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@TramiNguyen-oi3kp

15 күн бұрын

Awesome video!

@EbonyPope

15 күн бұрын

The appeal of hand drawn animation is that they are made by hand and you can see it. Even in 90s Disney movies. That is what makes it look alive and where the drawing style of the artists can be seen. Unfortunately Disney closed their 2D department while Japan is still going strong and not letting this artform die. It is just not the same as 3D animation.

@insectostrich4407

15 күн бұрын

My god! I thought I was the only one who thought this about the new animation style being almost soulless when compared to the classic. This is why I love your videos.

@elinswan8174

14 күн бұрын

PLEASE DO VIDEO ABOUT "BARBIE OF SWAN LAKE"! I like that movie but i wanna hear your thoughts about it! 😊💖🦢

@thechickenmanmsm

13 күн бұрын

Don't know if you're gonna see this Doug, but i'd recommend Big Top Burger which is an indie show on youtube by Worthikids (Ian Worthington). he does all the animation single handedly and even though it's cg and made to look 2d, the characters just have great expressions and posses that just completely go off model and it all looks great. Please check it out i think you'd like it! (also he makes great music ok bye) :)

Did anyone else think this was gonna be a 20 minute video about how Marge makes Doug go down bad just from the title 😂

@AshParth560

15 күн бұрын

Like, "this is why I love Marge Simpson to death" and some sort. 😏

@Internatube

15 күн бұрын

Same. I thought this was gonna be a revision to his "hottest animated women" guide.

@AshParth560

15 күн бұрын

@Internatube like a new version of his top 11 hottest animated ladies to him. 😏

@shimshambam

15 күн бұрын

Yes

@nevetstrevel4711

15 күн бұрын

Click bait

Came here to see why NC was coming out with his old school marge fetish , stayed for the animation discussion

@TheArtofKAS

15 күн бұрын

We came for the same reason 🤣🤣

@2prize

15 күн бұрын

Yeah i was disappointed i was all ready and bricked up

@TheArtofKAS

15 күн бұрын

@@2prize🤣🤣🧱

@angrytheclown801

15 күн бұрын

Well she did have a Playboy spread.

@alio6051

15 күн бұрын

@@2prize ayooo no way bro just said that

Fun fact, the Simpsons was originally animated by the same studio that animated the Rugrats. That changed quickly, but that's why the original Simpsons looks the way it does.

@basedkhajiit

12 күн бұрын

Klasky Csupo. An amazing 90's animation studio.

@FlashQuatsch

3 күн бұрын

I think it was after Rugrats in Paris, the show also became more "clean", as well as in All Grown Up. I think that's what make Klasky-Csupo so memorable, it was ugly and expressive. Making pretty design and animation is pretty simple, but making good ugly animation is more difficult. There's ugly like all those Family Guy clones, and then there's ugly like Klasky-Csupo or Sally Cruikshank

I like to call this “The Family Guy problem.” All the characters move the same, they all react the same, they’re all drawn the same. Having the same stock reactions. It’s the same with background characters, or where characters aren’t the main focus. They’re either not moving or moving so simply and slowly that there’s not even a point to them being there. Some times not even blinking during a scene

@samp.8099

15 күн бұрын

Unfortunately, it's been that way pretty much for nearly all made-for-tv cartoons since the very beginning. Animation gets streamlined to keep costs as low as possible, completely eliminating character animation in the process.

@orangeslash1667

15 күн бұрын

@@samp.8099 Fun Fact: Matt Groening said that he's a fan of Ren and Stimpy, which may have been the show that popularized characters going off model.

@DuelaDent52

14 күн бұрын

It’s a shame because Family Guy also used to be a lot more animated before they settled on that stiff GoAnimate style.

@MasterMario548

14 күн бұрын

I notice that. Whenever they laugh or get scared they have the same position. I like to call it "T-rex arms" Their arms are drawn in a way a t-rex arms are like in that bent position.

@Jman92854

13 күн бұрын

It's even worse when the characters stand next to each other in a row... and they ALL have the same exact pose, down to their fingers. Nothing different at all.

Doug's door moved! Chaplin: "I'm ghosting my owner!"

@jacindaellison3363

15 күн бұрын

Oh wait! What time stamp?

@wolfpackflt670

15 күн бұрын

@@jacindaellison3363 2:16

@cody5394

15 күн бұрын

@@jacindaellison3363 2:16-2:21

@jacindaellison3363

15 күн бұрын

​@@wolfpackflt670 thanks!

@jacindaellison3363

15 күн бұрын

​@@cody5394thanks!

That moment of relief with Marge and Maggie in the shops really sat with me too because her hand to the chest as she breathes relief feels weirdly realistic to me. Like I've seen people do that. Interestingly I think around season 15, she no longer gets surprised. I always assumed this is because she'd been watching Maggie go through that checkout for 15 years lol. Still a cute scene,as Maggie shakes her fist at her rival, but feels less real.

@WoodyWoodpecker19843

12 күн бұрын

Nice to see you here. Love your videos!

That shot in the intro of gravity falls with dipper dropping a candle in fright that was done by James Baxter is kinda like that

@pokcow01

14 күн бұрын

The man's a legend. Found out about him from the Adventure Time horse

He's right. The animation for the simpsons nowadays is more stiff and bland. The animation for the old hand drawn intro was VERY fluid. Just the way the animation was for the early seasons of the simpsons was more beautiful to look at. But now.... it's just a shell of what it used to be.

@EbonyPope

15 күн бұрын

The appeal of hand drawn animation is that they are made by hand and you can see it. Even in 90s Disney movies. That is what makes it look alive and where the drawing style of the artists can be seen. Unfortunately Disney closed their 2D department while Japan is still going strong and not letting this artform die. It is just not the same as 3D animation.

@Dargonhuman

15 күн бұрын

@@EbonyPope Indeed, especially with 3d pretending to be 2d, the animation is clearly just a computer moving the character from key frame to key frame with mathematical precision, whereas real hand drawn 2d has the subtle little errors and flair that only a human could put in.

@jacobwolf3900

15 күн бұрын

I don't think animators try to convey motion like they used to. The Medium limited them to 2D but artistic action could imitate 3D. I think current animation doesn't even bother trying that.

@socklock1957

15 күн бұрын

Both types of animation on The Simpsons have their pros and cons; the old animation is not quite colorful but it is very fluid, the new animation by stark contrast is colorful and HD but it’s very stiff and robotic. I will say that the animation of The Simpsons Movie has the best of both worlds, and that’s probably because it had a bigger budget than for one episode.

@orangeslash1667

15 күн бұрын

@@socklock1957 Fun Fact: Matt Groening said that he's a fan of Ren and Stimpy, which may have been the show that popularized characters going off model.

The History of Animation as told through Marge’s Hair Flip.

I remember going back from school in the 90s, then the Simpson was on tv. I would never miss an intro without seeing Marge’s hair flip ( except when they cut the intro short)

Making cartoon characters more lifelike costs a lot of money... but I mean, it's the Simpsons. You'd think they have the budget to make them look at least a BIT less dead inside.

@user-sq5eg8vz6j

14 күн бұрын

The animation of new Simpson cost around 500k to produce a few episodes.

@MmeCShadow

14 күн бұрын

It's a consequence of digital animation. It streamlines the process and makes things more consistent, generally making the process easier, but also makes it much harder to reintroduce the human element. Not impossible, but prohibitively time consuming and rarely worthwhile financially, especially for shows that are more grounded and less cartoony overall.

@ShyGuyXXL

14 күн бұрын

@@MmeCShadow I totally get not wanting it to be too cartoony, but they ended up going too far in the other direction, so it ends up stiff and lifeless. Making it down to eath still allows for small and subtle ways to make a character more alive. Too many times a character just stands around in their default pose with their default expression on their face. They don't have to make them overly animated or anything. It doesn't have to be modern Spongebob, where a character can't even walk into a room without doing a quadruple somersault or something, but the least they can do is draw a few more natural poses and expressions to switch between. Even just something as simple as the angle in which a character stands in relation to everyone else can already change how you see them. Same with their posture. The slightest change in posture can instantly make a character more alive. When they still made cell animation, it wasn't more costly to draw a character in one pose over another. So they might as well have made it not the default pose. But when you just drag a character model onto the canvas in your animation software, then I guess it adds an extra step to make them look less standardized in each shot.

@dastanovich2476

13 күн бұрын

That's the funny thing. You see the newer episodes and certain gags are EXTREMELY well animated, but it's gags-only Almost like those're the only bits the animators can actually shine by the higher-ups

@icecreamhero2375

13 күн бұрын

No it doesn't look at modern Spongebob. That show is very expressive digitally colored and has a lower budget than the Simpsons. Matt Geroning just dislikes off model animation so he very rarely allows it.

I called it. I knew it was going to be about comparing hand drawn animation to digital animation. And I wholeheartedly agree with him.

My version of this is when beast says "go ahead and starvvvvve!" I love the way he moves and when Hercules is being painted and he says "Whats the point?!" I love it

ah yeah, animator here, with shows like Rick and Morty and a lot of adult shows, sadly it's not feeling as alive because most shows have gone to puppet animation to save money. So instead of every frame being hand drawn the parts are moved and tweened and swapped out. Some shows try to liven those up a bit like Hilda where they have the line boil so its moving a bit even if the character is still. It's almost like it's trying to give the illusion of hand drawn which I do like a lot

@kerbeys1180

14 күн бұрын

That reminds me of an internet animator named cas van der pol. He has done something like that and really fooled people into thinking he had a hand drawn Mario sunshine parody until he showed the behind the scenes footage had rigs.

@danvzare6201

13 күн бұрын

Ah so that's what it's called! "Line boil" Thank you so much. Now I know what to call it when I want to complain about it being used. Like Doug, I don't like it when something is pretending to be something it's not. And that line boil is the second worst offender to me. (The number one offender is when 3D tries to look like 2D. It's ok in a game, but don't do it in a show or movie.)

@BananaPhoPhilly

13 күн бұрын

The new season of Beavis and Butthead has the boiling lines (though I wish it just stuck with hand-drawn)

@user-eq5vy4he7w

12 күн бұрын

ed edd n eddy has boil lines too i believe

@HectorHuertas-gu8sv

6 күн бұрын

Indeed.

Old school Marge is the best, she had better movement.

@HuskyDog88

15 күн бұрын

She sounded better then, too. Marge sounds terrible now.

@mrsrobophile

15 күн бұрын

@@HuskyDog88 I mean, Julie Kavner is 73. Cut her some slack!

@fabiofuoco

12 күн бұрын

They all did

@caucasoidape8838

4 күн бұрын

@@mrsrobophile She should retire.

@Vaguer_Weevil

2 күн бұрын

​@@mrsrobophile It's also been airing longer than I've been alive, it's less "cutting her slack" and more "let the poor girl retire already"

Yes. 100%. I was devastated how Marge's life and energy was just GONE from her when they brought out the new intro; Zombie Simpsons was right, they're not just lifeless, they're soulless.

@seymourpant

14 күн бұрын

Doug also mentioned that there’s more jokes crammed into new simpsons, but that’s not really an upside - there should be better jokes, not more jokes.

@Mareoandanime

14 күн бұрын

@@seymourpant Well, you DO need stuffing to do Taxidermy...

@felixdaniels37

14 күн бұрын

Marge in the new intro feels like a robot, it's uncanny.

Simpsons has great animation back in the day. While the new stuff is nice and cleaned-up, I love the look of the older seasons.

@Dargonhuman

15 күн бұрын

It's almost _too_ clean and sanitized these days. There is something to be said and defended of "messier" hand drawn animation that makes it feel more organic and natural.

@pakuma3

15 күн бұрын

It's like comparing something handcrafted or artisanal vs something out of a mass produced assembly line.

@orangeslash1667

15 күн бұрын

@@Dargonhuman Fun Fact: Matt Groening said that he's a fan of Ren and Stimpy, which may have been the show that popularized characters going off model.

@caucasoidape8838

4 күн бұрын

I'd even take the Tracy Ulman versions of The Simpsons over what they became.

A good example of this is actually the Mario games. For the longest time, especially for their New Super Mario Bros line, they were dead focused on keeping all the characters on model. They realized it grew stale on the fans. Then we had Mario Wonder, which gave the characters a fresh new coat of design. While keeping things on model is fine, it does not excuse from cheap animation. Heck i'd make an argument the more you stay on model, the times you go a little crazy with expressions will stand out more.

@myu2k2

15 күн бұрын

Mario RPG games are some of the best. They take more risks. There is also the 'coloring book' style that was introduced with Yoshi's Island, and was also used on Super Princess Peach, which made the enemies and main characters more colorful and expressive compared to SMB3 or SMW. Mario Wonder brought back that playfulness and the level gimmicks that went missing over the years for search and collect quests.

@bowmaj8666

14 күн бұрын

The Sonic series could do with something like that. But considering that this is a series where "fans" absolutely lost their minds when Sonic had "the wrong eye colour" in a game and even threatened Sega to boycott it, and because Sega feels like they're somehow obligated to appease the most overly negative critics and whiniest of whiners, that's likely not going to happen, is it?

@Vaquix000

14 күн бұрын

Mario as a series, regardless of its artstyle is a stale franchise. The creators seriously thought saving a princess from a turtle that goes "Gwahaha!" wouldn't get old after THIRTY EIGHT freaking years... no idea why people give nintendo a free pass to be insanely lazy. The controls and gameplay are usually decent, but it's the same freaking thing every time. And no, setting the same thing in space (mario galaxy 1 and 2) while still having to beat the "Gwahaha!" turtle (I know his name is bowser but that's the extent of the character) for the 50th time is not a new idea. I quit the mario franchise altogether after Mario galaxy 2 it was so damn stale. And no, the latest game isn't super crazy and creative. It's just not. Oh mario turns into a elephant sometimes, flowers talk and bowser turns into a castle. Those things are weird to very dull individuals. Know what was weird and creative? The original super mario bros because it introduced everything, and the USA version of mario 2 which had entirely new enemies and villains. Super Mario Bros 3 was a good game, but it was a curse becausewhen it came around they were so happy with the game they decided to NEVER change things up and we get the same damn stuff every single time since. Because the New Super Mario Brothers games were so utterly devoid of imagination people think something as basic as Mario Wonder is creativity. If so many people weren't slaves to their nostalgia and demanded more we'd get better things. Rant over.

@jlev1028

14 күн бұрын

​@@Vaquix000 Tell me you never played the RPGs without telling me you haven't played the RPGs.

I've watched an interview with a Brother Bear animator describing how the moose antlers were animated. The antlers were mostly done with digital tools, but the in-betweens are hand drawn, and the final result is beautiful. Hand drawing in-betweens could be one process to take an edge off the overly polished digital look. Again, with Blue Eye Samurai, have some crew hand draw contour lines for the imperfect touch.

Everything you said about The Simpsons animation is exactly how I've felt for years before I stopped watching the show, but I could never express it like you did. I knew something was wrong, but I couldn't explain it. You nailed it.

The bit of animation that stuck with me was in Land Before Time after Spike hatches. The way the grass that he ate was animated just looked so surreal and was fun to watch.

@JesmanV92

10 күн бұрын

Yeah, it looked really yummie to me 😄

Ngl, I wish Doug could make more content like this. I'm sure it won't do as well as the normal stuff, but this was honestly insightful and well-articulated.

As an animator, this is a nice reminder that every frame is precious. It's amazing the impact you can make with just a few seconds.

i think the perfect example for me in this case is the transition from the batman animated series to the new adventures of batman. I mean if they were suppoust to be separate shows like The batman or brave and the bold thats one thing, but since they are both the same series? is just dosn't feel the same universe, or even the same universe with the DCAU. Because in BTAS even if the episode isn't the best animated each frame feels like it has his own presence and feel for the entire run, it dosn't matter what you will expect each animation angle will give a lot of athmosphere and personality in each drawing, kinda likea a comic book panel has his own look and feel from the rest. In TNA each frame feel the same even the big moments feel like copy pest from other it just dosn't feel like the same unique show like before, even if it has better looking animation or more consistent art style with the rest of the DCAU.

I have to give a ton of praise and props to the person who really introduced us to the Simpsons but never gets any of the credit, English comedian Tracey Ullman. The show debuted on the Tracey Ullman Show, co-created by James L. Brooks, and featured a ton of groundbreaking skits, including Francesca (played by Ullman), a teen girl with 2 dads. Brilliant sketch. But on that show, they had about 10 minutes blocked off for a cartoon called The Simpsons, before they got their own show. So without Tracey Ullman (of They Don't Care About Us fame), we wouldn't have the Simpsons.

I miss old animation. There's just so much love, art, and life to it. Even the designs were softer and more organic. So many modern cartoons look either uncomfortably angular or childishly rounded. I miss when it looked like characters had dimension, weight, and a kind of simple beauty to them.

On topic of off model, SpongeBob is the exact opposite of the problem. Modern episodes go off model so much it doesn't come off as expressive and more distracting, and detracting from the timing of the punch line.

@montyclown223

14 күн бұрын

And colours. I hate modern bright colours

@user-eq5vy4he7w

12 күн бұрын

they're trying so hard to make more FUNNY MEME FACES

@andykishore

9 күн бұрын

@@montyclown223 Doug pretty much says this at 1:22 where they have their whole body flying around when having a reaction. Modern SpongeBob in a nutshell.

That new Marge animation for the intro is appalling. That's something so basic that I could draw it.

2 great examples of Doug's gripe regarding early Simpsons animation fluidity: 1) The classic babysitter episode where Homer and Marge get it on at a motel while their kids are being watched by a thief! Ms. Botts makes a passive-aggressive threat to Bart about putting in a cartoon tape on the VCR. Watch the way her face and body moves. Then watch how Bart, in terror, moves backwards to do what she said! Damn near Disneyesque fluidity. 2) That great Raiders of The Lost Arc spoof where Bart steals the jar of coins from Homer's bedroom. So much to take in regarding that great escape sequence. But look at how off-model Homer is chasing Bart outside in his underwear as he hops up and down speaking gibberish. Nearly a decade later, the animators would have never made Homer look that way when even moving slightly faster.😂❤

Thanks for reminding me to keep watching Blue Eye Samurai.

@ChannelAwesome

15 күн бұрын

DO IT!!!

@HuskyDog88

15 күн бұрын

@@ChannelAwesome Can you do a review of The Good Dinosaur for the next Nostalgia Critic episode, and put your cats in it?

bro i was literally just watching your top 11 simpsons episodes videos

@ChannelAwesome

15 күн бұрын

Spooky

@squiddyanimations6617

15 күн бұрын

​@@ChannelAwesome hiiii doug

@HuskyDog88

15 күн бұрын

@@ChannelAwesome I thought you were going to do a speech about Marge's voice now compared to the classic seasons. Can you do a part 2 and talk about how bad Marge sounds now compared to the early years?

I wonder if it's tiny imperfections that tip us off to seeing that something took a lot of effort to do. I imagine a lot of time is spent in modern animation making sure everything looks perfect and sterile, but maybe after that is done, doing just a little uglying-it-up might make it all a lot better to look at. Intentional imperfection in a way that is like adding seasoning to a dish.

Here's something I've noticed rewatching Classic Simpsons on Disney+: The shadows that form from the hand drawn/cell animation days on the background. It didn't happen all the time and it's really only visible in certain episodes, but boy, that unintentional detail really makes Classic Simpsons pop in my opinion.

Another good example in early simpsons of the more expressive animation would be the "eye bulge", where sometimes a character would be surprised or impressed at something, causing their eyes to increase and reduce in size for a moment

I love Marge Simpson and I wish there was more expressiveness with characters in the animation is nowadays they’re just becoming stale

@johnstriker480

14 күн бұрын

Ned Flanders & Marge - my favorite characters

I feel a lot of people just reduce some animation styles to their simplest forms even though a lot more goes into them while at the same time ignoring the flaws of others. Like people say CGI and digital animation looks "lifeless" purely because it's done on computers and they bring up some specific examples but the thing is, just like traditional hand-drawn animation, it's not about the style but how you use it, how much effort the artist puts into them, it's not like just because something was hand-drawn it automatically looks better and just because something was done in a computer it automatically looks worse. Which is not true, especially when all animation follows the same principles, it's something Richard Williams specificies in his book "The Animator's Survival Kit," where, yes, all of it is traditionally hand-drawn but he does say that it applies to all kinds of animation, all those techniques can be applied, it's not just something an artist can do with a pencil and a paper, animators also have to draw on a digital tablet and also have to keyframe CG models to make them feel alive, it's not like Foodfight where it was all cheaply mocaped and that's why it looks so bad compared to when it first started with keyframe animation... same thing with old hand-drawn movies that were rotoscoped, you could make the argument those also look "lifeless" compared to keyframe animation, and that's not even mentioning the really cheap animation from the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s which more often than not looked really bad evevn today. Which brings me to an issue that I think kinda started with John K. (speaking of Ren & Stimpy) where he said that all animations should be hand-drawn and wild and expressive and off-model otherwise it's not REAL animation, which I feel has become detrimental, especially nowadays where people want all animation to look like Spiderverse or like Hazbin Hotel where there's not room for more subtle and realistic animation, which is funny because you look at Disney's old hand-drawn movies and they never felt the need to go all wacky and cartoony, like Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella, they were still clearly animated but they never felt the need to remind you "btw we're cartoons." And really, both the need for more "expressive/cartoony" animation and just "old-school hand-drawn" animation in general just feels like people care more about style over substance, like they don't care if the characters and story is good, but rather if it looks like a 90s cartoon or movie they watched as kids... like a CG movie like The Boss Baby would suddenly have more value if it was hand-drawn like a Don Bluth movie, for example. It's perfectly fine to prefer a style of animation but I feel it is unfair to dismiss modern animation for looking "too clean and lifeless" and just kinda selfish to want all animation to follow a trend or formula just to please a crowd that just wants to say "oh look at the pretty animation!"

@lynnboartsdye1943

14 күн бұрын

Variety is the spice of life! Plus some animation styles or techniques serve their stories better or it’s just the tool that was available at the time. If we’re not experimenting in each of these fields and trying to combine them or use them differently how do we find something better? What breakthroughs would we miss out on if we only did what we liked and claimed everything else was bad

I actually thought this was going to be about how Classic Marge is better the Today’s Marge like how classic Simpsons is better than modern Simpsons. I even had that recent weird Disney Plus short in mind. Listening to Julie Kavner makes me thinks she needs to retire. She doesn’t sound like the classic Marge now.

To me animation is "art in motion." Hand drawn animation will always look far better to me than CGI. When I see a old hand drawn film or TV show I feel inspired and am in awe knowing that someone made this completely by hand, frame by frame. When I see CGI or flash animation I feel nothing and am less invested in the film or show. Now I know that CGI can look amazing and takes a lot of work, but I feel big studios only use it to save time and money.

@DaraGaming42

11 күн бұрын

Futurama and Atlantis/Treasure Planet are some of the best uses of CGI mixed with hand drawn CGI for Cars and Spaceships and Hand Drawn for Living things

The way the hair is used to direct the energy of the motion, reminds me of how Millie's animation from Helluva Boss is done, especially in episode 4. The show I wish had more energetic animation is Invincible. When the characters aren't fighting each other they REALY don't feel alive, the poses are so stiff the line art feels like the characters are glued to the background 🥲 I totally get why but God, come one Amazon it's fricking Invincible give them more budget! Also omg the ghost!

Totally understand what Critic means here! I find that in the new version Marge's eyes look very unnatural, they just do not turn the same direction there. This might be the reason why it looks very "plastic" and unrealistic.

I've never been this early to one of Doug's videos

I think that's just another example of a 90s cartoon having more fluid and detailed animation in the intro than in the actual show, that kind of contrast always sticks out.

@nuclearcatbaby1131

14 күн бұрын

They animated it to that Danny Elfman theme

So happy to hear someone else make the comparison between 3D and puppetry. When we did 3D in University I felt immediately like it was very restrictive and not fun for me.

Remember the episode where Homer got a home personal computer? What a dork, amirite?

Hand-drawn animation is drawn with more or less frames depending on what the scene or movement (and budget) allows. Animating on threes, as example, means to hold on a single drawing for three frames of video. Rendering a cell-shaded CG animation with just a lowered frame rate than the standard 24 is how some media tries to fake the hand-drawn look and it looks lifeless because it doesn't actually use the techniques of animating in 2D. (like Chip & Dale: Rescue Rangers)

Wait, do people not know the “Where Does Marge Buy Her Floss?” meme?

@user-su7mv3sm8b

15 күн бұрын

fr

@Morgil27

15 күн бұрын

I don't, because fuck memes.

@astrowolvez

15 күн бұрын

Looked it up and can’t find anything about that

@DigiRangerScott

15 күн бұрын

@@astrowolvez MARGE BUYS HER FLOSS AT THE CORNER STORE

@jjsmith7707

15 күн бұрын

Given nothing seems to exist about it on the Internet it makes sense.

Hey Doug! Having just watched your video I COMPLETELY agree that this expressive style of 2D animation should be brought back (I’m also of the belief that Disney, Dreamworks etc. should shift to doing a healthy mix of CG animated movies and hand-drawn 2D animated movies). On the topic of CG animated movies that attempt to look hand-drawn I’d say another great example is Klaus (though I’d like to hear your thoughts on it)

Idk how doug feels about the show. But smiling friends is a show that comes to mind when discussing animation and trying new things with it. The show is such a love letter to animation as a whole it meshes so many different styles and art forms of it and uses the benefits of each style to enhance the jokes. Whether you like the humor or not, the animation in the show is top-notch.

@ahmeddemha

2 күн бұрын

He loves the show...so much so that he appeared in this week's episode!

As a follow up to my other comment: If I can bring attention to one show that I noticed REALLY lean into bringing back that cartoon over-the-top expressiveness in its' animation recently, even as a show I don't even watch, I have to shout out One Piece. I came across the whole "Luffy 5th Gear" and "Luffy vs Kaido" sequences not long ago and absolutely *had* to go and watch the episodes they were from cause it had been SO long since I'd seen anyone try and tackle that level of wild unapologetically cartoony animation. If you enjoy and are starving for more of that sort of Bob Clampett style, I highly recommend checking it out.

@dilbophagginz

14 күн бұрын

I haven't watched the One Piece anime in a while, but I'll never forgive Toei for what they did to Stussy and all the female characters around the Dressrosa arc, they all look so off-model and disgusting.

I loved watching the simpsions in the 90s! I don't watch it much anymore. Except the TreeHouse of Horror episodes in October

I do agree with you that hand-drawn frame-by-frame animation feels more special. The thing about hand-drawn animation like this is that it takes a lot of time and money to produce. And, well, corporations are all about earning the most amout of money with least effort. Therefore they will simplify the process of creating the animation by using 3D or building a library of premade expressions and constantly reuse them in an animation program like Flash (like you noticed with newer iterations of Marge in The Simpsons intro). Now they don't need to draw each frame, they can just build scenes with existing pieces they have, and move them on the screen instead of redrawing them each time. If you want more expressive and hand-drawn animations, you might want to look into indie animation projects, because they're more about being passionate than just about meeting a deadline (I'm not saying there's zero passion in projects like The Simpsons anymore, but there's less room to be creative).

I'm glad you mentioned Helluva Boss. I love the animation of it and prefer it over the Amazon Hazbin Hotel's drawing style. Helluva Boss has that kid animation feel that I grew up with and I love seeing it in adult animation. Often, I found adult animation just being unappealing and ugly to me and I just had no interest in watching it. I still advocate for hand drawn because it does feel more distinct to me, compared to CGI that seems to kind of blend together artistic wise for me.

I think the big difference between the two is there is actual variation in the old style hand animation between moments. New stuff can look really smooth, but in a way that kind of makes it look and feel more artificial, while things that are drawn one by one, that naturalness of variation makes it feel more alive and like its changing. No one looks entirely the same from moment to moment, to change is nature and all that

It was a generation of artists that were trying to re-learn how to do animation. Most of the characters introduced in the first couple seasons were designed by two people who had the task of translating the underground-comic style of Matt Groening from its crude origins on the Tracey Ullman Show. One was Dan Haskett, who at the same time was doing design work for Disney's Little Mermaid. The other was Brad Bird, who had just directed Family Dog for Steven Spielberg. The progress they made was incredible, but it wasn't Simpsons in the true sense. They found their personal identity; it just took time. The first animator hired back in 1987 was David Silverman, and even when he was promoted to director, the most famous of Homer's personality scenes (up to c. 1997) ended up being the ones Silverman animated himself. He understood the Simpsons because he'd seen them evolve firsthand, and with the second animator hired (Jim Reardon) he put all the blood and sweat possible into building the world of Springfield from a storytelling / filmmaking perspective to make up what they knew was TV animation's limitations. David Silverman, Jim Reardon and Brad Bird eventually became Pixar veterans and when you look close you can see a lot of stylistic similarities between those worlds. (Silverman co-directed Monsters Inc. Reardon co-wrote Wall-E. Bird is of course the legendary Bird.)

Always nice to see Doug talk about things when he's not constricted to a script as "The Critic". The "Nostalgia Critic" eps are fantastic but I do appreciate genuine discussion too.

The "off model don't pause a Disney frames" are called inbetweens. They're used all the time in animation and are necessary for persistence of vision. The reason why the newer Simpsons looks static is because they likely don't use as many smears. Off model isn't the same as inbetweening because you really have to pay attention to the principles of squash and stretch and to keep your volumes realistic in relation to the character and style. Source: studied animation

This is why I haven’t watched Simpson or south park in over 15 years probably close to 20. The animation is just to clean, done on computers and streamlined.

I love videos like these. It's basically like the old editorial videos you did, Doug.

Now that you mention it Wow doug you hit the nail on the head.. the decline started around season 11+ when they made the animation to scale every scene.. great eye 👁 👌

I get what you're saying because I've noticed years ago that Disney moved on to the 3D animation from the hand-drawn animation. It works in some things like Zootopia and Frozen, but I will always love the hand-drawn animation in movies such as Lion King, Jungle Book, Hercules, Tarzan, and Aladdin. Listening to what you had to say I was thinking about the animation that was done in Dragon Ball Super Superhero which had the 3D animation which looked pretty bad when the compared to the hand-drawn animation that was used before, especially during the fight scenes. When I think about the first time Goku and Vegeta fought I felt life in the animation but when I saw them spar in this movie, I felt nothing. That said, I prefer most of the old style of animation than the newer style when it comes to the Simpsons.

Doug, I really appreciate your cartoon/animated discussions, I take this craft for granted.

I miss how squishy The Simpsons used to be. It was comfortable

@DaraGaming42

11 күн бұрын

It added a lot to the humour

I feel the same for Family guy. The early seasons were rough and had animation errors. The new seasons are more clean and polished but they don't look as alive. There's something about the rough animation that gives it life. They seemed to be more expressive compared to today where they might just sit with all the same faces. I also like the comedy more. Sometimes random humor is more funny than blood and gore like there is in todays Family Guy. Not to mention the family weren't all jerks to each other. Also, maybe the "ghost" was either Douchy or Ask that Guy coming back for revenge. Mayve even Bitch Spaisms.

I always love staying up at night watching anime as old as Cowboy Bebop and Inyuasha so I can view the nostalgia of hand drawn stories from character designs to illustration ❤😊

If you want an animated movie that combines both animation types then watch Klaus. It’s a origin story about Santa Clause and it’s really good

Doug should check The Amazing Digital Circus if he hasn't yet. It's a great example of taking purposefully limited 3D animation and trying to fuse the old style of 2D movement with it. Also, the reason why modern 2D animation often looks lifeless is because it's a lot like puppetry itself. Digital 2D animation is just a very refined version of what Flash animation was, with software like ToonBoom - new drawings are rarely made, presets are used instead and moved around like 2D puppets.

That comparison to 3rd animation and puppetry is genuinely genius

I feel exactly the same way about Dragonball Z vs Super, Z felt scrappier and more raw but Super feels so clean and sterile that I just can't get into it despite adoring Z

@jlev1028

15 күн бұрын

Isn't Super known for having a lot of offmodel animation?

@orangeslash1667

15 күн бұрын

@@jlev1028 Fun Fact: Matt Groening said that he's a fan of Ren and Stimpy, which may have been the show that popularized characters going off model.

@christophersongs3515

10 күн бұрын

Dragon Ball z had good art, but when it came to animating fights it was terrible. Half the time they just reused frames to make it look like they were fighting continuously

That’s one hell of a title and thumbnail

I completely agree, AND I also see why they changed it. In the new intro, Marge isn’t the focal point anymore, Maggie is. We aren’t meant to be looking at Marge, we’re looking at Maggie, who shakes her fist at that other baby. I mean, why they couldn’t do two things at the same time, I don’t know, but at least I understand that Marge isn’t the main point of that scene anymore. For better or worse.

@andykishore

9 күн бұрын

Yeah, instead of focusing on Marge, now they want to focus on Maggie's beef with Gerald Samson, a character introduced in the fifth season episode "Sweet Seymour Skinner's Baadasssss Song" which makes sense why he's not in the old intro.

One of the bigger limitations I've seen is that the digital softwares don't really like it when you want to do anything outside of the "puppet" norm. That's why it costs so much to do the frame by frame animation of the good old days. I'm currently studying and trying to figure out ways to do it. So far it basicly requires compositing various images through too many software suites. Give it time, I'm not alone in this battle.

@danvzare6201

13 күн бұрын

Ah, so it's more of a limitation of software than it is of skill or imagination. That makes sense.

@bluedragon012

13 күн бұрын

@@danvzare6201 yes, pleanty if 3-d artists (other than those who are aiming for realism.) yearn to make exactly what Doug is desiring, but the software hates it. Im working on a technique that could do it, it will just require a butt tone of rigging.

Early Seasons Bart sticks with me. He would often do this thing where his face would be positioned one way and his mouth would shift to the other side. Typically this would happen when he turned his head. I know other characters did this as well, but Bart was the most noticeable. Search "GAS - Twister mouths" for examples.

Honestly Doug, I've gotta say this is one of your most interesting videos. I expected thirsting over the Simpson's Matriarch, but instead I got a very interesting video about the different merits of different animation styles (albeit a brief one). Would love to see another video like this in the future.

@alio6051

15 күн бұрын

😂😂

@orangeslash1667

15 күн бұрын

@@alio6051 Fun Fact: Matt Groening said that he's a fan of Ren and Stimpy, which may have been the show that popularized characters going off model.

Oh critic, ive been working at the industry around 10 years, doing publicity and now series... And for some reason now there is a trend on the animation on doing less and less inbetweens, not even breakdowns sometimes. Because of style and because is a way that the corporatives could save tons of money by taking frames away... The past projects ive been in have been like that, and the very basis of bringing life to a character is getting lost. And this is happening not only in adult anim but in children tv too. At the end is about saving money... So, is very sad, and u are really on point. Sorry for the long comment :'v

For me, one particular scene I remember from old-school SImpsons is the Babysitter Bandit smacking the Happy Little Elves videotape into Bart's chest and forcing them to watch the video, "You're gonna watch the tape and if you don't I'm gonna do something to you! And I dunno what that is because everyone has ALWAYS done what I say!!" the animation in that clip is so slick and Botts' transformation from moody to downright maniacal is bloody brilliant! XD

There's always Smiling Friends. I feel like they have everything going on. They have moments where the characters get stretchy weird and then stiff character models just talking. They can do either style whenever the jokes need it to be that way.

I think how hard it was for Doug to boil down what he was trying to say says more about the issue at hand than any words he actually said did. Let me try to detail what I'm talking about the best I can, be warned this isn't going to be a short one. In "Who Framed Roger Rabbit"'s review from Channel Awesome, Doug, or the Nostalgia Critic, pointed out how Eddie Valant walking into the frame and saying, "Toons" with such distain had more impact and telling of who this person was than someone sitting down in front of you and TELLING you who Eddie was. Respecting the line... I feel is something a lot more complex than Doug knows. "Making them FEEL alive" should be the focus and I agree. Look at, "Ready Player One"'s scene with the main character talking about his movie idol. It was just a rapid fire questionnaire that, in Channel Awesome's review of the movie pointed out, could harshly compared to the camera scrawling over the dust caked part of Eddie's desk that his brother once had. Resecting the line... I feel is becoming more about respecting those who are watching. If you put too much detail into something and things get lost in the mess. Even with 3D rigging, or as Doug puts it "puppets", that rule still applies. Don't get too complex with your style because if you do, you'll lose those watching your work. But, don't go too simple either. Marge's head turn and nod is just the biggest point of this as shown in this video. The reality a lot of 3D modelers face, (Which I should side note, modelers, riggers, and animators are all in different fields but can be the same person. Like how the person who drew the carpet in "Aladdin" from Disney was not the same person who used the computer to make sure the design on the carpet stayed in place... I think that's how that works anyways.) is that a lot of people want, "Enter the Spider Verse", or "Puss in Boots: Last Wish" and have to either go into the Pixar semi weird area of stylized design (I say semi weird here due to how hard it is to get it to look right without being weird), hyper realistic and become deeply nestled in that uncanny valley, or try to do things like "Arcane" or "Blue-Eye Samurai". Some games have managed to respect the line as Doug puts it, but that, in and of itself, is a large issue with other fields of making the model for animation. In my personal opinion, one big issue we currently face in the realms of animation, be it hand drawn, flash drawn, or 3D models, is that too many don't let the artwork do the talking as much as they should. Even as a 3D modeler, you can make the face say SO MUCH more than you'd think. But, if you paid for a voice actor, you want to get your money's worth... I think? Do NOT get me wrong. A great voice actor can breath life into a scene where otherwise there was none, but they can only do so much. Likewise, a poor voice actor can ruin a scene, so it does go both ways. I guess my point of opinion is, we are seeing so many characters on the screen talking things out that could have been done with a little artwork... or a lot! I understand that there are times, a lot of times, that it is far easier to just write a line or.... 20, for a voice actor to say and let them put their all into it over making the artists, modelers, animators, or what have you making this extra effort for maybe a few seconds of the piece, be it a film, episode, or even a short 3 minute piece... but I think that's apart of the problem too. Respecting the line... is something that takes effort, work, and attention to the work being done. And while Dong says, "Don't try to hide your using 3D models!" I don't think it's about hiding them anymore than a drawn character is trying to tell you a story. It is all entertainment, and as such, like actors, they are, by base understanding, lying to you. The drawn line is a dash of ink on a piece of paper. A Flash drawn line is a digital equal on a digital piece of paper. A 3D model is a ton of small sheets of paper set over a framework of measured lines that then have a texture slapped onto it to make it look real, drawn, or even surreal. Respecting the line... I feel should be more about understanding what you can get out of such a simple alteration... and how hard it is to do than on something that is, by base understanding, not simple. An actor smiling is far more complex a visual than a drawn smiling face with a circle, a half circle, and two dots. But both can give just as much impact. If you frame each properly and don't forget the truth of it. I just wish I could say what the truth of it is... because right now... it is so hard to say. Taste, be it of the eye or tongue, is subjective and thus, while I agree with some elements talked about here. There others I don't fully agree with. 3D models are always trying to hide what they are... that's what they've been doing from the first time they were made. But ignoring the things drawn artists can do, is hurting 3D models, and things like "Enter the Spider Verse" shows that by showing how it cares about those artist tricks. My rant/rambling is over. IF you red this far, thank you and sorry for taking so much of your time. As someone trying to find a style for a show I'm hoping to make... this video... calls a lot of what I was thinking into question, which isn't wholly a bad thing, but right now that isn't helping my creative blockage any. Aloha you all.

"Mmm, Homer, I want a divorce"

@ArizonanSummer

14 күн бұрын

But marrrrge why are you divorcing me

@JomasterTheSecond

14 күн бұрын

@@ArizonanSummer *FOR FUN!*

I’m a 2d animation student and I totally get your point of view. CG animation is fantastic, and I get the cost cutting measures 2d shows are often stuck with, but sometimes I wish certain products could just be a little more expressive or wild An example of this is the DC show Young Justice. Now, before the fans kill me, I like YJ, the animation in the show (it’s first two seasons anyway) is really good, and when it works it works, ESPECIALLY during the action. But the other later seasons…well, I’d be surprised if they didn’t have some budget cuts because there are times when the animation is SO stiff or characters are moving SO little that it feels like I’m watching someone keyframe a screenshot across their screen. It got VERY distracting. And given just…how much TALKING there was in the 3rd and 4th seasons, even if it was well written, it made some scenes feel very dragged out or cheap.

Yeah I can definitely get what your talking abo- … hello ghost?

more 'rough' looking art/animation just makes it look visually more pleasing imo. Its hard to explain why but it just adds more character and charm to what you are watching.

Since you brought up anime a bit, I wanted to mention the concept of sakuga. A lot of anime went digital in the late 90s/early 00s and sakuga-where more key frames were drawn to show more detail-became a sign that a show had a bigger budget. Sometimes this was to get very detailed, or sometimes it was going off model like in the Kaguya scene you mentioned. I know your channel focuses more on American or Western animation, but just thought I'd be an interesting factoid for an animation fan like you to be aware of!

I think one of the most underrated moments in the show is in the Season 7 episode "Homer the Smithers", where Homer is reading Mr. Burns' messages to him: ("You have 30 minutes to move your car. You have 10 minutes. Your car has been impounded. Your car has been crushed into a cube. You have 30 minutes to move your cube."), and as he's reading the messages, Mr. Burns just awkwardly looks towards the screen, almost in a Bugs Bunny-like fashion whenever he interacted with a dumb comic foil like Elmer Fudd, with a sour look on his face, almost as if he's telling the viewers "Can you believe that I have to put up with this incompetent boob?!"

Amazing video man. You portrayed exactly my thoughts in a 20 minute video and even the example at 4:55 is the same I always use when I talk about this stuff. I also use that scene of One Punch Man where Saitama is dreaming (and all season one of course), which really contrasts with season 2 that was really disappointing and makes a lot of mistakes on the art direction.

what he described in his fascination with that one Marge movement is what I have noticed in hundreds of brief, animated moments from my childhood (and only occasionally in cartoons today): A very exaggerated movement that doesn't need to be there and is not realistic, but it is interesting, fun to look at, and shows animators will put more effort into making an emotion or action "pop" in a way that live action never can.

As an animator by trade, if I'm being honest, the most fun a lot of us animators have is the roughing stage, where the drawings are so much more wild and carefree, because we're not foucsed on getting the design details right. It's all about getting that fluid animation there. However, when we get to the clean up stage, where we put everything on model, we clean up the lines, make sure everything is solid, the animation tends to look.... a little more stilted. Still fluid, but kinda stiff. All that being said, I definitely agree that a lot of shows really do have that same stiff animation because... well... it's TV. The budget and time isn't always there to really go there. Networks/clients, wanna cut costs and just get the products out there sooner than later, without allowing the proper time and resources to really go all out with the animation. Granted, it also depends ont he style of the show in general, where sometimes the stiff movements and use of less in-betweens and settles makes for a punchier visual gag (ie. Family Guy), but as a whole, this has kinda become the norm to modest-budgeted TV animation that's greenlit on the cheap.

Doug needs to check out some game grumps animated. I think he'd really appreciate those animators.

I hope Doug’s hair is growing Back he wants his Hair Back

@chiggermethod463

15 күн бұрын

I think he may have gone bald brother lol

@gamefan6219

15 күн бұрын

I don't think that's ever gonna happen.

@PuffyOne1898

15 күн бұрын

What rock have you been living under?

I never wrote comments under your vids, but was always there....and now I finally decided to. To say thank you Doug, for everything you've done for us, for every video you guys made in all these years, for every movie or series you reviewed❤❤❤

If I had to say, I would blame family guy for the standard look. It’s good for Family Guy for what it is but when other animation companies try to adapt it, it comes out looking like what you see in the Simpsons today.

I think if I had to bring up an instance of this I really enjoyed, I'd have to say The Owl House. If you've seen footage of the show, you know that the standard animation that makes up a bulk of the episodes is nothing really insane or super expressive. It gets the job done, but something I've always noticed is for the good facial/body expressions the characters can have, the animation just kinda makes them transition from one pose/face to the other, like this very direct translation from storyboard to animation. The show does have animation bumps, where the poses flow a lot more smoothly, but as well-animated as they were, I couldn't shake the feeling that something was still missing. Then comes the episode "Clouds on the Horizon", with that well-received of Luz and Amity kissing for the first time. Animation bump again, but this time the animation is not only smooth, but *bouncy and stretchy*, too. You can see the way their facial features squish and stretch when they move, there's a tiny bit of recoil when they're supposed to stop, a bunch of other tiny details really makes the animation come to life, even in still shots. For context, the scene in question was done by Tom Barkel (you might know him from stuff like Rise of the TMNT, LEGO Monkie Kid, the "Rock the Dragon" animation jam for Dragon Ball), who would return a couple more times to do animation in the show that once again always stuck out as a lot more bouncy and stretchy, but not in a bad way (see the final fight scenes in "Thanks to Them" and "Watching and Dreaming" as examples). I've heard people talk about in the past (before the Barkel episodes) how that kind of animation wouldn't work for a more grounded show like Owl House, but with the right vision, using things like squash-and-stretch in animation can still give flavor and life to a grounded and realistic setting, and Barkel's work on the show proves that. I wanna go back to the usual animation for the show, though, which like I mentioned before is a lot more divided between individual poses and faces, like a direction translation from the storyboard (I hesitate to use the word "stiff" because there *are* stiffly-animated shows out there. The Owl House is certainly not one of them). To my knowledge, this is most likely due to communication gaps between the storyboarders/writers and the overseas animation studios that are commonly contracted to (as opposed to more inhouse animation) for cost-cutting purposes. The distance and lack of personal communication, I'm hypothesizing, leads to the animators only really animating what they're told to, without much wiggle room for more precise things like microexpressions and squash-and-stretch. And this isn't a TOH-exclusive thing; like Doug mentioned in this video, this is pretty much what happens across a lot of animated TV nowadays, and it puts a lot of pressure on storyboard artists to take care of more stages of the pipeline like revision, timing, etc. I actually recall this conversation on Twitter between Milo Neuman and Matt Braly (twitter.com/Radrappy/status/1774128443942469943), who put into words a lot better than I can this.. overly professional relationship that inhouse crew members have with overseas animators as a result of things like the communication barrier. Honestly, I'm still learning a lot about the animation industry, so if there's any more insight someone else with different/more experience may have on the topic, I'd be glad to hear it.

2:16 spoilsport sceptic here, I'm betting that was either wind from an open door or window (and for anyone who says wind isn't _that_ strong....he lives in Chicago) or your cat pushing the door open and walking in.

It sounds, at least based on my take away from the video that Doug would adore Smiling Friends. The animation is the most creative diverse animation as there is so many variants in style that every character has a different style to suite there character. Not even including the sharp and funny writing and I also can't remember a single time he's talked about this show before.

Just bingef your Top 11 Simpsons epiodes! Amazing as ever

14:12 I think there is an error in your understanding on animation. Not every frame of a static character standing still is redrawn standing still, there are short cuts animation studios do to save on money and hard labor. In traditional animation, no one is going to redraw a character if that character is not moving.

Marge is kinda underrated as a character.

My argument against on-model animation: Do you look on-model when you sneeze? I do have to take some issue with comparing cg animation to puppetry though, having seen enough rough footage just in behind the scenes stuff and listening to artists who work on it - less like a puppet, more like a claymation model, at least when it's done properly. A good cg model acts like claymation, not like a puppet.

I agree We need more expressive animations Not more cardboard cutouts

The early seasons of the Simpsons were animated by Klasky-Csupo (of Rugrats fame)