The more I've listened to this series - specifically on the early fathers - the more I'm coming to think that our good pretrib brothers aren't just brainwashed w/ confirmation bias, but they are actively dishonest in order to sell a message of false comfort.

@squirreljones3595

Жыл бұрын

Post tribulation believers can't see the church/bride rapture The church/bride rapture is at judgment day. Jesus is Truth John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times Revelation 20 shows two Resurrections One is called the First Resurrection One is at the Last day Mystery Babylon added the church/bride to the thousand year reign of Jesus The Bible never promised the thousand year reign of Jesus to the church/bride Jesus is Truth Keep the Faith

@uncommonunity787

Жыл бұрын

Yep... I have also thought this, and now wonder if the falling away is going to mostly be pre-tribbers who are offended that they now have to endure to the end as Jesus commanded. The church in the West is currently unprepared to face the times ahead, because many of them will take the comfort of compromise and easy living, VS discomfort and endurance in faith... even to the point of martyrdom.

@nickstrickland4751

Жыл бұрын

@@squirreljones3595 That is absolutely ridiculous, the overcomers return with Yeshua very shortly after the rapture to rule and reign with him a thousand years. But I do agree about the fact that pretribbers will not be resurrected until after the Millenium and will face the great white throne judgement and will be judged according to their works according to the Torah, those who have overcome and are raised 1000 years prior have bypassed that Judgement.

@squirreljones3595

Жыл бұрын

@@nickstrickland4751 1 Corinthians 15 Paul says the Resurrection of the dead four times before verse 51 Behold I show you a mystery, we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. Daniel 12 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting Life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. God separates the saints that overcome the Mark of the beast in Revelation 6 9 and gives them white robes God reminds us that He separated them in Revelation 7 14 Revelation 15 2 Revelation 20 4 All doctrines here in Mystery Babylon expect me to believe that God separated them for no reason. The church/bride is in Heaven and in the dust of the earth until judgment day, the Last day, she doesn't need her Resurrected body for anything until New Jerusalem Revelation 4 & 19 Heaven is spirit world Revelation 21 New Heaven and new earth New Jerusalem Revelation 20 15 is the Last day And whosoever was not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the Lake of FIRE. Four Verses later God wipes away the bride's tears John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times. Jesus is Truth Dead in CHRIST rise First Dead in CHRIST means saints that overcome the Mark of the beast Revelation 20 4 seven descriptions Revelation 2 & 3 seven letters Jesus would love to show you, but you're going to have to believe Him about the Last day Jesus is Truth Only one day can be Last

@squirreljones3595

Жыл бұрын

@@uncommonunity787 Post trib believers could help pre trib believers, but they're too stubborn to look for the church rapture John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times. Jesus is Truth Judgment day is the Last day Revelation 20 shows two Resurrections One is called the First Resurrection One is at the Last day Daniel 12 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting Life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Not an anomaly - not a misunderstanding. A deceptive misrepresentation of the complete text. Thank you for teaching this, Joel.

@metapolitikgedanken612

Жыл бұрын

It's more the situation where people have lost discernment and wisdom completely. * They think their Phantasy-Rapture-Narrative is true. * Now they read anything remotely fitting that narrative in a way that supports their phantasy. Generally known as confirmation bias, also group think and Francis Bacons called it 'Idols of the Mind'.

The elect will be here, the sealed, in their foreheads will be here, The Spirit and the bride say, Come Lord Jesus, in the last chapter of Revelations. STILL HERE.

@squirreljones3595

Жыл бұрын

There is absolutely a separate Resurrection for the church/bride The church/bride rapture is at judgment day. Jesus is Truth John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times Jesus is Truth Only one day can be Last Jesus is Truth Keep the Faith

For the most part, I’ve always felt that it was about just not fully understanding scripture, not I’m starting to think otherwise. Some people are just downright hostile about this, and not even willing to discuss this issue.

Just great!😊Thanks, Joel!

I love fai great teaching

in revelation during the great trib the saints ask the lord how long will it be til we get our NEW BODIES! they havent been raptured yet!.. the gathering occurs at his coming!

The body is changed not separated from the soul when Jesus returns so therefore these documents discussing separation of soul and body cannot be about the rapture. Bodies are not left behind soulless at the rapture. Thank you Joel.

Good study. I seen pretrib debates and they don't have a leg to stand on. They tend to go toward name calling or appeal to the emotions of people in trying to follow the Pretrib view.

Was that Perry Stone calling you dummy? 😄 I've heard him say that before.

God bless you!!🙏🏽

Sounds like Isaiah 57:1, Any thoughts? This verse comforted me when discouraged in prayer for the persecuted. And should we be counted worthy to lay down our lives for the His Glory or for the brethren in the greater love Jesus has mentioned Another nail in the coffin of pretrib. Well done brother Joel and thank you FAI Hey are you going to go over the other verse in Isaiah 26:20? This verse is popular in supporting their view on PT. ❤🕊🥰📖💖🕯😇

excellent series!

Sadly many pretribbers will leave the church and join the dark side when they don't float away when the going gets tough. Prayers for you all.

@MyMusiKfaVorite

Жыл бұрын

I do not understand why people would join the dark side just because something did not happen as they were expected to? It is like saying early church members who thought imminent return of Jesus did not happen would suddenly all just fall away from their faith…. One’s faith should be in Jesus Christ alone, not when rapture or Jesus is coming back. If you join the dark side and receive the mark of the beast just because the rapture did not happen(although you studied bible prophecies all along) , you were never saved in the first place…..

@dustinpotter8312

Жыл бұрын

@@MyMusiKfaVorite After WW2 the Chinese people were told the Communist party would not gain superiority that God would not allow that to happen before the rapture. Many people rejected Christianity based on the falsehood of Pre Trib Rapture doctrine. Persecution was the reason many left the church. The effect was rebellion. There is really only one position if God is rejected no matter what guise it comes in..

@boldbeliever52

Жыл бұрын

You are saying the bride of Christ will be persecuted beyond your wildest nightmares by GODS wrath before the groom comes to take her away to be with Him for an eternity?

@dustinpotter8312

Жыл бұрын

@@boldbeliever52 God does not persecute his children or his intended bride. The devil and his people persecute the bride of Christ. God's wrath is the reward the rebellious receive. Noah's family were protected when the world was destroyed with water. God's wrath took out the evil. Noah and his family experienced the whole flood ordeal but because of obedience they stepped off of the Ark into a whole different world. That is God's pattern. The wicked will be removed. God has proclaimed that the meek shall inherit the earth not the wicked. The kingdom of heaven includes the earth and is not just some mythical pie in the sky as is often taught. In Matthew 19:28 Jesus tells the apostles they will rule and reign with him in the regeneration. That regeneration happens to the earth (Revelation 16:15-21) where mountains and valleys will no longer be as they currently are all around the world due to the biggest earth quake the earth has ever experienced. The apostles will rule and reign when Christ rules in his glory in that regenerated world. Christ doesn't take his bride to heaven away from earth. This world and the heavens about us remain until the end of Revelation 20 (verses11-15). The new heaven and new earth occur In Revelation 21:1 after the final judgment of mankind which happened in Revelation 20:11-15. But the saints will not go up into heaven and be as mystical creatures for God will reside in the new Jerusalem on earth as explained in Revelation 21. The saints will reside on earth in the kingdom of heaven with God and Christ. There is a term "second death" which occurs only in the book of Revelation. It first appears in Rev 2:11 then is found in 20:6 &14 and lastly 21:8. A search and study of that term puts and end to the malarkey of pre tribulation or mid tribulation rapture. Christians do go through judgment as found in Hebrews 9:27 as do all of mankind but those who are found in Rev 20:4-6 do not go through the "second death" judgment. In 1 Cor 32:11-15 Paul describes the process Christians go through before they are allowed to enter the kingdom of heaven but that judgment does not occur until the end of Christs millennium reign or the regeneration period spoken of in Matt 19:28

A red flag that I've noticed is they demand you believe that their view is a fact. That level of 100% certainty about prophecy is not Biblical. The premil post trib/pre wrath and premil/total post trib camp seem to be less sure of themselves. More open to God to do his will. I can't remember if it was Dalton or Joel that said this but, I love this perspective: "Hold these things loosely." Ultimately Christ coming again is all that matters. How that happens shouldn't be so important that it drives us to attack each other.

@handles617

Жыл бұрын

Yep it's a very bad idea to demand and tell people you will go to hell if you believe the wrong timing

All the time, energy and resources these pretribbers put in so that they can prove Jesus wrong: ''29 “Immediately after the distress of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not shed its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the peoples of the earth will mourn; and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 He will send out his angels with a loud trumpet, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. ''

Outstanding

James 1:1 1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Yay!

Right on

Great job bro, beards doin good

Hi Joel, I am working on putting together an argument against pre trib for a friend. Can you go over who the 24 elders are? Or if you have done already, can you point me to that video? Thanks, I appreciate all the awesome teachings!

Thank you for all your videos. I don't often get the opportunity to chat with people who mention any early fathers, but I will definitely refer back to these helpful videos for sure. I've noticed that whenever I share with my brothers/sisters in Christ why I don't believe in a pre-trib rapture they mostly respond with: "Why does it even matter if you're pre-trib, post-trib, etc.?" Your videos have definitely re-affirmed the scriptures of endurance for me, and I just noticed in John 15 where Jesus proclaims the disciples as "...clean because of the word that I have spoken to you." (which is where Jesus speaks ch.14 verse 27 to them?)...and immediately after speaking to the disciples about the hatred of the world toward those not of the world Jesus says in Chapter 16 verse 1: "I have said all these things to you to keep you from falling away." And this "falling away" is of course mentioned in the parable of the sower in Matthew 13:20. There is definitely reason for us to continue being a light on a stand (Mark 4:21) All the TRUTH is there if we just take time to read, study, meditate and pray.

@metapolitikgedanken612

Жыл бұрын

"Why does it even matter if you're pre-trib, post-trib, etc.?" That is a strange answer. Doesn't it matter if something is true or not? I perfectly get why eschatology should be a secondary issue for an individual. though. The key issue is the gospel... And that has to be true, first and foremost. If it isn't the true gospel, but another one... Then there will be a serious problem... that will be the root-cause for other problems... including heresies. So the first question should be: "What is your gospel" and not "What is your eschatology". Well... while there is indication about 'the last days' in the gospel-texts as well as the apostolic letters, and the book of revelation... There isn't a 'general rapture of Christians' as a separate event, years prior to the Return of Christ. And the way it is argued for is actually quite telling: * First and foremost is that "Christ will not allow his bride to suffer"... And while that sounds nice, it's actually wrong on several levels. The bride in revelation is the "New Jerusalem" not Christians or the saints. Jesus and the Apostles indicated that Christians would face tribulation and suffering over and over again. * When pointed out that there isn't even an indication of of a pre-trib rapture anywhere in the text, they use a lot of artistic license why it still says that... Unbelievable what gimmicks they are willing to apply to 'make it work' somehow. * The text is clear that Christians will: a) still be on Earth when Christ Returns. b) That they will be persecuted even killed, once they refuse to worship the first Christ and lock into that system of world governance. c) Have a special place, when they stand firm and die for their refusal. Pretribbing's motive is essentially... Selfish desire... And it is even in the book of Revelation (18:7): "How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow." Well, it's the harlot saying this.... And it reflects the attitude of many Christians today.

@dustinpotter8312

Жыл бұрын

If one does not love the truth what will/do they love in it's place? I spoke with a Minister once who didn't think Christ's personal prophecy about his death, burial and resurrection really mattered. Jesus could rise up a day and a half early it didn't matter to him. Like can our savior be a liar? No sinner can be the savior. He also endorsed a-millennial-ism too. Trouble is people have been baited into thinking clear miss sounds like near miss and God is gracious while ignoring the fact no liar will be allowed in heaven. OT Hebrew says the Messiah will rise on mia sabbaton not a Sunday. We are not to celebrate paganism so we celebrate the wrong date and name it after trans/pagangodess. ??whosoever make and loves a lie will not*****?

@metapolitikgedanken612

Жыл бұрын

@@dustinpotter8312 You'll be surprised how many pastors, theologians reject / don't believe the Resurrection. So the issue is far more fundamental. No idea why people go into theology and ministry, if they don't believe the key points of Christianity anyway.

@dustinpotter8312

Жыл бұрын

@@metapolitikgedanken612 The numbers might be surprising but the fact will not be. The Antichrist was already polluting the church before the book of revelation was written. Not too far off people will openly rebel against God, cheer when his witnesses are killed. Those who are supposed to be teachers of Gods people will people how to hate God's people and convince/coerce people to take the mark of the the beast...bow to the image or turn them in to the authorities to persecute them. The lies of PT will begin to bear massive amounts of fruit. Social programs are replacing theology.

@dustinpotter8312

Жыл бұрын

@@metapolitikgedanken612 In response to your query of why people go into ministry when they don't believe in the key points there are a couple of responses. Without dedication it seems like an easy job and the devil has his laborers too. 1 Samuel 8:2-4, 1 Timothy 3:3 & 8, Titus 1:7 & 11, and 1 Peter 5:2 are all scriptures aimed at honest purpose in ministry and at teaching the flock the type of ministries to avoid. Titus 2:1-3 is an indication the flock is not always willing to endure sound doctrine but have urges to wander as sheep. Matthew 25:1-13 is the parable of wise and foolish virgins but all of the virgins fell under the fault of lack of attention and slept and slumbered. If applied to the church as a whole it helpfully readily explains why we have only had seasons of revival. As far as obedience and attention to contending for the faith we also find the Ai syndrome (Joshua 7). The body of the church at large unknowingly moves forward with evil in their midst and then wonders why it lacks the power of the past. the Antichrist has been moving in the congregations and speaking from the pulpits seducing the minds and hearts of those willing to follow the truth. Just like in days of old the first main sins to accost the people and their faith is violating "loving the LORD your God with all your heart, mind, strength and soul, you shall have no other gods before me Love your neighbor as yourself" and "keeping the sabbath holy." People who will not keep the sabbath holy have already blown the power of the first two commandments. The sabbath was supposed to be a sign between God and man but many only go to church to fulfill an obligation so they can do the rest of that day (Saturday or Sunday) as they see fit. They claim to have the legal freedom to behave that way and claim it is legalism to hold fast the the way God (Yahweh) said to honor it. So we get back to why should anyone study theology and get into ministry when they don't believe the major tenets of the faith. No fear of God or judgment. Just an analysis not a rant. We do need to pray the Lord of the harvest to send in laborers

I couldn’t find Pseudo Ephraim’s writings online. Anyone have a link?

I wonder when Joel will tackle pre-wrath vs post trib, because essentially all these early church writings can fit either, and some of them fit pre wrath better, because of the assertion that the wrath of God comes after Jesus returns, which the bowls are at the very least, explicitly the wrath of God. The trumpets are declared to be the wrath of the lamb, and the 6th seal says it is THE DAY.. so... I look at people saying Revelation 19 and say, well, Revelation 6:17 says this is the day of the Lord.

I've been thinking lately about what should be done to help others see the truth. The west has so many christians as is that we should be focused more on keeping them from possible apostasy. We really shouldn't let the burden rest on the few like joel and fai to spread the truth. We would be able to reach a lot more people by getting together and piecing scripture and topics together like these guys do and putting videos ourselves. Anyone think this is a good idea?

@larrybulthouse455

Жыл бұрын

Most will not listen

@JacquelineHahn1

Жыл бұрын

I try to teach against pre-trib whenever I can but do find that it is very upsetting form some when I do so.

Also... 'gathered together' so that they DO NOT SEE (notice the confusion). The separation of the 'soul and body' is not necessarily 'death'... but the separation of the soul FROM the flesh, rebirth in the spirit.

@JoelRichardson

Жыл бұрын

The sermon speaks of physical death, not spiritual rebirth.

@ChrisMusante

Жыл бұрын

​@@JoelRichardson- they are the same thing. You can be 'taken' and not 'go anywhere' - when you are one with the Father then the 'you' that is 'you' is, but is 'not'.

It is true that the Pre-Tribulation teaching was not there in the apostate church after 400AD this includes premillennial teaching also. When Origen and Augustine came up with the allegorical interpretation of the Bible they condemned all other views as heretical. You can see lot of evidence for perpetual virginity of Mary including the pro evangalium of James and so on, that doesn't mean that those teaching are more trustworthy than the biblical truth of pre-tribulation rapture.

Most church fathers do not mention a rapture at all because as far as the "harpazo" is a valid idea, it is a detail of the 2nd coming, not a separate event.

Well what was it in the Bible when the people saw the evil going on and were afraid they had missed Jesus return?

@handles617

Жыл бұрын

As it says in 2 thess 2, they were concerned they missed the coming of the Lord and gathering to him. He then tells them not to be alarmed by false teachings and rumors. That the day(what day? What he just said, the coming of the Lord and gathering to him). That day will not come until apostasy and antichrist come first. They are simultaneous events. Look at matthew 24. They ask what the signs will be of his coming. He mentions the signs and ends with saying "after the tribulation." "Then you will see the sign of the coming of the son of man." Notice that he doesn't mention a pre trib rapture? Pre trib says "he's talking to unsaved israel" yet he then says "but about that day and hour" and pre trib claim he suddenly changed his audience abruptly to the church snd the topic abruptly to a pre trib rapture. So if that's true then why did he say "but about??" He said "but about" because he is discussing something he JUST talked about. Which is his answer to the question, "What is the sign of your coming," where he states "after the tribulation" Just plain and simple, the bible repeatedly points towards the rapture and his coming as simultaneous and at the end. To believe in pre trib, you have to be taught it. You have to insert it.

So many christians tie their physical situation of being safe, prosperous and accomplished to their faith. As long as things are good, they will remain loyal, but the moment its bad they fall away. How many people out there became christian at a low point and will fall away at the next low point?

Fully agree with your assessments here. Yet I ask whether one might view the second Pseudo Ephraim quote about cemeteries as reconcilable with the pretrib view. It is possible that those P-E referred to in cemeteries were, hypothetically, viewing empty graves while hiding among those who were not resurrected and were lamenting their own lack of good fortune at having missed the rapture. Again-not my view at all. I’m just saying that perhaps the first two statements alone are reconcilable to the Jeffreys view?

@JoelRichardson

Жыл бұрын

Not possible. He says that believers would hide themselves among the dead: "pronouncing the good fortune of the deceased who had avoided the calamity." Deceased, not resurrected or raptured.

Good job - context is everything. But even if someone could find a pre-trib view in the 4th century, it is a moot point. For if the view is not found in the first, second, or third centuries, it would thus be a departure from the faith once delivered to the saints. If it wasn’t true early on, it cannot then become true later. By the 4th century and thereafter there would be many departures from orthodoxy. By ignoring the ante-nicene period in favor of later centuries, one can then support all sorts of corruptions to Christian faith and practice.

@timshelton7905

Жыл бұрын

This is true.

@dustinpotter8312

Жыл бұрын

Good points. Excellent sifting. If you have access to a Young's Literal Translation you will find that the resurrection of Christ terms in most bibles "first day of the week" is translated "first of the sabbaths" as the word "day" is not in the Greek texts. (The KJV italicizes the word day to denote its lack of presence in the text) There were two sabbaths the week Christ was crucified (seems to be a repeating pattern) and the last sabbath of that week was just the weekly sabbath. It is not the high sabbath John was talking about in John 19:31.The word week does come into play as it was the first of seven sabbaths that leads to Pentecost. Following the Jewish/Hebrew calendars can be difficult. But in Exodus 12 the first day of the feast of unleavened bread occurs on the 15 of the month (a high sabbath and still is) and Passover is always on the 14th. Passover is always the preparation day for the high sabbath feast. Christ was not crucified on a Friday. Christ rose on mia sabbaton (first sabbath) He was not buried on Friday night and raised early Sunday. If the lie of Sunday resurrection can be propagated and the day of worship changed to Sunday the whole Christian faith can be led to worship on a day in rebellion to the 10 commandments. That is called inserting the yeast into the loaf. The day of resurrection is now named after a Pagan Goddess (historically found to be alternately bi-sexual). The prophecy of Christ saying 3 days and 3 nights is fouled and the faith of billions gets confused. Jahushua gets changed to Jesus (the letter "J" is only around 500 years old). Jesus was not born on Dec 25 (the old Pagan winter solstice) and we all get raptured before the Lord comes back to set the records straight in the regeneration (Matthew 19:28 this is scripture so that is real). So yes you are right for the foundation for all kinds of false doctrines springing up. Including the "once saved always saved" so they can do away with Hebrews 9:29. Its almost like they can say I am saved and I am a friend of God because I told him so.

@stunnedmulletblah9714

Жыл бұрын

@@dustinpotter8312 I have had a serious accident and acquired brain unjury and strike. Learning therefore is close to impossible....took me 7 years to memorise the,Lord's Prayer. I also have comprehension issues so rely on good teaching, the Holy Spirit and what I can understand from reading my KHV: so reading about Feasts and the like is just too hard.. I have never ascribed to this pretrib nonsense and consider it an evil doctrine. What you say is just another nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned . Thank you So that means Jesus died on Wednesday yeah ?

@dustinpotter8312

Жыл бұрын

@@stunnedmulletblah9714 Yes died and buried what we would call Wednesday. Which would be the onset of the first day of unleavened bread. That's very attentive. I will pray for you. Blessings!

@kyleolson1522

Жыл бұрын

@@dustinpotter8312 If you, or anyone reading this post, are really interested in what the earliest Christians believed and practiced concerning the subjects you have mentioned as well as many others, may I suggest “A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs”, edited by David Bercot. It is a topical guide to the Ante-Nicene Fathers ten volume set. You may find it enlightening to see the practice of Christians who could read koine Greek and also experienced the actual churches established by Jesus and his Apostles.

Day of the Lord... look at Amos 5:18, and contrast that to Isaiah 45:7. This also proves that there is no 'gap' in Genesis (1:1-1:2) - God determines the 'end' from the 'beginning'... a 'reset' means destruction if not 'stopped'. Our time is 'short'.

Where do devils reside? Revelation 18 King James Version 18 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. Babylon, habitation of devils. Where do doctrines of devils come from? How old is pre trib heresy? 1800s?? Nope. 400s? Nope. Older... 7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. American churchianity glorifies herself and lives deliciously. And her pre trib rapture heresy promises her that she shall see no sorrow (beginning of SORROWS). Babylon is pre trib's true origin, not Darby. The future tense (was, is, is to come = past, present, future) iteration of the church of Pergamos is the Israeli remnant that dispensationalists love to drone on and on about. Satan's seat in the tribulation? Jerusalem. Two edged sword of Jesus referenced twice...Armageddon...in Israel. Hidden manna...Rev 12:6 & 14. Sacrificed things to idols...Isaiah 66:17. It is a church, not a separate nation from the church. And if 1 church is in the tribulation, they all are because the body of Christ cannot be divided (1 Corinthians 12:12-25). kzread.info/dash/bejne/hHeZ18SuY7zWYco.html

I wonder how many Pretribbers in Ukraine started to have doubt in God's word when the war broke out? I listen to Olive Tree Ministries alot!!! when driving and doing 12 hour trips across the country... The message I get from them ( JAn Markel, Amir, Jack Hibbs) is ''The tribulation is going to be so bad.....but you will miss it''

@JacquelineHahn1

Жыл бұрын

I used to listen to them a lot but found the constant pretrib message ended up getting to me so I stopped. I also wondered at how quick Amir was in getting the clot shot and how he had so much freedom to roam during the whole cv mandates. With his giving out of military information and not getting cancelled like so many other KZreadrs, it just makes me a bit suspicious

I am post trib and wrath return because when I read the Word of God I see that He is able to keep me safe and set apart in the midst of all these things. He did it for the men in firery furnace, He did it for Daniel in the Lions Den. He is more than able to shelter me from His Wrath here on earth.

What is the purpose for promoting the false message of the rapture?

@koalabear19

Жыл бұрын

My suspicion is that it's another lie down among the truth to lure people away from the truth....by appealing to our sin of 'comfort' in the West especially these days. We have it so easy while others have it so tough....let's be vigilant in these days and treasure the truth and not our own preferences

@themaranathaplumbline2023

Жыл бұрын

Deception

@eswn1816

Жыл бұрын

A desire for prosperity, comfort & ease. "No worries..." No responsibility to become disciples, sanctified and holy. Finally, ignorance about God's purpose in suffering = cleansing. See Malachi 3: 3 "And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness."

Back at it again?

Maybe Joel can refute the idea that pretrib dispensatioalism teaches that the Church inherits some fairytale idea that we go to some heavenly realm rather then we will be with Yeshua a kingdom of his rein here on earth for a thousand years

@eswn1816

Жыл бұрын

Bullseye 🎯

@nickstrickland4751

Жыл бұрын

@@eswn1816 👍

@eswn1816

Жыл бұрын

@@nickstrickland4751 Reading the Gospels, starting at Matthew, presents a Jesus very different from pre-trib rapture doctrine. He constantly taught on the Kingdom and emphasized our responsibility and accountability in this life. In addition, He clearly taught that positions and rewards will vary greatly in the Kingdom. The Bible describes those who will barely be saved as well as Jesus warning to the lawbreakers (believers, saved ones) who will be least in the Kingdom! All of these Biblical teachings have been replaced by (you called it) a "fairytale idea" virtually eliminating the need to do anything or live any kind of a life after repeating a brief prayer. It is sad... 😢

@nickstrickland4751

Жыл бұрын

@@eswn1816 Absolutely, it’s gotten ridiculous modern western Christianity has strayed so far from the truth, it will not be this lovey dovey oouey gooey Jesus that will recieve them with open arms just because they believed that his coming was imminen, and that for that reason they are good to go, they believe in Jesus but they don’t follow what he taught or commanded they only listen to teachers whom they acquired and have their itching ears soothed at the cost of losing their soul or be called least in the Kingdom, they don’t follow Moses, or the prophets. Yeshua himself said if you don’t believe in Moses how can you believe me, in other words if we don’t heed what Moses taught and commanded it’s impossible to really believe in Yeshua, because it’s two different things to believe, and do what he commanded us. I’m really tired of the grace perversions and the idea that the Torah was done away with, yes the degree of their reward will be embarrassing. And they think that their ticket out of here is already punched they lie to themselves they have in a deep sleep and when Yeshua comes like a thief in the night, the snare will have already caught them, they don’t realize that the tribulation really isn’t fully about the judgement of the wicked, it’s about the judgement that first starts in the house of God, and it is his love for us to purify us and make us clean before him. His coming as a thief has nothing to do with his second coming these are two different things, because the theif steals away the grace that was there waiting to be activated in our lives to prepare us for the unbelievable hard times that we must endure, those who have suffered greatly will role over in their graves if they saw the people who think that they are ready to go when they are not, I would say that everything that we were warned of about the times surrounding the end are in place now for the begining of the great tribulation. Mat Yehovah empower us for this very difficult time that is coming upon the world, now that is what grace is the empowerment to patiently endure these coming times. Now I do believe that there is a faithful remnant who have already prepared themselves and have learned obediance through suffering because it’s really about learning to obey the voice of our Lord, so we may have a great ministry to help others seeking the truth in these times, so let’s all come before Yehovah in sincerity and truth and ask him in faith to prepare us for the coming times. Amen

@10:42 - Classic! I have seen so many pre-tribbers try to polly-parrot the "Pseudo-Ephraim" defense of its historicity, and in many cases do it so clumsily that it is clear that they have never bothered to examine that claim critically, nor do any follow up research. But I always die laughing at the ones who go so far as to even think that "Pseudo" was his actual name!

In the end it is foulishness to try to prove pre-trib by quoting some people ever lived who believed the pre-trip and made a document about it. We have enough evidence with The Word of God and God Himself giving the insight to understand.

@handles617

Жыл бұрын

Except there is no proof. Not a single scripture proves it. Nobody believed it because it was never taught, even in the first century. It's a lie based on false interpretations, forced inserting of doctrine, contradictions, and complete guessing.

Could this teaching be attributed to Masonic Influences?

I do not believe in pretrib rapture and never have because to me it is pretty clear in that statements in the Bible contradict the notion of pretrib rapture. In spite of the fact that I do not believe in it, sounds to me like this writer did believe in it. I see no problem in admitting it sounds like he did. He is not God! His writings are not scripture! So what if someone before the 1800’s believed in the pretrib rapture- that does not make it true! Look at how many early Christians believed in other false doctrines. I do not think we should put too much emphasis on whether or not there were at least a few early Christians who believed in it. What counts is statements in the Bible.

Where do you get rapture in the bible anywhere? The word never shows up. Only rapture I have found in the bible is the wicked /evil disappearing.

@houseontherock8345

Жыл бұрын

It’s in Latin. It means “caught up” which is in the Bible. The event, Paul calls the gathering, is the rapture. And it comes at the end of the tribulation

@aliciabrock4444

Жыл бұрын

@@houseontherock8345 If Gods people will inherit the earth ,why would you be caught up ? Just be careful not to be caught up in so many delusions that the world gives.

@aliciabrock4444

Жыл бұрын

@@houseontherock8345 If you want to know Paul's true character I really encourage you o read last chapter of job. He really fooled many people.

I do not agree with the bias comment (bad call of a ref). There are some who can see this trap and have a conscience and honestly this is what Jesus was referring to when said, "fish from the other side',.and imparted the idea that the 'dead' should be the ones to 'bury' the dead. These bias' are the reason for all the messed up interpretations - people wanting to find hope from truths that are not true; one of the worst being that Jesus had to die for our sins - he died 'because' of our sin. He 'becoming sin' was when the Jews murdered Him. Paul is clear on this in 1 Corinthians 2:8. As the 'word' that became flesh Jesus is 'a' Son of God (there are many) that is begotton 'not' because He is the only one, but because there is only one Way to become a begotten 'son' and that is through obedience to God's 'word' (law). Coming to the Father as a 'child' pointed out the idea that our actions either produce life (good fruits) or death (evil spirits) - wages... and/or reaping what is sown. God's law is NOT breakable - defined as a blessing and a curse - you can rebel, but nothing is 'broken' except the one who rebels, tit for tat and eye for an eye, and though God does not 'author' evil (do it), He does make USE of it as He needs and even created it (Isaiah 45:7). Jesus as the 'Word' then states that nobody comes to the Father except 'thru' Him (God's word). This means that ALL are serving God one side of the lawnor the other, (Romans 2:12-14) making God sovereign and in control - knowing this is where 'faith' comes from, even wisdom, and able to 'learn' with or without the 'law'. But where the 'letter' of the law brought harsh punishments and even death, the Spirit of the law (intention) brings life and thru 'grace'. Hard as it is to concieve, no pun intended, grace is a component of 'evil' (used for good) as it is 'evil' to rebel against God's law. The law is not breakable, and thus is truth and truth, and grace is twinkling of the eye amount of time to make the decision to NOT sin, and why Jesus said, I come to judge the 'quick and the dead'. We really have messed up with how we understand this book folks... I wish I did not know what I do, and worse, the job of trying to explain it. We are all deluded and dead wrong. 😔

@christincommon5496

Жыл бұрын

Grace does not cause us to go against God’s law. On the contrary, His grace empowers us to live for Him as Jesus instructed us. Sin has no power over the believer. We do not rebel against God’s law. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying?

@ChrisMusante

Жыл бұрын

@@christincommon5496 - misunderstand - thank you for having an open mind... yes, you do. I'll try again - there is no partiality in 'justice', where would you draw the line? Is Hitler in heaven? Consider... to 'go against' (rebel) against the law of God is 'evil', and 'grace' allows for that. Obviously, that makes grace GOOD for us, but technically (in prefections eye) 'bad'. This means that we are using 'bad for good' thru grace. However, because of this fact, and as Paul pointed out, we should not take advantage of grace - as he put it - 'sinning more that grace abound' is BAD. This also ties into the idea that we are changed in the twinkling of the eye, which is quick, an idea, the realization, etc. And thus why Jesus said, "I come to judge the 'quick' and the 'dead'. But even that verse applies to the idea that Jesus, as the 'word' is the LAW of God, which is given as a blessing AND a curse. A blessing if followed, a curse if not. Thus a 'double edge sword of truth' can be seen. Both obedience AND rebellion are represented and accounted for, as being addressed or to say, whatever one does - judged or BOUND to this law. Paul makes this point in Romans 2:12-14... matters not if you 'have' the law, and even those without it are bound to it, and can be a 'law unto themselves' if they do the works of it. Because Jesus is/was the Word, and the word was/is God, all things are done (made/unmade) through and by it. When Jesus said, no one cones to the Father except 'thru' me, was to say that the word of God is what guards the way to the tree of life. And if you have seen the scriptures, then you have (on paper or as a scroll) seen 'God' (the word). As for 'grace' as being a bad or good thing, it depends on how it is 'used' or even sadly 'abused'. I would point out that there are specific 'number structures' used in Hebrew and 10 (God's perfection) never appears next to a 5 (God's grace) but 15 is a number that represents God. They always used 6's and 9's to show that number, because perfection needs no 'grace' - they do not go or 'belong' together, as perfect would not be 'perfect' if there was any 'gray area' as this again, points out partiality and injustice. Thus grace is both good and bad, and as such, evil is NOT GOOD, but it IS GOOD that God 'created' evil. Now read Isaiah 45:7 (KJV), can you see the contrasting statements and how the word created was used? Man was 'formed' NOT 'created', and in NOT knowing 'evil' was thus 'VERY GOOD', BUT, once we did know evil, we became 'like God' and thus creators (sort of and mostly) ourselves. And thus, the 'law'... to guide us was needed, and the 'tribulation' began. All of that is the basis for my Theodicy - look up that definition - and so far as I have found, I am the ONLY man to ever have put it all together in this way, and vindicated God, for the existence of evil, and even gone further (than the defintion) to show that without it, there could be no 'grace' and thus it's a good thing that He did 'create' it. Been trying to reach a theologian who can understand this, cause we are in big trouble here. The days of Noah are days we do NOT want to see, as they indicated complete destruction (Amos 5:18) and should instead, model Jeremiah 18:7-10 as our dogma or modus operandi. Shalom.

@christincommon5496

Жыл бұрын

@@ChrisMusante thank you for taking the time to explain your ideas. My thoughts: God did not create evil-He gave us the ability to freely choose (free-will, if you like), and the result of exercise of that will against God is known as “evil”. Just as darkness is absence of light, absence of good is evil (there is no neutral ground, unless you consider the decision point to be neutral). This is why our whole being must “be light” as Jesus said, to not allow the devil a foothold. We can exercise our will for the good, submit to God, and the “devil has to flee,” proving that it does not have power of its own, but must be used by a person or entity to manifest. In a similar way, God did not “create” good; He IS good. We are not “good”, but we can cause goodness to manifest by our choices. We choose to obey Him (good) or rebel against Him (evil). All of the virtues are found in God and are available to us, but we must CHOOSE them. When we rebel, we are instead choosing the opposite of that virtue, which is evil. I hope this makes sense. Ps I agree about Jeremiah 18 and the precarious position we are in.

@ChrisMusante

Жыл бұрын

@@christincommon5496 - Isaiah 45:7 says point blank that He created it. He created everything. Even the law - and it's statuates define WHAT evil 'is'... "I form light and I CREATE darkness, I make peace and I CREATE evil: I the Lord do all these things." There is ONE spirit that is Holy, the others are 'not'. The 'darkness' and 'evil' are what all things are 'made' from. Genesis 1:2 is clear - AFTER God 'created'... 'NOW' the earth was without form and void. Destruction is the first part of a 'reset'. And will also be our 'end' someday, because the earth will 'wear out' as Jesus put it. Psalm 139:12 puts it in perspective - God sees light and dark the same. It is man with his 'open eyes' that decides to 'fight' evil, instead of seeing it as 'lesser' and in need of pray, clothing, love, etc - as Jesus said.

@christincommon5496

Жыл бұрын

@@ChrisMusante he says in Isaiah 45:7 that He creates calamity. KJV says evil. He is talking about bringing war and judgment, not evil in general. See also Amos 3:6 for a similar verse.

Pre wrath was first taught in thte 1990s. Embarrassing.

The church/bride rapture is at judgment day. Jesus is Truth John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times Revelation 20 shows two Resurrections One is called the First Resurrection One is at the Last day Jesus is Truth Keep the Faith

@zechariah1398

Жыл бұрын

The church isn’t the bride brother.

@squirreljones3595

Жыл бұрын

@@zechariah1398 There's two groups of Christians mentioned in Revelation Christians that overcome the Mark of the beast are saints Christians that die before the Mark of the beast are the bride of CHRIST The bride of CHRIST doesn't overcome, they didn't endure till the end, THEY NEVER HAD TO FACE A REAL god

@zechariah1398

Жыл бұрын

@@squirreljones3595 Disagree completely on your choice of the bride.

@squirreljones3595

Жыл бұрын

@@zechariah1398 Revelation 7 14 Saints get white robes Revelation 19 8 The bride of CHRIST gets Fine linen clean and white

Lol. JOEL. As if that's your real name 😉

You cannot come to a pre trib rapture conclusion without violating the commands of Revelation 22:18-19. Revelation 22:18-19 King James Version 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. PreTrib ADDS a non existent, gentile only, 3rd resurrection to the Text while simultaneously TAKING AWAY all of Matthew 24 & 19 chapters of Revelation from the church to assign them to a nation state full of unbelievers in the middle east. The dead in Christ rise first...this is a resurrection that coincides with the "caught up/alive & remaining". There are 4 witnesses in the Bible who tell us that there is only 2 total resurrections; 1 for the righteous and 1 for the unrighteous. These witnesses are Daniel in Daniel 12:2, Jesus in John 5:28-29, Paul in Acts 24:15 & John right at the end of the Book in Revelation 20:4-6 & 11-15. If there was a 3rd resurrection, why didn't John mention it in Revelation? If there's a 3rd, gentile only resurrection before the tribulation, then why did Paul tell a gentile Roman governor in Acts 24:15 that there's only 2 total resurrections? Lying about the resurrection and it's timing is directly linked to apostasy in the Bible. (1 Timothy 1:19-20 cross referenced with 2 Timothy 2:16-18) This was labeled blasphemy by Paul and he threw these men out of the church over it (deliver unto satan). The dead in Christ rise first...the dead in Christ took communion when they were alive. Jesus said that WHOSOEVER takes communion is raised up at the last day. (John 6:54) That isn't before the tribulation. Last day...day is as 1,000 years. Raised up AT the last 1,000 years...AT the beginning of the last 1,000 years...which is exactly what John tells us in Revelation 20:4-6. The Scriptures always harmonize when man's opinions don't get in the way. Galatians 5:19-21 lists heresies as a work of the flesh that excludes people from the kingdom. There is no greater heresy than one that directly, and openly defiantly refutes the words of our Lord. Jesus told us when we would be gathered in Matthew 24 and it is not before the tribulation. Do not listen to these wanna be prophets, teachers & pastors who are selling you the rat poison that is pre trib rapture heresy. They are sowing the seeds on the stony ground. 20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. And to all the false teachers who peddle this heresy; you are literally playing with eternal fire. Be not many masters for we shall receive...

@James-vz7rq

9 ай бұрын

I see you have overlooked a bunch of details. Revelation 20:4 - "And I SAW THRONES, and THEY SAT UPON THEM , and JUDGEMENT WAS GIVEN UNTO THEM:.."

@James-vz7rq

9 ай бұрын

All you do is make straw man against the pre trib position. First of all you ignore that God will restore Israel. This happens during the tribulation. They will believe in the Lord in the Ladder days. Scripture clearly says it in hosea: “For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim: AFTERWARD shall the children of Israel RETURN, AND SEEK THE LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.” ‭‭Hosea‬ ‭3‬:‭4‬-‭5‬ All of this is confirmed in romans 11:25-27 when Israel will be saved when the time of the Gentiles are fulfilled. So to think that it is foolish to apply matt 24 to the Jews is ignoring of what the bible teaches. And how could you say pre trib takes matt 24 off the church when the church did not exist at that point? Didn’t you know that even matt 24 is still doctrinally in the OT? Hebrews 9:15-17 says a testament has no power while the testator lives. A testament is of force after men are dead. This means that the New Testament did not begin until after Jesus died. So matt 24 is still doctrinally in the OT. The body of Christ was born at pentecost and not before. So you can’t say it is for the church. The whole chapter has Jewish references. Those who are in judea, the sabbath is mentioned. The abomination of desolation in the temple is mentioned etc. How is that not for the Jews? I can tell you what the main problem for the post trib rapture is. REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY. if you want to believe in the post trib rapture you have to force replacement theology to your doctrine. Not just this but you have the church face God’s wrath. So what you teach is the complete opposite of what scripture says. By the way, if you study OT prophesy you see that Matthew 24:29-31 is the fulfillment of these scriptures: Deut. 30:1-6 Isaiah 11:10-12 Isaiah 27:12-13 Isaiah 43:5-8 Ezekiel 11:17 Jeremiah 31:7-12 Jeremiah 32:37. you have ignored OT prophesy about the gathering of the Jews in order to follow the post trib rapture.

search Ephraim and the Rapture

Respectfully. He didn't teach the name of "jesus'. He shared the gospel of Yahushuah. The hebrew MaShiach. Part of the end times deception is "The Christ Jesus". Hebrew words, names and law studies are crucial to fully understand the true gospel of Yahushuah HaMashiach.

@handles617

Жыл бұрын

It's a name. It's a translated equivalent name. You should find something more important to worry about.

@michaelwilliamlane9492

Жыл бұрын

@john 14; 6 nah, I'm deep and analytical. I understand the process of that translation. And the people who translated it. I understand the dire and ominous warnings by Yahushuah about end times deception and how he came in his father's name and was not accepted and that the world would accept another who came in his own name. What name to you call The Father, Yahuah? Only ever titles? gad, guess, gawd, lord? Why were his name and the aleph taw scrubbed out of modern "bibles" almost 7k times? Maybe I should spend my time watching sports and talking politics I stead of deep and diligent study of scripture? Why after the 325 conclusion of the councel of Nicea did they outlaw and murder "Judeaisers" and burn as much hebrew literature as possible? If you don't understand or at least study the hebrew mindset, culture, language, Messiah, than you don't understand the true gospel. Just the false gospel of "the church" and pegan churchianity. Respectfully.

@handles617

Жыл бұрын

@Michael William Lane it's a name. If you get fooled because somebody came in with the WRONG NAME then you'll be fooled even if he uses the "right name" Time to find something useful to focus on What you're focusing on borders on the same as those who use numerology to date set.

@michaelwilliamlane9492

Жыл бұрын

@john 14; 6 well that names comes along with its false ideology and gospel.

@handles617

Жыл бұрын

@Michael William Lane Your point doesn't make any sense. Unless you can explain to me a particular scenario where a guy comes in with the wrong name, and that is the singular reason people get fooled. Again, if you are fooled because a guy came in with a "wrong name" then you will be fooled regardless of whatever name given.

Wish this man knew the Bible. Controlled ops?

@handles617

Жыл бұрын

Big statement. Any basis?

@just_me2797

Жыл бұрын

Controlled ops? That is the language of a person that has no counter argument. I was born into a Baptist family. I even went to a private Christian school and Joel, through extensive study of the scriptures, understands as I do. Regardless of how people attempted to tell me what the scriptures say I could not perform the mental gymnastics that it takes to find any evidence of a pretribulation rapture. It isn't there. If controlled ops exist it is in the mass of churches that teach from fliers, non prophetic writings, etc. in order to attract "paying customers" amongst their ranks.

@JoelRichardson

Жыл бұрын

Satan sent me to prepare Christians to lay down their lives for Jesus.

@christianmichael8

Жыл бұрын

We need to throw down our life so that kingdom of israel can rule for 1000 years on earth and tikkun elam. Preach it brother

@glory7111

Жыл бұрын

Wish you knew it.

Why couldn't the NT have been written in Hebrew - Greek is a mess.

@handles617

Жыл бұрын

Some of them would've written it in Hebrew, but most of the audience was not Jewish, and their persecution forced them into Europe. No point writing in Hebrew at that point.

@christianmichael8

Жыл бұрын

The NT was not written in hebrew because paleo hebrew was a dead language during that time. The massuretic text didnt appear until 700-1000 years later; after the time of Jesus Christ.

@ChrisMusante

Жыл бұрын

@@christianmichael8 - thank you. Blessings to you!!

@christianmichael8

Жыл бұрын

Blessings to you brother

@Berean_with_a_BTh

Жыл бұрын

​@@christianmichael8 Paleo-Hebrew has nothing to do with this. Hebrew _was_ in use in Jesus' day, as is plain from the Dead Sea Scrolls and from the fact that He read from the Isaiah scroll in the synagogue. Aramaic was the common language of Israel then, but Greek was also widely spoken. In all likelihood, Jesus conversed with Pilate in Greek. Outside Israel, Greek was the lingua-franca and it would have made little sense writing to Gentiles in Rome, Greece, etc. in Hebrew.

So…you went to a “prophecy conference” and I’m supposed to take seriously your opinions on pretrib? I’ll pass.

Derogatory term used for believers that do not agree exactly as you do... check... Another video I will not be watching... check.

@lilwaynesworld0

Жыл бұрын

And when your side uses the term post tribbers and the term replacement theology as to anyone who disagrees with them as replacement theology when most of the term is just post tribulation which includes Israel not a replacement none of that is slander get over yourself

@wjdyr6261

Жыл бұрын

Jesus himself said that the 1st resurrection or rapture is "...immediately after the tribulation of those days..." Which makes Jesus a "post-trib" believer

@handles617

Жыл бұрын

​@@wjdyr6261 yep and it's even explained by Jesus further on But about that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. What day or hour is he referring to? Well he just finished saying he was coming after the tribulation. He said this in response to the question the disciples asked him, "what is the sign of your coming." Pre trib will of course say it's the 2nd coming not the rapture, even though reading this naturally you couldn't possibly get that. You have to insert that narrative. So the days of Noah statement he makes further down the passage where everyone that misses it gets taken by the flood is obviously before God's wrath at the end. Pre trib says many of those in the flood get saved. Jesus denies this and says everyone is taken by it.

@squirreljones3595

Жыл бұрын

Try not to confuse the two Resurrections The church/bride rapture is at judgment day. Jesus is Truth John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times Jesus is Truth Only one day can be Last Jesus is Truth Last day means no more days Revelation 20 shows two Resurrections One is called the First Resurrection One is at the Last day The Bible never promised the thousand year reign of Jesus to the church/bride Mystery Babylon added the church/bride to the thousand year reign of Jesus Jesus is Truth Keep the Faith

@shdwbnndbyyt

Жыл бұрын

@@lilwaynesworld0 My side? I hope for one and prepare for the other. What I dislike is how many of those of either camp are so condemning of the other viewpoint. I read the church fathers and the dead sea scroll translations and the scriptures, and I see arguments for either side.

false claim. the dotl is far more than the 2nd coming. neither are you a linquest.