When I started in 1968 Super Vel was the latest, greatest for our service revolvers, but was prohibited in my department. They mandated the 158 grain lead round nose standard pressure and it dropped the guy I was forced to shoot. Our sergeants inspected our weapons & ammo often and I didn’t want to lose my job so I followed the rules.

@GunSam

29 күн бұрын

Was worse over in the Sheriff Dept. Only allowed 1 round in the shirt pocket.

@mkshffr4936

29 күн бұрын

@@GunSam 🤣🤣

@PassivePortfolios

29 күн бұрын

The 158 grain RNL was dubbed the "Widowmaker" round for its lack of stopping power and excessive penetration. I read somewhere there was a big battle in NY city over the adoption of the so called "dum-dum" hollow point loads to replace the RNL load. The police unions were for the hollow point ammo but the politicians were opposed. The politicians relented after some lawyers told them the hollow point ammo is less likely to penetrate the bodies of criminals and injure people behind them, which would be a liability for the city. So the NY city politicians did not care about the safety of their police officers but they were concerned about paying out judgements to bystanders hurt or killed in police shootouts.

@MichaelGolpe

29 күн бұрын

@@PassivePortfoliosI remember that

@hillbillyscholar8126

29 күн бұрын

Our standard issue ammunition was the Winchester 125 grain Silvertip .38 Special but we could carry what we wanted in the revolver so long as we had the issue ammo on our belt.

High and Left is a California round.

@chrisgabbert658

29 күн бұрын

😂

@talon2pro

29 күн бұрын

The land of fruits and nuts!

@lookythat2

28 күн бұрын

As opposed to low down and right?

@user-wo2iw3kt8o

27 күн бұрын

California is nice up north .

@ElainesDomain

27 күн бұрын

@@user-wo2iw3kt8o Yes it is. I was born in CA. 65 years and left in 2018.

Thank you for the direct comparison of the FTM/Lehigh type bullet with the old-school HC. I have been waiting and hoping for someone to do such comparisons, because my hypothesis was that the HC or a RN more generally (FMJ or lead) would, if tumble could be induced, exhibit similar or even greater cavitation to the FTM. Tests such as GunSam's corroborate the hypothesis from people who maintain that there is not a new type of damage being exhibited particular to the FTM bullet, that is to say, some "hydraulic pressure damage" from the fluting on those form of bullet: the large-for-caliber cavitation does in truth appear to be from tumbling. If that were not the case, it's very hard to explain how RNHC is creating greater cavitation than the much higher velocity FTM bullets, and exhibiting that cavitation much deeper inside the target to boot.

Great video! Interesting load and performance that certainly is a different path from the traditional HP that everyone chases now.

Remembering comments by another time and place from retired LEO so best of my memory... He attended post mortem of bad guys killed by police in his jurisdiction. Exclusively guns used were 4 inch or 5 inch duty revolvers and 2 inch snubs or so all in .38 Special 158g lsw. All bullets resembled a piece of gravel. All bullets found in the back of victim with snub and all either in the back or in the clothes on the back or if pass thru were located at the scene on the ground with the longer barrels. Fatal hits were all center of mass with damage consistent with tumbling. Over penetrations were deemed insufficient to cause further injury. Easy to shoot even for the snubs. One other thing he stated that reloading the lrn or swc was easily done.

I am a re loader guy. I really like these videos

Interesting! Perhaps that's why the factory super police load was 100 fps less for less penetration. Good job!

@josephpepper3087

29 күн бұрын

Probably to keep the pressure down.

Great test. I was impressed how hard the police load hits on the metal compared to the Xtreme Defender. While the .38 may penetrate further it must feel like getting hit with a sledgehammer.

Hi gun Sam. AWSOME video. I love 38 spl. And i load my own soft lead gas checked . 168 grn rndnose and mid range unique powder. Very accurate out of my charter arms that i just picked up. 2" barrel. 5 shot. I really like it. Very light and has worked flawless. God bless.

That 38 impressed me

What would be very informative? If you layer clothing that we here in MI would wear in winter in front of the gel block and see how that old school police load would work!! No hollow point to clog!

The Defenders act totally different in the FBI organic gel. They penetrate straight with a spiral wound tract. Another example is the new CCI Uppercut .22 long rifle. They were developed to expand in the FBI Organic gel because it more represents human flesh. Those rounds do not expand in Clear Ballistics gel and were getting a bad rap and failure reports because of it.

@GunSam

12 сағат бұрын

If they can't expand in clear gel, while every other ammo does expand in clear gel, they should get a bad rap. That being said, I tested the Uppercut myself in clear gel, and they did expand. To something like .33" or so, if I remember right.

GS. Thanks, that was an interesting comparison. Take care.

great video Sam

The other big slow load was the .455 Webley. It originally used a .455" 265 gr LRN at about 650 fps. The same principle of "dwell time" was the rationale, but due to the long oglive, it might've tumbled too. IIRC you tested .45 ACP hardball out of a S&W Governor some time back that about duplicated those ballistics and it did pretty well in that (atrocious) handgun. Made me want to see a modern cowboy load (255 gr LRN under 700 FPS ) tested too. I imagine it'd sail right through two gel blocks and out into space.

Have you tested the Winchester flat nose FMJ's in .380? I have used them to great effect on dispatching critters of various sorts in Police work. From Dispatching deer, to dealing with raccoons and groundhogs!!

Staying with critical duty😊

Lead Head !

So gun Sam where we going next with this? 215gr Winchester Power Point pill loaded in into a 40S&W? Nice 90’s sounding name. Maybe the “Mega-police”?

Also like seeing old-school rounds pitted against modern ones. That .38 looks pretty close to optimal for what I'd look for - minimal superficial damage, dumping its energy deeper. Anyone remember the old .38 SPL police 150-grain high-velocity metal piercing rounds? Western Super-X brand, supposed to penetrate an engine block (doubtful IMO).

LETS GO!

Love the old school tests. Looks like 600-650 is the sweet spot.

@josephpepper3087

29 күн бұрын

Perhaps. I'd be concerned with how easily the bullet could be completely stopped. Could the bullet penetrate an ulna and a sternum or rib? Or would it completely stop? How about the old pine board test?! 158 gr RNL vs the Heavy Police Load?

@mkshffr4936

29 күн бұрын

@@josephpepper3087 200+ gr .357" is hard to stop. The hip breaker moniker is based on reality.

@lookythat2

28 күн бұрын

@@josephpepper3087 If the 200+ gr plowed through the MDF without hardly slowing down I doubt a little thing like the gristly cartilage thin bone of a sternum is going to stop it. That's kind of the whole point of using MDF in the first place. Even if the sternum was twice as tough as the MDF, look how far the 200+ gr penetrated _after_ it went through it.

@josephpepper3087

28 күн бұрын

@@lookythat2 Good point!

👍👍

Wonder what a person could do by going heavier and slower in most of these common calibers. Everything has been a trend toward speed for a long time, such as hollowpoints, supposedly fluid transfer flutes, lighter and faster bullets, on and on.

There is anecdotal evidence of the Super Police ending a black bear attack, tumbling into and shattering the spine of the bear at touching distance. Might have been a fluke but I don't think so.

You thought about testing the super police but taking the load the other direction? Say 525-550'ish fps. Also wonder how twist rates may effect how fast the round destabilizes? Interesting testing as always.

@GunSam

29 күн бұрын

My last test with them one week ago averages, I believe 605 FPS and did perfectly. If I get more bullets someday I might try less velocity.

Sam you can easily give them an off-center meplat that will guarantee tumbling within 3 inches of penetration and not affect accuracy. You basically hold the bullet at about a 70 degree angle and bump it on a belt sander or a quick swipe from a file. This is useful for the lighter weight round noses that have much more stability. Those 200 grainers have a slight yaw while traveling through air which makes them easily tumble, plus barely enough RPM to keep them nose forward until 60 yards.

3 outta 5 aint bad or whatever meatloaf said

What?!... The fluted copperheads are now suppose to be superior to hollow points? 🤔

1 thing to be said for the flying screwdrivers: Their performance is very consistent.

Gun sam, i have a factory ammo for you to test

Random comment.... Have you seen the heritage/taurus roscoe? Are you interested in it? I think they are neat for someone wanting a noir era revolver with a warranty under 300, but I wish they'd made a 6 shot 32 long as well.

@GunSam

29 күн бұрын

I don't have any real interest. They are just a Taurus 856 blued with a different barrel and grips.

@progunliberal

29 күн бұрын

​@@GunSam that's fair.

@GunSam

29 күн бұрын

I think they would be a good option for either someone who wants the classic look, or a woman with tiny hands who needs a grip like the old panel grips like that. But for me, I generally like firearms that can do things that what I have cannot do. Like My Taurus 605 2" and 856 3" can do all those can do, and I don't generally buy firearms for looks sake.

@progunliberal

29 күн бұрын

​@@GunSamI will say, though, if someone wants that style but new with a warranty and safe to carry with all rounds loaded, I think it's a better choice than getting a very old revolver.

@ElainesDomain

29 күн бұрын

Not to take over your conversation. Just a question. How old is ''old''?

Bump

Algorithm

PizzA

The British .38-200 load had a velocity just over 600 fps. They could have driven it faster from the strong Enfield and Webley Mk IV revolvers, but they didn't. I believe the low velocity is critical to the tumbling effect. That cartridge was carefully designed to perform in a specific way. I suspect 700 fps is actually too fast, and is beginning to defeat the design intent of it. The handgun was the British officer's weapon. They had extensive experience seeing exactly what did what during their colonial wars and WWI. I don't think it was any accident .38-200 was designed exactly the way it was.

@scottbruns2907

29 күн бұрын

I've read the same thing. It was concern over Hague convention violation that caused the British to drop the 38-200 and go to a lighter weight jacketed 38 bullet that they used in WW II, which made it anemic.

@GunSam

29 күн бұрын

My test one week ago I had these moving at 605 FPS and they did a little better.

@jamesclark6427

29 күн бұрын

@@scottbruns2907 You are correct. There's a great article in the 1985 Gun Digest detailing the gun and load developed in the 1930s to replace the .455 Webley revolvers. The 200 grain hemispherical nose plain lead bullet wound up being replaced in service by a 178 grain jacketed cylindroconoidal bullet. Which by all accounts had miserable performance. It would stick in the barrels sometimes. There's even mention of a revolver found with the last 2" of barrel bored smooth in an attempt to prevent the sticking bullets! It seems the .38-200 had indeed achieved its goal, but was sabotaged by bureaucracy...

Pause 1. :55. I'm ffrd strait to the jelly. See you there.

@jefrolievertinitz7836

29 күн бұрын

I had higher expectations but was not disappointed with jelly show.

@jefrolievertinitz7836

29 күн бұрын

Tapered case

Just got my first involuntary UNsubscribe by youtube is assho