Thank you, great video. As professional blacksmith and steel fabricator I want to say that you're spot on with "seasoning" ferric metals. The only thing that I would add, and I am awear you probably know this, is that heating the steel and applying oil also heats the oil, thinning it and allowing it to penetrate the grain structure more easily. Fantastic to watch someone who actually knows what they are taking about!!!

The spread is very important for consistent accuracy it will let you know exactly what the gun is going to do and it will allow you to be more accurate. Thank you for the videos we appreciate them!!!

I always love your videos Mike! Good information and you’re just a good man! Kind Thanks, Many Blessings and Good Shootin! DaveyJO in Pennsylvania

I really appreciate your work. I'm new to this and I've been wondering about a 2nd pucking. I'll be sure to watch your others videos too. Again, being new to this craft I watch every video I can find. Overall I've noticed that even though the black powder making processes may sometimes greatly differ, most seem happy with their final product. Even some who don't bother to corn their BP seem satisfied. I started out making BP because it's not sold in our area and I thought making my own would save money. haha I'm 76 and if I would have used all I've spent on equipment to simply order GOEX or whatever online, I'd probably have enough BP to last me to the end of my black powder shootin days. Great fun. Thanks

Consistency is everything for a competitive shooter. I’ll take the consistency. Thanks for the video and effort

I consider myself intermediate in this, a somewhat lost art. I am an avid chemist and usually prefer dabbling with BP substitutes, but toilet paper charcoal BP has captured my interest lately-its worth making. My recent learnings about pucking: bulk density of unpucked TP powder after blending/milling is 0.96 g/cc. After compression for at least 6hrs, density of the corned pucks has increased to about 1.20 g/cc, or 20%. That is significant, worth the trouble. Bulk density matters in a BP pistol or cartridge load, you can get more powder into a limited chamber. If i take the fines from once pucked powder, i can either puck them again or wet with binder solution and sieve unti desired grains, Ice dine both. Double pucking has only increased density from 1.20 to maybe 1.24 g/cc, at the velocity data is not better. In point if fact Im getting the best velocity from uncompressed powder in my rifle, 1600-1800 fps with 350gr at 85-90 gr charges. I fully realize these bulk densities for TP powder are very low for good BP, Goex is usually 1.65-1.70 g/cc. Yiu would think TP-powder therefore would be weaker; not so. It outperforms due to unusually high surface area of toilet paper char, and there is very little residue. Keep in mind regular BP has a pretty inefficient 51% conversion to solids after ignition, the more gas products, higher velocity-less residue. I puck once, save the corned power for my pistols. The puck fines are wetted and sieved into 2Fg/3Fg for my rifle. My binder solution is dissolving as many dextrin packing pellets into hot distilled water as i can, pouring this through a screen to fill a quart jar 2/3 full, then adding stale urine to top it off. I wet the powder 8 -10% for compression, this will leach out a bit and remove some oxidizer so i go with a 77/9/14 ratio. Leached oxidizer is recycled back into binder solution. I am not convinced glazing is worth the trouble, i prefer graphite coating of with a tiny trace (0.02%) of aluminum powder, 80 mesh. I am getting 30-35% fines by breaking down the pucks with a Corona mill fir sieving, which means only 60-65% high bulk density powder, that sucks. Going forward i will barely break up the pucks, then try cutting them with a salsa chopper (spring loaded blades) to get smaller particles but not crush them so much. Keep up the good work Gents and keep your powder dry!

I read that back in the day they used to save human urine that has been aged for 8 months and that's what they used when they made BP

@waynecook8115

5 ай бұрын

True. Also, it was considered that aging a drunken man's urine worked even better at increasing power. The more often drunk, the better the result. Using a sot's urine to increase explosive power may or may not work. We should test this and put up a video. Stay drunk to avoid hangovers :)

I made some out of rotten spongey oak and it works, seems to plume faster than the videos of other fast stuff on youtube. I think i milled it 30h on a lathe in a tube with bronze rectangular chunks. Its pressed with a 50 ton press the puck is about 3 inches by 1/2 inch and then is fractured and separated roughly to c, f and vf. Very fine powder seems to burn fastest, and I think that will work best for any black powder gun. You could proabbly blend it all to a fine powder after and not use fine granules at all. ANd have more reliable ignition and probably faster rounds. Need primers at the moment my tatp is fast and not flamable enough to catch the powder.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and shooting fun.

The Man is spot on about the cast iron we have a castings in my town and just ask the people who have been working there forever about casting irons and they will tell you cast irons will suck up oil any time it gets warm enough we are in south Texas it gets warm believe me it gets so warm we have to make extra heavy duty bore butter just to stay in the cylinder some time me so you can say horse hokey all you want to but it is so

Ok, let's examine this double compression. So the point of pucking/compressing is to change the shape of the grains. When you fuse the materials in the powder, and grind again, the grains become irregular. Irregular grains have more surface area, and they don't pack as tightly (think crushed stone in construction), so there is more air gap between grains. More surface area means more of the grain can burn at the same time. More.air gap means the fire can spread more rapidly among the grains. Those two features mean that more gas is produced, in a shorter time, and a smaller space. The result is increased pressure in the gun, and as a consequence, the velocity of the projectile increases. In order for double pucking to be valuable, it would need to improve the grain irregularity. The results of your experiment is interesting. I think it would be useful to get a microscope and take pictures to compare the grains. My own hypothesis, is that in order to get it compressed again, you would need to essentially dissolve the grains enough that they can re-fuse, so you would end up with, at best, exactly what you had the first time. Also note that you need the puck to dry before milling, so it breaks irregularly.

Great review and test, Mikey! Unless my eyes are deceiving me, it looks like there was slightly more muzzle flash with the 2F, double pucked. Possibly more burned on exit than in the barrel. Just a lame observation that may not mean a thing. Otherwise, a great comparison for all. Thanks!

Be care full whit lead poisoning from dust when useing leadball. When i was young i made 15mm brassshaft thet i cut in 15 mm long and cut/file down the edge. After a time useing this brassshaft they will be round like balls and no spark or poisoning! Just a tips🙌🏻

I'm not sure your 12 ton jack is exerting 24,000 psi. 12 tons (24,000 pounds) is the amount of weight the jack can lift. It would have to exert that force over 1 square inch in order to be providing 24,000 psi. If your piston is 0.565" in diameter, it will have an area of 1 square inch, and can exert 24,000 psi over that area. However, if you use a pucking die with a larger diameter, you are spreading that force out over a larger area, and will have a lower per unit area amount of force applied. For example, lets assume a 2" diameter pucking die. It will have a surface area of 3.14 inches. 24,000 pounds of force (not psi) divided by 3.14 square inches yields 7,643 pounds of force per square inch. If you want 24,000 pounds of force over a surface area of 1 square inch, you will need to use a pucking die with a diameter of 0.565 inches. You'd have to make about three times as many of the smaller pucks to process the same amount of powder in a 2" diameter puck. Of course I could be mistaken...

Just add a couple grains more when you load it and that would be easier than pucking twice.

@lamebeavertradingco.1642

11 ай бұрын

agreed

@kirkboswell2575

11 ай бұрын

Struttineagle - The usual difference is 10% to 20% (depending on technique). So, for a 100 grain load the equivalent DIY powder charge would be 110 to 120 grains. Pucking is definitely worthwhile when possible.

@Strutingeagle

11 ай бұрын

Pucking twice was what I said on that. Pucking is definitely worthwhile.@@kirkboswell2575

@codpug

6 ай бұрын

That can work unless you have a limited amount of space like a revolver

the trouble is that gun has the lock and pan the wrong side of the barrel LOL

Are you polishing your powder? I do puck twice and the powder seems hotter but I do not have a chronograph yet. I am sure you repuck your extra 4f or dust as I call it after sizing your powder. I only try for 3f powder.

I didn't read any thing under here but would like to ask .Have you tried any South Eastern Cedar wood for charcoal ??? I have hear that it makes BP really fast and not even have to ball mill if you had to use it... Thank you...

I have had luck taking the 4F left over from previous grinding, wetting and repucking.

IMO breaking up the pucks before allowing them to completely dry disturbs the density of the puck. You have not allowed the structure to form. Think about concrete. If I allow it to cure completely and use a hammer on it it is tough to break. If I allow it to partially set up then break it apart, it will be easier to hammer into dust even after it completely cures. JMO If you puck once allow it to dry in puck form. If you puck twice break the first pucks, re-puck and allow to dry completely in puck form.

@lamebeavertradingco.1642

11 ай бұрын

The structure of the broken pieces can still form or harden in that state, breaking them has nothing to do with changing the density , the density remains the same,24000 psi. In the past the pucks, have completely dried in puck form, with very little difference. IMO Concrete is not a apples to apples comparison. Completely cured pucks break up with more 4f as I stated in the video. Thank you for your comment

@hazcat640

11 ай бұрын

@@lamebeavertradingco.1642 "Completely cured pucks break up with more 4f as I stated in the video." Which goes toward proving my point that the structure (density) is different if you do not allow the puck to dry before grinding for powder.

@lamebeavertradingco.1642

11 ай бұрын

They do completely dry just in smaller pieces, @@hazcat640

@user-ql4jt8kl6s

6 ай бұрын

I get a lot more dust if I mill straight out of the pucking die but the density of the screened grains is unchanged.

The theory behind pucking twice is to increase the density of the powder. The density can be determined by weighing the powders measured by volume.

@BrillPappin

6 ай бұрын

Do you mean the internal density of the grains? Because I don't think that matters, and might actually be detrimental, because the powder burns from the outside, so more density of the grain material would slow down the burn of the grain.

@schinderiapraemeturus6239

5 ай бұрын

​@@BrillPappin monkeymedia8681 is correct, the only benefit to pucking is to increase bulk density. I personally feel it's pointless to puck powder for a rifle, where it matters is powder used in a BP pistol or cartridge with limited chamber space.

@BrillPappin

5 ай бұрын

@@schinderiapraemeturus6239 no, that's not the only reason. Think about the physics of what's happening after ignition. But I'm curious how density helps to increase velocity? (Edited to clarify)

A hard lead like linotype works and stays in the ball instead of sluffing off into the chems.

Very interesting , could this process also be done with a less powerful jack , for example 6 tonnes ?

@luisgarza2036

11 ай бұрын

Asuming they are using a 2.5 inch diameter "pucking mold" with a 12 ton jack, you can use a 6 ton jack but you need to use a "pucking mold" with half the area to achieve the same compression force.

@davefellhoelter1343

11 ай бұрын

YES! I started with a 2 or 3 ton jack and swallowed the Bait, Hook Line, and Sinker! FYI PLEASE? do NOT Under Estimate BP DANGER! I have lots! of Haz Mat OJT and training, still had one Hell of a Party on my welding table a time or two.

@user-ql4jt8kl6s

6 ай бұрын

Yes I use a 6 ton and a one inch die which gets within a few grains weight/volume of factory powder. It's awfully slow though only about 10 grams per puck.

So what are the ratio’s per component you are using? I’ve got to where I don’t even use hot water anymore cleaning mine. I think really hot water also removes at least some of the seasoning. I can’t tell any difference by just using cold or Luke warm water. I think it comes out just as clean As far as your results in fps, to me that’s not enough difference to justify the extra work. If it improved accuracy that would be a different story.

@lamebeavertradingco.1642

11 ай бұрын

Equal parts, if your are ref. the cleaning components. I agree, the extra work is not wort it. The accuracy is not the gun, it's me.

@craigcook1571

11 ай бұрын

@@lamebeavertradingco.1642 I was referring to the powder components. What I meant by the accuracy was that unless you were getting better groups with the double pucked it wouldn’t be worth the trouble to me to do the extra work. As for your shooting, you need to do like me, quit having birthdays so you don’t get any older 😬

@davefellhoelter1343

11 ай бұрын

Amen! I use a 5 gal bucket of bath water temp with Light Soap, as soap is alkali, and I think Kno3 potash becomes acidic raw with humidity, or once burnt? so I shoot for a neutral ph in my cleaning, but now maybe I'll dip a ph test strip in my dirty used water. THANKS!

@lamebeavertradingco.1642

11 ай бұрын

75-15-11@@craigcook1571

@Bucky1836

11 ай бұрын

​@@lamebeavertradingco.1642 im looking to make BP, for my charcoal wood , would Juniper work ok? Im in Texas Hill country so im drowning in Mesquite, Pecan, Juniper and Willow near Colorado river , dont know how well those would work. Any tips on wood?

Vevor ....sells a 20 ton ram with a hand pump for around 100$

Is this About pucking or barrel seasoning... stay on topic please.

Have you ever tried alder buckthorn charcoal?

@lamebeavertradingco.1642

11 ай бұрын

no I have not

Be honest about it. It's the first time I watch when your videos I believe and I don't understand what you mean. I make 440 round balls for my muzzleloader but I'll use any kind of lead I can find and I'll mail it important into aboard it and mold. So you seem to be going about it completely different from what I would understand how to do it. I've just wheel weights before you can mail it and pour it into a bullet mold. I molded 440s and 50 calibers and 54 calibers

@ricktaylor5744

5 ай бұрын

?

No such measurement of "grains by volume"! The term you are looking for is "X number of grains Volume Equivalent "!

Im confused. Why do you puck the bp? Im new to muzzleloading

@greywolfoutdoorshomestead9962

5 ай бұрын

And making my own bp

@KulKlas

5 ай бұрын

You need to increase the density!

@KulKlas

5 ай бұрын

Because its fun to understand and make stuff!

@greywolfoutdoorshomestead9962

5 ай бұрын

Now I've seen guys after they wet the powder with the alcohol, they roll it up in a ball and then grate it through a kitchen sive. Then the let it dry. Is that some what of the same thing?

@KulKlas

5 ай бұрын

@@greywolfoutdoorshomestead9962 it’s not the same thing (more similar )If you buy a black powder. And make black powder, with the kitchen sieve. And then you put 1 g of each stuff you going to see thet the bay stuff its mutch smaller pile of black powder then the homade made stuff! It’s because they(factory made) press the black powder to a density of 1.33g/cm3 (if I don’t remember wrong. Long time) and get some consistency. If you can make good black powder and fast burn whit the kitchen sive?. Of course you can. You can make it how complicated you want to. The most important is thet you start, lern, read etc. its wery fun lerning prosses! Sorry fore bad English!

75..15..11?? 101%??

Raise chronograph, lessen chance of hitting it

Look a squirrel

8:42 8:44

Wtf? You go from picking to cast iron? C’mon man!