Excellent overview, Dr. Jordan! Origen and most of the Church Fathers were absolutely awesome in spite of their many exegetical flaws. But today's Christians (with their insufferable fault-finding spirit) are so focused on critiquing (and condemning) the theology of the Church Fathers that they never get around to emulating their ardent passion for Christ. Truth be told, the average Christian of today looks like a spiritual choir boy when weighed against the backdrop of the spiritual dynamism of the Church Fathers.

@timvickers947

2 жыл бұрын

so true

@spiritof6986

2 жыл бұрын

Well said.

@greglogan7706

2 жыл бұрын

How do you know any of this they these fellows were all about protecting other fellows doesn't seem any different to me

@greglogan7706

2 жыл бұрын

How does this fellow no origin was born in 190AD?

@masterprophet8378

2 жыл бұрын

Amen, Tim.

The castration thing was a rumor started by his opponents.

@kenfaulds8818

4 жыл бұрын

Yes, I seem to remember reading that view as well. Thank for the reminder.

@johnkronz7562

4 жыл бұрын

Cyber Voyager There’s no “fact” to it. Eusebius reports it as a rumor, claiming Origen misinterpreted a passage from Matthew. But none of Origen’s contemporaries mention it, and his own exegesis of Matthew goes directly against the idea.

@leonelhuicho174

3 жыл бұрын

@@cybervoyager8668 Because there are two rumors which contradict themselves in regards with dealing with the reasons why Origen's chastity.

@MrSwitchblade327

Жыл бұрын

@@cybervoyager8668 facts of whostory?

@MrSwitchblade327

Жыл бұрын

Demon ization is the tried and true first step by evil ones in power to attack, destroy, and conquer the TRUTH. Countless and endless atrocities committed from it's manifested spell. Innumerable unsung martyrs.

The idea that Origen was castrated is disputed, and we should note that there are inaccuracies on Wikipedia. Also we should be careful not to use post-nicean terms and apply them to pre-nicean writers, especially the same substance formulation to define the Trinity.

@joshportie

3 жыл бұрын

All you need to do is read origin he was a gnostic heretic.

@joshportie

3 жыл бұрын

And im not referring to his views on the trinity.

@user-ij5rs7xq5y

3 жыл бұрын

@@joshportie to who’s standards was he considered a heretic by? His writings line up with people such as polycard and clement of Rome...

@zoro5035

3 жыл бұрын

If you ever read his writings he was pretty much against the act of castrations and is unlikely to have done that

@leonelhuicho174

3 жыл бұрын

Origen was the biggest critic of Gnosticism, lol.

This video brought back memories of my term paper on Origen when I was a seminarian in the RC seminary in 1974. I really enjoyed my research! His commentary on the Song of Solomon was such a blessing to me. Thank you for this presentation!

Great summary on Origen. Thank you and God bless.

I have come to really enjoy your videos! Thank you!

Love your summary on Origen very knowledgeable and your defence of Origen

Good video. Enjoyed hearing your insights and perspective.

Great subject matter and content, Thank you.

Clement, Origen, and Gregory spoke Greek and wouldn't have misinterpreted Paul's writings, unlike Augustine and his followers who spoke Latin. There are differences between the earlier Hebrew and Greek translations and the rubbish that came from the Latin Vulgate.

Very interesting. Thanks. You mention about the problems of allegorical reading of the O.T. but it should also be considered that the Literal reading is also problematic. I believe we are indebted to Origen for his work on 1 Corin. 15: 20 -28, the restoration of all things. This has been largely ignored in the western church, especially since Augustine. But it is rightly making a massive comeback. I think David Bentley Hart is correct in believing he is surely a Saint.

are those Miriam Webster Dictionaries in your bookshelf? The hunter green books? :o

Why would the guy who is accused of taking a "too allegorical view" of scripture, take Matthew 19:12 so literally as to cut off his own beans? Yeah dude, that's a rumor.

Origen was the greatest saint of the early fathers by the sheer volume of text he wrote to construct the basic tenants of the Church. There is no evidence he taught his reflections as doctrine, as there was very little doctrine at that time. He never taught against dogmatic teaching that was already established. His opposition came because he was a popular lay figure and suffered much scrutiny by Clement after he left Alexandria and was ordained in Caesarea.

@sleepystar1638

Жыл бұрын

Second Council of Constantinople Ex Cathedra If anyone does not anathematize Arius, Eunomius, Macedonius, Apollinarius Nestorius, Eutyches and Origen, as well as their heretical books, and also all other heretics who have already been condemned and anathematized by the holy, catholic and apostolic church and by the four holy synods which have already been mentioned, and also all those who have thought or now think in the same way as the aforesaid heretics and who persist in their error even to death: let him be anathema. Third Council of Constantinople Ex Cathedra the fifth holy synod, the latest of them, which was gathered here against Theodore of Mopsuestia, Origen, Didymus and Evagrius, and the writings of Theodoret against the twelve chapters of the renowned Cyril, and the letter said to have been written by Ibas to Mari the Persian. Second Council of Nicaea Ex Cathedra when it drove from the divine precinct the foul-mouthed Eutyches and Dioscorus. We reject along with them Severus Peter and their interconnected band with their many blasphemies, in whose company we anathematize the mythical speculations of Origen, Evagrius and Didymus, as did the fifth synod, that assembled at {5}Constantinople Fourth Council of Constantinople Ex Cathedra { 5 Constantinople II}, we anathematize Severus , Peter and Zoharas the Syrian, as well as Origen with his useless knowledge, Theodore of Mopsuestia and Didymus along with Evagrius, who also, although of the same or different opinions, were ensnared in the same pit of damnation. Council of Florence Ex Cathedra It also embraces, approves and accepts the fifth holy synod, the second of Constantinople, which was held in the time of our predecessor most blessed Vigilius and the emperor Justinian. In it the definition of the sacred council of Chalcedon about the two natures and the one person of Christ was renewed and many errors of Origen and his followers, especially about the penitence and liberation of demons and other condemned beings, were refuted and condemned. Vatican 1 Ex Cathedra Hence, too,that meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church, and there must never be any abandonment of this sense under the pretext or in the name of a more profound understanding. 3. If anyone says that it is possible that at some time, given the advancement of knowledge, a sense may be assigned to the dogmas propounded by the church which is different from that which the church has understood and understands: let him be anathema. Enjoy Hell

@josephtravers777

Жыл бұрын

@@sleepystar1638 Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation” (Lumen Gentium, 16).

@sleepystar1638

Жыл бұрын

@@josephtravers777 Council of Florence Ex Cathedra It firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the catholic church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the catholic church before the end of their lives; that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed his blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church. Vatican 1 Ex Cathedra 3. If anyone says that it is possible that at some time, given the advancement of knowledge, a sense may be assigned to the dogmas propounded by the church which is different from that which the church has understood and understands: let him be anathema. Enjoy Hell, there is No Salvation Outside the Church. if you don't believe in Jesus and Get Baptized there is absolutely no chance

@josephtravers777

Жыл бұрын

@@sleepystar1638 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. - Jesus Christ Son of God and Son of Man

@sleepystar1638

Жыл бұрын

​@@josephtravers777It is joy to the just to do judgment: and dread to them that work iniquity. Proverbs 21:15 For the Lord loveth judgment, and will not forsake his saints: they shall be preserved for ever. The unjust shall be punished, and the seed of the wicked shall perish. Psalms 36:28 The mouth of the just shall meditate wisdom: and his tongue shall speak judgment. Psalms 36:30 Blessed are they that keep judgment, and do justice at all times. Psalms 105:3 Judge my judgment and redeem me: quicken thou me for thy word's sake. Psalms 118:154 It is not good to accept the person of the wicked, to decline from the truth of judgment. Proverbs 18:5 1 Corinthians 6 1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to be judged before the unjust, and not before the saints?2 Know you not that the saints shall judge this world? And if the world shall be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?3 Know you not that we shall judge angels? how much more things of this world?4 If therefore you have judgments of things pertaining to this world, set them to judge, who are the most despised in the church.5 I speak to your shame. Is it so that there is not among you any one wise man, that is able to judge between his brethren? John 7 24 24Judge not according to the appearance, but judge just judgment. Do not any unjust thing in judgment, in rule, in weight, or in measure. Leviticus 19:35 Let there be equal judgment among you, whether he be a stranger, or a native that offends: because I am the Lord your God. Leviticus 24:22 And whosoever will not do the law of thy God, and the law of the king diligently, judgment shall be executed upon him, either unto death, or unto banishment, or to the confiscation of goods, or at least to prison. 1 Esdras (Ezra) 7:26 Can he be healed that loveth not judgment? Job 34 17

Origen could not believe a loving God could not send anyone to eternal punishment it’s called reason!

@testifcation9533

2 ай бұрын

people choose to go to eternal damnation....

Just an old historian here much Enjoyed well done

Great info on how to read and utilize the writings of Church Fathers.

Not a heretic, but a martyr. He was very clear that he aspired to be a “man of the Church”.

@sleepystar1638

Жыл бұрын

Second Council of Constantinople Ex Cathedra If anyone does not anathematize Arius, Eunomius, Macedonius, Apollinarius Nestorius, Eutyches and Origen, as well as their heretical books, and also all other heretics who have already been condemned and anathematized by the holy, catholic and apostolic church and by the four holy synods which have already been mentioned, and also all those who have thought or now think in the same way as the aforesaid heretics and who persist in their error even to death: let him be anathema. Third Council of Constantinople Ex Cathedra the fifth holy synod, the latest of them, which was gathered here against Theodore of Mopsuestia, Origen, Didymus and Evagrius, and the writings of Theodoret against the twelve chapters of the renowned Cyril, and the letter said to have been written by Ibas to Mari the Persian. Second Council of Nicaea Ex Cathedra when it drove from the divine precinct the foul-mouthed Eutyches and Dioscorus. We reject along with them Severus Peter and their interconnected band with their many blasphemies, in whose company we anathematize the mythical speculations of Origen, Evagrius and Didymus, as did the fifth synod, that assembled at {5}Constantinople Fourth Council of Constantinople Ex Cathedra { 5 Constantinople II}, we anathematize Severus , Peter and Zoharas the Syrian, as well as Origen with his useless knowledge, Theodore of Mopsuestia and Didymus along with Evagrius, who also, although of the same or different opinions, were ensnared in the same pit of damnation. Council of Florence Ex Cathedra It also embraces, approves and accepts the fifth holy synod, the second of Constantinople, which was held in the time of our predecessor most blessed Vigilius and the emperor Justinian. In it the definition of the sacred council of Chalcedon about the two natures and the one person of Christ was renewed and many errors of Origen and his followers, especially about the penitence and liberation of demons and other condemned beings, were refuted and condemned. Vatican 1 Ex Cathedra Hence, too,that meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church, and there must never be any abandonment of this sense under the pretext or in the name of a more profound understanding. 3. If anyone says that it is possible that at some time, given the advancement of knowledge, a sense may be assigned to the dogmas propounded by the church which is different from that which the church has understood and understands: let him be anathema. Enjoy Hell

@JamesMC04

Жыл бұрын

​@@sleepystar1638 OTOH, although his works have in part been destroyed (thanks in part to the "anti-Origenists) a lot of his work has survived. As has his influence. He is still read, and is still influential. it was absurd to judge him by the standards of the 6th century, instead of by those of the 3rd, in which he passed most of his life. The Second Council of Constantinople is pretty disreputable anyway - it is very easy to see it as nothing more than Byzantine Imperial interference in matters of faith. It is hard to see the strong-arm tactics adopted by the Emperor in 564 in defence of Aphtartodocetism, a heresy, as any different from the same tactics used from 543 to 554. It looks as though he were less concerned with truth, than with the requirements of realpolitik. One is strongly reminded of Constantine I.

@sleepystar1638

Жыл бұрын

@@JamesMC04 Second Council of Constantinople Ex Cathedra If anyone does not anathematize Arius, Eunomius, Macedonius, Apollinarius Nestorius, Eutyches and Origen, as well as their heretical books, and also all other heretics who have already been condemned and anathematized by the holy, catholic and apostolic church and by the four holy synods which have already been mentioned, and also all those who have thought or now think in the same way as the aforesaid heretics and who persist in their error even to death: let him be anathema. Third Council of Constantinople Ex Cathedra the fifth holy synod, the latest of them, which was gathered here against Theodore of Mopsuestia, Origen, Didymus and Evagrius, and the writings of Theodoret against the twelve chapters of the renowned Cyril, and the letter said to have been written by Ibas to Mari the Persian. Second Council of Nicaea Ex Cathedra when it drove from the divine precinct the foul-mouthed Eutyches and Dioscorus. We reject along with them Severus Peter and their interconnected band with their many blasphemies, in whose company we anathematize the mythical speculations of Origen, Evagrius and Didymus, as did the fifth synod, that assembled at {5}Constantinople Fourth Council of Constantinople Ex Cathedra { 5 Constantinople II}, we anathematize Severus , Peter and Zoharas the Syrian, as well as Origen with his useless knowledge, Theodore of Mopsuestia and Didymus along with Evagrius, who also, although of the same or different opinions, were ensnared in the same pit of damnation. Council of Florence Ex Cathedra It also embraces, approves and accepts the fifth holy synod, the second of Constantinople, which was held in the time of our predecessor most blessed Vigilius and the emperor Justinian. In it the definition of the sacred council of Chalcedon about the two natures and the one person of Christ was renewed and many errors of Origen and his followers, especially about the penitence and liberation of demons and other condemned beings, were refuted and condemned. Vatican 1 Ex Cathedra Hence, too,that meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church, and there must never be any abandonment of this sense under the pretext or in the name of a more profound understanding. 3. If anyone says that it is possible that at some time, given the advancement of knowledge, a sense may be assigned to the dogmas propounded by the church which is different from that which the church has understood and understands: let him be anathema. Well you are not going to Heaven unless you repent.

My understanding of the beginning of the church and up to now is what does the word of God teach is about how God not only preserves his words but also how he worked in starting the church with the Holy Ghost and the apostles. God's part in assuring his work.

Fascinating and clear!

Excellent presentation. Thank you.

I am reading 'Hope Beyond Hell' by Gerry Beauchemin and really like it!

the whole book of Hebrews tells of the old testament meaning of the text is allegorical does not mean that it is not real or throwing out the literal the bible says about its self is 1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned

On patristic interpretation of scripture a good analysis is Craig Carter, interpreting scripture with the great tradition. One of his points is that God is the ultimate author of scripture, so there will be inherent spiritual meanings. We as moderns are far too influenced by historical-critical method.

Origen had real some errors in his theology. Thar said, he also had a lot of good points and was clearly a devoted man who loved christ. I think a lot of "first principles" can be salvaged, and his "against Celsius" is a must read for anyone who wants to know about early Christian apologetics.

"what has Athens to do with Jerusalem" This should be considered heresy. If this big of a mistake is said then how can we trust he knows the gospel?

Thank you

So he was closer in language, culture and time to the writers of the New testament books than us and one of your major criticisms of him is that he doesn't read them the way a modern person does? Shouldn't that bring our readings of them into question?

@joeydelrio

2 жыл бұрын

it means that Origen was closer to the teachings of Jesus and the 12 before their teachings had been corrupted by manmade doctrines.

@MrSwitchblade327

Жыл бұрын

BINGO!! You are absolutely CORRECT!! 90% of "Christians" today don't even understand the very words and stories in the scriptures. They simply believe WHATEVER the man at the front of the class tells them the answer is,and then will angrily fight anyone who says different even if it's true. Cutting themselves completely off from actually learning and accepting the real truth. They believe the physical personification and literal interpretations so strongly they will become completely disillusioned in the times to come. Or simply be deceived to willingly follow their "shepherds" to the slaughterhouse. The scriptures are written in parables and such so as the truth is veiled from the reader. It's the students job to decipher and discern the real truth which lay encoded beneath. It will not be taught or given to you by your preacher, priest, etc. All you will get is the introduction and surface level. "Storytime" basically. It is up to YOU to do your due diligence and find the TRUTH underneath. You would think in dealing with your eternal soul and salvation that one would take a more hands on and careful approach than the equivalent of a child in a classroom with a cool teacher giving them all the correct answers for an upcoming test.

@MrSwitchblade327

Жыл бұрын

@@joeydelrio 👍👍👍

@stephenkneller6435

Жыл бұрын

Perhaps you should re-watch the video. I think you missed what Dr. Cooper said about this.

@nolanl3343

Жыл бұрын

This is the mind of a Christian. We should have confidence in the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints in the beginning. Origen is a true saint martyred for Christ.

Regarding scripture not saying anything about the salvation of all, I submit Rom 5:18, "Then as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men." Sounds like a good reason to be hopeful to me. And, of course, there are many more verses. Origen didn't just make the idea up.

@zoomer9686

Жыл бұрын

We can hope. One day, we will know either way. But I hew more and more towards ultimate salvation for all...perhaps not free of trials... but at the end we'll all be reunited in eternity. Seems like the culmination of all of Christianity and the Gospels. I don't know...but I hope.

@benzle93

Жыл бұрын

@@zoomer9686 I agree!

@linjicakonikon7666

4 ай бұрын

​@@zoomer9686The culmination and restoration of Everything God made and pronounced good Apokatastasis.🌿

@krown1188

2 ай бұрын

Exactly. It says it over and over again, Jesus says it in John 3, Paul says it in nearly every epistle in many different ways, John says it in Revelation. And beyond that there is just no way to possibly justify people being locked away in eternal torture with out hope of redemption…and still claim that God is not pure evil.

What did the the Apostles teach to their disciples? Seems their was a move from knowing Christ relationally to trying to figure him out theologically. Just a contrast between Polycarp and Origin. I look at someone like George Mueller or a Watchman Nee who were heavy on the faith side vs Theology. Andrew Murray also had an awakening.

@ednasepulveda9778

Жыл бұрын

I agree, I think this is why the Lord says, many are called, few are chosen. The chosen certainly sound different according to the gospels. They don't play around, Preaching healing baptizing.

Origen also noted that Christ was a fairy tale for children. This is my first hearing that he castrated himself. Wikipedia is not a good scholarly source.

Great video! I’m a agnostic theology student and Origen is by far my favourite church father.

@justinsankar1164

2 жыл бұрын

Pretty cool. Hows the studies going

@EasternRomeOrthodoxy

11 ай бұрын

🤦Origen wasn't a church father. His later writings were corrupted with heresy, so get education

@ettgnell92

3 ай бұрын

He wasn’t a Church Father. He was condemned as an heretic; thus, making him a theologian.

10:59 you are not correct, universal reconciliation is plainly and blatantly stated all over Scripture, people say it's not in there just because they don't carefully read their Bible. Every knee shall bow, every tongue confess. GOD will restore all things. Read the Bible!

@spiritof6986

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly. The weight of scripture that supports universal reconciliation is overwhelming. And the character of our creator as portrayed in the Torah and through our Lord,is one of mercy,kindness, patience and love beyond any human comprehension. How anyone can label this doctrine as a heresy, is beyond me. Brotherly love and warm regards to you from Glasgow.

@gordanadrmic752

2 жыл бұрын

@@spiritof6986 And according to the Scriptures Jesus Christ will surrender his kingdom to the one who surrender all to him - that God may be all in all or everything in everything.

@CR-ze5pw

5 ай бұрын

Righteousness and justice are the foundation of God's throne. Psalms 89:14. God has other attributes besides love and mercy. If we reject His free salvation it is clear what the result will be. God will create a new heaven and earth but Sata​n and unbelievers will be in the Lake of fire. Universalism is a heresy.@@spiritof6986

So….the question begged by your title is: to whom? Luther is still heretic to most of the Church, East and West? and I happily ignore that. Similarly I easily reject easily definitions of those monickers, ‘saint’ or ‘sinner’. I’m far more interested in human brilliance and contribution to culture? than in definitive assessments regarding ‘truth’. Truth exists; but we have no easy access to it, and no exhaustive knowledge of it even when we can claim some of it. Dogmatism? is a bore.

Both Eusibius's hated him. One because he (Origen) preached things which didnt agree with the later emerging Catholicism, and the other hated him for his clear refutation of Arrian beliefs promoted by Constantine. Essentially, the people who he is in direct conflict with wrote bad things about him.. and are also the only sources for these claims of castration. I would say its clear enough he didn't castrate himself.

11:03 There are many New Testament verses that point to universal reconciliation that I don’t even have to cite. The concept of eternal damnation is contradictory to the message that Jesus Christ preach about God’s infinite mercy. All of what Jesus talked about were parables and not meant to be taken literally. The word eternal meaning “Aionios” actually means “ages” and is typically used in Greek literature to denote a beginning and an end and doesn’t mean eternal to a point where there remains no end. To state that an all infinitely merciful God wouldn’t extend his mercy to even the lowest depths of Hell means that God’s mercy is not eternal therefor, cannot be God if God is mercy. If we were to compare this life to the vast expanse of eternity and claim that Gods mercy only extends to unbelievers in this life and not to their eternity, means that God’s mercy is measured to a speck of dust. You are, indirectly, by believing in this doctrine enclosing Gods mercy within this tiny speck of a life. That is the greatest blasphemy

Although, isn't one of the major conflicts of Origen, the idea of the Trinity. The Trinity implies that Jesus is equal to God, whereas he was more into the idea's of Arius that Jesus is subordinate to God because Jesus is a creation of God. The trinity seems to conflict with the 1st commandment that Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Jesus does say God is greater than me. Jehovah witness and Muslims seem to have similar views on this where they believe in God (Jehovah/Allah) as the supreme being, and Jesus as subordinate to God, while the Jews believe in Yahweh and do not consider Jesus.

Origen is a great Church father.

Origen as apologetic, traveler, platonist, etc

I would say the Philo did not read the Torah, the Prophets, and Writings in an allegorical way. He was a Jew and knew the manner after which his people read the Torach, the Prophets, and Writings. He chose to provide an allegorical reading to demonstrate that the world of the Greeks- i.e. a philosophical tradition- could be found already in the Torah, the Prophets, and Writings. Philo was underscoring the uniqueness and primacy of the tradition of the Jews. Furthermore, Philo's allegorical approach did not take hold in the rabbinic Tannaim, i.e. the Mishnaic, tradition,

Christianity is considered the most popular religion. At Origins day describing Christianity was as confusing as even now. Remember that the writings we call the new testament had not been settled. For well over half the Catholic church was the church. For protestants then the early church was heretical. Think of the thousands of christian denominations. How many of those believe that it is only their beliefs that God approved of . Is there a true christian majority when most denominations look at the other denominations as the work of Satan? Other religions suffer this same tendency to distinguish their denominations as not just superior but the true religion. Just my opinion.

Origen got lots of his thinking directly through the writing of Alexander of Aphrodisias.

I doubt you’ve read any of Origen. Probably just secondary sources.

@DrJordanBCooper

3 жыл бұрын

I've read quite a bit of Origen, actually.

@benjy2391

3 жыл бұрын

@@DrJordanBCooper a lot has been mistranslated and lot of falsified information passed down.. For Eg. The castration rumor. Please read father John berh's work on origens book and translation

As long as you are comparing apples to oranges , you’ll always think the orange is wrong if you are an apple, and visa versa. So, if you are forming your doctrine based on what ORTHODOX religion teaches (apples) TODAY, to Origens teachings , based STRICTLY on the SCRIPTURES (oranges) it could appear as though he was a heretic. If you base your doctrine STRICTLY ON WHAT THE BIBLE SAID (at that time), he taught in agreement with it. He didn’t need others to translate the meaning of Greek words recorded in the Bible books written by the apostles at that time, to him as we do. He was a brilliant Greek scholar If you believe in SOLO SCRIPTURA , SOLELY on what the SCRIPTURES say, you don’t need such (resources) , post ecumenical councils, post ecumenical creeds where doctrine was developed BY MEN who were not INSPIRED ! ALL HE NEEDED WAS GODS WORD which precludes the needs for ecumenical councils. As it says at 2 Timothy 3:16 by the BIBLE ALONE we are “COMPLETELY equipped “ for a Godly life. What is your understanding of the definition of the Greek word “completely” ? Doesn’t that signify that Gods Word ALONE is the basis for our theology ? The Bible and Holy Spirit are all that is necessary to understand it. IF ONE PRAYS TO GOD, UNCEASINGLY, FOR THE WISDOM , INSIGHT AND DISCERNMENT to understand the way and the truth, with an open mind and heart, he will answer your prayer. If you are looking for him to confirm what you prefer to believe, you are wasting your time. He is too busy answering the prayers of those honest hearted truth seekers to entertain prayers of those who aren’t sincerely searching for the TRUTH. I enjoyed your answer and response to the question about Origen very much and thought you gave a sincere and insightful appraisal of him.

Well, Theosophists sure seem to love him... based on my past experience (now soundly renounced) in the New Age.

@commentorTD

4 жыл бұрын

YRB I know this is a 6 month old comment, but could you explain what changed your mind about theosophy? Also did you return to Orthodoxy, and if so why? - a curious mind investigating new age vs orthodoxy

@haremahatma6383

4 жыл бұрын

@@commentorTD many esoteric/theosophic ways of christianity seem to lack the metanoia aspect to some degree - philosophy is part of the logos too.. but there is a thin line when repentance through heart is replaced with luciferian enlightement of the mind.. Then there are the neo-pharisees on the otherside also.. i mean.. i love and respect the orthodox aproach to the theology and christology etc.. but the phariseic minset is the sickness in every denomination.. .. so it's luciferian gnostic cosmic skydaddy issues or neo phariseic blindness of the law and not actually walking in GOD's love o.o .. there are just some observations

@haremahatma6383

4 жыл бұрын

@@commentorTD newage jesus christ and christ consiousness seem to be a bit watered-down anyway.. i use the christ-consiousness word sometime.. but try to emphasize the fullness of the WORD of GOD, the logos, the second person of the trinity etc.. and emphasize on personal relationship with the living GOD repentance is crucial to be put in context with proper understanding of GOD above, GOD amongst and , GOD within.. to fully put the alchemical formula to use.. to make us partake in GOD's glory

@theTavis01

4 жыл бұрын

@@haremahatma6383 that's a keen observation of the shortcomings of both the left hand (pharisee) and right hand (gnostic) paths - but what options then remain for someone who wants to walk the middle path in the company of others?

@haremahatma6383

3 жыл бұрын

@Marc Bell classical gnosticism deems materialistic universe as bad and spiritual as good. So no Nicolaitan heresy for me thankyou. GOD created universe as GOOD.. Like I said before it is luciferian brain based mentality which has no place in true christianity. Even Bhakti movement understand that Krishna is GOD which many brahman philosiphers cannot grasp because they are reaching out to GOD with their brains and not their hearts. . Only fools say that Christ was just a man.. Only fools say that Krishna was just a simple demigod..

I stopped at you calling his way of reading scripture as "strange". The basics are without his accepted doctrines there would be no Christian church as is currently established and with his "heretical" doctrines there would be no need for an authoritarian Christian church as is currently established. What strange is, is how nobody can see that.

I think the fairest assessment is this excerpt from the old Catholic Encyclopedia. "In the preface to the "De principiis" Origen laid down a rule thus formulated in the translation of Rufinus: "Illa sola credenda est veritas quae in nullo ab ecclesiastica et apostolica discordat traditione". The same norm is expressed almost in equivalent terms in many other passages, e.g., "non debemus credere nisi quemadmodum per successionem Ecclesiae Dei tradiderunt nobis (In Matt., ser. 46, Migne, XIII, 1667). In accordance with those principles Origen constantly appeals to ecclesiastical preaching, ecclesiastical teaching, and the ecclesiastical rule of faith (kanon). He accepts only four Canonical Gospels because tradition does not receive more; he admits the necessity of baptism of infants because it is in accordance with the practice of the Church founded on Apostolic tradition; he warns the interpreter of the Holy Scripture, not to rely on his own judgment, but "on the rule of the Church instituted by Christ". For, he adds, we have only two lights to guide us here below, Christ and the Church; the Church reflects faithfully the light received from Christ, as the moon reflects the rays of the sun. The distinctive mark of the Catholic is to belong to the Church, to depend on the Church outside of which there is no salvation; on the contrary, he who leaves the Church walks in darkness, he is a heretic. It is through the principle of authority that Origen is wont to unmask and combat doctrinal errors. It is the principle of authority, too, that he invokes when he enumerates the dogmas of faith. A man animated with such sentiments may have made mistakes, because he is human, but his disposition of mind is essentially Catholic and he does not deserve to be ranked among the promoters of heresy." The entire article is worthwhile www.newadvent.org/cathen/11306b.htm

@eduds6

4 жыл бұрын

What a pile of Catholic propaganda.

@bradenglass4753

3 жыл бұрын

Catholic nonsense comment

@spiritof6986

2 жыл бұрын

If there's anything at all that I've learned over these last 50yrs of study and reflection, it's that the 'church' is another very poor shepherd. We have one light and one light only. The only light that we need; The Holy spirit. It's little wonder that the Catholic church tried so hard for centuries to hide that light under the bushel. I don't need any priest to tell me what the bible says. And no priest can forgive my sins. Period.

@spiritof6986

2 жыл бұрын

If there's anything at all that I've learned over these last 50yrs of study and reflection, it's that the 'church' is another very poor shepherd. We have one light and one light only. The only light that we need; The Holy spirit. It's little wonder that the Catholic church tried so hard for centuries to hide that light under the bushel. I don't need any priest to tell me what the bible says. And no priest can forgive my sins. Period.

@knightmarepilot4832

Жыл бұрын

Fair judgment.

I lump Origen and Tertullian into the same category: When they got it right, they really hit home. When they got it wrong, they really went wrong. They were material heretics (to use a Catholic theological term). BTW, I like your channel. I can appreciate our similarities (and your appreciation for Church history) while acknowledging our differences. Keep up the good work!

@timvickers947

4 жыл бұрын

why do you say they where material heretics

@timvickers947

4 жыл бұрын

what is some of the good things you see in Origen? like him and the word of god says the word of god is spiritually descend

@MrSwitchblade327

Жыл бұрын

By what standards or authority are any of the modern day self proclaimed Christians of self righteous pompous arrogance and judgements to say what they, whom were there far earlier in the beginning, before the deceit, before the delusion,before the confusion, before the division, were supposedly wrong about?

@EasternRomeOrthodoxy

11 ай бұрын

🤺☦🇷🇺Oh, is that so...? Well, tell me where Tertullian got things wrong?? Those people were holy men, writing through the holy Spirit, not doing guess work like scientists, so what are you talking about?? What is this heretic Protestant talk?!🤦Let me educate you: Look, the fact of the matter is very simple, and you shouldn't complicate it by saying he was both great Christian thinker and heretic at the same time, that is totally false. The correct view is that Origen in his first and prime years was a holy man, writing by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, but he got corrupted and the Spirit left him, then he started making mistakes, and 1 of those was totally heretical, and ONLY because of it, he, rightfully so, lost veneration as a saint and church father, for crossing a red line: the moment you say that the Bible, even in just 1 part is "allegory", you're finished, since that's the biggest heresy equal to saying "God is not real" (and I mean in the biblical NARRATIVE, not the parts that are clearly parables told by Prophets or allegory in songs, and decorative expressions, so don't even start lol). ☦🤝✝️

@EasternRomeOrthodoxy

11 ай бұрын

@timvickers947 Why doesn't he answer you?

But what if Origen was right?

@100cents5

Жыл бұрын

he was

@sleepystar1638

Жыл бұрын

@@100cents5 Second Council of Constantinople Ex Cathedra If anyone does not anathematize Arius, Eunomius, Macedonius, Apollinarius Nestorius, Eutyches and Origen, as well as their heretical books, and also all other heretics who have already been condemned and anathematized by the holy, catholic and apostolic church and by the four holy synods which have already been mentioned, and also all those who have thought or now think in the same way as the aforesaid heretics and who persist in their error even to death: let him be anathema. Third Council of Constantinople Ex Cathedra the fifth holy synod, the latest of them, which was gathered here against Theodore of Mopsuestia, Origen, Didymus and Evagrius, and the writings of Theodoret against the twelve chapters of the renowned Cyril, and the letter said to have been written by Ibas to Mari the Persian. Second Council of Nicaea Ex Cathedra when it drove from the divine precinct the foul-mouthed Eutyches and Dioscorus. We reject along with them Severus Peter and their interconnected band with their many blasphemies, in whose company we anathematize the mythical speculations of Origen, Evagrius and Didymus, as did the fifth synod, that assembled at {5}Constantinople Fourth Council of Constantinople Ex Cathedra { 5 Constantinople II}, we anathematize Severus , Peter and Zoharas the Syrian, as well as Origen with his useless knowledge, Theodore of Mopsuestia and Didymus along with Evagrius, who also, although of the same or different opinions, were ensnared in the same pit of damnation. Council of Florence Ex Cathedra It also embraces, approves and accepts the fifth holy synod, the second of Constantinople, which was held in the time of our predecessor most blessed Vigilius and the emperor Justinian. In it the definition of the sacred council of Chalcedon about the two natures and the one person of Christ was renewed and many errors of Origen and his followers, especially about the penitence and liberation of demons and other condemned beings, were refuted and condemned. Vatican 1 Ex Cathedra Hence, too,that meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church, and there must never be any abandonment of this sense under the pretext or in the name of a more profound understanding. 3. If anyone says that it is possible that at some time, given the advancement of knowledge, a sense may be assigned to the dogmas propounded by the church which is different from that which the church has understood and understands: let him be anathema. Enjoy Hell

No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

you have a grave mistake about philo of alexandria he was a religious jew not a christian ,whose writings were vastly used in the gospel of john and the charch fathers

Origen’s view of Trinity and the GodMan. Confusing

And scripture does have promises - of good and evil (blessing and curse) you reap what you sow, and forgiveness allows one to ALWAYS sow 'good'. Notice that as per Isaiah 45:7 evil and darkness are 'created', and is why the state of the 'creation' was as it was after God 'created' it (Genesis 2) 'NOW' the earth was formless and void, and darkness... Then came the forming and making process... and why on the 7th day God rested from all He 'made' and 'created'.

I’m a believer, and I’ve had this thought come to mind about everyone. In the end being saved because of Christ Jesus statement that he makes all things new. Hell was prepared for the devil and his angels so that’s old. All sin came in by one man and out by one man scripture says. So this thought is a rational in my humble opinion. Even though it seems the majority of scripture outweighs it. One can have child like faith that in Gods mercy all will be saved. Billy Graham at the end of his life had this same hope.

The case for universalism is extremely strong-read The Bible and Universalism by Yale Philosophy professor Keith Derose.

Origen may ave got his doctrine of pre resistance of the soul (reincarnation) from the bible as well as from Plato. 'He shall be a pillar in the temple of the Lord and go no more out' where the last 5 words mean he shall not need to die and be reborn. And Christ says he came as Eliseas before but the people knew him not. These direct references to reincarnation suggest that Christ taught it but was removed from Christian theology later. Perhaps it offers we sinners too much room to move😁

@elmonomon

Жыл бұрын

Negative

They say that claim that the father of wickedness and perdition, [and] of those who are cast out of the kingdom of God, that is, the devil, is to be saved. This is something which not even a madman and someone who is manifestly insane can say." Origen, "the Letter to Friends in Alexandria"

Do one on Tertullian! Montanist? Yes/no? Montanism? Christian/not?

@SuperGreatSphinx

4 жыл бұрын

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tertullian

1 Timothy 4:10 that is an example of apokatastasis

A very good point that we shouldn't judge the church fathers by what we know today. Many of them were martyrs for their faith. For example Martin Luther recovered justification by faith but he was also anti-Semitic which is wrong. Without him we might still be in the dark ages. People also in principle do the same to our founding fathers.

Interestingly, Origen stated in Justinian, Ep ad Mena, ( Mansi, 1X, 524) "God the Father, since He embraces all things, touches all things that exists....The Son is INFERIOR in relation to the Son....for he is SUBORDINATE to the Father. The Holy Spirit is still LOWER in Degree". Bit of a puzzle for the 'trinity' doctrine dont you think? ( Origen at least here shows preference to Holy scripture at 1 Corinthians 11:3 & 1 Cor 15:28) rather than pandering to greek philosophers which most of the post 2nd century 'church fathers' did

Your line of reasoning completely precludes an absence of the Holy Spirit in Origen's understanding. Do you believe he gets a pass on getting every single Christian idea wrong because there was not a hierarchical institution of systemic theologians to train him? This line of reasoning sounds very fundamentally RCC to me.

Saint.

@sleepystar1638

Жыл бұрын

Second Council of Constantinople Ex Cathedra If anyone does not anathematize Arius, Eunomius, Macedonius, Apollinarius Nestorius, Eutyches and Origen, as well as their heretical books, and also all other heretics who have already been condemned and anathematized by the holy, catholic and apostolic church and by the four holy synods which have already been mentioned, and also all those who have thought or now think in the same way as the aforesaid heretics and who persist in their error even to death: let him be anathema. Third Council of Constantinople Ex Cathedra the fifth holy synod, the latest of them, which was gathered here against Theodore of Mopsuestia, Origen, Didymus and Evagrius, and the writings of Theodoret against the twelve chapters of the renowned Cyril, and the letter said to have been written by Ibas to Mari the Persian. Second Council of Nicaea Ex Cathedra when it drove from the divine precinct the foul-mouthed Eutyches and Dioscorus. We reject along with them Severus Peter and their interconnected band with their many blasphemies, in whose company we anathematize the mythical speculations of Origen, Evagrius and Didymus, as did the fifth synod, that assembled at {5}Constantinople Fourth Council of Constantinople Ex Cathedra { 5 Constantinople II}, we anathematize Severus , Peter and Zoharas the Syrian, as well as Origen with his useless knowledge, Theodore of Mopsuestia and Didymus along with Evagrius, who also, although of the same or different opinions, were ensnared in the same pit of damnation. Council of Florence Ex Cathedra It also embraces, approves and accepts the fifth holy synod, the second of Constantinople, which was held in the time of our predecessor most blessed Vigilius and the emperor Justinian. In it the definition of the sacred council of Chalcedon about the two natures and the one person of Christ was renewed and many errors of Origen and his followers, especially about the penitence and liberation of demons and other condemned beings, were refuted and condemned. Vatican 1 Ex Cathedra Hence, too,that meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church, and there must never be any abandonment of this sense under the pretext or in the name of a more profound understanding. 3. If anyone says that it is possible that at some time, given the advancement of knowledge, a sense may be assigned to the dogmas propounded by the church which is different from that which the church has understood and understands: let him be anathema. Enjoy Hell

The biggest problem in my opinion is that the Bible is not a philosophical book it is a Theological book. It was written by Hebrews who saw the world completely different than Greeks. Gods ways are not man's ways and philosophy is all about man's ways and wisdom.

Preexistance of the soul... Wow, wonder if Joseph Smith read this before writing Book of Mormon

Origine sounds like justin peterson to me, in a sense of mixing filosophy and teology(christianity)

So you criticize the condemnation from Church Fathers?

Jesus was begotten when he achieved a correct testament. Because he wasn’t received, his testament required him to face death without accusing God or cursing those who placed themselves in an adversarial position, like the thief who hung on the cross to Jesus’ left. God did not say Jesus was begotten from birth; though Jesus was born without original sin. Jesus could have thrown away his mission according to Satan’s requirement that the Messiah throw away his mission. If Jesus had been accepted, we can only imagine what a successful testament upon his natural death would have been. Perhaps to unite Hellenism and Hebraism within the standard of Messianic thought, in order for the Parent’s Right and king’s Right to have a supranational and supraethnic foundation to fulfill the original purpose of creation which was none other than the ideal world of perfect love between man and God and man and man.

7:56 amen 🙏 ❤

Second Council of Constantinople Ex Cathedra If anyone does not anathematize Arius, Eunomius, Macedonius, Apollinarius Nestorius, Eutyches and Origen, as well as their heretical books, and also all other heretics who have already been condemned and anathematized by the holy, catholic and apostolic church and by the four holy synods which have already been mentioned, and also all those who have thought or now think in the same way as the aforesaid heretics and who persist in their error even to death: let him be anathema. Third Council of Constantinople Ex Cathedra the fifth holy synod, the latest of them, which was gathered here against Theodore of Mopsuestia, Origen, Didymus and Evagrius, and the writings of Theodoret against the twelve chapters of the renowned Cyril, and the letter said to have been written by Ibas to Mari the Persian. Second Council of Nicaea Ex Cathedra when it drove from the divine precinct the foul-mouthed Eutyches and Dioscorus. We reject along with them Severus Peter and their interconnected band with their many blasphemies, in whose company we anathematize the mythical speculations of Origen, Evagrius and Didymus, as did the fifth synod, that assembled at {5}Constantinople Fourth Council of Constantinople Ex Cathedra { 5 Constantinople II}, we anathematize Severus , Peter and Zoharas the Syrian, as well as Origen with his useless knowledge, Theodore of Mopsuestia and Didymus along with Evagrius, who also, although of the same or different opinions, were ensnared in the same pit of damnation. Council of Florence Ex Cathedra It also embraces, approves and accepts the fifth holy synod, the second of Constantinople, which was held in the time of our predecessor most blessed Vigilius and the emperor Justinian. In it the definition of the sacred council of Chalcedon about the two natures and the one person of Christ was renewed and many errors of Origen and his followers, especially about the penitence and liberation of demons and other condemned beings, were refuted and condemned. Vatican 1 Ex Cathedra Hence, too,that meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church, and there must never be any abandonment of this sense under the pretext or in the name of a more profound understanding. 3. If anyone says that it is possible that at some time, given the advancement of knowledge, a sense may be assigned to the dogmas propounded by the church which is different from that which the church has understood and understands: let him be anathema. He is a Defined Heretic, to think otherwise or to defend him is to put yourself outside the Church.

But in fact an allegorical reading of the Gospels and Paul did become the hermeneutic for Augustine and Luther. Both Augustine and Luther, for the most part, simply avoided or ignored the historical context of Scripture. They were preoccupied with philosophical categories and soteriology. They missed the physical sense of a real people, called to a real covenant in space and time. Romans 11: 28-29.

Do some research and stop spreading misinformation

The fact Origen didn't understand Aramaic idioms such as "son of man" and "son of God" is an example of where and when Western Christianity started to miss the mark and morph into something the original Near Eastern followers of Jesus never intended. Example: Origen believed Jesus paid a ransom for our sins. Paid it to who?? In the Near East it was taught Jesus died because of the sins (ignorance) of the people, not for them. Western Christianity has it all backwards. And people praise these confused early European church fathers for their misguided theologies as if they wrote the Bible.They didn't. Jesus wasn't a Helenistic Jew or Greek philosopher. The Greeks and Romans never expected a Messiah. This was new and foreign to them.

That Band-aid is so distracting.

@Mygoalwogel

2 жыл бұрын

Where?

Today we have the Bible OT and New. If you want paganism and Christianity you can go to the Catholic Church and most Protestant churches and follow their doctrine’s and customs. To really learn about God and Jesus one must read the scriptures and ask God to show you and He will. It was meant to be simple easy to understand. When I heard that some believed that Satan and his demons would be saved and the evil. That definitely is not scriptural. The Lords glory ( for I AM a consuming fire) will burn them up , the second death. They wouldn’t want to be with our Lord anyway. Lucifer was given several chances. Anything else is deception or a lie. Philosophy is basically a waste of time outside of the inspired word of God. We we given the answers in this Bible

Eternal generation?? Really?? Damn dude that's heavy...😖🥺

Well everything is GOD anyway there is no such thing that is outside of GOD , we are made from dust , and we have GODs breath ( GOD is inside of us ) , so when we die if we sinned we cannot enter the perfect light , we need to go back to earth and fix what needs to be fixed , thats the only justice i see in wars why wars and disabled people are born , arent we all adams soul that came from GOD ? So basicly we are ALL one soul , so yeah it always made sense to me , basicly both eternity and hell are eternal , if your blind then u keep coming back until you are reborn from above and if you reborn then you are eternaly living ☦️

Origen was a black African church father facts.

@Nick.T.A

3 жыл бұрын

Origen was most likely of Hellenistic (Greek) decent and was a subject of the Roman empire

@aioniansage6081

2 жыл бұрын

Naw, Alexandria Egypt was 92% White.

It is very unlikely that Origin castrated himself. His Bishop in Alexandria said so but is is well known that he persecuted Origin in many ways and that was the main reason Origin finally left Alexandria for good. I think the reason the Bishop persecuted him was that he was very efficient in persuading pagans to become Christians and the Bishop didn't like that for who knows why.

@zoomer9686

Жыл бұрын

could be he wasn't a fan of the messed up teaching of Origen's...?

God exists in all things and present in all places. God will inspire the minds (Nous!)of people once they remove their desires and polarity and selfishness. Origen has more understanding of God, than most. I dont beleive he castrated himself. The soul is eternal, always existed. The soul is all knowing, when you incarnated you dont remember who or what you are, only most may feel the moral compass. Even Christ and all other saints stated that soul is eternal. The only deamons and the Diablos is yourselves, in my opinion diablos means seperation of your union with God, people and all others. Jesus was incarnated God himself, he did everything to show us what we all must do. We will be tempted, we will crusify our created personality and the inner soul will resurrect your personality to assimulated with the Godself. The eternal soul. We are all already with God, as Jesus said to Seek within you, ask and you will find. Origen was probably critized due to peoples misunderstanding, the light shins but the darkness does not comprehend it. This is meaning that your created personality (good & bad, selfishness the potential diablos) is unable to comprehend the light because we are busy feeling egotistic, feeling and chasing desire and thirtsy for more, a never ending cycle of Hell. This is what the Bible means about Hell. You must be like a sculpture to keep removing the bad portions of yourself and to clean, to connect more deeply with your innerself. Think about Buddhism, to detach from attachments. Remo e desire and to clean desire. Origens teachings were used by many early church fathers.

Heretic (period).

Life is allagorical - the writings are the Book of Life. Jesus did not come in 'his own name' - He came in God's name. This is how your name is found to be in the 'Book of Life', by coming in 'His' name. And so much so that 'YOU' cannot be found. It's so simple... once you see it you cannot 'unsee' it - it will change you forever - Gospel of Thomas (saying #2) gets it right. Stop thinking like this ♀️, pick up your cross and think like this ♂️. else you are defiled by 'woman'.

Firsty the castration tale is by no means a secure fact, it was used by his adversaries! The idea of an eternal hell is so unbearably cruel that Christianty must have been forbidden only for that. Even if a murder were punished with 1000 years purgatory, even Hitler or Stalin would be redeemed after 20 billion years of painful suffering - and what a microevent are those 20 billion years against eternity! This idea is just admirable tool to supress illiterate Christians. The idea that human beings are able to state the nature of (any) God and relationsships to other entities (e.g. the trinity) is so absurd while not even explain e.g. the anomality of water.... By the way "begotten son of god" occurs often in Tannach - it is the adoption of the jewish kings, the offsprings of David! And is further amusing that a protestant pastor uses terms like orthodoxy and heretics, thus posing as a true follower of e.g. the Roman Inquisition... By the way the Hexapla is a synopsis of the Tanach - the Hebrew Bible!

Before you were in your mothers womb I knew you. Doesnt the Bible teach the preexistence of the soul ?

@maxmagic

4 жыл бұрын

Another interesting one is in Ecclesiastes which says “and the soul returns to God who gave it.” I have heard Rabbis talk about a soul on its return journey .. what do we know???

@tiqvahone

4 жыл бұрын

The "knew" here is God's foreknowledge of each individual in His mind and heart, before he created them through the instrument of conception in the womb.

@josephtravers777

4 жыл бұрын

@@maxmagic The preexistence of souls and the salvation of all creation both have scriptural references that seem paradoxical to many others. Nevertheless, they are there. Exactly, what do we know?

He talks a lot but says very little because he knows little about the subject.

As an LDS member we teach of pre-existance. Why did the Christian leaders remove the teaching of pre-existance?

@Mygoalwogel

4 жыл бұрын

Before I explore your question... I'm Lutheran. I'm well aware that Luther was inexcusably anti-Semitic, and became a crude kind of arrogant as he aged. I'm Lutheran because of the way Lutherans read the Bible. Are you the kind of LDS who is fully aware of Smith's adulteries and forgeries, as well as Young's racism, yet who remains LDS because of theology? One such LDS wrote an interesting article for the periodical, _First Things._ He explored the history of un-orthodoxy in a fascinating way. I learned a lot.

@eduds6

4 жыл бұрын

@@Mygoalwogel Luther was not anti-semitic, this is blatantly anachronistic.

@bradenglass4753

3 жыл бұрын

Because it's a heresy.

@Dilley_G45

2 жыл бұрын

@@eduds6 probably that's awoke pc sorry to be white westerner Elca guy who's calling Luther antisemitic. Luther was surely against judaizers but not a racial anti-semit.

@Dilley_G45

2 жыл бұрын

Christian leaders as opposed to lds leaders? It's not in the Bible andnlds is a different religion from Christianity

Learn what the Messiah (Jesus the Christ) taught. What is needed is to know what He taught and why. Sin (Self Inflicted Neglect) cause God to be unable to bless you - regardless of all the 'fun' you 'think' you are having. But that is what the rod is for - for those who will not follow the staff, and why everybody shows up AFTER they've been broken. Pray for those (the enemies) who are sufferring (having fun) that God would 'break them' sooner than later. Leave them alone, and let the dead bury the dead. IF tiu try to cast your pearls of wisdom before them, they will only see them as stumbling blocks, will then turn and trample you. Do not stand in the way of a sinner - if they are destined for the fire, let the fire do it's work. For though their works are burn't up - the person themselves will be saved... as if escaping through a fire. The seat of the scornful - the Throne of Judgement belongs to God alone, and those who claim it as accussers are but the devils whom they claim to have overcome. Do what you do in 'love'... otherwise when the Messiah returns He will not care about the demons you cast out in His name, because it will not have been for Him, but for the zeal of the Father's house that the works were done. Instead, be ready to recieve them, cut their debts down and forgive them, as you would like to be forgiven, then they will recieve you, and if then you come in His name... then they also will recieve the Lord. When they see you... they should see the Son, and if the Son, then the Father. Shalom.

He denied a literal hell.He subordinated Jesus to a created being. He is behind the Catholic Church teachings on transubstantiation. He was an idea man but that does't make him a perfect scholar. True Scripture comes from Antioch where the apostles taught. Acts 10:37 The word...first published....= Bible Christians first called "Christians in Acts/Antioch. Alexandria Egypt is occult center of the world very new age! God forbids us to get anything out of Egypt! Origen's Words are out of Egypt!

IF you want to 'fix' these writings - give me a call. The place is Ai - Ai means 'house of ruins'. I have 'THE' Theodicy... and you don't need anything but a bible for me to teach it to you, no calculus required. We DON'T know what we are doing. There is a very good reason that Jesus refers to the son of man in the 3rd person - always 'the'. God 'created' man. Lord God 'formed' man. The Lord is the logos, the word, that separated these two sides. It's like a stack... God Lord Lord God God did NOT restrict us from eating of ANY TREE, it was Lord God that said that. Lord God knows good AND evil. See Isaiah 45:7 for clarity. If you need help... call.

If Origen taught the pre-existence of the soul and if he taught universal salvationism, he taught heresy. Did he teach these things? His contemporaries say he did. The fact that of all the Church Fathers only he and Tertullian were never called saints by the Church says a lot. We don't know if Origen castrated himself or not but I don't see how it would be wrong of him to do so, if he was concerned about his chastity. (Of course if all will be saved, chaste or no, why bother castrating oneself?)

You are just wobbling and bobling. Make your point straight forward. Wasted 20 minutes for little info.

Did this dude just imply castrating yourself is admirable? 🤪🤪🤪

Just read Origen's "First Principles" I'm halfway through it and he DEFINITELY holds to... 1) Reincarnation 2) Human being being fallen Angels 3) Satan being redeemable 4) Works Salvation 5) Purgatory (he pretty much invented it) 6) Either Annihilationist or Universalism, but definitely not hell. 7) The Pre-Existence of the Soul 8) That Human Bodies were not their original form, but the consequence of the fall 9) That Christians can lose their salvation 10) That Jesus and the Holy Spirit were created beings, and angels themselves. There is no end to the number of factual and scriptural errors that he holds to, but he certatainly doesn't limit himself to the Scriptures as authoritative over spiritual things. He quotes "Wisdom of Solomon"; "Enoch"; "2 Maccabees"; "Sirach"; "Baruch"; etc. Dude was a heretic in every way that matters. Unfortunately, he got much right about the Trinity, so even though he got EVERYTHING wrong about the Gospel, he gets a pass in the Roman Catholic tradition.

@OnTheThirdDay

Жыл бұрын

8 and 9 are held to by Christians today and 9 is Biblical. (I know some protest, but any honest reader of the Bible should admit that there are several passages that directly sound like that is that they mean.) That said, I really am commenting because of 10. I am not sure how you say that he got the trinity right if he also though that Jesus and the Spirit are created? There is a difference between created and caused in many church father's thinking, so I am not sure if that is what is causing confusion.

the spirit, not soul preexisted God know us before the foundation of the world. Ya God losses billons of times, satan wins 99% of souls >

Wow.. pretty condescending for someone who claims to follow Christ

@bradenglass4753

3 жыл бұрын

Who, Cooper? Wtf are you talking about

@Dpiiiius

3 жыл бұрын

@@bradenglass4753 but why are you cussing him out? Completely unwarranted. Some type of fake christian smh. KZread "Christians" like you are why a lot of people interested in Christianity end up allergic to it

I stopped the video right after he pronounced Origen “wrong”

Sry, Origen was heretic. Great Scholar. Great Philosopher. GREAT LINGUIST when it comes to Hebrew and Greek. Terrible Exegete. Still a heretic. There are many other early saints that I would really love reading and that I can forgive their confusion on doctrines.

@dennistakashima2449

5 жыл бұрын

I forgot to mention, Great linguist for MORE than above languages.

@timvickers947

4 жыл бұрын

Origen teaches and the word of god says. 1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.so why do you say he is a heretic?

You: "Origin had some views which were later condemned by ecumenical councils, and so he had some strange views, strange ways of reading Scripture...". Are you even serious, Jordan? Where to even start? The ecumenical councils you mention are Catholic: you are not Catholic, remember? Origin was later condemned by an ecumenical council and your conclusion is that he thus had some strange views and exegesis... what about Luther then, Jordan? Luther's ideas were condemned by an ecumenical council as well: is your conclusion now that his views and exegesis are strange as well? Or is this solely Origin's fate for some reason? Unbelievable. One heretic discussing another heretic by referring to the Catholic faith... things should not become more insane. Can you make things a little more confusing still next time? Is this the newest trend among heretics: discussing other heretics from a Catholic viewpoint, so they appear to their listeners as orthodox? Absolutely unbelievable.

@bradenglass4753

3 жыл бұрын

You are deranged, typical Roman Catholic cultist

@pierreschiffer3180

3 жыл бұрын

@@bradenglass4753 Thank you, Braden, for your personal insults. Play the man instead of the ball: Christian persecution, as Jesus Himself foretold... thank you again, my friend.

@bradenglass4753

3 жыл бұрын

@@pierreschiffer3180 your heretical abomination of a church has been the most feared and reviled persecutor in Christian history 2nd only to the decian Roman persecution. Shameful.

@pierreschiffer3180

3 жыл бұрын

@@bradenglass4753 Thank you again for your attacks and name calling against Jesus and His people, my friend. Like I wrote before: it is all foretold by Jesus and nothing new. Now, my friend: come! Nobody will find salvation by following a man, not even if that man is Martin Luther... come, my friend, and follow Jesus instead!

@bradenglass4753

3 жыл бұрын

@@pierreschiffer3180 the church and it people, the remnant of christ is antithetical to your church. The allegedly unchanging church is refuted by Trent and Vatican II's contradictions, sorry basic history bothers you.

Jesus is a muslim

@josephtravers777

2 жыл бұрын

A Muslim prophet

@Dilley_G45

2 жыл бұрын

If this was a muslimistic country youd get beheaded. Religion of peace. The peace of Hiroshima after the explosion. No birds no insects no nothing