I run oar-rights, so no "spinnies." I'm with Zach on using pins/clips on the harder water and most true Class V boaters I know run pins/clips or other posi-lock type systems. Funny that most of the "debate" over this topic on the forums is by Class III boaters! People, row what you like, but don't look down on others using a different system.

"spinnies"!? the disrespect dude... haha. I grew up on open oar locks. the feathering freedom is where it's at. Once you get used to feathering, the chaotic "spinny" nature is drastically reduced. Now if I'm doing a technical river or maybe if I'm boating with someone less experienced on the oars, then sure I guess, I'll throw the bumpers on. I've never tried pins and clips, but after watching you row with them, I'm intrigued. Skeptical, but intrigued. Many thanks, Zach. Love what you're doing with the channel.

@GearGarageTV

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah spinnies are great for Class III and multi-day but for harder rivers they're not as solid. Glad to hear you're enjoying the channel.

Great videos Zach! I started out as a guide on pins and clips, and currently run oar rights on my personal NRS E140. Pins and clips worked OK on several rivers but i had one major issue with them. When running huge class IV water runs on the Lochsa, I personnaly experienced and witnessed several explosive guide launches and oar releases that violently sheared guides right out of the seat. We were running 14 foot and 16 foot Maravias doing guide training in high water. It was especially bad for new guides in training who accidently reached over a violent eddy line or caught a rock with an oar. If the clip was too tight, it would build a lot of energy in a bent shaft and suddenly release violently. Too loose, and it wouldn't stay on the pin. Once released, the oars were harder to clip back in. Once the oar popped out you were at the mercy of the river until you got it back in. I liked pins and clips better on high volume rivers like the Salmon and the Snake.

Sorry for the old post, but what Cherry Creek are you talking about here?

@GearGarageTV

12 күн бұрын

The one in California

Have you tried using the Gilman Grips with oar locks yet? I'm curious if you feel like they would keep you oriented vertically enough to make up for the pins and clips keeping your blade upright.

@GearGarageTV

4 жыл бұрын

I haven’t tried the Gilman Grips yet but hope to someday. One of the advantages of pins and clips is that the blade stays vertical but there are several more important advantages that I don’t think the Gilman Grips will help with.

Which is more robust for the weekend warrior? Rogue?, Chamberlain Falls? Middle Fork Salmon? Rivers with rocks.

I use oar locks, I like the freedom to feather and slice air on returning the blade for the next stroke. I install oar rights on the oar sleeves upside down so the oar grips/handles are spaced almost touching. This allows me to to row controlling the angle of the blades with finesse that is not possible with pins & clips. When conditions warrant I can roll the oar wrights into the oarlocks and stabilize the blades. While learning to row with oar locks I missed critical strokes occasionally if my grip on the handle slipped and the blade angle wasn’t aligned correctly. I remedied this problem by securing the oar with the blade plumb ( perpendicular to the ground) and filing the top and the bottom of the handle flat creating an oval shape. With the oval shaped handle I know where the blade is and eliminate “the spinnes” and never miss a power stroke when I need it. To coin a phrase, it takes 10,000 strokes to master the art of rowing, whichever system one chooses.

Oh jeez. All I've ever used was ringed spinnies, no locks. Ash wood. Class v's. I really need to experience this "new" technology 🤔.

Another great video. Of course like all of us who cut our teeth at OA, I'm firmly on Team Pins and Clips. I do take one exception with you saying you use "spinies" on the Rogue though. I assume you forgot to mention that you switch out to Pins and Clips to run Coffee Pot. That rapid is terrifying. Keep up the good work buddy.

@GearGarageTV

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah that makes a lot of sense to bring an extra set of oars so you can switch from pins and clips to oar locks just above Coffee Pot. I'm glad you like the videos!

I started with pins n clips. Now I like spinnies with a convertible oar right. I agree clips are better for really hard rivers. I've had the rights pop up on me once or twice unexpectedly in a rapid, which is hard to manage with the surprise factor. Nice effects. Glad you survived the dragons.

I love your videos. I don't have any friends.

Those pins and clips you’re using look different from the ones I’ve seen and used. Which brand are those?

@GearGarageTV

5 жыл бұрын

Clavey Paddlesports sold them about 10 years ago

It’s basically if you like feather or not

We are pinning clips to tethered oars in the lochs... Who brought the whisky?

I have a set of rope wrapped cataract oars. Can you run a pin and clip setup with rope wrapped on the oars?

@GearGarageTV

4 жыл бұрын

Yes it works if the clip fits over the wrap. It depends on the diameter of the wrap and the size of your clip.

@1LE4ME

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you for responding, I love your videos! I've ran both spinnies and pins and feel more comfortable with pins and clips. We launch on the Middle Fork July 26th!

@GearGarageTV

4 жыл бұрын

@@1LE4ME I'm stoked to hear you like the videos and that you like pins and clips. Have a great Middle Fork trip!

This is cracking me up

When navigating narrow rivers and streams or sections of larger rivers with “pinball” boulders, having oar locks with bladerights can be the difference between a successful run or being flipped because the “pins and clips” system didn’t allow you to shuttle your orders when you come upon a sudden obstruction.

@GearGarageTV

3 жыл бұрын

I completely disagree

I watched this video for the second time last night and I started thinking about what you said about pins and clips keeping you in the boat vs oar locks letting you jettison out of the back. I've never seen this done but why not put another stopper towards the bottom of the wrap? Wouldn't that serve the same purpose, i.e keep you from flopping out of the stern

@GearGarageTV

4 жыл бұрын

Yep. This is the best solution for spinnies: kzread.info/dash/bejne/emefuLSOXdPfncY.html

@weirdbeard1980

4 жыл бұрын

@@GearGarageTV I saw that video but I wasn't clear on how it actually attaches to the oar. You said it tapes on which didn't seem like something that would hold in the event of being thrown backwards. But you're a bigger dude than I am and know way more than I do about running rivers so if you say it works maybe I'll have to check it out.

Wait? WTF dragons haha! But yes pins and clips.

Creature Craft runs Pins and Clips...you need it there and the power to make must needed moves..The whole feathering thing takes me back to the big hair 80's...The feather due..

Zach has made it very apparent that what he likes is best. Haha! Which would you rather have if you bust a blade or oar shaft in long stretch of class V whitewater? I can change an oar locked oar much quicker by popping it in the oarlock than pins clips where you have a sleeve to contend with. How are pins and clips any better than oar-rites?

@ripnlip33

3 жыл бұрын

Oh wait you guys are California boaters. No wonder you use pins and clips. In Idaho, we don't like your opinion anyway. Haha! JK

@GearGarageTV

3 жыл бұрын

One advantage in Class V is that you can hold on to your oars for stability. Here is some video rowing one open oar lock and one pin and clip on technical water that demonstrate some of the differences.

I'm with Brodie. "Spinnies" are Superior. The only possible pins+clips advantage I got from your talk is potentially keeping you from falling off the back of your seat. Otherwise, oar locks (+/- Oar-Rights) have P+C beat in every way. Plus, something you didn't talk about, popping an oar with P+C in the middle of gnar can completely derail everything -- usually needing to drop you other oar to slam the popped oar back in place (hopefully on the first try).

@GearGarageTV

6 жыл бұрын

I'm surprised you like spinnies

@danmartin8555

6 жыл бұрын

I can't wait to to the split-boat-study with pins and clips on one side and oar locks on the other.

@GearGarageTV

6 жыл бұрын

It's quite fun

@Golightoutdoors

4 жыл бұрын

Nope on the needing to drop the oar. Run stirrups and keep the clips relatively loose.

Spinnies the only way too go, I've used them on the Colorado for years. There what I know, Brodie is absolutely correct, sorry Zach 🤔🤣 🤔

@GearGarageTV

4 жыл бұрын

David Roberts spinnies are great for easy rivers like the Colorado. I’m glad you’re enjoying them!

@davidroberts5577

4 жыл бұрын

@@GearGarageTV They are indeed, they are what I'm used to. Perhaps I'll try some pins in the future 🤔

@davidroberts5577

4 жыл бұрын

On second thought 🤔 When I watch your videos, the Rivers you are running look awesome and most interesting. But I don't think Cataract Canyon would be considered an easy stretch of River. But I'll be honest and say Big Volume Rivers are what I have most my experience guiding on, and where I used my whitewater rescue skills. But that stated: It would be awesome too run some of the technical rivers you all are. Your channel is Absolutely Awesome, keep up the good work! Sincerely, David

Feathering or what you call "spinners" is just more precise. You're not fighting eddys.... just a feather a bit and it pops out. Natural wrist action moving the entire oar out front/behind. Training wheels vs. skill?? ....Totally kidding, but P&C do drive me nuts, to each their own. Does Brodie do videos?

@GearGarageTV

4 жыл бұрын

You don’t fight eddies with non spinnies either since you can just push down on the oar handles and the blades come out of the water. I’m trying to get Brodie to do more videos but he’s rarely off the River.

Kayaker here, hate pins and clips. Hate oar rights. How can you not know your blade angle?? Love the feel of open open oar locks.

@GearGarageTV

4 жыл бұрын

Rod Depensider its not too difficult to know your blade angle on Class II and III but on more difficult rivers it gets harder

@ironwillie7666

4 жыл бұрын

@@GearGarageTV I wouldn't know, I don't boat much class 2.... (hehe) But seriously, what gets harder?? I know a lot of people who have that same issue. When it gets hard, they lock up! (pun intended) I say: "relax a bit," the game will slow down with experience. IMHO, Its super nice to change blade angle in the current when the river is tugging. At least that's my take. I will admit that I got jammed in ribs with the oar handle once and that made me reconsider pins/clips. But a few beers later and I forgot the pain...

@GearGarageTV

4 жыл бұрын

Cool. If you’re happy with oar locks then use them. I prefer oar locks for Class III/IV and pins and clips for Class IV/V but can use either. One of the big advantages of pins and clips is that you can can hold onto the oars for stability when the raft gets tossed around. With oar locks you have to let go and grab your frame or risk being tossed out of the raft.

@ironwillie7666

4 жыл бұрын

@@GearGarageTV I just grab the seat between my legs and ride it out like a bull. One hand in the air if I can and put down 8 seconds for the ride to a PBR win! I really don't boat super hard water. Lochsa, SFS, SFC, lower 5 in a 14x22 maravia is my top end. Maybe if I did the middle NPF I'd think differently??? But I really don't have a crew to run that with.. Nor the guts! At 50, I'm pushing it. Great channel btw..

@GearGarageTV

4 жыл бұрын

Rod Depensider I consider letting go of your oats as bad form but it sounds like it works for you.