I wish these people would work for Fender and produce probably the most accurate reissues ever made. That way it would be a genuine article without cheating anyone and enjoyed by someone who really knows what it is.

A collector told me recently that there are more vintage strats and les pauls on the market now than were ever originally made. Even if 100% of the originals survived, which anyone with common sense knows isn't the case, there are to many on the market now. Naturally, this means there are many fakes floating around. Some of them, impossible to distinguish from the real thing.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Totally and that's diluting the market and making it pretty scary to invest in a vintage guitar.

@justinrayguitars6024

2 жыл бұрын

I would certainly agree with that. I have heard the same about the classic car market as well.

@FloridaTwoWheelAdventures

Жыл бұрын

Well to be fair, it’s probably not “impossible” to determine if it’s fake. If geologists can carbon date a rock and tell us it’s 65,000,000 years old then certainly someone can determine if paint on a body is 60 years old! So yes, it’s cost prohibitive, but probably not impossible. 🤣

@pharmerdavid1432

Жыл бұрын

@@FloridaTwoWheelAdventures carbon dating is notoriously inaccurate!

@criskatan

Жыл бұрын

@@pharmerdavid1432 Yeah. And what's really funny is that you can go to Hawaii and take a piece of basalt from a recent lava flow, then send it to a lab to be tested and the findings will date it to about 60 million years old using the potassium argon method. Totally useless/fake science.

This is absolutely incredible…. I think it’s very wrong (and absolutely criminal) if someone tries to pass this off as a vintage strat. But if someone is buying this to keep as theirs and make awesome music with it… or to replace the one that they let get away so many years ago (like I did) then I see nothing wrong with it

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

It only when they get passed off and someone gets robbed that it annoys me!

@callejarvholm

Жыл бұрын

Agreed! I’d love to own one of these

@sonicd57

Жыл бұрын

Reissues today are “copied” from the past anyway. Reissues from the big brands, F custom shop, G Murphy lab, etc. are made to be reproductions of originals. These guys are just doing it more accurately than the brands. They are able to because they don’t have to contend with corporate financial accounting principles (cost/revenue/profit) and are building with extremely obsessive attention to detail. I wouldn’t say that these are “fakes” that they’re building. Their website doesn’t say that word at all. I think they are true artists and experts at their craft. I totally agree though… it’s only when they are sold as the real thing that it is wrong, unethical, and illegal. But I’m glad these guys are doing this because it’s the closest I would probably ever be able to afford to the genuine thing, and it’s likely 99.9% accurate for a fraction of the cost. It makes owning a “vintage” instrument accessible for many of us. Think about it… what’s the difference if it was made in the original factory 60 years ago, or by these guys now, if it’s so close that they are hard to tell the difference. It’s essentially the same instrument, just made with different hands.

This video rocks and dude you've got such a nice and descriptive way of making videos and I prefer listening to you and your visual aids over other guitar channels. Love this

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much that's really kind and much appreciated my friend. 🙏

Honestly, I think that's pretty cool generally speaking. I can't say I get excited about the accuracy of "router chatter" or whatever it is, but I find folks like this (and there are lots of them out there) that get super-involved in the finer details interesting at the least. I guess the thing I'm most curious about is not, "Is this guy running a counterfeit vintage guitar operation," but "does the actual product measure up?" Are these guitars really so well done with all the details (outside of anything obvious like a non-Fender logo) so accurately replicated that someone knowledgable about vintage Fenders doing a detailed examination would be fooled? All that being said, I've never felt like vintage Fenders are that hard to recreate. There's enough information, old parts and resources out there that a regular guy like you or me might be able to build something that could fool lots of folks outside of knowledgable dealers/collectors. Not saying that to excuse the practice, more acknowledging the reality of the situation.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

You are totally right. It is easy ţo pass off a fender as they were always built to be stock and swappable. Its the little details that are the tell.

As long as there is a demand, anything and everything can be copied. In this age of 3D scanning, printing and CNC manufacturing coupled with greed and enough $$ you can even go to space, so why can’t every guitar player have a 63 Strat and a 59 LP.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Pretty much everyone can. The Chinese copies are nowhere near this accurate but would easily fool Joe public. We can all have vintage gear!

@t0rkel

Жыл бұрын

the only reason this isnt possible is due to Fender and Gibson protecting their trademarks aggressively and overpricing all of their own variants of vintage copies.

I would like to have one of those copies just as a player for myself. I wouldn't mind stamping it fake as well. If you go to those lengths there would be a market for that even if it was stamped fake 3/8" deep.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

There is definitely a "market" for these type of things. So long as you keep them for yourself and don't try to pass them off there is no harm done. It is the others that worry me.

@cojohnso80

2 жыл бұрын

@@Chinaguitarsceptic I am of the same opinion. It is when there is potential for someone less experienced to get burned it makes me turn red. I would happily play a replica as long as it is stamped fake on body and neck in a way that would be difficult to delete.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Totally

I would much rather one of those than a mass produced guitar. Honestly incredible

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

They are so accurate. Fine for personal use but a different story if you try to pass them off.

@SionynJones

2 жыл бұрын

That's what a stratocaster is meant to be Leo optimised it for that very purpose.

@PorchBass

2 жыл бұрын

I was there thinking, 'Do they do basses too?'

@makmcqueen8634

2 жыл бұрын

@@PorchBass If he is still doing them at all he did bases. He is an old boy now and a great guitar player.

@indiedavecomix3882

Жыл бұрын

@@Chinaguitarsceptic It's a bit of a double edged sword, isn't it? On one hand, if I had the money and just wanted to purchase a period correct guitar for the experience of playing what was available in 1955, I think that would be amazing. However, I absolutely agree that such a thing could also be abused by unscrupulous resellers. I don't see how the experience would be diminished by a mark inside the guitar that just reads "reproduction", though.

I wouldn't say this shows how easy it is to fake a pre CBS Strat but rather just how difficult it would be. It will be interesting upon closer examination to see just how well the "Monterey" Strat will stack up to this kind of detailed scrutiny.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you that was my point here. Not how easy to build, but how easy to get hold of a fake.

@criskatan

Жыл бұрын

@@Chinaguitarsceptic If it's reproduced down to the finest detail then why is it fake. To me it's the real thing!!

@hq72hotmale

10 ай бұрын

Just a different pair off hands at the end off the day people also forget alot off random things were also done to these vintage guitars at the time that you had to be that actual person to even replicate those minor details just because a guitar neck has no production stamp does not mean it is not original I have a CBS real 69neck with the green production ink smudge but no stamp serial ever appeared on this neck does that now mean it's a fake really ...😅 Anyway if all parts are equal or better the wood was sourced from the same places at least whatever can still be obtained then the process is carried out roughly the same but I detect even better or more consistently then the past just play it for 50 years or so what do you reckon you will have then you think all things equal the result would be that much different you think vintage reissues were tooled off so many different examples or their one considered perfect example they copy millions off times over man these days I'am more then happy with Fenders Mexican guitar line in the 80's we paid luthiers the grand total off $1000.00 AUD to produce a stratocaster or telecaster with a slab or vernier board neck with better finish and as good if not better parts then some off the past offerings I have the originals I also have reissues from the past and current series and the early jap.jv series too in the end each guitar is its own individual piece off wood if all perfect worlds collide at once you have what you want and given time and ageing those nuisances you love about freak guitars you lust over might just be yours too all those so called fake guitars are worthy off the status off genuine fake but fake isn't always bad it's just how your mind sees it which makes it all that much harder for you to deal with have you ever bought the top end offerings just to find out a production model blew away what you had so lusted over to start with ....it happens

Another great and informative video. Keep up the great work!

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Cheers brother

I knew a guy in Atlanta 25 years ago who could copy/fake almost anything right down to making it look aged. He was so good that he fooled antique dealers again and again just for fun. Fortunately he refused to sell his fakes but he could have made a fortune if he had wanted to do so.

@tombradley4844

10 ай бұрын

The problem arises when those replicas leave that guys possesion (he cant live forever), that's where all this stuff gets murky and people end up being fleeced.

Hate to hear you having health problems bud ill be praying for you youve taught me so much about spotting fakes!

Thank you very much for your detailed explanation of what is possible regarding faked guitars, well done. There was a time when I considered buying an old Porsche 911, collect vintage watches and have a vintage Strat. The Porsches have grown out of my financial abilities, watches are prone to fake as much as vintage guitars are (as are the Porsches anyway). So I bought a fantastic Custom Shop Strat, forgot about the Porsches and the watches and can now live happy ever after ;-)

Thanks for the warning. The fact that they mark the neck end, and other hidden details, goes over the line of replica and into counterfeit. Even if they don't actually put a Fender decal on, someone else could easily do this. I think these would probably even fool many dealers.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Me too

Don't know what to think, but it makes you wonder what's really being sold from low end and expensive brands... If you're not there watching it from start to finish and walking away..how do you know 🤔

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly. It is very interesting to see how well they can copy to period correct specs.

In another life I would of loved being a counterfeiter. Great work by the Spanish team. It’s difficult to know who to blame or congratulate on this. Fender for making great guitars back in the day or consumer need for wanting something that is maybe no better than what’s available today via custom shop. Ironically the first guitar’s Fender displayed at NAMM when they started relicing tricked everyone which sparked the whole thing off. My final word is Provenance.

Very informative. Thanks for the time end effort. Take care.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you

If I was a guitar collector, I would be worried, but the trick is not to be a guitar collector. Just get a guitar you love.. and play living crap out of it and make as much music with it as possible. Instruments are not investments. Your time practicing and learning the instrument is the investment.

@santrixhimself3679

2 жыл бұрын

exactly

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Totally spot on brother

Makes me want to buy one just to see how close they are. I got a OG 59 strat that I inherited & there’s just something special that Pre CBS guitars have that don’t seem to be easily replicated. With companies that produce things this spec accurate I wonder how many folks are buying an instrument from them & then reselling to some poor person on reverb thinking that they’re a original. I don’t like the idea of people making money by scamming people like this

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

They get very close

Interesting topic Mike they take it to the next level by stamping the heels and wood selection as well,what do they sell these copies for? hope you and family are doing well ,Cheers!

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Cheers bro. I think they go for 5k around that.

Great video Mike! God bless and rock on 👍😎🎸

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks brother. 😊

It would seem that this sort of thing was inevitable. Only 2 thoughts: ethically, they should .permanently mark the guitar as a copy( kind of an ugly word) or as a tribute( sounds nicer )in some hidden location, like in the neck pocket. Still looks and plays great. Also, if these are so good as they say, I could imagine folks collecting them intentionally. Second thought: from a market point of view, a buyer could favor anything which drives down the price of a genuine Strat. As for sellers, the act of attempting to sell things is always fraught with risks from forces beyond their control. Unfortunate, but true. Tough question. Great video!

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you. I worry about the con artists who are out there passing these off as real and making a killing.

I remember being very exited about Nacho's work. Every detail of those blackgaurds.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Indeed

this is awesome and scary all at once!!.. is there any way to tell the difference between one of these and an early 60's strat? also what is the cost of something like this just curious?? What are your thoughts on this? Also I loved the chibson videos... I built one myself using some of the tips from your vids.. I already have an authentic 50's style les paul standard but it's totally a case queen that I am keeping bone stock. I have zero intention of trying to flip the chibson or sell it as authentic more or less I wanted something I could tinker with not worry too much about if I screwed up. So with the chibson i basically expanded my knowledge and confidence of guitar wiring, pick up swaps, tuner swaps (had to fill the O.G. holes with toothpicks, glue and redrill for the new ones that was scary) and there was no way I was going to be doing that stuff to my gibson. Also too it's a quilt top iguana burst finish to order something like that from gibson or reverb was gonna set me back north of $5K which I def don't have... yes I could have probably found a nice used gibson brand Lp studio or higher end epi paul but I wanted something stunning that i don't really have to worry about it hanging out on a stand within playing reach of my desk. I've got a dog and I'm clumsy lol. Thanks for all the content love the vids!! Hope you're on the mend soon!

Another thing to consider would they come with an old guitar case and case candy. Probably not. Without all the bells and whistles you'd leave them alone if your a collector.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

They might?

I built a Broadcaster like that, but I do things like no paint in the neck cavity and on the neck heal. I’ve got ideas that improve them and prefer one piece bodies, etc.

I know a few things about these guitars. As the website says, they are extremely accurate. More accurate than anything you can get from the Fender Custom Shop. The price of these is about the same as a Masterbuilt Custom shop Fender. The thing that keeps these from being passed off as originals is the electronics. Pickups, pots, switch, ect are modern. If Ed Roman is to be believed there's fake vintage pickups, pots, and switches floating around out there. He said he personally witnessed a factory making fake vintage Stratocasters down to the last detail. Including electronics. There are probably more fake vintage guitars on the market than actual real vintage guitars. Nowadays the only way to know if a guitar is truly original is to have first hand knowledge of where that guitar has been since it left the store, up until now.

I’ve come across a few fakes on Reverb that were fairly easy to spot just based off of wood grain not looking right & the tendency for pick guards to shrink or warp on old strats. But now it makes me wonder just how many are out there

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Indeed it's scary

Wow. This is pretty scary!! Great video 😊

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Very, considering...

How great would it be to get a Fender with hard-polished rosewood and nut height filed correctly?

Whew, I have mixed feelings about these. On one hand, it looks like the quality of the work is incredible, and may be more accurate/period-correct than any modern Fender reissue. From that standpoint, I think these guitars are very cool, though it’s hard to imagine they’d be much less expensive than a genuine vintage strat with all the painstaking detail put into creating them. On the other hand, along with the question of “can we do it?”, there’s a question of “should we do it?” If these guitars really are accurate down to every last detail, there is nothing to distinguish them from the genuine article once they’re sold, and that is a big problem. Even if they’re sold to an ethical buyer with no intention of fooling anyone, what happens if the guitar is re-sold, or that buyer passes away and the knowledge of its origins is lost? Building such a perfect copy with nothing to permanently differentiate it is, quite simply, counterfeiting, and that fact is not changed by whether they’re made to deceive or made to just be a kickass custom guitar for one owner. Once these guitars find their way onto the open market, it’s all but guaranteed they’ll eventually be sold as vintage guitars, because nobody will be able to tell the difference.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Oh yes indeed. I think there's a lot of it about! 🤔

@IvanXman

2 жыл бұрын

That's why I never understood all the hype about "vintage" guitars. To me, all guitars are so individual, even if you take 2 strats from the same factory of the same period/year/season and the same spec - they will still be different as two individual people. To me, if the instrument speaks to you - it doesn't matter if that's a "vintage" or modern one - regardless, it will become "vintage" with years anyways. If you can abstract from all this "vintage"/"custom shop" hype and just try to play/listen - you can find an amazing guitar on budget that would sound great. My point is, not all "vintage"/"custom shop" guitars are necessarily great or better than modern ones. This is all about hype, IMHO. I used to play custom shop strats and not all of them play like a dream.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Perfect comment! I totally agree 👍

@benallmark9671

2 жыл бұрын

How much are they charging for a top of the line Stratocaster ?

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

From 5k upwards

Did you link the maker in the video? Did I miss it?

I wouldn`t say it`s "easy" at all & I`m sure not cheap either! I love Craftsmen, craftsmanship & ingenuity.

Yes I buy one for myself and not pass it off. Just to have one of these old style ones are nice and they feel so different. If I made one I’d make it close to that style but not the same.

Thanks for highlighting this. I have no issue with trying to replicate the "vibe" and quality of a vintage instrument, but if I could afford to commission one of these "Strats", I'd insist on it being clearly marked as a replica in some way that couldn't be removed. Otherwise, it would be a scammer's dream. I'm lucky to have been quick enough off the mark to nab one of the original Tone Fox Elcasters - a fantastic "aged and retro" T-style. The crucial thing is that it doesn't try to pass itself off as something which it isn't - instead, it's a modern re-imagining of what might have been, complete with P-90s and Ton Fuchs/Tone Fox's own headstock design.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Good on you.

I’d be ok with it if they put a tiny but identifiable mark somewhere on the guitar and neck, where you can’t see it unless you know where to look at, so it could never be confused with an original, and maybe putting something else on the headstock instead of Fender. I guess there’d still be an issue with the headstock shape.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

I totally agree with you. 👍

@Larry_Mott

2 жыл бұрын

I'd order one saying "Tender" in the original Fender font :)

Hey my friend thank u for posting this video for all of us gutiar geeks.I was wondering if u could tell me the name of Luther who makes these it would b appreciated well thank u for all your research and hard work I hope your ok and wish u well

I live in Spain, and know of 2 sources of ' Custom reproduction' guitars. Looking at the adds(1 company are based Near Granada) the quality looks good. But, I guess it depends what you're looking for? Pretty sure their guitars play, feel and sound ok. Some Chibsons and Chenders do..i will check these company profiles put a little closer! Interesting video!😁

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you I'm glad you enjoyed it. I'd be very interested in what you find out my friend.

Another great video, thanks

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much my friend

Hmmm it seems okay to me as long as they are not trying to trick someone into paying for what they believe is a pre-CBS guitar. It's the money of the client and a custom order so ... I guess anyone should be able to do whatever they want really. Looks like that shop does great work.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

The shop does very good work and it concerns me how easy unscrupulous fraudsters could pass these off as real.

Picasso once said that if he came across a fake of his work that he really liked, that he'd happily sign it himself. I suspect these cost something in the region of what a pre-CBS Strat would cost anyway(?) It comes down to how much respect you have for objects representing wealth. Personally, I'd invest in gold & silver ingots and buy guitars I liked to play and art I like to look at, not what stuff is worth when/if I sell it.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

I don't mind the idea other than the potential to defraud people

It’s been going on since the 1980’s. I met a guy who worked for a certain infamous northern England guitar shop and he said he was rebuilding and faking vintage Fenders in the late 80’s. He told me about putting bodies shrink wrap then into a freezer then letting them dry out in the sun to get paint crazing. Dipping exposed wood parts in cold tea. This was when a 62 Strat was £3.5k on the new vintage market. Nowadays, I imagine greed is a even bigger incentive. Also where are all the modded guitars like Dave Murray of Iron Maidens 57. The only Fenders you see used with intact period mods tend to be JV & SQ serial Squiers. But I bet as they increase in value, those modded guitars disappear.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Fender guitars were always an off the shelf brand intended to be able to swap out parts and fit anything. I wonder how they got so valuable?

@keiranbradley3238

10 ай бұрын

I get what you mean but a Fender Tele/Strat back when they where first coming out where not cheap guitars by any means. Leo was a great innovator in that he designed those guitars to be made assembly line fashion by "unskilled" workers instead of the Gibson old school old world way of crafting instruments by very skilled craftsmen. I believe if you adjust for today's prices a Strat or Tele would be around £3400-£3600, so that's not cheap!. Love the content, Peace.

It's always been easy for talented people to do this. I've seen it done in the 80's personally by a very talented luthier outside of Boston. I wanted it because it was so nice but couldn't afford it. The person who did it wouldn't do this now BTW and I also knew a dealer sourcing real ones who didn't like this guy because he make a fake or 2 and I can't blame him for that.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Dealers would literally not know the difference. These are so accurate.

Honestly, sounds like Fender should just hire these guys

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Indeed

The devils is in the details. The hardest parts to make are the tuners - getting the exact Kluson Deluxe font stamped across the casing, and also the Fender Pat. pending on the bridge saddles.

@deepinder381

Жыл бұрын

I found a whole heap of old kluson tuners in Denmark St at the luthier in a basement - these were great as the dust and grime accumulated at the side was still there. My '61 Strat had would you believe chrome plated tulip head no name. That was the same shop which has Steve Hillage's strat on the cover of Motivation Radio up for sale at £600!

Brilliant video 👍 ✌️

As crazy as it sounds, I prefer new guitars. I'm a player and I just prefer to have a guitar that works. The problem with vintage guitars, as I learned as a studio owner, is that nothing can be done to them without tanking their value. People would come into my studio with some crazy $50,000 vintage guitar and if it needed better shielding then too bad; if it needed its pots replaced then too bad. I also like the fact that money that could be used to drive up the price of new guitars is being funnelled into vintage and relic guitars. Thanks guys!

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Great points. At the end of the day a guitar is a guitar and a tool for making music

Ever notice that if a well known Luthier builds a partscaster it's a "custom built Strat", but if a regular bloke builds one, it's a "partscaster" or "fake"?

Hello hope this finds you well and content thank you so very much for responding I don't subscribe to a lot of channels here on KZread but I have a few and hardly ever does someone take the time out to respond back to their viewers I know it's very time-consuming for you with everything else you have going on but it makes us little people feel special and you are the only one that has at least responded back to every comment I've ever left not just that but your content is why I have become a subscriber I enjoy and find your content very informative and interesting and despite your speech you are still very able to be understood at least by me if you don't mind me saying so I hope it doesn't take a lot of effort for you to speak sometimes it seems like it does and I've noticed in some of your videos you look very tired I'm sure it takes a lot out of you but look at what all you do I have a lot of respect for you because of that thank you so very much my prayers will continue to be with you God bless

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much. It is tricky sometimes but I love making videos for my amazing community.

Having thought about this more, I think there are a couple of “tells” that a good, experienced dealer/appraiser would notice that a layperson might not. Some things that, as detailed as this builder seems to be, may not actually be able convincingly reproduce…..

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

I'd love to know what a I really couldn't tell.

@trushack

2 жыл бұрын

@@Chinaguitarsceptic Have you ever smelled a vintage guitar? :)

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

@@trushack ah I see!

@indiefilmandmusic

2 жыл бұрын

@@trushack I've got a '59 ES-175. It smells like an old saddle. With a hint of tobacco.

@watunyawatunya3959

2 жыл бұрын

@@trushack the mothball, old peoples home smell

I'm entire HAPPY with the idea of this manufacturer, as long as it says, "Fakecaster" on the headstock, hahaha!

I've seen this guys site before. honestly, as long as it's disclosed that the guitars are replicas there shouldn't be any problem with what he's doing

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

But I don't think his customers will disclose it, that's the worry

It would hurt if I ended up parting with hard earned cash for a fake. But they do exist and we buy guitars for the way they feel play and sound. If I was happy with what I had in my hands I wouldn’t care if it was faked, I’d just father not know it was fake lol. Great video, new sub from me.

Yeah, this is why I don’t get too picky with my guitars. A new squier is fine by me. It’s about playing for me and it sounding good. Not trying to be cool or make money. Cheers.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Love that approach mate. 👏

A story that has been burned and buried... back in around ‘05 at the height of the last vintage guitar bubble, a “55 Strat” was sent to George Gruhn for authenticity. It was a complete reproduction body and neck, but all th parts were 55’s. He signed off on it’s originality. I’d bet at least 50% of the “vintage” Fender Stratocaster and Telecaster guitars on the market are reproduction. Especially the custom colors.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

That is scary!

I come from Spain kan you please tell me who and where is this Luthier?I am strat collector and I have par original pre cbs instruments and that this notice wake my interes, because i need restorations and i think... maybe this peolpe kann do it right... Thanks!

I would love to buy parts from this place, I have a 1963 and n1964 strat. I was only able to pick these guitar up because they been monkeyed around with. Refinished, routed, destroyed pickguard, replaced saddles. I already paid an arm and a leg just to get the period correct pickups, now all I need is the saddles, pickguard and decal to bring it back as close to original. The bodies were already sent to Lay's to be redone.

Love the disclaimer! My currently soft, monotone voice due to a thyroid lobectomy is hard to deal with and I'm not putting out videos! Love the detail on these guitars, but why? These are going to lead to more fakes. Buyer beware.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

So sorry to hear your having difficulties too brother. I hope you are well soon. Yes indeed buyer beware!

Fender is all about buying other companies such as Jackson, Charvel,and ect. Players have to get the best bang for their buck, and I don't know if Fender is it anymore with so many boutique builders. However I myself wouldn't buy a counterfeit they need their own logo.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Fender are great in my mind as they have good guitars in every price point

Amazing how far it is possible to go with copying these instruments. I wonder what do they actually sound like. Do they claim that they make pickups with pre-CBS specs, too? That being said, I remain super-happy with my (not-vintage) Stratocasters.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Me too mate

Reissues today are “copied” from the past anyway. Reissues from the big brands, F custom shop, G Murphy lab, etc. are made to be reproductions of originals. These guys are just doing it more accurately than the brands. They are able to because they don’t have to contend with corporate financial accounting principles (cost/revenue/profit) and are building with extremely obsessive attention to detail. I wouldn’t say that these are “fakes” that they’re building. Their website doesn’t say that word at all. I think they are true artists and experts at their craft. I totally agree though… it’s only when they are sold as the real thing that it is wrong, unethical, and illegal. But I’m glad these guys are doing this because it’s the closest I would probably ever be able to afford to the genuine thing, and it’s likely 99.9% accurate for a fraction of the cost. It makes owning a “vintage” instrument accessible for many of us. Think about it… what’s the difference if it was made in the original factory 60 years ago, or by these guys now, if it’s so close that they are hard to tell the difference. It’s essentially the same instrument, just made with different hands.

Did you had the chance to try those? I’ve seen their website and talked to them

I don't like the fact that you can have one of these made, turn around & probably pass it off as an original, I'd imagine they are quite expensive (maybe even much more expensive than a custom shop relic guitar) but you can probably still double or triple your money if you sold one to someone expecting to pay for an original. That being said...I'd like one & would take one of these over any custom shop Fender. Great video mate!

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

For sure my friend.

With all the talk of pre-CBS guitars being THE Fenders to have, I have to assume they are actually better instruments than any since. If that is the case, then these guys should advertise as such and price their product to be competitive with what Fender offers today. I think they would quickly take a chunk of Fender's market share.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Personally I think it's all mojo. I think the current ultra line is great and way more refined.

I’ve had a 1968 Strat for many years that I paid $200 USD for. I’ve had a refret, it plays and sounds great. It’s all stock except for the frets but cosmetically it’s beat. The paint was sanded off by a previous owner and the finish on the back of the neck is worn off. In its current condition it’s worth around $7,000 USD. It’s my all time favorite guitar but I wouldn’t pay that for it. I also have a 1998 era 1962 American Vintage Reissue Strat which I paid $1,200 for and from what I’ve seen is worth around $2,000 now. As much as I like the 68 no way would I give my 62 AVR and $5,000 for it. The guitars Fender makes today are as consistently good as anything they ever made. Take it from someone who owns both. Vintage guitars are way over priced and when old geezers like me are gone the value will drop because young people won’t feel the connection. I’ve played made in Mexico Strats and Teles that are quality instruments as well.

I think that's pretty epic to put that much time and effort on those replicas. Can you pass those on as real deal, dont know, would have to see one in person. Would i buy one? No, price is most likely not too far from vintage strat if you can accept lets say body refin and one or 2 rewound pickups. Real deal will be better investment unless you are able to pass it on as a real deal, but that's criminal. I the next video buy one and try to sell that via Gruhn guitars :D

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

You're totally right it's criminal to sell as the real thing

Interesting...if they are putting fender decals on them then thats not good.. and its probably illegal. Do you know what the cost of one of these would be ?

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

They are and 5k I believe

I would be okay with this, but this may be another way to fake the Hendrix Monterey Strat. This luthier is obviously amazing at what he does. The word REPLICA should be burned into the wood under the pickups and under the access panel on the back. The weird thing is this would cost a lot of money to do for a replica. Scamming simply has to be the logic behind it.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly!

Awesome great show

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Thx bro

Fascinating. Just goes to show if you can make it you can fake it.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Totally mate.

I do the same thing but in lefty

Can they replicate the smell, too?

I don't know if I'd call faking a pre-CBS strat "easy". Sounds like it took a huge amount of craft and attention to detail. I too have mixed feelings. Sure like to try one out though.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

These guys put detail and effort over and above. It only when they get passed off and someone gets robbed that it annoys me!

Im all for it if the price is right!

What’s the company in question?.. I’d like to check them out

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

I won't promote them buddy but you can do the same search as I did

Y'all going thru all this and my friend has an original 64 pre sitting in his house rotting away with a twisting neck, a worn out fret board, ruined frets, and not being played or repaired. He bought it for 150 dollars in high school with original case and a peavy classic two 12 combo. It will probably go to his kin and be sold or lost and forgotten. He once had someone look at fixing it but they knew he couldn't afford it and told him it was worth 13k and tried to buy it for 5k cash. This was 20 years ago and its still sitting there.

Your voice is perfect

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you.

TBH, I have tried Pre-CBS Fenders. Owned a 1964 Jazzmaster and tried friends' vintage Fenders. As a rule of thumb, not all vintage Fenders sound good. If you are a collector, go for them, but these fakes are a new threat to your hobby. You might get burned. If you don't subscribe to the "Vintage is better" mindset, then good for you.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Good advice. Find a guitar you love and enjoy it no matter what it is

There is clearly a demand for this level of vintage detail and as long as Fender isn't offering it, I think it's completely fine for someone else to offer it. However, I do not think it's okay to use Fenders name on the headstock. Not saying this company does that, but if they do that's not good. But if I was the owner and CEO of Fender, I'd hire them all and keep making those vintage beauties 😁

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Definitely no OK to use the brand on the headstock

Makes you wonder if Fender are overcharging for the current crop of "Vintage Reissue" and "Custom shop" guitars?

@Chinaguitarsceptic

Жыл бұрын

Yes

Wonder if the monterey strat came there. Cloning aged replicas to that precision, spells trouble. These fakes could be sold for millions. All thats missing is a link to get replica, aged certification & photos etc. to back up the guitars story.?

I love the attention to detail but once they put that fender decal on it's criminal...and quite different then the average "waterslide on a all parts neck" type of thing...the big difference being $20,000 at the end cause it's inevitable be it theft, death and resale, etc that it will get sold at some point and someone will be robbed of a whole lot of money....at the end of the day it's wood cut and put together and with proper measurements anything can be replicated...I'm interested to know what these go for...has to be in the CS range or higher...it's funny cause I'm doing research on transition period starts and was on his website a few days ago...crazy your video popped up now lol....these guys clearly love pre cbs strays and the workmanship is on another level, just sucks they're not using it to brand their own guitars...could make a killing selling their own stuff vs fake fenders

I've always wanted a 1968 blonde/maple large headstock strat (Jimi at Woodstock), but I'll be damned if I'll pay what the Fender Custom Shop wants. There's one on Reverb right now for 75k!!!!! I'd love to have a copy and wouldn't mind if it had 'NOT A FENDER' engraved in the neck heel.

Like many people say, I have mixed feelings, but can't see any reasons to be especially upset about it. The problem comes if You try to sell it as a real deal. Looks like proper work and the only thing I would do if I built them/ordered one, was to put a mark on it, somewhere hidden: "A copy of guitar X, proudly made by the Company X 2019" or something like that.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

I would call it guitar x too!

There would actually be a market for these for example Dave Murray wants to take his kossoff strat out on the road, but doesn't want to take the original. Or keef wants to take micawber without taking micawber.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

I guess

'Eternal' guitars of Chichester make beautiful recreations. Gladly, they won't put 'Fender' on the headstock, and Dave Walsh SWEATED to design the perfect Fender-style 'Eternal' script logo. It is kinda scary. Just as noxious is the trend of knocking up 90's or early 2000 clones. I know a particular nobjockey (again in Chichester) that makes foul use of a stash of backplates and logos. Luckily he is out of business right now and on the sex-offenders register, but I'll name and shame should he ever stick his head up. Great video as ever Mike! looking and sounding great bud. You just plough on mate. You got good things to offer the world of guitars.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Love to visit them. Maybe you can suggest this?

@blacktoothfox677

2 жыл бұрын

@@Chinaguitarsceptic I would absolutely love to. Need to get Dave onto a pickup set he made for me - incidentally, not just the best pickups I've ever owned, they might just be the best I ever used. I shall get back to you shortly man. He is a very nice guy, an authentic love of the guitar, very self-deprecating about his own skills, which I rate tremendously. He should be so easy to deal with for ya. Are you on facebook or twitter, or somewhere I can message you more discreetly? haha not that I mean to sound like we are having an affair

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Lol email me direct buddy at Chinaguitarsceptic@gmail.com

I seen that website a few years back it was linked on a website forum not the one in your video i remember some of the forum users being very angry which was amusing the thing is though this company can only take that fake so far they can't replicate the pat pending tuner serials, the pot serials , the switch serial, of course a person could buy them parts and put them in there but if they try to sell it anyone in the market for a vintage instrument will no doubt have the finish checked with a black light and that ain't going to glow like a vintage finish so basically if you want to buy a instrument off them you are only fooling yourself it is just smoke and mirrors buy a reissue instead

nice looking and probely great playing guitars.... on the fence on this one. alot of work goes into these guitars. but if they put the fender logo on it it hummmm... so like i said on the fence, if i bought one i would tell folks that it is a replica, but hey that's just me. note maybe it because most of these time period guitars are all bought up by collecters and this is why they make them?

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

This is why they make them so correct

The Strat body shape is in the public domain,its the headstock and logo are the only things copyrighted.But i agree difficult to tell its age ect.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Totally buddy, spot on. What worries me is that these are so good you really wouldn't be able to tell.

@slydawgg

2 жыл бұрын

@@Chinaguitarsceptic Absolutely 👍👍

One thing that's really difficult to fake is the smell of an old guitar. Trying to get fresh cut Brazilian rosewood to not have that beautiful sweet spicey scent and nitro-lacquer to have little to no smell is a tricky if not impossible task. You could mask those scents but not have them smell old. Trust all your senses when spending all your dabloons!.

@alohamark3025

10 ай бұрын

Perhaps I should train my dog to distinguish between a six decade old guitar smell and modern reproduction. One part that is not easy to fake is a potentiometer with the correct pot codes, date, and internal corrosion. Most experts can spot broken solder joints on the controls and pickups.

@keiranbradley3238

10 ай бұрын

@alohamark3025 Yes, the pots are a sure way to date the guitar, I just don't understand why they don't make certain internal marks to insure they can't be used to swindle somone?. I was in contact with the guy from CBS guitars, he quoted me for 3 grand (British pounds) for an Olympic white '66 Strat with Brazilian rose wood but he couldn't say where his address was, just a bank deposit number!. Needless to say I didn't send some Spanish guy my money who I have zero knowledge about other than he is happy to be a counterfeiter!.

Does anyone have a link to the website kinda want one of these strats.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Precbsguitars.com

@lukemartinCZ

Жыл бұрын

I have one for sale atm. If interested, let me know. Thx

@CBGypsy03

Жыл бұрын

@@lukemartinCZ And how are they?. What do you have for sale ..

What sort of price are these , they’d have to be cheap or you may as well search a real one out. ?

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Minimum 5k

I'm not against making a period accurate copy of a guitar as far as dimensions and hardware. I actually think it's pretty cool. I believe it goes too far if a logo is on the headstock, and I don't see any reasonable argument for fake date stamps. It's impressive work, but ultimately hurts the vintage guitar trader market.

Unfortunately, I bought one of these stratocasters years ago on an ebay auction out of Switzerland. I still have it and will not sell it. I paid thousands of dollars and only found out it was not a genuine Fender last year when I sent it to Gruhn Guitars for an appraisal. Joe Spann at Gruhn was very nice about breaking the bad news to me and only charged me for shipping.

are fender custon shop reissues fakes? they could be if someone tried to resell them as originals

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Good point!

Wow ! Scary stuff. I guess if you were in the market for a vintage guitar, you'd better have a friend that can do carbon dating for ya ! Cheers

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Even then if the wood is old. You'd have to carbon date the paint!

Well my two cents would they have all the wiring correct this is one thing hard to replicate. Pot dates and old three way switches look a certain way and smell a certain way. Made a certain way. The fret boards be they old wood don't look right to smooth nothing like old Brazilian rosewood . I'd imagine the decals would only be the repros which have inconsistencies from original all be it the same font.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Yes they are apparently

Sort of like those guys who can fake a Rembrandt. You never want to approve it, but deep down you are sort of impressed!

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Yes I think you're right

@davidleinweber

2 жыл бұрын

@@Chinaguitarsceptic yes, sort of impre, lol

It's for this reason that I won't buy a strat or tele from anyone but a reputable dealer. I'm not able to easily spot a fake Fender like I would a Gibson. I haven't decided if I'm happy with the whole "fake" idea either. I'd hate to invest thousands and then find out I'd been "done in" but I think you've got a right to buy one if you're going into it with "eyes open". As I said, I'll stick with dealers.

@Chinaguitarsceptic

2 жыл бұрын

Very wise then you have a come back

just shows what craft and workmanship can do even today...and at 5k the prices seem "reasonable"...but i don't think i want one bad enough to order one....:-) my good (12 year) old mexico strat just will have to do for the "rest of my life"......that sounds bad enough.....to me... and yes....i can imagine that some "chancer" might get the idea to order one of those instruments to make a shedload of dosh.....:-)