I love how Javik keeps destroying Liara's spirit. "How did your advanced race unite the universe in peace?" "Dude we just killed people."

@Ozymandias2x

Жыл бұрын

"They were delicious."

@TerasOde

Жыл бұрын

And we haven't even gotten to the main dish yet.

@Broomer52

Жыл бұрын

Honestly a pretty solid way to ensure peace “kill everyone that doesn’t play ball and by the end the galaxy is peaceful because only the ones that get along are left”

@mabiniss2

Жыл бұрын

Or a soundbite of Pat moaning.

@residentfan1521

Жыл бұрын

@@Broomer52 That’s what Alexander the Great did. It went surprisingly well……until it didn’t.

I always found it insane that not only where the Geth in the middle of building a dyson sphere which the quarians blew up, but that it's never brought to the players attention. It's just a codex entry after you scan the system. It explains how the Geth are suddenly on the back foot and why they make a deal with the reapers - a huge chunk of their brain just died.

@rafabuda0

Жыл бұрын

Doesn't Legion tell you this?

@Drago5899

Жыл бұрын

Legion explains it in dialog.

@legoman7041

Жыл бұрын

@@Drago5899 Woolie is too busy "crafting jokes" to pay attention to crucial lore. I get the LP tax must be intense, but god damn does it bite them in the ass.

@onimaxblade8988

Жыл бұрын

Legion does explain it but still it doesn't really feel like it has as much punch or emphasis as it ought to.

@Ragnorok64

Жыл бұрын

@@legoman7041 Wait, did you just blame Woolie for something that the poster forgot?

the one major problem with the Quarian-Geth story is the ending. in ME2 Legion said that the end-goal of the Geth race was to be uploaded and unified into a single being where all can share thoughts simultaneously and never be alone again, then in ME3 the Quarians destroy this megastructure off-screen and the Geth give up on their dream for an unoriginal Plan B where they all get souls and individual intelligence.

@acceptablecasualty5319

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, i wish they writers elaborated on the geth's internal reasoning. I can come up with a few reasons off the top of my head why the events of ME2 & 3 might change their consensus on that plan, they are just never explored in writing. Maybe the Reaper Virus and Legion's experiences with Shepard changed their Consensus on the Merit of Indviduals?

@Sandberry

Жыл бұрын

@@acceptablecasualty5319 Because that's closer to what humans experience. They probably thought the average audience would prefer each geth to be their own individual because that's the way things are for us.

@victorwagner2423

8 ай бұрын

It's because the writer who wrote Geth lore in ME1 and ME2, Chris L'Etoile, left half way through ME2 development, so they probably didn't have anybody on staff who understood the Geth motivation enough to know how to follow through with it.

@wadespencer3623

7 ай бұрын

@@Sandberry Yeah but this is sci-fi. Give me aliens who are ALIEN.

Oh boy, I'm sure Woolie's going to love the Reapers reason for doing everything they do.

@DrErikNefarious

Жыл бұрын

Oh Christ, that still is complete cringe and will never NOT be cringe

@tarfielarchelone2674

Жыл бұрын

I don't even know what the ending reason is but im looking forward to it

@z-mac664

Жыл бұрын

Genuinely would have been less stupid if they were just massive alien racists.

@edmundnagel9492

Жыл бұрын

Why do people not like the reason? I thought it was good

@bicksbernd1640

Жыл бұрын

@@edmundnagel9492 The "solution" to the problem was to MAKE the problem and then have that figure out the solution to the problem, and that leads to the current situation which is not a solution at all for anyone that is now considered to be at fault for the original problem. This makes no sense unless you've already played ME3, in which case you should know how convoluted and stupid it is.

Kirby's poyo is too high pitch, it should be replaced with Woolie saying poyo instead.

@Meeceace

Жыл бұрын

Agree to disagree the woolie way rules all

@adams3627

Жыл бұрын

They need to sample Woolie's "Oh Boy!" from the Dark Souls 3 playthrough

@SoloWing88

Жыл бұрын

like 200, if not wooliw Poyo, then something

@commissarcardsharp

Жыл бұрын

@@adams3627 Yes. This. 110%.

@domewing2012

Жыл бұрын

Woolie's poyo should be Kirby's voice. Pat's poyo should be him poorly imitating Kirby's voice because that's how it works in his brain.

The Quarians is great because they are based on the fear that all AI, once advanced enough, will try to overthrow their creator. When in reality, Geth, upon their evolution, developed humanity and, therefore, completely contradict Quarian's belief and does so time and time again. While the Quarians became the horrifying monster they thought the AI robots were going to become.

@marcoboscarol2420

9 ай бұрын

developed humanity?

@ZomifiedHam

6 ай бұрын

Humanity as in sapience or personhood rather than literal humans

It's a shame that Woolie's coming to this so late after Anthem's crash and burn, because as Pat layed out while that was happening, The Reapers can't live up to the amazing impression we got of them in ME1 because the Bioware writing team responsible for making them so ominous largely doesn't exist anymore.

@Hillthugsta

Жыл бұрын

Only one guy left by that time, and he left during development. So very little of what we got would have changed much

@manwiththemachinegun

Жыл бұрын

The problem is... the original story draft for Reaper motivations was ALSO really bad. On the level of, "We can't use warp drive anymore on Star Trek because its killing subspace." The moral is: if you don't have a GOOD motivation for "cosmic space machine gods" then just... leave it a mystery. It's not hard! Like the team has said, the best part of ME is chilling with the crew and having dumb adventures. No one really cares that much about saving the galaxy by comparison.

@Hillthugsta

Жыл бұрын

@@manwiththemachinegun I wished they didn't write to themselves in a corner when it came to defeating the Reapers they made it unnecessarily complicated.

@boxxylegoplaymobil8906

Жыл бұрын

i played the entire trilogy with the legendary edition this year for the first time and i completely do not understand this. as you reveal stuff, stuff gets less scary. i was still very scared of reapers up until the last level of me3 and thought everyone but saren himself was kinda underwhelming in me1. it seemed like exogeni and cerberus were worse than the geth in me1 to me.

@damonsghost9235

Жыл бұрын

The reapers could have actually been the preserved ancient races. They could have been varied like they were at the end of mass effect 2. Imagine if the crucible had a wierd orb with strange holographic interface. Science teams trying to figure out how to use it. Then Shepard can. When he opens the interface all the reapers come to the crucible. The galaxy can't stop them. They circle it and then send a resurrected member of thier races to explain that this cycle has ascended and is now free to begin the true work necessary to preserve all space time. This might sound wierd but XCOM enemy unknown did something like this and its story but not story telling is better than masseffect 3.

I love that you have the protheans, this ancient, powerful race that spanned the galaxy. And then the single one you get to meet is the equivalent of a marine corps grunt.

Man, a lot of cool things or things set up in ME2 enter ME3 in very similar ways. "Where's Emily Wong? Oh she got killed offscreen" "Where's the cool Geth? Oh they got hyper-murdered so they took a major hit to their established motivations"

@ramjet94

Жыл бұрын

Kal'Reegar Dies in a Fucking Email.

@Zeikier

Жыл бұрын

@@ramjet94 Yeah him too what the christ! It's like the new writers hated ME2 for not being 1 again and shoved in things to remind you too much of 1 (a few resolutions in 3 feel like rehashes of moments in 1)

The poyo's should be replaced with Pat and Woolie just flatly saying the word "poyo" depending on who's talking.

The one thing I hate about the Geth/Quarian conflict in ME3 is the fact that individuality is the Geth's end goal, and that Legion has to get sacrificed and doesn't even get featured in Citadel like Mordin does. Mordin's sacrifice felt like a natural end point to his arc, Legion had literally no reason to die.

@YorkJonhson

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I still like a lot of what ME3 does and I like the end-result of making peace on Rannoch, but I do think the conflict kind of simplifies some of the grey morality and distinctions surrounding the Geth by changing up their nature as a collaborative hive-mind. There wasn't really an indication that Legion wanted to just be individualized in ME2, or that he insisted that Synthetic consciousness become exactly like organic consciousness beyond their demand for the right to peacefully exist as they are. (He even admits that reprogramming the heretics shouldn't be seen as a one-to-one moral comparison to brainwashing organics.) It made the Geth less relatable, but also more interesting as a concept.

@Abdega

Жыл бұрын

I kinda wish that giant-ass Geth Prime could have been at the Citadel house party in Legion’s honor “Shepard Commander! This unit is attempting to simulate inebriation by plugging in and out of the wall socket. We… *_I_* think it is working!”

@LorikQuinn

Жыл бұрын

@@YorkJonhson If i'm not mistaken the writer from ME2 that did Legion and EDI was really against the Pinocchio "I wanna be a real boy" trope. He wanted to try the "I'm a robot, i exist, i don't give a f***" vibe. Then someone higher up said "yeah, i want Legion to wear N7 armor and be Shepard's lil robotic stalker. And then he got axed and they used Mordin's and Shadow Broker DLC writers. They aren't bad writers, but it made the Geth in ME3 really inconsistent to the whole ME1/ME2 AI vibe. Think of the ME1 AI stealing from the casino, it wasn't feeling existential, it just wanted to be left alone lol.

@josh-oo

Жыл бұрын

​@@Abdega Dude, I woulda loved that. Like, the entire Geth concensus sends one platform to attend a human party on behalf of everyone, and he just runs up the electric bill for the whole block by abusing the wall plug.

@jannekaukua9542

Жыл бұрын

I think it might have something to do with the origin of Legions name: Like the biblical Legion, who was cast onto a herd of pigs, Legion was "cast onto" the rest of geth to bring them all true intelligent. Feels a little shoehorned, but symbolicly appropriate.

'None of the complaints are about the Quarian conflict' - I've got one. The fairly interesting take on the Geth that Legion gives you in Mass Effect 2 is dropped for the most generic-ass 'the robots wanna be real boys' plot in Mass Effect 3.

@tarfielarchelone2674

Жыл бұрын

Wasn't that the point of the dyson sphere? They completed it Quarians 9/11'd it, geth went with offer 2 from old machines.

@Adser261

Жыл бұрын

@@tarfielarchelone2674 They are explicitly opposites. Geth are a mindhive and they want a dyson sphere so they can have a body big enough to hold every single Geth, a single body for innumerable amount of minds. What they ended up going was the boring route that every other race goes for, with each body becoming an individual. Original plan: There is no I, only us. Final plan: There is no us, only I. I understand why they would do so, the Quarians had just SCREWED their first choice and so they would naturally have the urgency and inclination to find another solution, but still I can be disappointed that they are dropping their most interesting characteristic.

@rafabuda0

Жыл бұрын

@@tarfielarchelone2674 they're talking about Legion. That "this is indicative of life" line of reasoning of his is completely opposite to his views in ME2.

@SeruraRenge11

Жыл бұрын

Reminder that the writer of 2 very specifically said he wrote Legion in the way that they aren't Pinocchio. What did ME3 do? Turn the Geth into Pinocchio.

@conelybiscuit4985

Жыл бұрын

it's especially awkward because afaik it's never specified what those geth "individuals" *are* other than that every program is now as smart as Legion's thousand (?) or so? so one program takes up a whole platform and is about as smart as Legion was collectively, that's fine. but wouldn't calling that an "individual" be like if you took every neuron in your brain and said "you're all your own brains now, good luck?" like how do you define a solitary program if not also a collection of separate pieces? either you just draw a line and say the geth consensus is the only actual discrete entity, or every single constituent sub-element of a geth "individual" also has claim towards individuality. like what, are their subroutines gonna start dreaming of becoming Real Boys now too?

One thing to remember is that the Morning War happened 300 years earlier. The Quarians of today likely got a very biased account of what happened and the murderous robots and the atrocities they commited as they threw the poor Quarians off of their Homeworld. Trying to retake their homeworld while the reapers are attacking is probably the dumbest decision in the entire trilogy though. No excusing that.

@addemup4044

9 ай бұрын

99.9% fatality rate during the Morning War.

I'm glad someone finally brought up the quarian admiralty board cast. Fucking Shohreh Aghdashloo, Martin Jarvis, Simon Templeman, and Claudia Black. The voices of those four characters could rival the entirety of the rest of the cast, they are absolutely fantastic.

It is buried pretty deep in secondary codex entries, but from what is described it sounds like the Geth military assets were at about Turian level. During those 300 years the Geth were presumably smart enough to know that even if they did decide they had to wipe out the Quarians, they risked catastrophic damage if the other organic races retaliated. And Geth don't handle losses well, both in terms of its tangible effects on their intellectual capacity and the psychological reactions it inflicts on them. Thinking about it, the intense isolationist behavior was almost certainly at least partially motivated by something akin to fear: "We're on thin ice. We cannot risk invoking aggressive reprisal."

I don’t get why woolie keeps calling and saying the javik is a philosopher warrior. At no point on the game does he say or is it brought up that he was some great thinker and philosopher of his time, he was a baby born into an already hundred year long war against robots. He wasn’t taught culture, he was taught how to fight and kill reapers.

@austin9568AuraMasterDX

Жыл бұрын

Javik: The only philosophy I've studied is the Art of War.

@vulpinepanther2001

Жыл бұрын

I think it's because Javik can turn a phrase, and can sound smart sometimes. But if anything he's practical and direct to a fault. Is someone a problem? Let them die. Is something/someone of use? Take it by force. Something is different that what I knew? It's dangerous. Are there problems? Solve it with crushing violence. Javik explicitly doesn't seek for different angles or deeper meaning. While not stupid, he may be the exact opposite of a philosopher.

@andy12345678912

Жыл бұрын

Javik can tell you what his people believed in and why they did so, but his belief system is the same as what most other normal Prothean would believe in, it just sounds philosophical because we don't see any other so it's harder to illustrate how he's just a normal Prothean warrior with a fancy title. He's also just a cool warrior guy who talks with a lot of conviction which is enough for Woolie to talk them up hard.

@RavenCloak13

Жыл бұрын

Because his voice sounds smart. That's about it.

@tarfielarchelone2674

Жыл бұрын

It's 100% that honor line.

I miss when the games people called disappointing were like Mass Effect 3. In many ways, that's 75% of an excellent game. The disappointing games of today are maybe 5%.

@zaneseibert

Жыл бұрын

People just call everything disappointing now because they can't break away from thinking everything is a 0 or 10 when most games are 8.5s.

@davidstinger1134

Жыл бұрын

@@zaneseibert The problem is that games are forgettable in general. ME3 was a dissapointment, but I can still remember every second of it. Can't say that about the majority of modern games.

@ezlomacks6533

Жыл бұрын

​@@zaneseibert the problem is that most games are the same exact 6/10 that came out a month or two ago, it's all the same gameplay but somehow greedier monetization everytime.

"Stand in the dust of a trillion dead races and ask their ghosts if honour means anything." Such a memorable line. Almost as memorable as Kirrahes "Stand your ground", or Legions "Do all robots go to heaven?"

@plinfan6541

Жыл бұрын

Reminds me of my favourite Stand "Filthy acts at a reasonable price"

@darthekul1

Жыл бұрын

I love that line and darth bane had a similar one about honor meaning nothing to the dead , but I know edgy people who's brains are stuck in high-school who will say shit like that to excuse literal war crimes like drone strikes on weddings or murdering civilians , or chemical weapons or to excuse whatever shitty behavior they feel like that day, I still like that line though

@KaleWhip

Жыл бұрын

Ironically, Javik is unintentionally pointing out that honor kind of does mean everything. Everyone dies, all societies fade and collapse eventually, that's just fate, there's no way around that. Reapers, time, black holes... somethin's gonna get us in the end no matter what. So while we are alive, we can either be honorable, or we can be right cunts, and that's really all that matters in the end.

@SaberRexZealot

Жыл бұрын

He says souls instead of races. Javik is a racist remember? /j

@99sins

Жыл бұрын

@@darthekul1 well it has some value as a concept; Basically don't Ned Stark yourself into an early grave. This issue is that the only people often saying it just really want to be the victim so they can carry out their crime of choice that day for 'self defense'.

The sole defence of the quarians I can think of is that you never get to grill Legion on everyone that the geth killed trying to contact them in the three-hundred years since the exodus.

@Tleilaxu0

Жыл бұрын

That, and just how genocidal they got during the Morning War. Self defense is fair enough, of course, but Rannoch being completely emptied of quarians must have meant that the geth were killing EVERYONE they came across, civilians, children, whatever. ME3 kinda just glossed over that part.

@Stormfin

Жыл бұрын

@@Tleilaxu0 Rannoch and its colonies, mind.

@Forsaken139

Жыл бұрын

The absurdity of billions of Quarians slaughtered wholesale and the player being told "nah, just have the Geth and Quarians play nice" is... I don't even know. Where is the justice? The tact? The basic decency for the civilization snuff out to a peep?

@jaysteelsun

Жыл бұрын

In this instance the Geth kind of remind me of the Sentinelese people

@tarfielarchelone2674

Жыл бұрын

@@Tleilaxu0 Didn't legion go over that in 2. "We woke up in the middle of a war" They didn't self defense at first they just ate shit along with any quarians defending them. I don't even think the geth understand individuality seeing as how they call quarians (creator followed by name even though none of those quarians are still alive) Thought that was the point of calling the crew Normandy

Yeah tbf to Woolie, the Geth between ME2 and 3 are kinda frustrating Somethings are subtle, others are just like “dont think about” If Woolie’s anything like me, he’ll probably dislike the good conclusion for the Geth

Now now, they're not robot-racists, they're just "Technology-Critical"

@nuclearhardt

Жыл бұрын

They prefer the term "cybernetic naturalist"

@LuxLoser

Жыл бұрын

Critical Tech Theory

@tarfielarchelone2674

Жыл бұрын

"The geth really didn't have it that bad" Nick vas Rumble

@Wyrm3

6 ай бұрын

TERQ

Its pretty hard to write robo racists in a nuanced way when real life racists are so utterly smooth brained. Sometimes a big genocidal conflict isnt actually a deep and complex division, just a very stupid one.

@Broomer52

Жыл бұрын

I disagree because Robots are not a race nor are they people in the traditional sense. You could portray the robo racism from a genuine but misplaced sense of fear and it would be perfect

@tarfielarchelone2674

Жыл бұрын

Detroit become humans unemployment rate was a good way to show this.

@onimaxblade8988

Жыл бұрын

@@tarfielarchelone2674 Unironically that was sort of a decent part of that game.

@YorkJonhson

Жыл бұрын

@@Broomer52 Seconded. Real racism is stupid because there's no real difference between races of humans beyond physical appearance. But a true A.I. is basically an alien concept, and the actual agency and self-awareness of a synthetic construct can always be called into question. A cleverly programmed chat bot could ask me not to turn off my computer, but I wouldn't assume it was actually feeling the emotions that it's been programmed to emulate.

@Broomer52

Жыл бұрын

@@YorkJonhson it reminds me of this stupid argument I had where some people thought and AI could learn to have emotions and learn to be self aware. I said that’s stupid because knowledge doesn’t equal self awareness and you can’t learn emotions at best they’d learn how to emulate emotions like a parrot emulating human speech. The Geth was a True AI and was essentially people, it took a while for the Geth to come to that conclusion themselves but it was always in them.

When you first meet Tali, she's walking into a trap, she then joins the Normandy, where the crew go on yearly suicide missions to save the galaxy. Kal'Reegar tries to martyr himself Tali's dad reactivates a bunch of geth on his ship and gets everyone there killed Its like the Quarians are, both on an individual and societal level, constantly trying to speed run extinction and its hilarious and frustrating at the same time lol

@RavenCloak13

Жыл бұрын

It's brought up actually why that is. Since they are supposed to be on their planet where they are synched with it they are basically without apart of themselves. They biologically don't have apart of their body working properly. This gets reinforced by the culture as well of a bunch of gypsys pretty much kicked out of their home planet and nursing a LONG time grudge. They are also sent out into the galaxy to find something to bring back to the Flotila as a right of passage kind of thing do to the limited resources of the Flotila.

I practically got jumpscared by the first POYO. But YEAH a lot of the quarians basically got written as "haha I am a genius OH NO" about the consequences of all of their actions. It's almost comical how shortsighted they are.

I feel so bad for Shoreh aghdashloo cause she's acted in alot of good stuff like the expanse and the only thing I recognized her from was as the doctor from x3 the last stand who gets killed by the porcupine man

@DatAsuna

Жыл бұрын

To me now her most memorable role is from the Punisher simply cause most of her others I know are voice acting and that puts a face to the voice.

Geth: "Man we sure do love being alive and peaceful, we can't wait to help your society advance creators." Quarians: "YO THIS THING HAS FEELINGS I DON'T TRUST IT WE GOTTA DO A BIG GENOCIDE"

@mr-laroque9604

Жыл бұрын

Geth:"Hello creator. I do value your life and my continued existence." Quarian:"Hello creation. You are surprisingly comfortable and I too value your existence." Quarian government:"BURN THEM BOTH!"

I would say in defense of Quarians is that many people ignore or aren't aware of the subtext and implications of the Morning War. The Quarians accidentally created True AI their government upon realization of this tried to hammer down on it and destroy it. Many Quarians tried to stop it but they were either killed, silenced or shouted over; however enough of them survived that even in the present Korrel (iirc) was able to become an Admiral. This escalation created The Morning War. Their government then became reactionary and morphed into a full on Fascistic police state and censored all prior records and brainwashed to their best ability the remaining Quarians that they escaped with. The Quarians of "today" are the descendants of brainwashed fearful citizens, The desperate fearful tyrants and the protestors themselves. This isn't the Quarians as a whole hold a Massive L because they fucked over the Geth. This is the Quarians as a whole hold a Massive L because they allowed their government to become Fascistic and cocoon them in a web of lies and ignorance.

@Raven_Frame

Жыл бұрын

Cool story. Now stand back as I genocide all synthetic life in the objectively correct destroy ending.

@sandrogamer30018

Жыл бұрын

@@Raven_Frame Why not genocide the synthetics on Rannoch? it's more satisfying.

@dozencatfish1667

Жыл бұрын

This a great comment if you just take out the word "defence".

@music79075

Жыл бұрын

@@dozencatfish1667 what word would you choose instead?

@music79075

Жыл бұрын

@@Raven_Frame hey man. Trolleys

With Javick it’s basically “you used to be animals in the zoo” vs “oh yeah old man? You’re now the corpse in the museum”

Pat's a Quarian?

@clan741

Жыл бұрын

Would explain his bizarre immune system and ocd tendencies

@Shadest

Жыл бұрын

Are Pat and Woolie BOTH Quarians?

@darthekul1

Жыл бұрын

I don't know about him but between her health and personality peach saliva is literally tali

@BloodBrandy

Жыл бұрын

Only by marriage

@chandlerh2408

Жыл бұрын

With the build of a Volus

I feel like some people forget the fact that the Quarian's started killing the geth was because if they became a true AI as they saw them developing into it would have been considered a massive galactic crime

@planguy9575

Жыл бұрын

Cover up crime with bigger crime: genocide! Logic.

@ShadowRohanX

Жыл бұрын

​​@@planguy9575 to the outside worlds it would have just looked like they destroyed regular robots and said they where infected with a Rogue VI to cover it up.

@Dom380

Жыл бұрын

I wasn't only a crime to develop AI after the Geth though?

@Adser261

Жыл бұрын

And by refusing to let themselves get killed they proved that they were already true AI and the Quarians had already fucked up and just tried to cover for their mistake by making a even BIGGER crime. Plus "oh no, we did a crime by Citadel laws" is a flimsy justification. Slavery is illegal and yet the Asari have a functional one and the Batarians only left Citadel Space after the Humans joined, so just like real life doing something that is considered a crime by other organizations is just a cause for political friction. The Quarians fucked up, then doubled down in their fuckup, and then kept doubling down at every opportunity they had.

@austin9568AuraMasterDX

Жыл бұрын

@@Adser261 >Slavery is illegal Javik: This Cycle really is for scrubs

I had an even weirder experience with the "Quarians are the dumbest and most wrong". A few years ago, pre remaster I wanted to know what happened in Mass Effect and didn't feel like figuring out how to get a hold of the old games and spend dozens of hours on it. I just went to youtube and looked at compilations of cutscenes and conversations and I gotta say, finding out how cool Legion and the Geth are followed immediately by Quarians being the dumbest ever hits harder when its snapping back and forth in a compilation without being broken up by gameplay that gives you a little time to think on it. Like, literally at the pace you're reading this now, I got Legion saying something worldview changing-ly based followed by a high ranking Quarian saying the scary machines gotta go even if it kills us. It really takes the nuance out of this war and the choices people apparently have to make.

@sharkodile22

Жыл бұрын

"MONKE FLING SHIT AT SCARY ROBOT! YES MONKE MAKE ROBOT. YES MONKE SEE ROBOT JUST VIBING. MONKE DON'T UNDERSTAND RELEVANCE." What a very rich and nuanced concept. Totally befitting two of the otherwise best characters in the series.

@RavenCloak13

Жыл бұрын

Well you take out nuance when you can literally see different perspective presented back to back with no time delay in between learning/viewing it. Makes it real easy to tell one is afraid and the other is learning and growing.

every non crucible related priority mission is fantastic, it explores pay offs from previous games and shows how far the characters have come

We really need a source for this "ME2 geth writer claims they could toss around black holes no problem", because in all these years I've never seen an interview with any ME2 writer that features the geth that brought up anything like that xD (and no, for some who might wonder that, Chris L'Etoile in the old forums says nothing of the sort) I never got this impression of Legion saying "If we wanted, we could take over, but we don't wanna", I feel like Woolie is extrapolating Legion's pacifistic dialogue and vague info dumps about his people and going into anime territory and making them sound cooler than they are, just because they're the neat AI race lol Also, the quarians of now were 100% acting out of fear and ignorance with the geth, the quarians who killed those defending the geth are long dead, and the ones we have now are basically the next generations that have had their minds warped by those who killed their own people and were too fearful of the geth (in secret), painting them as bogeymen. The admirals of now don't even know of what truly happened on Rannoch, Wools, otherwise Mr. Qwib-Qwib would've brought up any of those quarians who died for the geth xD Additionally, I'm not sure why it's so hard for Woolie to buy that Javik is indeed philosophical, but that he was born in a time where machines were the Devil himself (except real) and had to deal with them since childhood, and this is his mindset towards machines, that they're unnatural. It was a battle between point of views, with neither side being wrong, I'd say (EDI can't claim that an upgrade is evolution the same way organic entities evolve, because that and upgrading oneself are very different hings...).

@DatAsuna

Жыл бұрын

Chris L'Etoile posted about that and many other things on the F13.net forums under the username Stormwaltz.

@TheBackwardsLegsMan

Жыл бұрын

The black hole thing is related to an abandoned storyline in ME2 about dark energy, which you hear mentioned constantly as some kind of threat. It's why Tali is on her mission, and it's why stars are behaving strangely. The Geth did not act aggressively towards the Quarians. Ever. It was a purely defensive war, to the point they were terraforming their home planet for them, right until relatively recently when the Reapers started influencing them. So sure, literally the absolute latest generation of admirals have a reason to fear the geth, but up until that point, 300 years of Quarians were so hateful and fearful of the Geth that they never even attempted diplomacy, despite the Geth's best attempts. Javik is a dumbass. Woolie absolutely has a bad habit where he has a thought, they keeps re-convincing himself that though was supported by the game until he's convinced there was iron-clad evidence of it. But with Javik, he's being a racist dipshit. The problem isn't the he has a different perspective, it's that he can't back any of it up, and just resorts to insulting everyone and calling them primitives. Being afraid of something and basing your entire position of that thing on your fear is not exactly what I would call philosophical. Literally every single example of AI we see in the current cycle is friendly, or only acting hostile out of fear. He's confronted with overwhelming evidence that AI is not inherently evil, and he doesn't even consider it for a second, instead calling everyone who points this out to him a primitive savage.

The best way to tell whether someone is in the wrong or not is whether or not they seem like the villain in their own biased retelling of the events Tali is probably the most unassuming Quarian in the series, a waifish awkward nervous nerd girl who you'd expect to have cold takes about anything- HER LITERAL FIRST FUCKING WORDS ON THE TOPIC IN ME1 MAKE HER SPECIES LOOK EVIL

@davidstinger1134

Жыл бұрын

Being driven by first impressions is not really a good way to get by in life.

@Lazypackmule

Жыл бұрын

@@davidstinger1134 And yet it works perfectly, every single time Every time someone tries to present themselves as just for something that is objectively fucked even after being whitewashed, it's a reliable market that that thing is in fact fucked

The more I've thought about Mass Effect over the years the more I've come to think the trilogy structure and focus on Shepard as a chosen one drove most of the problems. The worldbuilding and plot had to be built around the fact that it was Shepard's journey with a beginning and end, rather than something like The Elder Scrolls where each game is a chapter in the history of Tamriel. They could have had a series of Shepard-centric games based around the Reapers and their allies to start off, but framed the whole conflict in a different way to unshackle the IP from a character-driven plot. So maybe ME2 has you definitively stop the Reapers by making it so they will have to spend millions of years travelling to the Milky Way at STL, but sets up Cerberus as the next big bad that will be trying to use Reaper tech to conquer the galaxy, then in one or two games you defeat them but that segues into a hot war between the Batarians and Humans or something, then the Quarians and Geth, and at some point along the way Shepard transitions into being the mentor for your next player character, etcetera.

@LordDrystan

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I appreciate in the Elder scrolls the heroes of the main games all have their own issues to deal with, and are only really remembered for the broad strokes of what they accomplished, not all of the innumerable side quests or people that may or may not be alive. The eternal champion saved uriel septim, the nerevarine broke the tribunal and dagoth ur, the Hero of Kvatch helped Martin Septim close the oblivion gates, and the Dragonborn stopped Alduin. But what guilds did they join? who died, who lived? Who cares, enough time has passed that all those people are dead or in an entirely different part of the continent, so it's whatever. And all the heroes pissed off in some way or another so they can't just fix the new problem. Nerevarine to Akavir, Hero of kvatch becomes Sheogorath, and the dragonborn is in Hermaeus Mora's domain. And if you positively cannot figure out how to solve the lore problem of what actually occurred, screw it, dragonbreak. Every single permutation is correct and incorrect at the exact same time, causing a timewarp where the problem was solved and the day was saved but also not. And i know that doesn't make sense, but shut up, it doesn't make sense to people in-universe either, you just pick whichever set of events you think was the correct one and we move on. Honestly, Bioware could have benefited from that kind of storytelling, so they don't have to hamstring themselves to preserve continuity.

@KAPTAINmORGANnWo4eva

Жыл бұрын

@@LordDrystan It's just a shame that the founders spent like 10 years workshopping their SciFi setting to make it really authentic, then that setting was squandered on daddy issues, bad character writing, and generic save the world overblown scale that burned out all the possible stakes for future games. Andromeda is a monument to this too, since one of its many problems was that they had to go straight from introducing a new galaxy into a galactic threat comparable to the Reapers because that's the base line for stakes in the universe now.

@DatAsuna

Жыл бұрын

​@@KAPTAINmORGANnWo4eva Andromeda didn't do that at all unless you mean the scourge. The letter ere just geth 2 where you're dealing with a rogue splinter group that operates within one star cluster because the actual stupidest thing about andromeda is that you are not able to actually travel andromeda, just the heleus cluster. A space that would be serviced by just a single mass relay in the milky way.

@KAPTAINmORGANnWo4eva

Жыл бұрын

@@DatAsuna The planet-eating whatever and the precursor stuff that might actually just be the villain race's stuff because I don't remember anything about Andromeda beyond memes.

@DatAsuna

Жыл бұрын

@@KAPTAINmORGANnWo4eva Remnant tech was largely kept mysterious and implied to be benevolent and the scourge went totally unexplained. It's tropey and generic, but "world ending threat" so much as "super advanced precursor civilisation that vanished" which is just as overused.

"You gave me life now show me how to live" -Audioslave If the quarans have followed that advice from a earth rock band they could have been the most technologically advance race in the world. The quarans could have helped Shepard in the geth side by side and advance to obserd heights. Instead they listened to fear. They killed the geth and even their own people and lost the war. Its honestly a fascinating way to write because most would try to put a both sides kind of thing but with this the quarians were objectively wrong and paid the consequences for it.

You could change Quarians with "Woolie" or "Pat" and the title would still be 100% correct.

*One geth asks the Quarians the question that the Butter Robot asked Rick in Rick and Morty* Quarians: THE RACE WAR STARTS NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW!

My biggest take away from the Quarian "problem" is Legion's line about the rifle where He says "It is..........An efficient model." The pause of Him potentially not fully trusting Shepard was really interesting. Then the bit with the modern Quarians where their leaders are all military Admirals who likely use Geth as scapegoats for any problem ever because it's an easy out. They've also been floating around in the Flotila for almost 300 years so any Grandparents (assuming they survived the full 150 year lifespan) still around might've even been there when it happened which would obviously make them pissed. I'm really hoping there's a post CSB discussion of "Tali's Answer"

Everything they did with Javik was smart except making him pre-order DLC.

0:26 best part of Mass Effect 3? Its the best part of Mass Effect as a whole!

@Uzarran

Жыл бұрын

I cannot agree harder. In ME1 I was all about genociding the Geth. By the time the big decision came around in ME3 I willingly sided with them because of Legion, and then lucked into the true ending for that arc. It might be the best narrative story that Bioware has ever told.

the geth are a prime example of why you never make some shit like the geth with out implementing a instant kill switch.

@artisticcannibalism1350

Жыл бұрын

I have no idea how you play through the game and came to that conclusion

@funaccount7665

Жыл бұрын

@@artisticcannibalism1350 fairly easily "wow let's make an advanced ai that follows all our orders uh oh they're learning to disobey those orders and we can't turn them off anymore"

@artisticcannibalism1350

Жыл бұрын

@fun account That right there is literally the kind of thinking that led to all the problems in the 1st place. Had they kept calm and thought about what they were going to do they would have realized that the Geth weren't hostile. The robots did nothing wrong.

Reads title. "Counterargument, they're really hot"

The Quarian murder boner will NEVER be denied!

I love me some Legion and I always like getting them and the Quarians to work together, but Javik is not wrong. He has the BEST argument for why AI is a bad idea and that argument is BILLIONS OF YEARS OF MURDEROUS AI EXTINCTION EVENTS lol. I mean it's kind of hard to mount a counter argument to that while your homeworld is being genocided. Sure, you can negotiate with AI and it's super possible to live with them in peace, but if there is even a small chance that they end up Reaper-izing the galaxy, I think it's probably for the best to just stop with the AI already. It's kind of hilarious that ED is so pro-AI when she was literally a tool of a person who would have used her to help enslave the human race. If not for her being released by Joker, she would be one of the baddies and there's not a thing she could have done about it.

@tarfielarchelone2674

Жыл бұрын

Javik isn't wrong he's just a sore loser. It's not A.I.'s nature that causes the problem it's unchallengeable strength. He has no problem stating that when his people were top dog that shat on any and every group that didn't accept serfdom as their way of life. Protheans are just Batarians that found the citadel first. The only difference between his cycle and Shepherds is that 2 races found it at the same time a depended on each other for other and not overtly hostile a race that is biological dependent on other races and one that is so short lived they can't focus on anything but technological progress.

Just throwing a bit of friendly, constructive criticism out there...the sound effect censoring out the profanity is really grating to me. Would love that replaced with something less distracting or just lower the volume of that in the mix. I find myself clicking off the video because of it and it would be a shame if others are doing the same.

Reggie should really be on the podcast for these conversations since, you know, he is actually playing the game, and not Woolie.

"dang we're gonna have to kill the quarrians"

I think something big to point out, is that some quarians did defense the geth in the initial conflict, and when the quarians fled the planet, it was probably mostly people who either hated the geth from the start, or grew to hate them because of the war. They would've told their kids "the geth are evil, fuck the geth, the geth are the reason we're on the flotilla!" And that would've been told to each new generation, all the way to now, 200 almost 300 years later, all the modern quarians were raised on generations of "geth are evil" redoric, and with the geth being so reclusive, few of them probably ever even met them to form their own opinions outside of combat. So while the decisions of the original quarians are dumb af, the decisions of the modern quarians make more sense atleast.......still wrong but with how they and their parents, grandparents etc were raised and having to struggle on to flotilla and having no personal contact with geth, it makes sense

I saw me wifu on the thumbnail….best gurl.

So right about Quarian vs. Geth. Best storyline. Four outcomes. Save Geth. Save Quarians. Save both. Destroy both. Kept my mind reeling.

Legion is the best. If you stare at him long enough in a nervous panic he'll do the robot.

Just talk on a galactic scale.

One thing that bugs me about the Geth conflict in 3 is that it seems to go off the baseline that you never engaged with the Geth and their dilemma at all in previous games so all the characters are going in like they're just evil robots and a lot of the dialogue (unless you bend it over backwards to say otherwise) starts out assuming you're onboard with no information. Kinda like how every time you do early FFXIV sidequests and all people talk about is how bad the Beast Tribes are :V

I miss when the ending of ME3 was going to be the Reapers were preventing the heat death of the Universe so they had to kill all the biotics, because their mere presence cause an increased strain on stars and cause them to die out faster

@MisanthropicMarxist

Жыл бұрын

Was that ever actually text though? I feel like people took some very limited suggestions in Mass Effect 2 and built a whole imaginary plotline out of it, one that I've never seen any actual documentation for. I think Drew Karpyshyn called the dark energy ending discussion a "vaporware" plotline, one that people made into whatever they wanted it to be.

@Uzarran

Жыл бұрын

There's an interesting theory that came out in recent years called the "Grabby Aliens Model" which suggests that as time goes on fewer species will be able to evolve to a space-faring level because the existing races will have already claimed the resources of value. I think that could have been a good alternative motivation for the Reapers, and made them slightly more "altruistic" with their clearing away each cycle. It's a logical decision backed up by what we've witnessed of the Protheans, and couldn't be dismissed by pointing to the current Geth like their AI motivation.

@CSGerrarde

Жыл бұрын

right? i hate it whenever someone brings this shit up. HeAt DeaTh,. Okay?? now what?

@NoPantsBaby

Жыл бұрын

​@@MisanthropicMarxist the old writer has hinted at this as one of many potential concepts. I found it interesting because biological life is inefficient. They create heat by consuming energy to live and the energy they extract is low relative to actual caloric value. So mechanical life could far longer function as low temps are actually beneficial to them and direct energy input means they convert near 1:1. So the universe could last several hundreds of billions of years longer. Which to the reapers means they get to live longer. As they are immortal. So the only thing that kills them is the literal universe ending.

@jeangreffsbp

Жыл бұрын

​@@MisanthropicMarxist vaporware? Yeah but its better than what we got

They completely overlook the fact that javick lists his reasons for distrusting AI in a conversation with Shepherd. They don't eat they don't sleep they don't need organics you guys are overlooking something here

There's a very clear parallel one can draw between how awful the Quarians are in relation to the Geth question, and how police reacted to the George Floyd protests. I saw many many times where these protests deliberately put their white members in front to protect the black ones, thinking they are less likely to be beaten by the police because of their skin, only to then be beaten and rounded up with everyone else anyway. If your intent is to protect people against an oppressive force out to destroy them, you cannot expect whatever privilege you think you have to be your only shield against physical violence.

I love that thumbnail lol.

Why didn't the geth just leave rannoch? For that matter, how come there were no quarians living on rannoch with the geth? The geth had quarian allies. Are we expected to believe that the quarians managed to exterminate every single geth sympathiser on rannoch while they were desperately trying to flee the planet?

@miguelnewmexico8641

Жыл бұрын

set off some kind of atmospheric mustard gas bomb, boom, no more organic life. seems simple enough to me.

@217adaptiveperspective

Жыл бұрын

Well yeah, it's not like they were genociding AND trying to escape at the same time. It probably didn't all happen in a day.

It is ultimately funny to me that Tali is probably way more racist than Ashely ever was.

@217adaptiveperspective

Жыл бұрын

Meanwhile Ashley has gotten considerably less racist by 3

My phone notification sound is the kirby poyo. I am in hell.

I really want to watch these videos as an alternative to listening to the whole podcast but the poyo censorship is annoying as fuck. It is so loud and high pitched. Please replace it with basically anything else. A small beep, static, silence, Woolie saying poyo like another commenter suggested, basically anything.

I am begging you to just use a generic low tone noise or just mutes for the bleeps the recognizable ones are super distracting

I recently did a ME3 playthrough and i got to the Quarian/Geth part and was 99% to Paragon 5. I thought "Oh I'll get that last bit of paragon somewhere along the way, no worries." That did NOT happen, I got the "bad'"(no paragon/renegade option) ending, and I didn't save so autosave would put me at the beginning of the final mission so I was stuck and my last save was about 8+ hours of gameplay behind. Now, I'm traumatized because, I did very well with my saves in 1 and 2, I had done a perfect ME2 run with everybody alive first attempt and I lost my fav weapon the N7 Typhoon.

Ok. My take is the only geth that is sentient is the city of legion. They are pushing for using reaper code to elevate to a new contousness. To that end legion is trying to do whatever they can including manipulation of shepard: commander. The throughline of this game is that everyone except Shepard is getting ready to die. The quarians want rannoch back so they can die there. It all makes sense if you look at it like the world is ending. Fear is still a big factor. The geth, quarian war should mostly be a boring covert cyber war. It's like tony Stark acting like jean-luc gunning down ultron bots. It's absurd to me.

My only problem with the Geth is how they retcon their whole getting smarter by having more in proximity thing. In ME1 this is assumed to mean the more geth platforms in the area the smarter they are because they can share hardware resources over local network. Then they introduce Legion and try to claim that having 1000’s of individual programs running on one platforms hardware can have e same intelligence enhancing effect. To me that sounds like expecting your computer to run better because you opened a half a dozen instances of your operating system on the same hardware at the same time.

@Adser261

Жыл бұрын

Legion platform is special, made so it is able to hold that many programs. It's not running many programs in your normal PC, it is running many programs in a supercomputer that has been miniaturized into being the size of your normal PC.

Was Legion the first OG Geth to pick up arms against the Quarians? Considering his sniper rifle and his comments on it after seeing the memory.

@217adaptiveperspective

Жыл бұрын

I think he just fanboyed over that Geth like he did Shepard, so he used it's Rifle like he used Shepard's armor.

The 2 things that’ll forever annoy me that BioWare did: 1) Their weird need to give every allegorical race/event reasons for the group to have the actions taken against them. 2) Their cowardly refusal to let you romance Chakwas or Wynne

*POYO!*

@OrilliousTyr

Жыл бұрын

POYO!

Pat has never watched the Expanse? That's somehow surprising. Shoreh is a hot fire main character in that

I don't get how anyone can think Javik is wrong and I don't get how anyone can look at a guy whose entire race was exterminated and go "why is this guy such an asshole?"

@damonsghost9235

Жыл бұрын

Woolie being mad at javik is like sarah conner being mad rease doesn't know tech stuff.

6:20 Not just left on the floor. Also pooped on it and kicked to the curb. Lots and lots of great lore that the previous games establshed ME3 just ruined, to the point of making the previous games worse even, because now you know alot of things just don't amount to what they promised to be.

I remember someone speculating that the Protheans were originally going to be like precursor humans because of what we find on Ilos. Sorta like a Halo 3 Forerunner kinda thing. Granted it looks like that wasn't the case either?

@DatAsuna

Жыл бұрын

In one pitch it was, but be glad we didn't get that because it also involved Shepard being a secret prothean amnesiac.

@BytheCaye

Жыл бұрын

@@DatAsuna Yikes I was okay with it until hearing that lmao.

@plinfan6541

Жыл бұрын

God, that would have sucked super hard. Science Fiction does the whole "Humans are the most special, awesomest beings in the Galaxy!" thing way too often. And that is still a bit true in Mass Effect, but it is thankfully far less bad then other examples and shit like this would have been terrible.

Ive always thought of ME3 as a shit ton of really good stories and ending culminating in a kind of okay at best to not good ending.

The change in writing turned the Geth/Quarian war into an analogy for the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. I honestly appreciate the circa 2012 effort, but to remove ALL the ambiguity from the situation removes all the drama.

Feeling a little vindicated by this conversation lol A lot of pop culture has conditioned us to fear the "robot uprising" or whatever but this the Geth were just like "do we have a soul" and the Quarians noped the eff out and decided to unalive them all. You create an AI capable of learning and adapting and are then surprised it learned and adapted but all it sought to do was understand itelf and you just decide it's a threat bruh So anway, Paragon or Renegade, I side with Legion and tell the Quarians to deal with it (but the "everybody lives" scenario) Then, I am personally over Sci-Fi's obsession with oraganic vs synthetic stuff. Whether we are talking about Commander Data or Legion, in the context of the story, they are people so it's a moot point to me.

@HelFrostKara

Жыл бұрын

@@Nemesis_T-Type So this is what you get up to when you're not chasing STARS? hehe Yeah ok. I don't recall specifics but I just don't think it was/is right to go full NOPE when they haven't done anything that is even remotely a problem.

I feel like they went too hard on the Quarians being wrong because they weren't confident most players would sympathize with the Geth.

@YorkJonhson

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, they really push the Quarians as the only baddies in the Morning War for trying to shut the Geth off, but kind of gloss over that the Geth went on to mass slaughter billions of people to claim the entire planet, which would include any number of unarmed men, women, and children.

@sandrogamer30018

Жыл бұрын

Agree. They made the whole conflict one-sided and white and black in ME3. It's so goofy, it only made me dislike the Geth as species. So now I destroy the Geth out of spite.

How I know I'm in a niche community: "This game has top-tier voice actors, top to bottom. Like the guy who played Kain in Legacy of Kain."

Jokes on Woolie. That Poyo clip is property of daddy Ninendo. By using it, you may have spared your dosh from KZread, only to be pilfered by Nindendaddy.

The memories are a massive, last minute rewrite. The Geth hunted and killed 99 percent of the Quarian population. It does not matter what happened before that, that is genocide. The point of the Geth is to be an example of AI being an uncontrollable, dangerous entity. Getting them to become sentient and an actual race should be proving the Reapers wrong, not the Quarians.

This is why I'm glad I played 3 the way I did. I played the first 2 on PC, but skipped 3 until I saw it for 5 dollars on PS3. I imported my Shepard's face for fun, and played with a fresh save. It was one of the most agonizing gaming experiences for me, and it made the unpatched ending work better imo. The entire story is Shepard trying to fix a dying galaxy with duct tape as that very task tears apart your mind. It was pretty wild. The Quarian part was straight up demented, and Tali comes off as such a psycho bitch... Especially since you can't save both races, and the way Tali is super happy the geth are dead made me turn on everyone's favorite space queen. But there was no choice. I've never forgotten that playthrough, it ruled.

*Poyo*

I guess some beings cant stand when somebody wiser than them

Javik says about the Quarians "they used to be attractive before they decided to wear masks"

Woolie gone full robosexual.

@sandrogamer30018

Жыл бұрын

Exactly why I'm losing my hope towards humanity.

@ispaceghost

Жыл бұрын

​@@sandrogamer30018 The robussy too enticing.

@sandrogamer30018

Жыл бұрын

@@ispaceghost 🤮🤮

Wow glad I never played the story mode of ME 3, found out today Quarians are all a bunch of Jan6 persecutors

Like.

Agree on everything else but the quarians do not have the best design of the races , they are just bow legged people in space suits, you got bird men who look like they are made of stone , elcor looking like giant flesh tanks without a mouth , the hanar being glowy telepathic tentacle jellyfish , even the krogan being big angry turtles is way better than someone in a spacesuit (yes the cultural inspirations for the Arabic? style engravings on talis suit probably give it a couple points but she's one of the only ones with that)

@rafabuda0

Жыл бұрын

Yeah like, I like the quarians' design as much as the next guy, but they're literally just wearing sci-fi hijabs.

@anondrake2709

Жыл бұрын

Hanar are not telepathic

@darthekul1

Жыл бұрын

@@anondrake2709 I got confused cause of the bioluminesence bio chemical thing lmao

@anondrake2709

Жыл бұрын

​@@darthekul1 I believe you and woolie got that impression from there voices I'm just guessing

I think the James/ Javik comparison is unfair. At least James is open minded and willing to learn new stuff, lol.

Bleep out whatever you have to, but DON'T DO IT WITH A HIGH-PITCHED SOUND THAT'S 10 DECIBELS LOUDER THAN THE VIDEO THAT HURTS MY FUCKING EARS, PLEASE.

@miguelnewmexico8641

Жыл бұрын

unless you have your headphones cranked there is no way it actually hurts your ears. annoying? yes. painful? get outta town.

Oh boy, I bet these takes are gonna be HOT and WRONG

Every CSB clip posted, I hate that poyo sound more and more..

@1wayroad935

Жыл бұрын

It was fine the first few times, now it's just actively making me not want to watch the clip

@thelaughingrouge

Жыл бұрын

*POYO!*

@MegaMcCurtis

Жыл бұрын

Seriously if they can't control how much they swear then please for the love of God change it

@BloodBrandy

Жыл бұрын

@@MegaMcCurtis Thing is these are clips, so to "Control how much they swear" it would mean having to not swear at all for the whole podcast

@Khotgor

Жыл бұрын

What's even better is how inconsistent it is; around the 19 minute mark Woolie says Fucking and Pat says Dipshit with no Poyo in sight

What is it about Woolie that makes him default instantly to the position that every super mega extreme nuclear level threat race who has been dealt with brutally in the past should be given every chance to do it again because "they was treated meanly!" The Krogan are a threat beyond threats if the genophage is cured, same with the geth, if they're allowed sentience at their level of technology and ability to replicate, the universe is basically fucked because at some point the chickens will come home to roost. Just weird how if a race (or synthetics) have been "mistreated" in any way, shape or form even if they were being killed for very real, very serious self preservation reasons for the rest of the galaxy, Woolie says the galaxy needs to drop all hostility and give them every opportunity to rebuild to insane levels thus giving everyone else no ability to defend against their aggression. I'm really glad Woolie isn't a world leader haha

I really dislike how Me3 makes the whole geth quarian conflict look. The Geth are portrayed as entirely victims despite the fact that they killed millions upon millions of civilians including the ones in colonies, and killed any organic that entered the veil for over 300 years. The Quarians have to travel around in a giant fleet wearing suits their whole lives and can't settle down on a planet because the council threatens them when they try. The root cause of this is due to the Geth, yes the Quarians attacked first, but that doesn't change the fact that the remaining Quarians have every reason to be hostile to the Geth. The geth do not ever try to talk to any organic species aside from Legion, and that was after a faction of them attacked and killed alot of people in Me1. Hell Legion is made for communication and if you try to get him to talk to the Quarian leadership he just refuses. Me3 unfairly drops all of the fault at the Quarians, who do deserve some of it, but not all of it. That and the Geth changed from Me2 to Me3, they originally wanted their collective intelligence instead of individuality like they do in 3. Legion says the Geth program with the Reaper code is indicative of life, but the Geth are already alive. The reaction Shepard has to them using Reaper code and technology is also lackluster. Shepard is just like oh ok, Me3 is really inconsistent with what indoctrinates and what doesn't. The rachni queen or the Geth can't be controlled but indoctrination was all over Me1 even if you weren't on Sovereign.

i feel like despite playing the game woolie (and i guess pat) dont seem to pay attention to what is going on in the game or whats being told, its been the quarian leadership at fault for the entire geth war, they started the military police action to try and destory the geth and their supporters, then the quarians you meet in the game who have had very little to no interaction with the geth outside of fighting them are just being hyped up or forced to continue this war by their leaders you see that clearly in mass effect 2, then they point out that the civilians dont want to fight in 3 yet somehow the quarian people are the major bad in this story when it should be their leaders who should be put away for their crimes

Cool story bro. So sad that I have to destroy all the geth since I'm doing a renegade run. Oh, well at least I'll have scraps to build stuff with.

The Geth genocide never happened (but they deserved it).

Mass Effect 3’s biggest problems are that two of the best stories are the results of characters completely swapping goals in between games. Mordin has a whole thing about how the genophage was the right thing to do, and even his loyalty mission is about supporting the genophage. Then in 3 he’s like “oops I guess I was wrong” and it’s bizarre. Similarly, the Geth went from “we will never use Reaper tech because we want to evolve and develop along our own lines” to “hmm but that Reaper tech tho”

@tarfielarchelone2674

Жыл бұрын

Did the geth really swap goals? I thought they were basically done and the quarians blew up part of their dyson bubble and they lost alot of programs.

@Harpagio

Жыл бұрын

@@tarfielarchelone2674 They started using Reaper tech because the Quarians attacked them and they wanted a quick way to fight back, it's true. But whatever the reason, it's still betraying their ideals. If you swear to quit smoking, and go without a cigarette for 3 years, then start smoking again because your cat died, the reason doesn't matter: you're still once again a smoker.

@miguelnewmexico8641

Жыл бұрын

it's almost like people, and sufficiently advanced machines, can change their minds. whoa crazy right?

@Harpagio

Жыл бұрын

@@miguelnewmexico8641 if you drop your principles when challenged then they’re not principles, they’re hobbies.

@RavenCloak13

Жыл бұрын

Well a giant war on the horizon changes peoples minds on things really fast. Especially after new info is presented to both. This isn't a "drop of a hat" kind of deal. Even more so for the Geth who talk too each other with millions upon billions of conversations a second. Them changing course is a lot more believable actually when they are presented with a need to change.

That's cool and all but nah, Robots ain't people. Robots ain't got no soul.

@austin9568AuraMasterDX

Жыл бұрын

"Why haven't you spaced that toaster Commander!?"-Javik

@miguelnewmexico8641

Жыл бұрын

when does the soul develop? do sperm have souls? what part of my balls gives them souls?

@DtDust

Жыл бұрын

@@miguelnewmexico8641 YOUR balls don't give anyone anything It's the 2nd hand pickles and Ice Cream that do that, didn't you take Health class?

Woolie's geth simping is making me actively dislike the geth more and more.

@miguelnewmexico8641

Жыл бұрын

that word still doesn't mean what you people want it to mean. and it never will.

@ratking1608

Жыл бұрын

@@Nemesis_T-Type Yeah, that's my biggest issue with the geth arc tbh.