I am surprised and discouraged at some of the comments. I understand that many people naturally disagree with Professor Wright here, but surely it is our charge as Christians, if we must differ with someone who is honest and earnest, to do so with humility and grace. Especially when the man has probably spent more time in more serious study of the issues at hand than virtually everyone in the comments. This doesn't mean he is necessarily always right of course, but he deserves to be heard and respected, clearly. Speak kindly if you disagree, and pray that through this as well the Spirit may bring us all closer to God's Truth.

@nathanhellrung9810

4 жыл бұрын

I appreciate comments like these. God bless you!

@gtolose

4 жыл бұрын

So, my wife should come to church with me and see that I am under the authority of another female (the pastor at my church), she may wonder how come in the household she has ceded the authority to her husband as determined in the Bible and yet the Church has made itself special and said those rules r for u, but we have different rules for us. The problem is that God requires order. that requirement for order must not allow my wife to see me under the authority of any other women that is a contradiction, and is disrespectful to her. That is a fundamental objection to the female pastor. Also if u make the female pastor OK then the family leadership is up for grabs also. In most families the women will lead because they r simply better at it, however, maybe God wants the men to lead, maybe because they are not much good at it and need to be encouraged to take control of their families. Whatever the reason, that patriarchal system is the model laid down. Spoiler Alert - most women reject it both within and outside the church. The consequences ?

@fluffybabybunny5822

4 жыл бұрын

@@gtolose "The problem is that God requires order." Not quite. God IS order. The human condition (ie 'infected' with sin) is not. Your subsequent application of that (as you've described above) is part of that human condition. The Kingdom of God does not look like that at all. We know that because Jesus tells us in Matt 20:25. Hierarchy is MAN MADE. Mutuality is God's way. There is no 'authority' among humans that isn't a product (and sometimes a necessity) of our sinful condition. In the Kingdom it is only the Godhead that has authority. Thus, we have people in charge here, people to have the 'last word' because we have elected or appointed them, and we can remove their authority if they abuse it. We recognise it as transitory as opposed to ontological. In complementarian ideology such authority isn't appointed but intrinsic: it is assumed by virtue of genitalia and it cannot be removed or given to another who does not have the required genitalia. This is about as far from God's Kingdom as anything else we call 'idolatrous'. We have effectively given men the position that only Christ can possibly ever have. We have persistently sinned in the way of the first two commandments, and the two 'greatest' commandments cited in the Gospels by Jesus. "if u make the female pastor OK then the family leadership is up for grabs also" - absolutely correct! The problem is that you've assumed and authority in the home that you don't have and I don't think there is scope to repeat it all here. Much scholarship has been done on this by folks like Philip Payne, Gordon Fee, Margaret Mowczko, Sarah Bessey, Lee Grady, Ron Pierce, Rebecca Groothius, Loren Cunningham, Scot McKnight, John Temple Bristow: I could go on - my point is not to say these are 'better' at interpreting the bible than complementarian scholars, but just to provide some names to investigate and measure their works on their individual merits. "Spoiler Alert - most women reject it both within and outside the church" - not sure where you get this from - perhaps it's a cultural issue, because I certainly don't see it in my circles. Most women want a partnership with men and husbands, not an hierarchy. Of course, when men refuse to partner it can LOOK LIKE women are trying to 'seize power', but it is very much the way a child who has had a toy unfairly take off them by another child and tries to get it back. We are all God's children, and he handed out those toys (gifts) fairly. Men have grasped them from the hands of women then complained and even used violence when women have either complained about the unfairness or attempted to take them back.

@KingdomFTX

4 жыл бұрын

Fluffy Baby Bunny If we are to agree that God is the authoritarian, deserving of all honor and respect and worship because he is God, and, as you say, he IS order, then we have to also accept that the order in which she did things was very specific and for a very specific reason. God created man before he created woman. When he created all the other animals, he made them in pairs, male and female. So does that make us think he didn’t know what he was doing whenever he created man alone? I think there is a theological purpose intended for the order of when the human male was created. He created the animals together. He created humans, male first and then female out of male. Genesis 2:20 says that woman would be a helper for man because, before God created her, he did not have a helper. He assigned roles to us so that we would function within them. Because of sin, that has been tainted and so therefore we redefine those roles according to what we pridefully think they should be. Just because we want something to be true, and one can justify it in different directions or find different sources that agree to make those justifications more “true“, doesn’t mean that is what is actually truth.

@fluffybabybunny5822

4 жыл бұрын

@@KingdomFTX I've always maintained that the debate over gender roles is not about gender and who should do what at all. Rather it is over Biblical interpretation. Just a look at the path most of the comment threads have gone down in this post alone shows us nothing if it doesn't show us that how we interpret the bible - all of it - is what is the bottom line. And one thing that is also evident in every conversation I've ever had about anything to do with the Bible is that no two people interpret everything the same way - regardless of their culture, gender, education, faith tradition or anything else. That said I suggest to you that you are over-reading 'order', to the extent that it could be misused (and I maintain has been misused) in Orwellian style. In Animal Farm the pigs maintained the 'order' because that's how they were created (we would call that 'the created order'), and in doing so ruled over (in any way they saw fit either benign or otherwise) the rest of the animals. Of course Orwell was critiquing something much broader than gender roles but its a technique that has endured through history from social structure to race to gender: Consider these sayings from the last century or so: 'All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others' 'Separate but equal' 'Equal but different' They make perfect sense to their advocates, but to those they marginalise they are heinous (of course, some of those they marginalise are oppressed into submission to the point of not recognising this: just reading about Harriet Tubman and some of the folks she attempted to emancipate would not leave, out of fear or simply not knowing what the future held for them). You said: "Because of sin, that has been tainted and so therefore we redefine those roles according to what we pridefully think they should be." I agree: this is what men have done throughout history as regards women. This is what men have done since the Fall. Prior to last century the vast majority of men have considered women not as equals in any way but as 'less than'. Historically we can trace this back to Aristotle, or one might say to the Fall: 'he will rule over you' (part of the curse not God's design). Incidentally , someone here mentioned the superior physical strength of men as one reason why they thought God had 'put men in charge'. Aside from other obvious problems with this I would suggest that since the verses used to describe 'the woman' in the creation account are 'ezer kenegdo' which translates to 'a great help which is equal (to me)' it is likely that the smaller stature of most females is a product of the fall. It is only during the last century - after the wars had shown that women are capable of many things they were formerly thought not capable of - that Christians (and others) began to see that women were indeed, 'equal' to men. But men still could not give up privilege so 'complementariansm' was born. First flagged in the 60's or early 70's by someone called George Knight III, and named (a number of people claim to have named it, among them Mary Kassian) 'complementarianism' in the 80's. This was very clever: giving the movement a name that it didn't deserve (the true meaning of the word holds no hierarchical implications. Many egalitarians today maintain the complementarity of the sexes as a Biblical concept rooted in the Genesis account, but with no hierarchy implicit). At that time the SBC - arguably one of the most influential protestant denominations in America which has worldwide influence - stopped ordaining women and began to talk about 'roles' in terms of gender. Things snowballed from there. John Piper and Wayne Grudem put together the very influential 'Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood': I've read it and use it to refer to often. It is one of the most disjointed pieces of segregational nonsense I've ever had the misfortune to read. The individual authors cannot make a coherent case between them, as they all apply their 'theology of gender' in different ways. (By contrast, although due to the same interpretational and translational issues that we all face not all egalitarians agree on HOW they get their position, they APPLY their theology consistently, as it does not allow for exclusion of some of God's people. How complementarians manage to get along with such a broad range of application boggles the mind - but then I suppose they don't get along, so there's that). This notion of 'complementarity' of 'equal but different' is sneaky. In and of themselves the phrases appear true so they make sense to people, but the implications intended that extend beyond them are what matters to those who coin and use them, not the phrases themselves. In other words, complementarianism is a subterfuge: it is a trick. And it is very very new in Christendom. Yet it is painted as a long part of Christian history. In reality, (orthodox) Christian history devalued women the whole way: they were never 'equal' to men, spiritually or otherwise. This is a position most Christians today - regardless of their stance on women's 'roles' - would outright reject, and one that is really easy to prove false. With regard to the Genesis account - which you mention, how is 'the man' created first relevant to matters of leadership? There are too many problems with that notion. There are many ways to interpret that account (which is written in poetical style - it isn't a science class and we can't retrospectively read science into it). Firstly, the first human was not 'the man' (ish). 'The man' (ish) did not exist until 'the woman' (ishshah) was taken out of 'the human' (ha-adam). It was also the human (neither male nor female) which 'named' the animals. The account when read in the original language makes these distinctions clear, although they are not necessarily clear in the English or modern languages, and one cannot possibly claim from this account alone that males were 'created' before females. There's no argument of 'order' with relation to hierarchy among human beings here, nor is there when God gives the humans dominion: Gen 1:26 - 'they' are to rule - male AND female. Despite people attempting to attribute hierarchy here there IS none. (For more see margmowczko.com/human-man-woman-genesis-2/; Chapter two in 'Man and Woman, One in Christ' - Philip B Payne; Katherine Bushnell - chapter 1 (I think) 'God's Word To Women', among many others - these are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head). So where so we get the idea that 'Adam' was 'created first' and 'Eve' subsequently created? It is from some phrases of Paul's in Corinthians, Ephesians and Timothy. These require a bit more study which is out of the scope of this format, but suffice it to say that Paul was countering a particular local issue in those two churches: this is covered well in the above resources and in many scholarly books and articles that can be found by searching the Christians for Biblical Equality site (The Junia Project is another good resource). We could argue this indefinitely here, but I would prefer to direct people to other resources as I don't actually know anyone here and I have other things to do (I've been answering the more respectful comments here for the past two hours, for instance and have done so many mornings over the past week to ten days). The bottom line: I have found that the more people study the Bible using a variety of resources (assuming these are Bible-based in that they recognise Scripture as authoritative in terms of teaching) the more they come to realise that they have been fed the wrong ideas about quite a few things but mostly about male-female relationships. Gal 3:28 starts to make a lot more sense when this realisation sets in. Many still say 'that is only about salvation' in an attempt to maintain gender 'roles' but that neither fits the broader context of the Epistle, the entreaty to Christians throughout the scriptures to seek 'the kingdom of God' 'on earth as it is in heaven' and it seeks to limit the scope of what 'salvation' actually means in any practical sense. That is a broader discussion, however. (note: I am now turning off notifications for this video and will not see any replies)

Oh yeah right! Could you imagine wright standing face to face saying to Paul “ I know what you say, but I disagrees with what you mean!”

Off topic but the older man’s voice has full permission to narrative my life.

@jonpool9030

3 жыл бұрын

@Chezzarai it's the British accent that's bamboozling you

@denisenoe1534

3 жыл бұрын

It is a wonderful voice. But that brings up a reason some people oppose women in the ministry: they think female voices just don't sound as good.

@jonpool9030

3 жыл бұрын

@@denisenoe1534 what? Never heard that before

@denisenoe1534

3 жыл бұрын

@@jonpool9030 I have. A man who didn't believe women should be ministers made the point that women's higher pitched voices lack the "power" of men's. I've also heard it said that our higher pitched voices are grating and/or boring. We just can't hold interest because of the higher register according to some people and don't sound as pleasant.

@OfficialBlendFizz

3 жыл бұрын

@@denisenoe1534 bible doesn't permit women to be preachers and pastors

I don't think NT Wright, reading straight from the Greek text with a wealth of contextual knowledge and years of study in biblical hermeneutics and textual criticism, is quite on the ball with this one. So I've come down here to the comment section, to hear from the monolingual experts with degrees in "Just reading what the KJV says" and [edited] "textbook logical fallacies." Thank goodness you all showed up.

@livingbyfaith5280

3 жыл бұрын

WOW! This guy clears this matter up. You got to watch this! Let me know what you think? kzread.info/dash/bejne/do6ntZJ9oa2Yirw.html

@taliagrace1565

3 жыл бұрын

@J L I'm not your friend. But thanks for reminding me I'd written this comment nine months ago cause it slaps.

@taliagrace1565

3 жыл бұрын

@J L There is 'appealing to authority' and there is 'being able to discern between a qualified expert and idiots with opinions on the internet'. Go ye and learn the difference.

@taliagrace1565

3 жыл бұрын

@J L Remind me again how you "prefer a good strawman"

@taliagrace1565

3 жыл бұрын

@J L Dude, move on.

Eye opening thank you

Be Encouraged!😁

"And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man but to be in silence." - 1 Timothy 2:12 The Scriptures are quite clear about the role that women play, their essence and their contributions.

@user-iz8np3vv4i

8 ай бұрын

I suggest my short and free essay on Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles, by God. A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin. Complementarianism is a false doctrine that is in opposition to what God actually did. God appointed a woman as a Judge over Israel. There was no gender qualification to be a Judge, in the scriptures.

@darthvadersmom1192

8 ай бұрын

@@user-iz8np3vv4i

@DD-ld1xq

5 ай бұрын

Those of the world will shamelessly twist God's word into any shape they like to make it "fit".

@KarinAllison

5 ай бұрын

A judge is not a pastor. Deborah doing that job was actually a judgement on Israel that no man was found to do that job.

@robertholmes12

5 ай бұрын

Well said!@@KarinAllison

I think that so many Christians miss the fact that women were not even considered able or worthy to learn so the idea that women should learn at all was huge. It blew their views of women and the role of women out of the water. I think one of the greatest dangers with interpreting scripture is that we take it out of its original context. We take 2 or 3 verses and build a teaching that is inconsistent with the cannon of scripture

@stephenfoster9009

3 жыл бұрын

This is a sharply acute misunderstanding of the culture. Of course women could learn and more so under Yeshua Messiah.

@2Sage-7Poets

Жыл бұрын

Titus 2:3-5 Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.

@0xTRellyx0

Жыл бұрын

It's not one or two verses. The entire chapter and the next (1 Timothy 2 and 3) describe the roles of men and women and the qualifications for overseers and deacons in a very specific way. We can pretend it doesn't say what it does, or we can accept it. Being submissive is a choice and it doesn't make you less. Themes of submission are prevalent throughout the canon of scripture. For example, rendering to Caeser what is Caeser's, children obeying their parents; wives submitting to their husbands, and Jesus submitting to the Father. Since Jesus and the Father are one (John 10:30), submission does not mean unequal.

@denondj1234

Жыл бұрын

@@0xTRellyx0 Amen!

@colenewaltersmusicandother9330

Жыл бұрын

@@2Sage-7Poets Amen

It is a difficult position women are in. We neither want to tell our Lord, "No, we can not speak the message burning in our hearts" but neither can we say with confidence because of this verse that it is allowed to us to speak it. I dont want to be disobedient to God in either instance. The other question I have is: if women are forbidden to teach or speak in church because they are more susceptible to being deceived then why should they be trusted at all to teach other women and children. Are they only susceptible to being deceived when it comes to teaching grown men?

@CGdone

4 жыл бұрын

I think that's a very good question. The deception of Eve keeps being rehashed over and over and over again. So, if we are in Christ, aren't we a new creation in Christ, re-created in Him? Aren't all things passed away and behold all things become new? Isn't the second creation (being born again) higher then the former creation? If then, all these things are true, then Eve's original sin no longer applies because Jesus redeemed us from the original curse of sin that took place in the garden. Any weakness, including Adam's willful proclivity to sin and then blame God for it, has been placed under the blood of Jesus. Interestingly enough, more women seem to have better discernment than many men. I believe this was God's sign of redemption to us. A more important question to ask: a child's most formative and important years are between the ages of 1-8 years old. These are the years where a foundation is laid for the child's intellectual, social, emotional, and physical health. If these years are the most fundamental years in a child's life (boys and girls) and their mothers are expected to teach and train them up in the way in which they're supposed to go, then why would mothers even be allowed to teach their children at such an important juncture in their lives if they can so easily be deceived? Timothy's mother and grandmother taught him the gospel and it never mentions his age at all in reference to it. I think the issue here is pride. It goes back to the originator of pride, Satan. Interestingly enough, pride is on God's list of abominations. Proverbs 6:16. It really has nothing to do with Eve's original sin or being deceived. It's just a convenient excuse to support and validate their views. Job 15:5; 2 Thes. 2:10; 1 John 4:6; Either way, all of us can be deceived. All of us have sinned. And just a side note for some context about leadership and deception: most cult leaders have been men who led many astray. Some of the largest and most damaging and deceived are - David Koresh, Charles Manson, Jim Jones, L. Ron Hubbard, Sun Myung Moon, Bhagwah Shree Rajneesh, David Berg, Warren Jeffs, Elbert Eugene, Swami Premananda, Yahweh Ben Yahweh, Ervil Lebaron, Shoko Asahara, Marshal Applewhite, Joseph Di Mambro & Luc Jouret, Moses of Crete, Hassan Al-Sabah, Muhammad Ahmad, Hong Xiuquan, among others. I only found 2 women in all of those extensive lists. I won't even list the countless pastors, preachers, and teachers in the church who have fallen into sin and/or preached and taught heretical doctrine. All of them were & are men. It's very interesting that when men use the "deception" argument, they never ever stop to look at all the men listed above or the countless others who have, in fact, been deceived. All of them were in leadership. They fail, repeatedly, to see the glaring error in their argument or their own hypocrisy. It's blatantly obvious to all except for the blind ones.

@jenverhelst6477

3 жыл бұрын

34Women are to be silent in the churches. They are not permitted to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35If they wish to inquire about something, they are to ask their own husbands at home; for it is dishonorable for a woman to speak in the church.e 36Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only ones it has reached? 37If anyone considers himself a prophet or spiritual person, let him acknowledge that what I am writing you is the Lord’s command. 38But if anyone ignores this, he himself will be ignored. 1 cor14:34ff Paul makes the point that this is the Lord ’s command. Whereas it is also true that Scripture tells us that your sons and daughters shall prophesy. So do women have a place to prophesy? Certainly, but not in the church and that is the Lord’s command. This whole debate about women in office is often looking for reasons why it ought to be so. In my humble opinion, we miss the mark of love and obedience to God by doing so. God commands and we His disciples should simply say, yes Lord! I don't understand but yes lord I love you and so I will strive to obey. I realize this still doesn't resolve the issue. Where exactly do women get to prophesy? Because we know that many women worked alongside Paul in ministry simply read through Romans 16 to see the bigger picture. So Paul is not antiwomen, rather everything must be done decently and in good order. Good order allows women to prophesy anywhere, but not in the church, this is God's will.

@CGdone

3 жыл бұрын

@@jenverhelst6477 That's an interesting interpretation of prophecy you take away from these scriptures. Because if you start at the beginning of 1Cor. 14, Paul addressed both men and women on tongues and prophecy. Then he breaks down how each should be done, in an orderly fashion, then he concludes at the end of the chapter at verse 39 - "So, my dear brothers AND sisters, be eager to prophecy, and don't forbid speaking in tongues. And verse 40 - But be sure everything is done properly and in order. This was Paul's final statement in the chapter and the summation of the chapter. You quote vs. 34 about women being silent in the church. What law was Paul referring to in this verse when he says ..."as the law says?" What law is that? I challenge you to study that out. Also, not every woman is married, so why would Paul address only husbands and wives in this particular passage? Why didn't he simply say women? What is the context? Without it, you can't accurately interpret the scriptures. Furthermore, everyone seems to skip over verse 28 - "But if there is no interpreter, HE must keep silent in the church; and let HIM speak to HIMSELF and to God." Verse 31 - "For you can all prophecy in turn so that everyone (all) may be instructed and encouraged." All means all, not just men. Paul's opening statements and closing statements support that, they don't negate women speaking in tongues or prophesying in church gatherings. Paul is explaining how it's to be done. Do your homework and ask the Holy Spirit for revelation knowledge as you study. He's faithful to show you and also show you how much scripture has been interpreted through a carnal lens and religious tradition. To accept that women can't teach and preach the Word because of "deception" is to remain under the original curse of sin, the Adamic curse, and to reject what Jesus died on the Cross to redeem and restore for all, both men and women. The choice is always up to the individual.

@ruth9247

3 жыл бұрын

Nancy Crews good point. When we read the Bible, we have to look at the context and culture. They also told us women can't vote. Who is to say we can't? If God called you to teach/preach, you should be obedient. Gospel is to be preached to the earth. It is God who calls and equipped. Not men! Don't allow men's opinions to hold you from God's call in your life.

@TheV1CT0RY

3 жыл бұрын

@@ruth9247 God is not unclear in the Bible, Paul aren't against women, he loves women and knows Gods ordering and that women arent made for the leading role. God doesn't contradict himself, you cant be called to teach men as a women because the Bible is Gods word. If a woman feels a calling maybe she is called to lead other women like it is said in the Bible that older women should lead the younger women to be lovers of husband and of children and to submit to their husbands. Eves fault in the fall was that she wanted to rule or make decisions without asking her husband. And Adams sin was that he didn't protect her and he seemed not to take the responsibility and care like men have a big tendency to do. God created Adam first and woman after. Adam didnt take the responsibility to lead and protect and Eve didnt submit to her husband but wanted to rule by herself. I love you and God loves you, the Bible is clear. It is a sin for a woman to revolt against the word of God and it is a sin for a husband to not be or strave tp be more like the ultimate man, Jesus Christ. If you are offended by scripture, the question yourself if you have a wrong view. Dont try to find all sorts of explanations to not follow Gods will revealed in the word. Women are wonderfully made, equal in worth as men. God created two sexes. Man and woman. Why didnt he just create one sex? Because a man and a woman reflects god together in marriage. Like the Christ and his bride. Its a wondeful thing. It is delightful, you are like Christ the husband and bride the woman in marriage. Men and woman are created different, for different roles. No role is more worth than the other. God the son submitted to God the father. Is the Son lesser worth? Nooo!! He is equally worth even if he submits to the Father. It is a wondeful thing how humans are created, so precious and unique and wondeful. God delights in a godly woman who arent afraid of anything and hopes for God. And God is delighted in a man who is a man of God, a man who protects women, and loves like christ loves the church. And takes responsibility and provides. God delights in a godly woman and God delights in a godly man. Equal value, fellow heirs of the kingdom, yet different roles. It is wondeful how God made humans, it is an order that is so precious because it reflects something of God himself. A woman who hopes in God, who is tender, nurturing, loving, submissive, helping and supporting her husband, has her hope in God the almost high, her hope is not in her husband or friends or something else. And a Godly man who is a warrior for Christ, conqueres with his wife. He is responsible, leading his wife and children to love the Lord with all their heart. He is a picture of God the fathers rule to his children, he loves his wife like Chridt loves his church, giving up himself for her, dying on a cross for his bride, providing for his family, a rolemodel for the family when he serves the family like Jesus washed the apostles feet. God is honored and glorified in a Godly man and a Godly woman. God bless you, the Bible is good, God is good, Paul loves women, Peter loves women, Jesus loves women, God loves women. God bless you my brothers and sisters, follow God with your life, repent of your sins ask God to open your heart to the wondeful mystery of manhood and womanhood. 😀

I greatly respect that NT Wright was reading directly from the Greek. He hits points that most miss when they only read the English translations. Addressing "authentein" is something that is missed and this is too critical of an issue not to apply a careful hermeneutic.

@proudhon100

Жыл бұрын

NT Wright is, I fear, being disingenuous with his argument. There are plenty of passages in the New Testament whcih contradict his argument - eg I Cor 14: 33-37; 1 Cor 11, Titus 2: 11-13 & many others. Paul was apparently unaware of NT's "Cultural Revolution," an unfortunate phrase from Communist China. Maybe we should consider why the western churches are unqiquely weak in 2000 years of Gospel history.

@elibennett6168

Жыл бұрын

@@proudhon100 Hinting, innuendo, and cherry picking do not make a strong hermeneutic. You don't acknowledge the contradictions with scripture in the very texts you indicate, which means you are choosing an interpretive frame out of bias and not analysis.

@proudhon100

Жыл бұрын

@@elibennett6168 My interpretive framework is that scripture was inspired by God and therefore by definition does not contradict itself. Men and women however, like to impose their fallen worldviews onto this communication from the Lord.

@elibennett6168

Жыл бұрын

@@proudhon100 Christianity is not some cult where we just believe what people say without intellect. Rather, those that earnestly search the scriptures to see what pastors or self-professed leaders say is true are especially commended (Acts 17). No point in continuing our discussion since you are not adding anything that hasn't been pored over and found wanting, particularly if you claim an absolutist position that does indeed contradict scripture.

@proudhon100

Жыл бұрын

@@elibennett6168 Those who seek novelty in Scripture are pre-disposed to heresy. When you refer to passages of Scripture as being "found wanting" you are making it quite clear that you don't like what God has said.

Amen!

Is there a full unedited version of this anywhere?

@dingledan1966

3 жыл бұрын

Yes! This is from Wright's podcast called "Ask NT Wright Anything". I listen to it on Spotify but I'm sure you can find it on most podcast services.

@GI4JYT

3 жыл бұрын

@@dingledan1966 Yes, thanks for that.

The Bible tells men and women EXACTLY what to do and NOT do respectively. The fact that people are determined to add on and take away from the scriptures just shows how hard the enemy is at work and who he's working through.

@yullanvalor3380

2 жыл бұрын

And that enemy is YOU.

@simismith9093

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe. Maybe not. I hope you as a man are leading in your church and teaching and serving. Boldly declaring the good news to all and being an example of a believer

@yullanvalor3380

2 жыл бұрын

@@simismith9093 I lead myself, thank you.

@yabbadabbapodcast123

2 жыл бұрын

lol PAUL tells men and women in specific churches not to do...

@MMAGUY13

24 күн бұрын

The church and the world look more and more alike. Bible clear women not allowed to preach.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a ROYAL PRIESTHOOD, an holy nation, a PECULIAR PEOPLE; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

@Brandon.Germany

3 ай бұрын

So? What does being a Holy nation have to do with holding the office of Elder?

This,was sooo very good, thank you. 😊

I totally agree when he said there are people who interpret things based on highly selective portions of scriptures - there are those who specifically look at narratives and give their interpretation and not at the teaching letters in the NT. He clearly demonstrates it.

@erickanlaebk

3 жыл бұрын

that is exactly what he has just done with his explanation.

@sharplikecheddar2

2 жыл бұрын

@@erickanlaebk Thank you. I was baffled by his hypocrisy and the fact that he did not even address the central verses to the argument which in my mind are 1 Timothy 3:12, Titus 1:5-6 (which completely destroys his cultural Ephesus argument) and then he tries to say the whole argument is made out of these three verses which he must know is not the case. I'm sorry but his argument was very loose at best and misleading at worst.

@rachelm9350

2 жыл бұрын

@@sharplikecheddar2 look up Melissa Scott discussing this. If you can take a PhD, multilingual female talking about it....

@sharplikecheddar2

2 жыл бұрын

@@rachelm9350 I am familiar with her and if this is your best argument then I stand even more firm in my position. Her arguments for woman pastors do not tackle the most prominent verses against it and she has several questionable teachings. Not to mention her examples that she often uses, woman of the church, were great people no doubt but were not pastors. What’s more likely, approx 2000 year of church history has gotten this teaching wrong or new age feminist of the last few decades are the ones that have polluted the doctrine? I encourage you to not allow others to make the argument for you. Search the scriptures for yourself and pray on what you read. Woman are just as valuable as men but we each play different roles in the home and church. If you have a problem with it take it up with God, don’t fool yourself with earthly justifications.

@patrickbarnes9874

2 жыл бұрын

@@rachelm9350 "If you can take a PhD, multilingual female talking about it..." If you want to win an argument, resorting to petty insults like that doesn't serve you well. It's not intelligent argument and it's not following the commands of Christ.

Our society has been trending more and more towards the exact culture in Ephesus that Paul was speaking into, we have OVER-corrected from being misogynistic to feminist in an unhealthy way. N.T. is I believe comparing apples (women sitting at the feet of Jesus, being active helpful members of the church) to oranges (women being elders/pastors). I think this is a secondary issue, but worth debating.

@fluffybabybunny5822

4 жыл бұрын

Feminism is the equality of the sexes. Not 'overcorrection'. You're thinking of matriarchy, and there aren't a lot of matriarchal cultures around.

@tgthomasgoertzen

4 жыл бұрын

egalitarianism is equal but in application it wants equity, feminism seeks to usurp the patriarchy

@fluffybabybunny5822

4 жыл бұрын

@@tgthomasgoertzen No that is an incorrect 'straw-man' representation of feminism. Patriarchy IS inequality. It is MEN who have usurped an authority that isn't theirs.

@joellmarlowe8613

4 жыл бұрын

Fluffy Baby Bunny Why must it be termed “feminism”? Why not simply equality. There is no cohesive movement known as “masculinism”, however if patriarchy is an unjust male-centric system, wouldn’t it logically follow that feminism would result in an unjust female-centric system?

@fluffybabybunny5822

4 жыл бұрын

@@joellmarlowe8613 OK that's a fair question, but I didn't name it. The definition is there for any dummy to look up though, and there are egalitarians who eschew the term for the reasons you mention, but that doesn't change it's original meaning. Bottom line is we are just arguing about semantics here, and it's not really worth it. I decided some time ago to just embrace the term. It's not my fault if others can't be bothered doing their own research.

I love my mother and father and my siblings. But only my father accepts Christ as his savior. I love my mother and I’d die for her, but it bothers me that as time goes ticking, she’s going on 70 that she isn’t going to accept Christ. And it makes me cry. My mother doesn’t like me, out of all my siblings she didn’t love me that much. She never says I love you but I always say I love you. Because one day she is gonna leave and never come back. it’s one of the things that has hurt me the most. I hope she will love Jesus. She has developed cancer, and in her old age some of my siblings abuse her and guide her down the dark path. Or the wide road. One of my sisters openly hates Christ, and the other is Muslim. She calls me a bigot everytime I mention Christ. I teach their children about Christ though. I hope that I will see them again. I hope they don’t suffer. I would miss my family but I would never go against my lord. I follow Jesus.

@marylindasmith8503

Жыл бұрын

Praying for your family.

@London_miss234

Жыл бұрын

Prayers

@brackinsteve

3 ай бұрын

I pray to break the spirit of rejection off of your life in Jesus name!

I like this video a lot!

Yes, oh yes. And they are English! This is balm to my soul.

God is not the author of confusion.

@helgepopanz598

3 жыл бұрын

dont blame God if women are confusing you

@benjamincamping8134

3 жыл бұрын

I see this quoted on a lot of NT Wright videos.

@John-lv6uj

3 жыл бұрын

The body of Christ is a Bride. Should the men act like a women/ Bride? Or both men and women should stay in there place? A woman can’t do what a man can. Women must do what they are created to do just like a man. Be fruitful and multiple. Women don’t be FOOLED by Satin. Stay out of that Pulpit Fire.

@eugenesanders3094

3 жыл бұрын

And yet...thousands upon thousands of Protestant denominations, sectarian division and a multitude scriptural disputes among Christians suggest that the Bible is far less "clear" than we Christians like to pretend it is.

@eugenesanders3094

3 жыл бұрын

And yet...thousands upon thousands of Protestant denominations, sectarian division and a multitude scriptural disputes among Christians suggest that the Bible is far less "clear" than we Christians like to pretend it is.

Wonderful!!! Thank you!!!

@markanthonymarla

2 жыл бұрын

Are Women Preachers Biblical? '' NO '' !!! ... kzread.info/dash/bejne/eZuew6R8nLiZgNo.html

Does anyone know what the Bible is that’s sitting on the table in rainbow letters?

Thank you!!

So beautiful that even though Eve listened to the snake and ate bringing death, that Jesus speaks to women first to spread the word that life has been restored!! Alleluia!

@user-uj5pc7dy2j

3 жыл бұрын

God (Jesus Christ) chose 12 men to carry the apostolic mission, not women.

@saxmanjpr5092

3 жыл бұрын

If it was not for a group of FEMALE missionaries from Europe that I met in Las Vegas 14 years ago, I never would have been saved. :) Imagine if they took 1 Timothy 2:12 out of context. :)

@user-uj5pc7dy2j

3 жыл бұрын

@@saxmanjpr5092 This is not about women as evangelizers (everybody should evangelize and bring the good news to other people). This is about women in priesthood, which is incompatible with Christian faith. To anybody align with God and His teachings, this should be obvious. The only ones promoting feminism in Christianity are anti-Christian modernists - both the useful idiots like you and the OP (that aid in pushing this anti-Christ agenda), and the dishonest deceivers like the speaker on the video.

@saxmanjpr5092

3 жыл бұрын

@Pond3r Thiz a pastor IS a teacher. Tell you what, How about you tell you mom to shut up if she wats to teach others and see how fast she slaps you! You people are freaks!

@saxmanjpr5092

3 жыл бұрын

@Gary Richardson That is a bunch of CRAP! You need go back to what you were taught in your 5th grade English class and remind yourself of what the difference between a SINGULAR term and a PLURAL term is. The bible says "A womAn shall not teach..." not "all womEn..." If you were to tell my mother and sister to shut up (and the bible says to treat all womEn as mothers and sisters: 1 Timothy 5:2) I would break your nose. I bet you would do the same thing to me if I were to tell you Mother and even wife to shut up. Also, don't you think Eve learned from her mistake? Use some common sense.

The most logical interpretation of 1 Timothy 2:11-15 I have found is thus: Artemis was a huntress goddess. Her statues show her covered with testicles, which she took from the bulls she killed. But there's a twist to the story: she magically turned her male opponents into bulls, and then killed them... and stripped them of their maleness. So, the worship of Artemis actually wove into the female mind the idea of conquering males by any devious means possible. Artemis was also looked to as the protector of women in childbirth. To come under her protection, an expectant mother was required to take part in Artemis temple rituals. Ephesus was devoted so thoroughly to the worship of Artemis that any other religion entering the city had to incorporate the Artemis myth into their teachings. Every religion became an Artemis cult. So, what would a Jewish-Artemis cult teach? They certainly would not teach that Adam was formed first, because that would seem to promote the idea the man was superior! Nor would they teach that Eve was deceived. Because Artemis beliefs said women were spiritually superior. Do you see now how those last 3 verses were simply Paul's rebuttal of Artemis cult teachings? 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. Evidently, a woman had come into the church from the Jewish cult of Artemis, and was -- as she was trained -- trying to usurp male authority! Notice how Paul speaks of "women" in the plural, in verses 9 & 10. And then he switches to speaking of "THE woman" and "A woman" in verses 11 - 15. Greek scholars say this is significant. Paul was no longer talking about all the women in the church. He was talking about ONE woman in particular, who was causing trouble for Timothy. And Paul was simply telling Timothy how to handle her, and how to push back against her false doctrine.

@michaelbrickley2443

2 жыл бұрын

Mary Ellen, very astute observation. Pastor Melissa Scott has a masters in Biblical languages and has had to defend herself being given the pastorate by her late husband. She claimed the same thing. Timothy was more than likely having trouble with a woman trying to dominate him. Shalom

@beverlypecsoy4383

2 жыл бұрын

Mary, what an insight! Thanks for sharing this. This is gold. Thank you very much.

@awildareyes4507

2 жыл бұрын

Excelente information! Thank you

@dahokage1043

2 жыл бұрын

So how bout the rest of Timothy ?

@michaelbrickley2443

2 жыл бұрын

@@dahokage1043 what specifically?

I like this approach to the topic with this video, thank you.

@biblicalanswers1019

Жыл бұрын

The Scripture(Rom 16:1) you're referring to said "Phebe our sister" , not phebe our pastor, not phebe our prophetess, not phebe our deacon. But phebe our sister. Teach the truth, the word is truth. Dont change it. It is what it is. It means what it said. if it doesn't suit your beliefs, then change what you believe to suit it. Paul spoke by the Holy Ghost, and the Holy Spirit can not make a mistake, why would God say through him, "i suffer not a women to teach not to be an overseer over the men", then the next day, turn around and say, "I'm sending phebe up to the church of Rome to give a sermon". A sermon is speaking. Women can't give sermons, she can speak... in the church. It never said nothing about speaking outside the church, but it said she cant speak inside of the church. The word calls for her complete obedience in this matter. Not rebellion. It's not that she can't do it, it's that she shouldn't do it. I'm sure women or just as cappable of speaking scriptures in the pulpit, but God said she cant give a sermon, she cant speak... in the church, and not one church, but all the churches, he said. All. "1Corinthians 14:33 (kjv) For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as 👉in all👈 churches of the saints. 34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is 👉not permitted👈 unto them 👉to speak👈; but they are 👉commanded👈 to be under obedience, as also saith the law." And the law doesn't permit a women to be a preist, and the priestly ministry was given over to a pastoral ministry when Jesus came. Also in Gen 3:16. GOD Put the man to be the overseer of the Women. Which is a type and shadow of Christ being the head and his elected church. So how can a woman get up on the pulpit and claim(usurp) authority over a congregation full of men?. That's against God's divine plan. I may not like it. But i must believe it. "1Timothy 2:12(kjv) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” If a aged women wants to teach, she can teach younger women(Titus 2:3,4), not men, that's biblical, and not from the pulpit either. Because she cant speak(give a sermon) inside the church. 1 Corinthians14:35 (kjv) ... for it is a shame for women to speak 👉in👈 the church.” God thinks it's shamful. There must be a reason. I may not know or understand completely why, but i trust Him. You should to. God's word is infallible and it is always right, regardless of if we agree with it or not. Dont let satan cause you to believe a lie (2Thess2:11 - 2Chron18:21)

So many issues in the word of God has a thread from start to finish and this issue of the women is one of those that unfortunately some get to wrapped up in the couple of scriptures that keep women in a box but the overarching thread is missed and NT is very gifted at bringing out some simple common sense to assist in picking up the thread.

It is admirable that NT Wright is wishing to do everything he can to avoid what he sees as discrimination against women, who wish to serve as elders/overseers, but by concluding that his reading of 1 Timothy 2 is "just as good a way of reading the passage, as any I have come across," is just not a strong enough argument to completely overturn the traditional practice, as derived from Scripture, of all Roman Catholic Churches, Eastern Orthodox churches, and still, the vast majority of Protestant churches, for the past some 2,000 years. It does not rule out the countless ways that both women and non-elder men can and indeed do serve, and have served, in Christ's ministry. It just seems more honest and simpler to say that 1 Timothy was a forgery, not written by the Apostle Paul, and therefore, we should strike it from the canon. But that is unlikely to happen. Professor Wright is a fine, gracious, and wonderful scholar, but on this particular point of exegesis of 1 Timothy 2, he stands on ground rather thin. See remark at 11:27.

@blanktrigger8863

4 жыл бұрын

Not to mention that even the forgery argument is weak, given that the male as the head of the female is repeated even for the born-again life. As well, the very argument itself depends on ignorance of the fact that Paul most likely used a scribe for almost all of his letters (as was common back then). If he were to change his scribe then the style would change somewhat, unless he strictly dictated his words. And given that he admits to being less bold and strong in person than he was in his letters (and various scenes in Acts testify to this), it isn't likely that he spoke to his scribes in that way.

@glintoflightonbrokenglass9473

4 жыл бұрын

@@blanktrigger8863 That "head" you refer to means "source" or "origin".

@fluffybabybunny5822

4 жыл бұрын

Traditional teaching on this isn't derived from the Bible, it's derived from Plaltonism.

@fluffybabybunny5822

4 жыл бұрын

I did a long study (over many years, reading many books and articles from both 'sides' of the debate, and spending much time in Scripture and prayer) of 1 Tim 2 and there are at least seven major interpretations. There are variations within these, but they can generally be narrowed down to about 7 broad positions. Two of those (one patriarchal; one egalitarian) would dismiss Scripture as authoritative; two are supposedly 'Bible based' patriarchal views; one is a bit esoteric but basically allows women to preach to and teach men today (but not in apostolic times) and another two are completely egalitarian. Five of them are at least PLAUSIBLE (I'm dismissing the first two I've mentioned as I assume we discussing this with the assumption that Scripture isn't 'outdated' or irrelevant to today). None of them can be proven beyond the point at which they don't raise further questions. This is reasonable given that scholars disagree so broadly on what some words and phrases mean. There is at least one word that is pivotal to the text that is not used anywhere else in the Bible, and not used that often elsewhere, either. However the two patriarchal positions and the esoteric one struggle to account for certain verses: 15 for eg, as well as some other verses in the epistles to Timothy and background on what is going on in Ephesus from Acts and the epistle to the Ephesians, which could seem a bit odd or irrelevant if one didn't bother to put the pieces together. Of the two egalitarian positions, I would favour one over the other, but it doesn't really matter because the outcomes are the same in terms of serving the church and who can do what, so any disagreement among these egalitarian interpretations is largely academic rather than tangible: it does not affect the way we evangelise, it certainly doesn't affect the Gospel. The two patriarchal interpretations (one people would call 'patriarchy' or maybe even 'hard complementarian', the second people would call 'soft complementarian'. These two are plausible as well, but less so as they do not take into account context beyond a very limited range of verses in the immediate text and and equally limited range of verses elsewhere in the Bible (ie: you have to pluck them out of both immediate and broader Biblical context to make them make sense). Thus Wright claiming that his take is 'just as good a way of reading the passage' is not only reasonable: it's sensible and honest. It is entirely dishonest to claim that the 'correct' interpretation' is 'clear' given that textual scholars don't even agree on what some of the verses mean!

@blanktrigger8863

4 жыл бұрын

@@fluffybabybunny5822 Textual scholars disagree about a lot of clear things due to be unspiritual people reading a book written in spiritual words. Doesn't make the text unclear at all. It just proves the natural confoundness of human thinking, especially compared to the Spirit, who is not a spirit of confusion.

The Key folks is what does GOD say...NOT what do I want in this situation.

@robertheintze9413

22 күн бұрын

Paul is rendering his OPINION here, not God

@norahk6587

19 күн бұрын

​@@robertheintze9413which priest in the bible is a woman?

@robertheintze9413

19 күн бұрын

@@norahk6587 None, but Deborah was a prophetess and women should be allowed to give announcements and read a scripture in church.

@MichaelSeven7777

10 күн бұрын

@@robertheintze9413 Christ, who is God, was on earth and selected 12 male apostles. And when Judas failed the two that were put up to take the spot were male. What chance do you think that they all are male? That is 14 males selected in a society that is about 50 percent male and 50 percent female. The chances of that are (1/2)^14 which is 1/16,384. Peter also affirms Paul's writings as being inspired: 2 Peter 3:15-16: "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures." As far as Deborah is concerned. There are exception to almost everything, and God is the only one that can do the exceptions. We can say that all have died because all have sinned. Yes. But there are exceptions to this rule. Elijah and Enoch.

@MichaelSeven7777

8 күн бұрын

Christ, who is God, was on earth and selected 12 male apostles. And when Judas failed the two that were put up to take the spot were male. What chance do you think that they all are male? That is 14 males selected in a society that is about 50 percent male and 50 percent female. The chances of that are (1/2)^14 which is 1/16,384. Peter also affirms Paul's writings as being inspired: 2 Peter 3:15-16: "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures." As far as Deborah is concerned. There are exception to almost everything, and God is the only one that can do the exceptions. We can say that all have died because all have sinned. Yes. But there are exceptions to this rule. Elijah and Enoch.

You have to give it to him; I have never seen better word gymnastics

@jasonreformedbaptist6842

3 жыл бұрын

@DiscoFalcon he seems to have many dodgy beliefs - often close to the truth but slightly off - maybe to become a Bishop in the C of E that's what it takes. Seems a nice genuine engaging man though.

@eugenesanders3094

3 жыл бұрын

@DiscoFalcon Just out of curiosity...do the women in your church disobey scripture by wearing jewelry, expensive clothing and stylish hair? "I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes" - 1 Tim 2:9

@eugenesanders3094

3 жыл бұрын

I have yet to meet a single Christian who does not demonstrate with their very lives that they cherry pick scripture left and right. Especially the fundamentalists...the more fundamentalist, the more "word gymnastics" they play with scripture.

@eugenesanders3094

3 жыл бұрын

​@DiscoFalcon I am stating my observations, but definitely open to discussion. As a Christian of over 30 years, I'm just saying that my observation is that all Christians pick and choose which verses to emphasize and which to ignore....or twist and contort scriptural passages to force them to fit their particular doctrines or theological positions or lifestyle choices. There are those who deny that they do it, and those who admit that they do it, but without a doubt all Christians do it. I'd love for someone to convince me otherwise but nobody has been able to do so through their life demonstration. Not long ago I had a conversation with a devout evangelical woman who was adamant that scripture forbids women to speak or teach in church. As she was passionately zeroing in on particular verses to prove her point, I couldn't help but to notice that she was wearing lots of jewelry, expensive apparel and a fancy hairdo. When I pointed out to her the scriptural verses which condemn her very Sunday attire, all of a sudden she was explaining away those verses as having been relevant only in their cultural context, lol. She seemed completely unaware of irony of the moment. Then you have the "Bible believing Christians" who flaunt their wealth and possessions. When you point out to them what Jesus said about accumulation of wealth and possessions, they bend over backwards attempting to justify their lifestyle choices & trying their hardest to water-down the words of Christ regarding Mammon sins. And on and on and on.

Christ constantly shattered the cultural perceptions of the time by surpassing that which was not truly of God's spirit in order to show that what God cares about above all are the hearts of his children-- and all of this sacrifice for relationship with each of us... ❤️

Men are to lead for women were created to help. But leading doesnt mean puffing yourselves up the contrary leading means to serve, it means sacrificial love as Christ did. As Christ loved and served the Church and gave himself up for her, Christ did not come to be served but to serve so how much more mortal men should do. For Scripture is clear that the ones that oversee over the Church should not control or dominate but serve the people God gave them to oversee, this is clear in matthew 20:25 25But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. 26Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. 27And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave- 28just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.” Women are to help men in their leading and in everything for thats the reason eve was created. Different duties, same worth. Roman 16:1 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae. Some other translations say servant we are aware of that and this has been addressed in the thread. So please read the comments rather than accusing people of lying. Still the Bible says "that you may welcome her in the Lord in a way worthy of the Saints, and help her in whatever she may needs from you, for she has been a Patron of many and of myself as well". Also, Romans 16:3 " my greetings to Priscilla and Aquila, my co-workers in the ministry of Christ Jesus. We are to be of one mind, one body, one accord. No man or woman is above or greater than another but Christ our Lord. Does that mean that women can be superior or over men? Of course not but neither are men superior for in Christ its all about humility so no one should boast. For its not superiority but its all about serving God and each other in humility and truth. Glory to God. Praise to you our Christ

@kaywisseh

3 жыл бұрын

◄ Psalm 68:11 ► New International Version The Lord announces the word, and the women who proclaim it are a mighty throng:

@darrialfleming8548

3 жыл бұрын

Hey sorry servant does not men deacon. Don't forget GOD says " do not add or take away from these Words or the plagues of this book will be added to you". Look it up this guy's is a someone who doesn't know the scriptures.

@erichardnett9394

3 жыл бұрын

@@darrialfleming8548 this is why the Lord said women needed to keep silent in Church

@earnestlycontendingforthef5332

3 жыл бұрын

@@darrialfleming8548 The primal word is to mean the following as the Greek word signifies. [DIAKO (To run on errands; compare (dioko)); an attendant, i.e. (genitive) a waiter (at table or in **other menial** duties);-Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary] Thus the Bible KJV translators use the word servant. Especially as being a deacon was a position for men only....[unless of course, a woman had managed to have transgendered herself.....{;o;}] "12 Let deacons be husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well." 1 Timothy 3:11-13 (ASV)

@darrialfleming8548

3 жыл бұрын

@@earnestlycontendingforthef5332 keep up the good work. Men seem to think that scripture needs them to interrupt. The Spirit of Truth which Christ has given every man in Him is sufficient.

At about 9:20 He says, "I really don't know on that", pretty much sums it up! Study to show thyself approved ......II Timothy 2:15

@nobleprince1238

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you saw through his huge uncertainties!

@houseofyahweh3785

3 жыл бұрын

😂😂😂😂

@valeriebeverly1107

2 жыл бұрын

Actually, it's humility. There is much in the Bible that is still veiled. There is much that we don't have the cultural context or linguistic knowledge to completely discern. He was being humble- he should have mentioned that no one can know for sure.

@stephenpeppin5537

2 жыл бұрын

@@valeriebeverly1107 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:13 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace. Jeremiah 50:6

id say this is some of the best explanation ive heard of this viewpoint yet. i believe in complimentarianism and that woman and now permitted to have the office of elder/ shepherd but of corse we are still used by God wonderfully but i think its pretty plain is scripture

Which book is he reading From I need it

Paul quoted the genesis as the basis of his teaching about the mans role in church is to make it clear that it is not about the culture of the society, but the order of God.

@ilmarmeldre2568

4 жыл бұрын

Paul quoted stupidity of Corinthians... about sex ("you say it's good not to touch women, but I say, let everybody have their wife... and the wife husband....") and marriage... and about women prophecying... and the order, gifts, perfect law and coverings and many other stuff... it has quotation marks there... so Paul is answering their question with their quote... not contradicting himself about New Creation... and Paul never refers to law as absolute truth.. It was about culture my friend, some Greek pagans taught that women were created first... and the man caused to sin.. and Paul said I will not allow them to teach that "woman is the author of man....", that's why spoke about Eve that she sinned first (whats the matter anyways.. who sinned first.. you have to take it to the serpent then and the devil in the end....)ö. Check this out: kzread.info/dash/bejne/eayqttegdZzFnrA.html

@cbedford2699

4 жыл бұрын

Right. There was a caveat regarding women covering their heads, but NOT about their place.

@moonytheblackcatxx

4 жыл бұрын

C Bedford he also uses creation and Angels as a reason women should cover their heads. If women can’t be shepherds (pastors) then their heads must also be covered.

@ryandionisio4137

4 жыл бұрын

Ilmar Meldre why was the hierarchy mentioned?, because there is a different rule for a man and woman. Of the 12 apostle, why all men? Is that not an obvious clue?

@StrangeDays25

4 жыл бұрын

Amen Bro! God bless you in Jesus Christ!

I like the word EXPLOSIVE It’s a powerful word

@denisenoe1534

2 жыл бұрын

It is indeed!

@zsedcftglkjh

2 жыл бұрын

I like the world BOOM It's a powerful word

Works for me.

If you can't say what seeds will bear what fruits, then you plant them and wait till they bear Fruits. You'll definitely know. I think we can compare the biblical success (not initial) between the churches headed by women and those headed by men.

Those of you amazing Greek scholars: Could that verse about "she will be saved from the curse through childbirth" have to do with the fact that Jesus was actually birthed through a woman? Was there a shift for women that could have happened there? Just curious what your thought are on this.

@fluffybabybunny5822

4 жыл бұрын

The nay-sayers here already know the mind of god. They don't have to think anything through. Don't you know god has revealed the truth to them to the exclusion of the rest of us? That's why they are so certain: no need for honesty then. They can condemn from the comfort of their desk chairs safe in the knowledge that being right is their highest calling.

@gtolose

4 жыл бұрын

Ashley Bradshaw, no greek but I have heard and understand that this reference to childbirth is what gives women their high status and which obliterates any potential accusation that women were deceived and were the cause of the fall. Childbirth, gives to women a role only they can perform and the nurturing etc which goes with that role makes them special and unique, not just another man type being. If this were not so, women's status in our society throughout history would be so much more fragile... and yes this is a bit of an obscure line … but think about it, where would women be without childbirth?

@fluffybabybunny5822

4 жыл бұрын

@@gtolose special and unique: sure Can bear children: sure However this hardly disqualifies women from serving as leaders and pastors. Moreover women only bear children for a limited number years over their life; in addition some never do, and many never get the choice.

@gtolose

4 жыл бұрын

@@fluffybabybunny5822 I am answering the point raised by Paul about childbirth "saving" women, I think it was u who suggested that this may be a reference to the birth of Jesus but I differ and suggest an alternative which seems a better fit in the context. I say this because we have arrived at a place where some r wondering "what use r men" and this has some traction because now men's superior strength is no longer really of any value and women are defended and supported for by the state while pregnant or ill then apart from a minor contribution at conception this does place men into a fairly obsolete position. They r derided and undermined on a fairly regular basis.... and accept it. If men could conceive and have children then what would history of men and women look like - how would women have been treated, can I suggest it would have been extremely difficult for women without this key role. Being childbearer and nurturer, even though weaker in a harsh environment gave women a central and pivotal role in what was essentially a patriarchal society.... But in the last 100 years it is all change both in society and in the church. Your point about specific women not having children, sure of course, not all men are physically stronger than women, but the generalisation is true and ONLY women can have children.

@fluffybabybunny5822

4 жыл бұрын

@@gtolose hmm, I'm not quite sure what you are getting at, so forgive me if this doesn't address your point. I have heard the argument of course that the 'childbearing ' verse (15, I think) is a reference to the birth of Jesus, but I'm not convinced by that so it wouldn't have been me that said it. I think it's more likely that it was countering a heresy prevailing at the time that Cybele/Artemis would protect women in childbirth, and Paul is saying 'you don't need that goddess's blessing to be kept safe'. In any case this is one of the most debated verses in the NT. Sure we should try to get to the bottom of it, but no one can really say they know exactly what Paul meant (if they do they are just being arrogant and foolish and I've no time for that). I think the interpretation above fits the context best (false teaching is mentioned in many places throughout the epistles to Timothy and is indeed a major theme in those epistles; in Acts we are told of the riots in Ephesus: it's not hard to build a picture of the context from purely Biblical sources, and of course other historical sources affirm that picture). I am puzzled as to why a passage that has roughly seven main interpretations is so narrowly interpreted to the detriment of women. One would think that where such a broad spectrum of views exists - most of them plausible and a couple of them that do not exclude women highly probable, which is the best we are going to get at this point - that the church would err on the side of freedom, not exclusion. I really do not understand how people cannot see this from the rest of the scriptures.

N.T Wright is highly respected around the world as a New Testament scholar of the Pauline theology, and I have read comments that show narrow-mindedness to someone who knows what he's talking about because the New Testament was written in Greek with an Eastern point of view, not a Western viewpoint. I think it's amusing to see people put Bible verses that he was just explaining in context to say he's wrong but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

@tanyabrown791

Жыл бұрын

You're right but their opinions don't hold water to his knowledge of Biblical and historical understanding.

@DrDoerk

Жыл бұрын

You should watch Mike Wingers video series on "Women in ministry". It'll teach you alot about this subject.

@rachelm9350

Жыл бұрын

@@DrDoerk Mike is sweet but very wrong on this topic.

@DrDoerk

Жыл бұрын

@@rachelm9350 I really don't think he is.... 99% of egalitarians arguments either aren't in context or just plan wrong. They use eisegesis instead of exegesis when reading the bible... i.e. they read their personal beliefs into the Bible instead of reading the Bible how it is. They often claim that Debra is an example of a female pastor, but she wasn't, she was a prophetess..... being a prophet is not the same as being a pastor... As well as the "there's no males or females, slaves or free, jew or gentile" argument..... they claim that this means there are no role differences, but this scripture is simply talking about inheritance..... meaning males, females, slaves, free, jews, and gentiles will all inherit the Kingdom of God (as long as they believe Christ is their Lord and Savior). This is a perfect example of using eisegesis instead of exegesis. Scripture is clear that there are role differences between men and women within the church as well as with in a marriage. To claim that it isn't so is just an error.... Have you watched his whole series on it? It's really good, and you will learn alot more about this subject.

@rachelm9350

Жыл бұрын

@@DrDoerk you just want to refuse to look at the text in context in the original language. It's fine you can be like that. But it's not reading personal beliefs. I've been in both camps and after thoroughly looking into it I am no longer complementarian as it is a false depiction of the text due to it being translated into English and a gross decontextualixation. It is not honest to hold this position. You are looking at one example of Debra. I don't even consider that as part of the argument against complementarianism.

Amen

Great point at the end. I've been wondering, and quite confused, about why this has suddenly become a question - and even hot potato - again. 🤔🧐

Why God would diminish the role of women to only give children?! Paul said in God's sight there is no difference between woman and man. They are both the same in God's sight.

@themanthemyth2614

24 күн бұрын

Yes that’s true, but men shouldn’t be trans and believe they can take on the role of a women. We are still made different

The word for woman in verses 11 and 12, ‘gyne’, means wife and is the same word used for wife in 1 Timothy 3, ‘the husband of one wife’. The word given for man in verse 12, ‘aner’, means a man, fellow, husband. The connection between wife, ‘gyne’, and husband, as the obvious choice for ‘aner’, is inescapable. For example in Ephesians 5:25 ‘Husbands (aner) love your wives (gyne).’

@johntrevett2944

3 жыл бұрын

The Greek words for “woman” and “man” in 1 Timothy 2 could refer to husbands and wives; however, the basic meaning of the words is broader than that. Further, the same Greek words are used in verses 8-10. Are only husbands to lift up holy hands in prayer without anger and disputing (verse 8)? Are only wives to dress modestly, have good deeds, and worship God (verses 9-10)? Of course not. Verses 8-10 clearly refer to all men and women, not just husbands and wives. There is nothing in the context that would indicate a narrowing to husbands and wives in verses 11-14.

@paulbriggs3072

2 жыл бұрын

@@johntrevett2944 That is an astute observation that I and most others miss.

@markanthonymarla

2 жыл бұрын

Are Women Preachers Biblical? '' NO '' !!! ... kzread.info/dash/bejne/eZuew6R8nLiZgNo.html

@francoistilman5936

Жыл бұрын

DON'T TRUST THIS NT WRIGHT HE IS HERETIC

I believe this happened before God Himself called the Church😊

Very insightful observations from Rev’d NT Wright

I rarely, if ever, comment in public spaces but for the young woman who is an apprentice of Jesus seeing this video I would hope to encourage you with this. Ignore most of the comments of the Internet theologians on this video. Read the New Testament and gospels for yourself. Read one of the gospels in a single sitting while reflecting on the character of Jesus Christ as he interacted with the women that came into his circle. Reflect on the overall narrative of scripture and God's plan for the redemption of humanity and the establishment of His kingdom here on earth. Then decide for yourself (as we must all do) what is more in keeping with the nature and character of God as revealed by His Son Jesus - the positions articulated by Dr. Wright above, or the self righteous, legalistic soundbites that comprise many of the comments here? They too have their historical parallels in the New Testament - the scribes and pharisees who appeared to have a very thorough knowledge of the scriptures yet were infuriated at this Rabbi from Nazareth who proved time and again that they may know the letter of, but completely missed the spirit and message in those same scriptures.

@Peem_pom

4 жыл бұрын

What an incredible, well thought out comment. NT Wright is bringing back many women to the church, because his teachings mean we FINALLY have a place. The fact that he speaks calmly while the commenters are know-it-all's who speak violently are proof enough.

@CGdone

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your very wise and thoughtful words. They are a great reminder of Who we serve and Who's we are.

@donatist59

3 жыл бұрын

But the Apostles were Jewish MEN! Therefore, only Jewish and Gentile MEN can be ministers! (In the confused logic of the misogynists.)

@Peem_pom

3 жыл бұрын

@Douglas 🙄

@livingbyfaith5280

3 жыл бұрын

Nathan, WOW! This guy clears this matter up, it's not literal women. You got to watch this! Let me know what you think? kzread.info/dash/bejne/do6ntZJ9oa2Yirw.html

Praise God for this man having the humility to speak the truth

@malikd.mcnish6482

3 жыл бұрын

What truth? I want to know

@birybenjamin3522

2 жыл бұрын

I think this man is misleading, where is the truth?

On your point about Adam, something grabbed me the other day in my reading. Jesus starts the list of prophets in Matt 23:4; Luke 11:51 with Abel. Jesus bypasses Cain as I would have expected but He also bypasses Adam. Then the same starting point is seen in Hebrews 11 which begins with Abel. Your thoughts?

@markanthonymarla

2 жыл бұрын

Are Women Preachers Biblical? '' NO '' !!! ... kzread.info/dash/bejne/eZuew6R8nLiZgNo.html

Phoebe was a Deacon. And there were women prophetesses and judges and there were women ministers for sure and the church was told to help them.

Which Bible verse orders female elders and pastors? Asking for the church.

@dmmusicmusic

3 ай бұрын

HAHA, not aware of any; tongue in cheek

@suzannemartin6817

21 күн бұрын

Which Bible verses tell us what women are allowed to do? Or what areas of ministry then are “good enough” for. Perhaps you have my answer. No one else, over many posts and videos has even tried to answer. Will you?

@dmmusicmusic

21 күн бұрын

none "order" women as Elders/pastors. precisely.

Amazing how so many English Christians change their theology or embrace new teachings to suit the spirit of the age...

@denisenoe1534

3 жыл бұрын

Perhaps the spirit of the age is finally catching up to what is genuinely in the Bible. Maybe Jesus was the ultimate "progressive" and society is finally catching up.

@jasonreformedbaptist6842

3 жыл бұрын

@@denisenoe1534 Nah that's not it

@coastalcraftsmen9155

3 жыл бұрын

God is the same yesterday, today and forever, he is unchanging. The God of the OT Is the same in the NT.

@DB-dl5zm

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly! That was one problem in the first century. Women were taking over and taking authority, a women's lib of that day.

@DD-ld1xq

5 ай бұрын

The Anglican church is the state church of freemasonic Britain. Enough said.

Mike Winger has just released an appraisal of this topic. Part 4 uses this video.

John.3:16

Thank you sir for bringing some common sense to the subject.

@blindbob49

2 жыл бұрын

false teaching

@earnestlycontendingforthef5332

2 жыл бұрын

You ladies please bear in mind, on your coming Judgment Day you will be judged on your willingness and obedience to the Divinely endorsed Scripture teachings and instructions that follow. Now, regarding the false teaching for the emancipation of women in the Christian fraternity. Such 21st-century contrived beliefs are in contravention and defiance of the Lord's command for women to remain silent in the church assemblies. "As [is the practice] in all the churches of the saints (God's people), 34 The women should keep quiet in the churches, for they are not authorized to speak, but should take a secondary and subordinate place, just as the Law also says. 35 But if there is anything they want to learn, they should ask their own husbands at home, for it is disgraceful for a woman to talk in church [ for her to usurp and exercise authority over men in the church]. 36 What! Did the word of the Lord originate with you [Corinthians], or has it reached only you? 37 If anyone thinks and claims that he is a prophet [filled with and governed by the Holy Spirit of God and inspired to interpret the divine will and purpose in preaching or teaching] or has any other spiritual endowment, let him understand (recognize and acknowledge) ***What what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord***. 38 But if anyone disregards or does not recognize [ that it is a command of the Lord], he is disregarded and not recognized [he is one whom God knows not]. 1 Corinthians 14:33-38 (AMPLIFIED ,BIBLE) Thus if any insist on disregarding the Lord's command for a woman's silence they have become "One whom God knows not" Which is a most undignified and ungodly position any man or woman could possibly find themselves. For even St. Paul's instruction makes it quite plain that women are forbidden to teach men and must not usurp their God given authority. "11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression" 1 Timothy 2:10-14 (KJV)

This is very interesting. It is good to see him reading from the original text rather than arguing one of countless translations.

@Baseballisbest67

3 жыл бұрын

There is no original text that we have.

@robinlimbc2914

3 жыл бұрын

Trttt

@archie8788

3 жыл бұрын

@@Baseballisbest67 most of the new testament was written in Koine Greek, a language which Jesus spoke and was the lingua franca in the Roman Empire. Almost all scholars agree that Koine is the original language of the New Testament.

@TheEnglishFundamentalist

3 жыл бұрын

@@Baseballisbest67 Correct. I share your thinking. They never show us the original text, neither the tools that discern and prove its the original text; yet they claim the original Greek says such and such. And Tom Wright, who is an extremely dangerous false teacher, is here actually giving a new English version, the Tom Wright version.

@TheEnglishFundamentalist

3 жыл бұрын

@@Baseballisbest67 Just to clarify, my first reply was meaning the original manuscripts, and thus the original Greek. I believe we have the original Greek, and the only possible place it can be is the King James Version of the Bible. My reference was to the fabled 'original' manuscripts which most seem to think inspiration stopped with, and the Greek thereon.

Witnessing can be done in different ways and preaching is one of them, i can be one on one or group, which is preaching

For any ladies watching who have questions, I would recommend God’s Word to Women by Katharine C. Bushnell. I can’t vouch for everything she says, but she makes a very convincing case for the misinterpretation and in some cases longstanding traditional mistranslation of the passages placing restrictions on women. It’s worth a read at least.

@AleishaJones-ek1mi

Ай бұрын

Katherine and other similar names are my favorite. 🥰 My favorite saint is Catherine of Alexandria.

Satan is seeking to stir up confusion in the kingdom of God contiually.

@markanthonymarla

2 жыл бұрын

Are Women Preachers Biblical? '' NO '' !!! ... kzread.info/dash/bejne/eZuew6R8nLiZgNo.html

I like NT but, his arguments are very unconvincing. Scripture is very clear on the roles of men and women.

@AlmaTlust

2 ай бұрын

Well, as a starter, look up the relationship between God the Father and God the Son (which is the role model for any authority), and then try to treat women in the same way as God the Father treats God the Son. That is your responsibility. Treating you as God the Son treats God the Father then is the woman's responsibility, but first learn your lesson and don't rub her stuff into her nose all the time. ;-)

Which original Greek text is he reading from. Thank you. God bless. Bill. UK

@glurp1

3 жыл бұрын

Most of the variants in the original Greek are insignificant (e.g., spelling differences). Most commentaries will discuss any variants that could have some impact, but even then no major points are lost.

This teaching makes me want to study the bible for life. I absolutely enjoyed this and it gives me an insight of how God views me as a woman

@rebelmadesaint3118

3 жыл бұрын

God views you as made of man to be a help meet. Not to teach or have authority. This does not mean you are loved less, but that you have a God given role to fill, as a child bearer, and teacher of women and children. Not a head of the church, teacher, or authority figure ❤️

@donaustin7374

3 жыл бұрын

@@rebelmadesaint3118 well said!!!

@MrSmartowl

3 жыл бұрын

@@rebelmadesaint3118 this comes across as a misunderstanding of the purpose of women in Genesis 2. A help meet doesn’t mean subservient. God brought forth the animals but none were found to be suitable or to meet his requirements, so God then produced a woman from his side and she did meet the requirements. From his side = as an equal. It was not good for man to be alone - he could not manage without a woman, he needed a helper. We read elsewhere that God is our help in time of trouble - that makes God our help meet.

@rebelmadesaint3118

3 жыл бұрын

@@MrSmartowl the “from his side to be equal” argument is based purely in opinion, and isn’t part of scripture. God is not a “help meet” he is our helper in times of turmoil. A woman cannot deliver us from evil. A woman cannot free us from principalities and powers. A woman was made to be subservient to a man, this does not make her less human, but she will not have authority over a man. Period.

@DW_Kiwi

3 жыл бұрын

His view of you as a woman hasn't changed. If you are a believer and born again you are a child of God. It doesn't change the fact that women are not to teach men!! That is what the bible plainly says.

OT Joel 2:28-29 NT Acts 2:17-18

@travishanson166

4 жыл бұрын

Read to the end of Joel, in the Lord's Day, the sons and daughters of the remnant of Israel , in Mt. Zion and Jerusalem shall prophesy (Speak God's word, not charismatic prophetic utterance). Everyone (all nations) gets the Spirit , the sons and daughters of the remnant of Israel prophesy.

@benryangarcia

4 жыл бұрын

@@travishanson166 But in Acts, Peter says pentecost is, at least to some degree, the fulfilment of that prophecy. And we know that women are to prophesy, considering verses like 1 Corinthians 11:5. Though we also know that Paul does not suffer a woman to teach, but to keep silence (1 Timothy 2:111-12). So it seems to me that teaching and prophesying are two different things. Is this a fair understanding of teaching and prophesying in the NT?

@travishanson166

4 жыл бұрын

@@benryangarcia prophesying is speaking God's word. Either repeating what is in the Bible, or like the prophets, direct revelation. But the key being that it is literally God's word, it has to be unquestionably truthful to be considered prophesying. The problem with Joel, is it says in Joel when, where, who and why. While the whole world is mentioned, it's only in context of the time when the remnant of Israel is gathered at mt Zion, in the Lord's Day. So either when Jesus sets foot on Zion, or shortly before and there after. It cannot apply to today, it did not apply to pentecost, even partially. There are promises meant for israel, and there are promises meant for gentile Christians. They are not interchangeable. Yes the church is grafted into Israel, but not right now. To make it clear, when anyone quotes scripture truthfully, they are prophesying. We are foolish people, to be given direct revelation today, right now, we would abuse it to our own glory.

@benryangarcia

4 жыл бұрын

@@travishanson166 If pentacost is not a fulfilment of that prophecy, what then do you suppose Peter means when he says in Acts 2:16 concerning pentacost: "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel", and proceeds to quote Joel 2:28? Let me state that I am not a charismatic, nor do I believe I have some direct revelation from God, nor do I equate the Church with Israel, but it does seem to me that scripture differentiates between prophesying and teaching. And it seems the majority of the time, prophesying refers to some form of clairvoyance (Luke 22:64; Acts 21:10-11).

@travishanson166

4 жыл бұрын

@@benryangarcia certainly the Bible differentiates prophesying and teaching. A teacher often prophesies (repeats the word of God), and one can repeat the word of God, without teaching. Teaching is done from a place of scriptural and spiritual authority. Not everyone is called to be teachers, but the Bible is clear as to whom we can consider teachers, if called. And I think I misspoke about what peter was referring to as it pertains to pentecost and Joel, and ironically I was listening to someone discuss just that. Pentecost fulfills one part of Joel. There are a few prophesies in Joel, pentecost was just one. If we rightly divide scripture, unlike many charismatics, we see that Joel doesn't apply to every day society today. But Joel will be fulfilled entirely, soon. Charismatics like to think it's happening and has happened so they can keep selling their false doctrines which amounts to getting high off of fantasy.

We are all commanded to share the Gospel. Paul is very specific about women being pastors because of the fall in 1Timothy.

@fluffybabybunny5822

4 жыл бұрын

no, not because of the fall

@gtolose

4 жыл бұрын

@@fluffybabybunny5822 well yes because Eve was deceived and Adam wasn't (Adam simply disobeyed - is that better?). Adam knew that God said to eat of that tree meant death. There is nothing in the text to say that he disbelieved God or that he was deceived by the serpent. But what could he do, he already knew had Eve had eaten of the fruit, and she would now die, he decided to go with her, against God. I don't want Adam to be portrayed as a noble creature who sinned for the love of Eve, because he disobeyed Gods clear instruction defiantly. God did not give him a partner to plot against himself but he did anyway. But the outcome according to Paul is that the deception weakness vs the defiance weakness placed Adam as the leader of Eve!

@fluffybabybunny5822

4 жыл бұрын

@@gtolose the deception card is easily proven false and most complementarians would reject it. There is plenty of scholarship on this, I don't think it deserves pursuing. Suffice it to say if you think women are more easily deceived than men and that's why they can't lead then you cannot claim that women have equality with men in any way (spiritual, in the life after this one, whenever) and that is definitely NOT biblical (it's Platonic and adopted from there by some early church fathers). I have no time for this notion - it's heretical and it's holders are to me divergent from from some of the core aspects of our faith.

@contrarian9999

3 жыл бұрын

@@fluffybabybunny5822 Your comments are fantastic. It's funny to me, the level of ignorance here. People take these verses in English, divorce them from an alien cultural context and then threaten anyone who doesnt agree with being a hell-bound heretic.

@user-wn8mc1yc1g

3 жыл бұрын

1. Women Are To Teach Women Titus 2:3-5 The older women likewise, that they be reverent in behavior, not slanderers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things- that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be blasphemed. 2. Women May Teach Men In The Assembly Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. 3. Priscilla Was Involved In Teaching Apollos Acts 18:25-26 This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things of the Lord, though he knew only the baptism of John. So he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Aquila and Priscilla heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately. 4. Women Are Commanded To Teach 2 Timothy 2:2 And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men [anthropus] who will be able to teach others also. anthropos (a[nqrwpo"), is used generally, of a human being, male or female, without reference to sex or nationality. Vine, W. E., Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words aner (ajnhvr, is never used of the female sex; it stands (a) in distinction from a woman, Vine, W. E., Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words "Man [anthropus] shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.' (Matthew 4:4) Genesis 5:1-2 In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created.

Well... the reason people focus on those verses is because Paul said something about it. It's not focused on often in church at all. 1 Timothy, considered as Scripture, goes back to Genesis as the explanation for why women can't teach... why? And if it is something that God says, what do we do with it? Paul was actually writing Timothy to give church policy, so it makes sense why we would go back to that in church policy today.

@suzannemartin6817

21 күн бұрын

But if Timothy was facing a bunch of cult teachings, Paul would have instructed him on specifically how to do deal with that. I have heard another scholar propose that much if that section was dealing with how to get rid of the Artemis cult influence.

Interesting, as always. Thanks for Dr. Wright and Justin for the content and insights. Much to consider and meditate upon. Wright's point at the end is true and convicting. I thought of Jesus' line about straining a gnat and swallowing a camel while studying related content earlier this evening.

@user-iz8np3vv4i

Жыл бұрын

I haven't seen this video. If you want a study, my essay on Deborah can be posted. She was a spiritual leader.

1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 14:36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

@littleredcelt

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for pointing out Biblical truth!

Anyone know anything about how Paul may have been mentioning women to be quiet to differentiate them from temple prostitutes to the Greek god Artemis in Ephesus?

@roblane5699

2 жыл бұрын

1Tim 2:13-14 lets us know that Paul wasn’t admonishing women to be quiet because of some issue of the time. He referred back to the original intent of GOD in the creation, before there were any cultural issues. 1 Timothy 2:13-14 KJVS [13] For Adam was first formed, then Eve. [14] And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Sorry for responding so late, but I hope this helps you.

@stevendobo4059

2 жыл бұрын

@@roblane5699 Thanks. It does.

@roblane5699

2 жыл бұрын

@@stevendobo4059 Anytime brother GOD Bless

@stevendobo4059

2 жыл бұрын

@@roblane5699 it can be a divisive issue, but many times people are not willing to hear the historical sources that help understand what was going on in Ephesus at that time.

@roblane5699

2 жыл бұрын

@@stevendobo4059 I understand the point that people make about the cultural issues present in Ephesus. However, I always submit that the Eternal Word of GOD transcends any temporary issue that may have existed, because scriptural principles are unchanging no matter the time period. The principle that Paul was standing on is GOD’s order of headship, which has been the same since the beginning of creation. He also states it in 1Cor 11:3 The problem is that most can’t see GOD’s principles because they are too focused on the culture. Basically, societal cultures change but GOD remains the same

I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea. Where does it say Deacon ?

@justinperez1972

3 жыл бұрын

The word for servant is deacon. This just confirms that women are to be involved in the ministry of the church but it doesn’t say anything to women being pastors/preaching.

@donaustin7374

3 жыл бұрын

@@justinperez1972 no

@colinbrown9476

3 жыл бұрын

Greek word translated “minister” is the same Greek word for “deacon”

@houseofyahweh3785

3 жыл бұрын

@@justinperez1972 nope a servant means to help, where dO y’all get that stuff from

@555pontifex

3 жыл бұрын

@@houseofyahweh3785 If you can't read Greek, you have nothing to say here. THE GREEK TEXT CALLS HER A DEACONESS.

May God bless you with wisdom beyond what you are professing today.

The greatest book ever written, inspired by a mind wiser than we could possibly conceive, and yet even seemingly intelligent people can’t understand it and agree on a point which, on the face of it, should be pretty straightforward.

@petethorne5094

4 жыл бұрын

Barry Mann agreed. We should give all our money to the poor.

@falcon759

4 жыл бұрын

And all because of a three-letter word: sin

@God.sDaughter

4 жыл бұрын

What can we agree upon? The Bible was written by a bunch of narcissistic misogynistic men.

@fluffybabybunny5822

4 жыл бұрын

@@God.sDaughter I can see why you think that, but I'd change it to: the bible has historically been translated and interpreted by a bunch of narcissistic misogynistic men. And quite a few of them are crapping on ad nauseam here. Further to the original comment to claim that an English translation of a diverse 2000+ old plus collection of ancient documents 'should be straightforward 'is patently idiotic.

@contrarian9999

3 жыл бұрын

@@fluffybabybunny5822 Exactly.

Thank you for your wisdom and knowledge and understanding... and is sharing with all of us. I really need this and lifted up today! God blessed with this message. Please pay attention! Not to judge other servants of God Almighty who called to do what God has purpose for it and they are obeying to Him! It is not easy but it is right thing to obey God’s calling. Judging and prosecuting is very dangerous thing to do!

@DW_Kiwi

3 жыл бұрын

No. You have it wrong. We as believers are to judge the word spoken by others. To check the scriptures to see if what they say is true. To be "Bereans"

@DiamondInTheRough.

2 жыл бұрын

@@DW_Kiwi Yup, for scripture says we to can judge those in the church and God will judge those outside the church 1 Corinthians 5:12 🙏🏼

@DB-dl5zm

2 жыл бұрын

All who are called servants of God are true; Jesus warned about ravenous wolfs in sheep's clothing that would destroy the flock! This man is a deceiver.

@biblicalanswers1019

Жыл бұрын

The Scripture(Rom 16:1) you're referring to said "Phebe our sister" , not phebe our pastor, not phebe our prophetess, not phebe our deacon. But phebe our sister. Teach the truth, the word is truth. Dont change it. It is what it is. It means what it said. if it doesn't suit your beliefs, then change what you believe to suit it. Paul spoke by the Holy Ghost, and the Holy Spirit can not make a mistake, why would God say through him, "i suffer not a women to teach not to be an overseer over the men", then the next day, turn around and say, "I'm sending phebe up to the church of Rome to give a sermon". A sermon is speaking. Women can't give sermons, she can speak... in the church. It never said nothing about speaking outside the church, but it said she cant speak inside of the church. The word calls for her complete obedience in this matter. Not rebellion. It's not that she can't do it, it's that she shouldn't do it. I'm sure women or just as cappable of speaking scriptures in the pulpit, but God said she cant give a sermon, she cant speak... in the church, and not one church, but all the churches, he said. All. "1Corinthians 14:33 (kjv) For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as 👉in all👈 churches of the saints. 34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is 👉not permitted👈 unto them 👉to speak👈; but they are 👉commanded👈 to be under obedience, as also saith the law." And the law doesn't permit a women to be a preist, and the priestly ministry was given over to a pastoral ministry when Jesus came. Also in Gen 3:16. GOD Put the man to be the overseer of the Women. Which is a type and shadow of Christ being the head and his elected church. So how can a woman get up on the pulpit and claim(usurp) authority over a congregation full of men?. That's against God's divine plan. I may not like it. But i must believe it. "1Timothy 2:12(kjv) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” If a aged women wants to teach, she can teach younger women(Titus 2:3,4), not men, that's biblical, and not from the pulpit either. Because she cant speak(give a sermon) inside the church. 1 Corinthians14:35 (kjv) ... for it is a shame for women to speak 👉in👈 the church.” God thinks it's shamful. There must be a reason. I may not know or understand completely why, but i trust Him. You should to. God's word is infallible and it is always right, regardless of if we agree with it or not. Dont let satan cause you to believe a lie (2Thess2:11 - 2Chron18:21)

This is one of the reasons given for Paul's position on women not teach, nor to usurp authority over the man 1 Timothy 2:14 (KJV) And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. So it is obvious that this same reason would apply to all churches. There is a reason the serpent approached Eve to make his argument and not Adam. We were created with different strengths and weaknesses for different roles.

Grear explanation! We need to go beyond "American" Views on this kind if topic, because as Dr Wright says there is normally a cultural reason for some kind of exégesis

Great discussion. Absolutely loved this. Reading all of God's Word to hear what He's saying is extremely important. On this matter, I always refer back to Judges 4 & 5.

@proudhon100

Жыл бұрын

Deborah was a judge in the absence of a man but she appointed a man to lead the army. This is a rare example of a woman in a leadership position. The only Israelite Queen (apart from consorts) was Athaliah who was not a legitimate occupant of the throne (2 Kings 11).

@rolltide9547

Жыл бұрын

Judge is not a Pastor.

@proudhon100

Жыл бұрын

@@rolltide9547 Exactly.

@gealyca

Жыл бұрын

@@rolltide9547 Pastor is a modern term. But it's drawn from Latin for shepherd. And as I read of judges, they did shepherd the people. So, in my opinion, a Judge was indeed a Pastor.

@rolltide9547

Жыл бұрын

@@gealyca let me prove you wrong real quick let's see if judging makes you a preacher. 1 Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?” So it is say saints shall judge the world so does that mean every Christian is a preacher? Read your Bible watch this video at ta starting at about the 2:40 mark.

Witnessing is not preaching!

@littleredcelt

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly.

@denisenoe7746

3 жыл бұрын

Preaching could be seen as a form of witnessing and vice versa.

@berhegbmedia1274

3 жыл бұрын

Actually witnessing is the center of Jesus message. His first message was Matthew 4:17. That is the center whole Jesus ministries in the entire Bible. When you say witnessing is not preaching, then you wrong. You probably check for your understanding. It doesn’t matter what I say or somebody say but Jesus Christ message and preaching was the center of witnessing people, to get to the promise land Heaven. God bless u in Jesus name

@jordan7985

3 жыл бұрын

@@berhegbmedia1274 facts. Disciples were called to be witnesses… wouldn’t be very good at that if they didn’t preach

@berhegbmedia1274

3 жыл бұрын

Well, witnessing is preaching?? When Jesus was preaching love , he show it by caring for people Matthew 9:36 and then died for them. This is a witness of love by living it. A word is just a word if you could not back it up by your life. As a Christian follower of Jesus Christ our life is a witness Matthew 5:14. Character is more important. Jesus attract sinners more than any body the reason is he doesn’t see their sin he sees who they are John 3:16. My point is our life is a witness. It is not just a word Galatians 2:11-14. So we preach life with our life not our word. Witnessing is not talk on the street but living it. I am not saying talk on the street is wrong but witnessing is more than that. John 13:31-35. Witnessing is preaching with your life not just words. More blessings

Rev.3:14.

Am sure Peter was referring to this age,when he said that Paul 's letters of revelation on the gospel would confusion to extent of 😢

I am really thankful to N.T. Wright for being such a genuine and humble and inspiring person and as much as I love and respect him, I don't believe he did justice to this topic (merely based on this video - I haven't read the book). If anyone is genuinely interested in going deeper into this topic (not just the 1 Timothy passage but all passages in the Bible that touch upon women), I recommend the book "God's Word to Women" by Katharine C. Bushnell, a scholar of Greek and Hebrew, written a hundred years ago. It can be so easy to assume we already know everything there is to know about what the Bible says about women, especially if that view is convenient for us, but I believe that anyone seeking the truth will read all available sources to find out the real truth. I really respect N.T. Wright for at least not settling with the accepted way of looking at these passages and trying to understand what Paul is actually saying, and I believe that anyone who reads the book I recommended might just be pleasantly surprised ;-)

@livingbyfaith5280

3 жыл бұрын

WOW! This guy clears this matter up. You got to watch this! Let me know what you think? kzread.info/dash/bejne/do6ntZJ9oa2Yirw.html

@DrDoerk

Жыл бұрын

You shouldn't just take one side..... you should analyze both. Mike winger has a great video series analyzing both sides of this argument. If you watch it, you'll learn alot of really good stuff!

Two things apply here: Galatians 3:28, and the idea of 'leaders'. There are no leaders in the Christian church. We are all servants. We serve in different ways. We are led by the Spirit and informed by the word of God. We've got to get away from this puffed up worldly idea of 'leaders'. It comes from the arrogant lexicon of business and politics and is as unworthy of the church as Israel wanting to displace God with a mere king who would (and did) introduce corruption into their land. So, we have ministers of various kinds. Some organise, others administer, some teach, others clean the auditorium, some pastor/counsel and pray with others. Some conduct/facilitate/organise/convene study and prayer groups. Others (in the episcopal churches) wear fancy dress for our entertainment. NO ONE IS A LEADER. There are no 'roles' for men and/or women. Sure there are biological functions and their concomitant relationships. But my wife and I don't have 'roles' like we live in a business. We mutually serve and support each other according to our interests and gifts. The head of our house is the Spirit of Truth.

@abrahamvazquez5079

3 жыл бұрын

Watch wretched

@biblicalchristtv5717

3 жыл бұрын

Hmn! God bless you sir. As a complimentarian, I can't agree more. I know according to God's word, me are the head of the home but that's servant leadership where he puts the wife's needs first not boss dictatorship as some cultures assumes it to be or what ' I hear' is obtainable in the so called religion of peace. May the good Lord help us all. Amen

@humblednature9593

3 жыл бұрын

Well said!

@sharplikecheddar2

2 жыл бұрын

The only problem with your answer is that the Bible time and time again dictates roles for men and women. This doesn't mean one sex is inferior to the other but roles do exist. Now get control of your household, your beta-maleness is spilling all over the place.

N.T Wright, if's, but's and maybe's about women reading letters in Rome V hard written Holy writ saying they are not to lead. I'll go with Holy writ!

11:33 - 12:43 Can someone please help me out here, what's the technical term for the fallacy Tom is using here?

@Daniel-fv1ff

4 жыл бұрын

I haven't made up my mind about all this stuff yet, but one could argue that it's ad hominem. Arguing against the person / people, rather than the argument. Whether these people are sufficiently generous has nothing at all to do with what the correct interpretation of Timothy 2 is.

@austinmengarelli7269

3 жыл бұрын

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

@soldieroftruth77

3 жыл бұрын

The colloquial term is “whataboutism”.

The same people who lay down the law about women and silence, say to us, 'Spiritual gifts' do not apply today. Please square that circle?

@kavumamartin7281

4 жыл бұрын

The spiritual gifts apply today....

@CGdone

4 жыл бұрын

Lol, good one!

@boopsnootandboogie

3 жыл бұрын

So true. It always does seem to be the cessationists. They're practically writing off half of the New Testament but I'm the one in huge error. I won't even argue or debate with them.

@Phill0old

3 жыл бұрын

@@boopsnootandboogie Well if there are still apostles and prophets going around healing the lame, and the blind and the deaf where are they? Jesus healed all who came to him, the Apostles healed men crippled from birth. If you think we still have apostles then you think they're are men alive who have seen Jesus and can write scripture. Do you really think that? That these things reduced and then ceased once the Apostles were fine is quite clear. The miracles were to attest to the truth of this new message. Now we have the scriptures. If you disagree can we meet at my local hospital and you can prove me wrong? Until you can your claim that they are still here is just vocal nonsense.

@GI4JYT

3 жыл бұрын

@@boopsnootandboogie Oh, don't ever be afraid of a discussion, that is how I learned my way round scripture etc as a visually impaired person. Cessationists think thay have a monopoly on what scripture teaches when in fact it is 'spiritually discerned' 1 Cor 2. Lots of Christians shy away from difficult issues which keeps large numbers of people in church denominations in ignorance! How do you think that men like the late Ravi Zacharias got away with immorality for years when he was alive?

"A female pastor is imposed on a conservative Baptist church in rural Georgia and all hell breaks loose." I highly recommend this novel by Randall Arthur. It's called A Quiet Roar.

@Eddy-iv3qv

29 күн бұрын

There's NO such thing as a female pastor.

Thank you, NT Wright, for your insights into women in ministry. The view of women as ministers delivering the message of the resurrection has been going around for decades yet made little impact in the thinking of church men. I think referring to Genesis 3 curse would make your points even more powerful: - Everywhere in the world women fair worse than men, largely due to the troubled relationships predicted. - As a result of the curse, men have become hardwired to think that that ideal status of women BEFORE the fall is what they have made it since the fall. They think that the Hebrew for "helper" in Genesis 2:18 means servant, rather than the way it is used in the Psalms as "rescuer" or advisor. Jesus came to destroy the curse. As we endeavor to lighten the curse of hard work, so we should endeavor to lighten the curse of subjection against women. Equality is what they had before the fall and will have eternally. (Revelation 22:3) A good apologetic book on this topic is by Rebecca Merrill Groothuis, "Good News for Women."

@user-iz8np3vv4i

5 ай бұрын

Neither the man nor the woman is cursed in Genesis. Only the serpent and the 'ground'. The curse on the ground was lifted later in Genesis. Since a woman could be a pastor in the Old Covenant, a woman can be a pastor in the New Covenant. Simple really. I suggest my short and free essay on Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles, by God. A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin. A Judge was cleared to teach from scripture as he/she gave a verdict, according to Deuteronomy. Since in Judges 4, men went to Deborah to be judged, a woman could teach men, even in the Old Covenant in a public setting.

@christianfrommuslim

5 ай бұрын

@@user-iz8np3vv4i We don't understand how you can say that about the curse of Genesis 3 if you have read it recently. We did a video on women prophets, especially because Islam denies them, but it addresses the issue. The link is below if they don't block it:

@christianfrommuslim

5 ай бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/q45_qsx6h5i-h7A.html

@user-iz8np3vv4i

5 ай бұрын

@@christianfrommuslim Were Adam and Eve cursed due to the fall? First what, SPECIFICALLY, was cursed is what is important to know. The serpent was cursed. The 'ground' was cursed. __________________________________________ Then the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, Cursed are you more than all the livestock,... -excerpt Genesis 3 __________________________________________ Then to Adam He said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’; Cursed is the ground because of you;... -excerpt Genesis 3 _________________________________________ The curse on the ground was prophesied to be lifted by Lamech. Now Lamech lived 182 years, and fathered a son. And he named him Noah, saying, “This one will give us comfort from our work and from the hard labor of our hands caused by the ground which the Lord has cursed.” -excerpt Genesis 5 Noah name meaning = rest Then Noah built an altar to the Lord, and took some of every kind of clean animal and some of every clean bird and offered burnt offerings on the altar. The Lord smelled the soothing aroma, and the Lord said to Himself, “I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man’s heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done. -excerpt Genesis 8 Was Adam cursed? NO Was Eve cursed? NO _______________________________ To the woman He said, “I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you shall deliver children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.” So women now experience great pain in childbirth, yet there are more people on earth now than have ever been in the earth's history. In the natural view of things, the strong dominate the weak. Strong animals over the weaker. Strong countries over the weaker. The physically stronger gender over the weaker gender. There is a natural tendency for men to want/need to rule over women, even though both genders are equal before God. Regardless, neither men nor women are cursed. Genesis 5, which comes after the fall of mankind (in Genesis 3) says this below: This is the book of the generations of Adam. On the day when God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them “mankind” on the day when they were created. In Genesis 1 below we read this: So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” Obviously, the earth has more people than ever in its history. Obviously, the earth is subdued. Trees cut. Rivers dammed. Gold and oil extracted, etc. __________________________________________________ CONCLUSION Natural tendencies changed regarding men and women after the fall. Natural physical changes also. Women were not cursed. Men were not cursed. Men and women are still blessed.

Outstanding misinterpretation of the word and an outstanding audience buying it wholesale online

@lucmalafarina1807

6 ай бұрын

I agree 100%

@suzannemartin6817

21 күн бұрын

What is my role in the church as a woman? What am I allowed to do. What areas am I allowed to serve in? What spiritual gifts do women receive (since they clearly must not get any that require a voice). I sound angry but more frustrated. So many are happy to tell me what I can’t do and what gifts I clearly don’t have cuz I’m a woman but these same people never can answer the questions I posed above. Perhaps you will. Please include Scripture-and at least two because the Bible teaches us that in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall all things be established.

Notice how he didn’t even speak from the Bible he just gives his own ideas

@dougrea

3 жыл бұрын

He was using a Greek NT. For me all I heard was a discussion that was loaded with scripture and intelligent forensics which is also a biblical commission

@lanadelkae351

3 жыл бұрын

@@dougrea women can’t be pastors period. Argue with God not me

@dougrea

3 жыл бұрын

@@lanadelkae351 I don’t disagree I was merely commenting about whether or not he used scripture. But I can tell by your dogmatic reply where are you stand. Someday read behind Jesus when you have time. He just walked around telling stories as well and he often times quoted scripture.

@Laughy-Flaaffy

3 жыл бұрын

I don’t agree with NT Wright on this issue, but he definitely did use Scripture here.

@bigtombowski

3 жыл бұрын

@@lanadelkae351 You do not have permission to teach the men here then Titus 2v4 Then they can urge the younger women(H) to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled(I) and pure, to be busy at home,(J) to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands,(K) so that no one will malign the word of God.(L) *Ignore verse 9 though because slavery is bad*

´´Highly selective view of scripture.´´ Women must keep silent in church. But what about ´´your sons and daughters will prophesy´´? Who is being ´´highly selective´´ now? A woman must not prophecy with her head uncovered. Clearly if she was decently dressed according to the customs of the day, she could pray and prophecy in meetings. So clearly women must sometimes keep silent and sometimes speak out. Who is using a highly selective view of scripture? Strict traditional legalists for nearly 2000 years.

@frankm6546

4 жыл бұрын

You are going to hurt some people’s heads here with your logic.

@LeoRegum

4 жыл бұрын

By strict logic Paul does not say women may prophesy with a covered head, only that they may not with an uncovered one. He forbids it absolutely in chapter 14. Beware any man who comes to you with a 'new' interpretation of Scripture.

@frankm6546

4 жыл бұрын

@@LeoRegum If we truly lived by that logic, then not only would the Reformation never happened, but Christianity wouldn't exist because the Apostles had a "new" interpretation of the Hebrew Bible that pointed to a crucified Messiah instead of a military ruler like King David. In Israel's story over and over and over again they thought one thing but God meant to do something else and we as the church are descendants of Israel. What is true of them is true of us. I pray that Jesus' church has the humility to be discerning about things that may be scary for us to wrestle with.

@LeoRegum

4 жыл бұрын

@@frankm6546 The reformers quote extensively from the Fathers; they were not bringing about novel teachings and stress as much in their writings, if you would read them. The fact that God-appointed Apostles had the authority to bring about revelation is entirely irrelevant unless you claim to be such a one.

@frankm6546

4 жыл бұрын

@@LeoRegum Before you read my reply I want you to know that I see you as a sibling of mine in Christ, regardless of your denomination or theological stances, as long as you see yourself as a disciple of our Lord Jesus. I won't be replying to more comments, so please have the final say in our discussion. I look forward to learning from you. To address your statement, yes the reformers quoted very extensively from the early church fathers.....to show that the medieval catholic church had strayed from the original teachings of the Gospel so far that the church needed reforming! I've read quite a bit of the ECF, Justin Martyr being a favorite of mine. Instead of taking any interpretation of scripture that is different from yours as a "heretical new teaching", I pray that we can continue to come together and have conversations about what all of these writings mean in the language they were written in (Greek) and in the context they were written in (1st century Jewish thought translated into Greek writing). God bless.

This kind of insight is what "reasoning the word" is all about. This is taking the word, at its word.

Very based take

Agreed! 💯

@bigtombowski

3 жыл бұрын

You may have a vested interest given you are a woman with a ministry lol

This was a master class in obfuscation.

@sharplikecheddar2

2 жыл бұрын

First I had to look up the definition of obfuscation. Then I literally laughed out loud.

@mmvilaw

2 жыл бұрын

@@sharplikecheddar2 lol

@Thinkagain21

Жыл бұрын

An Anglican trait!

Mike Winger says hi.

9:42 as a Pentecostal I thought he was speaking in tongues! 😂

@xndrrh

Жыл бұрын

😂lol

I will never understand how people can completely ignore scripture regarding this. What I have been told is women used to scream out in church and this is the reason it was said women are to be quiet in churches but how do you ignore 1Timothy 3:1-13and 1Tomothy 2:12?

@peachy_talisman

3 ай бұрын

You should watch other videos where he discusses this, they're very enlightening. You're not going to get his entire argument and biblical evidence for it in a 12 minute video.

@suzannemartin6817

21 күн бұрын

Are we ignoring it? Or are we trying to understand it in light of actual historical cntectvthst May offer us a different perspective!

Galatians 1:6‭-‬10 ESV "I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel- not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ."

@markanthonymarla

2 жыл бұрын

Are Women Preachers Biblical? '' NO '' !!! ... kzread.info/dash/bejne/eZuew6R8nLiZgNo.html

If we see supposed regressions in understanding, we should probably not look towards our brothers faults, but rather ourselves. Did we perhaps push to fast for social change before the actual conciousnesses of people were able to transcend their fallen nature sufficiently? There is a perfect moment to introduce changes, when people are ready to be inspired in the right direction. For ordained women that would require really ordered and hierarchy accepting women, and men who can humiliate themselves willingly to a lower status than their natural abilities would have them "deserve", and accept even wrongful correction from a woman as they do from men naturally. These two things really go against fallen nature, which still habitually enslave us still. Our guides in our hearts must be, both men and women, are we doing this as an actual act of love for our neighbour rather than our own desires for how things should be? If that is not what is driving things, it will not work, and we'll see it collapse on itself and make things worse.

Mike Winger has done a great explanation of these arguments. NT makes some assumptions here!!! Although he does sound really wise we have to go through the scriptures and see if they are saying what NT is saying. Not all of his arguments actually hold up!!

@jjreddog571

Жыл бұрын

Acts 17: 11 is a good rule of authority in checking out everyone's message.

@stephenthompson9722

Жыл бұрын

@@jjreddog571 Yeah it's ironic that you sent me a single verse because we can't make a decision on one verse we need to keep reading and reading :)

@jjreddog571

Жыл бұрын

@@stephenthompson9722 Try reading the verse, you apply it to everything you hear from everyone, that is why it is there.