repair that is not cosmetically pleasing but won't cause further damage

@beekeepermariadelgado6806

11 ай бұрын

I would then tell the guy he would have to go to Home Depot and pick up a worker who uses Redguard.

Replace it. No question. Also, it looks quite dated, so updating it would be a good investment.

Just like you said. A house worth that much, I would completely demo the entire bathroom and start from scratch

Cant polish this one up. It looks bad and is installed poorly. Rip it out and and start over. Will save the client money in the long run. Your likely to find many more bad problems with the install. Great video, thanks mate

If it was me I would say it all needs to come out and that is the only way I will do it. Can't see making it look good and having a good return of investment by patching it

That was a "make it look pretty'ish for as cheap as possible, it's not going to be inspected anyways, as-is, no eff's given" job right there. Just saw one similar last week while looking at a rental we were going to buy. Tile in the shower was highly suspect. Lippage, uneven grout lines, drain was crooked. Of course they said "bathroom was just remodeled!" By who? The Three Stooges? I didn't even need to hire an inspector to tell that was a home depot job. Which made me suspect the rest of the "recently renovated" parts of the house. Had to walk away from that one unless they came down $100k to gut and redo the bathrooms.

I would delete that whole shower. Those white tiles are hideous. But most people it comes down to money and what they can afford. I would try and take it down from under the ugly white tile to the floor like you said. Im doing a big shower bathroom renovation. Sometimes I think about calling.

The funny part is I bet in the beginning the plumber was blamed. Especially when there was blue glue on ABS.

Isaac: You say that if Redgard is used properly…but it’s still not a great product. If it is installed properly, what can I expect? I remodeled two bathrooms in my home in 2021 - built a mudbed walk-in shower, fully tiled over Redgard, and a new bathtub with Redgard and tiles on the walls. Should I expect them to fail?!

Mastic in a wet area is a no no. I'd be redoing the whole shower, especially if I was expected to warranty the repair. Homeowner isn't going to like the price, but will be satisfied with the end result. On a side note, I prefer liquid membranes from Laticrete. Have never been a fan of Redguard.

@fyt54321

11 ай бұрын

Agreed. But Redgard works fine if that's what you have. Apply it properly, let it fully cure. And only use it on walls that have been mesh-taped and mortared, never on floors lol. This was a frankenstein job.

I know you are a fan of the foam pans and curbs. I'm not. They sound hollow to me. I prefer cmu block for my curb and deck mud for my shower floor.

@TileCoach

11 ай бұрын

Solid!

what would be proper way to patch that up instead of using concrete and red guard?? are we forced to redo the whole pan?? plmk thanks!!!

You gotta re do all of it or at least the shower part. Once you touch it and try and patch it over, whatever happens is on you.

That shower needs a complete reno. It needs to be properly installed/waterproofed. That’s the only way I would want to be associated with it.

How much is the repair cost and the replacement cost on this project?

Any update on this?

Curious as to why they still do the hot mop in So Cal but not Nor Cal..Anyone know?

No ! If I was the owner start saving after getting an approximate price and call u back in a yr or even two ! I am a finish contractor and I fix my finish or fence ! I do not replace my own shower! I did patch my roof sheeting however, I did it after my Dad ( who was a general home builder and built the house I am in) coached me how to do it ! Stay in your lane!

How much to patch vs rebuild shower?

I just took over a job where the "Handyman" used Red Guard and Chloraloy over the old hot mop. Then he stuffed a plastic drain top, unsecured, into the existing cast iron drain bottom. I have pics and video if you would like me to send them to you

@TileCoach

11 ай бұрын

Yes please! Info@tilecoach.com

I’d just remodel the whole thing. tile is the #1 thing I look at in houses. like when I had mine built I wanted to check it out before grouting was done every place in my house and after they said it grout was finished.

Isaac…Could you do a short video on shower life expectancy? The reason I ask is I’m here local in your same area.I’ve remodeled all three of my showers which were done in the 80s hot mop and floated with chicken wire..While my pan material was kinda wet and I did find some standing water in the hot mop area once I pulled the tar out all three showers were bone dry underneath..They we’re all over 30 years old when I ripped them out..They’ve all been replaced using denshield/Kerdi .What kind of lifespans are you expecting to see out of these new systems?

@RoninCC

11 ай бұрын

Look at foam, then look at concrete, then open a history book and see how long either lasts. A decade ago my teachers would scream and shout that we needed to recycle because "plastics dont break down until after 1,000 years!" (foams are also petroleum products btw), yet now we are facing the reality of microplastics being in everything from drinking water to food. There is tried and true, and then there is marketing.

@brianhopkins5251

11 ай бұрын

he did a video a while back where they took out an old shower (and replaced it) with a lead shower pan that he said probably dated from the 1950's and wasn't leaking, just was outdated.

@beekeepermariadelgado6806

11 ай бұрын

@@RoninCC cast iron shower pan.

Homeowner wasn't cheap during covid times, now they want to be cheap fixing the bathroom 😂

Tear it out!

The existence of redgard is a bane to the tile industry. It’s the worst of the waterproofing membranes

If I had a dollar for every time someone told me to just redguard it 😂

Wow. Three stooges install!

The presence of ants under bench tiles indicates a compromised water barrier somewhere.

replace it

replace all

If I looked at that job, I would say remodel or find someone else. I wouldn't want to touch any of that

Just from meeting customers, You will have no option but to do a repair and redo the shower Pan. Even if you cannot find matching tile. I'm a plumber. And I know you are caught in the middle. It comes down to them spending the money for a Complete new bathroom. Or remove the tile as high as you need to go to redo the shower Pan properly to keep it from leaking and causing further damage, Have a good contract written up with exactly what was done abd the decision that was made by the home owner. You have to be able to warranty your work. And sleep at night. Those hollow floor tiles must come up to. And the curb definitely needs repaired. You just see water pouring on to the floor. I ran into this a bunch.

rip it out!!

He might have been an excellent HVAC guy but not a good tiler. Funny to see ABS, that's a Canadian thing. We only use PCV four feet from the house for sewage.

Isaac does shower pan archeology. I would love to comprehend how someone goes to the effort to do a project outside of their contracting discipline, does their own "research" to ostensibly do a proper job, and then goes ahead and invents some totally bizarre half-baked installation method that they could not have possibly seen recommended anywhere. And does a very sloppy job. Just nuts.

@spikeklein2196

11 ай бұрын

Totally. Some people get creative when they should stick to proper methods.

Replace!!

Replace it!

What whould be the price difference between repair and remodel?

@tedecker3792

3 ай бұрын

“Repair” covers a wide spectrum, anything from a quick hack job that’s destined to fail, to a good functional re-do that will always look like a patch job and probably cost more than a full remodel. Good work is expensive, but worth it. I usually find deeper problems when I do a complete demo. Problems that will keep festering and eventually fail, negating all repair work.

The homeowner probably didn't want to pay for the demo to do it properly..

As the homeowner, I'd have to see the numbers. If close, then whole new shower. As the contractor, no patch. Patching a patch never looks good and if conscientious, takes a lot of work. And I probably still wouldn't be happy with it in the end.

It needs to be redone.

@fyt54321

11 ай бұрын

Yup, it's not a selling point feature at all. It's not only poor craftsmanship it's a very dated design, not modern nor attractive.

What is the average shower remodel cost in Sacramento area? 5'×3' and 8' ceiling. Approximately

@mx500a4

11 ай бұрын

I'm guessing 8k

@jh5131

11 ай бұрын

@@mx500a4 I figured 12-14k

@kirkdunn1379

11 ай бұрын

You can't have a 3' wide bath

@sunfish8286

11 ай бұрын

@kirkdunn1379 5 feet backwall and 3 ft on each adjacent wall. And yes, you can have any size of the wall as long as you have enough space and follow the codes.

@kirkdunn1379

11 ай бұрын

@@sunfish8286 how do you fit a tub on 3ft wall?...15sq ft bath never seen in my life

replace

I was cringing to see hammer, chisel, vacuum and no eye protection. But, on the subject at hand I would do a complete re-do. I think the homeowner would regret eventually to live with a shower with half of it done with obvious bad workmanship and half done by a professional. And everyday living in that house they will see the difference. Nothing like having peace of mind. Expensive but worth it. A bad looking shower might potentially reduce the value of the house.

@beekeepermariadelgado6806

11 ай бұрын

I hate seating in showers too, ball and butts