Thats like CNN asking if it should continue to talk about Trump. They are addicted to that content

Dr White: i came into reformed theology by watching the 2 American Gospel movies. I've listened to both yourself and Flowers explain a lot of Biblical texts. I am convinced that the reformed interpretation is the correct one. So thank you so much for your detailed and careful exegit of the text. It has helped me so much. As a result, I no longer listen to Flowers. I cannot take credit for this. The Lord in his divine plan has brought me to a clear understanding of the text.

@evanu6579

2 жыл бұрын

What do you make of this passage?.... Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few. These believed because they were more noble. How does that work with total inability and unconditional election? Thanks and God bless.

@dylanmilks

2 жыл бұрын

@@evanu6579 i believe the words honorable and nobel are used from a human perspective. As in: they were of honorable and nobel stature within their community

@evanu6579

2 жыл бұрын

@@dylanmilks Wouldn’t you agree that the context says they were more noble in that they searched the scriptures? Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, 👉🏻in that 👈🏻they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

@evanu6579

2 жыл бұрын

Could have these believed had they not been hardened?..... John 12:39 ¶ Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

@SDRBass

2 жыл бұрын

@@evanu6579 dude this is easy. The Bereans were being juxtaposed to the other Jews who were rejecting the Gospel out of hand and causing riots and other trouble. The Jews in Berea were more noble in that they heard Paul out and examined his claims with the Scriptures. That verse doesn’t support Calvinism or Provisionism. Try again.

“Former Calvinist professor” 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣🤣😂🤣😂🤣🤣😂🤣🤣🤣😂🤣🤣🤣😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂🤣🤣😂🤣🤣🤣😂🤣😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣😂🤣🤣😂🤣🤣😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂🤣😂🤣🤣🤣🤣 Nah son…

True story. A couple years ago I had started to question Calvinism and through my research I discovered Leighton Flowers. His teachings assisted me in "de-converting" out of Calvinism. However, that de-conversion was very short lived, because shortly afterwards I discovered your teachings and your teachings immensely assisted me in de-converting back from my de-conversion..so-to-speak,right back into Calvinism. Thank you Dr. James White for all that you do.

@A1vin505

2 жыл бұрын

Praise God for His word.

@kreefoster

2 жыл бұрын

Moral of the Story....God decreed you into Calvinism, then he decreed you out of Calvinism, then God decreed you back in.

@evanu6579

2 жыл бұрын

@@A1vin505 Gods word contradicts Calvinism. Would you like to see for yourself?

@matthayes533

2 жыл бұрын

I wonder why God pre determined you to know the truth, then reject it, then find it again...

@andrewtaylor1737

2 жыл бұрын

@@matthayes533 for the glorification of His sovereignty.

I once met a professing Christian in the live chat of an apologia sermon James White was giving. We connected through zoom and had extensive talks about Church of Christ theology because I have a friend in that movement. In the few weeks we spoke I viewed him as a sort of spiritual older brother, he was very nice to me and took his time instructing me in the faith as he had a lot more theological and biblical knowledge than me at the time. Back then, I was unsure of my belief on Calvinism (being raised an Arminian) although I had found the likes of Dr. White and Jeff Durbin edifying me in the Word regularly and it was really making me reconsider my Arminianism. I told him that I was sort of on the fence about Calvinism but that I was seriously considering it. He would mock Calvinism, making a fool of anyone that would believe it and he mocked Calvinists, namely Dr. White and claimed that he was a liar and that he had taken Flowers out of context or something. He would accuse Calvinists of believing that if a professing Christian sins then he's a false convert etc. He claimed to be an ex-Calvinist and sent me multiple Leighton Flowers videos. When I would make a point responding to flowers that he didn't like he would get very nasty with me which really rubbed me the wrong way. I once innocently inquired whether the Holy Spirit regenerates before or after faith and he insisted adamantly that the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit regenerates the believer after faith. When I asked if he could show me the passage he got very angry and flipped out on me and told me to "just read the Bible". He then belittled & demeaned me for not having read the entire Bible, assured me that he had so he knew what it taught and told me to come back to him when I had read the entire Bible. Needless to say I never spoke with him again. Fast forward about a year and I discovered the likes of John Macarthur, R.C. Sproul, Steve Lawson and many others, and I continue to listen to Dr. White regularly; I am now a fully convinced 5-point Calvinist by the power and testament of the Holy Scriptures. I now know that how he treated me was very wrong and unchristian. In the final analysis he turned out to be a bully to anyone that didn't agree with him. I honestly believe he is the average Leighton Flowers listener. Fun fact: He has a KZread channel called "Revivalists for Christ" with a modest but substantive following where he attacks Calvinists and calls them "Yacht Club Christians", going as far as to mock Paul Washer's heart attack. Very nasty guy!

@evanu6579

2 жыл бұрын

Strange he couldn’t give you scripture of faith preceding regeneration because there’s quite a bit of it. Would that aspect bring into question your stance on Calvinism?

@anduinsuchan356

2 жыл бұрын

Great news, God bless brother. Your story highlights one of my pet peeves, that the Calvinists are generally the only ones accused of cage-staging.

@tjs.5044

2 жыл бұрын

@@evanu6579 I believe that's strange as well because I know there are passages that can be misinterpreted to that end but he didn't give me anything

@evanu6579

2 жыл бұрын

@@tjs.5044 Maybe you could help me out with some of these passages then..... John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. John said that we believe to have life. What say you? (I’ll only post one at a time)

@evanu6579

2 жыл бұрын

@@tjs.5044 Are you not willing to help out or not able?

Flowers actually help me get into reformed theology, because I saw how horrendous his exegesis was, and was like he really does not want to submit to the clearer reading of scripture it must have make a god after his own appetite

@billyr9162

2 жыл бұрын

That's right. If God does not create vessels of wrath fitted for destruction you wouldn't know what a vessel of mercy was.

@flippintobyland7257

2 жыл бұрын

Me as well I use to watch all his stuff and be a fan , but slowly I came across the isle.

@pinknoise365

2 жыл бұрын

Dude same!!

@pinknoise365

2 жыл бұрын

@@flippintobyland7257 What was the most effective argument?

@flippintobyland7257

2 жыл бұрын

@@pinknoise365 well many things , first I grew up in a typical sbc sinners prayer church , and I had a lot of questions I was wrestling through about true and false conversion and many other things , but overall reformed theology puts salvation in full color , terms of regeneration, born again , the necessity of the holt spirit in conversion, exegesis of scripture 1st John . To just pile on more , the unity of the trinity , the “”issue of the humans who have never heard of the gospel “” clearly explained . Going back through the parables of the wheat & Tares , Goats and sheep . The difference in one who is justified and not isn’t mans decision but the Gods grace solely. Also I’ll be Honest channel helped a lot . This is just some where i was like , yah know reformed theology answers a lot of the issues and questions I had growing up and still had .. there is a ton more but this is off the top of my head .

Flower thinks he's fighting the good fight against error. But he himself is in error. Flowers is blinded by tradition.

@theschrocks2405

2 жыл бұрын

So true! Leighton, wake up and be blessed!!

@jessetoler1032

2 жыл бұрын

Flowers does a pretty good job of refuting Calvinism, so it's a mighty solid tradition!

@philipmurray9796

2 жыл бұрын

@@jessetoler1032 choice meats, lol

@billyr9162

2 жыл бұрын

@@SilenceDogwood. Free will, corporate election, Determinism, Augustine and gnosticism. At least those.

@jessetoler1032

2 жыл бұрын

@@philipmurray9796 Choice fruits, lol (Song 4:16)

Lol Leighton Flowers is comedy gold.

@AtomicApolo

2 жыл бұрын

FRESH MEATS!

Thanks James white, I really appreciate all you do.

I agree with Dr. James White. 👍

@Anna-eg3ub

2 жыл бұрын

... which is being in agreement with the Word of God. Thank you Dr White!!! May the Lord continue to bless you and your ministry. 🙏

@eiontactics9056

2 жыл бұрын

You are lost.

Ironically, I’m a former neo-provisionist. (Because I affirmed original sin) and I came to reformed theology after wrestling with the text of scripture in a plain and honest way.

Does anyone know if Arby's still has the meat?

@jalapeno.tabasco

3 ай бұрын

they have the choice meats

Boring is the word that comes to mind when Flowers spouts his mantra time and time again.

@Irideonandon

2 жыл бұрын

Do you read the Bible? Do you compare what Dr. Flowers says to scripture? Do you accept what your Pastor says without checking in the Bible for yourself? It sounds like I am attacking you but I'm not. I am curious.

@stehir9260

2 жыл бұрын

@@IrideonandonActually I have read the Old Testament over 10 times and the New Testament Over 30 times. I lost count years ago. I put a bookmark in the Old Testament and another in the New. I have read 100's of books ranging from Billy Graham, Chuck Colson to John Macarthur and J. Gresham Machen. I was raised in a somewhat liberal Baptist Church and was introduced to Reformed Thinking via D.James Kennedy's Evangelism Explosion. Previous to that I memoried many scripture verses via Navigator Programs back in the early 1970's. i have listened to literally 100's of John Macarthur Sermons over the past year. I'm retired so I have time. How about YOU? I find very few people have even read their Bible through more than once.

@evanu6579

2 жыл бұрын

@@stehir9260 I’ve read the entire Bible at least 15 times and I don’t know how many times random books of the bible on top of that. I don’t know how you could believe in Calvinism if you’re familiar with the OT and if you know what Paul is quoting from.

@stehir9260

2 жыл бұрын

@@evanu6579 That is actually why I have come to understand the Doctrines of Grace as sound. If I believe that God is Sovereign then the rest follows. AW Pink's book The Sovereignty of God is a classic on this essential. Systematic Theology is what draws me to understand Justification as being totally of God. Dead people don't decide anything. The Elect are drawn by the Holy Spirit.

@evanu6579

2 жыл бұрын

@@stehir9260 Dead people don’t get out of bed either. It’s a matter of what that means. I believe that it speaks of our fruitfulness which is directly connected to our relationship with God. If we’re walking in the light then we bear fruit like a living branch. If we’re hiding in darkness because of our sin (ashamed to be in the light) then we bear thorns and thistles. We’re a dead branch. That’s not to say that we can’t receive an offer to be made right with God so that we can be back in the light with Him. Let me ask you about the generation who entered the promise land. How were they able to serve God and be faithful to Him if they didn’t have circumcised hearts and weren’t given eyes to perceive?

Does Flowers even believe Calvinists are even saved? If he thinks he's converting folks out of Calvinism, wouldn't that person still be a Christian, whether Provisionist or Calvinist?

@boringbiblestudy1813

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, he absolutely believes Calvinists are saved. He’s made that completely clear. If you want to know what Leighton thinks, check out his videos. The best way to understand people’s perspectives is to see for yourself.

@oracleoftroy

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah. He says that he thinks they are saved, but in his interview with Mike Winger he said he sees Calvinism as a bigger problem for the church than open theism. I (and I think most Christians) regard open theism as rank heresy and outside of Christianity, so I find it hard to reconcile his stance against Calvinism with his claim that they are still inside of orthodox Christianity. I suspect he is giving a political answer so that he fits in with the circles he runs in.

@boringbiblestudy1813

2 жыл бұрын

​@@oracleoftroy As a Provisionist, I find both Calvinism and Open Theism pretty troubling since they both distort (from my understanding) the nature of God. Open Theism distorts God's omniscience whereas Calvinism distorts God's justice and love. The distortion of omniscience is obvious, but I'm sure the claim of distortion of justice and love will be objectionable. As I understand it, justice is giving people what they deserve. If someone breaks God's laws, they deserve condemnation. However under Calvinism, God is the one who breaks God's laws and people are merely his instruments, so in that view, God creates the evil and then condemns man for doing as he made them do. This is much like throwing a baby into a cup of milk to knock it over and then throwing the baby into a fire as punishment, or mind controlling a baby to want to knock over milk and throwing it into the fire as punishment if you want to be even more precise. No sane person would call that just. We can always say, "God is God, and we can make up any rules for himself," and that's true, but it also means that if God is the standard of justice, I no longer know what justice means. I can say God is just, but apparently it's just to cause evil and torture others because of your evil, and that's kind of weird. Similarly, Calvinism distorts God's love. It's true that we are not owed God's grace by definition, but it's also true that God is gracious and loving, so though we are not owed it, he still gives it, and yet the God of Calvinism hates most people, so apparently love under the Calvinist God means only loving those mysteriously chosen to be worthy of love and torturing everyone else. Again, what am I then to understand about the nature of love? It's now a confused mess. So I suppose for Leighton, it is less concerning to believe God doesn't know everything (which many open theists will say is a self-imposed limit much akin to how Jesus didn't know when his return would be) then to create a God with an unrecognizable sense of justice and love.

@oracleoftroy

2 жыл бұрын

@@boringbiblestudy1813 _"...but I'm sure the claim of distortion of justice and love will be objectionable."_ Yup! :) _"As I understand it, justice is giving people what they deserve. If someone breaks God's laws, they deserve condemnation."_ So, as that is what all the Reformed Confessions claim, what is the objection? Moreover, in my experience, many non-Calvinists explicitly deny this. They say that Christ actually paid for the sins of every single person in the world, and so the only reason anyone goes to hell is because they didn't believe in Jesus. This strikes me as having vile implications. The idea that Christ's atonement actually propitiates every single person's sin and thus making them legally innocent before God implies that God is sending legally innocent people to hell merely for not recognizing what his son did for them. They end up having to deny the atonement by making it a potential atonement, which creates a huge mess of a lot of passages and contradicts their own narrative about our sins being paid for at the cross. _"However under Calvinism, God is the one who breaks God's laws and people are merely his instruments,.."_ And where does any Calvinist teach this? As Westminster Confession 5.4 puts it "...the sinfulness thereof proceedeth only from the creature, *and not from God,* who, being most holy and righteous, neither is, nor can be, the author or approver of sin." Sadly, there are a lot of people who hate Calvinism so much that they willfully lie about what we confess. I suspect you have been taken in by them and haven't verified for yourself whether they are telling the truth. I highly recommend reading our confessions for a brief but comprehensive overview of what we actually affirm. I like the Westminster Confession a lot, so I suggest starting there. The Canons of Dort might be good as that is what TULIP is supposed to point us towards. _"We can always say, "God is God, and we can make up any rules for himself," and that's true,.."_ Sure, but that's also not the Calvinist position. We tend to see his goodness as emanating from his very nature and character such that it would be impossible for him to tell a lie or sin or be capricious. That's why he is the standard of justice. I agree with you that if this were not the case, justice would lose all meaning. _"Similarly, Calvinism distorts God's love."_ How? _"It's true that we are not owed God's grace by definition, but it's also true that God is gracious and loving, so though we are not owed it, he still gives it,.."_ This is true on Calvinism. _"...and yet the God of Calvinism hates most people, so apparently love under the Calvinist God means only loving those mysteriously chosen to be worthy of love and torturing everyone else."_ This is in regards to salvific love. I wouldn't say he 'hates' most people as I think in the end, more people will have been saved than not. And don't non-Calvinists have the same problem? They say he loves everyone salvificly, yet when you look at who he saves, he doesn't actually save everyone. That tells me they were lying when they said God loves everyone salvificly or God is really bad at saving people. If I boast about how I love my children salvificly, yet when it comes to them playing in the middle of the street I don't run out there and pull them back to safety under some pretense of not wanting to violate their free will, do I really love them?

@boringbiblestudy1813

2 жыл бұрын

@@oracleoftroy Hey Oracle, I know how frustrating it is to spend a lot of time writing a response and getting no response back, and I greatly appreciate the feedback you gave. I have many thoughts on them, but I don't have the time right now to write you the response you deserve. I just wanted to let you know I have read what you said, I am considering it, and I appreciate the way in which you said it. I know that's what I want when I leave comments for other people. Perhaps I will find some extra time to keep this conversation going, but if not, I appreciate you kindly sharing your understanding of scriptures with me.

I was a former Provisionist as a false convert.

His followers should urge the professor to address open theism.

I love how Dr. White addresses the topics he does. 👍👍👍

Leighton Flowers is a crank lol

The streaming is a little rough, but better than editing video I guess . .

I’m troubled by the fact that any Arminian Christians who are so called theologians deal with so many passages that rocked me . Because it was clear to me that Calvinism had a strong point.

James lives in Flowers head rent free

@ACTSVERSE

2 жыл бұрын

Who just gave a response video? Hmmmmmmm. Oh yeah, White.

@BrendonKing

Жыл бұрын

@@ACTSVERSE dude all Flours does is rebuttal videos to White

@ACTSVERSE

Жыл бұрын

@@BrendonKing Wow, is this ever the worst informed comment.

God decreed him to refute you.. who are you to go against what God has decreed?

@matthayes533

2 жыл бұрын

He is nobody. God decreed James white to go against Fowler's pre determined refutations. According to Calvinism anyways...

To be defined by your opposition is to be nothing at all. Leighton needs to learn this.

@ACTSVERSE

2 жыл бұрын

But it was decreed by God, right?

@danielomitted1867

2 жыл бұрын

@@ACTSVERSE no one has knowledge of Gods decree. So saying well im only doing this because decreed it is just dumb. Youre doing what you want to do and acting in accordance with your nature. Gods decree does not violate our liberty but rather establishes it.

@zzzubrrr

2 жыл бұрын

@@danielomitted1867 So, God did not decree what i will want to do and what my nature will be?

The non-Calvinists have probably driven more folks to Calvinism than they would care to acknowledge...

@jltc5478

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, that was my case about 25 years ago. When I read them I hated Calvinism. When I read the Reformed Theology, I understood it clearly from Scripture. It showed me the anti-calvinist were constantly lying and twisting everything. It was evident to me that they painted a calvinism that the most extreme Calvinist or Calvin himself would find abhorrent. But, that's their tactic to deceive many.

@tntwebel

2 жыл бұрын

And vice versa.

@metnasopar8861

2 жыл бұрын

Not true.. i left calvinism because i found the truth of provisionism:)

@thenoob9379

2 жыл бұрын

Cant blame the non Calvinist, they were made to be non Calvinists

@metnasopar8861

2 жыл бұрын

@@jltc5478 why blame us for not believing?. Isnt it the DECREE of God not for us to believe YOUR doctrine of grace which is actually a doctrine of damnation?

Why does Dr. White always fall back to personal attacks against Dr. Flowers?

@billyr9162

2 жыл бұрын

Cause hes a person.

But he's a Doctor....:). Its like he has made it his life mission to destroy Calvinism and predestination.....which will make his life pretty worthless once he finds out that he is wrong....sad

Someone explain to me if this is true or not, it seems like to me that flowers position is post enlightenment English baptist theology.. am I wrong on this would love input…

@oracleoftroy

2 жыл бұрын

To be honest, I'm not sure what those words together imply beyond a chronological statement and certain general errors. I think there could be merit there, but it would have to be developed further. In my own view, Leighton is part of the oscillating nature of liberal theology. Every dozen years or so a new theology rises up, tickles the ears of the populous, and then falls by the wayside as a new branch takes over. When I was younger, the seeker sensitive movement was in full swing, and as people were seeing it's flaws, the emergent church rose up decry the errors of the old ways, yet still only offering the same old godless solutions. Brian McLaren noted surprise that he couldn't get Calvinists on board with his movement, which he saw as a reformation, as he never understood that the thing Calvinists want to reform towards is Biblical Christianity. I think due to the wishy-washy no truth only feelings attitude of the emergent church, many turned to Calvinism, attracted by their firm stance on Biblical truths and their willingness to preach the whole of scripture. This "New" Calvinism caused panic in the SBC, which started various conferences and groups designed to combat Calvinism. They sought to present a "traditionalist" SBC position, where the tradition they advocated for was just the same old modernist liberal theology that had infected the SBC (and the church at large) for decades. Leighton rose up in the SBC traditionalism movement and due to the sheer amount of content he produced, became a figurehead of the movement in a lot of ways, and eventually rebranded it as "provisionism". I agree that modernist post-enlightenment thinking is at the root. Fortunately, such a foundation is not stable and it will go away in ten to fifteen years only to be replaced with some new version that looks different on the outside but rooted in the same errors. It seems to me a lot of former "Calvinists" (perhaps Leighton included) who have since joined with the provisionists were really just part of the counter culture new calvinists and never really had any root in the historic confessions or the theology behind it.

@anduinsuchan356

2 жыл бұрын

I just see him as standard American evangelicalism (though he's basically a Southern Baptist) with its commitment to man-centered salvation, with a brand new, fairly eccentric skeleton of a system thrown over the top of it called Provisionism (fka Traditionalism). He actually does make positive assertions, but it's all born out of negatively denying reformed (biblical) Soteriology. I would love to see him attempt a consistent systematic theology with Provisionism at its core; the whole thing would fall apart like a house of cards.

I think "professor" can also mean "one who professes ----"

Leighton does a great service by pointing out the error in Calvinist doctrine. I appreciate his point of view. There definitely needs to be a counter to the unscriptural doctrine of Calvinism. It makes sense that he'd use Dr White, a very vocal KZread calvinist.

If he ignored James White…. what would he do?!!

@franciscusgomarus5086

2 жыл бұрын

He would have no ministry

@the_maskedtoaster844

2 жыл бұрын

There are other calvinist out there to debate..... JW is not the center of the calvinist universe though some of his fan boys think. I say the same thing about LF being the center of non calvinism

@franciscusgomarus5086

2 жыл бұрын

@@the_maskedtoaster844 I personally would like to see more debates between Calvinists and Non-Calvinists.

@chrisbrower9532

2 жыл бұрын

@@the_maskedtoaster844 true; I think the main point comes later, when White points out that his goal seems to be to convert people out of Calvinism (not mine, but not a heretical stance either ), rather than the truly lost. You can’t “evangelize” a Calvinist, anymore than you can “evangelize” an Arminian. It’s weird.

I’m in Thermopolis Wyo on business and noticed a Taco John’s in town-what did I think of but you, Dr. White 😎

I think Leighton has a mancrush on James White.

I Know this is really hard to understand, James, but it's a topical channel. It not being about Mormonism or Islam can't possibly be a meaningful criticism. And unlike your channels, his isn't his full time job, it's extra and focused. This seems to never compute. Why is that? His evangelism job doesn't deal with Calvinism. Your assertion to the contrary is lazy, opportunistic slander.

@ManassehJones

2 жыл бұрын

Leighton attacks White, constantly. White defends His doctrine. Leighton is not open for reproof, correction, or instruction in God's righteousness, as clearly evident from his banning those who disagree with his Pelaganistic doctrine on his channel. The elect knows Leigjton can't see, though we desire he could. Leightons channel actually helps build the Kingdom of God for the elect, in so much as the animosity he projects towards the doctrine of grace is the complete opposite, and totally man centered.

@ravissary79

2 жыл бұрын

@@ManassehJones You have have that backwards. Leighton addresses White 90% of of time when White attacks Leighton first. I can think of only 1 or 2 instances in the last 2 years where Leighton initiated a response that wasn't about something White directed at Leighton first. Sometimes White does programs or segments based on a tweet Leighton made, or he'll bring up provisionism and then Segway into Leighton. White uses quotes from Leighton in his intro. Makea catch phrases based on a misuse of a comment (choice meats) which he then mocks insufferably. The man is obsessed. Yet even after all this time, White seems unable to articulate provisionism accurately.

@ManassehJones

2 жыл бұрын

@@ravissary79 There should be many more channels calling out false teachers. The Apostle Paul himself delivered several over to Satan for blasphemy against the True Gospel. The love of self, including non saving faith of souls trusting in "their" own knowledge of Jesus Christ, is indeed the sign of these last days. The Lord, Lord, group, whose works are all of self, whose lamps posess no oil, need the Truth that Leighton suppresses. I fear God for Leighton, but, he is fulfilling God's will as God sees fit. Everyone gets the teacher their heart desires, right.

@ravissary79

2 жыл бұрын

@@ManassehJones You made a specific claim: that Leighton initiates most of these. I responded to the contrary, saying to my knowledge, no more than 2 response videos in 2 years are uninitiated by White addressing Flowers first. I challenge you to find more than 2 videos on leighton's page in the last 2 years, where Leighton isn't defending himself from White's attacks. Videos that are short cuts of larger videos don't count, as they're topical and stripped on the context one needs to prove or disprove the point you and I are disagreeing about. Let the facts stand for themselves. I am open to correction if you can show me you are right and I am wrong.

@ManassehJones

2 жыл бұрын

@@ravissary79 1 Corinthians 14:35 KJVS And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 1 Timothy 5:19 KJVS Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses. As a woman you are under the man, as honorable women are called to be. If Leighton is your man, why are you commiting adultery and listening to White in the 1st place? This battle of doctrine isn't your battle, it's between men.

It’s rare that a mature reformed Christian is ever swayed by what Flowers says. It always seems to be the new believer, those finding their feet, that are convinced by Flowers. I think that says all we ought to know about the foundations of Flowers’ theology

@oracleoftroy

2 жыл бұрын

That's why it is so important to be rooted in the Word. I hear Leighton make some claim and half a dozen verses pop into my head refuting it, yet so many taken in by him haven't read the entire Bible and are forming their beliefs based on what they would like to be true rather than what God actually says about himself. Then they become hardened in that belief so that when they do come to those passages, they skim over it with a "It can't mean that!"

@ACTSVERSE

2 жыл бұрын

Swayed? That's free will. Better brush up on your determinism.

I have a problem, because I do not find Flowers' platform sad, I find it contemptible. I seethe over his position, and the worship of his content in his comments section. I wish I could pity Flowers and pray for him, but my anger towards his platform is too great. It bothers me, my lack of forgiveness bothers me, and my inability to pray for him bothers me.

@Pnice971

6 ай бұрын

Paulaten- don’t be mad at yourself for having righteous indignation toward a false teaching heretic like Flowers. He actually hates the true God! He teaches a false gospel - antother Jesus and is anathema! James needs to stop calling those heretic his brother. By doing so he is confusing the elect

I hope we keep in mind that we are all Christians and should fellowship with one another accordingly as we discuss these matters. I find myself always having to fallibly check myself :)

@peterw1642

2 жыл бұрын

@@SaltyWatermelon436 Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. There is nothing in there about having correct understanding of soteriology.

@heisaltogetherlovely7235

2 жыл бұрын

@@peterw1642 You do understand the point of Galatians is soteriology mate? You can't separate union with Christ through faith and the fruit from that union.

@peterw1642

2 жыл бұрын

@@heisaltogetherlovely7235 I don't understand. Those that are saved exhibit the fruits of the Spirit.

@heisaltogetherlovely7235

2 жыл бұрын

@@peterw1642 If you believe in Christ then you will exhibit the fruits of the spirit true. Yet we are not to fellowship with heretics as Paul says so we shouldn't fellowship with Leighton.

@peterw1642

2 жыл бұрын

@@SaltyWatermelon436 I understand. I just want to urge caution. Our human nature is pushing us to puff ourselves up and put others down, and what better way than to say I am of Christ and you are not. I don't think you need the warning necessarily, but I know I need to be reminded constantly.

Perhaps Flowers is unregenerate. Pray for him

@franciscusgomarus5086

2 жыл бұрын

I pray for his deceived followers

Leighton Flowers has mastered the art of theological hand waving. He has not given any substance to his argumentation for Provisionism BECAUSE his entire position is built upon the borrowed ground of Calvinism. He needs to find a new hobby which may be less lucrative.

@nickprodromou6097

2 жыл бұрын

I think of this often, reformed theology is a full fledged system that covers much more than soteriology, Provisionism doesn't even touch on eschatology, ecclesiology, angelology etc etc.. it's just purely polemic. I mean we can make some inferences of his doctrine of God, and it aint pretty.

@pinknoise365

2 жыл бұрын

@@nickprodromou6097 no it ain’t.

Leighton hates the truth he doesn't want the truth he doesn't want God to be God, he believes in a god who "KNOWS" the future but he won't accept the fact that "EVEN" if you believe in feewill Arminianism, that God "KNOWS" who's gonna believe & who isn't (Isa 46:10; Matt 7:22) etc, etc and he refuses to believe that He created them even though they're "NOT" going to believe and end up in hell why would he create a human being He "knows is going to end up in hell????? 1:because they "ARE" guilty 2: because He's God and not accountable to us and finally for "HIS GLORY"

Judging reveals you both have a power for flesh and blood that creates it. When you ask your self what was I before creation then your awake, secular history likes to judge John Baptist ( another allegory looking outside him like Saul) is called dung by Paul.

Leighton has poor understandings of TULIP, his arguments against judicial hardening totally and absolutely fail to consider the infralapsarian position of Reformed Theology, and his failure to truly understand how to exegete and exposit scripture is embarrassing. He has one strawman understanding of Reformed Theology, puts your picture on the head of the strawman, and then assaults it for hours upon hours. Wasted effort, wasted time. Love your work, James.

@oracleoftroy

2 жыл бұрын

@Thomas1989 Yes, the non-elect are not regenerated. So? Is God obliged to save anyone?

@robertfishter2862

2 жыл бұрын

Fair would be that everyone goes to the lake of fire. God said he will show mercy on whom he will show mercy. (Exodus 33:19)

@oracleoftroy

2 жыл бұрын

@Thomas1989 _"That's not merciful, it's unfair and cruel to damn billions to eternal torture without even giving them a chance."_ What do you mean "without even giving them a chance"? He gave us his law, even giving those without access to the law a conscience, yet we willingly violated God's law. We are without excuse and fully deserve the condemnation we earned through our hateful willful rebellion against God. You are right it's not merciful, it is just, and God is a just God. If you don't want to face the consequences of sin, don't sin. Having sinned, then cease your rebellion, fall on your knees, confess your sins, and beg for the Judge's mercy. People don't want to do that.

@zzzubrrr

2 жыл бұрын

Would you say that Dr. Whites representation of provisionism is not a straw man?

@zzzubrrr

2 жыл бұрын

@@oracleoftroy "People don't want to do that." Yeah, but its more than that, isn't it? People don't even have the ability to want to do that. It's like giving people the law requiring all to walk straight, but all the people are crippled. "yet we willingly violated God's law" huh? because of our free will? we had a real choice?

Translation: James White: Leighton Flowers is not balanced like ME. Leighton Flowers doesn't understand Calvinism, but I do. Leighton Flowers has a shallow understanding of Scripture, But I have a full understanding. Leighton Flowers exegesis is sub par, But MY exegesis clearly is right. Clearly I am more intelligent than Leighton Flowers. My God centered approach to scripture is the only way to approach. Anyone who disagrees is clearly wrong.

@boringbiblestudy1813

2 жыл бұрын

James White: I’m so annoyed that Flowers discussed me and provides content his subscribers enjoy in the form of teaching that Calvinism is wrong that I am going to do a video addressing Flowers that my subscribers will enjoy arguing that Provisionism is wrong.

@kreefoster

2 жыл бұрын

@@boringbiblestudy1813 James White: My response is because God is Sovereign. Leighton Flowers video is because he is just ignorant of Calvinism.

@boringbiblestudy1813

2 жыл бұрын

@@kreefoster James White: Flowers never really listens to any of my responses. Also James White: Why does Leighton Flowers do no ministry other than attack Calvinism? Leighton Flowers: For the millionth time, I am the head of evangelism for a large Christian organization. 95% of my time is spent of issues other than Calvinism. Soteriology 101 is my side project and the vast majority of my time is spent on things other than Calvinism. James White: But seriously, why does Leighton Flowers spend all his time talking about Calvinism when he is head of evangelism?

@boringbiblestudy1813

2 жыл бұрын

@@kreefoster James White: I’m so incensed that Leighton’s goal is to teach people his understanding of the scripture and convert people to Provisionism. I’ve never thought about trying to convert a provisionist to Calvinism. Now, I do of course teach my understanding of scripture and I do of course want people come to understand that Calvinism is true, but that’s totally different because…Sovereignty! Man-Centered World-View! One-Note-Banjo! Random word in Greek! Traditions of Men! Manic mocking laughter!

@boringbiblestudy1813

2 жыл бұрын

James White and All Other Hardcore Calvinists: God makes everything that happens happen. Nothing happens that God didn’t orchestrate to happen exactly as he wants. We love God’s deterministic sovereignty and cannot stop speaking about it! Now, let me speak constantly about how everything everybody who doesn’t think exactly like us does is horrible and stands in opposition to the will of God. Breaking from the James White voice, I have often wondered what a Calvinist would say if I pointed out that according to their worldview, I’m just as much doing the perfect will of God for my life as they are, and that any criticism they make towards me or anybody else is criticizing what God wanted us to do the entire time.

By degree

I would delight to see Dr. White and Dr. Flowers sit down and work this out. This is gone on way to long, regardless who is right or wrong.

@ACTSVERSE

2 жыл бұрын

White is too afraid. Leighton has invited him numerous times but White knows if people actually listen to Leighton instead of White's hysterical straw mans, the Christian view will sound much better than Calvinism to listeners.

The only good thing Flowers did, was show me how consistent Dr White was.

Leighton I’m sure will eventually get to the Woke Church. It will probably be titled, “Does Calvinism Lead to the Woke Gospel?”

@heisaltogetherlovely7235

2 жыл бұрын

Haha

@BrianJohnson-lx3zd

2 жыл бұрын

Don't give him ideas!!!

A view of man unknown in the early chuch, a god thats evil 🤔

His channel is called Soteriology101. Debunking Calvinism is the point of the page…..that’s why he makes videos about debunking Calvinism

@oracleoftroy

2 жыл бұрын

Why doesn't he discuss soteriology? Shouldn't his channel be called anticalvinism 101?

@Kman.

2 жыл бұрын

@@oracleoftroy You do know that he had lined up with Calvinist's teaching, right? It would then make sense, that the matter is close to his heart. Peruse his website if you haven't already done so, because you'll find much that isn't "ANTI", but rather a presentation of the positive.

@oracleoftroy

2 жыл бұрын

@@Kman. Is there a positive presentation of provisionism on his site that doesn't make reference to Calvinism? It doesn't have to be completely silent, but I'd like something more like the Canons of Dort in terms of balance, where even though Dort is a document produced to refute the remonstrance, yet it spends far more time laying out what Christians are to believe positively than what they are opposing. I don't follow him regularly anymore, but unless it's new in the last couple of months, I don't believe he does. Everything is in relationship to his peculiar definition of Calvinism. Very occasionally he'll go to a primary source like the confessions, get confused about how Calvinists can affirm what they say, and switch to his strawman version and pretend like the confessions don't say what they do. I still remember when shortly after changing the name from SBC "traditionalism" to provisionism, he played a clip of White speaking of God's provision as if the mere use of the word was exclusive to his side, ignorant that the doctrine of God's provision has been part of Reformed theology for centuries. Frankly, I would not suspect he used to be a Calvinist from how he explains Calvinism. Maaaaybe some hypercalvinist heretic, but not any historic Reformed position. Most of the time I agree with him that the thing he is arguing against is wrong, but it isn't historic confessional Reformed theology most of the time, but some strawman explicitly opposed in our confessions.

He’s a former Calvinist professor as in he professed to be a Calvinist.

It’s fascinating to watch this God decreed argument play out. In this corner you got God’s decreed position of Whites and in the other we have God’s decreed position of Flowers and in the middle we’ve got all the God decreed responses from the listeners. Can’t wait to find out who God decrees the winner! At least we can rest in the fact God will be glorified by all of it!

@ACTSVERSE

2 жыл бұрын

That went over the heads of Calvinist fatalists here. Their determinism is their own best self-defeating argument.

You BOTH should stop. His responses to Piper or MacArthur don't feel as negative, but the two of you are toxic for each other. That sounds odd. I know, but it's true. I think you both get more views/subscribers from responding to each other, but it's for negative reasons. Humanity likes to see the drama/fighting/arguing. They like to see people tear each other down. We should be edifying or "Speaking the truth in love," like Ephesians 4 says. That's why the left watches CNN to see them bashing the right and vice versa with Fox News. They're both poisoning the well of news. You guys, no matter how friendly you attempt to be, come across poisoning the well of fellowship and ministry. I've seen him debate or talk with other Calvinists, and it's never as ugly as it seems to be with you guys. That's not to put all the blame on you. I think he has some guilt here as well, because I think he should recognize that. Please reach out to him off camera, and ask to end this weird feud for God's glory and the edification of the body of Christ. Thank you & God bless

@Izthefaithful

2 жыл бұрын

Very good points I’d say I have to agree! And further it cause for followers of either side to be belligerent to each other. There’s an anti Calvinist guy constantly in these comment sections saying horrible things and pronouncing judgments on everyone in here. I’m sure the same exists on Flowers page, but you are very right in your assessments.

He's right, reformed theology is a beautiful system from God's word about all of life and our proper place of worship, not just about Soteriology. Provisionism could never offer such a rich and harmonious understanding of God's wonderful work. I wonder how often they can even put their Soteriology into Trinitarian terms. The Bible says that the Father decrees, the Son purchases, the Spirit applies. They seem to only have that middle one, and even then he's purchased the salvation of many people who will reject him, which begs the question of why they will go to hell if God is so sovereign?

@evanu6579

2 жыл бұрын

Were you saved when you believed or when Jesus died on the cross for you 2000 years ago?

I wear a badge of being banned from commenting on Soteriology 101. Reason? I asked him to ask homosexuals if they "believe they are born that way and cannot change." In other words, ask his audience and fan club to PROVE the doctrine of REPROBATION. He would've lost 50% of his fan base along with affirming Sovereighnty of God. You want a badge too? Ask Leighton to present the question. You'll join the club. 😇

@billyr9162

2 жыл бұрын

I got 4 badges. I was banned 4 times.

@2timothy23

2 жыл бұрын

I banned myself from his site when I had a writer there named Eric Kemp, who is actually part of the Provisitionist Perspective KZread channel (think of it as an offshoot of Flowers way of thinking), took a comment I made on a BTWN KZread video and attacked my character. In that comment I basically said I was frightened for Leighton Flowers and that he has to know what he's doing so it is purposeful. After that, I decided not to comment anymore.

@evanu6579

2 жыл бұрын

Are you saying that what homosexuals believe, proves your position? That’s not a very good argument.

@ManassehJones

2 жыл бұрын

@@evanu6579 I've replied 3xs. Looks like KZread keeps taking my reply down. Must be the word Somodite.

@evanu6579

2 жыл бұрын

@@ManassehJones They’re getting ridiculous. I’ve been having the same issues.

I wonder if the "Sovereign decrees of God were written down, would that book be included in the Canon of Scripture? The book of the Sovereign decrees of God Chapter 1 1 Whatsoever happens is the Sovereign decree of God. 2 I, God Sovereignly decree the fall of man, so that I can Sovereignly save some of mankind through my Son years later. Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt NOT eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Looks like the Sovereign decree is unbiblical. God put in his actual written word, God told Adam NOT to eat. Good Exegesis of this scripture is as follows. Gold told Adam NOT to sin and eat of the Fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Isogesis would read into it that God secretly Sovereignly decreed the fall of Man. James White your Exegesis is actually Isogesis, because of your Man centered idea of God's Sovereignty. Yes, Man centered. A man decided it would give God more glory if he controlled everything.

@billyr9162

2 жыл бұрын

The very Bible verse that you mention refutes you. You completely missed it. God's "decree" for Adam is right in the verse. And you completely missed it. Right in front of your nose.

@kreefoster

2 жыл бұрын

@@billyr9162 so God contradicted himself in the same verse. So God says dont eat it, but when i make eat it youll die. He commanded him Not to eat and decreed him to eat. I bet that will cause lots of trust. Commanded folks to not do something, but making em do it anyway. Sounds like you cant trust what he says. Love your neighbor until i decree otherwise. Dont sin unless i decree otherwise......for his glory of course.

@billyr9162

2 жыл бұрын

@@kreefoster I didn't write it. God did. I'm not confused about it. It's not a contradiction. He told him not to eat and then said he will. That's what God said. You said there was no decree but it's right there in front of your face. I didn't write it. I didn't make it up. God did.

@kreefoster

2 жыл бұрын

@@billyr9162 lol. Not a contradiction. Telling him not to do something then making him do it...... explain how this is not a contradiction.

@billyr9162

2 жыл бұрын

@@kreefoster How is it a contradiction? God isn't the one that ate it. You said there wasn't a decree but there is.

Leighton has never and will never broke out of cage stage synergism/provisinism. He’d not have a channel, nay, he’d have fully lost his purpose if he ignored the DL. 🤣

Dr Flowers only does anti Calvinism evangelism. 100% agree 👍 That is the problem. He said he had done other topics, but I never ever seen one.

@boringbiblestudy1813

2 жыл бұрын

He does do other topics on Soteriology 101, but it’s rare. 85% relate to Calvinism, but that’s what Soteriology 101 is, a ministry that addresses the claims of Calvinism, but That’s Not All He Does in Ministry. James White frequently suggests that this is all Leighton does, but it’s a side project. He uploads a couple hours of content a week and spends the rest of his time dealing with Christian evangelism, so it’s completely incorrect that this is all he does. It’s a tiny fraction. It’s just what Soteriology 101 does. And the thing is that James White has said this many times when he responds to Leighton, and Leighton has pointed this out when he responds to White, and then White will respond and say the same thing again. I like James White on social justice, KJV Onlyism, Islam, JW’s, and many other issues, but the fact that he can’t acknowledge that this is a tiny portion of what Leighton does seems to indicate that James isn’t listening to Leighton’s responses as closely as he says he is, and if White can’t pick up on a very obvious detail about the nature of the work Leighton does, how can White then claim to have fully understood Leighton’s complex exegetical arguments? I always suggest people listen to people in long form as they unpack their ideas if they truly want to understand what people are saying.

@abrahamcheng3398

2 жыл бұрын

@@boringbiblestudy1813 Could you show me any source that Leighton Flowers do not talk about Calvinism? Because many people say the same thing, but I never found any source online. All I found whether in Google, Facebook, KZread, is all about anti Calvinism, even if some gospel documentary, like Unpopular, was criticized by Leighton Flowers. That documentary is not about Calvinism, but because when I listen to Leighton Flowers he criticized it, as if it is all about Calvinism. That is why I don't choose to listen to Leighton Flowers. Reformed theology does not just talked about TULIP, it is very balanced, if you read the Westminster standards, Heidelberg Catechism and all that. So, what I see in Soteriology 101, it is as if the Reformed theology only taught about predestination and nothing else.

@boringbiblestudy1813

2 жыл бұрын

@@abrahamcheng3398 Crud, I wrote a longer response and accidentally deleted it. Short version, I was wrong about the content put out by Soteriology 101. It's not 85% about Provisionism. It's 99% about Provisionsim, so I'll admit when I am wrong. He does get on other topics in those videos, but it's always centered around Provisionism. Calvinist dominate the internet, and that's not a criticism. That's respectable that they are doing their best to get their understanding of God's truth out there, but it's hard to find many Provisionist voices to offer a different perspective, and that's what Flowers does. He wants to get the message out that from what he believes God has shown him, there is a more faithful understanding of the scriptures on these issues, so that's why he created Soteriology 101 for this issue. But it's just a side project. Leighton puts out a few hours of videos a week, but this isn't his job or his primary ministry. He's an apologist and evangelist who equips churches in these areas along with doing other things. That's where he spends the vast majority of his time. Here's his job and primary ministry: christianapologetics101.com/about/ Here's Leighton explaining this all himself: kzread.info/dash/bejne/m5hrzdlrZ8ffhKQ.html

@abrahamcheng3398

2 жыл бұрын

@@boringbiblestudy1813 I understand 😂😂 But apart from that, the problem I have when listening to Leighton Flowers, just like you said, it always centered on Provisionism, and this is a problem. Because, I like to read the Reformers and Puritans, what they talked about was not centered on Calvinism, in fact, they taught on marriage, Bible meditation, Justification by faith alone, and all sort of that. That is what I want, and I think that is healthy. If it goes unbalanced, and only centered on one traditions like Provisionism or Calvinism, then I think it will be unhealthy. That just what I think, and so I don't continue to listen to Leighton Flowers. And I read more on the Puritans, although they were Calvinist, but predestination is not all they talked about. They were very pastoral, for myself personally, when they deals with issues of meditation, love of God, forgiveness of God, hell, heaven, contentment, mortification of sin, and all that. That is what helpful for me. So, nice talking to you, brother. ☺️

@boringbiblestudy1813

2 жыл бұрын

@@abrahamcheng3398 Nice talking with you too, man. I get what you are saying that Christians shouldn't just get obsessed with one element of scriptural truth and neglect the others, but that's not what Provisionists do. In fact, I actually think Provisionists obsess over this issue a lot less than Calvinists. The majority of Christians are more aligned with Leighton's view than Calvinism, and yet you rarely hear most Christians preachers bring up the topic. Take one of my favorites, Mike Winger. He's addressed the issue, but it's come up in like 1 out of a 100 videos or so. On the other hand, I've been listening to John MacArthur teach through John, and he'll get to a section he feels teaches Calivinism like John 3 and John 6, and there will be entire messages just on that topic. I've also frequently heard Calivinists say they would only go to a church which has reformed doctrine, but I don't know if I've ever heard the opposite. Anyway, this is Leighton's thing on this channel, but it's not like that's all Provisionsts talk about. The fact that Leighton is the only one regularly putting info out on this topic is pretty good evidence that most non-reformed people Don't obsess about it. Anyway, thanks for listening to my rambling. Oh, and I get it if you listened to a couple of Leighton's videos and decided you didn't want to hear enough. I just wanted to encourage you to check him out if you'd only heard tiny snippets of him as he was being critiqued by others. Later.

Leighton Flowers constantly misrepresents Calvinism-like, over and over and over again. And no matter who tries to explain to him, he STILL refuses to listen and continues to put out the same argument, which isn’t really an argument at all! It is sad to me that his platform is ONLY “anti-Calvinism”. He is truly lost and swimming in a closed pool of his strange obsession and interpretation of Calvinism. Anyways, if you ARE indeed a SCHOLAR, why on earth would you focus on a mere man as John Calvin or how James White interprets scripture?? Focus on the WORD, the entirety of it-On Christ crucified….!!! Psalm 24:1!!!

@ACTSVERSE

2 жыл бұрын

But it was decreed by God, right?

Leighton Flowers has an unhealthy obsession with something he believes is completely wrong… if reformed theology is so utterly wrong and so easily refuted, then why make hundreds of videos, using the same argument and trying to squeeze out every possible perspective from it.

@matthayes533

2 жыл бұрын

Because God predestined him to?

@edgarrangel1509

2 жыл бұрын

@@matthayes533 what does that even mean? God doesn’t author secondary causes that violate human responsibility. If you think we believe that then you got it all wrong.

@matthayes533

2 жыл бұрын

@@edgarrangel1509 You asked "Why make hundreds of videos" I answered because he was predestined to. I see nothing about 2ndary causes that violate human responsibility. Much like Dr White often employs, it seems you are setting up a straw man so that you can knock it down. I dont blame you for that since God pre destined you to do that, but know that he also pre destined me to wish you good day and to not respond to this thread further.

@andrewtaylor1737

2 жыл бұрын

@@matthayes533 so you believe in predestination to the extent that every act is laid out before creation by a sovereign God?

@apilkey

2 жыл бұрын

@@edgarrangel1509 You said that God doesn’t author secondary causes? So He doesn’t ordain whatsoever comes to pass as per the WCF Chapter 3? Are there some exceptions to God ordaining whatsoever comes to pass?

If it is more important to you to convert Christians from Calvinism, rather than the lost to salvation in general, you might have your priorities out of wack.

@matthayes533

2 жыл бұрын

But according to Calvinism, Fowlers was pre determined to have his priorities out of wack right?

@jacoboburke5821

2 жыл бұрын

@@matthayes533 That isn't really an argument or a point. Does God allow Christians to have their own opinions and sometimes have misaligned priorities? Yes He does. I'm not sure how God knowing in advance but allowing Christians (which is just basic passive pre-determinism) to do and say wrong things excuses Christians from being wrong or doing wrong things. The sin and flaws that Christians show or exhibit are atoned for on the cross, including Leighton Flower's sin here too. Leighton literally ignores the sharing if the gospel to the lost in favor of converting Christians out of Calvinism as if that really mattered in the big picture at all. What matters is souls, who cares if they believe in a sovereign God?

@matthayes533

2 жыл бұрын

@@jacoboburke5821 Are you saying God allows this or He pre determines this? Cause you typed that He "allows" it.

@jacoboburke5821

2 жыл бұрын

@@matthayes533 it's the same thing.

@matthayes533

2 жыл бұрын

@@jacoboburke5821 If it is the same thing then why change the wording... so your words: "Does God predetermine Christians to have their own opinions and sometimes have misaligned priorities?" Would you answer that question with a "yes"? If so my question still stands and I will ask it differently - Are you suggesting that God predetermines people to have their "priorities out of wack"? Out of wack with what/whom? Out of wack with God's will? Are you suggesting that God pre-determines people to have their priorities out of wack with His sovereign will? Do Calvinists really suggest that God specifically, intentionally, and sovereignly wills people to have priorities out of wack with His sovereign will? See, I would say God certainly allows that, but I would not use the word "pre determine" as if he sat down and planned that Fowlers will believe and do X,Y, and Z.

I think Dr White is in love with Dr Flowers

@ACTSVERSE

2 жыл бұрын

White sure talks about Flowers an awfully lot. Flowers is living rent free in White's mind.

4:07 it is the height of hubris to think that Soteriology 101 wouldn’t exist without you Brother James. If Calvinism is false, we should expect to want ppl to leave it. This shouldn’t be surprising. This made me change my vote to “ignore entirely”.

@jacoboburke5821

2 жыл бұрын

Well James White didn't say that, the person who wrote that whom James was quoting said that. So I don't know how you spun that to say James White believes that. Also if provisionism is false, we should expect to want people to leave it, but you don't see entire youtube channels dedicated to try and get people out of provisionism. I mean James White's channel only deals with Calvinism defense about 20% of his videos maybe. The reason is probably because it really isn't a huge deal if Christians are Calvinist or Provisionist or whatever, as long as the gospel reaches the lost.

@pinknoise365

2 жыл бұрын

It would exist less for sure. 🤣😂 Like half of the episodes.

@andrewtaylor1737

2 жыл бұрын

🤦🏻‍♂️ context homie

Subscribed to Flowers God bless

If "dividing line" snippet is a subset of the main program, why is it so bandwidth affected? Video in and out, and sound warbling robot like.

@BrianJohnson-lx3zd

2 жыл бұрын

It's because he's been traveling lately and doing his videos on the road from the back of a camper. Normally there's no issues with his videos.

Leighton seems most upset whenever God sovereignty is brought up. But to my arminian brothers 2 questions: #1 "If God is not sovereign over all things then who is? #2 And if mankind has an autonomous will, ungoverned by God, what assurance do you have of any of Gods purpose being fulfilled? Do we just strip Isa. 46:9-11 and Eph.1:4-11 from the bible?

@apilkey

2 жыл бұрын

You obviously don’t know what the word sovereignty means. Did you make up a new definition of sovereignty?

@evanu6579

2 жыл бұрын

Please define “sovereign” for us. You don’t seem to know what the word means. I don’t think there would be too many Christians who would claim that God never interferes with man’s will to accomplish His own..... 2Tim 2:20 ¶ But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. You can be used for good or for evil depending upon what free will choices you’ve made throughout your life. You create your character. God uses you according to that character when He needs to. So we all agree that the kings heart can be turned whichever way God chooses. We also know that God hardens people. You don’t harden people you control. You just control them how you want them. You harden people to stifle their will. Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. God was making the Jews jealous so that He might have mercy on them all. Using human emotions proves will. He’s playing on their will to invoke a positive response. So why don’t you believe all of the bible instead of just the parts where God determines some things?

@Kman.

2 жыл бұрын

Like s/one so aptly said, they might use some of the same vocabulary, but they're reading from a different dictionary. *PS:* Leighton is not Arminian if you were suggesting that.

Flowers is a KZread hustling troll

Wow! Shame on you, Dr. James White! I have listened to both your YT videos and Dr. Flowers’ videos and you, sir, need to repent of your un-Christ-like behavior toward a brother-in-Christ. You have accused Dr. Flowers of not listening to you (3:23) and yet he has played your presentations verbatim on his videos and addressed them directly with Scripture. Just because he disagrees does not mean he does not listen. You claim his evangelism is always anti-Calvinism (4:36 &14:23) but you have absolutely no idea of how he evangelizes outside of his YT channel. His channel has a focus on Soteriology101. Why is that not okay? Do you have a problem with channels that focus on crochet, too? You claim sincere Christians must not have a strong understand of Reformed theology if they find Dr. Flowers’ arguments compelling (9:43). So you know all the Christians that find his arguments compelling? Of course you don’t. What illogical argumentation and from someone who should know better. Repent, Dr. White! You do harm to the cause of Christ in this condescending and prideful behavior.

@ManassehJones

2 жыл бұрын

Unlike Leigjton, James White allows dissenters on his channel to express their clear misunderstandings, and doesn't ban them. What's that tell you about the difference in these two mens personality? Here you are telling an elect child of God to repent, an elder, and that not before the Church and with two or more witnesses, bringing railing accusations against him. You may want to think and pray about that.

@peterfox7663

2 жыл бұрын

@@ManassehJones The channel doesn't ban opposing views. It banned YOU. Why? I can't say for sure but after reading your posts I can't blame them.

@ManassehJones

2 жыл бұрын

@@peterfox7663 Thanks Peter. If everyone agrees with me I'd be no different than "Christians" who celebrate in Pride Parades. Are you one those?

@yvonnedoulos8873

2 жыл бұрын

@@ManassehJones - Dr. White’s Alpha & Omega YT channel allows for no comments. This post is a rare opportunity. I do not recognize Dr. White as someone who I, as his sister-in-Christ, cannot call him to repentance. He is clearly sinning. Your argument is similar to Dr. White’s by not addressing my points of contention; you fell into the trap of using a red-herring argument. Also, how do you know that I didn’t pray about my comment? How do you know if the Lord hasn’t inspired me to respond in this manner? Try to be objective, brother. Try to understand the arguments and focus on them as opposed to your personal feelings about these men.

@ManassehJones

2 жыл бұрын

@@yvonnedoulos8873 No, you're a woman, first of all, speaking to an Elder. If you have personal issues then address them with your husband at home, and "he" can go personally to Dr. White, not you. That's doctrine, not feelings, read it. Secondly, praying for the Lord to give you wisdom before rebuking an elder, when it's contrary to what the Lord Himself tells you not to do in His Word, is rather, well, very Leightonitish of you. Read the Word. Ask for wisdom. "For what do you have that you have not recieved?" It must be given you, its a gift, not of works, just like justification, sanctification, and glorification.

Wonder how the Leighton-ites feel about Pauls message ...... 1 Timothy 1:20 KJVS Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

@granthollandvideos

2 жыл бұрын

Oo a touchy one, and we must try to believe the best and never place neferious intent on anyone . How do you see blasphemy.? Would it in its most simplistic way, be taking all of Satan the world and evil, and somehow attributing those to God.

Choice meats, lol.

Dr. white, the king of…. Ad hominem.

As far as I know LF is open to brotherly discussion about these things…. He Only responds to you when you bring him up…… He speaks about other calvinists also…… I think you are the one on the run…… You do have a point about the professorship thing, he may need to rewrite that, but if you listen to him honestly you would know. He uses you as a teaching moment…. And I think he should continue to do so, because his maturity exceeds yours. Remember we all have to answer the Christ for how e treat one another. So even if your r right about the 5 points you wrong Christ when you speak the way you do….

@gch8810

2 жыл бұрын

His maturity does not exceed Dr. White's. Flowers is immature in that he does not know how to interpret the Bible using proper Biblical exegesis, his entire focus is on refuting Calvinism, and he believes that Calvinists are more of a threat to the church than open theists. White seeks to evangelise to Roman Catholics, Muslims, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, atheists, and others. While Flowers only really attacks Calvinism and his channel's focus is not on spreading the gospel of Christ.

@zacheaston6727

2 жыл бұрын

We do have to answer the Christ on how we treat others. But unfortunately if you're going to follow the false god that Leighton Flowers believes in we have a totally different Jesus.

@zacheaston6727

2 жыл бұрын

@@gch8810 As what Paul says in Scripture: For we can do nothing against the truth, but only for the truth. 2 Corinthians 13:8 Flowers attacks against Calvinism because the truth of God does not reside in him and so all he can do is attack God himself. Flowers is no different than the untaught and unlearned that Peter speaks of who twist the scriptures to their destruction. Flowers hates the God of scripture and he should be treated as the unbeliever that he is. His followers have to come on to James White's page and attack James's character because that's all they have going for them.

@peterw1642

2 жыл бұрын

Flowers posted that video "Is James White right about Matthew 23" completely out of the blue. White responded to that. You are completely wrong about who provokes who. Look at Flowers' site and compare to White's. Flower's is full of videos attacking White. White has very few dealing with Flowers.

@franciscusgomarus5086

2 жыл бұрын

We certainly will have a lot to answer for if we preach heresy like Leighton "Choice Meats" Flowers does

Flowers hammers on Calvinism too much

First minute was a direct example of bearing false witness. This 98% figure and claim there is 'no positive' commentary of biblical truths, is dishonest. As the man (Leighton Flowers) goes through his critiques of doctrines he is refuting, he walks through scripture from the perspective of no longer being a Calvinist. The positive commentary is the explanation for why he no longer holds Calvinism to be true, which is in fact a positive case for his current position. This is gross.

Flowers debunks Calvinism. Why should he do videos about things you agree on? He is waking people up to the stupidity and errors of Calvinism. And nice try dissing Flowers by claiming that he is “trying to find his way.” Flowers is beating Calvinism down and winning. And he is doing it biblically and graciously. There is no doubt that Flowers is living rent free in your head.

Ugh. Dr white, can you deal honestly and charitably for once?

@billyr9162

2 жыл бұрын

Go back and tell your beloved one string banjo player maybe he can play another note besides Calvin. There was nothing dishonest about what Mr. White said.

@ACTSVERSE

2 жыл бұрын

LOL. It's James White, so no.

@ACTSVERSE

2 жыл бұрын

@@billyr9162 Except a decade old lie. Other than that....

@billyr9162

2 жыл бұрын

@@ACTSVERSE What's the lie?

@ACTSVERSE

2 жыл бұрын

@@billyr9162 Same lie as above. But you already read my comment, so?

LF claims to be an ex Calvinist, as far as I’m concerned the principle of 1 John 2:19 applies to his claim as a Calvinist no different then an individual who Claims to have been a Christian at some point but no longer professes that faith. They went out from us because they where not of us for if they where of us they would have remained with us. The doctrines of grace are nothing more and nothing less then biblical Christianity and if you understand it you’ll never abandon it.

@kreefoster

2 жыл бұрын

Unless God decrees otherwise.

@ACTSVERSE

2 жыл бұрын

Yep, you can't leave the cult of Calvinism or you were never a Calvinist to begin with! Good thinking, Shirley.

@ACTSVERSE

2 жыл бұрын

@@christopherbrewer4421 LOL

Isn't he just doing what God sovereignly and eternally decreed that he would do? Correction, Dr. White. God only interacts with SOME of His creatures, the ones that He wants. The rest He just casts aside.

@oracleoftroy

2 жыл бұрын

So? Are you under the false impression that those words are equivalent to asking, "Isn't God directly manipulating Leighton like a puppet?" No. Of course God designed and created humans, and so decreed that they have brains and mouths to speak their own thoughts and a free will to form their own thoughts and the liberty and contingency of second causes to express that will within God's design for creation. White is critiquing what Leighton is doing with the gifts God decreed he would have.

@RanierMedic

2 жыл бұрын

@@oracleoftroy No, God isn't directly manipulating Leighton like a puppet, because that would indicate a current manipulation. What I am saying, which is in accordance with your Gnostic/Augustinian/Calvinistic world view, is that God already decreed that Leighton would post that poll, and that Dr White would respond to it, because NOTHING can, does, or will happen that God didn't already eternally and "sovereignly" (I used quotation marks because the actual definition doesn't apply) decreed that it is what would happen. So, no, Dr. White isn't using God given gifts to refute or rebut Leighton, he is just doing what God decreed he would do from before creation.

@oracleoftroy

2 жыл бұрын

@@RanierMedic _"So, no, Dr. White isn't using God given gifts to refute or rebut Leighton, he is just doing what God decreed he would do from before creation."_ You clearly don't understand what Reformed Theology is saying then. Those two things aren't in contradiction but rather two different ways of saying the same thing. If you think otherwise, cite some sources, preferably from our own confessions (White holds to the London Baptist Confession, I hold to the Westminster Confession which is mostly the same, and most remaining Calvinists not covered by those two hold to the Three Forms of Unity). You seem to think that if God decrees it, somehow that means he can't actualize the decree through second causes, which is directly contradicted by 3.1 of either White's or my confession (they have a shared history, so the references tend to line up).

@RanierMedic

2 жыл бұрын

@@oracleoftroy why would I site references from your own confessions to refute reformed doctrine? Tell me where I am wrong in accordance with Calvin: God only wants a few humans, the rest he double predestined to be cast into hell (first that they would be dead and blind to Him, and then that they would go to hell). God determined that, despite His statements to the contrary, that Israel would sacrifice their children to Baal/Molach (Jer 19).

@oracleoftroy

2 жыл бұрын

@@RanierMedic _"why would I site references from your own confessions to refute reformed doctrine?"_ Well, because I assume you are a Christian if you post here. Christians love Jesus. Jesus said if you love me obey my commandments. One of his commandments is to not bear false witness. In keeping with this, he commands us to bring forward witnesses to back up claims we make against another. The Reformed Confessions serve as an excellent witness for what Reformed Christians confess, so if you are going to claim that "Calvinists say X" it's nice to back that up directly with what they indeed say from their own writings. Christians should care about truth, even the truth of what others actually believe though you disagree with it. If you hate God or are an Atheist or something, sure lie about what we believe, but if you are a Christian, that's why you should base your refutations on what we actually confess. I don't mind you asking question. Do know that I will answer them from the point of view of a historic confessional Reformed Christian who holds to the Westminster Confession, and I would encourage you to read it if you want a more thorough understanding of Reformed beliefs. _"Tell me where I am wrong in accordance with Calvin: God only wants a few humans, the rest he double predestined to be cast into hell (first that they would be dead and blind to Him, and then that they would go to hell)."_ I would disagree with that whole line. Reformed Theology takes no official stance on how many will ultimately be saved beyond it being a great multitude from every tongue, tribe and nation. I personally think that the final tally will have a majority of all humans who ever existed saved, probably a vast majority. God is mighty to save. God's Predestination is about the elect, not the reprobate. We are all already condemned for our sin, so it is out of this condemned humanity that God elects to save some. The rest he passes over and leaves them to do as they desire. It's "double" because the elect are predestined to salvation by God, and the reprobate are predestined to damnation by their willful sin. _"God determined that, despite His statements to the contrary, that Israel would sacrifice their children to Baal/Molach (Jer 19)."_ What do you mean by "determined"? God did not directly cause them to disobey his law. He did create (and thus determine) human beings such that they are mortal, which enabled humans to kill each other and so sin in this way.

Flowers has a very flat and one-dimensional understanding of Calvinistic soteriology (and I’m being generous). He’s also demonstrated no real knowledge of the larger category of Reformed theology (ecclesiology, eschatology, sacraments, etc). His system of provisionism is only polemic in nature. His exegesis is polemic in that he’s not trying to show what Scripture says. He’s made up his mind that the Bible can’t be teaching Calvinism so he twists and distorts whatever texts he has to in order to support his argument against Calvinism. When someone puts out a video with 10 different interpretations to a passage and says they’re all valid except the Calvinistic interpretation, that should shoot up massive red flags. Not because he rejects Calvinism, but because all objectivity has been lost.

@mmttomb3

2 жыл бұрын

Amen! I really wish Leighton would drop the "former Calvinist Professor" monicker. TOTALLY misleading. Quite obvious he, not only wasn't a "former Calvinst Professor", but he never ever understood its biblical theology.

If you truly understand the doctrines of grace you would never fall for Flower’s nonsense. All he does is create straw men to distort Sovereign Grace

If Leighton Flowers wasn't a dishonest and malicious person I'd feel bad for him that you laugh at him but, since he is, I don't. Provisionism is just another word for Pelagianism.

@kreefoster

2 жыл бұрын

God must be so proud of you having such love and mercy. Quite the malicious comment you just made yourself.

@Phill0old

2 жыл бұрын

@@kreefoster It isn't malice it is an observation of the character of a person. I can hardly complain that a man is called a murderer if he murders. I can't complain if LF is called out for what he is.

I support Leighton Flowers. It's nice to hear a non-Calvinistic viewpoint when most of these other videos online shove it down your throat. Calvinists are so obsessed with what they feel is giving God "glory" that they in turn end up blaming God for all evil whether they believe that or not. All White tends to do is avoid the actual points of contention and attack character. He latches onto a single idea or statement that isn't even the main point at hand and then mocks it. Calvinism, if followed consistently, always leads to fatalism.

@oracleoftroy

2 жыл бұрын

_"It's nice to hear a non-Calvinistic viewpoint when most of these other videos online shove it down your throat."_ But why Leighton? There are so many better teachers out there. Try Mike Winger for example, he'll actually touch on how Christians are supposed to live out their lives and interact with the world rather than singularly focus on anti-Calvinism. _"Calvinists are so obsessed with what they feel is giving God "glory" that they in turn end up blaming God for all evil whether they believe that or not."_ Actually, that's what your side says in reaction to what we believe about God, which says more about what you think of God being in charge than our side. _"Calvinism, if followed consistently, always leads to fatalism."_ Again, that's the conclusion your side reaches. It shows that you think man has to be in control because God will mess it up if he is truly the King of kings. It's the lie of the garden: that man can be like God. Our side affirms man's free will in conjunction with God being God. Your side can't let those things be compatible; it's either man's determinations or God's.

@joshcarz

2 жыл бұрын

​@@oracleoftroy "But why Leighton? There are so many better teachers out there. Try Mike Winger for example, he'll actually touch on how Christians are supposed to live out their lives and interact with the world rather than singularly focus on anti-Calvinism." I watch Mike Winger. I watch many channels. Leighton's channel is specifically about countering Calvinism. He does many other things in life other than that channel. It's silly to say that is all he does just because that's the focus on that specific channel. That a lame argument. "Actually, that's what your side says in reaction to what we believe about God, which says more about what you think of God being in charge than our side." Actually, we believe it to be inconsistent to say God decrees man to reject God, to never be able to choose otherwise, and yet somehow still be held accountable for those actions to which he was powerless to resist and then be sent to an eternal hell just so God could display his glory. We believe that makes God unjust and monstrous. "Again, that's the conclusion your side reaches. It shows that you think man has to be in control because God will mess it up if he is truly the King of kings. It's the lie of the garden: that man can be like God. Our side affirms man's free will in conjunction with God being God. Your side can't let those things be compatible; it's either man's determinations or God's." This comment clearly shows you don't fully understand the free will argument. Compatibilistic free will makes no sense if that will is ultimately determined by God. How then can it be free? Free to do what is decreed? Why is the Gospel not enough? "but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name." "saved by Grace THROUGH FAITH" . I don't believe man is in control. The bible says time and time again that people first believed or had faith and then God saved them. Believing or faith is not what saves but God says those are the group He saves. The purpose of the Gospel is to make an appeal. Man is totally depraved ON HIS OWN but God didn't leave man on his own. He made a way! We can respond to Christ's drawing of all men. That is the Gospel or good news. I am nothing without Christ. To respond to the Gospel is to admit your nothing on your own and the only option you have is Christ. My God is powerful enough to work all things together for good without having to have decreed them all beforehand.

james white... your sun is definitely setting..... as is reformed theology resurgence and your textual theories

Stop talking about Leighton, geez

Don't get angry when we do not believe you.. maybe the grace of God did not allow us to believe you.. that is the logic of calvinism. So, just apeal to Grace... because you cannot force us to believe whatevwr you say here.:)

"GOD is One." HE is One Literal HOLY SPIRIT...ONE!

James, the reason Leighton has a channel about provisionism is because he didn’t want to have it in the same place as his apologetics and evangelism work, because he considers the provisionism-Calvinism debate to be important but a secondary issue. Further, your snobby attitude and snarky vibe you give off that treats Leighton like he's an idiot and not even in your league when it comes to theology and the Scriptures is not a winsome approach and quite prideful on your part. I am grateful for your ministry in speaking against the woke church and other false teachings, but in this case, it's a blind spot for you whether it's intentional or not. You seem to talk about leaders in cults and other religions in a more loving and respectful demeanor than you do this brother in the Lord.

@Pnice971

6 ай бұрын

Robert- it’s time that James actually call Flowers a false teacher- a heretic. James needs to STOP calling Flowers his brother. James is “rebuking” the heretic and I think he should be even more blunt in this matter, and wasn’t strong enough!

@robertjames6317

6 ай бұрын

@Pnice971 you're basically saying any Christian who isn't a Calvinist is not a Christian? That's definitely not true. Besides, James admits in this video that he doesn't even watch Leighton's program, so he's basically attacking his character rather than giving a thoughtful argument, showing why he believes Leighton is wrong. He's in no position to criticize, and yet he does it over and over again and slanders him by calling him a liar at the end of the video. The Lord is not pleased at all with this cringeworthy behavior.

To deny Calvinism is to deny scripture. Simple. So Leighton denying Calvinism is deny the very Word of God. You can't get around that.

@the_maskedtoaster844

2 жыл бұрын

sorry man, calvinism is not equal to the scripture. It is not even an essential such as the Sinfullness of man and man needing salvation from sin. You are putting calvinism in a higher place then it should be.

@PreachermanPiper

2 жыл бұрын

@@the_maskedtoaster844 I did not place Calvin above anything. I simply stated, that the truths Calvin writes on as election and predestination are scripture.

@evanu6579

2 жыл бұрын

@@PreachermanPiper Why did Paul think that he could use jealousy to bring more Israelites to faith?

I honestly feel sorry for you have to continually make videos against brother Flowers. You promote a gnostic view of man and a view of God and yes Luther was wrong!!! Your god is none other than Allah wake up James

Pitiful of leighton.

10 times in 6 months is how often Dr. Flowers has had videos about Dr. white. The magic of the internet is there is a record anyone can check when you make claims. Complaining about Leighton’s KZread channel is liking complaining about finding no baseball on the NFL channel.

@pinknoise365

2 жыл бұрын

How much does he mention White tho?! 🧐

I feel like White and Flowers are secretly friends like Ali and Frazier; they just argue like this for the views. 🤣😂

@BubbaReece

2 жыл бұрын

@NicoCoco what

First time I heard TULIP was from shortwave preacher Harold Camping. Seemed harmless. Then I saw debates with White and Denver TV personality Bob Enyart. Open Theist versus God is the compatibilistic author of all cancers and sins. Following JW led me to a debate with some Texan, Leighton Flowers. As a Phoenix native, how did it become a magnet for Anderson and White ? Sad.

Repetitions? The Lord frowns on such things

The gospel of White vs the gospel of Flowers... how has such any meaning? Both are men and thus both are man-made gospels. Read Paul and John on the subject, please...

@oracleoftroy

2 жыл бұрын

Good advice. Maybe after that, compare these two men's teachings to that of Paul and John and see which one is closer and how far they stray away. Rebuke both where they stray from the Bible.

@pierreschiffer3180

2 жыл бұрын

@@oracleoftroy Well, to implement your proposal means to compare the interpretations of White and Flowers to your own interpretations of Scripture, which still does not make sense. We are all men - White, Flowers, you, me - and what we make of Scripture are thus all man-made gospels. To compare with each other is to compare one man-made gospel to the other, which is utterly meaningless, for man's interpretations are arbitrary. What is the alternative? How not to follow a man, but Jesus Christ instead? That we do by not composing our own gospel, but rather to accept His! ;)

@oracleoftroy

2 жыл бұрын

@@pierreschiffer3180 Frankly, I'm not sure if you are posting in good faith or if this is a backhanded insult to insinuate that anyone who considers White's words are somehow worshiping White. Getting our theology directly from the Word is explicitly taught on Reformed Theology, and it is usually divisive anti-Calvinists with no better argument who pretend that because enemies of Reformed Theology called it "Calvinism" we somehow worship Calvin, or if we listen to White's thoughts, we somehow are completely unable to separate White's teachings from the Bible. So forgive me if I have misunderstood your motive based on past experience, but that is my concern and why I was nudging you toward the Reformed position of Sola Scriptura (not Solo Scriptura, look up the difference we make if this isn't clear). The Bible teaches us that we are to beware false teachers and wolves, and to do so requires us to know what the Bible teaches and judge the teachings of others. I am confident that anyone who knows what the Bible teaches in full and compares Leighton and White's teachings to the Bible will find Leighton off in la la land and White fairly solidly close to the Bible in most matters. I don't think White's teaching is perfect (He's a baptist after all), but no one has perfect theology this side of eternity. (I'm not even sure we could have perfect theology post-ressurection with glorified bodies truly free from sin, the creator-creature distinction is too great.)

@pierreschiffer3180

2 жыл бұрын

@@oracleoftroy Wrong, my friend. First of all, I do not write that people worship White: I write that people follow White. Such is objective: people accept White's understanding of Scripture as the Gospel of Jesus, while it is the gospel of White. Other people follow other teachers again: everyone selects their own. Such is - again fully objective - not of Jesus, but of those men who compose their own gospel and try to sell it to others. In case you find all this somehow insulting or whatever, please read the early Church and you find this with virtually any father or saint. Secondly, we are not to "Getting our theology directly from the Word", as you put it. This might indeed be taught by Reformed Theology, but this is not taught by Jesus or Paul or any other apostle. When we do so, everybody comes up with another interpretation and soon enough we have a world full of different gospels and churches... oh wait: this we have already :) Jesus is one and so is His message: there is no room in divine Revelation for different versions: it cannot exist. If you want to be sure, think about the earliest Church: the New Testament was not even written yet and most people could not even read: so much for "Getting our theology directly from the Word". Thirdly, what you finally write is truly off as well. I refer to "The Bible teaches us that we are to beware false teachers and wolves, and to do so requires us to know what the Bible teaches and judge the teachings of others". So in order to spot false interpretations of Scripture, you compare all to your own interpretations of Scripture?? How does that have any meaning, my friend? What if your own understanding of the Bible is false? You will brand another as a false teacher or wolf, while you cannot possibly know who is wrong or right. Do you see now how all these different gospels and churches come to life...? :) Finally, you write "I am confident that anyone who knows what the Bible teaches...". My friend: every Protestant talks like that: they are all confident that they know the Bible and yet they all teach something different?! How many manmade gospels do we come across every day? The followers of Flowers will say the exact same as you do, but then regarding White... it is all this man vs that man and the meaning is utterly null and void. You write how nobody has perfect theology: let me ask you this then: do you admit to the possibility that your understanding of justification and salvation is false? I pose this question to many, yet I do not receive many good answers...:)

@oracleoftroy

2 жыл бұрын

@@pierreschiffer3180 So did your pope personally approve your post or is this just your own independent interpretation of your churches teachings? What you accuse us of is just as much a problem if we apply it to your own private interpretation of your church's teachings. I think your argument shoots yourself in the foot. How would you have me verify that what you claim is true? It will likely be quite similar to how I would ask others to verify what I say is true, go to the source. My ultimate source is the Bible, so verify what I say against what the Bible says.

Mr White it really bothers me that you would say that the vast majority of provisionists are Christians. How could you say that they are Christians when they follow a different god than that of scripture teaches.

@willisfletcher6260

2 жыл бұрын

We don’t have the authority to say who is definitively Christian and who is not. We can judge the fruit but not the tree. I was once modalistic, then an Arianist, and averred free will. Now I am a five point Calvinist who also holds to the historic view of the Trinity, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. So, maybe some provisionists God will open their eyes to their errors. One thing I’m convinced of…God will not allow His ppl to remain in error of who He is.

@willisfletcher6260

2 жыл бұрын

Also, God doesn’t save and keep saved via knowledge. His ppl will grow in faith and knowledge. Some quicker than others, but they will grow.

@billyr9162

2 жыл бұрын

@@willisfletcher6260 You're supposed to say whether they brother or not. You don't know whether they're going to heaven or not. But you're supposed to judge their doctrine. Flowers is not a brother. He's an anti Christ. That's a fact.

@peterw1642

2 жыл бұрын

Why are you so quick to want to condemn? Don't you realize that you were saved through no work of your own and no good thing in you? Be thankful, not judgemental.

@willisfletcher6260

2 жыл бұрын

@@billyr9162 But who is to say God won’t open his eyes to his errors. I held to some horrible beliefs, but that was early on in my Christian life. So I can see where ppl are coming from with their statements regarding Dr. Flowers. I agree he is on shaky ground, but I’m not willing to call him lost, although it doesn’t look good.

He’s a joke

@ACTSVERSE

2 жыл бұрын

I agree but James White thinks highly of himself.

The bottom line is that the majority of Baptists are ' subjective ' in their Theology. Or another way of saying it is that they are ' man-centered ' in their Theolgy ( belief system ) They have a weak understanding of the GRACE of God. And this weakness comes from a soft understanding of SIN. When one understands the depth and devastation of the concept of SIN, only then can one begin to comprehend the glory and praise of God's GRACE toward us. If SIN is not such a big deal, then GRACE becomes nothing in our understanding. This lack of biblical understanding is the reason a lot of arminian Baptists and others who hold to this particular theolgy have a weak concept of God. A weak concept of God has a direct influence in their elevation of the goodness of mankind. So begins the slippery slope of provisionist arminianism towards semi-pelagianism. Very hard to try and come back up that slippery slope.

@Pnice971

6 ай бұрын

These Arminians believe that salvation is conditioned on man and that man’s free will makes all the difference between heaven and hell. This my freind is a FASLE GOSPEL, and Flowers is a false teacher producing bad fruit. A bad tree cannot bear good fruit. A false gospel cannot produce a true believer! Arminians need to be commanded to repent of believing a false gospel and to believe the truth. They are lost and will die in their sins if they do not repent and abandon this false gospel

""What the baking channel only talks about baking, how unbalanced. "".

@billyr9162

2 жыл бұрын

No it would be like the baking channel only talking about baking the same apple pie over and over and over again for 8 years. Ignoring the fact that there is roasts and all kinds of other food you could bake.

@granthollandvideos

2 жыл бұрын

@@billyr9162 😀,Yes the analogy falls a little short l, but in truth all the other stuff you mention would be the very many various doctrines ideas and history of Calvanism. But the idea of the channel is to refute Calvanism. And it would need more study , seeing as it is a false "internal understanding", of coarse, if you are a provisionist.

@billyr9162

2 жыл бұрын

@@granthollandvideos No my analogy is perfect. You watch 45 videos of his and the rest are all the same. He says the same thing every video.

@granthollandvideos

2 жыл бұрын

@@billyr9162 o ok yes your right of coarse, the analogy perfect in every way😀. Would have preferred a BALANCED chat. Keep well my friend

@billyr9162

2 жыл бұрын

@@granthollandvideos About 4 years ago I listened to his channel 8 hours A-day for 6 months It's not like I don't know what's on there. To be honest with you James white does a really bad job. There's a new channel that deals with flowers on his own intellectual logical level. Because all flowers does is logic. He doesn't know Greek he doesn't know Hebrew. He doesn't teach The Bible. He compares and contrast what calvinists say against what is logical to him. That's all he does. The new channel is called the consistent Calvinist. Flowers even responds to the guy. The guy's philosophy is a lot like Gordon Clark. Which flowers has never dealt with Gordon Clark. Gordon Clarke was one of the biggest calvinist there ever was. But flowers wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot Pole. If you want to see flowers get walloped with his own logic then check out that channel.

James is salty

How dare grandma only talk about knitting on her youtube knitting channel. Come on Dr. White, at least start the video with a better opener. You do realize he has an entire life outside of his 'soteriology' channel, teaching apologetics and every other aspect, right? You people can sure point out logical fallacies among others every single day, but you wouldn't know when you make one yourself if it smacked you in the face. But you didn't let me down, cause you once again misrepresented Leighton over and over and threw up fallacy after fallacy.

@billyr9162

2 жыл бұрын

Yes it's about like grandma talking about knitting. Knitting the same sweater for 8 years and talking about it. I'd say that's about right.

@justgopherit3454

2 жыл бұрын

@@billyr9162 wow, you sure have a low view of soteriology, not to mention zero knowledge of knitting. Even though the former is obviously much more in depth than the latter, to say either could not be discussed in perpetuity is quite ignorant at best.

@billyr9162

2 жыл бұрын

@@justgopherit3454 I was agreeing with you. It's like grandma talking about knitting the same sweater for 8 years. I'm sure gradma can talk about knitting that same sweater for another 80 years. Pretty deep there buddy.

@ACTSVERSE

2 жыл бұрын

White has been beating that lie to death for a decade. He's shameless. He's been rebuked by fellow Calvinists for it, by Leighton as well, but little lies told by little men have little legs to run.

@oracleoftroy

2 жыл бұрын

@@ACTSVERSE Where are the rebukes from other Calvinists concerning White pointing out that Leighton's entire internet presence is solely focused on tearing down Calvinism? That would be an interesting read/watch.

Leighton teaches on soteriology, Salvation. He actually teaches the Bible. He also teaches without Free will you cannot have Love. Salvation is conditional. God through Jesus Christ brings His grace and we respond and bring our own Faith to be reconciled to God, have eternal life. On another Topic, James White believes in placing the Mosaic Law on all nations Theonomy . Acts 15 and Galatians forbids anyone from being under the Law.

@toddstevens9667

2 жыл бұрын

James White does not believe that the nations have been put under the Mosaic Law. That’s nonsense.

@theresaread72

2 жыл бұрын

@@toddstevens9667 Theonomy the belief that because God choose s only a few to be saved,called the Elect, the rest must be under the Law of Moses. On James White’s show the dividing line highlights He has Joe Boots from the Ezra Institute on the 2Kingdoms on KZread the date says 6 months ago. Boots who wrote the book, The Mission of God. James White is an elder at Apologia Church and James White said that this book is the mission statement at Apologia. I am not a Calvinist, but I’m not lying either. Jeff Durban, Pastor of Apologia Church follows RJRushdoony, Greg Bahnsen who are Post Millinial Preterists that Jesus Came back in 70 a.d. and now society must fix the spheres of culture by placing the law of Moses on these nations and institutions like education, media etc.

@toddstevens9667

2 жыл бұрын

I could be wrong. I’ve been wrong before. But I’ve heard him teach on the Mosaic Law many times and I’ve never heard anything but standard Christian doctrine from him on the topic. However, now that I think about it, that was years ago I heard him preach on the topic. He might have changed perspectives. But that would be a very odd doctrine for a Calvinist to have. And that would be a huge change in how he read and understood scripture. Since he will readily admit that not even Israel is under the Mosaic law at this point, it would be very, very odd for him to believe that non-Jewish nations are under the law. Of course, I could be wrong. It wouldn’t be the first time, and probably not the last. My apologies for calling your comment nonsense.

@toddstevens9667

2 жыл бұрын

@@theresaread72 So I just watched Apologia church’s sermon on the Law and listened to James White talk to Doug Wilson on the topic for about an hour. Whether you think White believes ‘the nations’ should be under the Mosaic Law depends on what you mean. He doesn’t think Iceland needs to implement animal sacrifices to have our sins forgiven. He doesn’t believe that Mongolia needs to mandate the observance of the Feast of Tabernacles. That’s what I thought you meant by your comment. That’s clearly not true. If you meant that White thinks that there are some aspects of the Mosaic Law which carry over to NT Christians, then yes, that’s true. He quotes Paul in Romans 13 placing Christians under the law found in Leviticus to ‘Love Your Neighbor.’ Paul mentions, as does Jesus, that love encapsulates the moral aspects of the Mosaic Law. So it all depends on what exactly you mean by your comment about White. He doesn’t think the nations are obligated to enact Mosaic ceremonies, rituals, sacrifices, and strictures. But he does believe that there are aspects of the Mosaic law which apply to Gentile Christians, as does the Apostle Paul. He gave quite a few verses from the NT Epistles in support of this view. Feel free to watch the videos if you want more detail.

@oracleoftroy

2 жыл бұрын

@@theresaread72 Theonomy has nothing whatsoever to do with salvation. Theonomy is the position that civil laws ought to follow the general equity of the Bible's civil law. It's about how God would have us govern a country and deal with crime.