To be fair, Pippin's song, though overblown with symbolism in the movie, is actually very beautiful on it's own.

I'll give Doug credit regarding a part of #3: I really wish they didn't have a scene where Sam found the bread, crushed it, and then looked angrily upward. Just having him show up to fight Shelob would have been fine, and would have made sense given his loyalty to Frodo.

@4besideyouintime

9 жыл бұрын

+jw8395 the bread thing was one of those "let's spoon feed the audience" moments with a "oh, so now i have the confirmation that gollum really screwed me. gotta go back and help frodo". i understand its uselessness but happens in every movie

@jw8395

9 жыл бұрын

4besideyouintime Damn padding. Believe it or not, much like the Nostalgia Chick, I actually liked those "gajillion endings". To paraphrase her, it ties up loose ends, and it shows the effect that "leaving the nest" has had on the Hobbits when they get back home

@LennoxLewis86

8 жыл бұрын

+jw8395 Some fat people have difficulty remembering what they ate. So it really makes perfect sense. Sam saw the evidence he didn't eat the bread, and only then could he return to Frodo. Because Sam is the kind of guy that when you're not filming him he would totally steal your lunch. And after many long and hungry days Sam wasn't sure of himself anymore. I personally still think he fucking took it. But since Sam is important to the story, the filmmakers had to protect him and put the blame on Smeagol.

@jamiethedinosaur869

8 жыл бұрын

+jw8395 And they could have cut that scene instead of the ones with Saruman.

@jw8395

8 жыл бұрын

LennoxLewis86 Sam doesn't seem like that kind of person, even in the books. His loyalty to Frodo would likely allow him to rein in some of his problems.

I may be a cynical old buffer, but I honestly think that the reason Saruman's death scene was cut was to give an added incentive for fans to buy the Extended Edition DVDs. Which, of course, I did.

@jameson32

8 жыл бұрын

+Steven McBrien You cynical old buffer....

@nifralo2752

8 жыл бұрын

+Steven McBrien I thought his death was quite silly with them all shouting up and down a giant tower.

@jobhunter5090

8 жыл бұрын

+Paul Olsen He probably did that in the hobbit due to the feedback from fans after not putting the saruman scenes in the original

@VenusMy129

7 жыл бұрын

I think it was to keep the rating lower. ROTK was really on the verge of being rated higher than the other two movies and therefore they needed to cut down the violence to gain mass audience

The eagle thing can be justified very easily. Sauron would easily see them coming, and prepare a million orcs to shoot the hell out of the eagles with arrows. Also, the Nazgul could get them easily by riding those dragons. It's not rocket science.

@chillbaloo5346

9 жыл бұрын

GreatSpaceToaster An eagle can definitely fly higher than arrows. Didn't you see the movie? The eagles handled the nazgul pretty well.

@jrny20

9 жыл бұрын

Tim Mair Haven't you played Fire Emblem? Arrows are a flyer' weakness.

@chillbaloo5346

9 жыл бұрын

jrny20 But can an orc hit an eagle from the ground?

@jrny20

9 жыл бұрын

Tim Mair I don't know, it is possible. Unless they have an Orc like Legolas, then it's a guaranteed hit.

@theeternalslayer

9 жыл бұрын

Dude the nazgul! People never bring them up! The eagles maybe strong but the nazgul are furious and carnivorous, again it'd be a slaughter of they flew in on the eagles, in the boom they actually being this up, its not rocket science! Know your lore people lol

"How would they put the Ring on their claw anyway?" The Ring can change shape... so... (that would've been friggin hilarious).

@deathroar409

10 жыл бұрын

It doesnt need to be worn to corrupt you anyways just close proximity is enough. Remeber boromir? He never wore/touched the thing yet it drove him mad

I know a good reason for Legolas's shield surfing: Because fuck you why not?

@SovereignStatesman

9 жыл бұрын

spikeharusame More like fuck you Tolkien.

@spikeharusame

9 жыл бұрын

Tom Evans Peter Jackson even said that the Shield Surfing probably made Tolkien roll in his grave, of course it's a movie, you're supposed to make it exciting

@SovereignStatesman

9 жыл бұрын

spikeharusame Yeah which means NOT STUPID.

@spikeharusame

9 жыл бұрын

Tom Evans Every movie has it's fair share of stupid moments, yeah, it was stupid, but it was still awesome

@SovereignStatesman

9 жыл бұрын

spikeharusame Awesomely STUPID. No, it was stupid from beginning to end. If you never read and understand the books then I guess it could be ok for a stupid movie

Seriously? The Eagles? Again? Ok, here are all the things that can stop the Eagles: 1. 9 Nazgul vs 5 Eagles is not such a good odd rating, especially considering that the Witch King (a powerful sorcerer) would still be alive and the fact that they weren't distracted by the battle infront of the gate. As you can see in the final battle, they sort off sprung into the fight with a surprise attack. 2. Orc and Goblin archers. There are forts filled with Orcs and the mountains are littered with them too. Not to mention all the garrisons in Mordor itself. All they'd have to do would be to aim up and blanket the sky in arrows. Flying above arrow range wouldn't work because the sky over Mordor has a solid cloud of smog so thick it even blots out the sun completely. The only reaon why they weren't shot down on the spot in the battle was well, there was a battle that required attention, and again, the surprise tactics. Plus, quite a percentage of his armies were defeated at Minas Tirith. 3. Saurons influence. The Eagles are beings of pure goodness. Mordor has been made a place of pure evil and Sauron's influence would have slowly withered them until they didn't even have enough strength to fly anymore before they made it a third of the way to Mt Doom. They could only have flown there and back after Sauron was killed. 4. Saurons directed power. The influence Sauron has on the land also allows him to cast powerful destructive magic where ever he looks with his one big eye. Outside of Mordor he can't, but inside he'd be able to turn the Eagles into fried chicken. Sam and Frodo stealthed their way to Mt Doom, never once being seen by the eye, so no fried Hobbits. 5. And lastly, but certainly not least. The Eagles aren't some oversized animal, they are age-old sentient beings, and too damn proud about it too. The only reason why they helped out Gandalf twice was because they owed him a favour. Even if all the above wouldn't have been true, asking them to launch a strike mission on Mt Doom to chuck down the ring would've been met with "Pff, what? Can't you do it yourself!?". The amount of convincing it took to have the Eagles come in the Battle of the Gate was phenomenal, and they still said "No!"... only to change their minds a while after, when the battle was already underway.

@TheTattorack

9 жыл бұрын

***** Thats because they can't. Gandalf is actually a kind of god-being. Superpowerful. But if he wants to exist on the surface of that world he had to, like the other wizards, put himself into Human form and limit his power considerably. If he would use his full power Middle Earth would be not much more than one big crater. The world just cannot sustain the overuse of godly powers. (More information about that in Tolkien's bestiary).

@0816M3RC

9 жыл бұрын

***** It is still a pretty lame excuse to not use them. It should have been brought up in the movies and then Gandalf dismissing the idea and explaining why. The Eagles easily killed the Nazgul. The Witch King was defeated by a human girl with no real formal combat training. I think the Eagles would have been able to kill him. If Gandalf rode on the back of one of the Eagles, this would further increase their chances. Heck he could probably project a shield to block any incoming arrows. As for Sauron's directed power, why was this never shown or mentioned? Why couldn't he fry Aragorn's army at the Black Gate? He looked directly at Aragorn. Lastly.. The Eagles being proud... Really? As you said they are beings of pure goodness so why wouldn't they jump at the chance to take Sauron down? It just seems like poor writing to me. Tolkien comes up with powerful beings like Gandalf and the Eagles and then comes up with excuses for them not using their full potential. It is also one of my major issues with the Lord of the Rings series and why I prefer A Song of Ice And Fire.

@TheTattorack

9 жыл бұрын

0816 M3RC It was explained in the Elf counsel, only got cut in the movies. A LOT got cut in the movies that could explain a ton of things. Like Tom Bombadil in the first book and the final battle in the Shire in the third (just to mention the two biggest cuts). You should also take what the Witch King said ("No man can kill me") literally. No MAN could kill him, but his powers were effectless on females from elves, dwarves and humans, and being in the presence of a women made him weaker. Also, she did have extensive training with the sword and could easily withstand an assault by three grown men (the reason why she protests so much when her father tells her she won't be joining the battle). When I said the Eagles were made of goodness I meant it literally; they are MADE of it. That doesn't avoid them being snobby about it (look at the elves) and they certainly don't want to be used. Neither do they like the idea of soiling themselves on something of pure evil. On top of that they were too proud to admit the fear they had for Sauron, the disciple of Melkor himself. Didn't I say Sauron could only use his powers inside of Mordor? (At least in his disembodied form). The army didn't go beyond the gate, so they didn't enter Mordor, so Sauron couldn't fry them. I also stated the Eagles used a surprise attack on an unsuspecting foe. The Nazgul never saw them coming before they were right on top of them.

@suckmyassloser3641

9 жыл бұрын

The way I see it only Gandalf knew how to summon the eagles. Maybe he was heading in that direction to find them before the balrog got him. They were definitely close to the area where the eagles saved Bilbo and company from the orcs. No Gandalf no eagles.

@TheTattorack

9 жыл бұрын

suckmyassloser Makes sense

Gandalf doesn't even touch the ring and he's almost affected by it, so no, the eagles couldn't have brought it themselves. The whole point of Frodo taking the ring is that he is like the least selfish person in the world. Of course, Frodo probably could have just ridden the eagle with the ring... yeah. But I think they overestimated how ready Sauron was and worried he would shoot down the eagles and take the ring. Also the might have thought Frodo would actually be a half decent thief, like Bilbo was. 20/20 hindsight. Oh and Sauramon isn't a human. I jut anted to point that out.

@PattyNadros

8 жыл бұрын

Well, the point of Frodo being the ring bearer wasn't because he was un-selfish, it was because Sauron was not expecting a hobbit to carry it, nevertheless carry it straight into mount doom. The Eagles also played no part because they didn't meddle in mens affairs. They had too much pride to just fly them there and be a taxi. Also, it would've been disastrous, simply because Mordor is covered with Nazgul, and I mean who wouldn't see giant eagles flying to mount doom.

@chillbro1010

8 жыл бұрын

+Patrick Nadro It is explained in the book that hobbits (bilbo, frodo, and smeagol in particular) seem to be very resistant. I believe Gandalf talks about it (not in length) about the extraordinary resistance of bilbo and even smeagol in the movies. It's just that, EXTRA. ORDINARY. Althought them being hobbits/walking it to mt doom were part of the decision to let him be the ringbearer... UNTIL FRODO PUTS ON THE RING SEVERAL TIMES, WARnING SAURON OF HIS COMING, as well as the fact SARUMAN TOLD THE ORCS TO BRING THE HALFLINGS TO HIM ALIVE. So assuming Saruman and Sauron chatted eachother up when they learned something, for about 1/2 of the movies both the dark lord and the head of the wizard order (who is both powerful and wise, according to Gandalf who is powerful and wise as well) know that the halflings have the ring and are bringing it to mordor... So basically, The point of Frodo being the ringbearer wasn't because he was un-selfish, but it also wasn't because he was "unexpected" to be a hobbit and carrying it to mount doom. Also yes, That would be the reason for the eagles not being a taxi, and it is the Nazgûl AKA ringwraiths (particularly the Witch-king) who prevents them from attacking head on, not the Winged Nazgûl (The things ringwraiths ride.) Also, to anyone wondering, Gandalf doesn't defeat the Winged Nazgûl, he was simply a threat they were unwilling to take on until the witch-king could assure domination as the witch king was more powerful than Gandalf.

@PattyNadros

8 жыл бұрын

Connor Hill I agree with everything you said! I literally knew everything you explained, but still I agree. One does not simply fly a giant Eagle straight into Mordor.

@chillbro1010

8 жыл бұрын

Patrick Nadro Sorry, If you knew that then why did you misrepresent the information? Pure of heart pretty much equals resistant to the ring. (Not in the lore, but as a movie device. Gandalf, for all his good, still lusts for power.) Also, It was more adding information for future readers who may not know. Seeing as more people exist in the world than you. Having similar or additional information to clarify can answer questions before they are even asked.

@chillbro1010

8 жыл бұрын

Patrick Nadro "wasn't because he was un-selfish, it was because Sauron was not expecting a hobbit to carry it" Is a misrepresentation as it says nothing about hobbits (or smeagol, bilbo, and frodo specifically) being resistant to the ring. It implies that anyone could carry the ring as long as sauron didn't expect it. Dude calm down, please don't take this as a personal attack or anything. I'm not trying to insult you... I understand not spending an hour researching everything, there is nothing bad about accidentally saying something in a way that doesn't give the full picture. I felt people might not understand the Nazgûl are both the RIDERS and the WINGED MOUNTS. They would think you meant the Winged Nazgûl and be confused because the eagles actually attacked them... when it really was the Ringwraith Nazgûl (specifically the witch-king) that prevented them from attacking. Again, im not trying to insult you, I AGREED with you on 90% of what you said, I just wanted to give extra information on the subject. There is no need to feel defensive, I was defending you...

I never got the impression that Frodo and Sam were gay, I think people are seeing what they want to see there. It's obvious they're just simple folk going through tremendous hardship together and forging a friendship deeper than most as a result. I never got the impression it was sexual, and there's nothing suggesting it. Also as for the eagles they would never have made it into Mordor, the whole point of keeping a small and unsuspecting group to try and destroy the ring was to NOT draw the full attention of Sauron. Flying giant eagles towards Mordor's borders would have obviously alerted him (I SEE YOU), and then Sauron would have stopped at nothing to pursue them until he had the master ring back within his control, even if it took every ring wraith, every dragon, every magical spell and minion within his command.

@KhanGarth

10 жыл бұрын

yeah and also the eagles dont answer to anyone except their leader, they are a proud race that owed Gandalf a couple small favors, not something as daunting and dangerous as flying to Mordor which likely like you said wouldve gotten most if not all of them killed.

@tvsonicserbia5140

10 жыл бұрын

Same with Sora and Riku from Kingdom Hearts!

Lord of the rings is the only film in history that brings tears to my eyes (mostly due to epicness) everytime I watch it. Its an epic masterpiece.

About the bread thing: I think that the implication is that Sam went back to fight for Frodo because of their friendship, but seeing the bread that started the argument to begin with is what reminded him of that. That, or he realized upon seeing the bread that there was no denying Gollum was trying to manipulate Frodo and get Sam out of the picture, so he had to go help him. Not the best explanations, I know, but it'd definitely make more sense than him realizing he didn't eat the bread.

@miniman649

8 жыл бұрын

+bouncycomix soo... he had to be reminded that he was Frodo's friend? *finds bread crumbs* Oh fuck I forgot we were friends and shit! Such a caring and nice guy.

@bouncycomix

8 жыл бұрын

miniman649 I already said it wasn't a perfect explanation.

@MsMaggyW

8 жыл бұрын

+bouncycomix I always interpreted it as Sam didn't realize where the bread had gone or what had happened, and when he found it there, he realized Gollum must have went through his stuff and framed him, and it made him angry enough to go back and get revenge. He realized Frodo really was being manipulated and had spoken unknowingly. Otherwise if Frodo wanted him gone, he would have left, because he always did whatever Frodo wanted.

Regarding #3: At the time the book was written, men could occupy the same space without everyone implying homosexuality. Hell, men used to even kiss as a greeting in some places. Nowadays putting your hand on another guy's shoulder is practically an announcement that you're out of the closet (and it's a toss-up whether you'll be shunned or given the Nobel Prize). I think the movies demonstrated this pretty well. Men who share a very deep friendship, unimpaired by the stigma that they're "totally gay, yo".

@u235u235u235

5 жыл бұрын

you like D?

You know, those lines about "Samwise the Brave" were actually in the book, right?

@amiefortman7220

8 жыл бұрын

+Rio Grande EXACTLY!! He's bitching about something that had been part of the books and their relationship in the first place!

@Commander_Shepard.

7 жыл бұрын

He said right in the beginning of the vid that he won't reference books when making the list. If he doesn't count bad things just because they are different from the book, he shouldn't ignore something just because it WAS in the book either.

@authoralysmarchand6758

7 жыл бұрын

I am a diehard of the movies and books (we have animas named after people in Elrond's family tree, FFS), but the movies need to be able to stand on their own. I think they do, and I don't min Samwise the Brave.

@sandrols7

6 жыл бұрын

it's not about wether they were in the books or not, it's more about their delivery of the lines, which can be really corny. I remember the first time seeing the movies and thinking 'god, those hobbits are almost romantic towards eachother' I believe the portrayal of their relationship, not necessarily the writing itself can be considered... unfitting, as in that it doesn't really represent friendship and loyalty towards one another, but maybe a bit too romantic. Sadly, this is not something I can prove, just something you can agree on or not, and if you don't, that's a good thing. I just know that NC, as well as me, weren't the only one who didn't always saw a well-writen friendship, just sometimes a bit corny, maybe too corny.

I actually didn't see any gayness between Frodo and Sam before the Internet shoved it in my face...

@TheSharbear14

10 жыл бұрын

That's what happened with me after I saw The Great Gatsby.

@Eon2641

10 жыл бұрын

I didn't see it as gay the first time, I did see it as cheesy and over the top. The second time I watched it I was a lot older and I saw it as kinda gay.

@michaelames7086

10 жыл бұрын

Sure, it was pretty cheesy, but I saw it as loyalty/friendship at its finest.

@Eon2641

10 жыл бұрын

Well it's not so much what they do as how they do it. Actually, not even how they do it, it's how they film them doing it. That bit where Sam's pretending to tell his kids about his adventures later is fine, it's the way they seem to make Frodo stare at him that's odd. It almost looks like longing in his eyes. Maybe I've been poisoned by the cynicism of the internet, or maybe it was too much, I honestly don't know I just know what it looked like to me. They're very... "tender" with each other.

@paulopereira2882

10 жыл бұрын

They were only gay in a platonic sort of way.

11) Just Letting Gandalf Die [] 2:10 10) Those Bajillion Endings []4:21 9) Gimli's Idiot Moments [] 6:57 8) Legolas's Perfect Moments [] 9:14 7) Those Close-Up Shots [] 11:38 6) Denethor [] 13:16 5) I'm Not Dead! [] 16:50 4) Arwen's Life Is Now Tied To The Fate Of The Ring [] 19:27 3) Frodo And Sam's Gayness [] 21:33 2) Saru ... Who? [] 25:09 1) Those Eagles That Could Have Stopped Everything [] 28:05

What about when Elrond was trying to get Isildur to destroy the ring? "I'll tell him really REALLY sternly, but fuck if I can do anything other than just stand here and watch him walk away with a source of great evil , dooming our entire world." Christ, is there some unwritten rule in Middle Earth about not interfering with completely avoidable situations if they're happening five feet in front of you?!

@xentenial

8 жыл бұрын

sakor88 What are you talking about? Remember the flashback in Fellowship? They were definitely in Mt. Doom.

@jameson32

8 жыл бұрын

+sakor88 "Just a movie invention"? We're discussing the logic of the LOTR movies for God's sake.

@lexuhbee

8 жыл бұрын

That was dissappointing the way the film made that out. Elrond was smarter in the books.

@lexuhbee

7 жыл бұрын

Elrond, having the gift of foresight, kind of knew the repercussions of interfering with history, and having had experience with other insane magic items coveted by dark lords(aka the Silmarils), which ended up in essence lightening Arda, or the "human" world with the trees of Valinor. So it was kind of just an "oh crap what do I do, maybe I shouldn't take this as my burden to bear because who knows maybe some good can come out of this" situation.

@lexuhbee

7 жыл бұрын

Well its an arbitrary argument in relation to the films. Its Peter Jackson. None of anything made much sense.

This discussion about Sam and Frodo's gayness is so stupid. Sam has clearly stated on numerous occasions throughout the trilogy that he wants to be with Rosie. He had a crush on her in Book 1 and eventually married her in Book 3. Frodo is a loner, like his uncle before him. Sam is Frodo's best friend and humble servant. They've been through hell together! It's only logical for them to be very close.

@goran77ish

10 жыл бұрын

Yes in books and they show that in movie but all Frodo/Sam scenes and pathetic conversations in movie look so gay.

@pie2413

10 жыл бұрын

If two guys ever show that they care about each others' well-being, people line up to say they're gay. It's a given at this point.

@tempeststorms7363

10 жыл бұрын

But they're so cute together

@rahulbond3m

10 жыл бұрын

they are a cute couple

@dlobom

10 жыл бұрын

The discussion is not about if they're gay or not, it is about why peter Jackson made them look so gay.

Some of these are actually the best reasons why LoTR is incredible and has such wide appeal. Critic's explanations often reveal misunderstandings about the purpose of these elements in the films. I'm only gonna focus on two in this comment. Denethor isn't supposed to be sympathetic or likeable; they specifically went in a more villainous route with him. The most detestable and interesting thing about him isn't even that he's a shitty politician, it's that he's a shitty father. That "likeable" moment where he was sad about Boromir's death is actually super ironic and ominous in context, because he's such a dick to Faramir. The "Mist and Shadow" scene actually ISN'T about how war is bad; it's about how sad it is that a father grieving his son is now sending his other son and his comrades to their deaths. That's what Pippin is crying about. That's also what's Shakespearean about it - it's an ironic family tragedy. Sam and Frodo's romantic friendship is fucking awesome, and there's a long and great tradition of romantic friendships between men in literature - does Critic hate Kirk and Spock too? How about Holmes and Watson? If you're going to make a friendship the center of your epic story, it can't be all no-touching and Budweiser and chicks, man, yeah, chicks. It needs to be emotionally intense and complex and profound. Sometimes emotional boundaries can be blurry; sometimes people have feelings of attraction to their friends and that just makes the friendship more intense, and doesn't mean that they are or want to be a couple. Or sometimes you feel 100% platonic about someone but you still want to touch their face to comfort them when they're sad. The most interesting relationships are the ones that defy categorization so why are you enforcing your 21st century compartmentalization on medieval fantasy people in a movie? The amount of touching between friends is very much a localized culture thing anyway; in some parts of the world other than America, straight male friends walk down the street holding hands. Sam and Frodo *ARE* meant to show the power of love. AND friendship. Because their relationship is both of those things. If you don't have any friends who you've felt intense love for I'm sorry; you'll just have to believe other people when we say that it can happen. And I'd rather watch 3 hours of friends who love each other than friends who feel, like, super chill and whatever about each other, thank you very much. tl;dr Stop putting words into the creators' mouths about what you think their intentions are, and just take the material at face value because that's how you'll learn about the creators intentions! And also open your mind a wee crack.

@theyruinedyoutubeagain

8 жыл бұрын

+Jokanaan agreed; it's also pretty clear he's ignorant of even basic lotr lore concepts

That Eagle excuse is getting old. Sauron is a HUGE EYE that can see quite far, those Eagels would have been noticed. Sauron also has archers and dragons that would have shot them down before they came close to Mount Doom and the only reason they were able to come there in the final battle was because of the element of surprise and what these guys are talking about is that they should have just gone to the Mount Doom like everyone would just let them.

@coryindahus7319

8 жыл бұрын

ok sauron doesnt have dragons those are fell beasts an ancient species

@zvonimirtomac7896

8 жыл бұрын

sanik da hejg hog​ I honestly couldn't care less what they are exactly. They resemble dragons so I kept calling them dragons. But that is completely besides the point. It doesn't matter what they are, they are still a factor why eagle's aren't as useful as everyone thinks.

@coryindahus7319

8 жыл бұрын

+Zvonimir Tomac xD i understand i called em dragons 2 it was just a joke ☺

@ryanhowe1135

7 жыл бұрын

good point

@Nibelungenherr1876

7 жыл бұрын

Umm, you do realize that the eye of the Sauron is a metaphor in the books, not a literal huge eyeball?

People who bring up the eagle thing... I'm convinced they haven't read the books, or willfully misinterpret it. It always amazes me people STILL think it's a plot hole.

@lEnaril

8 жыл бұрын

+Lee K All it takes is one sentence. One sentence that would explain why Eagles do what they do for the people who don't care for books. One sentence and no one would bitch about it. We know how Eagles work because we read the books but other peoples see it as a plot hole and they are kinda right.

@KingsizeKini

8 жыл бұрын

+lEnaril They basically did explain that "Right now, there are 10,000 orcs between Frodo and Mount Doom." 10,000 orcs with bow & arrows and at some point the eagles must land and then they are dead. Not to mention, the flying creatures of the Nazgul.

@miniman649

8 жыл бұрын

+Lee K yes, but the movie should also explain that. If a movie fails to make logical sense and remove plotholes without the aid of a book or information source from another media, then the movie fails on the most basic level.

@MasterBombadillo

8 жыл бұрын

+Lee K Sorry, but this can be said about the books as well. One of the few plotholes Tolkien left were the Eagles in LotR - in The Hobbit it was explained of course, but not in a way that could cover situation of LotR. It should've been explained at the Council of Elrond. After all, they knew Bilbo's story there, and Gandalf's escape from Orthanc had been told there too, so the Eagles were fresh in mind. They discussed the Bombadil option too, which makes it even more glaring: even if it was explained elsewhere (which it wasn't), it would leave a lesser plothole there. There are theories of course, but not much more. Of course, with the ease of calling the Eagles by talking to moths made the whole problem worse. That and the fact that the books don't matter when talking about the films, as stated by others.

@KingsizeKini

8 жыл бұрын

***** It isn't a plothole. Eagles aren't invincible. What good do 20 Eagles with a few people on them do, when they eventually have to land? Then they are all dead and the enemy has the ring. It's just simple logic.

I'm gonna go out on a limb with No.11 and say the reason they didn't help him was that the bridge was weakened after the balrog broke through it, meaning the weight of a second person could cause the rest of it to collapse. The ranger, knowing this, stopped Frodo from getting himself killed trying to rescue Gandalf.

@eddthehead123

9 жыл бұрын

Tanya Sapien And the fact that the goblins where still shooting arrows at the group. So if one had run over to help Gandalf up, then they would have gotten killed themselves.

@TanyaSapienVintage

9 жыл бұрын

as ew then why were the morons just standing there for a full ten seconds? That's more than long enough for a skill marksman to loose an arrow.

@eddthehead123

9 жыл бұрын

The only time Goblins and Skilled Marskmen should be in the same sentence is when you say 'a Goblin was killed by a skilled marksmen'. They where safe to a certain degree where they where, since the goblin bows couldn't hit them with any degree of accuracy, but if they went to go help Gandalf, it would put them a fair bit closer to the goblins, and dramatically increase their chance of getting shot.

@quinntaylor-poole4283

9 жыл бұрын

Tanya Sapien I hate to be the annoying LOTR superfan, but Boromir holds Frodo back, not Aragorn

@TanyaSapienVintage

9 жыл бұрын

Quinn Taylor-Poole NEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRD honestly I could never keep track of those two characters, it's a problem I've had in a lot of movies, like in "The Departed" I couldn't for the life of me tell the protagonist from the antagonist because their voices and faces seemed exactly the same to me.

#11 they couldn't get Gandalf because when he struck his staff yelling "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!" the bridge was cursed from his magic so even if the Balrog did cross the bridge he would be cursed and probably die. So they held Frodo back because they didn't want him to be cursed and / or being shot by orcs

The use of 'I will always love you' when Sam picks up frodo was comedy gold.

Another problem: Why did Aragorn let the green dead people go at that time? Should have kept them longer and fight at the gates.

@TysonRex37

9 жыл бұрын

They could have just fucked off if he didn't.

@MelodyMelloLily

9 жыл бұрын

Not if they wanted to be set free.

@planescaped

9 жыл бұрын

"Let's kill his friends and loved ones until he remembers his part of the bargain." Aragorn didn't actually control them, he just had something they wanted.

@azh698

9 жыл бұрын

In the book they don't even make it to minas tirith. Aragorn frees them after they take the southern port from the pirates and he brings the rest of the dunedain (rangers) along with Eladan &Elrohir who were Arwen's brothers

@planescaped

9 жыл бұрын

That sounds way cooler and better honestly. I found the ghost army to be immensely underwhelming and unsatisfying even when I first saw the movie in theaters. Shame that they didn't have the notion(or support) to make Return of the King a two part movie. While The Hobbit most definitely shouldn't be dragged out as much as it has been, LoTR probably should have been.

forget the eagles. the dumbest lord of the rings moment is in the first film, when elrond allows isildur to take the ring away. their they are, in the volcano and Elrond pretty much lets him walk off with it, he doesn't try and take it or even kick Isildur into the volcano. think about it, if he managed to get away from the collapse of mordor then he's in the clear, no witnesses and the world is now safe from sauron. that is the dumbest moment in all the films, not Arwens life tied to the ring and not the eagles.

@Xarfax321

10 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I wondered about that too. Its not like elves are not allowed to fire arrows into corrupt humans. They're not star wars-characters. Of course, then he might have triggered a war between human and elves ("Hey, he went with Isildur into the mountain and came out alone?"), but at least Sauron would be destroyed. A little scratch between humans and elves would not be so bad as Sauron returning. Another thing I have thought about in the first movie: Galadriels voice tells us that "History became a legend, legend became a myth". That would imply that people started to believe there were no ring of Sauron. But Elrond is still alive! He knew about the rings power, he knew about its danger. He was there! Why on earth had he not tried to destroy it earlier? Even if he did not destroy Isildur back in the day, he could have tried to send someone to steal it, or when Isildur was dead, he could have tried to send a search party to find the ring. My point is that with Elronds firsthand experience of the ring, shouldn't he have tried to do SOMETHING? That might have prevented a war that would happen many years later? Or at least warn people about a ring that is still out there somewhere?

@jamesb.8940

10 жыл бұрын

Xarfax321 "But Elrond is still alive! He knew about the rings power, he knew about its danger. He was there! Why on earth had he not tried to destroy it earlier?" ## He had no idea, until very late before the War of the Ring, that it still existed - as the book explains, in detail. He knew Isildur took it, and he knew that Isildur was slain with almost all his men while marching North to Arnor to take up the High Kingship; but he had no information about the Ring. Only three men of those with Isildur survived; which is how Elrond, & Isildur's wife and youngest son (and successor) knew what had happened. There were two years between the passing of Sauron and the death of Isildur - and for all Elrond knew, Isildur might have returned to Mordor and destroyed the Ring. In addition, Isildur's body was never found. At most, there would be the account, by Isildur, of the taking of the Ring from Sauron's hand, which Isildur had written shortly before leaving Gondor & going North. Gandalf - and probably Saruman - read this account many years later, which is why it is present in the book. In 2951, at the last meeting of the White Council, Saruman - who was the most learned in all that related to the Rings of Power - suggested that the Ring had been washed down the River Anduin (where Isildur was killed), and into the Great Sea. He said "There let it lie, until the End [of Middle Earth]". And because Saruman said that, his advice was taken. Gandalf had guessed in 2941, the year of the events of "The Hobbit" when Bilbo found the Ring - but did not know, that the Ring might have been found. He did not press the subject in 2951 - which he later regretted not doing, as he said. So although the Ring had been found, none of the Wise present at the Council in 2951 knew that. So they let matters rest. And things stayed like that until Bilbo's birthday in 3001, when it became clear to Gandalf that something was up with Bilbo's Ring. Gandalf did not identify it for sure until 3018. The book goes into all this in great detail - the film summarises it, leaving out a lot.

@ceruleanwalker1069

10 жыл бұрын

it doesn't matter if the book explains why, as I am referring to the movie alone. I'm just remarking that elrond seems to know how dangerous the ring is and he just lets him walk away with it without so much as a fight. I don't care if the book explains it well, I care that the film fails to explain it.

They needed to devote more time to Denethor's relationship with Pippin. In the book, they spent a lot of time with them together, and it was one of the more important roles that Pippin had. Focusing on their relationship more instead of needless hammy freakouts would have done a lot more for Denthor and Pippin's characters.

Sauromon's death scene was so so fucking cool! why would they cut it from the film?

@KryssLaBryn

9 жыл бұрын

***** It was even worse when one was expecting the scourging of the Shire and then don't even get his death scene. The Scourging of the Shire was awesome. I know it would have added close to another hour to the movie (maaaybe one could trim it down to half an hour) and it was already really long, but damn, it would have been cool to see the hobbits being all badass with their new fighting skills without any other races around to help them out. Maybe some day they'll film it as a small extra on something. The Hobbiton set is still more or less there, even if Christopher Lee isn't anymore. :( Pretty sure they can get around that if needed, though.

@SovereignStatesman

9 жыл бұрын

***** Because it was STUPID. Also Saruman LOST the Palantir, which is how Sauron thought that Aragorn had the Ring--- which flew right over PJ's head in the movie. For some reason, Sauron would empty his entire country to crush some little dweeb with a sword and about 300 guys.

@ForeverDegenerate

8 жыл бұрын

+Bhaskar Singh Tomar They cut it for two reasons, one of which Doug either didn't know about or didn't mention. The first was, as Doug mentioned, for length of movie purposes. The second was that it was originally supposed to be at the end of The Two Towers and they felt that killed how powerful the ending of The Two Towers is as it is now so they left it. Then they tried to use it in Return of The King, but it never quite fit. Now here's where Doug's information fails (I've seen the making of on the DVDs/Blu-Rays way too many times and they mention it there). They didn't have time to rework that scene where they wanted it so they left it. They tried to re-work it as a beginning, but it never felt right and they were strapped for time as it was as they shot the movie up to the absolute deadline so completely re-doing that scene was out of the question. After the movie came out and they had time to go back and re-write the scene properly for the Extended Cut, they did so and even had the actors come back out to shoot the new, tweaked footage. So unlike what Doug says, they did NOT have the footage cut and ready to go. They had two versions of it cut: one that worked better as an ending rather than a beginning and one that half-assed into trying to be a beginning. So yeah, if they had the time to re-write, re-shoot, and re-edit the scene, they would have, but they didn't and finishing the rest of the movie was far more important than trying to make a scene work that they were having so many problems with in the first place. As the Assistant Editor said on the DVD/Blu-Ray, "If you're having THAT many problems editing a scene, then it's probably not the right scene for the movie." Also, it's more than just instituting the scene. They literally went back and completely re-edited all 3 movies for the Extended Cut. That's right, to get all those scenes back in the movies and the new scenes they shot because they finally had time to do so after the Theatrical Release, Peter Jackson and his Editors (remember each movie had a different Editor) went back through ALL of the shot footage AGAIN and chose different takes here and there and, in some cases, cut some scenes together slightly differently to tweak the story itself so that the new stuff and re-instituted stuff made sense.

@aurabender150

8 жыл бұрын

+Bhaskar Singh Tomar Because if I saw what is honestly the best villain in the trilogy get killed off in the first 10 minutes of the last film, I would actually PREFER they didn't show that scene.

While it is a bit ridiculous just how perfect Legolas is you have to remember that he is 2938 years old when the third film takes place. Given elven life cycles this means he's had at the very least 2838 years of combat experience. That much practice will make you an expert at anything.

@MirrorscapeDC

7 жыл бұрын

Also, we never got Glorfindel. They had to put that awesomeness somewhere.

I'm not a LotR expert, but I thought the Eagles can only be summoned when or if Gandalf finds some sort of specific "magic" butterfly or something. Because I remember that he would whisper to a butterfly, have it fly away, (Like when he was imprisoned on Saruman's tower.) And the eagles would come. This also happened in The Hobbit. I assumed that the eagles were a limited resource and once summoned cannot be used for long periods of time. Limited by possibly the amount of "magic" butterflies available, the magic power required to command or manipulate them, or whatever kind of weird explanation of such.

@LilithWolfheart

10 жыл бұрын

Having read the Silmarillion, I believe it was stated in there that the Eagles don't like getting involved unless shit REALLY hits the fan, only used to getting involved specifically when it's a Maia or the Valar's business.

@Eliezar18

10 жыл бұрын

The butterfly (moth, actually) was a Jackson-ism. He added it to the story as an unnecessary explanation for why the eagles kept showing up. I'm sure that we will see it again in the next Hobbit movie seven months from now. It is a way to keep the eagles as non-speaking characters, and to keep their motivations enigmatic. It is also not part of the book lore.

@Kartissa

10 жыл бұрын

Actually, the butterfly at Isengard was a messenger from Radagast the Brown to discover why Gandalf hadn't got in touch as he'd said he would. After receiving word of Gandalf's plight, Radagast contacted the eagles to rescue him, because he knew the King of the eagles owed Gandalf a debt.

@400KrispyKremes

10 жыл бұрын

Another point to all this that always annoys me is the implication so many people make that "the story would have been over in ten seconds if the eagles just flew Frodo to Mt Doom". If they would have tried that the Nazgûl would have torn them to shreds before they even reached the Black Gate. Sure they could fly there after the Nazgûl were dead/defeated, and the remaining armies of Mordor were scattered, but the Eagles even said they were afraid that "Humans", namely farmers and the like, would shoot them down if they went into their territory. So what would the full force of Modor which included not just the Nazgûl riders, but thousands of goblin archers, have done to a few Eagles who were carrying a person who posses the ring? The orcs would have filled the skies with arrows and the Nazgûl would have cut them down in mere moments.

@Raptorman0205

10 жыл бұрын

So um…don't you think that stopping the nigh unstoppable source of ultimate evil is a DAMN good reason to call them? It's doubtful something as powerful as Sauron would EVER come again…so use the damn eagles.

At least in Desolation of Smaug, they did the unthinkable....they made Legolas BLEED!

@scAlpha7

10 жыл бұрын

That was actually one of the funniest scenes in the movie... They way he looked at the blood and the Anger or was it Rage .. and then He took off for Dol Guldur Where he will probably fight off everyone and free Gandalf. And since Jackson has gone that far why not having Legoals firing the Black Arrow to kill Smaug?? Still it was an awesome scene nonetheless

@RedRookChannel

10 жыл бұрын

Wait, doesn't he bleed like once a month?

@Psychoclaw

10 жыл бұрын

I was SO HAPPY when that happened.

@scAlpha7

10 жыл бұрын

Red Rook That's not really funny. After all he is a great character

@Psychoclaw

10 жыл бұрын

I didn't say he wasn't a great character. However, I found 'The Hobbit' portrayal of him laughably over-the-top, so I was satisfied that he was brought down a notch.

Sorry but the eagle argument is just bad. 1) The eagles could be shot down by the thousands of orcs behind the black gate. 2) Who's to say the ring couldn't bend the eagle to just deliver the ring right to it's master?

@LizardMotionFilms

8 жыл бұрын

+AICabal Frodo could carry the ring with him on the back or claws of a eagle. Then they could very high and at a time that there is less orcs around. I doubt they could notice in time unless if Sauron himself saw them.

@LizardMotionFilms

8 жыл бұрын

+Lizard-Motion Films And they could hide behind mt doom to evade sauron's gaze.

@ZeusNoTenshi

8 жыл бұрын

+AICabal I mean let's be honest its not like the orcs have anti-aircraft guns. Having thousands upon thousands of orcs armed with bows and arrows would still be useless if the eagle just fly above the effective range of their weapons.

@kriadydragon

8 жыл бұрын

+ZeusNoTenshi One word - Nazgul. Sauron's forces weren't just on the ground. You get enough Nazgul and their mounts swarming the eagles and one manages to knock Frodo off, it's game over.

@jameson32

8 жыл бұрын

+AICabal You can't shoot a bow or ballista even close to the height at which an Eagle flies. And if the eagles were vulnerable to Sauron, we would have seen at least one evil eagle wouldn't we?

Saruman isn't a Human villain, which the Nostalgia Critic calls him here. He's actually the same race as Sauron, Gandalf, Radagast, and the Balrog (they're all Maiar, basically demigods). And 'The Two Towers' and 'Return of the King' movies SUCKED. 'The Fellowship of the Ring' was an excellent fantasy film, though.

@fjalartandri00

10 жыл бұрын

you forgot the two blue wizards

@fjalartandri00

10 жыл бұрын

Hannah Small and the action scenes, the acting, the story. i could go on but it would take to long

@IgnatzKolisch

10 жыл бұрын

Fjalar Tandri I didn't forget them. I could just make a gigantic list naming all the known Maiar and Valar. There are tons. Tom Bombadil, Goldberry, the list goes on.

@Drengade

10 жыл бұрын

And you never actually see the blue wizards in any of the films/books (as far as i know, they may be in one of the more obscure books though).

@cookiethethird572

10 жыл бұрын

IgnatzKolisch Actually, there aren't sooo many Valars... Just the 14, if you don't count Melkor. Of course, there are the Ainur, but they don't count as Valars, I think...

Um...number 11? Really? They're too far away to run and grab him; they'd be halfway there by the time he fell.

"Legolas, you're too good to be true." Well aren't ALL of the Elves in these movies too good to be true? They have flawless beauty, hair that would put Loreal to shame, don't age, can fight with their eyes closed, and almost never make mistakes. Their like the Mary Sues of the fantasy world. The only elf that seems to have any issues is Thranduil,

@CascadianRanger

10 жыл бұрын

Their main issue is that they are very susceptible to corruption. Its why they couldnt take the ring to mordor. There is no way they could resist its might and power. Dwarfs would use it for greed, and humans are to imperfect and would think they could control it. Its why a Frodo and bilbo could resist it so long

@jamesb.8940

10 жыл бұрын

They make a lot of mistakes - and worse - in the Silmarillion. Mary Sues ? Not at all LOL - they are capable of some very serious character flaws that make all the characteristics that make them seem to be MSes a danger to themselves and others. By the War of the Ring, they've learned - the hard way - what not to do. As a result, they can seem rather more passive than they are. There were no Elves at Helm's Deep but Legolas - despite the film.

@CascadianRanger

10 жыл бұрын

James M Being perfect was there greatest flaw

@katywiggins581

10 жыл бұрын

James M YAY someone else who's read the Silmarillion!!!!! We get the eagles. Yeah they do an awful lot of daughter abducting, father/son killing, backstabbing, Morgoth (forget Sauron, HE'S a pussy) conspiring. There's kind of a reason by the time LOTR comes around they're done and leaving.

@DONUTSREVENGED

10 жыл бұрын

Katy Wiggins However they did learn in time for the Second age that even though there were Humans and Dwarves fighting on both sides of the Last Alliance there was not a single Elf among the ranks of Sauron's forces.

First Gandalf is an Ishtar, a Maia, or simply said a demigod. He can not die. I'm not speaking about immortality, I'm saying that Ilûvatar aka Eru never intended Mythrandir to die. It is not in the cosmological script, so to speak. At least Aragorn, who lived among Noldorin in Imladris must have known this when Gandalf was about to fall down the chasm. As much as Legolas must have been aware it as well. Which is why it was a "fake out" all along, everyone who had read the Silmarilion knew it from the get go. Arwen can "give up" immortality, since she is part human. Her parents are Elrond and the daughter of Galadriel, whos name I can't remember right now. Which is why you might ask yourself from where the human blood is coming. It's coming from Elronds Parents Earendil and Elwing, both are part human, part elf and even part Maia. Which is why Elrond can see the future and why he was given the elven ring Vilya. Long story short his brother Erlos chose a mortal life back in the first age(approximatelly 6000 years ago) and was the founding king of Nûmenor. Elrond could choose to become mortal as well, if he wanted to. That said Arwen would still live for centuries as a mortal nonetheless, but don't worry Aragorn is going to last a couple of cernturies as well, since he is a Dun-Adan, a human of the west, descented from Nûmenor. Yep, if you look back far enough then you realize that Aragorn and Arwen are related. In short Aragorn is 82 years old when he finds Frodo. The simple reason they don't kill Saruman by the way is, as you might have expected, they can't, for the same reason Gandalf can not die. Saruman belongs to the Ishtari, he can not die or be actually killed for that matter. Eru would send him back. Last, but not least. The giant eagles are the creatures of the Vala Manwe(the god of the Sky, poets, etc.) and they supposedly arrive as the saving cavalry, because the Valar are not supposed to interfer with mortal affairs - even though Sauron is a Maia himself - the story is spposed to "play out" without them taking part. All this really should open your eyes on who's really pulling the strings. The majority of what transpires on Arda is staged and things will unfold has they have been intended to do since before the cosmos was created. In essence it is a nose dive. The world is getting worse all the time, with short upswings in between.

@Donnerbalken28

9 жыл бұрын

It's not about that "plot holes". It's because its never explained in the movies.

@Ryan_Winter

9 жыл бұрын

***** Well, that certainly would make the movies a lot longer. I guess the original cause/problem is that the books aren't that awesome after all, even though the mythos Tolkien created is fabulous, the plot and the meta plot are both crap and nothing will make up for that.

@EthicalCrusader

9 жыл бұрын

The bad part of about this is that it IS explained in the books, and not the movies. I'm sure they could've found a way to make it work without extended to movie time to 5+ hours.

@simonpurist4499

9 жыл бұрын

Oreo Milkshake Worse: it's CONTRADICTED by the films.

@Skabanis

9 жыл бұрын

Actually doesn't matter if she had human blood at all! Luthien who is a Sindar elf and Mair blood become mortal when she couple with Beren! The whole Arowen and Elrond parts also the Haldir at helms deeps was a joke!

Those endings of LOTR are perfect. I wouldn't have it any other way.

@KnightsaysNi

9 жыл бұрын

Yes, but the whole "Clue" segment was still pretty amusing. XD

@denisaN86

9 жыл бұрын

No, I think it was sad that Frodo left the Shire. It ruined the ending, he looked defeated. In the book he stayed in the Shire. I wish they made a happier ending for him.

@Evan_Schaefering

9 жыл бұрын

Denisa Netea No he didn't. He left for the Undying Lands in the movies and the books because he was a ring bearer. Sam even joins hims years later after running the Shire for a time.

@kittykat123425

9 жыл бұрын

But they forgot the battle of the shire

@KnightsaysNi

9 жыл бұрын

The Phantom of The Opera Agree, it's almost like you're inside my mind. ;)

OK so the thing about the birds: You wouldn't get it without reading the Silmarillion. They're the eagles of Manwe (Chief valar, AKA god, of the pantheon), whose only home can be the trees of Aule (another god, who created the dwarves-- "The trees of Aule" means "mountains"). One of Manwe's qualities is that coupled with his wife, Varda, queen of the stars, (? if I remember right?), he can see everything in the world. Via, in part, his eagles that are too big for trees. The gods don't really give a crap by this time in history. They tried intervening, back when the elves were young, and that's a great story. Read a damn book. But now the only thing they give a crap about is vanquishing Sauron (who isn't even a huge concern to them compared to what happened before). Sauron was the chief servant of an evil god named Melkor (Sauron isn't a god, he's a lesser race, Maiar if I remember right-- Almost gods but not), who later was called Morgoth (remember the "Balrog of Morgoth", as Gandalf calls it?), and that was really what the gods cared about fighting, back in the day when the elves were young and they intervened in history. By this time in history, the gods do little to nothing to entangle themselves with mortals, and have never really interacted with men (outside of a few rare instances, and the founding of Numenor), only elves. It's amazing that they end up doing as much as they do- Arwen is able to stir their protection to save Frodo, they send Gandalf back from the dead (although Gandalf and the other Seven wizards are a special race, not men or elves, as it turns out they were sent after Morgoth was vanquished, by Illuvatar, higher creator even than Manwe, himself, to help vanquish Sauron-- STILL, as evidenced by Saruman's death, they can't just ressurect themselves, no one can leave the halls of... whatshisname, Manos, Mandos?), and THEN they even send the eagles a few times. In short, no one USES the eagles of Manwe. It's a miracle they decide to show up AT ALL. Anyone who wants to bitch about the eagles go read the Silmarillion. Go read it anyways, even if you don't want to bitch. And pray they don't make a movie out of it. ^^^Such a fuckin dork. But I thought Nostalgia Critic was one of my own! I can't believe he hasn't read the Silmarillion.

@greenmann1217

10 жыл бұрын

The Wizards are Maiar, just like Sauron

@katywiggins581

10 жыл бұрын

Green Mann No (lol, NERD fight), the Maiar (yay I remembered the right name) were all there at creation and some came like the rest of the Ainur (I remember it because it looks like anus o.o) and some didn't. Shelob, the Balrogs, Melian, Sauron, the sea god's wife (right?), other good ones I can't remember.... I know Tulkas came late to the "god party" but he was one of the Valar. The Maiar as far as I remember just all came at once. Or rather, during one period of time. There didn't suddenly spawn NEW Maiar after the fall of Angkabal? Angkabaz? After Morgoth was defeated. That is WAAAAAAAAAY into the Silmarillion's history, in the middle/end of the Quenta Silmarillion. The first books are where Maiar and Ainur are established. The wizards' origins were unknown unless you read an appendix of the Silmarillion (I forget which one). In the appendix, it's revealed that Gandalf carried one of the lost rings of power (forget its name), and why he made his way to Valinor, in an effort to return to the void of Illuvatar which he tasted but was stirred from after his battle with the Balrog. Not really relevant, just trying to point out where to find it ; ) It goes into where the seven went, since we only really encounter 2 in detail, 3 total. It's ambiguous as to how exactly they came, calling them LIKE the Maiar, but closer to mortal, and sent by Illuvatar SPECIFICALLY to defeat Sauron (Why the Valar couldn't defeat Sauron is gone into many times but is kind of a matter open to interpretation). The Maiar just seem to pop up of their own accord then stop appearing (Obv nothing happens without Iluvatar's design, but.. you get it).

@greenmann1217

10 жыл бұрын

Hmm I was almost positive in the appendix it's stated that the wizards were Maiar and how the 2 blue traveled far east etc

@greenmann1217

10 жыл бұрын

The Five Wizards, also known as Istari, were five Maiar spirits in human form sent to aid the Free Peoples of Middle-earth against the threat of Sauron. - excerpt from lotrowiki

@katywiggins581

10 жыл бұрын

lotro is a video game, BTW (lotr on its own would mean the books?). lotrowiki is probably a game wiki? However much that game sucks, the name (Astari) sounds familiar (I was sure it was 7?). But that's also kinda what I said, like Maiar, but closer to mortals-- Maiar in human form isn't the same thing as say for instance Melian, who could change forms and was truly a Maiar to compare with the Valar. The wizards are an intermediary, where the Maiar are pretty clearly the oldest of physical beings. But you should read the damn thing before you google every last reference you hear.

Reason why they couldn't have used the Birds: There wouldn't be an epic story to tell.

@katywiggins581

10 жыл бұрын

No, the reason for the birds is they are an extension of a god who gives about 1/4 of a shit about what goes on in the world by this point. See my explanation up there ^^^

@khfanboy666

10 жыл бұрын

Katy Wiggins So what? The critic was just looking at LOTR as a film series. If the story couldn't explain all this stuff in it's running time then they should've changed it. Adaptations need to stand on their own else there was no point in adapting it in the first place. His problem with Legolas is similar. In the context of the movie the elves are portrayed as being so amazing that it damages the credibility of the scenes around it. Why should he be worried for them if all the characters are so badass and never really suffer damage due to it? Explaining it away with stuff from the books means nothing because it wasn't explained in the story he was watching..

@maddygullotta2551

10 жыл бұрын

Katy Wiggins Well somebody doesn't understand a joke.

@katywiggins581

10 жыл бұрын

Madi Samuels I didn't think it was a joke, lots of people really think they made it up for the movie ; ) khfanboy666 I agree that the movies should have had that as exposition, they did a generally OK job with everything else they had to explain.... But it isn't made up, so that's my problem. They're only briefly gone over in the book and they should have seen the giant plot hole in the movies and added 5 seconds of Gandalf talking about them. FFS, they have like 45 minutes of uneccessary scenes in the directors cut, but they couldn't add THAT.

@CatMaster90001

10 жыл бұрын

Those were my thoughts exactly when I first saw this video! :D

Nostalgia Critic does bring up some legitimate points with these movies. I agree with 10-7 and 2; bazillion endings, Gimli's idiot moments, Legolas's perfect moments, the close ups, and Saruman's ending. The rest, however, I disagree with. 11. In the scene where Gandalf died, Gandalf was shot in regular time and the fellowship was in slow motion. Just based on the time that Gandalf was on that ledge, the fellowship would never have been able to reach him. Even if they could they would have been shot by the Goblins once they got there. 6. I can understand why he did not like Denethor. The character is more complex in the books, and I would argue from the extended editions that he went insane after he learned Boromir was dead. However, the theatrical versions did not do him justice, but I could endure it. 5. No one dying was not the movie makers faults. This movie was an adaptation from the books. This adaptation was the most faithful I had ever seen Hollywood do when representing a fictional work. Blame Tolkien if you want, not the movie makers. 4. Based on my observations, deductions, and speculations, Arwen gave up her immortality. Sauron must have learned this somehow and cursed her with some sort of disease. He was never able to track down Aragorn, but he seemed to know enough about him to learn who he was in love with. This is especially possible if one considers that in the books, they had been engaged for FIFTY YEARS! 3. There was no gayness between Sam and Frodo. One needs to remember that Tolkien was a Christian. One should consider how the Biblical characters David and Johnathan had friendship and love that, as the Bible says, "was more wonderful than the love of women." I believe that this was the same kind of love that Tolkien and hence the movie makers were going for. 1. Frodo was able to withstand the power of the ring because he had never possessed or desired power. If Isildur fell to the ring in a twenty minute hike, the eagles would have fallen to its power in a second. All in all, the majority of these reasons are far to nit-picky and, in my opinion, scraping from the bottom of the barrel. 5/11 legitimate dumb things is not a great score.

I'm kind of glad Denethor is so over the top, crazy, angry, paranoid, because it allows me to laugh hysterically when he jumps off of Minas Tirith in a screaming blaze. I mean, if I really felt all that much sympathy at his condition, his death would have been really horrifying. But as we only see him at his bat-shit insane final days, I really just want to clap when he dies. (Because no one hurts poor Faramir and gets away with it, dammit.)

because it's only the weight of the whip string that first knocked him off the bridge, the balrog's full weight is just about to fall onto Gandalf's ankle as the rope nears getting taught. there's no saving him. and the bridge is too fragile to walk on anymore.

@greece2011and12

10 жыл бұрын

Agree, but the rest of the fellowship don't know this thing. They should still try to help

Wait, they didn't show Saruman's death in the normal edition of the movies?

@AzureRoxe

10 жыл бұрын

Nope. A lot of the "goofier" scenes with Gimli were also cut in the normal edition.

@isamisset4944

10 жыл бұрын

It actually is, but it is in the extended edition.

@MrMerkzz

10 жыл бұрын

Yeah one was in the second film where he is sitting on the dead uruk-Hai and the axe is in the Uruk-Hai's head. Yeah that was pretty goofie

@Nickiscool180

10 жыл бұрын

GuyWhoGames How much did they leave out, I own the extended pac and always saw them like that never see it out side of the extended dvds.

@MrMerkzz

10 жыл бұрын

Im sure they said they left out just over 45 or 50 minutes of extra movie they didnt put in.

I love the stupid gibberish singing that NC did for the transitions. haha

I always assumed they didn't run to rescue Gandalf because the bridge was broken by the Balrog and their weight could have caused it to break under them, therefore ending their mission (upon which the world depends.) Sam and Frodo are supposed to love each other. Love isn't just romantic love. There is love between parents and their children, siblings and friends (esp. if they become like brothers.) I loved that they showed non-romantic love/affection in this film because films rarely show it. My biggest disappointment was that they cut out my favourite part of the book, when the Hobbits returned to a troubled Hobbiton, discovering that Saruman and Wormtongue (having been exiled) have taken control over it. It was really gripping to read about these now-warrrior Hobbits leading a battle against Orc invaders and Frodo facing Saruman (without Gandalf, Aragorn or anyone else to help him.) Afterwards they have to rebuild and the Shire greens again. It was beautiful. Tolkien had lived through two world wars (and fought in one,) and understood how war affects everyone. England was heavily bombed during WW2, but they rebuilt. The book is about human spirit persevering, even past the darkest of times. When I saw them return home and everyone was smiling, unaffected, oblivious, I was very disappointed.

11:46 *STARING, Homeless Magneto!..* I can never forget that one anymore.. damn you honest trailers..

I get some of your points. Really, I do. I even agree with some of them. But some of it just pure bullshit. Some of this is just your lack of knowledge and understanding. OF COURSE Arwen's fate is tied to the ring - she's decided to stay in Middle Earth. And from Elrond's point of view she IS dying. She chose a mortal life, when she could have stayed immortal. They also can't USE the eagles. They aren't "normal animals", they're their own people with their own minds and their own place in the world. Like the ents. Their "army" survived their battle mostly intact, why didn't they join the other races in the rest of the war? The eagle can help people (like Gandalf) as a favour, but they can't be ordered around like a trained horse. Try to see it from their perspective. It's like if someone said "Hey, humans have longer legs than hobbits, let's have someone carry them on their back all the way!" Let's also remember that the eagles, while mighty and strong for sure, cannot simply carry whatever weight they want without tireing. About the "gayness": You're reading to much into it. That's really all it is. This is a portrail of a very close friendship in which the persons involved don't feel the need to distance themselves not to be misinterpereted. And it's not just lotr, many movie friendships are overanalyzed because of the riddiculous need to indentify a gay element. How Gandalf got from the root of the mountain to it's peak is explained in the book, but not the movie. The others also had no idea there was water below, didn't know the full extent of his powers (which considering the outcome can't have been that much grater than the Balrog's) and most certainly did not anticipate his resurrection as that was unprecedented and could not be achieved with the power of all beings in Middle Earth combined. Another thing: sure the elves are good fighters, but they WERE still severly outnumbered in the battle of Helms Deep. Before the elves it was 300 vs 10 000. I don't know how many elves there were, but I'm pretty sure there weren't so many as to make the fight as one sided as you seem to think. Sure, if everyone was Legolas(and I agree he is a tiny bit over the top), but come on. Not everyone in a single race has the same fighting skills. As a side note, Saruman is not actually a human villain - he is a villain with a human appearance.

@Happimations

10 жыл бұрын

You're directing this to Doug Walker (Nostalgia Critic) but you're just wasting your time since this isn't his channel.

@PhoenixofEru

10 жыл бұрын

Happimations... Ooops! See this is what happens when I comment after midnight... :P

@katkiss17

10 жыл бұрын

the only elf in helms deep is legolas the only reason halidr and the rest of the elves from lothlorien is beacuse of peter jackson they were never there in the book

@PhoenixofEru

10 жыл бұрын

katrina kissinger True, but I decided to skip that since it IS an adaptation and all. The subject here wasn't really the changes.

@jamesb.8940

10 жыл бұрын

About the Eagles - they are the birds of Manwe Sulimo (see the Silmarillion), and subject only to him. Gandalf (like Saruman) is only a Maia - not Lord of the Valar, as Manwe is. So the Eagles are not subject to anyone in Middle Earth, as already pointed out: "They also can't USE the eagles. They aren't "normal animals", they're their own people with their own minds and their own place in the world" Exactly. They are not pack-animals with wings.

The fake elvish music in the background freaking MADE this for me!

I've always been underwhelmed by Gimli and after reading the book which he was an amazing character with more to do than Legolas, I am even more frustrated. He's like a not as bad Jar Jar.

Actually, the thing about the eagles is that in the books somewhere, Tolkien says that no creature can fly over Mordor's borders. I don't know the details, but that's why. They couldn't fly over Mount Doom because of that. I believe it has to do with Sauron's magic.

That was a fucking perfect Gollum impression

I love the Lord of the Rings, but I feel like Tolkien was WAY too attached to his heroes. Even most of the battles are totally improbable. In reality, most of the battles would have been won by Mordor or Isengard, and most of the heroes of middle earth should have been slaughtered by large numbers of orcs. I also find it ridiculous to assume that elves are perfect beings capable of killing anything and everything. There really aren't many of them left, and if you think 1,000 elves can take on the combined forces of Sauron and Saruman then I don't know what you are thinking.

@Slaggedfire

9 жыл бұрын

Not everyone wants to see all the lead characters die like in GoT.

@Slaggedfire

9 жыл бұрын

BattleFrontStudios It's a fantasy series but if you wish to know the difference the GoT series are a dark realistic fantasy series. Lord of the rings/the hobbit/the simerillion are a normal fantasy series balancing dark story telling with light hearted fun. :) so you can't really expect realism period from my fantasy series.

@Slaggedfire

9 жыл бұрын

BattleFrontStudios Sometimes things shouldn't be realistic in a realistic fashion that ring could be melted down in any old volcano or even a smelting forge. In a real life fashion the eagles could soar above the clouds and the arrows would never reach them as they drop the ring into the fiery pits story would be over in like 10 minutes. Gotta think to yourself would the story be as good if it was realistic.

@Slaggedfire

9 жыл бұрын

***** they would not get shot down the arrows would never reach that high into the sky.

@Slaggedfire

9 жыл бұрын

***** They are eagles and they can soar above the clouds since they are giant MYSTIC eagles. Also their are more eagles than ringwraiths like 10 eagles could hold off all the flying things and like 3 could just chuck the ring into the fiery pits.

Regarding the Gandalf death, here are my assumptions: 1. Gandalf already explicitly said that the fellowship was no match for the balrog, so at this point, everyone was already told by Gandalf to run away as fast as they can. Based on this, it was likely that most of the fellowship already ran far ahead by the time Gandalf was clinging to the ledge. 2. Of the people still relatively nearby to Gandalf at the time immediately before Gandalf was whipped, they thought Gandalf had already defeated the balrog. It took a split second for the balrog to whip Gandalf and make him cling to the ledge. It's no surprise that Frodo and company reacted in that split second with shock instead of running back to help immediately. 3. While Gandalf did have time to utter "Fly you fools", this could not have taken more than a couple of seconds. And while it does show the reaction faces of Frodo and everyone else, this should be taken as a simultaneous event - that is to say, everything within these several shots happened concurrently. And time was also noticeably slowed down for these shots and the shots after for dramatic effect. 4. So when Frodo finally reacted after overcoming the initial shock, it was already too late since Gandalf already lost his grip and was dragged down the fissure. Thus Eddard Stark had to restrain Frodo for fear of being shot by the archers or falling down the fissure while trying to reach Gandalf or even the balrog's whip striking up again.

Legolas in Hobbit part 2 is even more ridiculous lol

@reaganvernon7925

10 жыл бұрын

Really? Legolas is immortal, and prince of the woodland realm. How is it at all ridiculous that the prince of a kingdom is present? BTW, hobbit is only 60 (if memory serves me right) years before LoTR, so he was no doubt there at the time. The only reason he wasn't mentioned in the Hobbit book was because Tolkien came up with the character later for LoTR

I think the part about Denethor would've worked better if they had kept the part from the book that he was being manipulated through the palantir.

The Lord of the Rings films are perfect. These are just nitpicks.

@sorra300-

9 жыл бұрын

never perfect ever.

@rickywilliams1586

9 жыл бұрын

Coffee Ninja A major plot hole like eagles that could have been used to fly over the volcano or dropped them off closer is just a nitpick?

@DrewBert324

9 жыл бұрын

Ricky Williams OKAY. One, orcs have bows, they could shoot the eagles down. two, sauron does still have a lot of power, he could easily kill the eagles. Three, you skeptics say that the eagles should have just flown them to mount doom, but would that have made for a very good book and movie series. I thought not

@rickywilliams1586

9 жыл бұрын

Coffee Ninja Bows that could easily be avoided by simply flying higher. Believe it or not a bow can't go that high up. Even a long can only travel about 400 yards. Even then you have to be skilled with a bow and arrow to hit a target that far. Something the orcs aren't. How can Sauron kill the eagles? Other than mind control I haven't seen him have any physical attack that could kill anything. Please, name one time in the movies that someone died as a direct result from Sauron. Not an influence or strong presence but Sauron as an eye directly killed someone. We're not saying that we want a shorter or bad story. We like the story. We enjoy the characters. We're invested in what's happening. The problem is the fact that it's a major plot hole. The characters want to defeat Sauron as quickly as possible right? Instead of taking eagles and ending it in a few days they take over a year. I thought time was of the essence? Why handicap yourselves? They should have just should have written the eagles out of it.

@DrewBert324

9 жыл бұрын

Ricky Williams A bow can shoot and an arced angle. Belive it or not cause in the book sauron can use stuff like fire and heat to his advantage.

They don't go after gandalf in fear of the bridge collapsing further, and they knew that Gandalf would've wanted them to move on.

Can someone who remembers everything from the books explain Legolas's never-ending supply of arrows? Does he have a magic quiver or something?

@The_SilverMane

10 жыл бұрын

Timing

@Howler452

10 жыл бұрын

My friend who is reading the books says that Legolas actually runs out of arrows at one point.

@MsSphinx91

10 жыл бұрын

***** I see. Maybe if they showed that in the movie a couple of times, it would have taken his "T-Rex" points down a tad.

@dlobom

10 жыл бұрын

***** yes, he refils at Lotlorien, then in Edoras, then in Minas Tirith. He probably doesn't shoot as many arrows in the book.

The eagles dont help because gandalf didnt want to chance a god bird getting corrupted by the ring

@drx8888

10 жыл бұрын

so why couldnt frodo hold it while the bird takes him there? you cant make an excuse for it.

@katkiss17

10 жыл бұрын

Kami's .Apathy the eagles arn't sevents to be used when ever they feel like it they are there own race anyway if they did fly by say rohan man would shoot them down.

@zzmoonz

10 жыл бұрын

The eagles were also fighting up north in the books and films.

@fenster666

10 жыл бұрын

katrina kissinger The eagles that can easily take down those massive flying nazgual and who easily take down a pack of orcs are afraid of men, on of the weakest races in middle earth, and the amount they help Gandal out in the movies don't you think they wouldn't be able to at least give the fellowship a lift to Mordor.

@alixmalone19

10 жыл бұрын

Chris Parkhurst Deus ex Machina. Not good for these (or any) books/movies.

Fun Fact: Orlando Bloom wanted to be Faramir, but Peter Jackson felt that he would better suited for Legolas 👍

and just when you think Legolas couldn't get more stupidly badass, in comes The Hobbit part 3.

@whyareyoureadingmynickname8158

8 жыл бұрын

Let's never talk about that "cool" part again.

@OckhamAsylum

7 жыл бұрын

Jesus Christ, the Hobbit... Legolas was so powerful you'd think he was the protagonist of an FPS. Don't tell you me you can't see the quick time event prompts as he's defying physics and hopping up those stones in mid-air like it's a boss-fight cutscene.

@missx5472

7 жыл бұрын

Rigel Seybert *part 2

@authoralysmarchand6758

7 жыл бұрын

He was fan service for teens and the younger adults. I, um, was one of them.

The only one I had an issue with was 5. The death fakes were written into the books the films are based on. People probably would've complained without them.

They didn't adapt Saruman taking over the shire, imagine how much more people would've bitched if they had.

The way the movies treated Denethor was flat out awful. In the books he was not an asshole or any of that, he didn't favor one son over the other, he didn't send Feyiimir on a suicide mission, and he didn't lose his mind until after he thought both of his sons were dead and the Orc army was almost inside the city.

@SovereignStatesman

9 жыл бұрын

22steve5150 "The way the movies treated Denethor was flat out awful. " Who DIDN'T they treat awful? Denethor just got it the worst. It's what happens when you have babies playing with matches around priceless artworks, i.e. they all get burned , but some worse than others.

"I can carry you!" Chills every time. Maybe a little weepy.

Saruman isn't human, he is a wizard, which are quasi angelic creatures in the guise of old men bound by certain restrictions.

Is anybody else catching on to the lyrics of the song during the counting? 3:16 "Sucky... sucky sucky...."

"Weird Al" Yankovic + Angry Video Game Nerd + too much caffeine = Nostalgia Critic.

Tell Bilbo I never liked hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiim :')

@sandrols7

8 жыл бұрын

+Jesus Krust nooooooooooooooooo!

@jeanneleroux6150

8 жыл бұрын

that's so funny

I never understood why Aragon didn't just ask that ghost army to invade Mordor and kill everything there, then they're oath would be fulfilled and could go free and all that.

@MrCmon113

10 жыл бұрын

The ghost armies strength was more in fear than in arms, soon Sauron's servants would be less intimidated by them. Also I think that the ghosts wouldn't even dare to come close to Sauron. PJ created a plothole here, by letting the ghost army slaughter their way through Pelennor. : |

@ShiddyShad808

10 жыл бұрын

MrCmon113 so I'm guessing in the original story the ghosts weren't indestructible like they were in the movie?

@WunderWaffleman

10 жыл бұрын

Rashad Almomani The ghosts didn't NEED to go along with aragorn, they only did because of that promise. If Aragorn keeps denying it to them and they keep having to do more shit for him, then maybe they'll side with a certain master of deception who may promise them the same ;)

@ShiddyShad808

10 жыл бұрын

WunderWaffleman ya but really though, they slaughtered that huge army attacking the city, they couldn't just help out for another half a day or something and terrorize Mordor?

@WunderWaffleman

10 жыл бұрын

mordor wouldn't really be as easy to be honest, the land is essentially pure evil, and this army of the dead used to worship sauron, so im sure he could manipulate them to his will once again. It's all quite risky to be honest. The thing is, in the book they weren't this unstoppable force really . They were more like the Nazgul, in the sense that their main weapon was fear, they weren't indestructible and couldn't do much physical damage. I see your point though.

I wish the Nostalgia Critic reviewed sequels a bit more and exactly why they suck. He should make a special spin-off for it.

"Oh christ, just propose already!" The imitation was perfect.

One thing that really bothered me at the movies was Aragorn letting Grima go. I mean, even if you buy that nonsense about not spilling more blood, they should at least lock him up. A lot of deaths would be avoided if they did that, cause Grima's advice to Saruman were crucial.

that seacrest bit killed me lol

lmao for you legolas problem wel...wait till Desolation of Smaug lol

Boromir: no no, he's gone Gandalf: bullshit I am, I'm right here HILARIOUS!

Aragorn's face at 17:38 is priceless over the mouth of Sauron. XD

Number 11 I believe the Balrog's whip is still hanging onto him, which means, everyone who would try to pull him back would fall with him in the end.

@ShiroHichigo

10 жыл бұрын

I don't think so, if the massive weight of balrog was still pulling at gandalg's leg due to gratify, he wouldn't even have a second to hold on, he would have been pulled with so much strength his leg could have potentially have torn off if anything/one was pulling him up from the edge

@klauskleber9250

10 жыл бұрын

ShiroHichigo Well I think the whip hasn't reached it maximum extent by that point. Maybe it just caught his leg so he fell of the cliff and when he plunged into the rift the whip finally has stretched to its maximal length.

@ShiroHichigo

10 жыл бұрын

Well if that was an example of what happened then the whip is automatically removed as a threat, allow me to explain if someone was to tie a rope around your wait and then hold onto it whilst driving a really fast car then you'd expect to be pulled from the effect and to get severely injured, but if the rope was several several feet long then you have an X amount of time to break the rope before the rope meets it's maximum length ( again tied between your waist and the other edge being held by the driver) by which time you would be pulled and possibly broken in pieces from the impact of the rope being pulled so if the whip had not "ran it's course" and it needed a few seconds before balrog had fallen enough for it to drag Gandalf down with him straight away then they could have attempted a save. But as the Nostalgia critic points out they are either not bothering or are prevented to do so by the arrows

@Diablon76

10 жыл бұрын

Actually, no it's not. I've watched this video before watching the movies (don't judge!), and since that's what I thought as well, I paid close attention to that. It's not hanging onto him.

with the bread, I saw it as Sam realizing that Gollum was scheming to break them apart.

@Helbore

10 жыл бұрын

Which just suggests that Sam was too stupid to realise this before. Gollum: It wasn't me, it was the fat one! Sam: No, Mr. Frodo, I wouldn't betray you. Gollum: Look, crumbs on his cloak. IT WAS HIM!!! Sam: Duuurrr, I didn't think I ate them, but I can't think of a reasonable explanation as to why I would have the crumbs on my cloak.I guess I must have eaten then, as there's no chance that this despicable creature that I've not trusted for the entirety that we've known him - and I've previously mentioned that I think he's trying to poison Frodo's mind against me - could possibly be responsible for these crumbs being here. Nope there's no explanation, I'll just cry and leave. Sam: Damn, Gollum took the bread! How did I not see this before? Only now that I see the bread here do I realise his evil plan. Its all so much more obvious now than when I saw bread crumbs on my cloak that I didn't put there. Big bread = Gollum is an evil manipulator, I must save Frodo. Small bread = Meh, maybe I'm a sleep-eater, it would explain why I'm so fat. I'll let Gollum off this time.

@zzmoonz

10 жыл бұрын

I thought it was He had proof of what Gollum did

@BadAsh915

10 жыл бұрын

I always just saw this scene as a reminder of their fight and why he left, and realized it was a mistake. I still think it shows he came back to support and help his friend no matter what. I never saw it as "proof of what gollum did", because there is no way to prove that. It could have just as easily fallen out of one of their packs (Sam and Frodo did slip quite a bit on those cliffs and rocks).

@decepticongirl101

10 жыл бұрын

Ashton H Agreed

Top 11 dumbest X Men moments, why hasn't this been made yet?

@jackhamilton9604

9 жыл бұрын

I'd like to see that

OK, i loved this video, but it's time for nitpicking: 11. Gandalf was held by Balrog's whip. If someone grabbed him, he could fall down as well. And it's better to lose one guy than two 10. didn't mind this, but i understand why people would 9. i always thought that's because they wanted to show that Gimli is not in his element in human world. He simply doesn't belong there. 8. how dare you diss on this? 7. never payed attention to this 6. it was movie's goal to show how pathetic Denethor became. Although i agree that he should have just died in fire without running away 5. this is annoying and pointless, gotta agree on that. But, i disagree with 3 things you said. First, Boromir dying is part of his character. He messed up and wanted to redeem himself, which costed him life. Second, that bridge scene. It's not really ridiculous, if you see how tight that bridge is, it means that Aragorn and Gimli are fighting up to 6 orcs at time, something they can deal with. Third, that Gimli's line shows that he is ready to die 4. i couldn't agree more with this one. I like Arwen, but that part was pointless 3. ehhhh, I'll skip this one 2. it always bothered me a lot, but still, Saruman loosing all his power is perfect defeat for him, there was no need for death scene. Although, they could at least show him. 1. there's been many debates about this one so I'll just say why i think they didn't do it: because orcs could easily shoot them down with arrows or just send Nazguls on them. In final battle, everyone focused on humans so it was perfect time for them to strike. Now, someone could say that Frodo could wait with them until the battle starts... well, I'm done with this.

@reddragon8167

8 жыл бұрын

8. We get sick and tired of elves being too perfect. If it's too perfect, it becomes unrelatable and inhuman, and that's bad for a character's sympathy. He could stand to take a few bumps and bruises out there, a few mistakes. I love that scene in Hobbit, DoS, where Legolas feels a cut on his face after a brawl with an orc, almost as if to say, "...Is this what pain feels like?"

@whyareyoureadingmynickname8158

8 жыл бұрын

Red Dragon But elves aren't humans, so it's not problem for me.

@reddragon8167

8 жыл бұрын

***** In the original text, they were said to be, by Tolkien himself, what it would look like if man had not committed the first sin. That's cool and all, but then other stories forget that implication and rip them off, which makes us angry, and then it comes back full circle to the originals. tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OurElvesAreBetter tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CantArgueWithElves tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScrewYouElves tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue Also, it doesn't matter if the character is not a human. They need human traits and flaws to be relatable. Otherwise, they're unrelatable super beings that you can't really like because there's never any point in time where you can go, "Wow! We both have the same problem/belief/quirk/taste in candy! I'd like to be friends with this guy!" or, "Awww, poor guy! He's trying so hard to do well, but just isn't good enough to do it all. I'm not alone in my inadequacy." Kryptonians aren't human, but if they didn't have human love, fear, compassion, sadness, anger, and a sense of humor, nobody would care about Superman. He'd just be an automaton of perfection that always won, and that's boring. Legolas could stand to have a few moments of unease while he works. He can still be the guy they ask to bring down the biggest, baddest monsters, but he shouldn't be able to do it blindfolded.

@christianprestes8175

7 жыл бұрын

11. Watch the scene again, Gandalf was not held by Balrog's whip, otherwise he wouldn't be able to hold to the rock for that long.

@reddragon8167

7 жыл бұрын

Christian Prestes I did very recently. He was, at the last moment, snagged.

I kinda liked the close-ups in the fellowship...

Thumbs up if the whole "Arwen is now tied to the fate of the Ring" always confused you.

Sorry, english is my second language Why the "just use the eagles" argument is invalid 1.- The eye of Sauron is always vigilant, he could have spotted the ring miles away before they cross the gates of Mordor, so he would be prepared 2.- If you try to fly pass the HORDES of archers, you will get shooted. 4.-The eye of Sauron would know in wich eagle the ring is and the archers and every flying creature he controls would make him fall 3.- You can't throw the ring at will and the ring can influense all the people around him, like he did with Boromir and the council of Elrond. 5.-The ring can manipulate all around them to throw him into safety 6.-If you BARELY succed throwing the ring, a flying creature can catch it or change his curse during the fall, or The ring can influense the ring bearer to throw him into safety. 7.-Creatures like the eagles, Tom Bombadil and even the elfs DOESN'T CARE about the worlds problem, they act by his own reasoning. Sorry, but the eagles are not the solution. They enter in the end of the movie, because the army of Mordor was fleeing scared and running for their lives.

"THAT is fucking terrifying!" LOL

I love this review, but I do have to make these points: 11. It might've made sense had the ledge started to break off. 06. THE WORLD was ending around the guy! Wouldn't you go crazy in his position? 05. In the case of the Mouth of Sauron, it wasn't supposed to be a fakeout for the audience; the CHARACTERS didn't know for certain that Frodo was still alive! It was a test of their faith in him!

@sandrols7

10 жыл бұрын

The problem with 6 is not that it doesn't make sense. We know his backstory and the reason of his insanity. The thing he pointed out was that Denethors' character wasn't written and played well enough that you would feel sorry for him, or sympathize with him. There were some moments, I'll admit, for example, when he allows Pippin into the Citadelguard. But apart from that, he could also be a bit too goofy and wacky.

I'm surprised that "I am no man" was not on here. The Witch King - one of the most awesome villains in the trilogy - died because of a technicality. -_-'

@ninjahunter101

10 жыл бұрын

That wasn't because the Witch King could quite literally not be killed by any man. It was just a saying.

I think Arwen's life being tied to the fate of the ring has something to do with the spell she casts that saves Frodo's life when they cross the river.

@vekobr

9 жыл бұрын

Actually it's not, she only summoned water spirits who guarded borders of Rivendell to crush Nazguls.

@DougMcLean3000

9 жыл бұрын

I thought they did actually cover this in a quick line in the film itself - maybe just the extended edition - after Elrond explains how badly immortality would suck for her, she renounces it and becomes mortal? I *think* the elves have the power to do that? So then as a mortal, her fate is tied to that of the ring just as everyone else's is - i.e. if it's destroyed, yay, if not, boo.

@augmenautus

9 жыл бұрын

Nicholas Nameless Yeah she does do that, but Frodo is dying and she says something about let what grace fate has given her go to Frodo or something.

@vekobr

9 жыл бұрын

augmenautus rex Yeah, you are right, i rewatched that moment closely. Still it doesn't make anything more understandable about Arwen's subplot in film.

@augmenautus

9 жыл бұрын

Nicholas Nameless Yeah it doesn't get explained much. It does force Elrond to help Aragorn though, and it forces Aragorn to embrace his destiny as king.

4:06 they were concerned for him because they obviously didn't know he was going to fall in a lake? most of the characters hadn't even heard of moria.

although this is almost a year old, I still have to comment the first "dumb thing". it is not quite that dumb because, if you look closely you see that gandalf does not simply fall, he is dragged down and that with a magical whip no less. chances are, anyone who would have come to help him would have been dragged down with gandalf and that is why no body dared to go near him making this scene all the more dramatic because of its inevitability.

@leoschue8071

10 жыл бұрын

The cliff could be unstable.

@howmaneverton9630

10 жыл бұрын

I am quite sure that would not be a problem. the have a guy, who can walk on top of a snow heap without leaving footprints.

@leoschue8071

10 жыл бұрын

Yeah, well Boromir doesn't know that.

@howmaneverton9630

10 жыл бұрын

sure dude sure he knows... still drag and drop!

@MrCmon113

10 жыл бұрын

They could have made it just as dramatic with the whip pulling him down directly imo. This way it only confuses people.

Why they 'let' Gandalf die? MAYBE its because the orcs are showering arrows at them!

@Threnan17

10 жыл бұрын

They weren't when the fellowship were just staring dumbly at him.

@qpopuiuzmnmb

10 жыл бұрын

None of that 'in the book' crap please...Just PLEASE keep it in the book-INSPIRED movies! and it seems Tom u hate the movies with a vengeance because it didn't follow the books word by word

@qpopuiuzmnmb

10 жыл бұрын

Guess I was wrong to expected a civilised debate on a loved book series and movie series huh...

@aqvist4696

10 жыл бұрын

qpopuiuzmnmb I agree with you.. This is the movie, not the book. And as a movie is should be able to explain everything it needs on it's own..

I never saw Frodo and Sam's relationship even bordering upon gay, in the books or movies. Granted, this might be because I'm not a "manly-man" nor do I pretend to be one, and I've cried over shit now and again with my guy friends and vice-versa. In a lot of ways, life itself is a climb to Mount Doom, and although I know Jacob was probably referring to their incessant holding of each other in the films and their corny dialogue, it is important to note that "Gamgee" is a reference to the bandages that kept Tolkien together during WWI.

@Maerahn

7 жыл бұрын

Exactly. For the relationship between Frodo and Sam, Tolkien drew heavily on his experiences of fighting in the trenches alongside his comrades in WW1, where that kind of loyalty and deep kinship absolutely DID exist, because you never knew from one moment to the next if you or your comrades-in-arms were going to survive or wind up in bits in the mud.

"So I didn't eat it!" I nearly died from laughing!

Re: the Eagles argument, besides what's already been said: first, both Sauron and Saruman had birds as spies; thus they'd have both noticed someone riding an Eagle and either or both villains would have done something about it (whether or not they knew what the purpose was). Second, as seen, throwing the Ring into the fire wasn't very easy even after taking all that trouble to get there. Would it have been easier to do so from the back of an Eagle?

@yungblud2000

10 жыл бұрын

that, and they wouldn't oh had half the trouble, if any from Gollum, the fight at the end where he falls into the lava with the ring, never would oh happend, plus COME ON, i admit, i never saw the movies all the way though but come on, it's a fucking eye, can't the oh so perfect elf god with a bow just shoot the fucker in the pupil? i know it's kinda make of fire or something but IT'S A FUCKING EYE, LOOK AT ANY LEGEND OF ZELDA BOSS, the weak point is always, ALWAYS the eye

@paulopereira2882

10 жыл бұрын

That eye would be out of Legolas's range, unless he snuck up to it and there's no way he'd be able to do that.. Anyway, the eye was pretty stupid in the first place. There was no literal eye mounted on a tower in the book.

@yungblud2000

10 жыл бұрын

Paulo Pereira so hecan kill giant dinosaur elephant things but the eye is out of range?

@zZiL341yRj736

10 жыл бұрын

What the fuck are u talking about? It's a fucking eye of fire, get the fuck outta here with the Zelda argument, god damn!

@paulopereira2882

10 жыл бұрын

Lewis Young Yeah, the eye is in a different country (not that the elephant scene wasn't fucking ridiculous).

LORD OF THE RINGS HAS NO DUMB MOMENTS!!! IT'S PERFECT, MASTERPIECE AND JUST EPIC! THE BEST TRILOGY EVER, AND FOREVER!

@varlock05

10 жыл бұрын

every movie have stupid moments -.-

@MrBergal

10 жыл бұрын

But not LOTR!!!

@MrBergal

10 жыл бұрын

xD

@heckalit8818

10 жыл бұрын

While I do agree that the trilogy is a fantastic piece of cinema, I'd just like to say, simmer the fuck down.

@OMartinez91

10 жыл бұрын

That's like saying that Harry Potter movies had no plot holes

Denethor: For me, one of the biggest signs of his dignity in the book was that he didn't just fall on a pyre and die 'on accident'... he leapt upon it with the Palantir in his hands in the ultimate act of defiance. That particular Palantir was affected forever. You had to have a strong will to get anything out of it but an image of an old man's hands withering in flame.

I think doug is kinda blowing the whole gimli thing out of proportion like...really out of proportion so what, a character can't be badass but still have alot of goofy moments to flesh him out as a character? In that case, I think Vash the Stampede would like a word with you

@MasterBombadillo

9 жыл бұрын

John David Tibbetts Really? Comparing Vash to Gimli in terms of character development? That's actually insulting to writers who wrote Vash - with him we see so much. The only dignifying moments Gilmi has are in FotR, every line he says after that is written for some laughs. That's not fleshing out a character, that's writing a clown. At moments, he even seems like he's written just to parody Dwarves.

@johndavidtibbetts7320

9 жыл бұрын

***** well it's not like we should expect anything less out of Jackson, the man has a very childish sense of humor

#2: I wish they had included the scouring of the shire.

The Frodo Sam gay elements came from the political correctness of the story, since originally Sam was supposed to be a man servant of the Baggins family, rather than a freelance gardener. That is why he always called Frodo "MISTER Frodo" (along with "Mr. Pippin" and "Mr. Merry"since they were high lords in the book), and Sam waited on him hand and foot like a servant is supposed to do. In the movie they couldn't have master-servant relationships, since it is too politically incorrect, so their relationship just looked too plain gay. Just one more case of Jackson's messing with things that he had no clue about, and mucking up the whole story. So.. when Sam got married, it proved nothing-- except maybe that sometimes hobbits DO have beards ROTLFMAO

"...so I DIDN'T eat it!!!" God I cracked up there.

I see the eagles as Tolkiens thoughts of the American soldiers coming to aid the allies in WWI. They showed up near the end to help fight the much larger German army and gave the allies that push needed to win the war.

@vekobr

9 жыл бұрын

Actually Tolkien was asked more than once if it all was the metaphor for real Earth Europe, an he clearly stated in his letters that it was not.

@simonpurist4499

9 жыл бұрын

Nicholas Nameless Not metaphor-- ALLEGORY, i.e. direct represtation.. Anyway WWI was symbolized in The Hobbit, in which Tolkien served, meanwhile LotR was more like WW2.in which Christopher (Frodo) served and the Ring (i.e. martial law) played a major part. That's why Gandalf absolutely reject's Denethor's desire to keep the Ring even as a last resort, i.e. because it would be used regardless.