Great discussion about the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ. ❤✝️

Vicarious satisfaction is the answer you are looking for. Evil is brought to its knees by the loving sacrifice of Christ the Son. Redemption is the deepest mystery with logic possible of explaining it. Only believe and faith can reach and accept it.

That beautiful juxtaposition of the resurrected Christ showing the marks of His crucifixion, while at the same time giving His 'Shalom' (Peace) is one of the (many) reasons why I know that what the Church teaches is true. Although many (most?all?) of us take it for granted, it is such a radical, revolutionary event/teaching that is so opposed to our broken/confused/angry/resentful/revengeful/fallen nature, that there is no way we humans could have metacognitively come up with it ourselves. Jesus, thank you for Your boundless Mercy.🙏🏼 Thank you, Bishop Barron for sharing your wisdom. And peace be with you! 🕊️

🙏✝️💒

THEY : who live in a vacuum.

God so loved the world He came Himself in human flesh. The term "sent" describing mission or purpose. We are created in the image of God Who reveals Himself in Christ. Romans 5.14 Adam is the figure or type of Him who was to come, i.e. Jesus.

In a bizarre nutsell: regarding murder: only the *murder victim* can release the murderer from any guilt thereof: not "god", not the 'authorities' but the *murder victim himself*, so really: forgiveness for murdering Him can only feasibly be done BY HIM AND HIM ALONE OR ANY MAN *Personally appointed by Him* to do just that- any other forgiveness is null and void, as it is an overrreach of one's power. Here's the loophole: is anyone here or anywhere stupid enough to think that He wouldn't enable if not facilitate the reparations, if need be, upon entry into the next life? I doubt it, if you know how to write at any adult level: you automatically know that any reparations must be made to the victim and the victim alone- whoever he may be!

It seems to me that Bishop Robert Barron does a good job of trying to guide Dr. Peterson to the kernel of gospel truth seen in the cross of Christ. That is, substitutionary atonement, in which Christ actually atones for the sins of those who put him to death. And if he can atone for them, then for us all. Jesus did not die on the cross to provide us a moral influence only. He went far beyond that to actually take the punishment of a holy God for our sins. Hallelujah! What a Savior!

@johnmichaelson9173

10 күн бұрын

I don't mean to be rude or cause offence but did you believe that from the word go, from the first time of hearing? Or did you take a while coming to terms with it? It's something I've always struggled with, trying to make sense of it. Since I was a child I've just never been able to go with. Unfortunately I've had to say it out loud on numerous occasions but inside I always struggled meaning what I said. It was never a true belief of mine.

@timhoke2

10 күн бұрын

@@johnmichaelson9173 you are not at all rude and I find no offense in your questioning these things. There are any number of biblical/theological issues that I struggle with. Please tell me the essence of your struggle with the substitutionary atonement. What are the the exact issues that concern you?

@johnmichaelson9173

7 күн бұрын

@@timhoke2 Thank you, although you may start regretting your kind offer. So maybe it's happened to you but the older I get the more I started looking at the actual backstory to Christianity. And nowadays everything is at our fingertips so there was no excuse. Well it's just that I could find nothing in Ancient Judaism that would even suggest that a Human sacrifice could atone for sin. And there's no getting around it, Jesus & his disciples were Torah observant Jews. We have Paul's concept of "Dying for our sins" which can also be seen as an Apologetic reason why Jesus dying on the cross was part of God's plan. Added to that "Dying for our sins" is a way that the faithful Torah observing Gentiles who couldn't observe the Commandments who technically were sinners (circumcision etc) could now be part of God's Covenant without observing Jewish law. I do find those arguments/suggestions persuasive as I've never felt all together comfortable with Paul. I mean he never met Jesus in the real World, he never got a sense of the real man. It's all supernatural, that's his supposed encounter. These days I struggle with my faith that's supposed to take encounters like Paul's as genuine events. It's difficult something's just don't ring true, especially some of the supernatural stuff.

@timhoke2

6 күн бұрын

@@johnmichaelson9173 I agree regarding the human sacrifice issue. It was a pagan thing, not a biblical OT one. Jesus was not a mere man. He was the God-man, or God incarnate. His was not a mere human sacrifice. Rather it was God's own dear Son, as the 2nd Adam, paying for the sins that the 1st Adam committed and we inherited. To understand the story line here, one must go back to Genesis 1, 2 and see the perfect world God created. Then in Genesis 3 Adam sins and he, along with all creation falls. From that point until the coming of the Messiah, God works a plan of redemption that serves as types and shadows in the OT, but is fulfilled in the person and work of Jesus Christ. The NT book of Hebrews points out some of those key types and shadows. Jesus fulfilled the offices of prophet, priest, and king. He fulfilled both the Abrahamic covenant and the Davidic one. Jesus suffered and died to atone for our sins. There is forgiveness for us because of his sacrifice. Upon his return, Jesus will consummate the age and introduce the new heavens and new earth. This will be Eden restored--only better. Reflecting on these things has increased my faith in Jesus over the past 50+ years as a believer.

🖖❔🧘‍♀️🦢OR... Transmuting evil that is our deeply bound tendency to rail against the Divine Will ,that is what we call hate,the Logos was manifest as Jesus He became or as a human being his son in space and time,so God puts Himself as a human being on the Cross to die a sinless man transmuting our evil so that we can see and follow him ,otherwise we have only the Spirit.

If we had not sinned why would God the Father need to send His Son? Wasn’t the Son already present in the Garden, walking with Adam?

@johnmichaelson9173

10 күн бұрын

Who knows? The Mormons say the garden of Eden is in Missouri, maybe pop over & have a look?

Shalom actually means " to rest in God"

@TDL-xg5nn

3 күн бұрын

It actually means peace but like most words can have more than one meaning.

I believe the misguidance is when we believe that he is to Bear the weight of all of us. From my understanding and connection with Jesus, is that we are supposed to walk the path of him and awaken the Christ within to which we become the cross. Our head crowns the cosmo, bringing in the divine, our feet firmly grounded in mother Earth. Then we stretch out our arms, as we become the cross bridging as above so below. As we Channel information through our crown we bring it into our hearts space and through the arm the energy is brought into action. Jesus is the antidote to the magic that is cast upon society. Keep your eyes focused on God and the Matrix can't get you. Jesus is the path out

@josephodoherty7864

24 күн бұрын

A misappropriation & distortion of the figure of Christ and Christian beliefs and terminology with a pseudophilosophical & narcissistic negation of what Jesus & His Apostles along with all the early Church witnessed to. There is no self realised divinity or pantheistic "christ force" bunkum". No "magical" BS. Jesus said anyone teaching a different Gospel (of salvation) was an Antichrist. The early Christian Church of the Apostles with Peter in Rome and later the major hubs in Constantinople & elsewhere - the ancient Churches whose teachings and practices are well evidenced & consistent since allow no arguments or legitimate grounds for gnostic/ magical commendeering of God's revelation in the person of Jesus the Christ of Nazareth the incarnate Son of God (conceived by the Holy Spirit)and made flesh of His earthly mother Mary.

I was brought up Catholic. The nuns and clergy, if we skinned our knee or got hurt we were told to - offer it up to God because Christ suffered and died on the cross for you. It was like a catharsis and indemnity of sorts to redeem ourselves for the sins of Adam and eve. I'm pretty sure a loving and merciful God would not want or require it. Would you want your children to suffer?

@marynayna6327

24 күн бұрын

It made us stronger and got us to get over ourselves.

@kenhoyer8601

24 күн бұрын

@@marynayna6327 I know the the old cliche, What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. Not necessarily, and don’t bring up Job. Would you tell your 5 year old to offer it up if he fell off the slide and broke his arm?

@aaronmedrano1657

24 күн бұрын

i think it may be so your suffering isn’t for not, but rather that it has meaning.

@kenhoyer8601

24 күн бұрын

@@aaronmedrano1657 the only meaning of breaking an arm and suffering is to be more careful in the future.

@ltp27345

24 күн бұрын

life itself is suffering but I don’t think the point was to make yourself suffer on purpose for no reason

Yeah, I was told not to chew the host because you’re chewing baby Jesus

Why did God create the World/Universe? This is the essential question. Did God need to do it, if he is the BEING? Well, God created World and the Human Being according to his image. Is he so needy to have somebody to look down on, or even worse, to shiver in fear? I am a fan of St. Hildegard of Bingen, an official teacher of the church. She said that God's initial word bringing everything into existence, was " My Son" ! Now people might argue that he spoke " Fiat Lux ", but is this so different, now with regard to the Creed: ......Light from light, true God from true God? No - God always had his son in mind as expression of his love. Love longs for a counterpart, love longs for response. All creation, i.e. all stars, all elements, all plants, all animals were designed to meet the basis of life of the human being. Adam was the first to start that line, and God's Son was supposed to be the perfection. According to God's image, all freedoms were put into creation. And God saw that it was good! However, all freedom = free will/decision as a matter of principle needs the capacity to overlook the consequences of my decision, Adam and Eve did not have, only after the bittersweet taste of the fruit of enlightenment. They recognized themselves as being bare and naked, feeling embarrased, ashamed and guilty! This wonderful status of innocence was gone, leaving them unbalanced, never becoming able again to fill this gap out of their own capabilities. This cut-off, slice-out of let's say genes/mytochondria brought calamity and death into the world and passed on from generation to generation. The average ages became less and less. Could God's Son still be part of this mislead creation? Jesus gave the answer himself: the harvester waits until the end, in order not to destroy the good with the bad, but sort out at the end. Moses was given the law in order to mirror the sins and evils, bringing them into awareness. Every new generation widened the gap of failure towards perfectness/holiness of God. With other words: this world was doomed, no escape from our own nature's declining capabilities for a righteous life according to God's values. But God's heart broke, how could he let go of his disobedient and ignorant children? " Ephraim, Ephraim, with chains of love I wanted to cling you to me, but you did not want! " He set a sign to Abraham, asking to sacrifice his beloved son, in order to bleed for the continous disobedience, atrocities brought over this world by mankind. He did not let Abraham slaughter his own son as sacrifice, but wanted Abraham and his progeny get a slight idea of the pain in his heart for being obliged to sacrifice his beloved Son for the redemption of mankind from the original, inherited sin, this gap of failure, only God can refill with virtues again. Parents may get a glimpse of imagination, when their children become rebellious, hurting and transgressive. According to the law, every disobedience was breaking God's law = failure, not meeting God's requirements = death! Not fit for purpose in the new world to come. As King of Kings, maker of the laws of the universe, he cannot take back the law, but he can modify it the way, as shown to David against Goliath: " it is better that only one man dies, than the whole folk. ( The high priest uttered the same when Jesus was brought before the judges in Jerusalem. ) God Father had to suffer the greatest pain, having to sacrifice his own son, only to meet his law of perfection, that is obedience and subjection under God's will. Jesus, the perfect one, born without inherited sin, was the only one with enough strength to walk the way until the end, ending on the cross for the old creation. The curtain of the temple tore apart, the way opened to the Tabernacle with the eternal light. Light from Light does not extinct but has ressurrected as new Adam, the beloved Son of God. Behold, I shall renew everything! The new world and Kingdom of God already exists. If we want to reach it, we have to believe in Jesus Christ and follow the path of obedience.

@johnmichaelson9173

10 күн бұрын

"The World/Universe" you can't really put them together like that, they're so utterly different in every way shape & form. It gives people the wrong impression of creation space & time.

@ilsekuper3045

10 күн бұрын

@@johnmichaelson9173 world/universe is not only what we See in a 3d Perspektive. Unfortunately, ee can only think into fürther dimensions, God beyond all space and time.

@johnmichaelson9173

10 күн бұрын

@@ilsekuper3045 "Beyond all Space & Time" Come on fella, what kinda nonsense is that? It's like me saying there are Pixies & Fairy's who live at the bottom of our garden but you can't see them because they flit between Dimensional Hyper Space.🤦 In our Solar System we have the Sun & 8 planet's. In the Milky Way, our own Galaxy, there are 300 Billion Stars & at the very least there are that number of planets, 300 Billion. In the Observable Universe* there are Two Trillion Galaxies *(I'm just naming two, James Webb Space Telescope/Hubble Space Telescope)

Forgiveness is only remotely valid and/or available if you in some way *regret* your illbegotten choices to do wrong; otherwise what're you asking forgiveness *for*? *That* is how we know that Palegius is right: without changing our ways: we CANNOT be forgiven, so all responsibility is solely on *us* to do everything of saving ourselves; and the less able we are to do that: the less help we can receive, so it really is all on us- hence anyone who goes to Hell: he has chosen it himself, of his own free-will; nothing else matters *besides* man's free-will about events: and nobody, heedless of how powerful, can ever override another's free-will, no matter what. Hence there really is NO possible reason for one to sin; and the citation contrary to the claims of the "orthodox catholics" of those days is that "Yes! They do stress a request for being forgiven; but that only *embraces* the personal responsibility we've always been stressing; as any claims that you could be tempted beyond any say is really embrace of the heresy of Lucifer: that of predestination, of any form at all!", it is not Calvin who came up initially with predestination, but Lucifer, something far worse altogether, as is any passages in favor of any power over you having any say of what the state of your soul is- aside from yourself alone- as that agenda of power is really *straight out of Hell's dictator* and may not be heeded, nor may any faith at all that has ever endorsed that ever be truthful at all!

Well, as a Being, a Moral Exemplar is what Christ *is*, otherwise He is worthless- so the ideologies of the church leadership are diametrically contrary to reality in and of itself. Example, guys: if someone assaults you; phyiscally, the *least* you'll demand, and rightly so: is that they *stop* assaulting you as the price for forgiveness: as you should: otherwise their repentance is *utterly meaningless* so we know that Palegius was the one who was *right*, otherwise there could never be any forgiveness, and the Act of Contrition is completely worthless, and worse: a lie.

In a real sense: it is not *humility, but pride* that leads to mercy, and thus to love of neighbor; it is *humility* that brings man to hate his superiors, as the more you increase your humility/lowliness, the more you hate anything and everyone even remotely above you.

@nicolamustard7232

23 күн бұрын

You have an inherently incorrect understanding of the definition of humility.

@chissstardestroyer

23 күн бұрын

@@nicolamustard7232 Nope, humility, as I've given it, is solely as the Church has definied it; and it does NOT lead to holiness, not in the least: in truth: by humbling oneself: one learns to hate anything above and any quality of *being* above another at all- just to be sure to reject any aspirations towards pride. Pride, as the Church defines the deadly sin; in fact says that because this person *cannot* ever oppose you: you have therefore no possible reason nor excuse *at all* for moving against him, but anything even remotely superior to the least powerful of all has to be fully *controlled* by the least powerful of all: or they *are going to abuse them* so it actually behooves the lesser to hunt down and kill the greater in all situations. So it is not I who has the incorrect understanding, but you idiotic twit yourself to think that anything superior could ever be even remotely permitted to live at all!

@chissstardestroyer

23 күн бұрын

@@nicolamustard7232 And no, I do not have any kind of error in understanding the nature of humility; yet it really is that the more you humble yourself, the more you *hate* any kind of superiority at all; to the point of even by simply humbling oneself before God I learned to hate God forever!

@chissstardestroyer

23 күн бұрын

@@nicolamustard7232 Plus, what is *prideful* as the Church defines it actually is also *merciful*, as there is no reason nor excuse at all for brutality; yet what is humble has *absolute duty* to utterly ruin anything even remotely superior to itself, out of sheer hatred of the *quality* of superoritiy and all those who have ever possessed that vile quality. We use the scientific method and reason and logic: those automatically not only *disprove* but also fully *overturn* the word of God, as His word is in all dimensions diametrically contrary to truth; which's discerned by experimentation on what brings goodness verses what brings evil: and what brings evil *is* subordinating oneself (humility as the Church defines it, and as I have learned correctly to define it *from the Church itself*!), yet pride, the deadly sin, as the Church has defined it, actually brings manly restraint from cruelty, gentleness, and service to neighbor, so we *know* that the whole idea of pride being the head deadly sin is a heresy from the mouth of God Himself, as His word has produced evil in even *one* little guy, as He put it, who was out to do right and was taught objective evil BY HIM through HIS CHURCH and its terms!

@nicolamustard7232

23 күн бұрын

​@@chissstardestroyer by definition, humility brings one closer to God. If you are being led to hate authority and indeed, God Himself, then it is clearly, again by definition, not humility that you are talking about.

Well, solely because God is also the most high, He therefore is also the most *evil*, due to the command to be humble: we have to equate status above with antimorality- forever.

can't kill something that doesn't exist.

Why do you insist on intellectualising instead of being???

You have still more to learn than to teach Jordan