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Most people buy gear, tweak tones and watch gear demos. A few play, write and actually release music.

@FrightboxRecording

Жыл бұрын

LMAO...you're 1000% spot on. It's sad, but true.

@rickraydubs

5 ай бұрын

Some of us do both lol

@TheRockinDonkey

29 күн бұрын

Every time I see people go off about which wood creates the best tone, whether tube amps or solid state amps are better for your sound and I always come back to the same thing: the audience doesn't care about that. They care about good songs and performances. They don't care if you're playing a guitar made of plywood, they just came to rock and you better rock that audience.

Sorry Bobby, I have to justify all the money I spent, will pretend I didn't see the video. But very cool video.

@FrightboxRecording

Жыл бұрын

🤣

@RobSouthworth

Жыл бұрын

Excellent insight Bobby, I guess this could apply to other tracks in a sense also vox etc. it’s what the dish tastes like on the plate rather than an ingredient of the recipe.

Yes, a guitar planted in the mix sounds "thin" in solo mode. I think this realization happens quickly to everyone who starts learning how to mix rock/metal music.

@rickraydubs

5 ай бұрын

It's counterintuitive even when you 'know.' I changed quite a bit of my old EQ habits because of production.

Instantly when the 2nd mix kicked in i thought how the bass sounded so thick with that nice clanky sound n made the guitar tone sound so much clearer than the 1st

You've proven that the production as a whole is more important than just the guitar tone for the final result, not that the guitar tone isn't important.

So true!!! Good tone is: 1) Being in tune!!! 2) Playing in time!!! 3) In your fingers 4) Beyond your control, once a mix engineer gets ahold of it. Beyond that, you're just looking for excuses to fail. 😅

@StephGV2

Жыл бұрын

Also maybe not obsessing about having the same tone as guitarists from other bands that you like if you're not in a tribute band.

@FrightboxRecording

Жыл бұрын

@@StephGV2 Couldn't agree more!

@Osoch

Жыл бұрын

Agree on all these, but you are missing one VERY important factor: Playing with ATTITUDE. When I was producing my band's latest EP, the guitarist was complaining about not finding a good tone, they all sounded weak to his ears. So I asked him to send me the DI tracks to test something. I recorded the same riff that he was playing and the difference was abysmal. When I showed it to him he agreed mine sounded way better but he was blaming his pickups! Which is funny because his pickups are hotter than mine, in theory he should get a heavier sound easier. The truth is I learned from years of recording my own playing that if you want to sound heavy, you have to play really f*cking heavy. Not saying you should play super hard and tense, but improving your technique and your pick attack so you get the strings really moving. Palm mutes are especially affected by this. You don't want a weak sounding tone? Don't play like a b*tch :b

@mikebozik

Жыл бұрын

@@Osoch Gotta hand it to you, I think you're right. Being able to nail the style with the right attitude plays a big role!!! 😎

It's also amazing what some simple high-pass/low-pass filters and a multi-band compressor on the mid-bass (and some low-mid) frequencies can do for guitars in a mix.

Im guilty of tweaking guitar tone but I'm slowly improving. However, thanks to you, Bobby, I've learned that keeping right balance between tracks and aligning them in phase gives massive difference. I think the key word of this video is "context".

I’m still a novice and hardly anything more than a hobbyist/hack. I too am a guitarist and I record and mix and all simply to try to give a gift to my 18 year old self who grew up in the 80’s when home recording was, well, not a thing. But here’s something that blew my mind when I was hacking away. I’d obsessed over tome and riffs and all that and played everything over a simple drum beat, just a glorified metronome. Nothing ever sounded good. So I decided I’d record a riff then a) add a bass line (ezbass) and b) a decent drum beat behind it, something that’s actually a groove. Sometimes I’d even record a keys/ambient layer too. Then I played the “mix” and holy shit it was like another world. Then I’d loop it and mute the bass and the keys. Suddenly it was wtf happened?? It was then I realized that the whole is way more than the sum. I’d also cut way off the bottom of the guitars, like up to 100-120. And maybe off the top down to 8k. I’d also cut that hiss around 35-4k. The alone tone sounded weak. But it made room for the other stuff and it’s the other instruments that make it come to life. The secret to a great riff and tone is the other parts and how they fit and support. It is a hit to our guitarist egos. But hey, there’s no I in team 😂😂😂

I'm in the process of endlessly tweeking my guitartone right now... Good times, haha

Amazing video as always Bobby! I was wondering which type of microphones are better for clean vocals and screaming as well (like Deftones) because I'm starting on this. I was going to buy a cheap one like the Behringer xm8500 but now I don't know anymore. Thanks in advance!

really go vid! I've never blamed my guitar tone, just why the overall mix sounds like ass but after a long plateau, my mixes have gotten better recently!

Brilliant examples! Thank you once again!

Very cool video, and spot on!

I wonder where my mixing journey would have been if I haven’t encountered your videos. Always grateful for each content you create here. Thank you very much Mr. Bobby

I thought it was the same guitar tone but just a different bass tone. Wasn't even paying attention to the drums while focusing on differences between the guitar tones. Awesome content as always!

Bobby, that is one of the best videos on this subject! Thank you for making it!

Well, you've totally got me this time, Bobby. I was really surprised!

You should have seen my face on the second guitar isolation lmao Thank you for this video, it's a must seen one !

Hey Bobby - awesome vid as always! Aside from tight performances, mixing in the context of the mix is crucial. Mixing in solo is a classic newbie fail..I know..I used to to do it too! I ditched all my graphic eq's, and only use knob based eq's like the SSL eChannel. I turn knobs till the instrument sounds like I want it in the mix...and use only my ears. Sometimes I've done a 15db boost at 8k just on the snare. Would never do that with a graphic eq cos it just looks wrong. With knobs..don't care..I keep turning till it sounds good

Really interesting the way you made it shown that an isolated guitar part isn't the end all be all. It's about the mix as a whole. It is ironic that the best mix had a worse sounding isolated guitar, but that was your point, great takeaway! I love the Maniac shirt! That shotgun scene/head explosion is so awesome!

i figured out "mix context" and "freq carving" and hard panning a handful of years ago. went from producing sonic waffles, to mixes i prefer over half of what i listen to. all this checks out

Another great vid! Eye opening!

Hey Bobby! Could you make a video about mixing the background vocals like the harmonies and doubles?

Hey, Bobby! Great video, man! Can you make a video about editing guitars? It would be great. Cheers.

That’s actually a pretty crazy trick! The second guitars sounded more “midrange only” when played by themselves.. Do you roll off lows and highs on that one to give it more cut in the mix?

Thanks for the video Bobby. So true! After playing guitar for 20 years, it's taken me about 17 years to realise that the guitar tone/sound is based on 1) the performance 2) the attack from your picking hand 3) the IR/speaker. The rest isn't so important :-)

What do you do about the High-gain noise, with out loosing the Sustain, and that aweful trailing 'crackle' with the noise gate? always a pain..

With palm mutes how to tame that booming sound? And how much of it you can get rid of and how much of it you think is acceptable? I use the basics aka high pass at 100Hz, Multiband comp from 100 to 200Hz, I wonder is there anything else you can do to tame that "boom"?

I have a similar issue as in this video but instead of Guitar I obsess over bass tone. Maybe not the tone itself but more the low end itself. Maybe I just need more practice mixing quickly and going a more trial and error approach. Great video btw!

@FrightboxRecording

Жыл бұрын

The secret to sick metal bass tone: Brand new strings, aggressive & TIGHT/EDITED performances and balanced EQ settings on the bass itself (if using active pickups). 95% of a great bass tone comes from a quality DI.

Wow! This video opened my eyes a good bit! Thanks brotha man!

Great vid dude!

I'm glad you finally have someone to articulate it.

The L-C-R thing must just be a heavy music standard. I listen to a lot of podcast interviews with famous mixers, and I can assure you that at least half of them don't advocate for strict L-C-R.

Do you have a mixing template in reaper?

I`m struggling with balancing volume of different instruments, before messing with Eq/compression, would be awesome if you did something with this topic!

@jani14jani

Жыл бұрын

I second this.

@onoesmurlocs

Жыл бұрын

yeah me too , I found references helps , but its still feel like I can never settle on a good balance.

@insertanynameyouwant5311

Жыл бұрын

@@onoesmurlocs true that. I find references useful mostly for EQ decisions but not overall volume balance. Hope Bobby will notice us. Another trick I`ve learned from Let`s talk about Reaper channel is mixing with pink noise, but that doesn`t give decent results usually

So.. help me out here.. I thought on the first mix the guitar was more prominent and the bass was more buried.. on the 2nd the bass popped out more so i heard more bass guitar and less guitar on the 2nd mix. Like the balance was shifted.. so am I bad for thinking the 1st mix balance (just the balance) not the timing or the other mixing issues.. just the guitar and bass balance

im to lazy to double trk my rtm gtrs so i copy an paste with some time apart seems to work for the stereo sound for me when panned!

I really want to hear tone 1 with mix 2.

rolled off the Bass/low-mids for tone #2 in the mix, it doesn't collide with the kick and the bass. The tone #1, had too much low end and it made more mud.. Hard panning.. LCR (or is it RCL hehe).. middle far left or far right.. works great

One thing I've learn is that heavy guitar sound are thin (What?, I know right1). Glenn Fricker and Scott Elliot talked about this. It's not about making the guitar heavy, but using the bass guitar the fatten up the guitar tone with the lows cut out. This should also explain why 2nd example sound more focus.

Way back, most guitarists got their first real amp aged between 16 and 18, and that's the amp they used throughout their 20s and 30s playing and recording. Two of my three closest guitarist friends use 100w amps from Fender and Peavy, the other downgraded his 70s Marshall to a 50w Marshall when it started misbehaving. Things are definitely different now. There's a whole lot of analysis paralysis, chasing tone is almost so accessible anyone can get hooked on it. It's become important only because it's possible, like all of 21st century life. Old man yells at cloud. I'm a bass player, but I've started playing guitar (badly) over the last decade and a half. I've tried amp sims, but I prefer my 70s 50w Marshall combo with a Two Notes power soak. (It's still too loud!) And that's because the amp sims I've tried are designed to be useful in a mix. They sound pants by themselves, but great tucked in amongst the bass and drums.

Some of your videos are exactly the ideas I had but never did cos lazy ass. I really like this channel!!

I personally always try to find good tones, but I don't obsess with it. If it sound good, well, it's good! Hard to understand how a lot of people don't get that everything is related, you should work the production as a whole thing, not solo instruments...it's called "mixing" for a reason.. And yes you're right, all parts of the production should be given attention.🤟

@GallowayJesse

Жыл бұрын

I've come to the realization that some people just don't have the ear/mind for it. And alot of those people are musicians who otherwise have a great sense of rhythm, melody & harmony.

How DARE you imply that me spending too much on guitar plugings and not knowing how the fuck to dial them is the problem. No no no, i need another £100+ guitar vst

Awesome video. I agree 100%

The one that got me is tight tracking and playing. I THOUGHT I was tight, until I spent a few months practicing specifically to a metronome, double-tracked, until it was tight enough to need no editing. The "tone" difference is huge, with exactly the same guitar tone that I started with. So now I don't skimp on the tracking / "getting it right at the source" stage any more. There's no fixing it in the mix - it should sound like a record as soon as your levels are more or less there.

not all of acord, the guitar tone counts and a lot. Through the tone it is the musician who expresses himself. If the tone is bad, the performance will be bad because the tone is uncomfortable. Guitarist identifies with the tone, that's his signature!

Bobby, not everyone is recording Cookie Monster-vocal THRASH metal. When the guitars are saturated and compressed to hell and back and the notes and chords are all staccato, your precious TONE goes out the window and all that really remains are the transients of the guitar. You have some decent videos but all of them relate to thrash metal.

@aaronedmunds5685

Жыл бұрын

He's a rock and metal producer.. go figure!!! if you get nothing from his content that relates to you then go elsewhere.

definitely been guilty of this but I think I'm getting there

Thank you. Yes I suffer from this. When it comes down to it SOMETIMES it is preference and not perfection. That is subjective.

Best production series ever, period.

Why do all the instruments sound like midi instruments? Are you locking in the guitar and bass to grid too?

I think he is kinda right. Everybody talks about this search for elusive tone. I been playing 41 years and I found my tone not long after that. I can pretty much get almost any amp and guitar to get exactly the tone I want instantly. No eq trippin. My eqs are always between 4 and 7. Easy.

While I agree on the premise but this is not a fair comparison because you compared two different mixes and not the guitar tones. A fair comparison would be to keep the other instruments the same and change only the guitar tone.

@FrightboxRecording

Жыл бұрын

That's the whole point. The idea is that the surrounding production directly affects the perceived guitar tone. So many people think they have a guitar tone issue, when they really have an editing and mixing issue.

I can't hear the bass in the first example but I can definitely hear the bass articulation the second example

So I just realized it's not the tone but my mixing skills that sucks lol Awesome video as usual

@FrightboxRecording

Жыл бұрын

Remember that tracking and editing are just as (or more) important as the mix itself 🤘

I love this video. We rarely get to hear just the "final mix" guitar tone out of context and it really does lead us to spending so much time and money chasing a good tone. I always said guitar sounds like butthole and I hate mixing it. I needed this video 10 years ago lol. It took me so long to just give up on my tone, focus on bass, drums and the master before I realized.. wow my guitar tone sounds better for some reason.

Agree.Its like you are on YT and you get lost from your original mindset, there are too many choices.

I love this video. Tone chasing is pointless in most applications. I mean yea get a good sound, but 99% of people won't hear the difference in the finished product. Even guitar solos...just double track them and you get a great result.

@bread6085

Жыл бұрын

I mean yeah but if you have a shit tone you will be less inspired to make cool music. When I have a filthy guitar tone it makes me wanna write and record stuff.

The guitar is a tactile instrument.You’re using the flesh of your hands to interact with it, and regardless of everything else you use, the sound you make comes from you. Every guitarist sounds different, and that’s because every guitarist is different. That’s the beautiful thing about playing the instrument

sounds like there are differences in the first two tracks besides the guitars, which clouds any comparison of the guitar tones.

Great video. I think for a great tone for heavy music u want tighter low end sound lower the bass so it won't be all booomy and thud over the sound and gain I keep gain not high too much it will be harsh and buzzy middle I keep low just my taste in a good metal death metal sound I use actives ahb3 mick thompson jackson dinky drop A

to be honest i still felt like the secont tone was better even in isolation, the first one has too much gain and is kinda harashy imo and the second one has better mids a more full sound, the only thing is that the second tone sounds like only has a filter to sound like "old" and lo-fi ish but thats it

Been playing for over 45 years. Bars, big stage, parties, outdoor events, small gigs,recorded reel to reel tape, cds, even old school records, digital every which way etc….you get the idea. Nobody, but nobody gives 2 #$*@s about guitar tone that just listens to music (non musicians or producers) just average Jane or Joe. As a guitarist it matters to me so I am not fighting my gear but frankly nobody else in the real world cares. It’s the song, hook and beat or as my wife says just the words if she can understand them…….kinda like an artist that obsessed over a brand of paint….yet we keep on tweaking just because we can……

What comes out and cuts through the guitar tone more is what the rest of the tracks lack. If your guitar sounds sizzling and harsh, add that sizzle and harshness to other tracks and your guitars will sound great. Or vice versa.

Very impressive.

Kudos to the title name. Damn does that pull someone in lol.

As a guitarist. I obsess over bass tone when recording and mixing. I already know how I want my guitar to sit in the mix. Bass has been fun but a pain in the ass lately.

Well, depends on the musician ear, touch sensation, I think that about every component matter. On the recording it isn't that a real issue as the mic / DI becomes the catalyst, beside a high gain amp, metal music in particular doesn't requires anything very specific, there's so much inharmonics on the distortion that a rosewood or ebony fretboard will do only the tiniest difference for the one who play the guitar. While recording Jazz music I can guarantee you that even switching from high carbon to nickel plated steel strings or using Alnico 8 instead of Alnico 3 do a dramatic difference. 1st and foremost, just like Frank Zappa once said to Steve Vai: the "tone" is in your head.

The first guitar tone doesn't work in the context of the mix because the high end and fizz is competing with the cymbals.

It seems that in the context of a full mix that less guitar is more guitar. 🎸

Awesome!

Another eye opener

2:25 the baassss

without reading comments or hearing your answer, the bass guitar is what shapes it.....

Great info! So, how do you handle something with a solo guitar, like the intro to Ratt's "Lay It Down"? You put that intro on a different track? Jeez, I love that tone. kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZGuCr6hvpZSadLg.html

It's the little things that matters. Hi from Finland 🇫🇮

The 2nd mix sounds better, but it's also slightly louder.

Guitar tone matters for inspiration while playing, in the mixing phase it's all fair game.

They both sounded computer and similar to me.but the endless struggle is real

This is why I think all guitarists should learn mixing. They have to learn the fact that their glorious and fat and punchy and basy guitar tone is the last thing you want to put into a full band mix. Especially the tube amp snobs. They think their 10 thousand dollar amp with a tun of punch, bass, and stupidly loud volume is the pinical of good tone, but it's almost never what their audiences get. They should try listening to isolated guitar tracks of of say Like Van H, Zack W, both Erics, Metalica, and so on. They listen to their tones isolated from the rest of the band especially from the base guitar, they will realize that their tones are nothing but either fizz fest, or a mud fest, or sound like they are coming out of a 2 inch speaker.

All tones are important. Everything is made out of different tones.

The day I got an evertune was like a curse in disguise because now I hear all the bad guitar player habits 😂 Jokes aside, that was an ah ha moment for me that helped in noticing that a lot of production 💩 comes from before the mixing phase. Thanks Bobby, these vids and pdf have helped a lot this year since I came back from my music hiatus 🤘

Tone not important!? My life, wasted! Kidding. I agree with other subs, I have no idea how shitty my mixes would sound if I didn't have this channel to make my production a whole lot better!!! Thank man!

I think you’re the only one who understands ‘bedroom musicians/producers’. Not everyone wants to spend money on plugins etc in the beginning coz you never know if people would like your music🤷‍♂️.Your videos are very helpful Bobby. I bought one of your courses and I didn’t waste the money for sure🤘. However…there’s a lot Atmospheric/Depressive Black Metal one man bands like me. I would say thousands. Unfortunately, nobody’s made a video how to mix, balance songs in this genre.Something like Thy Light- A crowling worm in a world of lies, Autumn Nostalgie- fallen leaves or ColdWorld- tortured by solitude. Black Metal scene is huge but the mixes aren’t made well. This is because good engineers don’t care of the genre so it’s really hard to find any advices from professionals like you.

Agreed. It really doesn’t make any difference with that racket! Both tones sound like a fart in a jar to me.

1st off how dare you 2nd of all yeah you're right. I just find a tone I like and dial it in the best I can before mixing. I spend very little time on guitars I wish bass and drums were as easy

Listening to this on phone speakers I honestly thought you were gonna say that the tones were the same😅

Great video. It reminds me of how the guitar tone Max Norman got for Randy Rhoads is often praised even though heard in isolation it sounds like pure crap. Norman just knew well what you're teaching in this video. Good company to keep I think Bobby, well done.

I bet the difference is in the thickness of the nitrocellulose lacquer on the guitar body 🤷🏻‍♂️

@FrightboxRecording

10 ай бұрын

😂

by the way maybe because im not a bass player but i care none the less but it seems that i can dial in bass tone in 10 minutes! lol

So you are saying i'm dumb? Jokes on you i already knew that! Check mate!

I'll tell you exactly why guitar players freak out about hard panning, If you have ever had a car stereo where one of the speakers were broken, now you can't hear 1 of the guitars. What if that guitar is your guitar that you or the listener can't hear.😂 I always hard pan the guitars, it sounds better.

Fuckn sick Maniac shirt

Agree/disagree. Obsession with guitar tone for production doesn't matter, but live tone does matter. I get your point though. Thanks for the tips!

@FrightboxRecording

Жыл бұрын

I do gotta say this though...as someone who does front of house, it's always the players with the minimal/simplistic rigs that seem to have the best tones.

@XSUFFOKATEX

Жыл бұрын

@@FrightboxRecording I agree with that for sure. I'm using a Fractal FM3 so my signal chains are pretty basic and comparable to being simplistic. Helps translate better to production.

This is genre specific. Metal is more slammed, in your face than grunge, blues, soft rock. Especially if there's parts only the guitar is playing. Good video tho

If trying out two hundred amps and not being happy... Maybe the pickups needs to be changed. (joke)

Ear opening...