Share your faith. Proclaim the gospel. Live each and every day as if He were coming today.

I personally believe I think we dwell too much on his return that we forget that we need to be working the harvest.

@jamesfisherman7669

Жыл бұрын

Indeed🤔

@redtigeroh

Жыл бұрын

We should be focusing on the harvest and laying up treasures in Heaven. However, do not lose sight of the words of Jesus, quoting Deuteronomy 8:3. Man shall not live by bread alone; but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. If something is in the Bible, that means that it is God-breathed, so we must not ignore it. All Scripture is given to us with purpose, so ignoring or weakening any part of it, is a mistake. We are to diligently present ourselves approved, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth. A right division and handling of the Word is important. Iron sharpening iron is a friction-based process. The real trouble comes when we create factions, that war amongst ourselves, instead of all seeking the goal of unity through love.

@Hotel_Chuck

Жыл бұрын

Jesus is coming. And soon. Work the field desperately. Be found going about the masters business.

@Jesus_Messiah_Saves

Жыл бұрын

Well said. God bless

@brandondunn9007

Жыл бұрын

I feel as though the opposite is true. I think longing for his return feeds our zeal to take the gospel to all nations. Because when you look at the early church that’s all they focused of was his return and look at the result. They were willing to go to their bloody deaths.

I think we're confusing things. We are not promised no tribulation/trouble/hardship before Jesus comes. This world is constantly giving us beef. What is written in 1 Thess. 5:9&10 is that we won't have to live through GOD's anger when it is released, because we are spared that through Jesus. "God has not appointed us to wrath..."

I was pretty surprised when J Mac said Jesus could come in any minute despite II Thes. You are right brother.

God save us from any eschatology that would have us desiring the advent of the kingdom more than the king. The spirit and the bride say “Come, Lord Jesus!” God bless John Piper. Maranatha!

@War-Daddy

Жыл бұрын

The king is certainly better than the kingdom, I heartily agree. But Jesus did teach about the gospel of the kingdom on more than one occasion (mt. 24:14)

@Lena.9

Жыл бұрын

@@War-Daddy “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” ‭‭Luke‬ ‭17‬:‭20‬-‭21‬

Great analysis. Well stated. Agree!

John Piper is right that some things still have to happen before Jesus returns. For example, the man of lawlessness (2 Thess 2:3) has to come on the scene first.

Happy Sabbath everyone !!

I was taught the rapture (Jesus) would take the Christians out of the world and keep them from the tribulation...BUT I never could find it in the Bible...I have always believed Gods real blood bought children will endure the tribulation as a testing time to persevere in the faith 'once given to us'...come Lord Jesus

@willham1427

Жыл бұрын

I just don’t want to die because one of the fallen angels locked under the Euphrates. Would God let demons or fallen angels harm us during this time?

@montyburnsgaming3609

Жыл бұрын

It’s in there. Matthew 24:37-44 (NLT): When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah’s day. 38 In those days before the flood, the people were enjoying banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat. 39 People didn’t realize what was going to happen until the flood came and swept them all away. That is the way it will be when the Son of Man comes. 40 “Two men will be working together in the field; one will be taken, the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding flour at the mill; one will be taken, the other left. 42 “So you, too, must keep watch! For you don’t know what day your Lord is coming. 43 Understand this: If a homeowner knew exactly when a burglar was coming, he would keep watch and not permit his house to be broken into. 44 You also must be ready all the time, for the Son of Man will come when least expected. Revelation 3:10 (NLT): Because you have obeyed my command to persevere, I will protect you from the great time of testing that will come upon the whole world to test those who belong to this world. Of course people interpret these verses differently which is where the debate comes in.

@schan6819

11 ай бұрын

​@@willham1427 The answer to the question, "Will God let demons harm us?" is Yes but not more than God let Satan and the demons harm His son Jesus, which was merely (only) physical bodily death. Through Jesus' victorious death, now death has lost its "sting"!

My thoughts exactly after many years of searching the Scriptures and rethinking what I was taught and once believed.

Love all living things unconditionally and forgive all things forever and leave the world and worldly things. Religion is worldly. 😊

may we bask in you truth Lord!

John Piper is right that it is a big mistake to say that Jesus has already returned and that we shouldn't expect him to come visibly down from the sky in the future. There are so many biblical passages which clearly teach that he will return visibly to earth. As some angels say in Acts 1:11: 'Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking up into heaven? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come in the same way that you have seen him going into heaven. (CSB)

@montyburnsgaming3609

Жыл бұрын

Jesus also said to his disciples “there are some of you standing here that will not taste death before I return.” Which strongly supports the preterist view.

@maxaplin4204

Жыл бұрын

@@montyburnsgaming3609 A couple of points: Firstly, even if we were to take Matt 16:28 and parallel passages to be referring to something that occurred in the lifetime of the original listeners, that doesn't mean that ALL passages in the New Testament on the return of Christ would have to be referring to the same event. There are many Christians who claim that Jesus returned spiritually in the first century AND that he will return physically in the future. So, even if a Christian is convinced that Matt 16:28 and parallels refers to something that has already happened, it is still the case that Acts 1:11 can only be interpreted to be referring to a future, physical return. Note the words 'will come in the same way', i.e., in the same way that he physically and visibly went up to heaven. Secondly, I strongly disagree, in any case, that Matt 16:28 and parallels have already been fulfilled. I will admit that this is a difficult problem, but in my view the solution that probably has the least difficulties is to say that Jesus' prophecy was conditional with the condition left unexpressed. In other words, I would suggest that it was never set in stone that Jesus would return within the lifetime of his listeners, that the timing could have been conditional in some way. We see a good example of a conditional prophecy with the condition left unexpressed in Matt 19:28, where Jesus prophesies: 'Truly I tell you, in the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.' Note that this prophecy is given to the 12 apostles. 'Twelve thrones' makes that clear. And note that no condition is given. Jesus just says that the 12 will sit on 12 thrones at some point in the future. But there is no doubt at all that this prophecy will not be fulfilled in the case of Judas Iscariot. So Jesus' prophecy must have had an unexpressed condition attached to it, something like 'as long as you continue to follow me and don't abandon me'. I think it is possible that Jesus' prophecy of returning or fully establishing his kingdom within the lifetime of his hearers could potentially have an unexpressed condition attached to it as regards timing. But in any case, even if you are convinced that Matt 16:28 and parallels are referring to something that has already happened, Jesus will still return in the future, as Acts 1:11 and numerous other passages show.

I love Piper's approach to this because it is rooted in love. Isaiah 65:17-25 always comes to my mind. Has it already taken place? Will it take place? There is still death and sin in the new heavens and earth described in Isaiah 65. I don't know of a time in history where it has been fulfilled. If it is to be fulfilled in the future, then could we expect things to drastically improve at some point? Any thoughts on this chapter?

There is also amillennialism (which is also kind of similar to post millennialism but I forget what the difference is) and pan millennialism (it will all pan out in the end). I’m guessing John supports the classic view of Christ returning to earth after the tribulation with no pre-trib rapture.

💖

2nd Thessalonians 2 says, “Concerning the coming of the lord and our being gathered to Him (the rapture)…don’t let anyone deceive you. That Day of the Lord won’t come until TWO THINGS HAPPEN FIRST; the great apostasy and the man of sin is revealed.” Revelation 3:10 says, “I will keep you from the time of testing coming upon the whole earth.” Sounds like pre-trib, BUT the word translated keep above is the Greek word tereo and it means “to guard by keeping the eye upon.” It does NOT mean to protect by taking us out before the tribulation starts. The Holy Spirit knows full well when Jesus will return for His Church, and it’s already been two thousand years. How could the Holy Spirit have taught the writers of the New Testament that Jesus could come any moment, when He knows everything, including the exact date of the rapture? Nothing can possibly be imminent to God. Imminent means something could happen at any moment. With an all-knowing God there is no maybe, might, possibly, could, wishing, attempting, trying etc. God knows exactly when and how everything will play out, there is no guessing, only fulfilling. Some say, when Paul wrote, “we who are alive and remain shall be caught up…” it was because he believed in the imminent return of Christ. It is scripturally impossible for Paul to have written the word “we” because he thought he would be alive at the time of the rapture. He indeed may have thought such a thing, but he only wrote exactly what the Holy Spirit told him to write. 1st Peter 1:21 says “For prophecy never had its origin in the will (mind) of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.” Pre-tribulationists say, John 14:3 proves a pre-trib rapture. John 14:3 says, “In my Father’s house are many mansions…and I go to prepare a place for you…I will come back and receive you unto myself that where I am you may be also.” The pre-trib view rightly says this verse proves the rapture takes the believer to heaven, and since the post-trib doesn’t, then the pre-trib must be right, BUT that only disproves post-trib. There are also partial-rapture, mid-trib rapture, and pre-wrath rapture that take the church to heaven. 2nd Thessalonians was written to assure the church that they had not yet entered the day of the Lord. Why would anyone who was taught pre-trib theology think they had entered the day of the Lord? There is only one thing that should make a pre-trib believer think he had entered the day of the Lord and that would be the disappearance of millions in the rapture. The rapture hasn’t even happened yet, so clearly there was no disappearance of millions. If, however, the church had been taught that they would be going through the tribulation period, then persecution might have caused them to be fearful that the time they had been warned about had finally arrived. Those believing in the Pre-trib say, The Holy Spirit residing in the Church is the restrainer of evil/anti-christ. No verse anywhere in the Bible even hints that the Holy Spirit residing in the Church is the restrainer of the anti-christ. And in fact, Daniel 12:1 names Michael the great prince as the restrainer. Compare Daniel 12:1 with Matthew 24:21 and you will see they are talking about the same thing; the time of great tribulation.

I appreciate John Piper's ministry and I certainly agree with most of what he said in this video. However, I do not agree with his assessment of the Rapture not having the Bible on its side. To ignore the Rapture, especially while referencing 2 Thessalonians 2, is ironic, seeing that the removal of the Restrainer (the Holy Spirit) is a requirement for the Man of Lawlessness to come on the scene. The reason the Thessalonians were so troubled, was due to the fact that they thought they had missed the Rapture and were now in the Day of the Lord. This fear sparked Paul to write to them again and comfort them, to help remind them of things he had shared previously, that there must be a Falling Away (Apostasy) and that the Man of Lawlessness (Antichrist) show up before God's wrath would be poured out. This leads to the major error that is made by those who do not believe in the Rapture. God's wrath is not the same thing as Christian persecution. Christian persecution is promised to the believer and this is something inflicted on believers by other humans and demonic spiritual forces. God's wrath is His judgment and punishment on the unbelieving and the Christian has no more condemnation from God, and is not appointed to wrath (both ignored by those holding a view that places the Rapture at the end of God's Wrath or not at all). Not recognizing the difference between God's wrath and Christian persecution is one of the primary issues that continues to keep the Church divided on this subject. We are to comfort one another with the doctrine of the Rapture (I Thessalonians 4:18), yet those holding a view of God pummeling us with His wrath along with the rebellious and unbelieving is shocking and scary, not comforting. Furthermore, it violates every other Scriptural model given in the Bible, where God pours out divine wrath on humans. In every case, He removes and protects His people before the event (Noah and Lot). Peter makes this exact case in 2 Peter 2, where he says "then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, (2Pe 2:9 NKJ)". There is so much more that could be written here, but this is already very long for a comment to a video. I will end by saying, I agree with the spirit of this video, but the part concerning the Rapture is incorrect and frankly it undermines and ignores the plain text of Scripture. P.S. My doctrinal position is Reformed, but I strongly disagree with Replacement Theology (another gross error in Biblical interpretation).

@markmoore3530

Жыл бұрын

Greetings friend, this message is sent in love. The rapture is a false doctrine and is mainly derived out of 1st Thessalonians. When was this book written, to whom, and what does it say? Written circa 52 A.D. to a church that was present in 52 A.D., this letter was not written to you. In every chapter Paul/Silvanus & Timotheus (authors) tell the church members that Christ is coming ch 1:10, 2:19,3:13,4:15-16,5:23. If you received a letter telling "you" that the Lord was coming 6 times what would you believe? Exactly. When our Lord was being led away to be crucified; Jesus turned to them, saying, “Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. He returned in the first century and destroyed the temple in judgement fulfilling the law; Matthew 16:27-28 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Again, this message is sent in love, your friend

@animaticToshiue

Жыл бұрын

For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. Matthew 24:21‭-‬22 ESV

@redtigeroh

Жыл бұрын

@@markmoore3530 Hi Mark. I certainly disagree with your viewpoint, as shown in my original comment. You didn't mention it in your statements but it seems that you hold a preterist viewpoint. As John Piper pointed out in this video, the idea that things related to the coming Kingdom happened in 70AD, is ridiculous. Partial or Full Preterism is false doctrine and easily disputed from many Scriptures, both Old Testament and New Testament. The Rapture is not false doctrine, as the harpadzo (Greek word used, meaning snatching away) is the word used in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, showing that the Lord will catch away His dead and living saints. There is a lot of ignoring the Rapture doctrine, due to people having been taught other ideas. However, if we allow the Scripture itself to speak, the Rapture is the only conclusion that harmonizes all related passages. Jesus said "I go to prepare a place for you, that where I am, there you may be also." This place was in Heaven, meaning that Jesus intended to come back and get us to go to the place He was preparing for us in Heaven. This is problematic for those believing that the Rapture and Second Coming are the same event, because the 1,000 year Kingdom on the earth has us here on the earth, not in Heaven. So when do Christians go to Heaven with the viewpoint of no Rapture? They don't, which requires a spiritualization of these passages and not a plain text reading. This problem gets even worse for those holding a no Rapture view, as it requires them to change the order of events in the book of Revelation (which gives its own outline in chapter 1 verse 19; things which you have seen, the things which are, and the things which will take place after this). Chapters 2 and 3 describe the church age and the types of churches which will be found throughout the church age. Then chapters 4 & 5 show scenes in Heaven and who is there? It is the Church from every tribe, nation, and tongue. Then chapters 6-19 describe God's wrath and many events in Heaven and on the Earth during this period. Then chapter 19 shows the Bride (the Church) following the Lord back to the Earth, all on White Horses, as the Lord returns for the Second Coming. Notice how I did not have to manipulate or spiritualize a single text to gain the understanding. In love, go through the viewpoint that you hold and work through which texts you have to spiritualize to produce the doctrinal position. I love what John MacArthur says, "We understand what the Scripture means by what it says".

@seonggkim

Жыл бұрын

2 Thes 2 refers to - not the Rapture coming, but the Day of the Lord. Meaning they believed they missed the Day of the Lord. Rapture was invented in the 1800s, and came to light by the fundamentalist group. No one in the history of the church has ever held this view until now.

@redtigeroh

Жыл бұрын

@@seonggkim The passage states clearly that they believed they were in the Day of the Lord already, not that they missed it. You may be reading a translation that says "Day of Christ", which is an incorrect translation in verse 2. Read an ESV, NASB, NIV or Greek version and you will find the correct rendering in verse two, "day of the Lord". The Day of the Lord is a day of darkness and wrath, not something positive to be desired. Remember, there was no New Testament yet, so their Bible was the Old Testament. Paul would have taught them about the Day of the Lord from the Old Testament. The Thessalonian church was under severe persecution and they believed they were suffering the wrath of God. Paul writes to comfort them and help them remember things he had already told them. Your second point is false and with some research, you can find that people say that all the time, but it doesn't hold water. The Rapture was well understood and taught, all the way back to the first century. I recommend you read Ken Johnson's book called "The Rapture". You can get it on Amazon in book and Kindle formats. Instead of repeating this old red herring, please look into what the early church and many throughout history have believed. The 1800's Darby rapture origin is not only tired and lazy, it's completely untrue. The entire story has been fabricated to deceive people.

John - am reading your book right now. Respectfully, while I appreciate you as a brother in the Lord and have appreciated your work over time (one of the first books of yours I read was - ?Christian Hedonism?) I have come to see that 'basic realized eschatology / Preterism - full, hyper - whatever one prefers - gives a simple consistent rendering of the imminent time statement scriptures dealing with the last days or the time of the end AND not the end of time (Dan 12). John, I expect you will take serious objection to this view and I have no ill feelings towards you or others over that. However, the idea of a dual or multiple fulfilment of the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 is a presupposition based on the Creeds and not on the scriptures. In your book you even say that " I think " such an such makes more sense than to ascribe all the time statements and' time of the end' passages to just the destruction of Jerusalem. I think we need better basis for a futurist model than "I think". If we did not have a credal idea of a future fulfillment and a physical idea of the Kingdom then we would not read the scriptures as futuristic eschatology. Paul was writing to the Thessalonians about their common persecution by the Jews and about the Lord's promise to bring THEM relief and not to us 2000 years hence. Sure, great application and example can be made of this and indeed all scripture to inform and encourage us to live a life worthy as a saint of the Lord. We have twisted ourselves in knots to make these scriptures fit a longer time horizon. So many commentators disagree and are all over the map and so here we are 2000 years later. The fact is, that, each one of us as individuals, will have our (future) day of standing before the Lord and the Father when we pass - I love the Lord and look forward lovingly to His presence to me when I die physically. No need to stand on tip-toe waiting for a return with the knowledge that it might never be or at least not in my/our life time. What IS in our life time is that we will all die and pass over. The final end of world history is no where explicit in the bible and no final resurrection and judgment at the end of world history ( no need - whoever does not believe is condemned already because he has not.......) with a dissolution of the cosmos and a repristinated heavens and earth. The judgement was for the Jews and to bring an end to a competing fading-away covenant that they should have given up willingly and believed the Lord. John says 'we no longer come into judgement if we believe in Jesus'. We need to teach the church about this change in covenant, as many are ignorant of the history and interpretation and meaning to us today - Hebrews, Revelation, the Spiritual nature of the words of Jesus - "the words that I speak to you they are Spirit and they are Life" " The hour is coming and now is when the true worshippers will worship in Spirit and in Truth" etc. John, you do go into the AD 70 material in your book (good) and say which method of futurism is your favorite so to make sense by a dual or other method of fulfillment. AND so these plain scriptures have to be re-worked and tweaked to make room for this position and to get the Apostles off the hook for not knowing. I know I am a heretic by the teaching and pronouncement of the ancient and continuing unified - in Spirit at least - universal church. But I have to follow what the original audience understood. WHEN you see the armies surround Jerusalem then flee. When you see the fig tree OR any tree as per Luke, then you know the time (summer) is near. The Apostles knew that it was near and at hand and at the door and relief was imminent - Jesus was coming and did come as He promised. Jesus brought lasting peace from the Jewish persecutions. Jesus protected His own as He did for His disciples in the Garden when they came to take Him. This was all prophesied in the Jewish scriptures . For them it was largely a Jewish eschatology and judgement for unbelief and blessing for the righteous remnant - His Kingdom shall have no end / World without end amen. The New Heavens and The New Earth are now where righteousness dwells. Jesus is our righteousness. We live in that Spiritual reality right now. Anyways - Love brother David - Canada.

Mt 24:21 "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." With these words Christ shows that this "great tribulation" which follows an "abomination of desolation," has only one fulfilment. -"Then shall be, such as was not since, no, nor ever shall be." If it is the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple it can only be that, and Christ said it would be in that generation, that Is his generation, he told the high priest he would see it. It then has no future fulfilment but that of the first century.

I'm rapture ready! If you wanna stay and work you can !!

I've been wrong many times because Revelation is a HARD book to interpret. As a born again believer I only know 2 things. 1- I have a daily personal relationship with the Lord. 2- If we are living in the times of Noah, then there will be no warning, Christ will come like a thief in the night. So to tell people that before Christ come we have to see 7 years tribulation, plus rapture, plus anti-christ appearance etc etc, it's a waste of time because nobody knows. The only thing that matters is, share the Gospel with anyone who is willing to listen and PRAY for those you know who are lost. Instead of loving prophecies, love the Lord and pray that His Kingdom come soon.

@AnHebrewChild

Жыл бұрын

amen.

@Michael_Angle

Жыл бұрын

This is not true. Jesus and Paul both explained what "a thief in the night" means. " Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. *If therefore thou shalt not watch* , *I will come on thee as a thief* , *and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.* " Revelation 3:3 "Behold, *I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth* , and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame." Revelation 16:15 " But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. *For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.* For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. *But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.* Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but *let us watch and be sober.* For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. " 1 Thessalonians 5:1-7 I do agree with everything you said in the latter. The Gospel and Salvation is the only thing that truly matters, but that is not telling us to be ignorant of biblical truths. We do know the sequence of events, Jesus Himself told us. Matthew 24:15, 21, 29-31. Antichrist > Great Tribulation > 2nd Coming & Rapture (same event, visible coming alongside gathering together of the elect.)

I agree

Outstanding! So I’m gathering that pastor John holds to the historical pre millennial view?

@SpotterVideo

Жыл бұрын

A Millennium Puzzle to solve… Will Christ be conducting funeral services for mortals killed in accidents 500 years after His Second Coming? The “first resurrection” in Rev. chapter 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation, because the two witnesses are resurrected from the dead in chapter 11. There are two different types of resurrection in John chapter 5. There is a spiritual resurrection from the dead in John 5:24, and a bodily resurrection from the dead in John 5:28-29. Does your view of the Millennium agree with what Paul said in 2 Thess. 1:7-10, when Paul said Christ returns in "flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not obey the Gospel? The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20. Does your view agree with what Peter said in 2 Peter 3:10-13, when Peter said this earth is going to burn and "dissolve" when He comes as a thief on the day of the Lord? The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20. Does your view agree with what Paul said in 2 Tim. 4:1, when Paul said both the living and the dead will be judged at His appearing? The time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others is found in Rev. 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible. (This verse also proves the Book of Rev. is not in chronological order.) The judgment of the dead is also found at the end of Rev. chapter 20. Does your view agree with what Jesus said in Matt. 25:31-46, where He described the judgment of the sheep and goats, which leaves no mortals alive on the planet at the end of the passage? There are also no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Rev. chapter 19. Does your view agree with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness? Does your view agree with what John recorded in Rev. 9:1-2, when an angel comes down from heaven with a key to unlock the pit, which means the pit was locked before that time? Are there wicked angels already in the pit in Rev. 9:11? John recorded angels already "bound" in Rev. 9:14. The beast "ascends" out of the pit in Rev. chapter 11, which means the beast was in the pit before that time. Take all of the above and compare it to the symbolic language found in Rev. chapter 20, and the fact the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order, and you will have the truth. ================================================================================================= Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation: (book not in chronological order ) Christ returns one time in the future. However, there are several different visions of His return shown from different perspectives in the Book of Revelation. Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse. Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb. Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present? The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ. He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18. The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15. The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13. He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet? He comes on a horse in chapter 19. Chapter 20? Does He come with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1? (The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.) There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46. Why does an angel come down from heaven with a key to unlock the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2, if the pit was not already locked before that time? Are there wicked angels in the pit in Rev. 9:11? If the beast "ascends" from the pit in Rev. chapter 11, where was the beast before that time? Does your view agree with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness? Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels were previously bound in some manner. Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book. The principle of "Recapitulation" means there are multiple visions of His return.

@the1der

Жыл бұрын

Yes, he does.

@the1der

Жыл бұрын

​@@SpotterVideo i usually dislike ppl w long and weird out of context write ups and comments, but i appreciate this. Im very content being split on A-Mill and Historic Pre. Im w whatever is not an idea of a Christian Paradise on earth where sick and sinful people will adopt Christian life if we just keep giving it more time, lol. No way. And Disp pre mill-also, no way!!! No rapture at all! I cannot buy those positions whatsoever. I appreciate the A Mill breakdown. Any other direction for more reading plz comment back. Thank you.

@SpotterVideo

Жыл бұрын

@@the1der Thank you for the kind words. They are rare these days. I used to believe the Premill doctrine, because of what my preacher told me. Then I started reading the rest of the New Testament. Once I discovered the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order, the Premill doctrine fell apart.

@shanpastaflocka

Жыл бұрын

I am so fascinated by the notion of the book of Revelation not being in chronological order. I will definitely be meditating and praying on that today!

Yeah this time is Chris iris here

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. _But know this,_ that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, and shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Piper ❤🎉😮😅😊

I love John Piper but I hold the pre-ribulational view. When John talks about God not sparing His children from suffering, I feel he doesnt look at what the Great Tribulation is actually. Its not just suffering in the sense what we go through atcthe moment, health issues, financial issues, persecution, even death of a loved one, mental issues etc. The tribulation has one third of mankind dead. It has the whole earth shifting on its axis and asteroids hitting the earth and men dying because of fear of whats gonna come. Thats not just suffering! Thats Gods wrath. And I firmly believe thay God will spare His children from that. Jesus himself tells his disciples, pray that you wil be able to escape from.all these things. So yes, i will keep praying to escape from thpse things about to come. I love pastor John otherwise and am currently reading his book dont waste your life! Its an awesome book!

John Piper is right that Jesus will return. Without the return of Jesus at some point, the whole Christian faith becomes seriously distorted. Without his return, what else would we expect? That the world will just go on until the sun runs out of energy? That people will destroy eventually wipe the human race out in a nuclear war or such like? No, the goal of this world will be reached when Jesus returns. (And not 1000 years later, although Piper didn't talk about this point.)

@user-cr5ov2qd7k

Жыл бұрын

Jesus told his disciples most of you will be alive when l return. Jesus died 2000 years ago. Now he can't walk and talk. He is a human not an angel.

@maxaplin4204

Жыл бұрын

@@user-cr5ov2qd7k I will admit that the apparent delay of Jesus' return is a difficult issue. One possible solution is that Jesus' prediction of when he would return was never meant to be completely unconditional and was subject to revision by God. We find a similar prophecy where God changes his mind, so to speak, in Jonah chapter 3. You are right that Jesus is human and also right that he is not an angel. But as well as being human he is also truly God.

So Piper is a post trib huh 🫠

Christ already came in judgment, the sign in the sky already occurred on May 2, AD66. His judgment coming lasted for 7 years. The marriage supper of the lamb already happened, September 22, AD73, a few years after the temple was destroyed. People need to look at things from the original audiences perspective.

09:40 God will not spare His people from suffering in the last days, correct. But He will spare them from His Wrath. The Tribulation is not a period of mere "suffering" like the early church, or current day China, etc. There's no more wrath for the elect. None. The tribulation coming down during those 7 years are not mere "suffering that produces good fruit". It's heavy wrath and judgement. While I'm glad Piper called out post millenialism and amilenialism in his answer, I also lament the post trib view he defends. Specially because the argument agains pre trib was not really well founded in the Bible.

@sujithmedari1852

Жыл бұрын

Why do you lament the post trib view, if the pretrib view isn't supported in scriptures

@Michael_Angle

Жыл бұрын

The tribulation period is NOT the Wrath of God, unless the devil is your god.... "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! *for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath* , because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." Revelation 12:12 "And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And *it was given unto him to make war with the saints* , and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." Revelation 13:4-8 The Wrath of God occurs at the 6th Seal/7th Trumpet. "And I beheld when he had *opened the sixth seal* , and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; ... For *the great day of his wrath is come* ; and who shall be able to stand?" Revelation 6:12 & 17 "And *the seventh angel sounded* ; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. .... And the nations were angry, and *thy wrath is come* , and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth." Revelation 11:15 & 18

@Michael_Angle

Жыл бұрын

Also, Jesus Himself states that it is undeniably "post-trib". Let God be true, but every man a liar. Matthew 24:15, 21, 29-31. " *When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation* , spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) *For then shall be great tribulation* , such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. *Immediately after the tribulation of those days* shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and *they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory* . *And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect* from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." Jesus definitely stated an order of events. Antichrist > Great Tribulation > 2nd Coming & Rapture (same event, visible Coming, and gathering together of the elect)

@Lena.9

Жыл бұрын

@@Michael_Angle The abomination of desolation is not the antichrist but the roman armies. Compare Matthew 24 with Luke 21 ‘“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its *desolation* is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains...’ ‭‭Luke‬ ‭21‬:‭20‬-‭21‬ ‭ ‘“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.’ ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24‬:‭15‬-‭16‬ Tribulation is here ever since. But I do believe it will intensify when the antichrist has regained its power.

So you are saying it is possible that Christians will be here during the tribulation? I always grew up believing that The Lord would come back for his children before he pours his wrath down on the unbelievers.?

@SpotterVideo

Жыл бұрын

What does an understanding of the New Covenant do to the Pretrib Rapture doctrine? Since the New Covenant is “everlasting” in Hebrews 13:20, how is the New Covenant Church age going to end seven years before the Second Coming of Christ? Why would anyone think God is going back to the Old Covenant system now made “obsolete” by the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:13? We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24. Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." (The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.) Tim LaHaye was co-author of the “Left Behind” books and movies which have convinced millions of modern Christians that the Church age ends seven years before the Second Coming of Christ. Recently, Pastor Matt Furse of Mountain View Baptist Church in Custer, S.D. has written a book titled “Which One Is Right?’, which reveals the recent history of the pretrib rapture doctrine, and the fact it does not agree with what is written in the King James Bible. The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected. The Greek words for “wrath” and “tribulation” are not the same word, as proven by the verse below. Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. Watch the KZread video “Pretribulation Paradox” by former pretrib believer skydiver626.

@jordanpryor4771

Жыл бұрын

@@SpotterVideo What exactly are you saying? I'm lost.

@PennySmart

Жыл бұрын

Don't take Piper's word for it. Read your Bible. Listen to strong Bible expositors like John Macarthur ! Piper also believes in speaking in tongues today. He's not infallible.

@SpotterVideo

Жыл бұрын

@@jordanpryor4771 Nobody can completely understand the Bible unless they understand the relationship between the Old Covenant given to Moses at Mount Sinai and the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary. What brings all local churches together into one Body under the blood of Christ? The answer is found below. New Covenant Whole Gospel: Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him. He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14. Awaken Church to this truth. Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by husband unto them, saith the LORD: Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? What did Paul say about Genesis 12:3 in Galatians 3:8? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis? Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart. Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (John 1:49, Acts 2:36) We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24. 1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. Watch the KZread videos “The New Covenant” by David Wilkerson, or Bob George, and David H.J. Gay.

@Michael_Angle

Жыл бұрын

@@PennySmart In short you're saying "Don't take Piper's word for it, take John Macarthurs." What a joke. Don't take ANYONE'S word for it. READ THE BIBLE. Let God be true, but every man a liar. Study to shew yourself approved. It is plain and simple. Once you read the Bible without any man's interpretation, bias, or presuppositions. It is very clear what the sequence of events will be.

I believe the pretrib rapture theory will cause the apostasy. (Falling away from the faith).

And the fact Jesus comes from the East, East is Judgement. See the red sea in Exodus, east wind closed the sea on pharoah. We will literally meet HIM in the air as HE appears, like a hosanna welcome. A victorious kings welcome, and witness the destruction of the evil antichrist, false prophet, beast (dragon).

Hallelujah

"We experience it as . . . .purifying us." So basically like purgatory . . . but on earth. Nope. Not buying it.

@AnHebrewChild

Жыл бұрын

when is the last time you read Daniel chapters 7 - 13? This isn't a gotcha question, and I'm not looking to debate. It seems to me that you're a man who cares about the truth. And on this matter of end times, Jesus makes it clear that his followers should read and understand that book. _...as spoken of by Daniel the prophet (whoso readeth, let him understand)._ Mat24:15 >

@kaboom9081

Жыл бұрын

justification and sanctification are 2 separate things.

@AnHebrewChild

Жыл бұрын

as a p.s. to my previous comment... And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. _Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried;_ but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. Daniel12 []

@2007vwbeetle

4 ай бұрын

If you want a simple explanation timeline about the tribulation resurrection/ rapture/ last trump coming read Matthew 24 by the VERY Jesus who said it and will do it as written. Can there be more then one first resurrection? Can there be another Last Trump after the Last Trump? Can there be more then one Rapture/ First Resurrection? Is there any “ secret coming” in the scripture? What kind of believer prays or desires for GOD to remove them and the church from a world of tribulation filled with family and friends who need believers testimony and guidance more then anytime in history? That would be pretty unbiblical and selfish?

Surely prophecies are difficult to analyse? How can anyone be 100% that their view is right, and others are wrong? Amilleniumism and the praetorian view can easily be disproved by the Bible, but surely it's not that simple when it comes to the Rapture? The very verse used to refute that view can be used to defend it! Yes, as believers we will experience God's judgment, testing and trials, but NOT His wrath, which is precisely what the tribulation is about: the wrath of God being poured out on the earth. I used to waver between both views till I thought of Noah being taken out of the flood and Lot out of Sodom. Now I believe in the rapture more and more: why is the Church not mentioned in Revelation after chapter 3 till the very end? And why is evangelism being done by angels and 144,000 Jews, and not by the Church? And why is belief in the rapture so attacked today? If I'm wrong and do go through the tribulation, no, I will not lose my faith, I'll just know that I misinterpreted the Bible.

The position of Jonathan Edwards reduced to a “popular blunder”? Interesting, and sadly reductionistic.

Me muse

Seven Signs of Christ’s Return to Earth 1. The mount of Olives cleaves in two. Zech 14 1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. 6And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: 7But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. 2. Those who remain on the earth are changed at the last trump. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Cor 15:50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 3. The Son of Man shall come in a great cloud with power and great glory. Lk 21:25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. 4. He shall gather the elect from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Mk 13:24But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. 5. When you are persecuted, the time of the return is near. Mt 10 16Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 17But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 18And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. 21And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 22And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. 23But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. 6. Every eye shall see Him. Rev 1 7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 7. His coming is as the lightning. Mt 24 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Luke 17 24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

@Michael_Angle

Жыл бұрын

@Olia Krist Your preface is false, and so are the explanations you provided. Jesus Himself undeniably stated the sequence of events. Matthew 24:15 -> Matthew 24:21 -> Matthew 24:29-31 Antichrist -> Great Tribulation -> 2nd Coming & Rapture

@Michael_Angle

Жыл бұрын

@Olia Krist the tribulation isn’t God’s wrath, unless your god is the devil. “Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” ‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12‬:‭12‬, ‭17‬

@Michael_Angle

Жыл бұрын

@Olia Krist just because the word church isn’t mentioned, doesn’t mean anything. If you want to get that literal about it, we’ll then I guess we should ignore the entire book of revelation because it was meant for the 7 churches in Asia Minor in the 1st century. The reason the word church isn’t mentioned (which is literally irrelevant), is because Jesus was addressing the 7 churches in that time; and after the message was finished John continued his vision.

When Christ returns this is not the Rapture, it’s the Second Coming and is final, therefore there is np Pre, Mid or Post Tribulation.

Bible says soul and body get together in the day of judgment. Jesus died. Jesus never comes for sencond time. Christians should use sence.

@sujithmedari1852

Жыл бұрын

And what religion are you?

@user-cr5ov2qd7k

Жыл бұрын

@@sujithmedari1852 l believe in God of the universe , He is only one and spirit. I believe in all prophets of Almighty God, peace be upon them.

@newlifeprayerchain5859

Жыл бұрын

3For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that He was seen by [a]Cephas, then by the twelve. 6After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have [b]fallen asleep. 7After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time. 9For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed. The Risen Christ, Our Hope 12Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up-if in fact the dead do not rise. 16For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18Then also those who have [c]fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.

I’m sorry, I love John Piper, but I have to say I am astonished that he would say a postmillennial view “would skew the church away from world evangelism” Say what you will about postmillennials, but they are primarily concerned with winning the nations over to Christ, not through a literal rod of iron when Christ reigns in a literal earthly Jerusalem, but by winning the nations through the gospel, slowly and steadily. This just seems like a very unfortunate bias on the part of Piper. We need to be more fair to brethren with different views of eschatology.

@sujithmedari1852

Жыл бұрын

True, but does that make their wrong view right? And what are the dangers of believing something that isn't true? In theory, it will eventually not produce the right fruit, correct?

@Spurgeon_General

Жыл бұрын

@@sujithmedari1852 I don’t think postmillennialism is even wrong. I think it’s the most coherent view. I used to be premill. And I honestly used to think postmill was nuts. So if you’re not on board, I understand. I was there.

@Michael_Angle

Жыл бұрын

@@Spurgeon_General I won't say anything about postmillenialism. But in context of the totality of the New Testament, premillenialism post-tribulation is the correct view. When you take into account everything the scriptures have to say about these events, Old and New, it is quite clear. I do say though that postmil is a beautiful thought, but it can't be correct because of the "great falling away" that will occur prior to the visible 2nd Coming.

@Spurgeon_General

Жыл бұрын

@@Michael_Angle I understand where you’re coming from. I will say this, I used to be premill, and I thought postmill was ridiculous, I even mocked it somewhat. Even studying it I still was not convinced…. But eventually I saw where I was not seeing things clearly. I had some certain interpretative issues with it, for example the issue you raised. I am actually postmill and yet still hold to a final apostasy at the very end. In fact now, to me, Satan being released makes so much more sense than it ever did, back when I was premill. But I understand your concerns. I really do.

Nobody can completely understand the Bible unless they understand the relationship between the Old Covenant given to Moses at Mount Sinai and the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary. What brings all local churches together into one Body under the blood of Christ? The answer is found below. New Covenant Whole Gospel: Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him. He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14. Awaken Church to this truth. Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by husband unto them, saith the LORD: Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? What did Paul say about Genesis 12:3 in Galatians 3:8? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis? Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart. Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (John 1:49, Acts 2:36) We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24. 1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. Watch the KZread videos “The New Covenant” by David Wilkerson, or Bob George, and David H.J. Gay. ============================================================================================================== What does an understanding of the New Covenant do to the Pretrib Rapture doctrine? Since the New Covenant is “everlasting” in Hebrews 13:20, how is the New Covenant Church age going to end seven years before the Second Coming of Christ? Why would anyone think God is going back to the Old Covenant system now made “obsolete” by the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:13? We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24. Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." (The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.) Tim LaHaye was co-author of the “Left Behind” books and movies which have convinced millions of modern Christians that the Church age ends seven years before the Second Coming of Christ. Recently, Pastor Matt Furse of Mountain View Baptist Church in Custer, S.D. has written a book titled “Which One Is Right?’, which reveals the recent history of the pretrib rapture doctrine, and the fact it does not agree with what is written in the King James Bible. The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected. The Greek words for “wrath” and “tribulation” are not the same word, as proven by the verse below. Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. Watch the KZread video “Pretribulation Paradox” by former pretrib believer skydiver626. =========================================================================================================== Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation: (book not in chronological order ) Christ returns one time in the future. However, there are several different visions of His return shown from different perspectives in the Book of Revelation. Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse. Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb. Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present? The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ. He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18. The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15. The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13. He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet? He comes on a horse in chapter 19. Chapter 20? Does He come with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1? (The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.) There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46. Why does an angel come down from heaven with a key to unlock the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2, if the pit was not already locked before that time? Are there wicked angels in the pit in Rev. 9:11? If the beast "ascends" from the pit in Rev. chapter 11, where was the beast before that time? Does your view agree with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness? Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels were previously bound in some manner. Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book. The principle of "Recapitulation" means there are multiple visions of His return.

@eugenaionesca

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Right, so folks are aware that the word "church" is not in the bible, nor is rapture, or trinity, but in Greek, "koinonia" is a type of assembly, the Greek word "harparzo" is in scripture, "to be caught up" is presented, and trinity, well, you can see where I'm going with these examples to asher the idea evolved translation and linguistics that follow. I personally believe there is enough biblical evidence, and signs of the times, to believe in the rapture. I think it only helps a follower of Christ Yeshua to be prepared, to put Him in the forefront of our minds daily, because humans also face the possibility of their own immortality, which is immenant in our daily walk. Imminency can only help keep believers striving to be in lockstep with our Lord. The only hindrance would be that newly born Christians might be frazzled by the season setters of "high watch" times, and years. There is much thought that goes into this and it shouldn't be dismissed completely. I find the communities that look into this aspect of prophecies, very encouraging, with shared ups and downs, that Christians tend to face.

John Piper is right that it is a big mistake to think that the church will be raptured up to meet Jesus in the air and that then a few years later he will return to the earth proper. The Bible knows nothing of Jesus returning twice.

Anyone who studies the cases, side by side, with an open mind, for and against the pre-trib rapture of the church, will see that the bible absolutely supports the pre-trib rapture.

*Forget what your "pastor" told you, here's what JESUS said about when He's coming back....* *Matthew 24:3* “And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?” *Matthew 24:9* “Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.” *Matthew 24:29* *“Immediately after the tribulation* of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:” *Matthew 24:30* “And *then* shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and *then* shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” *Revelation 9:6* “And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.” *Revelation 20:4* “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were *beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,* and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” King James Version In *Daniel 7:25* God told us that the *Antichrist* would "think to change _times and laws,"_ and that God would allow him to for a little while. Times and laws meant history and laws of physics. *So what he has used that power to do is to change the Holy bible into something unholy and even blasphemous, supernaturally right in our homes with black magic in order to establish his one world religion and to exterminate all Christians!!!* The fulfillment of *Amos **8:11* where God said He would send a famine for hearing His word, the "lying signs and wonders" and "strong delusion" spoken of in *2nd Thessalonians chapter two* are all happening right now, but maybe only 1% of all believers know it! (so far) And the "pastors" aren't ever going to mention it!!! kzread.info/head/PLOTw4zBND_NPf66nKUONLoe2MNFLb5LQr *All true followers of Christ can see proof of what I've said by typing in (proof of bible change residue junkie). I don't make videos BTW.* *God bless you all!!!* ❤✝️💪

@HearGodsWord

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Forget what residue told you. Its spam and misinformation

@taylornovia8911

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How can you take it literally as stars falling from heaven? That's not what stars do. Space debris and meteors do but they aren't stars at all. And what if you translate stars as "angels." Angels are going to fall to earth?

I like God he gave me gifts so I can help others but I need help and Christians won't help me