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Dorian Yates didn't really do just one set. He did "warm up" sets too, and they were actually pretty heavy compared to how other people warmed up

@rl00668

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, they were essentially ramping sets

@marksifuentes1002

Жыл бұрын

@@rl00668 yea, ramping, and he did prefatique sets too. It's so misleading lol

@xenophon598

Жыл бұрын

The part of HIT people dont seem to get is the intensity. Dorian was basically doing RPE 9-10 on every top set and then he rested for the week. Not everyone can do this, or wants to. You can get your intensity like Dorian, or you can get your intensity with lower weight and more volume, but you need intensity no matter which way you pick. The average gym goer just never learns what intensity is. They want to breeze through a workout and make gains.

@joachimjustinmorgan4851

Жыл бұрын

@@xenophon598 RPE 10 would be max effort. By doing forced reps, drops sets, and assisted reps Dorian was essentially going beyond RPE 10 a lot of the time. RPE 10 was the minimum.

@joshuapeek9555

Жыл бұрын

@@marksifuentes1002 he didnt do "pre fatigue" lol

Personally HIT is the best program I've ever used to make progress. I'm less injured, more motivated, and stronger using this system. That being said I think you need to train 2 to 3x a week to get the proper benefits not 1x a week. 7 days off is just too long. I think 2x a week could be a sweet spot with things like yoga in between on your off days. It's fantastic for martial artists, race car drivers, action sports athletes like skateboarders/skiers, endurance athletes and other athletes where lifting is just an adjacent skill and you don't need to be sore all the time. Slinging heavy weight around 5 to 6 times a week destroyed my body and HIT is fixing it.

@yipperdeyip

Жыл бұрын

I've been lazy as hell and doing a PPL only once a week and I've been seeing more gains than ever before. This is shorter than the garbage I've been doing before, less problematic on the joints and it leaves so much more time for other things in your life.

@Worlds.Strongest.Mauro10

Жыл бұрын

You can lift heavy everyday and be just fine. YOU probably had a bad time because of improper load management

@summondominion

Жыл бұрын

@@Worlds.Strongest.Mauro10 who said HIT is light weights? Lmfao as a matter of fact you go as heavy as possible. When i started doing hit i could do 155 pounds on bench for a 2 min set....i can now do 225 for 2 min and 315 for 70 seconds...im trying to get to a 90 seconds by the end of the year. Lets see you put 315 on the bar and do slow 10 second reps for 70 seconds. Your problem is you dont know what volume or load actually is My 315 for 70 seconds for one set to failure is more volume or load on the muscle than anything youre doing.

@summondominion

Жыл бұрын

@johnsmith keep going bro. Ive trained HIT for almost a decade...i trained volume for over a decade before that. I reached my genetic potential as far as size on volume...BUT....im stronger now on HIT i have way more time, my body looks better on HIT, and i don't hurt all the time.

@UnderPeruvianSky

Жыл бұрын

@@summondominion Yeah im down, i want to start 4 to 6 compounds 3 times a week, 1 warm and 1 10 second set, move on to the next.I have a good foundation of fitness.

I've taken the Mentzer plan to the extreme, I've been doing one rep per body part, I'm in and out of the gym in about 30 seconds.

@eliteman58

5 ай бұрын

@rubeno.1195 Make sure to rest 1 year between workouts. You may still be overtrained.

@ianwilson4841

4 ай бұрын

You're overtraining

@dr.niggasmirtz3472

3 ай бұрын

me too, i only walk up the first step in the staircase at the gym

@abuhaadiyah9403

Ай бұрын

You win 😂

@stevemann1299

Ай бұрын

Yeah let's see what you are holding when you are 61. I have 25 years olds asking me for advice. HIT rules. Volume sucks. The words starting to spread now.

another thing to consider for newer lifters is the learning curve for performing exercises properly AKA developing a skill. squats and deadlifts are not that easy to get right!! performing hundreds of sets over time helps build that confidence to really go heavy in the first place.

i agree, i don't train with one set because dorian yates does it, i tried because i was sick of high volume, he recommended it, i tried it, i got acceptable results, so i continue to do it, i encourage people to try things on their own and see how they respond. i would recommend it to everyone, and encourage people to test new things out.

@stevemann1299

Ай бұрын

There's no 1 set. You do 1 to 2 warm up sets for the big ones like bench and deads. Then one working set to failure. And thats it. No more. Go home rest eat and wait until you are rearing to get back in the gym and feel buff. Not a moment sooner.

Doing HIT is the best decision i’ve ever made

@MrDeanmfitz

Жыл бұрын

The best decision you ever made was deciding to lift!

@wintertime331

Жыл бұрын

@@MrDeanmfitz whatever, hit works and is working for him !

@andrewtanczyk4009

Жыл бұрын

Same here!

@ahmedmido-pb8fi

Жыл бұрын

​@@MrDeanmfitz hey bro can you give me a programm and help me. Am in over training 😢😢😢

@ahmedmido-pb8fi

Жыл бұрын

​@@andrewtanczyk4009 hey bro can you give me a programm and help me. Am in over training 😢😢😢

Getting way quicker gains doing HIT, plus all the issues I was having with tendonitis and chronic fatigue have disappeared because I'm giving my body so much time to recover.

@dark-brandon

10 ай бұрын

​@Mantastic-ho3vm😂

@notimeforsleep9581

10 ай бұрын

Same. I had more injuries with high volume training

@dark-brandon

10 ай бұрын

@Mantastic-ho3vm it's been a month, and he never responded. 🤣

@notimeforsleep9581

10 ай бұрын

@Mantastic-ho3vm 2 -3 warm up sets, which I haven’t changed to this day. Then I would do the heaviest weight possible 1 working set and do a drop set. Id repeat that 5 more times for 1 muscle group training 1.5 hrs a day 5 days a week up to twice a day with naps in between is how I built my foundation. Because I was not recovering in between workout sufficiently I tore my ligament and chest muscle on superset occasions. Id use body moment to swing the weight up like Arnold BIG MISTAKE. Hit involves proper form to failure without compromising form whatsoever. That is why it’s safer cuz it also allows more recovery. If you do hit Monday Wednesday friday. And Monday comes up and your not recovering. Well that’s a sign you need a break to allow proper recovery and growth. So I would allow rest up to Wednesday or whenever my body is ready to train again then continue the 3 days but starting Wednesday. You can’t have have high volume and high intensity. Because both leads to over training. Over training causes joint damage and weak bones. And high cortisol levels which lead to no growth as it inhitbts muscle protein synthesis.

@richardduplessis1090

9 ай бұрын

this just means that you never understood how to train properly and eat correctly.

Comment section proving Alex just how much of a cult HIT is 🤣 🤣

I found more success from one set per exercise than standard protocols but that is mainly due to how much easier it was for me to stick with. It has value and merit but it isn't the "only" or even best way. It has just been the best for me.

@binchili

Жыл бұрын

What exercises do u do?

@INfeATHu

Жыл бұрын

@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines You’re literally in every single HIT video I’ve probably come across, and you’re commenting nonsense under each and everyone. Seek psychiatric help immediately. You’re not big, you’re not strong, and you don’t know what you’re talking about. For someone who keeps calling everyone a liar and demanding “proof” from them, you don’t have a single video of your supposedly impressive physique anywhere on your channel.

@g9992

11 ай бұрын

If you need a third set on a single exercise what were you doing the first 3 sets?

@ryanrogers8211

11 ай бұрын

@@g9992 building up volume for muscle gains.

@himeshsinghshishodiya

7 ай бұрын

The guy below you answered your question, which was mathematically wrong to begin with lol. If I'm doing the third set now then how did I do 3 sets first? These Mentzer fanboys are crazy lol. @@g9992

Arthur Jones, Mike Mentzer and Dorian Yates gave RECOVERY the space that it needs. I am 58 and the reduced stress on joints and prior injuries makes it the best approach instead of volume. Also, let's not underestimate the TIME that you are getting back. I have plenty to do that bumps a volume approach workout down the to-do list. Now, I can do a workout and immediately put the next workout on the calendar and know that 30 minutes is enough. I also do HIIT sprinting and bike sprinting. I am not a cultist, I just know that for me, this works for the reasons I have given.

@stevemann1299

23 күн бұрын

Right life's short. If you can get AT LEAST the same results from one 30 minute workout a week. As some doughnut training 6 days a week 2 hours a day. It's a no brainer. HIT RULES for alltime.

I’ve been doing one set training for a couple years now. Been successful in gaining weight, muscle, strength. At first I was doing mostly compounds and full body, so I was leaving a rep or two in the tank. But upon reading about DC training I started using rest pause, and more machines intermixed. Gained even more muscle even in my legs which was surprising. Now I’m doing the “Heavy Duty” experiment and seeing how going to beyond failure and adding rest days according to my body’s needs. So far so good. I’m letting my program write itself based on how my body reacts, and my own time schedule. Most of the people that detract from HIT don’t seem to have ever even tried it for any significant amount of time. Here’s what I know: if you’re getting stronger, over long periods of time, in a slight caloric surplus, then you are building muscle. If you run a program, and you accomplish those metrics of progression, then the program is successful. So far, HIT has been successful for me

@iang8169

9 ай бұрын

I do one warm up set , one failure set on each exercise and can leave the gym after 45 min . it may or may not be the optimal program for me but unless you don't have a job , how can anyone devote 2 hrs a session in the gym ? That's not practical

@himeshsinghshishodiya

7 ай бұрын

It is practical but maybe not for everyone. Depends on what kind of job and lifestyle you have. @@iang8169

The funniest part about that Jay Vincent guy is he posts “testimonials” every few days that are literally just a wall of text that he could have typed up himself. It’s ofcourse always about how the person used HIT training and gained 15 pounds of muscle in just 3 weeks lmao.

@binchili

Жыл бұрын

I see HIT isn't that Good ?

@mdd1963

Жыл бұрын

His latest hype is a client losing a total of 4 pounds in only 2 months! :)

Fazlifts did a video on this, and it was excellent. Both Dorian, and Mentzer were getting volume from their warm up sets. They were doing more warm up sets, and those sets were hard sets. All that is really happening with that is they did their top sets after, while most people do them before. They were quite literally just going all out on their last set just like hundreds of bodybuilders. Everybody just looks at that last set as the only set. Biological systems require a consistent signal to adapt volume gets people there very efficiently by supplying that signal more times. This shit shouldn't even be on the table for debate anymore.

@ryanconnolly6703

Жыл бұрын

Mentzer and Yates made it very clear that their warm up sets were not challenging in the least bit.

@stevenhanna8768

Жыл бұрын

In mentzer's heavy duty he advocates for only 1-2 warm up sets. He did do quite a bit of general warm up and stretching, but his high intensity protocol had very few warm up sets (according to his books and video series). Franco colombo and other contemporaries say that mike and his brother achieved their physiques with multi hour sessions and traditional volume training and not with the HIT protocols that they later advocated.

@Fazlifts

Жыл бұрын

@@ryanconnolly6703 I was taught by a guy who was taught directly from Dorian in the late 90s. He lived an hour away from where I grew up. Most around here train in that way, or at least most used to in the early 2000s. Yes while they said that it was 'one top set' that is all very relative. In practice the warm up sets were to or very close to failure (roughly 0-2 RiR in todays terms). However they weren't counted as actual sets and the final set was the 'proper' set which was done to failure, and beyond with forced reps and negatives. So I know they said that, but what was considered 'challenging' was very relative to the final set.

@thesonofzeus6145

Жыл бұрын

John Meadows always talked about this as well. The HIT guys did ramping sets up to their failure set, but only counted the failure set as a working set. They actually didn’t train much differently than the volume guys, they just counted their sets differently.

@mertonhirsch4734

Жыл бұрын

@@ryanconnolly6703 Mentzer was averaging 120 sets per week to failure under Arthur Jones, and in the final two years of his competitive career he cut it to (by his own words) a minimum of 60 sets to failure per week (reading his program he typically did about 90 sets to failure per week, but said he even did even better when he cut to about 60 sets to failure. He also rode his bike up to 120 miles a week). Dorian's programs would put him at around 30-40 sets to failure a week. His last warmups sets on major exercises were pretty hard if we use load and reps to gauge.

Training one set to failure on select lifts over the course of the week, isn't in and of itself a bad thing. It needs to be taken as a part of an overall program. The warm up and back off sets on the day of, plus a volume routine with that lift or an associated lift on an off day.

Had 3 high intensity workouts in my 1st year. Failed me in my second year after realizing it’s limitations in expanding overall work accumulation. You’d be burnt out and under practiced. Performance skyrocketed after addressing weaknesses ( higher volume & progression through controlled effort vs high intensity and go all out)

@whitemakesright2177

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. I've had much more success training less intensely but more frequently.

Despite the fact that your blood was boiling I thought your response was delivered in such a measured, thoughtful, common sense way that I took my 3 sets of blood pressure readings while watching your video (all 3 readings were in the “normal” range). I have only recently commenced training with weights to combat age-related sarcopenia and have been getting information from various fitness content channels and now I am going to take a look at some more of your video content. Thanks for posting.

So I watched a few of Jay's videos... And here are some misconceptions that some people think about his training method... He doesn't recommend powerlifters Olympic lifters train like this unless in their off season to help give their joints a break... He also recommends drop sets or a second working set I you haven't achieved actual failure with your first set... Anyone who has done super squats knows what can be achieved with one set too... I hope this helps

Since January I’ve been working out at planet fitness and have been doing Mike Mentzers workout that you can find here on KZread. I do chest/triceps, rest 4 days then do back/shoulders/biceps, rest 4 days and do legs. Then restart the program. The same workout, every time, I don’t even count reps even though Mike was very outspoken about keeping a log of your reps. I have gone from 150 to 175 in 8 1/2 months! And am now close to maxing every machine there. I super set every exercise. I also get about 5 hours of sleep and I’ve not payed attention to my diet at all. HIT absolutely works

I will cycle HIT periodically in my routine. It is another tool in your drawer. When competing in the late 80s in BB I used HIT (not Dorian’s level) but drop sets and lots of super sets. My workouts took about an hour, and I won my third show. I also had good success in using conjugate and strongman in the early 2000s.

@mrkrabskraps7085

10 ай бұрын

I want to see your prime physique now

@bloodeagle2945

9 ай бұрын

The earlier HIT version by Mike Mentzer has lots of supersets, he said it is designed for those with good to excellent recovery ability. He then realized that it is too much for the average of his clients, that's why he reduced the volume. kzread.info/dash/bejne/gYV8zqaFqtnQqZs.htmlsi=Haz7gWrFns_HK4tu this is the routine.

@christianbolt5761

9 ай бұрын

@@mrkrabskraps7085 My physique is very good now. I can still compete and do well if I wanted. No joint issues to this day.

I do two sets per exercise, two exercises per muscle groups. It has worked great for me. Less sets force me to push each one. I do single set training during Ramadan to avoid sweating too much.

@ahmedmido-pb8fi

Жыл бұрын

Hey bro hey bro can you give me a programm and help me. Am in over training 😢😢😢 And happy ramadan❤

@jahimuddin2306

Жыл бұрын

@ahmed mido , My bodybuilding program was six days: Day 1-Legs, Day 2-Back, Day 3-Chest, repeat, rest on Sunday. I do a big compound for each muscle group, followed by a smaller isolation (IE: RDL, Squat, Glute Bridge, BSS)

The bro In his car is hilarious

@anthonyluisi7096

Жыл бұрын

Jay Vincent ? Who ?

@MrDeanmfitz

Жыл бұрын

Jay vincent is an angry hit worshipper who exudes cockiness

@JayVincentFitness

Жыл бұрын

In a car you’ll never be able to afford ;)

@nealeade5783

Жыл бұрын

It’s not that jay is aggressive in opinions at all, his opinions are based on factual research and proof driven studies so why wouldn’t you listen to him?

@MrDeanmfitz

Жыл бұрын

@@JayVincentFitness wow good 1

My best gains came from 5-3-1 style workouts. Whatever style you use, just make sure to track it so know you are maintaining progressive overload and celebrate your progress along the way.

@alejandrocortes3341

8 ай бұрын

this

Great talk and better understanding thanks

I am currently using HIT a la Jay Vincent describes and I can say that I am on a bro split training each muscle once per week. I am making gains on the weight and/or reps each week which is surprising to me. That being said, I 100% respect the approach taken in this video. Very based response thoroughly covering the topics and making sure everything is apples to apples. No one brings up the fact that Dorian (and Mentzer) trained with heavier loads with nasty grindy all-out reps. That is NOT how Jay recommends to train. Jay is definitely a Henneman Size principle guy which makes sense scientifically. Now that being said, I am not sure if this is all optimal. What I do know for sure it is safe and I have no pretentions of winning strongman records I just want to reach my own genetic potential. I do not care how much weight is on the bar.

@drewmorg.

Жыл бұрын

Update: 9 weeks in, I'm up 5 pounds from starting weight. I have changed nothing else about my diet protocol, still eating only 2 meals a day, no protein shakes, pills, powders, or PED's. Zero self induced injuries and no aches or pains. Will continue this for a while.

@mihaeltomasovic

Жыл бұрын

@@drewmorg. Congratulations! That is fantastic. you know what Mike Mentzer used to say... Take your base kcals, what you need to maintain your current weight (all things included) to get your basal metabolic rate, and then if you are super optimistic to think you will gain 30lbs of lean muscle in a single year, add just shy of 50 kcals daily to that. He said, even go crazy, add in 250 extra (six times his suggestion that he knows worked for him and his many many clients natural and enhanced). It doesn't matter when you take them in as long as you have energy to put out maximum effort. I'm so glad to hear of your success! It is really a breath of fresh air to hear someone training naturally again (I can't talk, I went to the dark side a bit early in life while still doing insane high volume to be able to do even higher volume... And it made my physique not much better outside the initial gains until I incorporated principles of heavy duty and "Blood and Guts" training). So a very big congrats, and I wish you so well on your progress buddy! Please, let me know how you are doing in a couple more months and if you want to chat on a better app than YT comment sections lemme know and I'll give you my email and provide you there with my diff contact info.

@tatuco8

Жыл бұрын

Congrats man. I've just started HIT Jay vincent style. I can see how it works, it makes sense. Im excited by the poential results. Other youtubers swear by slow HIT. Bulldogmindset is a big youtuber who converted to HIT and endorses Jay vincent 100%. Drew Baye has an awesome channel on HIT also.

@stevegrogan1264

Жыл бұрын

Well put. Jay was my coach when he lived in upstate NY. All I know is I struggled for years doing the 5-6 days per week, 60-75 minute workouts with the split between "strength days" and "cardio days," and then I started doing HIT...and suddenly I am in better shape now than I was at 26. (I am 46 now.)

@drewmorg.

Жыл бұрын

@@tatuco8 I watch both. It's finally gaining some traction. I remember trying HIT back when I was 18 after making all of my newbie gains on normal volume training for 6 months or so. My results slowed down probably from overtraining and genetic limitations, I am not a big guy and don't ever think I will be. When you're 18 though and gain 30 pounds of muscle in 3-4 months, you kind of assume it will keep going. HIT from Heavy Duty did not get me any special results so I went back to full body training and hitting body parts multiple times per week chronically overtrained condition for over 15 years. I have not made any new gains in that time pretty much until I went back to HIT like Jay teaches.

1 set for every man, woman & child in existence for every exercise for all goals - this is also apparently the best scientific, anecdotal and evidence based approach 🤣 Amazing how it's all so simple! Take notes Schoenfeld 🤣🤣/s On a serious note I think this is actually a really interesting case study of human belief systems, as HIT Jedis also seem to share quite a lot in common with other fringe groups...

@AlexanderBromley

Жыл бұрын

I didnt even get into the 21 conference thing....

@Fazlifts

Жыл бұрын

@@AlexanderBromley haha, I'm going to add my own rage in solidarity to yours next week with my input on this topic 😀

@thesonofzeus6145

Жыл бұрын

Yeah huge red flag when someone claims that everyone else is wrong and they have discovered some ultimate truth. Anti vaxers, flat earthers, HIT jedis, it’s all the same crap. Ignoring all of the evidence and just clinging onto radical ideas.

@Copeman9999

Жыл бұрын

HIT works well with accessories for me. Main lifts need more practice though, Jay actually talks about that quite a bit in some of his videos, I’ve heard him say that at least 2-3 times. Especially skill based lifts like squats

@simranbiryani3068

Жыл бұрын

@@AlexanderBromley That 21 conference is insane. Dudes literally preach about how women should be slaves to their husband, not be allowed to work and only be baby makers. So gross.

I don’t do HIT traditionally, but I do much lower volumes. 4 sets per muscle per week, split between 2 full body workouts. I like to train to failure. Remember, the best training style is the one you will be consistent with.

@DackDavenport

Жыл бұрын

That sounds like my workout, I'm a former HIT advocate and will return to it one day maybe.

One could also argue that Dorian got injured because he at times was using explosive movements during training just like you said he did. Which the more modern approach to HIT is using strict form with a slow cadence until failure which would help negate injury. Also, Yates has said the times he got injured was because he was preparing for shows and was to lean and dehydrated while still trying to push heavy weight to build muscle, when he should have just been trying to maintain what he already had and keep conditioning himself for the show.

you can keep your 3 to 4 or 5 set training a muscle 2 to 3 times a week , 1 set does me better I've noticed it helping me to grow, more is not better, it only takes me 30 minutes to do my workout, all the sets I was doing I realized I was overtrained after going to the 1 set program 3 times a week after I had rested for a week before starting the 1 set program my joints began to show me the hidden aches that were unaware and didn't come to light till after I quit the 3 to 4 set program ! personally I have better things to do than babysit and nurse hurting and plagued joint problems from 2 many sets, 1 set maybe 2 if I feel like I didn't go to failure on the first set, then rest the muscle for at least 4- 7 days before I work it again, I believe this is best for anyone older or a beginner!

@EnigmaticAnamoly

7 ай бұрын

A beginner? Absolutely not. MM himself said HIT is best reserved for people who already have a considerable amount of muscle mass.

@ianwilson4841

4 ай бұрын

I need week off as wekk. My joints dint recover like they ised to. Even 4 days off is pushing it for ne. I just hate waiting 7 days between workouts

The reason HIT works for people (and I use the term "works" very losely) is that 90% of gym goers are very lazy and they don't have any concept of RIR. So they used to come to the gym and do 5 useless lazy sets with tons of gas still left on the tank and they didn't progress. Now they come to the gym and instead of 5 useless sets they do 2 useless sets (the warmups) and actually try to go hard on the last set because since they only have one chance to make it work they focus more on it. So effectively they went from 5 useless sets to 1 useful set and they finally see some - not much but still 100% better than before - progress. Obviously they could just learn how to train properly but after 2 decades of experience I realized that 95% of the people will NEVER learn how to train properly no matter what happens because they are allergic to hard work. HIT gives them a simple enough template to follow so that they can still make some progress without having to learn how to train hard and manage fatigue correctly.

@bloodeagle2945

7 ай бұрын

I agree with that and there's a reason why Mike said 1 set is enough: it's because it's better to perform more reps whether it is assisted or force, static hold then negative reps-and it's true that people misconcept that those last reps are the most dangerous, but it is the initial reps. When your muscles are getting fatigued, it's warmer, you're more focused and you're using less muscle fibers, and those are slow-twitch type which provides better control and stability.

You articulated that perfectly

Non of these people train anywhere near as hard as Yates did, and guess what? Even Yates got fucked up from his training.

@GuiltyBystander8

Жыл бұрын

thats because he pushed himself HARD when he was very close to competition.

@wintertime331

Жыл бұрын

@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines lol , please do 😝

@majungasaurusaaaa

Жыл бұрын

Yates with his "strict form " tore stuff left and right.

I like H.I.T but I have always responded well to all out set to failure. Do keep in mind I have done 3-5 warm up sets before that 1 all out set and train my body twice in a week with every 5th week being a deload. It really comes down to what works for you.

I pride myself on training hard. But if I had needed to train as hard as Dorian did there at his peak all of these 34 years I've been training (in order to get the results I've gotten), I probably would have quit long ago and never reached my potential. Likewise, if I had to train 6 days a week, twice a day, two hours each workout, 20-40 sets per bodypart all of these years to get my results, I would not have stuck with it very long. I think a middle of the road approach is better for most people - particularly those of us not on PEDs, and not trying to be an IFBB pro or world champion powerlifter. After several years of experimentation in my college years, I realized that I got better results from training 4 days a week than I did from training either 3 days a week or training 5-6 days a week. And that I generally got better results training 45-60 minutes each session than I did training less than 45-60 minutes, or much longer than 60 minutes. I just make sure that I train very hard, know what I will do ahead of time, and waste no time during that 45-60 minutes. I have long noticed that I will see a serious dip in performance after much more than an hour of weight training, and I end up just doing "junk volume". As for how hard to train, I have always generally stopped work sets just short of needing assistance. Where the last rep is tough but manageable - very rarely actually "failing" to complete a rep. I can measure what I have done when I squat 405 for 10 reps with perfect form, full ROM, no pauses at the top, and no assistance. But I cannot measure what I did if someone grabs ahold of me and helps me complete a couple more reps. Furthermore, I find it distracting and potentially dangerous. As well, if one is deliberately using some degree of "cheating" on some or all reps of sets of an exercise (think bent-over rows, lateral raises, pullups, etc), isn't that technically going somewhat beyond failure? Does anyone here actually do lateral raises and bent rows, t-bar rows, etc 100% super strict? This all becomes difficult to quantify if one allows themselves to get too caught up in the minutiae. As for rep speed, I also agree that slow reps are inferior to more traditional rep speeds. As long as I am controlling the weight, I see no need to do these ridiculously slow reps I have seen Mentzer advise people to do in those old videos he was training people in 20+ years ago. I don't see the benefit in generally lifting lighter weights than I am capable of, and in training in such a way that will limit future strength gains.

@NCRonrad

Жыл бұрын

That’s an insane amount of time in the gym/training mode. Hope you’re performing like Batman at this point. Or you just find peace in the gym instead of with family/hobbies

@phenriquerocha1337

Жыл бұрын

@@NCRonrad how is 45-60min 4x week an insane amount of time?

@NCRonrad

Жыл бұрын

@@phenriquerocha1337 multiply that out by 52 weeks m8. Then try 10 years. As far as training stimulus goes and the effect of genetics, that precious time can go towards family, a business, hikes in nature, gardening/farming, etc. I know in this society, men would be far more happy being in close proximity to other sweaty , scantily clothed men, so it’s no surprise how resistant people are to reducing gym “therapy “ or gym “church.”

@Oceanstone69

Жыл бұрын

@@NCRonrad You bring up an excellent point about time management. And no doubt most men my age don't look the way I do or spend the time (and especially the effort) I put into training. I do know many people my age who spend hours a day pretty much every day drinking in bars after work. Some of them are also heavy smokers. I look and feel far better than they do, and I don't spend a fortune on alcohol and tobacco the way so many do. I do know people who commute to work 5 days a week in a nearby large city who literally spend 20 hours a week commuting - they're spending most of that time either stopped or moving very slowly through heavy traffic. Fortunately for me, I have owned my own business for a number of years and work out of my own home. My home is pretty centrally located in a medium sized city without too much traffic, and with everything I need a short drive away. In addition to the nearly 4 hours a week I spend weight training, I also do 30 minutes of cardio after each weight workout. So that brings me to nearly six hours a week of gym time. I have a rather nice home gym that I use most of the time, which saves any time commuting, waiting for a piece of equipment to become available, etc. With that said, I do go about once a week to a great nearby commercial gym - it can be somewhat motivational being in close proximity to other sweaty, scantily clothed men. But seriously, it seems as though most people at commercial gyms do waste a lot of time when they're there - it seems to be a social outlet for many. I've noticed that I actually seem to spend less time in the gym than most other serious/semi-serious trainees. When I go to the commercial gym, many guys and some gals who are already there when I get there are still there when I'm leaving after I've done an hour on the weights and 30 minutes on the treadmill. They seem to spend a lot of time between sets talking, texting, etc. I spend probably about 100 hours a week combined time doing the two essential activities of sleeping and working. Add the six hours of gym time, and I've still got a good 60 hours a week to spend with my woman, visiting with friends, reading, cooking, eating/eating out, trips to the beach, shopping, hanging out at my pool, watching tv while surfing the web, strumming my electric guitar, personal hygiene, etc. etc. Not one to hike, garden, farm, etc., and I outsource my yardwork/landscaping, mechanic work, home maintenance, etc. It's very hot and humid most of the year where I live.

@NCRonrad

Жыл бұрын

@@Oceanstone69 gym sounds like your sanctuary, and I’m slyly commenting that you’ve got to be lifting amd running Batman #’s Good to point out that those long gym hours could easily be spent boozing and wasted - def way better

Dudes will look in the camera so matter of fact and just tell you something they think they know “you’re doing it wrong” … and the unspoken part is “and im doing it right because i ‘know’ something everyone else doesnt” and meanwhile they are just wrong the whole time 😂

@MrSpicabooo

Жыл бұрын

Story of my life lol

@aneetpatel8819

Жыл бұрын

The Dunning Kruger effect 👌

I’ve been a competitive powerlifter for 14 years, but I have always been attracted to HIT philosophy since Dorian Yates was Mr. Olympia (before I even started lifting for real). I wished HIT worked for strength. 😄 But since I don’t have any competitions on the horizon, and time has been very tight for me in recent months, I’ve been training that way lately. I think it’s viable for muscle building, but under one condition: you MUST push yourself beyond your initial threshold for “failure”. I think that’s why it worked for Dorian, and why DC seems to work well. If you can get another rep or 2 after a 20 second rest, then that first “fail” didn’t empty the tank.

@ReschDMD

Жыл бұрын

This has always been my opinion. I think true HIT works, but that the vast majority of people don't teach that "true failure" to hit the trigger. There's a certain mind-muscle connection needed. "Whew I'm beat" isn't the same as mentzer's theoretical "every fiber is exhausted."

@ralphwarom2514

Жыл бұрын

Why is no one mentioning the drugs. Because with enough steroids, you can grow on ZERO sets per week :D So sure one set per week works.

@fadingship935

Жыл бұрын

HIT works for muscular strength just as well as(maybe even more) than powerlifting training. But the thing is powerlifting is not just about muscular strength. The neurological adaptations to benchpress squat deadlift is tremendously important when you lift heavy, so you have to practice a lot of them to develop that. Think of it this way, someone could have extremely powerful chest and triceps, but never bench pressed in his life. His bench press would be equal to an intermediate gymgoers bench.

@whitemakesright2177

Жыл бұрын

What worked for Dorian and Mentzer was that they injected lots of PEDs. That alone invalidates them as examples for naturals.

Always makes me laugh when people bring up Yates and Mentzer for proof of why HIT works. Those guys looked the way they did because of heavy gear use and amazing genetics. Yates specifically was one of the first to abuse insulin which is why he had so much more mass than his competitors, it had nothing to do with how he trained. Mentzer was also a heavy drug abuser of all kinds which ended up killing him. At the top level of bodybuilding the best “coaches” are just the guys who have the best drug protocols. It’s all about who has the best genetic response to drugs and who can actually blast the most drugs without ending up dead. It’s a sick, sick sport.

@binchili

Жыл бұрын

So,what would u advice for the natty teen who's looking to build muscle?

@legalizedvape1949

Жыл бұрын

first of all dorian didnt even do dropsets and stuff, he only did if he didnt have a partner, and yes dorian was on shit loads of hear just like every other bodybuilder, but if he didnt train like he did he wouldnt have got gains like he did tho? If he didnt train he wouldnt have gotten near as much mass as he did. Ronnie was on shit loads of gear but still dorian got bigger with the way he did it

My only contention is that most people arguing for RPE/RIR have a background in strength sport where it is FAR easier to get a good estimate of RIR in those low rep sets. Once you're doing stuff > 8 reps per set, I feel like it is just ridiculously hard to get that RIR estimate right. Maybe its just me.

@bonkersdonkers7381

Жыл бұрын

I’m with you. This whole RPE business is really just guessing at those rep ranges. It’s much more objective training with higher percentages of your 1 RM.

@mianashhad9802

Жыл бұрын

Yeah. It's harder to guess to guess RPE in the higher rep ranges for me as well.

@binchili

Жыл бұрын

I'm fucking confused

@gustavocvieira8584

Жыл бұрын

I mean not really, If you don't how many reps to have for a certain weight, just go t failure on your first set, then in the following sets you'll know exactly where to stop

Really good and logical overview .

Seen a lot of guys who did Dorian training and get great results i did to. However adding volume and not training so hard worked much much better for me. Thats what every great bodybuilder I ever met did.

From what I understand on why no one uses HIT and it not being popular is simply as even Mentzer said "it's just too hard to do sustainably for most" or something along those lines. As someone who tried HIT and did it for a month, I can attest it develops PTSD like response to the psychological system as it is very demanding of focus and intensity. Albeit the main mistake I made was trying to do it almost like a regular exercise by doing it more than 2 times a week. Granted personally it is the best out of all in my 20 years of lifting experience. Not only do you have to go to the gym once a week/every 2 weeks, the gains are long lasting and keep building long after the exercise. Not to mention you put on a lot of mass fast. The one key aspect to take away from HIT that Jay and his interview with Drew was the intensity. You are trying to reach peak intensity of your muscle to get the result. So if you are doing it through multiple reps by spending 4 hours a day to get it finally versus 20 minutes then that's what it is or how you are built I guess or w/e. In which case sucks for you that you have to spend quarter of a day for 4-5 days a week trying to get muscle growth. It's important to get that intensity in the shortest time possible to get the most out of the growth.

@ahmedmido-pb8fi

Жыл бұрын

hey bro can you give me a programm and help me. Am in over training 😢😢😢

@Freddysal

10 ай бұрын

Agree. Excellent comment. Mentzer is up front about the relationship of results to intensity plus the genetic factor and outside variables like steroids and hormones that help the competitive bodybuilder but the average Joe isn’t looking for a freakish physique just the freakish results .

@Freddysal

10 ай бұрын

@@ahmedmido-pb8fi Just search High Intensity Training Program on KZread and you’ll see many videos of Mentzer’s workouts. Just know his earlier workouts are those where he trained 3-4 times a week but as he monitored his clients he realized results are better on workouts with at the very least 4 days off. And after a cycle of three 4 day workouts he recommends working out with 5-6 days of rest depending on your results. Good luck

@zemm9003

7 ай бұрын

HIT is a very easy way to train.

Beautiful rebuttal and very professional. I appreciate your attitude when having disagreements!

Thank you for this video

Well here is my experience, I was doing 5/3/1 but I didn't know what I was doing at first and didn't use boring but big part of it, that basically means 1 heavy set to failure and that's it. Well shit, hit the wall faster than a 2019 crypto investor. Started doing BBB which upped the volume and made me do all of the big 4 twice a week, I fuckin started to PR all over the place after one cycle(4 weeks). This is where I saw that volume can drive strength like a MFer...

I’ve run HIT. Worked great for me. Better than multiple hard sets? No, but probably equal and in less time. It makes no sense at all for competition lifting, only for muscle hypertrophy

Thank you for posting. I liked your assessment. You didn't refute various training styles and laid out good perspective. Well done.

I love how you instruct us without talking down to us.

This reminds me a little bit of the Bulgarian method and help although it’s absolutely amazing methodology 99% of the population would just fail at it. And yet, especially in CrossFit gyms where they don’t even really know how to lift people like to throw it around like it’s the ultimate secret. Yeah it’s the ultimate secret to injuries and failure to mastering or even honing in the technical aspects of lifts.

@MrAwseal

Жыл бұрын

@@terminator_405 a former coach of mine was Max Aita who trained under Abadjiev. I meet Max at Cal strength and followed him when he opened his own gym behind CrossFit Oakland. To make it perfectly clear I never did Bulgarian because well weightlifting never paid my bills. Lol. But I would get CrossFitters talking to me and telling me that they we’re going to do Bulgarian on top of their workouts. Which they never did. But anyway that’s why I made the comment. Yeah I value my life to much and my health to try these fad extreme workouts. But that doesn’t mean I don’t admire some of them. I just think it’s. “Silly” when people recommend them or Bragg about doing them. 👍🏼

I have tried training like Dorian did and although it was extremely fun I could not recover from it. After roughly two weeks I could barely sleep and had to back off. I think it can absolutely be helpful as a tool in the toolbox. A lot of people get good results from HIT.

I think body building and mental health go hand in hand. If you spend a lot of time working out, but if you don't focus on your mental health, then you won't get the results you want. If you are always stressed out and worrying about little things in your personal life, then number of hours at the gym won't give you the results you want. This was a big part of Arnold Schwarenegger's success. He said in his film Pumping Iron that he never let anything bother him or stressed him out. He didn't even let his father's death interfered him from focusing on Mr. Olympia.

Good video Alex 👍 Although I have great respect for guys like Dorian and Mentzer, but most people can't push themselves anywhere near to what these guys did. So most of us need a bit moderate approach where intensity is reasonably high and volume is also just optimal. Secondly, HIT is best done on machines where you can actually maintain proper form at and beyond failure. This is why this approach doesn't work for powerlifting and weightlifting because all competition lifts are freestanding and exponentially dangerous when pushed to failure during training sessions.

Really good points. Ive listened to Mentzer's audio clips, and he talks about how his methods are not for weight lifting or powerlifting competitors and especially for anything related to cardio.

@Morgainz88

10 ай бұрын

Exactly, I've never heard anyone say that HIT was the best approach for all scenarios. Bromley is strawmanning pretty hard.

@odowdma

8 ай бұрын

Jay Vincent, who this video is about, thinks that one set to failure on machines trains the cardiovascular system as well as any form of cardio, and he also thinks hit is superior for developing muscular strength. He gets this from Drew Bayle and Doug McGruff etc.

The only reason I have ever done 1 working set to failure. Is when time was an issue and I didn't have time even really warm up. I just wanted to get something in to not waste a day. Can't say if it could be effective. It was more a mental thing to feel like I did something.

@ugbuga99

Жыл бұрын

Same here bro

@HaloDude557

Жыл бұрын

I forget the exact number but there’s a study that suggests you can maintain strength and muscle mass with just 20% of usual volume.

@joshuapeek9555

Жыл бұрын

um.... 1 working set requires a tremendous amount of warming up lol

@wintertime331

Жыл бұрын

@@joshuapeek9555 not a tremendous amount , the bare minimum works just fine .

My n=1 study of a hard gaining natural athlete was that greatest responses to training (hypertrophy) where when sessions were varied in movement, but still full body, while maintaining higher frequency 🧐

@anthonyurso3554

Жыл бұрын

Training muscles with frequency is optimal. That makes sense because HIT is low volume per session. So you would be training each muscle multiple times a week with lower volume sessions with higher intensity. The only problem is need to figure out fatigue management strategy especially as get stronger. Some kind of protocol/protocols have to be put into place. Systemic fatigue will be an issue training muscles multiple times a week with high intensity

@adam-lt8iy

Жыл бұрын

That's because you're doing a bunch of skill based and high speed movements (judging by your videos), those require more frequency to reap the benefits from.

New favorite lifting channel. Great stuff man.

I legitimately just had this stuff come up as well, I had someone claiming that 3 sets of 10 reps is the same as 10 sets of 3 reps for your body and that there is no such thing as a “set” just pauses between reps

Remember how Kevin Levrone went from not working out to top level Olympia competitor in a few months with PEDs? That was crazy to see. Guys like Dorian and Kevin would look huge and ripped even if they swapped training routines. The genetics, diet, and ability to survive truck loads of PEDs (hgh, slin, testosterone, diuretics, etc.) go a long way. I have trained with 5 top level drug tested bodybuilders including Phillip Ricardo Jr. and 2 teen national bodybuilding champions. We weren't using HIT.

@shrexyboi1850

Жыл бұрын

What did you and Philip Ricardo Jr do when you trained?

@binchili

Жыл бұрын

@@shrexyboi1850 not HIT

So I’ve been training using Greg Nuckols’ Bulgarian Manual as a guideline for about three months consistently (before that I’ve flirted with it for small cycles). I can say with certainty that there isn’t a lack of volume at all when you train 6x per week-you actually handle obscene volume at the required intensity range, all without ever having more than 2-3 working sets for any main lift. Dorian also said this in interviews: he trained each muscle several times a week, meaning the volume added up very quickly

100% agree with your points. High intensity techniques work. High intensity training overall as a system, may work for some with varying results. I am not against it, but I am with you about being against "The Best Way," or ""Only Way." to train.

I have done extremely well with HIT although I have a slightly different style than Mentzer. I do Chest/shoulders, rest, back/rear delts, rest, arms, rest, legs, rest and repeat. I do usually around 3-4 sets per muscle group except for quads I only do 1 for quads so I’m ready to go by next leg day otherwise I’d be sore for a week and a half. But I’ve gained 40lbs with losing fat (not very much fat loss but a noticeable amount to me) in a year and a couple months. I’ve been accused of using steroids by virtually everyone close to me 😂. But I think everyone has a different response to training, so you have to find what works for you. I think your response to training has a huge amount to do with your muscle fiber composition. I think hit style training works very well for people who are made up of more fast twitch muscle fibers, I’m 19 and used to run track in high school doing the 100m maybe that’s a dumb conclusion but Jusy a thought I’ve had

@heuvelke1065

8 ай бұрын

I had two upper body workouts but since i do 1 set till failure i have more time and combine the workouts into one. 3 days rest instead of 2. Sometimes 4 depending how hard i performed. So thats 2 times a week upperbody and 2 times a week legday and it boosted my growth even more. Im very happy with the results.

"Dorian Yates did it." 1: You ain't Yates. 2: You don't have a criminally insane *Brummie* screaming in your ear.

@oisinofthefianna3246

Жыл бұрын

True. Also, if HIT is best because it worked for Yates, volume is also the best because it worked for Arnold. Wait...

To be fair, DY did say he injured himself while in a caloric deficit preparing for a show, and it was completely avoidable. He was after all pioneering something relatively new/novel to bodybuilding.

Well said! I totally agree!!!

In my opinion, everyone should try an HIT Training system like DC Training once in their life. The reason being is learning how to train very hard and adding load while training at RPE9-10 at all time. You can only go RIR3 if you know absolute RIR0. People trash themselves with very high volume but are not getting any gains because they are saving themselves too much so they can survive the insane volume. Quality first, quantity second.

@GuiltyBystander8

Жыл бұрын

@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines lol your intentions and biases are clear, embarrassing

@GuiltyBystander8

Жыл бұрын

@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines that's a lot of assumptions you just made and none of them are true.

@GuiltyBystander8

Жыл бұрын

@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines you make up things about me and I have to prove you wrong.. ok buddy

@EVR1AL

Жыл бұрын

@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines kid.

HIT has worked for me as a bodybuilder: I usually get one more rep than the previous week. When 10 reps are achieved I add 5lbs and then the new target is 6-7 reps. I appreciate that powerlifters have to do things like 5x3, 8x2 etc.

@mrtoast4554

Жыл бұрын

@@oldskoolbodybuildingroutin7178Mam you are a big ass HIT hater I see, what about if you just try it for a month? But like really try it in an optimistic way?

@stephenlewis6409

Жыл бұрын

@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines Dorian Yates proved the validity of HIT by beating all those Volume Training niggers six years in a row( Dillet, Ray, Cormier Wheeler, Levrone). As for myself, what do you want me to do? Shall I Fed Ex you my training journal?

@sophiejervis169

Жыл бұрын

​@@oldskoolbodybuildingroutin7178why are you so mad lmfao

@Liam266

Жыл бұрын

@@sophiejervis169 hi gorgeous

What a great informative video, great information fore and against, hats off to you. I follow HIT training principles and mix in higher volume and it works for me. Its crazy what some KZreadrs sell and say just to make money, glad you called him out. So many ways to train, find out what works for you I suppose. Crazy to say one way only works.

Thanks Brom. I think the best way to summarise: anybody who says “this is the only way” - irrespective of intensity versus volume they are touting - then run away. Each can have their own place depending on the person, your lifestyle, your athletic goals and some will be better and some will be suboptimal for your current goals (e.g., HIT misses the technique practice is that so needed for powerlifting). I would suggest people try to HIT (warm up sets than one working set to failure with forced reps, rest pause, drop sets etc) for a cycle every now and then as it helps people calibrate their RPE/RIR. I think too many people stop and guess “that was an RPE 8/RIR 2” but in reality it was probably a 5. I tend to go between Sheiko and HIT, depending on what’s going on in my life. HIT cycles allow for me to keep the muscles active while giving my joints a rest. Anyway, thanks once again for your very informative videos. I really love them.

Great video. I think people can really gravitate toward "esoteric" ideas and high intensity advocates certainly exaggerate the idea that it's some forbidden training technique that the volume establishment is trying to cover up. I have used mentzer style training when I had some serious time constraints and it really refreshed my training. It was a lot of fun, but I didn't discover fire and suddenly make more progress with less time with the magic of HIT. It's amazing the conviction these self proclaimed experts speak with. In a few years history will have already forgotten them and they'll be onto their next internet marketing scheme.

@EnigmaticAnamoly

7 ай бұрын

Omg and it's even worse in the comments section!! So many people swear by MM's program but then when they actually spell out their program for you, its not even MM's program. At best, its a modified version of it. I think the bodies i see at my gym and the routines those guys are doing to achieve those bodies, speak for themselves - no matter how much people wanna hide behind a smart device and claim they are getting the best results of their lives doing HIT. And i call total bullshit that these people are actually even going to all out failure the way guys like Mike and Dorian did. Here's a parallel: I'm a guitar player. I follow many self proclaimed 'guitar teachers' on KZread and always skim the comments. One of the most common things new players wanna get good at quick is learn how to play/pick really fast. The comments section never ever fails to be plastered with comments that say "teacher A is so much better than teacher B and my progress shows that!" BUT....ever so interestingly enough, when i or anybody asks them to demonstrate via a short video clip of their progress or how much "skill" they've supposedly acquired, they show nothing. They prove nothing. Its always empty claims. It will never ever make sense to me. Why lie to yourself? Why lie to strangers on the Internet? What's the payoff? More importantly, why the fuck am I still typing this fucking book out??? Jesus ever since i switched to HIT I've just got nothing but time on my hands and i don't know what to do about it other than project my first world gripes with workout programs and guitar teachers on KZread. Aaaaaanyway.... What were we talking about again??

This dude charges $2,500 a month for coaching and is definitely not a charlatan. Nope. Nothing to see here.

@aneetpatel8819

Жыл бұрын

And he totally built his body completely naturally using two 15 minute workouts per week. Everyone else is doing it wrong and only he has discovered the truth. He’s basically Neo from the Matrix bro.

@user-xp4ov5od8t

Жыл бұрын

@@aneetpatel8819 who's that?

@tutorguy5772

Жыл бұрын

LOL. The sarcasm

My theory as to why there are many HIT Zealots around....Based on Alex's excellent book "Base Strength"! Future Hit zealot goes to the gym and does your typical, high-volume bodybuilding routine. Future HIT zealot grows and get's stronger because....beginner. This goes on for months and months. Anytime the gains slow, FHZ simply ups the volume or swaps out some lifts and goes hard, hammering the body with 20-30 sets/bodypart a week. But then....o wonder! Future HIT Zealot hits a major strength and size plateau (like everyone does, on ANY plan, eventually). His joints hurt. He's not that motivated to train and he's not getting stronger or bigger. Future HIT Zealot reads up on training and comes accross this contrarian training philosophy that makes huge promises. Future HIT Zealot switches from a high-volume, "kill every bodypart with 20 sets a week" to a very low-volume approach and....lo' and motherfucking behold....HE GAINS like a newb again! What happened here? Well, turns out that HIT Zealot simply built a base of work capacity with the volume training. But after a couple of months his body couldn't keep up with the demands. His workload accrued so much fatigue, that his fitness (gains) were masked. Hence the platueau and the feelings of "overtraining." That's exactly where HIT Zealot switched to...well...HIT. And boom! The lower volume gives his body a chance to recover and display the gains, that were worked for on the VOLUME phase. I've seen this pattern play out time and time again. The thing is, in bodybuilding nobody knows about these programming principles, let alone fitness and fatigue. I encourage everyone to read Alex's "Base Strength" book. It will help you understand the principles behind programming, thus making you see "the Matrix" of physical training. Anyway....TLDR.....There's a reason WHY HIT (or low volume training...however you want to call it) works so well...And that is, that you've done VOLUME training leading up to your HIT phase. Again, read Alex's book. Fuckers.

Though I really enjoy a lot of HIT principles I think that it can't be your whole approach. I've found that including a failure set at the end of a exercise affords the benefits of intensity while also getting some volume sets in. I do think the approach to finding your personal timeframe for proper recovery is probably it's most important benefit.

I started HIT this month via an old(2004) book by Ellington Darden. I am really liking the change of pace and progress I am seeing. During the past 2 weeks I have consumed an insane amount of HIT content. I had not come across Jay Vincent but I see a lot of characteristics from the interviews I watched from Arthur Jones and Mike Mentzer. Not sure if that is intentional or coincidence. I have a feeling it is intentional. Would be curious to go back and see if Jay's style of presentation has always been this absolute. Also notice similar verbiage which make it feel almost parroted instead of owned. It is understandable that many of the HIT followers are zealots. You almost have to be in order to follow something that is so fringe.

One set to failure to rule them all.

@oisinofthefianna3246

Жыл бұрын

One SET to find them, One SET to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.’

Yes, one top all out set with several ramping sets and then several exercises. It sounds remarkably similar to moderate volume training.

@davidiglesias9549

10 ай бұрын

Exactly..... HIT sounds like volume training

Short summary of the actual amounts of sets, based upon Dorian Yates' info from Blood n Guts and Mike Mentzers books. I am in no way defending any training styles, just trying to clarify what might be the actual amount of training volumes they did: Dorian Yates blood n guts routine had "one working set" but when you actually think about it he didnt only have 1 set of 10 rows. The first exercise would usually have 2 warmup sets, working up to your working weight. If the last set of pullovers (usually first in his regiment) truly was getting close to an RPE of 9+ in a rep range of 6-8, then atleast one of the warmup sets would atleast be 6+ RPE. So there you have 2 sets of 6-8 which stimulate hypertrophy, closer to 3. Next few exercises would usually only have one warmup set which would have to be sligthly close to the 9+ RPE set, so these might actually also be useful working sets when considered from a regular volume training approach. Dorian Yates would have 4-5 back exercises once a week. So he would have about 6 working sets atleast in reality, once a week. If you also consider an extra set of negatives, assisted reps and drop-sets he would probably have another 2 counting sets. Meaning he would be closer to 8 working sets. Dorian Yates had fewer sets than his competition, but in no way did he have extremely low volume. Mentzer on the other hand would warm up then almost always superset two exercises and then not train that muscle for a week or more. He would usually alternate intensity techniques. Meaning Mentzer would usually have 1 heavy enough warmup before his working set on an isolation. If we look at his back day for example: 1-2 warmup sets, if he was to hit an rpe of 9+ he would likely have one of the warmup sets be heavy enough to stimulate hypertrophy. So he would likely have something like 2 sets of pullovers that count, immediately supersetted with chinup grip pulldowns, then every other week have assisted reps, a hold or a dropset here. Meaning Mike would have 3-4 sets for back in that day. Mike did have quite low volume for large parts of his career.

Have tried it all, and for me, volume is king

@jmgonzales7701

3 ай бұрын

sets or frequency?

@DrRRaza

3 ай бұрын

@jmgonzales7701 overall sets seem to be the biggest driver of growth for me, higher frequency than twice a week can only work for a handful of muscles ie. Delts, forearms, and Calves.

@jmgonzales7701

3 ай бұрын

@@DrRRaza what if you train full body 5 x a day but u mitigate the load?

@DrRRaza

3 ай бұрын

@jmgonzales7701 yeah you could do that , however for me, I find it hard to autoregulate. Ie I'll go too hard on let's say squats, my legs, knees, and back will be sore and because my program says I need to do let's say 2 more sets of squats, I'll do them and risk injury. So I've found it best to limit frequency to 2 times per week and keep my volume somewhere in the MAV range, having higher volumes on lagging muscles.

@jmgonzales7701

3 ай бұрын

@@DrRRaza i do 10 sets per week per exercise and im very short on time plus i do martial arts. So currently im doing 2 sets per exercise then i build to 10 sets by the end of friday.

Dorian was self-admittedly inspired by Mentzer’s training routines, but his own training was different in many important ways: Dorian in his prime trained a four-day split with 2 days on, 1 day off, then repeat. Each muscle group was therefore trained once every SIX DAYS, much more frequently than Mike recommended, and actually more frequently than the average bro/pro standard of 7. This is often completely ignored by H.I.T. advocates, who defer to Dorian as a proof of concept of Mentzer’s training principles. Sure, he was on steroids, but if 10-14 days was so superior, why didn’t he wait more days? Wouldn’t that be more optimal, allowing for greater growth? That was seemingly how long Mike would advocate. Dorian was meticulous in his data collecting, so it’s likely he didn’t stumble on the 6-day recovery period by accident. It’s more likely he tried longer and shorter periods and found 6 to be optimal. Dorian did around 3 exercises per body part. This is more than Mike advocated, which was 1 or 2 at the very most. He also did a significant amount of volume during his “warm ups”, which were discounted when tallying up his training sets. So that’s 3 top sets per body part every 6 days. While it’s in no means a high-volume routine, it’s a lot more reasonable and significantly more volume and frequency than Mentzer prescribed in his most popular routines. If you watch Dorian warm up for incline bench in his Blood and Goods training DVD, this volume is not inconsequential in building muscle when considering the load used. Most powerlifters would argue that he’s doing TOO MUCH volume during the warmups, fatiguing him for the supposed single set that matters. Dorian lowered weights slowly - the eccentric portion of a rep - then lifted them quickly during the raising or concentric portion. If you watch videos of Dorian training people bench pressing, for example, he asks them to imagine a coiled spring being compressed, then forcefully pressing the weight up. This goes against what Mike says, which is essentially “slow is better”. This is also why you see most people training in Mentzer’s style lifting very unimpressive weights. Sure, getting to Dorian’s weights is not possible drug-free, but the average Mentzer fanboy fiddles around with novice and beginner weights in perpetuity. Rather than trying to lifting weights slowly during the concentric portion, most lifters would be better off trying to become stronger and eventually the load of the weights will take care of that itself. Dorian used a mix of free weights and machines, saying that it's about the right tools for the job. This is why he favoured leg press over squats during his professional career, despite Tom Platz being his idol and Tom of course was a huge squat lover. Mike was a huge proponent of machines, claiming them to be superior to be free weights due to their more advanced origin. If you see the footage of Mike training his disciple Markus Reinhart on KZread, the only free weights exercise he makes him do is deadlifts, which he uses a whopping 315lbs with. If Mike's training is so focused on strength gains, how come a steroid using bodybuilder can't deadlift more than 315lbs for their top set? Sure, Mentzer’s training is primarily focused on muscle growth rather than strength from neurological adaption and Markus is made to lift slowly, but 315 is nothing an enhanced lifter should be using. Dorian did cardio, specifically LISS cardio, to help strip off bodyfat and help improve recovery between days of weights. He also stretched, as you can see in the Blood and Guts leg day training. Mike would latterly claim that cardio and stretching was not only waste of time, but hurtful for muscle gains. As we now know, once you are carrying high amounts of muscle, it’s important to do some level of cardio, even if this is just brisk walking. Most importantly of all, Dorian has admitted that someone can’t train all-out all the time and that he did, in fact, deload. He would go lighter for 2 to 3 weeks, then go through 5 to 6 weeks cycles of pushing the limit. This is a huge difference to Mike’s training philosophy. Mike himself often stated that if you weren’t progressing every session, you weren’t training correctly and more rest days was the answer. kzread.info/dash/bejne/e4Joy9V_Xdu-hrQ.html&ab_channel=HighIntensityBusiness Mentzer’s fans often claim that Dorian’s career-ending injuries were due to “bad form”, using too much momentum. I find this hilarious, because they also want to use Dorian as an example of H.I.T. working. So, which is it? Is he the golden boy? Or a bad disciple? The reality is that the extremes that Dorian pushed himself to unsustainable. It doesn’t matter how good your form is. If you’re trying to be as big and lean as Dorian was, you can only keep that up for so long, just like any athlete at the top of their sport. You’re talking about a man who was underhand barbell rowing and benching in the mid-400lbs range and leg pressing over 1,200lbs. How long do you think you can keep that up? Whenever an H.I.T. disciple pipes up about Dorian using bad form, they nearly always have physiques that are somewhere between unremarkable and unimpressive. And, of course, zero Mr. Olympia medals for themselves or their trainees. Their finding fault with Dorian’s training is classic armchair thinking. So, while Dorian was inspired by Mentzer, his training was different in many important ways. It is disingenuous to say Dorian’s success is proof that Mentzer’s H.I.T. works as prescribed. It is also worth noting that Dorian retired at 35, which is young by bodybuilding standards. He himself admitted that training to failure and beyond with intensity techniques close to a contest is what resulted in his worst injuries, further supporting that some sort of periodisation is what’s required for long-term success.

Dorian Yates’s partner was definitely the Flying Dutchman form SpongeBob

HIT has really helped my strength, thus far. Have also been having success with Rippetoe’s ‘fives’ lately, tho ‘starting’ to plateau a bit, so will mix it up again, soon. I think Mentzer et al have contributed a lot to understanding neuromuscular development and will say I’ve had success with his philosophy, if you will, but yeah-it’s a viable approach to training, that is, it works really well depending on what your needs/goals are, but not *all* training. I think even Mentzer would say as much.

Mr América Heart, John Heart ia also a proponent of HIT but he has a more open mind. He says that if you want to get as strong as possible you should learn from powerlifters.

@MrAmericaHeart

Жыл бұрын

True

This serves as a proof that literally every approach works as long as you put effort, consistency and patience.

@HaloDude557

Жыл бұрын

I used to train high intensity and plateaued for several months due to lacking volume and frequency which I would better have in sub maximal training

@SuperLari1234

Жыл бұрын

@@HaloDude557 you probably didnt train to high intensity then

@HaloDude557

Жыл бұрын

@@SuperLari1234 10 RPE on top set and backoff sets must not be high intensity then gtfo clown

@silatguy

Жыл бұрын

That's not true at all. Plenty of gym bros that never hit a 3 plate bench or get bigger than their first 20lbs of muscle gain. I did HIT for years and it only worked in small bouts then there were hard stalls. Getting stronger through high volume training and cycling intensity is what made me break those hard stalls. A lot of weak people try hard in the gym as well. Gaining size and strength is not only effort but it's cycling intensity, having a built in progression and prioritizing strength is a must for a natural if you want to gain size.

@HaloDude557

Жыл бұрын

@@silatguy it's hopeless. These dyels won't listen until they've stalled themselves

There are many systems that "work" ( in different ways ). The Russian Smolov training which is used for forcing strength adaptation requires a high loading and volume. It makes use of deload weeks after stressing the body and forcing it to adapt.

It would be great to see a debate between you and Jay Vincent on this topic!

@mdd1963

Жыл бұрын

There were dudes in my high school bigger than Jay Vincent…

I think the reason more people don’t do HIT is because they have a low tolerance for pain. It burns like hell pushing that lighter weight at an 8 second rep cadence. One set of ten will have your muscles under constant tension for 80 seconds! Compare that to the normal quick 2 second cadence that amounts to only 20 seconds. And in that 20 seconds probably 30% of the movement is momentum not actual muscle contraction.

I've done HIT routines in the past and NEVER got satisfactory results with any of them. The HIT advocates/cult adopt an unfalsifiable position. If HIT seems to work for someone they point to that as validation that it works. When anyone says that they tried it and found it lacking the response is typically “You just didn’t do it right because when done right it always works.”. Another good example of this is the X3 bar (a form of HIT training using resistance bands) and it’s buffoonish creator John Jaquish. Jaquish actually capitalizes on the cult like behavior that exists within the bubble of the X3/HIT community by encouraging an us vs. them mentality where the X3 users/HIT advocates know the “real truth” about exercise and sneeringly mocks everyone else who is “wasting their time lifting weights” (or doing more than one set) despite the abundance of evidence to the contrary.

Did that guy dissing Jay just PROVE his case by saying... "Look at Dorian, he had injuries and he DON'T train like Jay says"

Would be interesting for you to interview Dorian and tell him your ideas.

Train to create a demand

lol dorians warm up sets were mental heavy those still accrued tons of volume through that, his top set was basically an AMRAP

I switch to doing just 2 sets per move and low volume 6 years ago and the results have been nothing short of amazing for me . More muscle growth, less joint pain, less fatigue and so on

I've trained people using hit principals. A common protocol for me was to use one set per exercise and three exercises per muscle group, but two drop sets would be performed at the end to simulate a manual overload which I observed Yates so effectively using. Pick a weight you can manage 6-8 reps with and do that to technical failure, then immediately switch to a weight which is 70% of the working set weight and after that to a weight which is 50% of the working weight, take all three to technical failure. Weight is increased when you can do 8 reps in the first set.

I go to the gym as “therapy”,,,,,not looking to get in and get out. I look forward to spending time there,,,getting some volume in.

@NCRonrad

Жыл бұрын

Why the quotes when it’s obvious you’d rather be in the gym than with family or meaningful hobbies?

@JesusChrist2000BC

Жыл бұрын

And if I can get my "therapy" done in 20 minutes versus two hours then I'll choose the former.

@krystofodehnal9448

Жыл бұрын

​@@NCRonradIf gym isn't a meaningfull hobby to you, t fak are you doing here?

@krystofodehnal9448

Жыл бұрын

​@@JesusChrist2000BCYou nailed that, Jesus. If your goal is to burn out in 3 weeks and make no gains at all

I trained for 8-10 years using HIT style early on in my training. Probably about 4 years after started lifting. Made some good initial gains. I believe that novices could benefit from a short bout of HIT training because it is a very different stimulus and can have benefit for those who do junk volume/mindless high set pump work. It also trains you to realize your limits and push them-which most novices are not used to as well. Most beginners feel like a 10 rep set at rpe 8 is actually rpe 10. If you build your mindset to push hard you may realize that you could actually push your average set 5 reps higher. This obviously provides a strong acute stimulus and can lead to strength or hypertrophy gains in the short term. Doing 'true' HIT style for prolonged periods of time can lead to EXTREME burnout, much like some crossfit athletes. I was able to push myself to a point where I almost needed to go to the hospital once or twice. A couple weeks of training like this consecutively you will see that that 10 rep squat or leg press set will not only go down to like 7 reps but it will feel HORRIBLE. Another downside is after any initial gains of increasing strength or rep capacity your muscles don't have the same kind of thickness and glycogen capacity that comes from performing higher volume. You get definition yes but you will end up looking like say, Kinobody. I have been training for 25 years and after HIT I have done both more frequency AND more volume to an extent to keep making gains. The bigger the strength base the more your work capacity increases and ability to handle doing more work. This is of course also related to sleep, job, lifestyle habits but to a point you will have to keep building the 'engine' to eek out more horsepower. Besides Mentzer and Dorian I can't say I have ever seen a natural lifter who has an impressive physique or strength levels as a result of dedicated years of HIT training.

@Youngster543210

Жыл бұрын

That is completely the opposite of the truth lol. The bigger and stronger you get the more fatigue you generate with every set.

@silatguy

Жыл бұрын

@@Youngster543210 maybe..still not as much CNS fatigue as an absolute failure set regardless of weight.

@mikafoxx2717

11 ай бұрын

Mentzer and Dorian were far from natural lol.

HIT works well for me very well, but I swap out routines every to higher volume lower intensity every 3 weeks. But I always go to failure on any set. I will add negative reps if I feel I didn't get enough out of that failure, sometime holding and really slowly releasing the last contraction.

Amen brother 🙏🏼

Ive listened to some Mike mentzer stuff and I have to say I did feel super cult like, especially reading the comments. The thing that high intensity bros do have is effort, a lot of people suck at putting effort into their sets.

@bonkersdonkers7381

Жыл бұрын

Join us bro. The price of entry is one (1) singular set. Join us and live in intensity for eternity.

@coppertopp2268

Жыл бұрын

If you do more than one set every 14 days you’re going to overtrain bro

@Arms.Enthusiast

Жыл бұрын

@@coppertopp2268 this i hate lol, it is just obviously untrue but some MFs believe

@christopherrichards3290

Жыл бұрын

It's great since now I spend way less time in the gym, but that leftover time is just devoted to watching old Mentzer videos and flaunting my new training style over others. Seriously though, after stalling and feeling mentally unfocused, HIT has reinvigorated my training and I will keep going until it doesn't do it for me anymore.

It would be cool if you interviewed Doug Mcguff to see this style of training with a more scientific view

Just when I thought I finally got rid of Greg from my yt algorithm 😭

I've started with high intensity 37 years ago, meaning n9 time between sets, to failure, drop sets, negatives, forced negatives, which was a lot of fun, but objectively, I get more out of training, like Arnold with a volume style. As Mike mentzer did also, to get his basic size, which is something that most people don't know. But high intensity to failure with 30 muscle fails in a five minute period. But working for at at least 2 hours per work out, And working each muscle group 2 or 3 times a week is the very best training method i have ever used. I just don't have time to do it like that anymore.

Personally I stumbled across DC training some months ago and started training this way some months ago. Besides the main lifts I was setting PR's on every excersise every week.