The charging curve seems to be the LG 5L 79 kWh battery pack we are getting in Europe since a few years. This is definitely charging slower than the Panasonic 82 kWh pack from the new Model 3 Performance, and much slower than the old 75 kWh Panasonic pack from the classic Model 3 2017 to 2020.

@yurymol

Ай бұрын

Once again, I'm happy a bought an older M3 LR. Turns out in addition to the USS I have a a better battery :)

@EthanHooley

Ай бұрын

my new model 3 LR (built in shanghai) uses a LG 79kwh battery pack i believe. it charges up to 256kw and tapers around 30%ish most of the time. but sometimes it caps around 200kw even 170kw with battery pack fully preconditioned, tried a couple of v3 superchargers in shanghai here all behaved the same. probably some firmware issue there.

@renebergqvist599

Ай бұрын

My 2019 LR awd (Freemont Panasonic) charges faster than this....... Disappointing

"I hope Tesla takes charging seriously in 2024!" Tesla in 2024: Lays off the charging department.

@rosmarin2438

Ай бұрын

They weren’t building fast enough

@newjdm

Ай бұрын

First thing I thought too

@The-Rest-of-Us

Ай бұрын

Sounds like they *are* taking it seriously (the old team clearly didn’t deliver…)

@robgeach8105

Ай бұрын

@@The-Rest-of-Us I understand this is likely the ravings of a lunatic stockholder, but no copium on the planet should allow your mind to accept an argument that any concept "being taken seriously" results in deleting your old team before you have a new team in place. You show seriousness by incorporating continuity. The only thing serious about laying off the supercharger team is musk personally reaching for his tesla billions to cover his X disaster.

@The-Rest-of-Us

Ай бұрын

@@robgeach8105 👍🏼

Thanks, Andy!

@DouglasJMark

Ай бұрын

Love the wheels you chose.

Out of Spec doing such a public service with all these tests... thanks guys! 🙏

The battery is the LG, which has not been a great charging battery compared to the Panasonic.

@pqvid

Ай бұрын

I thought US made cars would still have Panasonic batteries? If not, then yes, LG has been a downgrade, actually.

@MarsPLAYStudio

Ай бұрын

@@pqvid Looks like starting with the new Model 3 refresh, they start using LG

@Mr21December2012

Ай бұрын

My 2019 LR with Panasonic cells is still the fastest charging Model 3… quite odd indeed that Tesla did not improved charging time but instead worsen it

@user-gx1uj1lt9b

Ай бұрын

@@pqvid Nope. 2024 M3 get LG which is why they lose the tax credit. Tesla is saving the limited production of US Panasonic batteries for the Y and M3P. I'm not sure what they will do to throttle demand now that it seems everyone is switching their M3 LR orders to the M3P. Maybe another price bump to kick the M3P out of tax credit category until supply balances.

@yurymol

Ай бұрын

@@Mr21December2012 And it still doesn't feel like enough, does it? I have the same one.

Phew… feeling pretty good about my 2023 RWD 😊. I’ve always felt that even though it has low peak speeds, its insane efficiency and decent curve make it a great road tripper. It barely slows my family down at all compared to ICE and is usually ready to continue the trip before us when we stop to charge.

@zguy95135

Ай бұрын

0-60% in about 13 minutes and to 80% in ~23 mins. It charges so fast

Thanks Andy!

2024 M3 LR is using LG battery pack which I believe is 79kwh and should have 250kw peak charge rate according to Tesla site. 2023 M3 RWD uses CATL 60kwh battery pack. Tesla Model Y and Model 3 performance are using Panasonic 82kwh pack made in Nevada. Both my M3 Performance MY LR have better charging performance than the LG pack and will pull 250kw from about 10-25% before starting to taper and usually still pulling 115kw at 50%. While it’s still decent charging, I agree that Tesla needs to improve the charge curve.

My new 2024 Austin built long range Model Y only charges at 250kw for just a minute or 2. My 2019 long range Model 3 holds 250kw for several minutes.

Somehow I got a better result in the Model Y RWD (without software unlock for full pack)? This is quite surprising.

@badtoro

Ай бұрын

You’re trying too hard. I see you posting all over social media. Your posts and empty nonsense just to get your post count up. Try meaningful replies. Oh by the way, thanks for stopping to pronounce city names since that has always been an issue.

@bsaxman2012

Ай бұрын

Panasonic 2170s? Per Troy Teslike's Sep 13, 2023 X/Twitter post, the Austin-built Ys use Panasonic. That may explain the charging speed variance if Kyle/Andy's M3 uses LG 2170s.

@brandenflasch

Ай бұрын

@@bsaxman2012yes

@rosmarin2438

Ай бұрын

Panasonic FTW

@garyprice1145

Ай бұрын

Gotta love the RWD Model Y!

saw near identical chare behavior with my 23 M3LR on a road trip last weekend. nearly identical conditions.

Thank you Andy. Debating ordering this car so this was very insightful!!

I did this test on my 2022 LR Model 3 with 18" wheels last summer in FL. I got peak charging speeds and it added 36 kwh in 15 minutes. I drove 121 miles at 80 mph to get it back down to 10%.

@rosmarin2438

Ай бұрын

So about 240 mile real world

@bigpoppa4094

Ай бұрын

What about if you went 65 mph? How many miles would you get ?

@BenefitOfTheDoubtInquiry

Ай бұрын

​@@bigpoppa4094 According to these nuts, 65MPH on a road trip isn't reasonable...🙄

@angryGTS

Ай бұрын

​@@BenefitOfTheDoubtInquirynot if it's under the speed limit. Maybe in states like New Jersey where the speed limit is stupid slow.

@tazeat

Ай бұрын

​@@BenefitOfTheDoubtInquiryit just depends where, in the mountain west, it's definitely slow when speed limits are 75 ±

I've been thinking about this today after watching Brandon's 2024 MY video and now this. I think when looking at charging curve graphs, you should normalize the X axis to raw kWh and not percentages. Percentages are misleading. That's why marketing loves them.

@stevenhe314

17 күн бұрын

they should include the most important number, efficiency, kw/wh, in that graph to be fair

Thank you, Andy!

Thanks for another great video. Again I learned something new by watching these videos. I have always wondered if you could switch off the fan on one side or the other in the front seats. Sometimes my passenger wants the fan turned on and I don't want it in my driver's side. And now I just leaned to hold the fan on the screen to turn it off. Thx Im still a noob and learning from each video lol (from a Model 3 LR Highland owner)

Well, that cgarging behaviour is common for Model3 and Y in Europe for 3 years now. They are getting worse and worse in charging performance. 10%-80% was 20 minutes in 2019 models. 2021 with 3L batteries it dipped down to 25 minutes and now with LG it is 27minutes at best.

@Mr21December2012

Ай бұрын

Yep, quite happy with my M3 LR 2019 with the good Panasonic cells, it still charges like a beast. Had a 2022 MY LR rental and was disappointed with the charging speed…

Great useful review, Thanks

Thanks Andy, much appreciated. You the man.

Must be the new battery. Maybe still playing it safe as they collect data. My 2023 model Y LR consistently charges at 250kw up to roughly 28% before starting to taper.

@leanderzulu3494

Ай бұрын

Hmmm. My Austin built 2023 MYLR starts to taper from 250 kW around 18%

@sprockkets

Ай бұрын

What new battery?

@patrickhornacek8593

Ай бұрын

@@sprockketsthere are some saying it’s an LG pack, not the Panasonic pack.

@patrickhornacek8593

Ай бұрын

@@leanderzulu3494yes, you’re correct. 18% it falls off from 250kw, and mine stays above 200kw until around 28%. Sorry, typing too fast.

Tesla as fallen behind in charging speeds, like you said Kyle. Like the charging speed are okay but definitely not class leading, gotta wonder if this was part of the reason Tesla charger team got let go. Tesla could really use that Catl fast charging collaboration to bear fruit quickly. While I'm looking to buy the new model 3 performance or the Juniper Model Y, I wanna wait for the faster charging batteries to be put into all new Tesla vehicles, sure I'm not the only one that is waiting.

What sucks here is Tesla really hasn’t changed their battery charge rates on M3 since release in 2018.

Yep, the LG 5L pack charging curve really disappoints. Actually that's what is currently holding me back from ordering the new (Shanghai built) M3P here in Germany as it also comes with this lame LG pack instead of the 82kWh Panasonic pack of the Freemont built cars. 🙁

I have a 2022 Model 3 Performance on 20” Aero wheels and the ultra efficient 235/35/20 Hankook iON EVO AS tires. I will run this test on it this week and see how it compares.

Nice! Keep highland videos coming! Mega cool.

My M3P 2023 does the same thing when charging. I’ve only tried supercharging 3 times but even with warm weather, preconditioning, and below 30% soc, it wouldn’t go above 130 kw at a 250kw charger. It dropped to around 92 kw after about 6 min.

thank you, Andy!!!!

I took delivery of my refreshed M3 LR in March first EV. I absolutely love this car. It puts a smile on my face every time I go for a drive

@amrindraouk3440

Ай бұрын

Same man. I picked up mine in March too

Thanks Andy!! I will think about you when I barbeque today

So glad my 2023 YLR doesnt have the new 4680 battery: a gift for shareholders, not for owners.

One thing. If you analyze these results statistically, I think there won't be any difference among some groups of cars e.g. 106 will be basically the same as 109 and 98. Of course it will be difficult to test 4 or more cars under the same conditions, the same day.

324 wh/mi is just terrible even at 80 mph. What tires were on that car? Tires can make a difference but it usually doesn’t help as much at higher speeds.

@joshuasmith7369

Ай бұрын

Question: Do you have any friends in the video game arena? Could you, Would you ask one of them to make an "Out of Spec racing game" based on ones y'all have already done. On PS4 or laptop computer? I would buy the game if you had it made.

@GraysonCarr

Ай бұрын

Even Tesla tells you that this wheel and tire package is very inefficient. It’s rated for 305 miles with these wheels, but 341 miles with the 18” aero wheel and tire package. That’s an 11% hit just from wheels and tires, and according to those numbers, the car might be able to do 290 Wh/mi at 80 with the aeros.

I like this data. Its a great comparison

Great video. I would like a test against a completely different charging station to rule out the grid location (I understand you tested different stalls). Next I would like to see results from another person's M3LR to make sure it isn't something isolated to this single instance.

After charging and as you start to drive, wasn't the car still pre-conditioning since the designation was still set to supercharger?

my 2023 Model 3 RWD LFP is only rated for 175kw. It'll get 200 right at the beginning, but quickly drops just like yours. maybe similar battery?

Epic video!

I love this test

Also charging slows on the new y if you are watching you tube videos or air conditioning at a higher speed

Yesterday in Cary, NC, I spotted a Model Y with the license plate WTHNSPEC. Clearly, you have a fan here!

My 2023 Model Y Fremont built will not start immediately at 255 under 10%, usually about 150kw till it hits 10%, or about 3 minutes depending on how much lower than 10% arrival at Supercharger.

I had similarly less than great experience charging at that Buc-ee's(not getting max) two different times.

Looking forward to your M3P test next.

I’m pretty sure Tesla has a sound rationale for using these batteries. There are a lot of trade-off decisions to be made when selecting a specific battery for an EV. Some examples: Price -if the battery is less expensive, then you have more money to spend on other features of which the new Model 3 has many; Battery Life-a slower charging rate might extend the life of the battery; Availability-it may have been the only battery available in the volumes necessary to support the numbers of new Model 3’s they expect to produce; Battery-Supplier Relationships-Tesla needs to build strong relationships with all of the big battery producers by spreading out the business since things can change fast in the business; Safety-a slower charging rate may improve the safety of the battery; Out performing your own higher-profit products-you want customers to see value in opting for one of your higher-end products if they can afford it. Also keep in mind that in the past when Tesla has introduced new models, they have initially throttled back one or more of the performance features until they have time to gather sufficient real-world data from the fleet to release Over-The-Air performance upgrades that are optimized in accordance with the data.

@kaelloof

Ай бұрын

Disagree. Long range should be purpose built for quick charge and capacity. There is no excuse for being worse than previous year. Might as well delete long range for manufacturing efficiency

@Aztasu

Ай бұрын

@@kaelloofExactly

Have you done a test on the consumption difference between no autopilot, basic/enhanced autopilot and FSD. I mean its quite a few cameras rolling plus a powerful computer. The impact would also be greater at low speeds

My 2016 Model s 90D has a similar charging curve to this. Crazy!

Thanks Andy for your M3 loan.

THANKS ANDY❗️

is there a video like this for the 2024 Model 3 *RWD*? I got one a month ago and am planning a road trip in a few months

I wonder if this has the LG Chem pack? The LG packs are horribly slow in comparison to the Panasonic packs. But the upside is that rhey also tend to degrade a fair bit slower.

When do we get to see the refreshed Performance test drive? I want to know your impressions on handling and braking. World class this time, or no?

26:00 can you add ioniq 5 to the list as well? Both 20" and 19" ones.

I have a 2022 model 3 LR that charges exactly like this. When I bought it I figured it would have the 82kw Panasonic pack but the Tessie app shows it only had 79kwh new so now I think it has the LG pack. Only goes above 250kw under 10% and under 100ish kw at 50%. Very disappointed in charging speeds vs the older packs and even compared to the two model 3 rwd LFP cars I’ve driven. I was under the impression that all 2021 m3p, 2022 m3 LR and newer got the 82kwh Panasonic pack here in the US. What’s everyone’s experience with the Panasonic 82kwh charge curve??

Do we need to calibrate Tesla batterys, NMC

Time to test the Leaf Plus on its last year of production

"Try Full Self-Driving" - Tab to enable 😍 Would love to test it! First thing i will do, if it will be possible in Germany too. For me, its the worlds best car too, Kyle - gj job, as always 👍 Btw: I have nearly the same charging perfomance in my 03/2023 M3P - guess its the same pack here - good for lifetime protection

Matrix LEDs also solve this Auto High Beam problem in the EU. I hope we will see an 800V system in the next Model 3 and Y in the future. The charging curve looks similar to that of my 2022 Model 3 LR with an LG battery.

In Los Angeles on every corner? Bit of a stretch observation for such a numbers driven channel. Anywho, thank you Andy 🎈

Similar charging curve on my model 3 highland LR AWD. I might be ~10kW higher at similar SoC levels. Looks like the LG pack does indeed charge more slowly.

If you’re in Austin, Texas in the near future, you can review mine with the 18” photon wheels.

I’m mostly happy with my 23 RWD, but I plan on trading in to the new M3P. Not just the performance, but I’m into how much quieter it is and obviously the AWD for inclement weather.

Which ccs charger has tesla adapters?

Weird that it’s topping out at 150 kw. My 2018 model 3 long range did 250. I rented a 2020 standard range and it topped out at 150. We sure this isn’t the standard range?

Aren’t they “throttling” the CT’s new battery pack? There will probably be a SW update soon.

Did you check tyre pressure before starting the test? should be 42 min when cold if it was anything below it then it would affect range.

LG batteries just do not charge as quick as Panasonic but rumour has it less battery degradation than the Pan batteries.

The LG batter pack i have here in italy on my 2021 m3LR has the same Charging curve. Cant stay at 250 over 10%. They Never improved that side, i would have really liked a bump on the Charging speed. Usually it stays under 150 on 35/36% and at 27/28% if u start at 3%.

I would buy one but not trading in my current tesla with stalks for no stalks

Need to ensure aero wheels or equivalent are installed, they affect the range by as much as 10%. If you'd had those on there, you might have done 110 miles and beat the M3 RWD. I have the 2023 RWD LFP, btw.

Why the other 4 out of specs guys tested it a couple months ago, none of them really like it. They kept bashing the Highland for the entire hour, all other reviewers all liking it.

I would expect the M3P's battery to be the same as the MYP's current battery. For reference, I have a 2/24 build MYP and it's only slightly better charging than this.

Ping me, got the Highland on the 18” wheels. Live close to your new fav supercharger.

Is this one a NMC?

Is there a link to the data?

It would be cool if the ambient lighting went red when you entered service mode

The 15 minutes charging should include the handshake times for a typical accessible charger. The 6 seconds on a Tesla charger is part of the Tesla performance profile compared to the rigmarole of using non-Tesla chargers (subject to any deterioration now they've fired the SC team!)

It charges the same like my 2023 Model Y from the giga berlin. at 50 % not more than 110 kW and at 55 below 100 kW. Would like a 20 / 25 min 10-80 charging time. other than that i like my Model Y. Looks like it is the LG 5L battery. Powertrain / Battery basically not different than the Model Y or a Model 3 from 2017 other than a slower chargin battery.

Love this test! Any chance we could get a 10% Challenge on the new 2024 Kona Electric? It had a major refresh including a significant improvement to charging curve (better than MY23+ Kia Niro EV), it appears it holds 85 to 100kW up to about 62% SOC. I imagine it will be a common cross shop for Model Y and Model 3 buyers, especially with the $7500 discount incentives Hyundai is currently offering.

@sprockkets

Ай бұрын

If only they gave it a heat pump for the us market.

I have noticed whenever they release a new model, it charges slow. They usually bump up the speed on down the line.

@sprockkets

Ай бұрын

Bro they changed the bumper and headlamps plus some other elements. It's the same car otherwise lol 😂

Andy is amazing ❤

What about the weight of the vehicles affecting range ? I would think a dual motor vs a single motor would have some effect on the weight.

@ouch1011

Ай бұрын

The weight makes basically no difference when driving at a steady speed on flat ground. Weight only makes a difference when accelerating (which includes climbing hills since you’re having to counteract gravity). The dual motor setup makes a difference in rolling resistance since you have to spin the front motor, hubs, axles, differential, etc, but it’s not really a substantial difference with the current drivetrains.

Thank You Andy for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth.... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste 🙏🏻 😊 ✌ ☮ ❤ 🕊

@loriallen67

29 күн бұрын

Who is Andy?

Can you tell us if Tesla keeps their charging rates less to ensure their battery packs last long? I recall learning that their battery packs have less and less degradation and failure rates over the years. I wonder if the competitors have data like Tesla has? Thanks 🙏 PS Maybe Tom Moloughney at State of Charge knows?

LOVE TO ANDYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!

what happened to the rest of the truck videos?

My 2024 Model 3 LR gets the full 250kW (~248kW) when supercharging at lower SOC.

Glad youre bringing awareness to this. I too am disappointed they got rid of their charging team when i was expecting things like this to improve drastically...i want road trips to get a lot better for my tesla vs just being a great local vehicle in Idaho

@TB-up4xi

Ай бұрын

The charging team was not responsible for rate of charge which is a limitation of the car not the charger.

@badbasic

Ай бұрын

I just don't get people who think this is too slow, I just did a 2400 km road trip in Europe with my 2024 RWD M3, I never felt limited by charging time or the range, it was always wife's/kids bladder or hunger...

If new battery, they could had purposely derated charging and increase in software update after they have more data.

@abraxastulammo9940

Ай бұрын

Needs 800 V improvements 😅

@kruemelfelix

Ай бұрын

This is not a new battery. This is the LG battery Tesla uses since ages in Europe. It's just crap, low power output and low charging speed. That's why a lot of Europeans don't buy LR and P models as the LFPs are way better :D

@fields1

Ай бұрын

It’s not a new battery. Identical to the battery already used in older Model 3s from the last year or so in the US and longer in Europe.

Okay so I am looking at my own numbers, 80 MPH speeds I am achieving 281 wh/mi on the LR AWD highland. So 44% of the pack would net ~123 miles of total range in similar conditions. Note I have the aero wheels.

Based on this test idk why you would pick this car over the rwd unless you want the speed or the awd.

Chill mode may be more efficient than sport (or beyond) because it won't have to keep the battery warmer (cooler) for optimal performance. May not matter unless it's very cold though.

@ouch1011

Ай бұрын

Maybe on a M3P but not on a LR. Tesla doesn’t heat the battery to maintain baseline performance, my 22 M3LR routinely throttles performance in cold temps.

@Sadjina

Ай бұрын

@@ouch1011 ah right, that could be the case, yes. Thanks! 👍

Performance will do 255 from 10 to likely 38% I have the same Panasonic's and I love them for road tripping, even when pulling a small tent trailer.

Doesn't the old M3 RWD weigh less? So therefore more effecient? If long range versions have more weight because of the extra motor and bigger battery, then the LR has more weight it needs to move? Just a guess! :)

@GraysonCarr

Ай бұрын

Not much less… only about 200 lbs. But I think extra motor up front makes it a bit less efficient as well.

It's a pretty unequal test if you are pre-conditioning, many cars don't have this feature at all so they end up going further but would end up at the next charger with a theoretically poorer charging performance. The only way to get like for like would be to turn off pre-conditioning for all cars, that way they end up in the same charging condition.

Is it LFP?

Tesla Model 3 RWD LFP (2023) did better at 106 miles! That is why this is one of the best road trip tests.

I am down on Tesla right now. Tainted. P.S. Love my Out of Spec t-shirt!

This is one I’ve been waiting for,still no Matrix headlights in the US?,thanks guys ,cheers Andy 👍💪😉

@KyleConner

Ай бұрын

Thanks for watching!

@BillyONeal

Ай бұрын

Has the regulation prohibiting them changed?

@alancobbin

Ай бұрын

@@BillyONealnot sure as I’m in Europe

Magic dock is very apple style naming from tesla lol

I love all the changes in the new 3. Hopefully, Tesla does everything the same for a new Y!!