to get a good characterization of shadow, we had to get a controversial characterization of sonic. We can never have peace💀

@AceCardGaming

4 ай бұрын

I know, right!?

@devinsauls9137

4 ай бұрын

​@@AceCardGaming If I had a nickel every time the writers made everyone else worse to make Shadow look good I would have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice

@Sonicmid

4 ай бұрын

@@devinsauls9137 in my opinion everyone else except sonic was fine

@devinsauls9137

4 ай бұрын

@@Sonicmid It still happened twice though

@mr.thumbsup8335

4 ай бұрын

My guess is it's because in order to make Shadow look more logical and calculated than Sonic, they kinda "dumbed down" Sonic to be more immature and spontaneous than usual. Basically the opposite of early IDW, where Sonic is the one making the smart decisions and Shadow does things recklessly. There definitely needs to be a balance to write both characters well while still retaining the differences between the two

Steps on how to write a good Shadow The hedgehog: Step 1: He is cool Step 2: He cares End of list. I don't get why this is so hard. Its not rocket science.

@SonicSwift99

4 ай бұрын

Don't forget step 3: have a nice balance of being cold and calculating yet empathic. Shadow isn't an edgelord with no friends but he does have anti-hero tendencies. 06, Colors DS, and Chronicles (even though it's not canon) perfectly managed to balance these character traits and even Forces had that foundation but wasn't expanded upon (like many other things in that game).

@God-xd1wr

4 ай бұрын

This extends to Sonic too. I’m shocked I have to say this. And they literally had both of these in the show and they _still_ fumbled *both* bags.

@donathan2933

3 ай бұрын

You act is if Prime Shadow doesn’t have these traits 💀

@Sadet1991

3 ай бұрын

wait where those steps again? Was it Step 1. Make him look like Vagita? and Step 2. Make him cold? OK ;P

@sumnahlennon5449

3 ай бұрын

​@@SonicSwift99Shadow is an edgelord. His character is based off the exact same traits Vegeta and Sasuke are based off of. The moment Shadow becomes good or stops attacking the protagonist, he will show more of these traits. Which he did.

SEGA making team Dark SUDDENLY not being friends aymore is by far one of their worst decisions ever. Don't know why they think making Shadow alone with no friends makes him cooler

@donathan2933

4 ай бұрын

Ima take Sonic Prime’s depiction of Shadow having “friends” with a grain of salt and just see what the games will give us

@liamphibia

4 ай бұрын

Hopefully since Ian Flynn's now the head writer of future Sonic games, he can bring the Team Dark back together again and deny Sega's statements.

@donathan2933

4 ай бұрын

@@liamphibia Ian can only do that if Sega Mandates dumbasses eases up on their restrictions

@nicholassgobero

3 ай бұрын

I like to think that it's Just Shadow who says he doesn't have friends but he Just wants to look cool and deeply cares about everyone, and everyone Else sees that

It’s so weird to me how this show treats Rouge as part of Sonic’s close friend group but no shadow with them (and no omega at all)

@1999bazz

4 ай бұрын

Because him & Rouge aren't friends. They've always been described as allies. Shadow is closed off because he doesn't want friends. He's not a tsundere like Knuckles, he's cold & ruthless, & moves with purpose.

@AceCardGaming

4 ай бұрын

@1999bazz If you played SA2, Heroes and 06, I have no idea how you came to that conclusion.

@awesomeocelot7475

4 ай бұрын

@@AceCardGaming exactly. Shadow clearly cares about Rouge and Omega as friends. He’s just super introverted is all.

@liteyearsx6312

4 ай бұрын

@@1999bazz Yeah this is way off. Rouge has cared about Shadow even back in SA2. Shadow even after his controversial revival has always seen Rouge as one of the people he could always rely on, most indicated in Sonic Battle and Sonic 06. SEGA has gutted Shadow's character over the years, but those two being together has always remained consistent.

@God-xd1wr

4 ай бұрын

@@1999bazz Shadow is closed off because he spent his whole life isolated with only one friend and still holds onto that friend. Understanding Sonic, listening to Sonic’s friends and working with Rouge and Omega has helped him open up.

I honestly love the facial expressions Shadow gives when responding to Sonic’s quippy remarks. Doesn’t say anything, just give a look that says “Really?” and proceeds with the discussion.

My dream scenario is that the movies will get Shadow so right that we end up with a Team Dark versus Black Doom trilogy.

@liamphibia

4 ай бұрын

Maybe Black Doom will make his debut in Shadow's Spin-off film/show.

@-KORAL_ZERO

3 ай бұрын

Black doom you say…

@Twilord_

3 ай бұрын

@@-KORAL_ZERO Yes, I have always been a big fan. I can't wait to see how that gaslighting manipulative monster does in his grand return.

Shadow and Rouge are such good friends though damn shame they didn't get an interaction

The reason this was scrutinized more than Boom, was that this was supposed to be cannon. Whilst Boom was inferred as a parody series.

@rayvenkman2087

2 ай бұрын

I never understand people insisting Prime and IDW to be absolutely canon to the Games when Sonic Team can simply turn around and ignore or outright contradict them in the next mainline. It’s happened to IDW Samurai Jack before Season 5, it’s happened to Transformers Bayverse Expanded Media after DoTM, there was a whole debate regarding Star Wars Clone Wars EU vs TCW and Doctor Who’s Eighth Doctor Adventures getting bumped out by the Big Finish Eighth Doctor audios as the prime Eighth Doctor Canon. If the next Sonic game comes out and says Amy Rose never led any restoration effort, then that’s how it is. You’re canon to a certain point but if the main series is still ongoing and managed by a different team, then contradictions are inevitable unless you have a continuity supervisor making sure things flow together coherently.

@AceCardGaming

2 ай бұрын

@rayvenkman2087 The Sonic series does now have a lore team. Whether or not you think they’re doing a good job is up to you, but the lore should be consistent when there is a team dedicated to ensuring just that. And I’m not sure what you mean when you say that you don’t understand why people insist certain things are canon. People say Prime is canon because that’s what Sega/Sonic Team have said. Trust me, I’d much prefer it wasn’t, but I can barely use that as a reason to pretend it isn’t.

@rayvenkman2087

2 ай бұрын

@@AceCardGaming I bring up the canon element because I have seen a fair number of works that brands themselves as official sequels, prequels or continuations of a series and were treated as such for a time until the folks in charge decides to dismiss them. The original Star Wars Expanded Universe comes to mind because a lot of the media were canon to the films and some ideas has even made their way into the main canon including the name of the capital planet of the Grand Republic/Galactic Empire but then the Disney buyout happened and binned it from canon while occasionally stealing from the pile. They may say Sonic Prime is canon but will they actually maintain that stance in the foreseeable future or will it simply fade from their consciousness and decide to discard it? How long will IDW Sonic be able to stay within the curfew of the Games before we get to a point the two can no longer be able to coexist cohesively without conflict? I say this because of Sega of Japan’s infamous attitude towards the Western Sonic. Given they’re a western creation, the way they’ve treated Sega of America’s contributions towards Sonic and the general rivalry between the two, I would not put it past them to dismiss them after a while. Sonic Prime might get the DiC Sonic treatment and with the current financial troubles of IDW, they’ll might find another company to start all over again. Cynical of me to say but I have seen it happen before and plus, they’re very inconsistent on what’s canon and what isn’t with no middle ground. They actually have a lore team? Wouldn’t have noticed considering the attitude towards the whole Team Dark not being friends and the whole Classic Sonic being an alternate reality of Modern Sonic instead of being its’ past debacle. I assume they’re more SoJ-leaning than SoA I take it?

@AceCardGaming

2 ай бұрын

The lore team includes Ian Flynn. But I doubt they have decision making abilities above the head honchos and probably just have to help ensure things tie together.

5:50 Sega created some mandates so that the characters don't stray from their essence, however, they didn't know how to create mandates for Shadow. Ian Flynn even said that the character he least likes working on is Shadow, because Sega doesn't make it easy. And one of those mandates is "Shadow can't have friends."

This just makes me want a Shadow spinoff.

@AceCardGaming

4 ай бұрын

Would love to see this. This version of Shadow given some room to breathe would be amazing!

@Starrmonster02

4 ай бұрын

I know me too I really want a shadow spin-off he’s literally my most favorite character

@kaxcommentssomethingREAL

4 ай бұрын

2D, or 3D?

@JumperTV33

4 ай бұрын

Shadow PRIME! Coming to a Netflix near you!

@Starrmonster02

4 ай бұрын

@@kaxcommentssomethingREAL 3d obviously

I think the reason he lost his faith in Sonic during the series was because he broke their reality, the same reality he wanted to protect, and believed that he was the only one who could fix this, but in the end he did regain his faith in Sonic(mostly) although he still doubts him from time to time, I like to believe it is because he is afraid of something like this happening again.

"i like to play a little game called, where where where where's sHaDoW"😂 that just got me doing the goofyass eggman laugh😂😂😂😂

Yo that where is shadow reference was a deep cut. Chef kiss

@AceCardGaming

4 ай бұрын

Glad at least one person so far enjoyed it! 😅

@Cbev1994

4 ай бұрын

@@AceCardGaming my fiancé is cackling so at least two lol

@AceCardGaming

4 ай бұрын

That. Is a win in my book!

@JumperTV33

4 ай бұрын

@@AceCardGamingI enjoyed it, even though I didn’t know where it was from. Now that I do, it’s 10x funnier!

@AceCardGaming

4 ай бұрын

@@JumperTV33 Considering it was a show that was a little after my time, and one I only know because of my younger brother, I legitimately have no idea how it popped into my head for that joke! 😅

I enjoy season 3 and really love how Shadow was written in this show. This was the best version of Shadow we've gotten since Sonic 06.

@AceCardGaming

4 ай бұрын

Agreed. No competition.

@stinkypitz0005

4 ай бұрын

Okay, agreed, but it makes me sad.

@Starrmonster02

4 ай бұрын

I know right this version of shadow is the best ever he is absolutely badass

@DLxxx

4 ай бұрын

​​​​​​@@Starrmonster02 Can you elaborate on that? If badass moments during a fight are all this version of Shadow has, then what makes it stand out for you? It's not like we haven't had badass Shadows before, some that were significantly more fleshed out in terms of their actual character writing (SA2 and 06 being two clear examples). So.. I just don't get what I'm missing 🤔

@acejumper1681

4 ай бұрын

I really hope movie shadow has similarly good characterization. Sonic was decent but had better characterization in other projects, like the IDW comics.

It absolutely blows mind how the writers manage to make a poorly written Sonic and yet a great version of Shadow (but it still has problems). I also can't believe that Shadow barely interacts with anyone that isn't Sonic in this show. At least it looks like Sega is done with the edgelord fase of Shadow, I hope that in the games both Shadow AND SONIC are well written so we can have a better dynamic with them. And I also wanna say, the cast does a okay job with the characters, but Ian Hanlin absolutely kills it as Shadow. Absolutely incredible, might be my favorite Shadow voice and this is coming from someone who grew up with Jason Griffin

@mayracordero382

4 ай бұрын

Ian was incredible as the voice of shadow in sonic prime!

@donathan2933

4 ай бұрын

Agreed. As much as l love Prime Shadow. The writers don’t need to make Sonic an idiot for his character to work. Sonic being reckless and destroying their world was an acceptable mistake but him acting completely stupid and oblivious to the different environments and personalities of people around him was a problem

I laughed a bit when he asked "Whose baby is this?". But to clear up the question, I think that Dr Babble is supposed to be Dr Deep's baby because over season 2 and 3 we see him taking care of Dr Babble.

@DarkReaper12

4 ай бұрын

It's clear that the Egg council are all just a shattered Eggman. Each repping a part of his known personality.

@DarkReaper12

4 ай бұрын

@@monkebrain5932 Exactly. Eggman is an aloof, petulant child that sees conquest as a game and a man that takes himself and his own virtues too seriously. All wrapped up with a self image more overcompensating than that toupee.

Prime Shadow gives me some hope for his character in the future. I think he was handled well with the fact that he is stubborn and forceful, but was empathetic when he had to. It kinda gives me hope for the third movie, because even they said that when Movie 3 comes out, they'll reevaluate Shadow's character. I mean in the show, they reference the fact that Shadow doesn't have friends. And other things like Murder of Sonic The Hedgehog, hints that they're minimizing the Shadow mandates.

@donathan2933

3 ай бұрын

Agreed

Despite the show’s goofy problems, I ultimately (pun intended) enjoyed Sonic Prime. The best aspect is easily the action, going back to different episodes always manages to answer the question, “Is this show really that entertaining to recommend?” The comedy is also well done, Chaos Council especially, and I think it does enough on the emotional side to get you invested. I wouldn’t mind rewatching with a buddy every now and then. Even though characters like Sonic and Shadow are not accurately written as 1-to-1 as how they are in the games, idk that never really bothered me, probably because they’re at least consistent in the show itself. Despite his faults, Sonic was always uplifting in spirit, and Shadow keeping him grounded was a fun way to strengthen their relationship, S2 especially. I guess the “show is canon” aspect never bothered me, either. Even if it did, the ending brings back everything to the status quo 06-style. On its own merit, Prime was engaging to me, and I’d say it’s my favorite Sonic show despite not having seen the other TV shows in their entirety.

OMG. OK. So I've been watching a bunch of reviews of Sonic prime and not a single person I watched realized that shadow fights with rouge specifically in the grim robot battle. Rouge was specifically targeting SHADOW. Thank YOU for realizing this. It may not be too important but it definitely has to do with the relationship between shadow and rouge. Great video too 😊

@AceCardGaming

4 ай бұрын

Thank you, Glad you enjoyed it!

A massive theory going around tumblr in the sonic fandom was that Nine had captured Shadow and was using him as bait to lure Sonic to the Grim. This theory was thought of when one of the trailers for season 3 had dropped and Sonic said the line "he messes with one of us he messes with all of us" and people had pointed out how Shadow noticeably absent which made people think of that theory. And I feel like having Shadow captured would have given us more screen time with him rather than him fighting off screen in a hole for half the season. It also would've been interesting to see how Shadow interacts with Nine when Sonic isn't around. Cus throughout the show Shadows interactions with Nine boils down to "here's Sonic and Nine oh and I guess Shadow's there". Also he definitely should have had some kind of a connection to Rouge and the other characters. But overall I feel like Shadow was written really well especially compared to more modern Shadows. And Prime Shadow feels more like the original (aka not the edge lord version) version of Shadow that we got in Sa2, Sonic 06 and heros.

On the topic of Shadow, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the "PROJECT SHADOW" fan animation of Shadow's hypothetical backstory in Sonic Movie 3. It was shockingly good and heartfelt, if you ever saw it.

@AceCardGaming

4 ай бұрын

It’s definitely something I’ll be checking out!

@skylord1846

4 ай бұрын

Yeah, I just watched it a few hours ago, and it’s amazing. For a fanmade project, it’s definitely worth checking out. Easily a 10/10 in my book.

I remember thinking his voice actor was great.

@AceCardGaming

4 ай бұрын

100% agreed.

When it comes to the ghost Sonic' friends scene, I'll argue that the scene as a whole is pointless. They were not real, there was nothing they could do other than run. But I guess Sonic is dumb to the point he just forgot it. That entire scene is just a waste of time, and it only makes worse the fact that Shadow never says "our friends".

@AceCardGaming

4 ай бұрын

It’s symbolic. If that happened to you and you seen images of your family or friends, would it provoke feelings in you? Or would you simply not care and remain 100% rational. These moments are included to invoke feelings in the audience and for Shadow, they completely failed him.

@JumperTV33

4 ай бұрын

@@AceCardGamingWhat about that one scene in the season 2 finale where his ghost friends were brought back for just a moment? I’ve been thinking about that a lot, and a lot of “What if?” Scenarios that go with it.

@AceCardGaming

4 ай бұрын

@@JumperTV33 Yeah, exactly. There is no way for sure of knowing what’s really what in the shatterverse. Whether they were real or not, having Shadow dismiss them was just a miss for me. He saved Rouge in SA2 because his memory of Maria invoked a feeling in him. That’s exactly what they side-stepped here.

@andreasmeelie1889

3 ай бұрын

But, in the season finale episode of season 2. When Nine was fixing up the Prism Sonic and Shadow’s friends start coming back. But, then they get back to being ghosts when Nine feels that Sonic “betrayed” him and refuses to help. So therefore the ghosts were real.

Hey, congrats on 10k subs man. Shadow was pretty good in this, but I did not get him not having ties to Rouge either. Or any of the other main cast for that matter. Plus, it took this really weird interpretation of Sonic in order to happen. Then we find out that this is canon and takes place after Sonic Advance 3 despite the discrepancies? It doesn't make sense at all.

I always thought by how Shadow was so heavily used in the trailers he would be more prominent in the show, I actually wanted to see interactions between him and the shatter variants of the other characters.

I’m actually making a video right now of if I brought all the characters of Prime together picking up right after the third season ends, and I’m actually trying to fix the problems I found in everyone in my own writing. I’ve already made Sonic more intelligent and Ive animated Shadow and Rouge having a good talk. Plus, I’m making Shadow smile sometimes instead of being just the cold back of the room guy who just gives off the ‘stay away from me I’m brooding’ vibe. My problem though, was more in Sonic, like you talked about. He’s just a completely different person when you take a look at literally any other media. Take the Adventure era for example. Sonic doesn’t talk for the majority of the time, and even prefers there to be silence and would throw in a smirk to show you through body language that he is the coolest guy around rather than saying it fifty times. But anyways, I always love your analysis videos! I completely agree with everything you said about Shadows’ character, and we definitely need the real ultimate life form back!

I think most of the issues could be sorted by having it so sonic could pull shadow into the shatterspaces

I would like a video about Nine and his ‘Villain Arc’. But I can only hope you can see the positive traits this character has and how even his negative traits make the show better. It’s why I love the character. Sonic: “Ready to give up?” Nine: “Give up? [in despair] I can’t! 😢 [In refueled anger] 😠YOU’RE the one who put me in this position in the first place!” Nine doesn’t give up for the same reason Sonic doesn’t give up. The unstoppable force against the immovable object. And also at the end, there is a difference besides Nine being backed into a corner. Sonic APOLOGIZES!!! He finally saw what Nine meant by building a world for them. And THAT is what got through to him. In both instances he was coming over to Sonic’s side on his own before his friends came crashing in and his “Fight for your life” mode kicked in. And whe you’ve been having to fight for your life ALL your life, it’s basically your factory default at this point. I guess you can say I’ve analyzed Nine as much as you’ve analyzed Shadow. And I hate it when people just want to punch his lights out instead of taking the time to see it from his perspective.

@AceCardGaming

4 ай бұрын

Nine definitely has his positives, but there is also a lot of issues with him. For me at least. I guess it’s on me to justify them if I do that video! 😅

I would love a video on Nine's descent into villainy. I found him falling into Eggman behavior an interesting commentary on the nature of Sonic, Tails and Eggman's dynamic. I generally prefer to focus on what was done right and where the series's potential lay. An analysis on how the shatterspace variants provide commentary on the characters we didn't get to explore as their original selves would also be godsent. (How else am I to get a Knuckles Prime analysis?)

Also Omega is nowhere to be seen! (And the chaotix too)

@liamphibia

4 ай бұрын

Or Silver and Blaze, as they're no strangers to time travel and dimension-hopping.🤷🏻

Season 1: Terrible Season 2: Decent but not enough screen time Season 3: Decent but not enough screen time Wtf? Why does the show make it think Shadow hates teaming up with someone

9:45-10:06 Ian Flynn says this series takes place after Sonic Advance 3, but it’s a moot point according to him. So I think that we can place whenever we want as long it has happened after Sonic Advance 3.

@nithinshakthithiruppathi4028

4 ай бұрын

After Generations bc Orbot and Cubot.

@porobotboyxxx

4 ай бұрын

@@nithinshakthithiruppathi4028 Bingo.👍

@nithinshakthithiruppathi4028

4 ай бұрын

@@porobotboyxxx Got ur back. 😉

It's pretty depressing that even in a show that shadow was the best he ever was since 06. Sega still finds a way to just butcher him, he's still that distant, edgy hedgehog but the writers still found a way around that. What i hate most about shadow is just that after 06 he just isn't the same anymore. And no matter what Ian try's to do, Sega is still there making sure his character is absolutely terrible compared to how we saw him in... Again, 06. Every character (except shadow) was improved upon in the comics, or the games. I just want shadow done right. I want him to be at least close to how he was in *again*, 06. Prime was so close to breaking that hold Sega kept on him. But again.... Sega still wants him to be an edgy. I hope that there's a game that fixes his character completely. Makes him like... AGAIN 06. But i don't see that happening anytime soon.

Was Prime Shadow hit or mess? Yes and no. Shadow has a good character In Prime and I definitely think that he needed some more screen time in the show. Another thing is that I felt like Shadow in Prime is still a side character In Season 3. The one thing that I need to know is dose Shadow know Rouge because in the show it doesn’t really seems like Rouge doesn’t even know Shadow. I really like Shadow’s relationship with Sonic in Season 3 and I really don’t like how when Shadow sees the Sonic Grim robots and Shadow has no word or reaction when they see the Grim robot of Rouge at all and Shadow just helps Sonic fight the robots. Prime Shadow is great in Prime. Great video Ace Card Gaming)

I've only been a Sonic fan for about a year, but I have done my research lol. I like to see Shadow in Sonic Prime as a transitional phase between the Meta Era and (hopefully) a new Shadow era where he's more like his original self! Like he's learning to care again

When they first introduce him I love that Shadow commented on his shoes ‘they’re air shoes’ 😠🙄 when sonic says that Shadow skates

Prime shadow in sonic prime is the coolest version acecardgaming and I love your video!

@AceCardGaming

4 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed the video Mayra! 🙂

Prime Shadow was a hit!

@DLxxx

4 ай бұрын

He didn't have any relationships with ANYONE outside of Sonic and was barely fleshed out all (the beggining of _this_ video noted several, immediate problems in this season alone). I'm not being dismissive of you're opinion, I just don't understand where it's coming from. Is not being an edge lord really all it takes to praise a character to this degree (some even comparing it with his most well written appearances in the past)?

@devinsauls9137

4 ай бұрын

@@DLxxx Never said this was the best Shadow we got ever depicted. It's the best we have for now and he's the only one that knows what to do. The writers don't know what to do with him and I will admit that, but since he's the only one with subtly with his actions and get things done that's why he's a hit

@Kojin1104

3 ай бұрын

@@devinsauls9137 Don’t backtrack you’re right. Sonic fans just like to overthink things that are actually great. This shadow is only eclipsed by 06 Shadow and there’s allowed to be different universes so I completely agree that this is a hit for his character.

@devinsauls9137

3 ай бұрын

@@Kojin1104 Thanks for the support

@Kojin1104

3 ай бұрын

@@devinsauls9137 thanks for being a Sonic fan I can understand 👊🏾.

I thought he was good, but also agree he should of had some interactions with the other characters.

Actually I'm pretty sure he did speak to Rouge in the last episode

@AceCardGaming

2 ай бұрын

I meant the real Rouge in Green Hill.

IM THE ULTIMATE LIFE FORM I GO WHEREVER I WANT

This is my favorite version of Shadow. He is serious and cool but he does care about saving the universe.

Shadow is fine but I prefer he would be characterized from 06

I also love the ending of sonic prime and shadow is the coolest and congrats on 10,000!

I figured Shadow was distant to the Shatter Space versions of Rouge, because he knew that they were not the real Rouge, and therefore not his friend. That being said though, he should have hanged out with the others at the end.

So I have some thoughts on the characterization of Sonic and Shadow. I’d like to preface this by saying I am pretty new to the sonic fandom in general, so i’m not as attached to the older versions of the characters as some older fans might be. I’m also trying to look at this from an objective perspective. I’ll start with Sonic. When I first watched the show, I had never played any of the video games so I wasn’t familiar with Sonic’s character. So as a first time viewer, I thought he was fine. I liked the fact that he had flaws and that his actions actually had consequences. He wasn’t super interesting but I thought he was likable. However, after looking into older Sonic media, I can confidently say that Sonic Prime’s Sonic is NOT the same character as, say, Sonic in SA2 (as a loose example, again, still a little new to the franchise). I think the show would have gotten significantly less backlash if it wasn’t explicitly canon. It would be better if it was like the Movies, and it existed in its own alternate universe or something. Sonic Prime just contradicts too much from the video games in terms of continuity and Sonic’s characterization. So, on its own, Sonic in Prime is an alright character, he just clashes with his video game counterpart too much for them to be considered the same character. As for Shadow, I LOVED him in Prime. My only issue is that he got so little screen time. Shadow was the best part of the show for me. He was the most interesting character by FAR, and I would have loved to see them dive deeper into his and Sonic’s relationship. From what i’ve seen in old Sonic media, Shadow for a long time was just an edge lord with a tragic backstory; a cool magnet, but shallow in terms of characterization. However, in Prime I loved how they characterized him. His serious personality contrasted perfectly with Sonic’s energy. I wish they utilized that more. So, on its own, Sonic Prime would have been alright if it were separate from the established video game canon (as inconsistent as it already is, from what i’ve seen). Sonic’s character is fine, I’d even say decent, if it’s not compared to his video game counterpart, because those two are NOT the same whatsoever. Idk, just some thoughts from a newer fan 🤷‍♀️

Good vídeo, and definitely think more Prime character analysis are a great idea, but I also would love if you tackled more IDW(I'd kill for a Diamond Cutters analysis. Tangle, Whisper and Lanolin are a great addition to the Sonic Heroes lineup. The new villains are also so interesting too!) or even fan creations like Project Shadow(The more people know about it, the better. And your insight at how it adapts his origin would be sick!).

@AceCardGaming

4 ай бұрын

Thank you for the input. Much appreciated!

Shadow was the best part of this show. I cannot consider this show any Sonic Cannon, because Sonic is simply too dumb. It's in it's own cannon like the live-action movies.

Hi Mark! I enjoyed sonic prime season 3 and shadows portrayal quite a lot, mind if I share a theory about primes placement in the timeline? I personally think it happened sometime between forces and the IDW comics/frontiers. I always thought of sonic and shadow having their best personalities pre colours but as sonic got a little older starting with colours, he maybe started getting a little overconfident (like the teenager he is) and could never take anything truly seriously. Real people lose their ways all the time and sometimes come back better afterwards. Now I’m not trying to say the colours era writing was good (it definitely wasn’t although TBF the “Baldy McNosehair” line was the funniest thing to me when I was younger and playing colours and I did enjoy the boom tv series quite a lot bc it’s not cannon and the writers could afford to have all sorts of goofy fun with the characters). Anyway, when a bunch of the other characters started getting written badly, Shadow probably noticed the negative turn everyone’s personality’s were taking, didn’t like what he saw and started acting his ultra edgy colours era self. That trend would continue all the way until just after forces when he observed how poorly everyone else handled egg man taking over and escpecially sonics complete refusal to take anything seriously, he decided to distance himself from the others and team dark for a while (explaining rouge being with the others in prime). I think this fits perfectly with the start of prime given that he doesn’t trust sonic and seems to have no connection to rouge much at the start of prime but then at the end begins to trust him again which carries nicely into the IDW comics. Sonic underwent some character redevelopment too, seeing as that he couldn’t take anything seriously in forces and just wanted to do nothing but be egotistical and have fun at the start of sonic prime. Then by the end of prime, he probably had some sense knocked back into him, probably realized that his attitude was negatively affecting those around him shadow included, and all that let everyone else to nicely settle back into their old selves throughout the IDW comics (and frontiers in the case of the main cast) even though the writers refuse to acknowledge team dark. Maybe shadow will just take a long time to start trusting his old team again. Frontiers did a great job refurbishing the main cast and i suspect shadow, rouge, and omega will come afterwards although team dark May never be reformed which sucks. The one side guy here is Silver (my favourite character in the franchise) who bc the events of 06 were erased from the timeline leaving him with new skills and experiences that he probably lost the meaning of throughout the meta era maybe bc so many more negative events happend in his future between 06 and forces and he was a shadow of his former self as well in that game. But one day I hope for a game called Silver the Hedgehog that fleshes out the events of the colours era and explains why he lost all the characters charm he gained at the end of 06 (maybe trauma). ANYWAY that’s my headcannon which attempts to explain the bad writing of the colours era and how prime fits into the timeline. Great video again Ace Card! Proud subscriber here:)

I think we expected too much from a kids show, yeah, isn't the best sonic series (talking about the plot and writing, animation was amazing) but it's purpose was the marketing for the toys. However, I really enjoyed this analysis, thank you for this! My english is very bad, sorry for that

Here's to hoping whatever next sonic series come out they can do better at writting all the characters equally

5:04 the fact you pointed this out before the Shadow Generations trailer dropped too 😂😂

Mostly agree, but considering how iffy the characterization can be in Prime, I might actually prefer a good, Sixth Ranger-type Shadow who appears sporadically over one who gets more screen time (fewer chances to screw him up, etc.)

I feel like the main reason behind why the Prime show has been the way it is, granted this is just pure speculation on my part from what I've heard, but I feel like Sonic's and Shadow's personalities are the result of the show being written before the decision to make it canon. Plus I've heard the show is the result of the first season getting split into 3 smaller ones. Granted the aspect of the suggestions you've brought up are also likely factors, especially since apparently a more "reasonable" Shadow as only recently been made in the works, at least for he IDW staff. Side note, I'm kind of tired/not on board with Shadow constantly dropping the "Ultimate Life Form" line considering the end events of SA2, hopefully he get's reminded of that with the upcoming Generations remaster with the added Shadow Campaign. I DO have a personal placement on where I might put this show in terms of the canon. I'd put it like RIGHT before Forces as a sort of symbolic culmination of the Meta Era. Sort of a situation where Sonic has gotten too comfy in being the front runner with the rest of the cast being regulated to cheerleaders that sit in the background (which also sort of applies to Shadow). I don't know if the placement CAN work, but that's my best option, aside from just outright not counting this as canon to the game's events. Although honestly based on my same sentiment, Prime could probably be placed between TSR and Frontiers, granted that's if we ARE still counting it as canon in the same method as '06 (where it's that the events DID happen, but the memories of them are obscured aside to a small handful of characters or there are some "echoes" of them).

I want to see you do a analysis video of the 2023 Project Shadow short film!

I enjoyed season 3 but I do agree with the flaws despite it being my favorite season. I love Sonic, but, yeah, he can be improved upon. Shadow is my second favorite.😇 It would be cool for a video analysis for Sonic Prime Sonic and for Nine! EEP!🤩

The ending of the show was sh** Shadow is the highlight of the show for me He's the best character ever written and I'm disappointed that he doesn't have any screen times while we're stuck with the stupid Sonic in this show

I agree though, Shadow is hit AND miss. At least some things hit, and I'll take it over Boom Shadow anyday, but My real problem throughout this entire series is that Sonic just isn't in character. This drags his co stars, including Shadow, down. Though it did really prop up Nine, The finale didn't do Nine justice I think.

Shadow is the best written character in a show that doesn't deserve it. And let's not forget that SEGA only wants the people to remember how cool and edgy he is so they can use him like jingly-keys. This would explain why he doesn't care about Rouge at minimum while still in every other aspect seems normal. I am not expecting a ground-breaking character from a Kid's show, but it's clear from the comics that SEGA just keeps Shadow around for fanservice.

Wouldn't it make more sense to say Prime takes place some time after Unleashed, rather than after Colors, specifically? For all we know, Orbot and Cubot could have first appeared in the timeline in Prime. What we do know is that they weren't around in Unleashed, so Prime must have happened after that. Personally, I take a page from another KZread comment I saw and headcanon Prime taking place between Forces and Frontiers, as a way to bridge the writing gap lol

I’ve been looking at the comments in the videos for the recently released Sonic X Shadow Generations trailer and a lot of people say they wanna see Shadow use a gun again otherwise their disappointed. My reaction was literal slap in the face. Like seriously! He doesn’t need a gun when he can shoot energy blasts from his hands and create an explosion with his body at the epicenter. Those people are just kids who never grew up with the Shadow that existed before he got his own game.

weird to see that shadow needs a chaos emerald to Chaos control off when in 06 and his own game he does it at will just like blackdoom taught him

To be honest at least in the ending of Sonic X, we got to see what happened to Shadow after he used Chaos Control, this reminded of that, except for the follow up. All in all, I liked shadow in Prime, hit and miss, he was great in season 2, things went a bit back in season 3, I'm believing Sonic Movie 3 will be a better interpretation harking back to Shadow's SA2, Heroes and O6 days, be with modern flair.

Shadow is by far the best aspect of this show. Not only is he the most faithful character personality wise, this show being cannon and all (ugh), Prime Shadow is definitely the best interpretation we've gotten of the character in years. Unlike Sonic who ticks me off with every single word that spouts out of his annoying pie-hole and I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking that. I'm also glad you brought up the complaint that seems to pass over everyones heads. Why doesn't Shadow ONCE interact with Rouge? She's one of the people he knows the most and ontop of that, why is Rouge a major focus within Sonic's friend group? I wouldn't really place her in that position, especially given the timeline of the cannon which is just a colossal headache to talk about. The head writers negligence of any established cannon from the games should be addressed more. But NOPE! Everyone seems to just give it a pass with the "it's a kid show" argument. First of all, kids shows can have consistent and well structured stories and characters while be as entertaining as can be with actual value. Don't treat kids like they're all stupid. Second of all, this show is CANNON (supposedly, i don't buy it) which would only make sense for it to be targeted towards people who actually know these characters for who they are. But no! Cause we can't have nice things... This show brings out the ranting side of me, I'm sorry. Also, YES! I would love to see an "In depth review" from you, dwelling deep into Sonic's poor characterisation in this show. I'd watch the hell out of that.

Honestly, thinking about the series. I hear people talking about much content have but, does that mean we have been eating good, I been thinking I realized Sonic Boom was about 10 years ago. We have made steps not leaps. And it makes curious about the future. Honestly, I thought” Is the meta era over or a different era” I’m still not sure. Shadow’s a good step but remember would can always go back down the stairs.

I would like to see you do more collaboration with other SonicTubers like Chaomix, ThepjsShow, etc. I really enjoy those videos

@AceCardGaming

4 ай бұрын

I’m always down for that. Just have to align everyone’s schedules. 🙂

Everytime we get something with sonic and shadow, the only consistent thing is shadow destroying him in a fight. I feel like the fight would be better if they treated sonic like he fights in Archie and idw and make it even and believable

Hm, fair and valid points and opinions, i can understand where you’re coming from, Although, didn’t Ian Flynn admit that this Show wasn’t Canon? Anyway, i would like to see you cover what it is you think is messy with Sonic’s Character. Also, i would like to know what you think about the Relationship between the Amy Counterparts, because honestly that Relationship I feel like i i have been the most invested in, in the entire Show. Regardless, I do hope we get something better in the Future.

@AceCardGaming

4 ай бұрын

For better or worse, Ian had no choice but to confirm the show was apparently canon. But he made the obvious point that since the events of the show are effectively reset in the end, it was basically moot.

@johanstenfelt1206

4 ай бұрын

@@AceCardGaming huh, I guess I misunderstood then.

I thought the holding injured arm thing was a regular thing in anime (Anime's Bubble for example), I've seen it done a bunch of anime and other animation before, so I just accepted it as a universal anime thing

Please do character analysis videos on the Shatterverse varaints. For example, give Amy's variants their own dedicated video. Rusty Rose, Thorn Rose, and Black Rose in one video.

@AceCardGaming

4 ай бұрын

I’d love to cover Rusty Rose. She was great.

@BlackFlash09

4 ай бұрын

@@AceCardGaming Glad to hear it! My only regret is that she didn’t get an origin story. Like her being heavily injured when the Chaos Council took over. And Nine abandoning her when she called out for help.

@AceCardGaming

4 ай бұрын

She did make some interesting comments about her version of Birdy though. Enough to make me wonder about her origins.

@BlackFlash09

4 ай бұрын

@@AceCardGaming Speaking of Birdie, she’s been confirmed to be the same Flicky that was inside of E-102 Gamma. I hope she appears in more Sonic media. We need more of Amy flying on a giant bird.

Judging by amount of easter eggs to the games in this show, I'd say that the reason why Shadow is written the way he is the mandates. Creators put a lot of passion in this series, but, I guess, just like IDW Shadow with Ian Flynn those mandates is something that they couldn't, y'know circumvent. But you definitely can see, that they atleast tried. So,in result Shadow isn't like, COMPLETE asshole there.

Shadow was absolutely badass in sonic prime S3 he’s literally my favorite character his personality is perfect 🖤🖤🖤😁

I wish Shadow was in the show more. He was the best character in that show in my opinion. But then again, I'm heavily bias since Shadow is my favorite character period.

Ive heard this IS canon to the Sonic timeline. Its said its SUPPOSED to take place after Sonic Advance 3.

I justified shadows indifference to the others as him being in "crisis mode" shadow is a soldier and has the mentality of one and as far as he's concerned this is war. I get why and how it could have been better, thats just how i personally think of it.

@AceCardGaming

2 ай бұрын

If I think of Shadow in a crisis situation, I tend to think of 06. Cool, calm and collected.

@drakainarougenoir2828

2 ай бұрын

@@AceCardGaming I like to think he had his time to mourn when he first discovered the ghost hill and after that was buisness. Would have been nice to have seen a quick flashback though.

13:44 Orbot and Cubot could’ve been built before Prime. Scrapped. Then Orbot’s prices were used for that sassy bot in Unleashed. Scrapped again. And rebuilt for Colors. I know you probably ask why would he rebuild them. But my counterpoint is, why do they still exist after Colors, and to this day? I personally think aside from that, there is no reason why this show can’t take place after Advance 3. Aside from not working at all in the timeline because of Sonic. Which then again, 06, Colors, Forces, Lost World, etc.

They really hate team dark

SEGA's character development for Sonic characters has been all over the place

All of this is true, but there could also be a few other reasons. Maybe Saga is watching just how much the character is promoted as Shadow is in a lot this year. And also it’s possible that the people behind the show, didn’t want to get too close to the third film. This show ended on Jan 24 2024 and the third film is released on December 20th 2024. So maybe those are two contributing reasons as to why. In addition to that, this show was more into its action scenes and less into character relationships. It seemed to think like this: “Action scenes first and character relationships second”.

5:03 Shadow likes to roundhouse kick everybody.

i know this is a show about Sonic, but i really wish he had more to do.

they write Shadow So well But in my opinion in season 3 he gets shafted Alot Starting the fact the Grim robots beat him in a fight, threw him in a ditch where he could've just used his air shoes to fly or spin dash outta there like the writers had to condense a very fast powerful character in one area were like he could literally just leave the ditch before sonic and the others got back and the writers undermine shadow's power set Not one action set piece of him taking off his inhibitor rings or using his chaos sphere nor his chaos blast all he dose is spin dash and punch even tho he can fight but he's sonic pretty much but not shadow at times taking matters into his OWN hands when it comes to nine

I believe this show takes place between generations and forces.

4:33 Not really series long as it hasn’t been brought up since like Heroes. When talking about the actual stories at least.

So the whole interaction with Rouge is also an issue with IDW comics… aperantly there is a Sega mandate that has stated that Shadow has no friends… which in my opinion is stupid. That mandate also made Shadow completely useless in the Zombot saga for the comics… As for him showing indifference towards the other version of the characters in Sonic prime (including the robot versions) probably has to do with Shadow not considering them the same people. He was clear since season 2 that none of them were their friends and that they should focus on bringing their world back.

(Shadow) I’m am the ultimate life form

I’ve said this in previous discussions about Prime, but I think that it was a mixed bag of a show. In regards to Shadow in particular, he’s good when you look at his in character in a vacuum, or just within this show. I still think that it was a mistake to make Prime canon to the games. I get that SEGA has been trying to streamline Sonic’s very convoluted canon, but making every piece of extended media canon to the games was not the right way of doing this. This causes things like character dynamics or “why character A is not present” to be pointed out when a piece of extended media that supposedly takes place in the same world as the primary medium doesn’t acknowledge these events and developments.

I hope sonic 3 will do shadow character justice done right and written well the many things I love about shadow and why he is one of my favorite character in sonic franchise that while he seemed dark cold stern ruthless merciless callous dour tough distant aloof apathetic stoic detached indifferent standoffish dead-serious no-nonsense anti-social distant quiet And solitary person he is actually a deep well-rounded multifaceted and complex individual who is more than just edgelord loner hardcore badass cold fish and male Ice queen he is actually caring selfless understanding and human (no pun intended) while he doe appear to be a person with heart of ice and stone but in fact he has heart of gold even when he appeared to be lone wolf cynic realist grouch pragmatist and misanthrope that mainly due his backstory and past life due his only friend Maria the granddaughter of Gerald robontnik and cousin of dr eggman was killed by human soldiers during ark incident which explains his initial contempt for humanity

EVEN THE VOICE ACTOR FOR SHADOW IN PRIME IS ATTRACTIVE! OMG!!😳😳😳

07:57 Sonic thought Shadow was already dead, he says it in chapter 3

@AceCardGaming

4 ай бұрын

Yet didn’t spare a thought or get a single line thinking about him before he finds him. That changes nothing for me.

Sonic owes Shadow big time.

TBH the dynamic between Sonic and Shadow in Sonic Prime, is like Goku and Vegeta in Dragon Ball Super, don't get me wrong I enjoy both shows and think their decent but Shadow's character in Sonic Prime I felt hasn't been seen like this since the end of Shadow the Hedgehog, I hope we get to see this version of the character in the games and the IDW comics (which Him, Rouge and Omega may get a mini series to make 2024 the Year of Shadow akin to how Nintendo made 2013 the Year of Luigi,) I enjoy Ian Hanlin's voice of Shadow making sound alot like Keanu Reeves. I got a feeling We're going to see alot of Shadow this year with Sonic Movie 3 on the horizon and I hope fans of Shadow are looking forward to it.

Unrelated to Shadow for a moment: Anyone else seriously annoyed Sonic reacts to both Chaos and Grim Sonic like they're something alien? Depending on when the show takes place, he's already seen maybe a half dozen Sonic bots, a Knuckles bot, a Tails doll, and even an Eggman robot. He should really react with some snark about that being a dead horse of a tactic, by this point. Is neat that Grim Sonic has the Emperor Metallix paint job, at least. That's something.

I didn't like Shadow in Prime. He keeps bickering and fighting with Sonic, but with their history and Shadow's development, they should be long past that point. And as you said, he should care, which he doesn't.

When I think about it, there is a clear disconnect between Shadow and literally anyone and anything that is not Sonic. It gets to the point that I'm pretty darn sure that the show written with Shadow in mind and that he was a late addition well after the story was developed. Take for example the Ultimate lifeforms lines, that shit doesn't not mean anything as it has zero relevance to the actual story or how he gets shoved out of the story for most of the series. I frankly think it would've been better if they simply did not have him in the show altogether if they could not integrate in him into the story proper.

I laughed when he said that "Sonic has sh*t for brains" in sonic prime. But isn't that him in the whole series.

@AceCardGaming

3 ай бұрын

I’m pretty much every other iteration besides the Meta era and maybe the movies, Sonic is smart. He’s very gung-ho, there’s no denying that, but he’s certainly not an idiot.

@jadestewart6014

3 ай бұрын

@@AceCardGaming I was just rewatching the last episode of Sonic Prime and here's another thing to add to your evidence of Sonic being arrogant and overlooking Shadow. Towards the end of the last episode, when Rusty Rose puts Sonic onto Birdy, he doesn't mention how Shadow needs a ride to get back home too or even looks at him.

Shadow was/is a *f@&king* G-Unit in this show.👌

4:16-4:23 QUIT THE CAP SONIC!

Nine tells nine tails, "Nine tails."

2nd comment here. When it comes to the whole Shadow not having friends here, I don't think it's fair to blame Sega here, because if that was the cause then why was Shadow in the murder of the Sonic the Hedgehog interact with his friends. A game that is canon and approved by SEGA

@AceCardGaming

4 ай бұрын

Just one of two possibilities. 🙂

@sb14andmore50

19 күн бұрын

I think another thing to point out is that before Ian Flynn took over as the new writer for the games, the story was inconsistent, I've seen people argue that Frontiers has "too many references" which is a stupid argument, it's clear now that the Chao are descendants of the Ancients cuz they look like different versions of Chaos(specifically Chaos 0)especially if you've watched the Knuckles Prologue short on the official Sonic KZread channel, Sonic references Mystic Ruins when going towards the waterfall that leads to Giganto(after the final puzzle on Kronos Island)Knuckles comments that the ruins on Ares Island look like they came from Angel Island, he even comments that the Ancients' fate reminds him that he's the last Echidna, there's plenty of references on Chaos Island, but on a story POV, Tails comments that the weapon the Ancients used on The End was on par with Dark Gaia, Tails comments on the "mechanical parts collection" minigame that it reminds him of how useless he was when Infinite attacked, and when Tails was feeling unsure of himself, Sonic reminds him that Tails was a Hero in more ways than one, he references SA1 and Lost World in that instance, Ian Flynn is trying his best to bring back consistency to the series