The whole world is God's holy Land

@dougbell9543

8 ай бұрын

Absolutely! ✔️

@saved217

7 ай бұрын

Not true. God created the universe, and all in it, but only Israel , is the Holy land.

@thecomingstorm9327

4 ай бұрын

mosheotm While it is true that God made the whole world including the land. The term "holy land" only referrers to the land God gave to the offspring of Jacob. Zechariah 2:12 And the Lord shall inherit *Judah his portion* *in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again*

@saenzperspectives

3 ай бұрын

“The woman *said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.” Jesus *said to her, “Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”” ‭‭John‬ ‭4‬:‭19‬-‭24‬ ‭ “But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.” That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭9‬:‭6‬-‭8‬ ‭ “For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭10‬:‭11‬-‭13‬ ‭ “So Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I observe that you are very religious in all respects. For while I was passing through and examining the objects of your worship, I also found an altar with this inscription, ‘TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.’ Therefore what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you. The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.’ Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man. Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”” ‭‭Acts‬ ‭17‬:‭22‬-‭31‬ ““And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write, ‘These things says He who is holy, He who is true, “He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens”: “I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name. Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie-indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you. Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’” ‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3‬:‭7‬-‭13‬ ‭

How wonderful it is to hear a sane person talking about Israel!

I would love to hear Dr. Wright teach on the "Americanisms" that is not bliblical.

@PatricksLesson

8 ай бұрын

Well dispensationalism is one and any of the other millennial churches.

@gayleliman3423

4 ай бұрын

Oh please!

Listening to Tom Wright is like a wonderful breath of fresh air. ✔️

@TaketheKreytrain

8 ай бұрын

It's such a relief that I don't have to disagree with Tom, he's one of my favorite theologians

Israel is good at PR. Follow the word of God, not Israel.

@christianfrommuslim

7 ай бұрын

precisely! Part of the problem with CZ is the compulsion to approve of everything that Israel does, out of fear of Genesis 12:3 and being on the wrong side of prophecy. Rather that blanket approval, we should not play favorites. We should judge objectively (Deuteronomy 1:16,17 & John 7:24). Christians should listen to the reality check of Palestinian Christians rather than simply accept what Israeli lobbyists tell them.

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,

@keitth58

2 ай бұрын

The entire Old Testament narrative is about Israel trying to authenticate the claim that Israel was God's chosen people.But in Jesus we are all God's chosen people

@roseschmidt2478

25 күн бұрын

​Amen!

Full Video: kzread.info/dash/bejne/oqim1cZsmK2-fsY.html

Even when it is right before his eyes, he shrugs it off.

He's wrong in assuming that it's an American problem. There are so many around the world blindly worshiping the idol of Judaism.

@ltjeyachandran7790

3 жыл бұрын

Because of the influence of American Christianity on the rest of the world

@alexish7145

3 жыл бұрын

@@ltjeyachandran7790 exactly

@alamamia1

9 ай бұрын

We can thank the conditions in the Middle East today in large part to the British. Seriously. Look at the American model. We called for an "Independent Constantinople," "Mesopotamia," "Kurdistan," and other places. The map we now have today? A relic of British Imperialism. There is no national history of Jordan, Iraq, etc. Further, the British carved National boundaries along ethnic lines. Look at Iraq. The Shi'ites overwhelmingly represent the Baghdad and NE parts. So, for Wright (a man I respect for his commentaries) to make such a rhetorical cop-out like this is cruel and irresponsible. And it isn't just American Dispensationalism. Consider who helped found America. Plymouth Rock, anyone? The persecuted. So, there is a political similarity here. No, I am not Protestant. I'm an Orthodox Christian. And I think this problem is a religious one. Mohammadanism was established in Israel / Palestine to subjugate Jews and Christians. If there were no Al Aqsa Mosque, there would be no issue here. Look at it this way: consider Hagia Sophia. What if an armed revolt occurred in Turkey to retake Byzantium? Did the Greeks build it? Yes. ...but the Turks and Arabs slaughtered our people. And when promised safe passage out, they killed us again. How many Saints of Blessed Memory suffered at the hands of their Muslim captors? Many. Islam spread by the sword. I will not forget. Every Christian in the Middle East and Subcontinent suffers under the tyranny of Islamic Blasphemy Laws. Hear the Voice of the Martyrs. I stand with Israel. And I stand with the persecuted Church. May the world see Mohammadanism's evil and wake up before it is too late.

@dynamicloveministries334

9 ай бұрын

​@@ltjeyachandran7790yep!!!

@RisenShine-zy7dn

9 ай бұрын

"All things work together for good, who are the called according to His purpose." Romans 8:28 God is still on the throne and wills for to bring about the last day, the day of fire upon the earth and the day of resurrection and judgment of all. There are no special people favorites today and I don't think that last day is soooo far off, I don't know but ..... 'For when they shall say peace and safety, then sudden destruction comes upon them.... 1 Thessalonians 5:2-11 God is still in control and Jesus is still on the throne. Take comfort knowing this.

Thank you NT!

I know he is correct because as someone who’s been indoctrinated in the dispensationalist “world” view, the Lord Himself revealed to me through His Word that 1948 was a great thing for Jewish nationalists but it had nothing to do g to do with biblical prophecy. I am undone by God’s faithfulness!

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,

@roseschmidt2478

25 күн бұрын

Me too!

I love Tom's extended exasperated sigh

Thank-you Mr Wright.

Amen and amen!

I wish he would have used some scriptural references that quite convincingly refute Zionism, for example Galatians 3:29, Galatians 4:21-31, I Peter 2:4-10.

@christianfrommuslim

7 ай бұрын

Good. Thank you. I also think the weight of scripture falls the other direction. Part of the problem with CZ is the compulsion to approve of everything that Israel does, out of fear of Genesis 12:3 and being on the wrong side of prophecy. Rather that blanket approval, we should not play favorites. We should judge objectively (Deuteronomy 1:16,17 & John 7:24). Christians should listen to the reality check of Palestinian Christians rather than simply accept what Israeli lobbyists tell them.

@phillipsugwas

5 ай бұрын

One only has to read the " pro Israel" views expressed here to know that they miss the mark in every respect. Its so demeaning of the glory of Gods redemptive plan for his creation. If the whole World is not to be "Gods land", then please tell me what kind of a gospel exists at all? Its no better than the drivel on offer from the Witnesses.? Darby , Scofield, cessationists", christian brethren" , and the ultimate gnostic package of dispensationalism! No wonder the Christians outside of the USA shake their heads sadly at this cul de sac of thought and theology and actions? Christians have more in common with Arab Palestinian Christians than any Jews. And there is nothing in scripture that sees any physical state as central to the parousia. If you dont " get" the Kingdom - you don't " get" it.

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,

It's been exported to the Netherlands also, for many years

And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I believed it strongly till Michael Heiser's teaching made me unsure. I wish these 2 would have a dialogue about that issue!

@michaelglass9604

2 жыл бұрын

I am curious as to what MH said that made you unsure? or maybe direct me to where MH is discussing the topic?

@rocketmanshawn

Жыл бұрын

​@@michaelglass9604he said that scripture doesn't teach that a 3rd temple will be built, and correctly so.

@DanteInfernski22

8 ай бұрын

Heiser rejected supersessionism (replacement theology).

@EnriqueRivera-sz2ph

4 ай бұрын

NT Wright also rejects replacement theology. The Church has not “replaced” Israel. True Israel simply expanded its borders to include the Gentiles. The Church is, and always has been the true Israel. No replacement necessary.

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,

It bothers me when Christians bite their tongues on this issue.

For me the holy land it's the body of Christ, we are God temple.

@christianfrommuslim

7 ай бұрын

Yes. Galatians 4.

This gentleman got it all wrong. He should study the prophecies still to be fulfilled concerning Israel.

@maejohannsebastian7142

3 ай бұрын

And we will see the rest of the still unfulfilled prophecies being fulfilled in the near future.

@tres-adames

3 ай бұрын

This is way over your head, bro

@normandofontoura8829

3 ай бұрын

@@tres-adames Why?

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,

@goyonman9655

3 ай бұрын

​@@normandofontoura8829 You've been brainwashed by 19'th century jews

With all due respect I think Dr. Wright is wrong on his thesis implying that the land does not still belong to Israel. Often people will make arguments along these lines: #1 First 'Olam/everlasting doesn't actually mean forever.' I disagree, when you look at the meaning of the Word Olam the Psalm's even describes God as an Olam(everlasting) other meanings are permanent, continual, perpetual. Even if the word doesn't mean eternity there is no indication that the promise to Abraham in 17:8 ever had a time stamp on it. The promise of the land being an everlasting possession to Abrahams descendants is reiterated numerous times to the Israelites after him. #2 'The land was always conditional on their obedience.' There is a lot of truth to this statement when we read the Bible because we see them expelled from the land when they are disobedient, however this is not the full picture. The Mosiac covenant had blessings and curses for the obedience or disobedience of the people of Israel, however this did not undo the Abrahamic covenant that the land would be promised to his descendants as an everlasting possession. Also Ezekiel states that the Lord returning them from the land is actually NOT because of ISRAELS OBEDIENCE but for the sake of THE LORDS HOLY NAME. (Ezekiel 11:14-20, 20:39-44, 36:16-38) One example: 22 “Therefore say to the Israelites, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: It is not for your sake, people of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. 23 I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord, declares the Sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes." Ezekiel 36:22-23 The whole book of Ezekiel could essentially be a promise of punishment for disobedience but a promise of restoration and an eternal restoration for the sake of Gods name in being faithful to his Covenant. #3 that the return is talking about the return from Babylon. Once again I think there is truth in this statement but it is not the full picture. Old Testament and End times prophecies can be difficult to decipher because some fulfillments are in immediate future and some are in distant future. The reason I believe this doesn't pertain to only the return of Babylon is because there are many end times statements and or things that have not happened yet such as God putting a "new spirit in them" (Ezekiel 36). Jeremiah talks about the Lord "destroying the nations I scatter you to" that clearly hasn't happened yet either. Another place in Ezekiel 36:15 mentions that Israel will no longer hear the taunts of the nations anymore...that also is yet to be fulfilled. There are numerous others that indicate there will be a future return where the Israelites will never be uprooted again and God will set up his kingdom fully upon the earth. #4 Lastly, he says that Christ has come to fulfill the law and therefore it is all about Christ and his kingdom not land, the whole world is God's Holy Land. I fully agree that the primary focus of the church is the promotion of the Gospel and his kingdom in all things. However that being said, God can do more than one thing. He can fulfill his promise to Abraham by making his descendants a blessing to all nations because salvation comes from the Jews, while also fulfilling his promise that the land is an "everlasting possession to his descendants." Isaiah 49:6 says: he says: “It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.” This is all true and good news but just because God's salvation goes beyond the Jewish people to the ends of the earth does not mean that his promises to them are undone because he did something greater than they could imagine. Romans 11:28-29 states "As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable." God's call on Israel is irrevocable! Jeremiah 31:35-36 says This is what the Lord says, he who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar- the Lord Almighty is his name: 36 “Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,” declares the Lord, “will Israel ever cease being a nation before me.” To summarize, we undoubtedly need to show Christ love to both Jew and Palestinian, for let's remember Jesus first revealed himself as Messiah to a Samaritan woman who was considered immoral. God's love is far greater than we can imagine. That being said let's not disregard God's promises to the people of Israel. This does not condone every governmental action, but let's be aware that the enemy has real plan to try to destroy the people of Israel and is actively working and trying to deceive people in order to do so.

I respect Tom on many different issues. But not this one. He straw-mans so much its embarrassing. I don't know of a single Christian group that says Paul predicts the return of the Jews in Romans 11. That he would appeal to "New Yorker fact checkers" is shocking in itself. He further straw mans by suggesting CZ's are "Israel right or wrong" in their approach. And CZ's have more appreciation for the Jewishness of scripture and of the Messiah than probably any other group on earth. It's just such a bad take about CZ as a movement. I have heard major CZ groups say Israel is not a "Holy Land" because there is little holiness in it; instead, they say Israel exists because God is faithful to his own word. They would not deny that the whole world is God's "holy land"--which is a modern, extra biblical term anyway. They do not idolize Israeli Jews. I say this as someone who wrote a sociological PhD dissertation that has been cited by scholars many times on the subject of modern Christian Zionism and has published in a number of scholarly works. And I echo others: he could not be more wrong about CZ being a global phenomenon. He's just wrong at every turn. Furthermore, I am a graduate of Fuller Seminary and I no longer consider it "evangelical" since Labberton's appointment. It has been wokefied.

@martharice9698

9 ай бұрын

Thanks, Matt, for these specific comments and the mention of your dissertation. I found a copy of it at digitalcollections.drew.edu/UniversityArchives/ThesesAndDissertations/THEO/PhD/2014/Westbrook/openaccess/MWestbrook.pdf I also have respect for Tom (N.T.) Wright's scholarship and commentaries. Glad to have your dissertation to read.

@edeancozzens3833

8 ай бұрын

I have seen a lot of Christian Zionists. Have you ever attended one of Hagee's Nights to Honor Israel? Pure idolatry. Sickening. Jesus is barely mentioned. Total kissing butt of the fruitless, Christ-rejecting fig tree that Jesus cursed. Jesus did say that it would again put on leaves, which it has, but that it would never bear fruit for God which it clearly does not. The current Jerusalem is Hagar which must be cast out and I do believe the the true God of the Bible is zealous to get that done and I agree. What a terrible disgrace to His good Name and through them God's good name is blasphemed in the world (Romans 2).

@christianfrommuslim

7 ай бұрын

Part of the problem with CZ is the compulsion to approve of everything that Israel does, out of fear of Genesis 12:3 and being on the wrong side of prophecy. Rather that blanket approval, we should not play favorites. We should judge objectively (Deuteronomy 1:16,17 & John 7:24). Christians should listen to the reality check of Palestinian Christians rather than simply accept what Israeli lobbyists tell them.

@MattWestbrook

7 ай бұрын

@@christianfrommuslim Thank you for your honest and thoughtful response. I do agree with you that there are CZ organization's that seem to fit the description you provide here. I'm thinking of John Hagee's Christians United for Israel, for instance (though, honestly, I think it has way more to do with Hagee himself that this caricature fits). Then there are other CZ groups, like the ICEJ, which do have longstanding relationships with Arab Israelis and with Christian Arabs on the ground in Israel. They also do not approve of everything Israel does--they are still conservative Christians, after all, so they remain opposed to abortion and sexual immorality, and were very vocal to the recent proposals by the Tourism Minister to revoke work visas for groups like their own. Is it possible they simply disagree with some of the claims of Arab Christians? The real difficulty is the ethnic component, rather than the religious component, which seems to drive more of the respective worldviews of each side. As someone who has done advanced academic work on the subject for 13 years, the religious component often seems a secondary influence, one that gets appended on to a claim for justification purposes. Again, thanks for the comment.

@jeremiah7491

7 ай бұрын

Brother you have so much more to learn. May I introduce you to the Bible Project podcasts.

Portuguese?

I'm 'on the fence' regarding the reformed nation of Israel. What about Rev 12?

@christianfrommuslim

7 ай бұрын

Part of the problem with CZ is the compulsion to approve of everything that Israel does, out of fear of Genesis 12:3 and being on the wrong side of prophecy. Rather that blanket approval, we should not play favorites. We should judge objectively (Deuteronomy 1:16,17 & John 7:24). Christians should listen to the reality check of Palestinian Christians rather than simply accept what Israeli lobbyists tell them.

@SpotterVideo

5 ай бұрын

Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation: (book not in chronological order ) Christ returns one time in the future. However, there are several different visions of His return shown from different perspectives in the Book of Revelation. Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse. Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb. Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present? The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ. He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18. The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15. The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13. He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet? He comes on a horse in chapter 19, right after the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. Chapter 20? Does He come with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1? (The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.) There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46. Why does an angel come down from heaven with a key to unlock the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2, if the pit was not already locked before that time? Are there wicked angels in the pit in Rev. 9:11? If the beast "ascends" from the pit in Rev. chapter 11, where was the beast before that time? Does your view agree with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness? Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels were previously bound in some manner. Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book. The principle of "Recapitulation" means there are multiple visions of His return.

@ProveAllThings1Th-5-21

4 ай бұрын

These two playlist series should answer all your questions: kzread.info/head/PLtzt3JhaK2U6eSPTq0d07GqFpJDclldyT kzread.info/head/PLtzt3JhaK2U4VpSIZGrVKjGC-nmyj7zHn

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,

He’s right-there’s always has been one covenant. That’s what Zionism pushes, is the idea there can be two covenants.

Therefore declare that this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘I will gather you from the peoples and assemble you from the countries to which you have been scattered, and I will give back to you the land of Israel.’ It has happened has it not? In the most improbable fashion, after the Holocaust, Israel almost still born as Arab armies invaded. Victory in wars against overwhelming odds. Come on people believe your eyes.

@christianfrommuslim

7 ай бұрын

Repentance was the condition. That did not happen this time.

@TroyStevens430

7 ай бұрын

Read Galatians 3 to find out who the Israelites are.

@jennyyates8798

7 ай бұрын

@@christianfrommuslim Read Ezekiel 34, 36 and 37. Note all the 'I will's' - the things God promises to do for his people. He has brought them back to their land in an un-repentant state for the honour of his name. New spiritual life will follow as God pours out his Spirit on them, chap.37. That's beginning to happen as more and more Jews recognise Yeshua as their Messiah, and I believe it will increase dramatically very soon.

@christianfrommuslim

7 ай бұрын

@@jennyyates8798 I am very familiar with these verses, and was Zionist for decades.

@andrewplater1782

7 ай бұрын

Ezekiel 36 and 37 are being fulfilled in our lifetimes yet it is amazing how many Christians cannot see it because of some Biblical framework that governs how they read and understand the Bible.

The Jewish people in the first century already had their gathering. The stick of Joseph first, September 11, AD66, then the stick of Judah, April 11, AD70. The two became one stick for 1260 days, from April 11, AD70 to September 22, AD73. This was already fulfilled. The state of Israel today, have only some who are Jew by belief, but not by blood. Jesus meant what He said, when He said the house of Israel will be left desolate. Their last day was on their last day of their gathering, in AD73, a few years after the temple was destroyed.

@user-kl3vd4ov9r

8 ай бұрын

No way.. the book or Revelation tells that the 'woman' (Israel) will fled and stay in the wilderness for 1260 days (may mean 1260 years).. and that the holy city will be trampled for 42 months. That means, the feeling of Israel will be temporary and not permanent/forever, and it will happen after 90AD, because that's when the book was written: Re 11:2 but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months. Re 12:6 and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days. If you go back 1260 years from 1948, you'll get to 688 AD.. that's when the Dome of the Rock was established, symbolizing Islamic occupation of the Holy Land.. and if you know what's written on this building you'll know that these are blasphemous words against Lord Jesus Christ: Re 13:5 And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. And if you go 42 months from 688 AD (42 x 30.44), you'll get to 1967, exactly when the holy city was recaptured by Israel! Benjamin Netanyahu said that Islamic occupation of the holy land is different from that by other powers before it. It really totally exiled Israel.. desolated the land. Why? Because, Islam is the 'beast' of revelation who hunted the woman and her offsprings, the Christians: Rev 12: 15 The serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with a flood. 16 But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth. 17 Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

@josephbrown6906

8 ай бұрын

Where do you get this from? What's your source?

@soteriology400

8 ай бұрын

@@josephbrown6906The Bible and history written by Josephus. The two were merged together as well as examining geographical evidence.

@user-kl3vd4ov9r

8 ай бұрын

@@soteriology400 Jesus said this: Lu 21:24 They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, *until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.* Jerusalem will be trampled by the Gentiles NOT FOREVER, but until a certain time only. That mean, Israel will come back to posses the city. He also said: Lu 13:35 Behold, your house is forsaken. And I tell you, you will not see me *until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!’”* (Also Matthew 23:38-39) He will return only when the Jews are back and ready to welcome Him. Also read Jeremiah 31: 35 Thus says the LORD, who gives the sun for light by day and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar- the LORD of hosts is his name: 36 *“If this fixed order departs* *from before me, declares the LORD,* *then shall the offspring of Israel cease* *from being a nation before me* *forever.”* 37 Thus says the LORD: “If the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth below can be explored, then I will cast off all the offspring of Israel for all that they have done, declares the LORD.” Israel will ALWAYS be a nation before the LORD. He says that He will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah (Jer 31:31). They have not accepted it, so He will make them accept it one day. When the LORD declares something, He will make it happen.

@soteriology400

8 ай бұрын

@@user-kl3vd4ov9r I am sorry, but the text says nothing about Israel regaining possession of the city (remember what Jesus told them in Matthew 19:29), so they left, never came back, and inherited everlasting life. Jerusalem was trampled by the Gentiles for 42 months, from February of AD67 (order by Nero to destroy the temple and Jerusalem) to August 31, AD70 (when it was officially taken over by the Gentiles per Josephus). They (stick of Judah, per Ezekiel 37) fled on April 10, AD70 (their prayer was answered per Matthew 24:20) and fled to their gathering to join the stick of Joseph (per Ezekiel 37) who were already there and prepared a place for them (they became one stick). 1260 days later per revelation 12:6, which brings us to the time, times and half a time to Tishri 5 (day 5 out of 10 since it was only half a time), of AD73 or September 22 of AD73. That last day, 1 Thessalonians 4, and John 6:44 was fulfilled with the house of Israel who came to Christ. They did accept it, but remember what Paul said, not all of Israel is of Israel. Only 1/3 were of true Israel, per Zechariah 13:8-9.

So it's just a coincidence that Israel is back in the land and the whole world is focused on Jerusalem just like Zechariah said it would? I strongly disagree with NT Wright

@edeancozzens3833

8 ай бұрын

No it is not a coincidence. Jesus said that old cursed fig tree would again put on leaves and it has. But Jesus went on to say that it would never bear fruit for God ever again, so don't be expecting that it will. See Luke 19:27 for what I think is really going on and what will really happen to the same sort of people who rejected Jesus in the first century. I think that 70 A.D. Part B is about to happen to fulfill Jeremiah 19:11

@JonJaeden

8 ай бұрын

Those crafty Jews must have outsmarted God.

@WorshipinIdols

3 ай бұрын

A total coincidence that Zion is a stumbling block for all of the enemies of God’s. What a lucky set of events I guess.

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,

N. T. Wright correct on this. Matthew 21:33-44

The problem Tom has is he equates the Christian Zionism as from Romans 11..The picture is much bigger.. when you look at the Old Testament passages in their own context the amazing things that have occurred since 1948 appear to be a fulfillment.. I think one needs to be blind not to see. It could validly be raised, did Paul and the early church misread those scriptures as the independent Israel (not under any exile or foreign governments) does challenge things. I believe what happened is Paul wasn't interpreting the Old Testament but using passages for his own purposes in his context.. guided by the Spirit of course. But the OT stands in its own right as the word of god and I cannot see Moses or the writers of the Torah intending a spiritualized return. I think NT Wright need to read John Walton on the lost world of the Torah for how the New Testament writers cannot be taken as interpreters of the Old Testament in it's context. Two different contexts.

@dynamicloveministries334

9 ай бұрын

Wright Co wrote books with walton.

@edeancozzens3833

8 ай бұрын

There are other ways to interpret events. I suggest you read some of the writings of Dr. Stephen Jones such as s1) Who is a Jew, 2) Who is an Israelite, 3) Daniel's Seventy Weeks and most importantly 4) The Struggle for the Birthright. All can be read online at no charge or ordered in print at GodsKingdom period organization.

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,,

So how Wright take "Pray for the peace of Jerusalem?" And all the other references to Zion and Jerusalem in the OT? If we live in Houston, we are to pray for the peace of Jerusalem?

@christianfrommuslim

7 ай бұрын

Galatians tells us Christians are from the New Jerusalem. We love everyone. We pray for the peace of the world. Part of the problem with CZ is the compulsion to approve of everything that Israel does, out of fear of Genesis 12:3 and being on the wrong side of prophecy. Rather that blanket approval, we should not play favorites. We should judge objectively (Deuteronomy 1:16,17 & John 7:24). Christians should listen to the reality check of Palestinian Christians rather than simply accept what Israeli lobbyists tell them.

@johnpinckney7269

7 ай бұрын

@@christianfrommuslim We bless Israel because of Gen 12, in doing so we do not suspend our moral judgement.

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,

It's hilarious how so called Theologians use proof texts to argue that modern state of Israel has nothing to do with biblical prophesy. Never once heard anyone actually make a full reasoned argument from scripture and provide context.

@Valhalla369

8 ай бұрын

Exactly! Same observation here!

@christianfrommuslim

7 ай бұрын

Return was to be conditional on repentance. Part of the problem with CZ is the compulsion to approve of everything that Israel does, out of fear of Genesis 12:3 and being on the wrong side of prophecy. Rather that blanket approval, we should not play favorites. We should judge objectively (Deuteronomy 1:16,17 & John 7:24). Christians should listen to the reality check of Palestinian Christians rather than simply accept what Israeli lobbyists tell them.

@JazzATrain

5 ай бұрын

@@christianfrommuslim I am Israeli Christian. There are actually more of us than Palestinian Christians. And we don't fill our mind with bigotry and hate.

@christianfrommuslim

5 ай бұрын

@@JazzATrain If you are implying that I have hate, you are mistaken. As Christians, we are all one in Christ. Jews are not more special than other Christians. We should love everyone - Christian brethren, friends, and enemies. Psychologists tell us that "hurt people hurt people." We should be aware of this, pray against terrorism - and overreaction to it.

@JazzATrain

4 ай бұрын

@@christianfrommuslim Right. Christians are all one in Christ. So why focus solely on Palestinian Christians and ignore our Israeli Christian brothers and sisters??? My cousin Amir Khoury, was a beloved Israeli Christian who was brutally murdered by Palestinian Terrorists. True Christians should also listen to the reality check of Israeli Christians (like me) rather than simply accept what CAIR and the Arab lobby tell them!!! You are biased at very least.

The simple fact is that the people in the Middle East need to learn to get along. Every theologian/historian/scholar has an opinion about all the major doctrinal or theological issues. For instance, N.T. links all thoughts of escaping this world to Platonism but Jesus promised the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise that very day. What Christian does not long, at times, for an escape from this troubled world?

Nothing like making up nonsense position of your opponents and then refuting them. i have never heard this nonsense that there was a Christian messiah and an Israel messiah. And no one says Rn 11 predicts the Jews will return to the land but other passages do hint at it, (Ezek 11: 17 et al) say it will happen and then it happens before our eyes and we say God has nothing to do with it? He is not serious.

@christianfrommuslim

7 ай бұрын

Part of the problem with CZ is the compulsion to approve of everything that Israel does, out of fear of Genesis 12:3 and being on the wrong side of prophecy. Rather that blanket approval, we should not play favorites. We should judge objectively (Deuteronomy 1:16,17 & John 7:24). Christians should listen to the reality check of Palestinian Christians rather than simply accept what Israeli lobbyists tell them.

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,,

Does N.T. stand for Not True?

If God did not want the Jews back in the land He would of not allowed them.

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,

Matthew 23 v 37-39 makes no sense without a return of the Jews to Jerusalem. Why does it have to be either/or? Why cant it be yes and amen in Christ and also God keeping a literal promise to Abraham?

@stephenglasse2743

8 ай бұрын

and Act 1 'are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to israel?' 'It is not for you to know the times and the seasons' clearly imply a future fulfilment of the promises of a geographical-political-messianic state of Israel. why did the jewish believers continue to attend the temple and make sacrifices? why does return of christ depend upon national Jewish repentance Acts 3:19-21? NT Wright has made one truly great contribution: THE RESURRECTION OF THE SON OF GOD but that's it. Still, we must give him credit - that's more than most of us have done. Still none of this proves that the present state of israel is the fulfilment though of course it might come to be.

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,

Luke 21:22 read it closely. The destruction in AD 70 Fulfilled everything written. No fantasy of fururism, please. The Parousia is here.

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,

It is all about the Kingdom of Christ being established, not a piece of land in the middle east. All those verses point to Christ in the OT.

The greatest miracle of today is the excistance of the Jewish State of Israel against all odds and still stands because of Devine purpose and protection for the one and only Wise GOD and his name is Jesus amen.

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,,

NT Wright makes any number of weak straw man arguments. He, and the moderator, falsely assume that anyone who holds to the predicted re-establishment is necessarily dispensational in their eschatology. That is not the case for many. This has nothing to do with the current spiritual state of Israel. It has everything to do with God’s faithfulness to the Jewish people as conduits of His light to the nations. Yes that is Jesus, but Paul claimed the same calling for the Jewish believers in Acts 13. He will regather them in unbelief and then restore them spiritually. Ezekiel made that crystal clear.

Ezekiel 37:22 [22]And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: . . . We now look and long for the return of the King - Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews

@christianfrommuslim

7 ай бұрын

Galatians 4:24-31: Christians are of the Heavenly Jerusalem, not earthly.

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,

Exactly. I sometimes come close to feeling sorry for (usually American) Christian zionists, but then i remember what i hear them say about Palestinians. At this point im seeing that they're, in fact, very un-Christian. Im feeling more and more of a distance from them. By the way, Jesus loves Palestinians.

@maskofsorrow

4 ай бұрын

Totally agree with you.

@WorshipinIdols

3 ай бұрын

Yes! Jesus lives unrepentant genocidal murderers who dream of exterminating his own people by the flesh, who worship a false prophet and follow a false religion that plagiarized his own words and the words of his father before altering it to their own political benefit. And he def live the way they have persecuted him and the body of believes for 1300 years and continue to do so to this very day. Of ya! They are his favorite! Really! The Bible is riddled with prophecies about conquering Arabs that brutalize and oppress Christian’s and Jews.

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,,

Israel exists not because of their faithfulness to the covenants but rather by God's faithfulness alone. This should cause all people everywhere to repent. For His own name's sake and glory they have been given this witness. It then only proves His faithfulness not theirs.

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,

My study lead me to 3 conclusions: 1) This is not fulfilment of prophecy. I am glad jews have found a sense of safety in Israel but that is besides the point. 2) God’s propechy to return the Jews to the land was conditional. They never met the conditions 3) If you are Christian, God will gather the (righteous)Jews and the church(believe in his son and hear his words) due to his grace (favour) through his son. This will be to New Jerusalem which will descend from heaven (the sky), not by the hands of men.

@paulski73

7 ай бұрын

Conditional? Where do the scriptures say that?

@shauntempley9757

7 ай бұрын

The acceptance of Christ as their Messiah by Israel is one condition. That one has never been met by them. Jerusalem coming from the sky is the other one, after their punishment for his crucifixion is ended by their acceptance of Christ. Because they have never met that condition, accepting Christ, they are still under God's curse.@@paulski73

@daveweaver3907

6 ай бұрын

Hi Truthnotfeelimgs- First, if God permanently kicked the Jews out of the land, there would be absolutely no way that the Jews could overturn the judgement of God and return to the land. That's reality. Second, It is a theme throughout Scripture that Israel needs to be back in the land, in rebellion for the end time events to occur. Here’s is but a few of the verses. An O.T. overview of the end times is in Zechariah Ch. 12-14 with references to the book of Revelation. Israel is ground zero. None of that has happened in AD70 or any other time for obvious reasons if you read through those chapters. The battle of Armageddon takes place in Israel (Revelation 16:16). The commissioning of the 144,000 in Revelation 7 takes place on Mt. Zion, in Israel. The two witnesses who get killed in Revelation 11:8 takes place in a rebellious Jerusalem. The Second Coming takes place on the Mount of Olives in Israel (Zechariah 14:4, Revelation 1:7). Guess who will be living there? Probably not the Swedes. Here are a few O.T. passages that underscore Israel regathering in rebellion (Ezekiel 20:33-38, Ezekiel 22:17-22, Ezekiel 36:22-25, Zephaniah 2:1-2) To put it another way, the plan of God for the end times involves a non-believing, ethnic Israel in the land. Yes, there will be a New Jerusalem descending from heaven. But that does not cancel out earthly Jerusalem at the Second coming where there are numerous passages showing worship and praise in earthly Jerusalem just after the Second Coming. Isaiah chapters 62-66 have passages. Psalm 102:12-20 is a great example. I"m going to guess after reading the many references that the old Jerusalem will be there for more than a few months. I’m a big picture guy. I love it when you can sum up large themes with a few words. Psalm 102:15 sums it up. It says "for the Lord will rebuild Zion and appear in His glory". It doesn't get any more simple than that. Even though we can’t be entirely sure that this is the one rebellious Israel that goes through the Tribulation, there is nothing that disqualifies it. That's huge! The Arab wars intended to annihilate Israel are mere foreshadows of the Tribulation. I hope that helps. Blessings.

@thecomingstorm9327

4 ай бұрын

No the land promise was not conditional, it was a promise to Abraham and his descendants. When Israel would rebel God would have the land spew them out temporally, this has happened multiple times, but the children of Israel always came back eventually into the land after so many generations of the rebellious ones died. They are in the land now, but they are in rebellion once more, this will bring about the final tribulation period in God's final dealings with the judgment of Israel, the 3rd temple will be rebuilt by them at some point, they will accept a false messiah, the world worships this false messiah as the beast, and Israel for the first time realizes they rejected their true messiah and crucified him in 33 AD, Christ returns, destroys the Antichrist and his followers, the Jews rebellion comes to an end and they finally get right with God and accept Jesus as their messiah and the son of God. He rules 1,000 yeas on the earth, then Satan is released that was bound, Satan deceives an army of men, they came against the Jews to destroy them, God sends down fire from heaven and burns them to ash, the earth vanishes away and the Great white throne judgment begins. All the unsaved dead stand before Christ, are judged and cast into the lake of fire, God wipes away all tears from the saved gentile and Jewish believers eyes, death has been defeated, a new earth is made with a city called New Jerusalem and the Jewish and Gentile believers live on it and serve and worship the creator and his son.

@josephpchajek2685

4 ай бұрын

N.T. Wright's point wasn't that it was conditional, his point was that it was never a prophecy to begin with. They will return to the kingdom and to Jerusalem, but the new Jerusalem is not the old land of Israel.

Most Christians don’t see the ending because they’re blinded by the present. After the establishment of Christ’s long prophecized Kingdom on Earth, this present Earth and present Heaven will pass away. That means wars over property (e.g. Palestinians and Jews killing each other a tiny parcel of land in the Middle East) will all be for naught. Matthew 6:9 Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name; thy kingdom come; thy will be done; on earth as it is in heaven. Revelation 21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Abraham was a sojourner in this evil world yet many of us Christians own property. Hebrews 11:10 for he (Abraham) was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God.

God has a chosen people and gentiles and now Jesus came to replace the old laws so that all of mankind could be saved. Its not hard to understand. Also modern Israel is false doctrine and its important to understand this even as a gentile because when we see evil occurring out of the state of Israel today, you need discernment or youll fall and support the whicked and God hates all evil.

i agree with what he said. furthermore, what the zionists did and portray is not how prophecy works. the messiah did not return and lead them there. furthermore, you cant force prophecy, it comes to pass and youre caught up in it not knowing that youre fulfilling it. theres a solid example of this in the prophecy jesus gave to peter and how it played out in mathew 26.

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,,

N.T. Wright, you are so wrong.

How many innocent people have to die for silly prophecies to be fulfilled?

@saved217

7 ай бұрын

None, because prophecey isn't silly.

@IosifStalin2

7 ай бұрын

@@saved217 but silly is prophecy

@saved217

7 ай бұрын

@@IosifStalin2 How did you come to that conclusion?

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,,

Romans 8 is about the whole world is GOD holy land, Well um i believe that sin will be off this earth one day, however I don't see anything in Romans 8 that shows that the whole world is GOD holy land. I see Romans 8 talking about people being changed and living in THE SPIRIT and these things, also a few verses about the creation but i surely don't see anything about the whole world is THE HOLY LAND as in like Jerusalem or Israel would be considered in scripture. Anyone please show me this in Romans 8 if iv'e missed it.

Well everyone read Romans 11 and see what you think it says. It definitely is talking about a future restoration of Israel to God.

I do not worship Israel or the Jews but I do believe God has a purpose for Israel in the end times because I believe The Word of God. It’s in plain sight all the way through the bible for those who seek truth. I am also fully aware of Israel’s flaws and its very secular state BUT GOD is Sovereign and He has chosen Israel as a witness as this age comes to its close. Sorry N T. Only the Word of God is infallible and there are just to many references to this truth in Scripture.

It has been expiorted all over the world, Tom. It's rife in NZ as well. Don't you believe God has anything left to do with Israel now? Has the church replaced Israel completely?

@leoandolino4668

9 ай бұрын

The Church is Israel - Jews and Gentiles who belong to Christ. Gentiles were grafted in. There are no separated people, but both are one in Christ. Jews, like everyone else, have to enter the Church which is the Body of Christ on earth - His Kingdom. The Way is open to everyone who is willing -Jew and Gentile. It never changed. CI Scofield corrupted evangelicalism with his perverted and twisted study bible. Look up his life - very corrupt man with no real background in the Scriptures.

@leoandolino4668

9 ай бұрын

This perversion has so corrupted some... Televangelist John Hagee once stated to a newspaper reporter he didn't bother to evangelize Jews .. that they have their own way!!!! I remember once attending a prayer gathering of Jews and Christians in a large Baptist church, and in deference to the Jews, so as not to offend, no prayers were to be offered in the Name of Jesus!!! Never again, but I left Protestantism for the Orthodoxy - they would never even consider or support such wickedness.

@ORaddlyispissedoff

8 ай бұрын

Yes

@jadedrac0

8 ай бұрын

“Out of Israel I called my son.” Jesus is israel , he is the olive tree and the true vine. The church doesn’t replace Israel because the Church always was Israel for the church is Christs body. Paul makes it clear all righteous men throughout history are counted righteous through faith, not ethnicity not works. He also says “not all of Israel is of Israel.” For it is not by flesh that makes one a jew but those born of Gods spirit that makes one a jew . You are a true jew if you are grafted into Jesus. All the prophecies and promises concerning Israel in the Old Testament are promises for you dear christian.

@liquidh5226

8 ай бұрын

Actually, there are 2 issues here: 1. The land of Judea, as it has always been known since Roman times, who owns it? 2. The relationship between Jews and the Church?

I’m saddened to hear that NT Wright does not realise that the return of Israel in the 20th century was prophesied in both the OT (Tanakh) and NT. The prophets of the Divided Kingdom have much to say about the latter days, and Isaiah, Ezekiel and Daniel predicted that it would happen. In fact Daniel was told when as well. Jesus in Matthew 24 follows the pattern; the abomination of desolation of the Temple Mount with the buildings now there for 1,335 years, the Isaiah 63:1-6 prophecy of the liberation of Jerusalem in 1917 and the end of Israel’s tribulation a jubilee later in June 1967. 1967 is also the end of the 2,300 ‘evenings and mornings’ (calendar years) of the Daniel 8 prophecy, and since then we have seen the fulfilment of Daniel’s 1,290th year - and in the past months of 2024, the 1,335th (Daniel 12:12). So we have now arrived at Daniel’s last milestone and the beginning of the end, and yet those who get the most airtime are oblivious, it seems, to the prophetic timeline. Revelation tells the same story as Daniel, using exactly the same timeline and only slightly different imagery. Daniel 7 and Revelation 13 are both describing Israel’s tribulation and the gentile kingdoms which occupied their Land. The 666 Beast / Antichrist appears at the midpoint and is easily identified by history. Wake up you spokespersons of the Faith !!!!

@davidh.7138

Ай бұрын

‘Seven Times: Egypt to Istanbul’

Does Wright even have a clue as to what God's intentions are? He talks so fast he sounds more like an auctioneer than a minister.

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,,

Jesus said his faith will always be "Israel centered". Wrights position is neo higher criticism academic teaching influenced by the 18th century German re interpretive theology..

@christianfrommuslim

7 ай бұрын

Where did Jesus say that?

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,,

No one says we must support Israel's right of wrong. What does that even mean? But we should support Israel because God is working out his plan there.

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,,

Replacement theology in full view.

He is so wrong, because if God gave up on HIS gifts and promises and everlasting covenant with his chosen remnant of Israel --- HE would give up his promises to believers today ---- we are no better than the people of Israel back when God was blessing them

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,

Romans 11? What about Ezekiel 38. I could never listen to anyone that throws away the unfulfilled messianic prophesies in one swoop

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,,

Sir you are completely wrong on many biblical issues.Ask the Holy Spirit to enlighten you.

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,,

Surely its a load of bollocs

American dispensationalism

@tunglam8210

3 жыл бұрын

I used to believe in Dispensationalism and few years later discovered it a heresy. It needs to die.

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,,

Disagree.

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,,

Rip Paul out of your bible

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,,

This teaching -that the modern state of Israel is the fulfilment of Biblical prophecy- is very common amongst evangelicals in Germany.

@kenwoodburn7438

8 ай бұрын

Scofield indoctrination funded by ..... Zionists.

The modern state of Israel is the Jewish equivalent to ideas like Pan-Slavism, Pan-Germanism, etc.

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,,

NT is utterly mistaken on this matter, as he is on so many other biblical historical matters.

I have an affinity for Hebrews everywhere - in the modern political state of Israel or anywhere else in the world. I’m not Hebrew and I don’t follow the traditions of Judaism but I consider the faith of Jesus to be the true continuation of the faith of the Hebrew patriarchs so I..... Avoid work for wages or any strenuous activity on the biblical sabbath (except when performing essential services - hospital work, for example, and even then only essential services and only every other sabbath) Conform to biblical dietary instructions (no pork, shellfish, etc.). Believe the God of Abraham gave the law to Moses at Sinai. Believe the God of Abraham doesn’t cause evil in the world but that he allows it in order to allow Satan to demonstrate the falsehood of his (Satan’s) accusations against him (the creator). (See the book of Job.) Expect the resurrection of true believers to live with the Messiah. (Not all Hebrews believe this but the majority of observant Hebrews do.) Use the word, “Israeli”, to refer to a citizen of the modern political nation of Israel, regardless of whether that person is Hebrew. Consider a person to be truly an “Israelite” or “Jewish” who has the faith of Abraham, regardless of whether that person is Hebrew. Believe Hebrews who study their own Hebrew Bibles for themselves (instead of depending on rabbinical interpretations of it) are more likely than non-Hebrews to realize Jesus of Nazareth is the true Messiah. I don’t customarily..... Light sabbath candles or recite scripture Friday evening. Light Hanukkah candles. Hebrews who followed Jesus' instructions were able to escape Jerusalem during the siege of A.D. 70: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place,..... Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. - Matthew 24:15-18 Jesus also instructed his followers to love their enemies, going so far as to suggest that the Roman soldiers in Judea be treated with kindness. If a supermajority (or maybe even a majority) of the Hebrews in Judea had followed his instruction, do you think the great “Jewish” revolt would ever have happened? Do you think the temple and much of the city of Jerusalem could have been spared? Two thousand years ago, most of the Hebrews were looking for a political messiah - which is why they rejected him who said, “My kingdom is not of this world.” I hope the majority of Hebrews in the twenty-first century will follow Jesus’ instruction: Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. - Matthew 24:23-27 I hope the Hebrews in the modern political state of Israel will follow Jesus’ instruction but I fear that SOME professed Christians are encouraging them to expect a political messiah. Which could easily lead to a tragedy similar to the one in A.D. 70. Or worse.

@Michael-pn5lp

3 ай бұрын

Christian Zionism is the tool used by the Edomite State of 'Israel' to brainwash Christians. Edom has stolen His land, as the Bible prophesied ! "a tenth part" = 10% The Bible says that only 10% of the Southern Kingdom "Jews" would not be deported by the Assyrians. Jerusalem itself was that 10% - the other 90% disappeared into history along with the 90% of the Northern Kingdom. Where are these "lost" 90% of combined Israel to be found today ? The remnant 10% of Jerusalem "Jews" later went into Babylonian captivity for 70 years, and then returned to Jerusalem. At the time of Christ, Galilee had the 10% remnant of the divorced Northern Kingdom of Israel, and Jerusalem surrounds had the 10% remnant of the still married Judah. The overwhelming population of Palestine were of Edomite and other non-Israelite people. These two 10% remnants of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel, and the two 90% portions of "lost"/"dispersed" Israel - these "two sticks" have long since been joined into one "Christian" stick in His hand - as prophesied ! "‭So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19) “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30:7-9) “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 1:18) Soon, after being burnt out of the West, the Edomite State of 'Israel' will persecute the Christian minority within Jerusalem, as prophesied in the Bible, and then Edom will unite the East in a military invasion of the West. The Bible prophesies that when approaching the terrified West, they are suddenly startled by a supernatural threat rising up from the very land of Edom itself, and turn south to meet in the battle of Armageddon.,,

Gabriel prophesied to Mary in Luke 1:32-33 that Jesus, his future Son, will be: 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, 33 and *he will reign over the house of Jacob forever,* and of his kingdom there will be no end.” That, HAS NOT happened.. it has not been fulfilled.. that's why Zionism is working.. that is the hands of God working through the body of Christ (the Christian Zionists). Israel needs to return because Lord Jesus Christ, their King, will rule over them there.. from Jerusalem! That is also why Satan is working very hard against that cause through his satanic islamists... if there is no more Jews, how can this prophecy be fulfilled? If the land is occupied by Muslims instead of Israel, how can the King of Israel rule from there??? That's what Satan wants to achieve...

NT Wright misses the mark here badly imo. I used to largely agree with him but I really can't anymore.

@robsunners

10 ай бұрын

1 Cor 1:20 and Galatians 3 would agree with him. If you support the dispensational ideas of Israel, you deny the victory of Christ. He has fulfilled the promises, and we are one new man (see Ephesians 2) in Him.

@protochris9260

8 ай бұрын

@@robsunners Yes, but Paul speaks of us being "grafted" into Israel, not created as a new tree or branch. The early Jewish Christians for example did not stop observing Sabbath. The fulfillment of Christ does not negate his blessings upon Israel.

@edeancozzens3833

8 ай бұрын

Amen. @@robsunners

@robertcain3426

8 ай бұрын

​​​@@protochris9260Yes, but Paul used that allegory about being 'grafted in' merely to make a point. In Eph 2:15, Paul says that through the Messiah, God has created one new man in the place of the two, Jew and Gentile, reconciling both to God in one body through the cross. So that there is no longer Jew or Gentile - Galatians 3:28. Also, there is no teaching to keep the Sabbath. Paul would go to the synogogs to preach to the Jews who gathered there on that day. Cheers

@phillipsugwas

6 ай бұрын

The problem with these short clips to my mind is that they attract those who appear to have little grasp of the context , the usual suspects , who proceed to confidentially condemn , correct or expound on the background topic but who do so without ever seeking to relate their efforts towards providing a balanced view or understanding of that topic. Its actually distressing. If , and again its a big if your departure point is an enacted and commenced end time scenario we find ourselves living in, then things are contextualised. But many commenting here seemingly do not do this. (I am utterly dismayed as I watch the current news to see the justification of injustice on the basis that "prophecy"(?) is more important than anything). If you don't get the objective of Gods expanded family and what authentic compliance wth the commission implies and what the already and the not yet implies as regards the manifeststion of Gods power to change lives and societies - what you are left with is a shredded garment wth holes in it. ...it covers little.

Is he really scholar?

@maejohannsebastian7142

3 ай бұрын

On his own right, but not of God.

He is a false teacher, that has been clear for a long time. And denying the fulfilment of biblical prophecies concerning Israel is just one more proof.

Mr. Wright is completely Wrong

@maskofsorrow

4 ай бұрын

No he isn't.

@GGME7777

4 ай бұрын

@@maskofsorrow God has promised the land of Israel to the descendants of The sons of Israel (Jacob) for ever

@maskofsorrow

4 ай бұрын

@@GGME7777 The true Israel is the Church of God and we look for a Heavenly Jerusalem. 70 A.D. was Gods divorce certificate for fleshly Israel. The true Israel and Heavenly Jerusalem are made up of Jew and Gentile believers. The Old Covenant were just types and shadows of the Heavenly reality that Jesus Christ ushered in.

N T Wright, one of the "two initial scholarship cult", is a master of the word salad with heresy dressing and spicy arrogance. Tom is full of himself.

I think, N.T. Wright is wrong here. This teaching is found everywhere in the world! He is not up to date.

@P.H.888

2 жыл бұрын

He’s with The Lord Jesus not the latest fad of the world.

@estarr86

9 ай бұрын

Let everyone man be a liar

This man is so brilliant and definitely Wright. He just looks at the scriptures while most everyone else is following the Christ-rejecting Zionists. Get back to Jesus. Zionism is one of those other Gospels that Paul warned about in Galatians. Jesus cursed that old fig tree of works righteousness and it died, but He did tell us that it would again put on leaves, which it has done, but He also added that it would NEVER bear good fruit for God ever again. Has it ever? Even the best king in David was seriously flawed. Why in the world does any supposed follower of Jesus and His born again redemption want to go back to anything before His coming? Only one reason, they are Judas who have given up on King Jesus and wants to go with the fake Israel that they can see with their eyes and put their trust in. It's really idolatry and I'm calling for Christians who believe in Zionism to repent of their idolatry and come back with Jesus outside the city. Read John 15;6, and Luke 19:27. That old system does not end well. It is Hagar that must be cast out and by God's grace and power it will be, maybe very soon, 70 A.D. Part B fulfilling Jeremiahs 19:11. It must be cast out because it rejects God's Messiah and King. It must be cast out and will be.

And this is why we call him N.T. Wrong

@SkibidiGman-not-playing-roblox

8 ай бұрын

Only clowns who worship the evil John MacArthur do.

N.T. Wright is not a believer or a Christian. Anyone who listens to him doesn't know or believe the Bible. His theology is sickening and not supported by any reality of the Bible. Run for your lives.

@therealmrfishpaste

8 ай бұрын

Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls.

@Christian_Maoist.

8 ай бұрын

He knows the bible far better than any American evangelical 😂

@kevnev342

8 ай бұрын

i really shows how much false teaching has come out of American evangelical movements.From word of faith to prospierty gospel. CHRIST SHOULD ENOUGH FOR CHRIST IS ENOUGH

@christianfrommuslim

7 ай бұрын

I strongly dislike it when one Christian says another is not one because they disagree on some doctrines, as clearly you do. NT is strong on salvation through Christ. That makes him a Christian.