I’m a basically a pure wrestler with a little bit of Bjj experience, and I think judo is badass, with or without a gi!! All forms of grappling should be huge worldwide but it will never happen🤦🏻‍♂️

grew up in Hawai'i and we often trained without GI because of the heat however it was a home gym with mild competition as an adult I taught my high school wrestlers Judo and was extraordinarily successful because a lot of the techniques transferred so well plus they were so naive to them... by far the biggest best and most dramatic Judo techniques that surprises American wrestlers is Tawara Gaeshi and Daki Wakare! American wrestlers have never seen anything like that even though it's common in freestyle

I feel like Sumo ought to be part of the larger conversation here. We frequently practice without using the belt in our system to learn to not rely on it, and many of the concepts here, like being chest to chest, using sweeps, throws without gi, etc… and that essentially IS nogi Judo. We have sooo many moves that work great here, and the infrastructure, while not as widespread as gi Judo, is actually there and growing rapidly.

Having done Judo and Sambo I think for the current ruleset of Sambo with no gi/kurtka would lead to the best results in terms of creating a no gi stand up grappling system. It really encompasses everything and compensates for the problem mentioned about not needing anything complicated due to guard pulling. We actually have a no-kurtka division now with Sambo nation. Some discoveries I made doing it is that Sasae is really good to use with arm drags and slide bys to get to the back. Uchi mata, Ko-uchi and O-uchi are really good set ups for ankle picks. There’s many more but I really want to make an instructional about it sometime soon. Great show I really got a lot out of the live brainstorming and discussion.

@keropnw3425

5 ай бұрын

Judo has recent rule problems that make it this way

@keropnw3425

5 ай бұрын

Sambo is basically Judo from 10 years ago, leg grabs and freer gripping

@jedijudoka

5 ай бұрын

@@keropnw3425eh not exactly. Sambists usually take a much more bent over and defensive posture, much more so than compared to even old judo. So you see lots of shots, foot sweep attempts, and sacrifice attempts, but rarely do you see rearward throws or turn throws. On paper, you think it would resemble old judo, but its wrestling influence is strong.

"No-gi judo" sounds like a catch wrestling reconstruction. It'd be very beneficial for it to take off

I first got in contact with the idea of nogi judo at an Owen Livesey seminar, he's definitely a good name to look up with a bunch of good videos and his own online grappling academy out there. Great videos btw, been binge watching episodes over the holidays 🤙

Was talking to my MMA coach Kajan (has a great channel, tristar west coast) and he was explaining to me one of the reasons dagestani's are so successful is how they mix their Judo/Sambo with freestyle wrestling. Anyway, brings me here. No-gi judo is a new element to MMA and its already making an impact via Sambo! Fedor, Khabib and Islam utilize it a lot. And let's not forget Karo Parisiyan and Rhonda who used it more directly vs indirectly through Sambo. (Sambo is a sport that partially came out of Judo for those who don't know, a lot of it is based on Judo mixed with some other arts.)

Judoka used to practice no gi especially sumo regularly.

@keropnw3425

5 ай бұрын

I want to do maybe 75% gi 25% no gi if I can.

@keropnw3425

5 ай бұрын

I think if you want to do both that's a good mix.

The way I have been thinking about the difference between No gi judo, and wrestling is that of the principles and philosophy behind the ‘Ju’. I just finished Mind Over Muscle and it really clarified for me the intention behind Judo. You mentioned JFlo and when you watch him, he can see that he’s really doing Judo, not just wrestling.

I first found no-gi judo while practicing bjj. We always started standing up, but I always had an edge because I could take people by surprise by tripping or throwing from upright positions. It became a thing in my gym to practice judo throws as much as takedowns

imo it’s all just grappling. what changes the “style,” are the rules. But if you just tell two people to grapple and pin eachother, you’ll see judo moves, wrestling moves or sambo moves. No style is better. It’s the athlete that determines how well he can adapt to any scenario. We need to stop separating styles and appreciate and see what we can take from other arts and use it in our own.

Nogi Judo is the future

It’s funny listening to people say Judo isn’t good in no gi while also hearing them talk about how Greco is amazing against the octagon wall and how incredible Khabib is at trips and throws. Like ya guys that’s all in Judo. I always knew Judo would become the new meta in bjj and mma. People always get carried along kicking and screaming. So Khabib is one of the goats, Fedor is one of the goats…oh and they are both Judo experts, especially Fedor. I know Khabib wrestled but he uses a TON of techniques more at home in a Judo tournament than wrestling, even if legal in both.

@AceBoogie_

5 ай бұрын

Greco is Greco and Judo is Judo. They are not the same thing. The gi makes a huge difference.

@estogaza5827

5 ай бұрын

@@AceBoogie_ Ya and any time anyone with elite (or often mediocre) Judo ties up in a Greco position in mma they toss the other guy with ease. Judo is arguably more effective for mma than Greco.

@AceBoogie_

5 ай бұрын

@@estogaza5827 no it isn’t 😂 how many wrestlers have won MMA championships? and how many judokas have done the same? I’ll wait. The proof is in the pudding buddy. Wrestling is probably the best base for MMA.

@estogaza5827

5 ай бұрын

@@AceBoogie_ Your first post was stupid enough. I’m not going to bother continuing to respond to a fool. “Greco is Greco”. GEE THANKS FOR THAT WISDOM. And everything you wrote in this post is stupid too. I never said wrestlers didn’t win a lot. I said judo has been super effective when implemented by competent mma athletes like Fedor. The goat heavyweight champ who beat like ten UFC champions and went ten years undefeated.

@dhimankalita1690

5 ай бұрын

​​@@AceBoogie_dude islam makhachev literally uses judo and is more judo based than wrestling. Nobody with wrestling or bjj will be a champion in mma. The literal meaning of mma is mixed martial art. Judo guys don't come to mma much because judo champions can't due to the prestige in judo.if you wrestling a judo champion in olympics the amount if respect and money you will make far outweighs the prestige of being an mma guy

The older you get the less you want to deal with gi grips.

@jacobnapkins1155

2 ай бұрын

"Sing me the song your the piano man"....MY HANDS ARE BROKEN!

@chcknpie04

Ай бұрын

I really do love gaming in a gi, but the thing that will ultimately kill it for me as I age is the I don’t want my fingers to always hurt

Thank god for you shintaro 👍👍👍👍👍👍 keep making podcasts and videos

I realized a while ago that my wrestling isn't good enough to implement my judo without the gi. But working on hand fighting a lot and how to get to clinch positions has helped. I feel like finding a balance between the two is where success lies.

Not sure if nogi Judo is anything new. Sumo, Beach Wrestling and various other styles across the world all are without gi and upright as the knees can't touch the ground. In MMA a ton of folks use Judo throws. Fedor, Karo and Ronda Rousey are probably the most famous ones. But even people without Judo background use uchi mata, ko soto gari, koshi guruma, sasae tsuri komi ashi etc. Even freestyle wrestlers can use a ton of Judo like moves when clinched up. It just seems that the new meta of nogi is now switching more towards nogi Judo so for people who only watch that it appears a new development, while in reality it has already been around forever.

Good discussion, We used to practice without the gi when I trained with my Korean instructor Master Lee, especially when practicing self defense or goshin jitsu. We would also practice with street clothes or coats. Master Lee was also big on atemi waza so we practiced karate and boxing with our Judo a lot. It was all fun and it was all Judo or as he would say Old Judo, not sport. I've enjoyed watching.and learning from Satoshi Ishii's New Wave Judo and incorporating Greco into my no-gi practice.

Nogi Judo was already in mma. Just that it now becomes a thing in grappling

Hey there's a reverse rear headlock over the shoulder throw that you see in the movies and every once in a great while in folkstyle from the turtle pos... that I can only describe as a "no-gi drop knee moroto seonage".

Lucky, pre pandemic trained judo with a sambo expert, who exhorted me to think as a meta grappler, during the pandemic trained with a colligate wrestler, post pandemic trained at a 10th planet, where no one would start from a standing position, despite being 66 years old

No-gi judo is basically Greco-Roman wrestling plus sweeps, reaps, and trips. Would love to see it become a prominent style either through IJF or UWW. I think UWW should allow leg to leg attacks in Greco because it’s too hard to score from standing with current rules. The Greco purists will hate it but current rules are not at all fan friendly. It’s basically a gut wrench competition.

No gi judo would take off if marketed as a slwf defense system...

Honestly, it sounds a lot like some Catch Wrestling, which makes sense as both, Judo and Catch, had a lot of crosstraining going on (Kimura being one prime example).

Are you planning instrcutional about No-GI Judo?

There is a shoulder roll modified kani-bisami counter to the single.

From what i ve seen in the MMA world Islam Makhachev uses Judo a lot on his fights. Judo take downs are so elegent compared to your typical wrestling take downs

During my first no gi match, I throwed my opponent with Kubi Nage, but after I stayed too much in kesa gatame and he strangled me with a guillotine from closed guard.😅😂

Chadi also covered this topic: kzread.info/dash/bejne/m2SZj9dwpqe7Y7A.html

From a self defence point of view would you say No-gi submission grappling is a more comprehensive self defence combative system than Olympic focused Judo? I think No-Gi Judo will be absorbed into it as long as leg grabs and more newasa are still not truly a part of it.

@janduits992

5 ай бұрын

Playing seated guard is self defense?

@pablotapiafineart

5 ай бұрын

@@janduits992 no… as tactic it is stupid. Nevertheless in a messy fight you might end up grappling on the ground whether you want it or not… I’m sure you know if you don’t practice that and you end up there with someone who is competent on the ground it is not a nice experience. Self defence requires you to be a well-rounded grappler… not a “specialised” competitor (like a competition only focused Judoka or a regular BJJ Gi player). Old Judo might have been it… these days it is not. In that sense Sambo, Catch wrestling and No-Gi submission grappling are better at making you a well rounded grappler. Judokas shouldn’t be happy about that, so what are we gonna do about it? Keep banning more techniques? We are not growing the repertoire…we are shrinking it!

@Reflectionmaterial

5 ай бұрын

@@pablotapiafineart seems the more rules emphasize standing (freestyle wrestling, Judo, Sambo) and quick transitions in groundwork, the better you get at not getting taken down and taking down others. Every spar or competition in nogi that starts with a person playing seated guard is time not spent performing and defending takedowns. While in real life that takedown will often decide everything.

@pablotapiafineart

5 ай бұрын

@@Reflectionmaterial I never advocated butt scooting as a tactic for self defence! Nevertheless, to bet that you will always be the guy that stays upright and to bet that somehow you have such control that you will always impart the exact level of damage on the take down, particularly with big amplitude throws (enough to be the last move required but not enough to not end up in jail for manslaughter) is unrealistic. Also people tend to assume it is always gonna be a one to one situation with roughly even weights. Mate… I’m 166cm tall! I grew up surrounded by violence… I saw fights every single day of my childhood… whether at school or between grown up men on the streets…. I even defended against a knife attack once in my mid twenties. A good wrestling/ grappling system for self defence is a well rounded one… (and here we are leaving all strikes out just for the love of purity… because as tactic it would be stupid to do so as well) everything short of is putting your money on wishful thinking. The more rules in your sport version of the combative system you practice, the more it stirs the art towards an impractical system. I feel competition judo is becoming an example of that. No-Gi judo, bringing back all leg attacks and extended newasa would fix it.

@Reflectionmaterial

5 ай бұрын

@@pablotapiafineart how many times did you use submission grappling in use of force situations?? I feel stand up grappling applies to way more situations. I have used clinching, russian tie, handfighting to restrain people and break up fights during work. I have also performed several citizen arrests during work and in private. Not once did I felt it was a great idea to grapple someone on the ground and try to apply submission holds. Being on your feet and being a less appealing target to bystanders and being able to quickly create space and move away is super important in dynamic situations.

Also folkstyle just pumped the points on TDs from 2 up to 3 points.

There is definitely a big upswing in "no gi judo" namely among jiujitsu people, there a lot of instructionals coming out now targeted at that audience, but it's not new. There are old videos like this kzread.info/dash/bejne/fXZ-lZimhbXFY84.htmlsi=TQdoSEFjF6B52PUQ And old jujutsu manuals showing no gi techniques were in jma. And more recently than that but still preceding the current trend you had people like Karo and Fedor. Karo did some videos and a book on it even.

@gladiumcaeli

5 ай бұрын

Fantastic video, always a treat to watch old training videos

Man, I have been telling all these guys that standing upright to avoid guillotines will get you crushed with low singles and picks. No one listens.

Nogi micro-judo? 🤔

I don't get these wrestling comparisons to Judo. Wrestling doesn't have newaza.

@guillermopilajes826

5 ай бұрын

Freestyle wrestling uses a lot of the same immobilizations, chokes and locks used in Judo. Hell leg grabs were eventually banned in Olympic style Judo partly because it had to differentiate itself from freestyle wrestling and cause Sambo and wrestling heavy Russian judokas were spamming it heavily because it worked so well.

@Reflectionmaterial

5 ай бұрын

Go behinds, turnovers, pins and countering those.

@pablotapiafineart

5 ай бұрын

Catch wrestling had everything…. Unfortunately is almost a dying art.

@Reflectionmaterial

5 ай бұрын

@@pablotapiafineart take the subs away and you end up with freestyle or folkstyle wrestling.

@YouZerError

5 ай бұрын

@@Reflectionmaterial that's not submissions