"story vs. form" doesn't mean "writing vs. art", because for me most of the writing is part of the "form" ... so maybe I should have called the whole subject "plot vs. writing & art" 🤔

In my movie version of our world Earl Grey lives in a castle too. With a giant laboratory filled with mysterious tomes and canvases of indescribable images.

First of all, I have to compliment you on the script of this episode. It feels scholarly but clear, measured, deliberate, comprehensive, yet compelling and thought provoking. You know that I am a biased fan anyway, but there's something about the language, cadence. and arrangement of the script that seems revelatory! And it is used to create such a meaty video to sink my teeth into! This touches upon SO many fantastic ideas and thoughts that I don't know where to begin! I am sure that we can have a lifelong discussion on these (and what a lovely life it would be) here are at least my simplified thoughts: 'Plot' and 'story' are often used interchangeably, and I understand why but I need to separate them. The measure I use is the aspect of 'storyteller'. We all know great storytellers, people whose manner of telling transforms and elevates something beyond what other storytellers would do with the same material. So material = the most basic components, like plot, numbers and names of characters, geographical locations, time period, etc, and story=the way these are chosen, manipulated, and presented. This works differently in different mediums like prose, film and theatre, and in comics I think story=writing+art. So rather than limit story to being an aspect of a larger thing, I look at each story as a product of many things being mixed together in different ways.

@earlgrey862

Жыл бұрын

thanks for the nice and insightful comment (and again for your very generous help in terms of sound questions)… actually I would agree on your assessment that story equals writing+art, while plot refers only to the most basic components…. I guess, I will change the title of the video to clarify my position: „plot versus form“ is much better than my original „story vs. form“ … and I‘d define „form“ as what you call „story“ Edit: no! I've changed it back to the original title to prevent too much confusion

@ftloc

Жыл бұрын

@@earlgrey862 Man, I just wrote a six paragraph essay as a comment and lost it. Needless to say it was brilliant. Here is the summary: Frankenstein is an excellent choice! Like Dracula and maybe Sherlock Holmes, what the stories are and who the characters are depends wholly on which avatr you relate those associations with. As for form, there are SO many context that it makes my head spin. Form vs Content, a la the liquid in different containers by Scott McCloud, not necessarily something I fully agree with. FORMat, not paperback and HC, but short story, essay, TV show, novel, etc. Formal vs Informal - re: syntax, grammar, theory, and the notion of 'free-form' Truly, a garden for endless exploration!

@earlgrey862

Жыл бұрын

yes, it's complex... and "form" is definitely not a very fortunate wordchoice. if I would do this video again I probably would rather run with plot vs. story, using the term "story" 180° different than before. So much for the importance of self-made definitions for one's own theories 🤯

@ftloc

Жыл бұрын

​@@earlgrey862 haha if I spent too much time thinking about how I *should* have said something, I would have taken all my videos down! But I think such things are inevitable. We are using words that have been used in so many different contexts and then trying to apply them to a different medium, with different vocabulary. Wrestling with how to best capture it is half the fun! I would much rather have this kind of video which inspires thought and discussion! More please! 😁

@sleepyreader666

Жыл бұрын

@@ftloc We need a team up video of the two of you parsing these and many other ideas.

I find it interesting that you have so many Frankenstein adaptations despite never having read the original novel.

@earlgrey862

Жыл бұрын

I don‘t have so many Frankenstein adaptations because of my love for Shelley‘s novel (and then it would be odd if I had not read it) but because of my love for Junji Ito, Georges Bess, Dick Briefer, these Goofy albums etc. etc.

This awakened a desire to actually read the book🤔You commented that you have this many Frankenstein comics not because of the original book but because you like all these comics creators. This makes me want to see myself how one book can be so meaningful to so many creators. If my memory serves me right the only remotely Frankenstein related comic I have is certain Hellboy story arcs. Thanks for this🤘🏻

@earlgrey862

Жыл бұрын

the mere fact that Shelley's novel is said to be the first "science fiction"-novel should be enough reason for me (and you) to read it

Great collection. I love seeing these Disney spoofs too.

@earlgrey862

Жыл бұрын

they're great fun

Great video! You could do a episode with Dracula adaptations also, the Bess and Mignola ones are fantastic. Breccia's Dracula "I was Legend" may be his single best short comic. There is Tezuka's Don Dracula also.

@earlgrey862

Жыл бұрын

yes, right... Dracula was a contender, since Hermann, Crepax and everyone and Kirby's Mama have done vampire comics. But somehow I was more in a monster than in a vampire mood.

I totally agree with you on story vs form and very nice selection 👍🏼 but you forgot Marvel’s Bronze Age Monster of Frankenstein! (Which has beautiful art by Ploog and Mayerik among others)

Cool concept! There's another Disney version with ducks, with really fun art by Fabio Celoni. At first I mixed him up with Paolo Mottura, who drew the Moby Dick adaptation. Both look pretty wild.

@earlgrey862

Жыл бұрын

probably part of the "duckburg goes literature" - series? In Germany they were called "Literatur" and presented with covers which imitated the covers of "real" prose novels.

...22:00 Uhr und Doktor. ÖRL ist noch fleißig in seinem Videolabor am werkeln😅. Sehr cooles Thema, aus dem man auch eine mehr oder weniger ausgedehnte Reihe machen könnte. Über die ein oder andere Form bei Frankenstein könnte man mit Sicherheit streiten, doch ich denke, jede hat ihren eigenen Charm und Berechtigung. Natürlich steht Georges Bess Adaption weit oben auf dem Treppchen, da sie sehr nah am Roman entlang segelt, doch mindestens genau so berührt hat mich der modernere Kontext von How to make a Monster. Ebenso hätte man noch "Die lebende Tote" und "Monster" anführen können und und und, doch man sieht auch so schon, welch ungeheure Schatten Mary Shelly ihren Frankenstein und seine Kreatur werfen lässt. Ich kann nur empfehlen den Roman zu lesen (ist ja recht kurz) und sich mit der denkwürdigen Nacht seiner Entstehung in der Villa Diodatti zu beschäftigen. Allein durch deinen Beitrag bekomme ich jetzt schon wieder Lust mir heute Nacht noch ein paar Dichtungen von Byron und Shelly bei einem guten Glas Wein zu genießen.... ahhhh man mit solchen Beiträgen rührst du mein schwarz romantisches Herz....gut, das Laudanum heute verboten ist...😂😂😂 P.S.: ...die Arbeitsweise von dem erkrankten Crepax an seinem Frankenstein hast du super auf den Punkt gebracht! Was eine Gewalt, was eine Kraft! Unfassbar beeindruckend! THX

@earlgrey862

Жыл бұрын

ja, die lebende Tote hatte ich auch auf dem Schirm, aber soviel hätte der Comic jetzt auch nicht hinzugefügt & bei meinen angloamerikanischen Zusehern nur wieder dieses "ach herjeh, sowas kriegen wir hier nie in Englisch zu sehen" entlockt. Klar könnte man da auch eine Reihe daraus machen... 1629 mit Jeronimus zu vergleichen würde sich ja offensichtlich anbieten. Aber mir ging's vor allem um den grundsätzlichen Vorrang der schriftstellerischen und künstlerischen Gestaltung über den (für mich) eher beliebigen Inhalt... denn eigentlich dürfte einen eine Frankenstein-Geschichte ja kaum interessieren: die "Story" ist ja komplett bekannt und "gespoilert" 🤣

Frankenstein looks even better than Dracula. I can't wait to read it.

Bernie Wright son is fantastic

Are you tempted now to read the original novel? I know that 70s Marvel comics make you break out in hives, but the first four issues of their Monster of Frankenstein adapts the novel with wonderful art by Mike Ploog. Might be worth looking at. I like your thesis about form over story and think it's at least 50% true. But this video also demonstrates that some stories have so much power that they can be told over and over again

@earlgrey862

Жыл бұрын

tempted... but actually: I know myself well enough to know that some comics will always find their way between me and some prose... even if they are Marvel and from the 70s :)