This is a recipe for a class action lawsuit. People bought the trucks with stated expectations that now Ram says it can not handle. There are going to be people who fail to get the news

@jeffs2809

Жыл бұрын

Ram can just say it was a software issue🤷‍♂️. Either before when they were higher or now. I suspect a combination of both. There’s probably some sort of disclaimer on the page, too, saying they aren’t responsible for incorrect information, see dealer for official ratings. Or some other lawyer speak.

@Kruppie_

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. This happens quite a bit, though. Not in this way, however. Ford changed the torque spec for lug nuts on some of their vehicles a bit ago.

@kmilohernandez686

Жыл бұрын

When I bought my 2021 1500 bighorn quadcab, it was able to tow 7011 pounds since the ram app, then I checked the same app and said 6800 pounds. Very weird

@SkinnySkinch

Жыл бұрын

Even worse class action lawsuit will come when people actually tow 35k+ lbs on a civilian truck and kill themselves and others on the roads.

@Cloud30000

Жыл бұрын

Sure, and if we are lucky RAM will settle giving each owner a $5 gift certificate while the lawyers get millions. Class actions have rarely ever meant anything to the owners, especially when so many qualify.

Same thing happened with my Ram 1500. 2 years ago, it showed 10550 tow capacity, now it shows 9930. I noticed this last year when looking at trailers.

@robertryan7204

Жыл бұрын

I think all US Pickup Truck towing ratings are exaggerated for publicity purposes desite J2807

@tonysketch

Жыл бұрын

How did you notice the change?

@rosafamilyrvadventures4700

Жыл бұрын

Same here... mine dropped too from 10393 lb to 10220 lbs tow capacity payload didnt change

Andre one thing I did not hear you guys mention: how could this change impact liability? You bought a truck last year & confirmed 20K towing for your hot-shot business, have an accident today & the insurance company says you were overloaded & denies coverage? Worse yet, if someone got hurt? 😬

@84Prerunner

Жыл бұрын

Insurance and DOT don’t go off OEM specified tow limits with a CDL. as long as you are within GVWR, GAWR and fire rating for everything including trailer you are fine.

@miker6472

Жыл бұрын

I suspect the best case for a lawsuit would be showing you paid extra for options that would increase your tow rating to a point. Then prove that the vehicle/options you paid for were falsely represented and thus you spent money you otherwise wouldn’t have. Also could claim that resale on the truck is impacted because if you are looking to tow you would spend more on a truck with a higher rating and now that your rating has decreased your vehicle is worth less.

@byteaquaponics

Жыл бұрын

I'd suspect in the event of a death this would really be under a microscope. Insurance would probably be required to payout.

@duramaxadventures5832

Жыл бұрын

@@84Prerunner yep manufacturer's GCWR are recommendations. (until you reach teh legal weight limit)

Odd that this change is just being reported after one of their trucks got a lot of attention for breaking in half when being pushed up against it's limits.

@Jackmerius_Tacktheretrix

Жыл бұрын

Ive seen a few that had frames break lile this. Very surprising!

@kmonto1971

Жыл бұрын

Not just their trucks as in 1500 up, but even the jeep gladiator is having problems with the frames.

@Cloud30000

Жыл бұрын

That is payload, which hasn’t changed.

@aaronbritt2025

Жыл бұрын

That broken frame was a payload issue. Payload numbers haven't changed, just towing numbers. The broken frame was not cause by a towing capacity issue.

@nihonhikikomorikyoki

Жыл бұрын

lol, if we're talking about the same truck, the frame that broke in half was on a truck that was quite literally thousands of pounds over payload with a lot of that weight being behind the rear axle...the guy wrote an article himself saying his truck (a highly optioned mega cab 3500 dually) had a payload of 7800 lbs, which is the highest possible payload for the 3500 when correctly optioned, regular cab 4x2 w/ 6.4 hemi. His actual payload was much lower than that with the mega cab, options, diesel, and 4x4 all of which decrease your payload.

I just looked mine up on my Ram 4500 and it went down by 18 lbs from last year. Not much but strange!

@josenoyola9851

Жыл бұрын

Yours is probably using all options to take away from the base weight.

Thanks for the research and information. You guys are awesome!

How much you can safely tow is almost always limited by payload capacity to a lot less than your towing capacity, so in the real world those reductions probably don’t matter. It’s definitely strange that they are retroactively updating them but I would be surprised if it actually mattered for many people.

@genehart261

Жыл бұрын

It matters because if you are in an accident insurance companies can and will use these numbers to deny coverage.

@ScottenJonesVideo

Жыл бұрын

@@genehart261 You are misunderstanding my comment, I am saying it doesn’t matter because payload capacity will almost always limit how much you can tow to much less than the tow capacity rating anyway. Anyone towing something that maxes out their towing capacity is likely way over on their truck gross vehicle weight rating.

@Cloud30000

Жыл бұрын

@@genehart261 insurance uses GCWR, not the number listed in a broken website tool. If the website still showed 2k higher but that put you over GCWR, insurance will deny you.

@genehart261

Жыл бұрын

@@Cloud30000 that was actually my point even if somewhat misstated.

@ScottenJonesVideo

Жыл бұрын

@@genehart261 My point that I may not be stating well enough is that people tow at or near their tow capacity and think they are OK, but their tow vehicle is way over it GVWR and that is an equally big problem. I am not an insurance expert but I suspect that they will view exceeding GVWR on the tow vehicle the same way they view exceeding tow capacity. Tow capacity is calculated in a way that you can almost never achieve in the real world. For example there is a guy in this thread who says his truck has a towing capacity of 17,870 pounds and a payload capacity of 2,183 pounds. If you tried to tow a 17,000 pound fifth wheel you would have at least 3,400 pounds of pin weight plus the hitch is maybe 150, plus driver you are at 3,750 easy and your truck will be way over its GVWR. Even towing a travel or utility trailer you would probably be over since 10 to 15% of the trailer weight has to be on the hitch for it to be stable. Plus the hitch receiver is probably not rated for over 1,700 pounds. So again, my point is you can't exceed the tow capacity but in reality you probably can't safely tow anything close to it.

Thanks for not selling out, we all know you guys have friends at RAM which probably makes it harder to post stuff like this. I just moved up my patreon support from half ton to heavy duty which means I'll have to cut out one Starbucks drink a month 😆. Keep us posted, hopefully this wont affect too many people in that line of work.

Guy thanks to you I bought a 22 Ram spec to tow 10k plus just got back from a 45 hour drive towing my race car the Ram pulled great My version of the Ike went great thanks again

This is very strange. Thanks for making us aware of an unusual practice amongst some manufacturers.

On the Australian RAM site there is even more dramatic drops on towing capacity. Australian ADR regulations are pretty brutal as regards towing. Although not just RAM, but the Silverado and the to be introduced F150 will be affected.

I just tried to check my truck's ratings, and this feature of entering your VIN number on their website is no longer available. I used this feature on the day this video came out, 2/3/23 but as of 2/12/23 you can no longer try the feature. Maybe this sparked something at the RAM HQ to do some revamping of this feature.

Thank you guys for posting this video. This is most definitely cause for concern. Regardless of peoples opinions on whether or not a 2500 truck should or should not tow over 20k lbs, the fact remains that Ram continued to provide this tool as a source to determine the recommended towing capacity of each specific truck as identified by the VIN. Its a big deal that they just went on to change this tool and the recommended capacities without some sort of press release or at minimum an email to current truck owners. This is more likely to cause more backlash than if they had been up front.

I AGREE!! Tow capacity should be on the sticker on the door for every vehicle! You have to go through that pdf for Ford and GMC. I almost bought a RAM because of their website to check the tow rating by VIN. An owner should not have to guess towing capacity for safety reasons!!!

@mischiefroadtripadventures

Жыл бұрын

Our truck (GM) has a sticker on the door showing towing for bumper and for fifth wheel max weight. Does Ram not do that?

@willrector9716

Жыл бұрын

Gm is it is stated on the door jam on the newer pickups

@willrector9716

Жыл бұрын

@@bradleyspear167 yes they do

@gill998

Жыл бұрын

@Bradley Spear 2020 and up, gm does, I can show you mine if you want to argue further.

@samgford

Жыл бұрын

Gm absolutely clearly states the towing capacity on a door sticker... They covered it in the video...

This is crazy. But I do agree that the manufacturer should have the exact towing capacity of a vehicle by its Vin posted in the door jam just like the gvwr and payload capacity. I think Gm has been doing it for a while now and that's fantastic.

@84Prerunner

Жыл бұрын

It’s not there because it’s not a legally binding number. It used for things like warranty claims. Legally GVWR and GAWR are all the matters.

@CS-qc7np

Жыл бұрын

Wow! I thought every manufacturer did it. I only say that because I own GM vehicles, and at every DOT stop they check the door jam numbers against their numbers from the scale.

I have a 3500 Tradesman with the standard output Cummins (Same drivetrain as TFl's Ram 2500) and my capacity on the ram website has stayed the same. 4,060 payload and 20,090 towing, looked up right after seeing this video. I'm speculating that ram had 3500 towing numbers on the 2500 and the decrease in towing numbers is payload related (hitch/pin weight of the trailer).

@jedrzejgorski5437

Жыл бұрын

these comments are nonsensical, towing ratings for already registered cars stay forever.

Thanks for the information, it is very helpful. I have been shopping for a new truck to tow a travel trailer up to about 9500 lbs. I was hoping to use 1/2 ton to do this. On the website they were using there is another way to see max towing. If you select "Choose A Vehicle" it will take you to a page listing all the Ram models. Select "View Towing Results" and the next page shows all the sub-models. To narrow the choices there are filters that can be set, such as CAB/BOX, DRIVE, AXLE RATIO and so on. When I selected 1500 Crew Cab 5' 7" box, 4x4 and 3.21 Axle Ratio, 5.7 V8 Hemi eTorque the max towing comes up at 8110 lbs. Seting the axle ratio to 3.92 bumps the max towing to 11210 lbs. The problem is all the trucks on the dealer lots have the 3.21 axle ratio. The only exception is the Rebel model which comes with a 3.92 axel standard. It looks like my best option for a new truck is to order one.

@concernedamerican7409

Жыл бұрын

You want a 2500 6.4 with 4.10 ratio. If you're going to try to tow 9500lbs with a 1500 you will be disappointed and frustrated, even with a 3.92.

A big problem with this is for those that left a safety margin of say 10% now that may be gone or you may be overloaded. If you bought a bumper pull or 5th wheel RV trailer based on these numbers it’s not like there isn’t a cost to move to a trailer that meets the new numbers.

just checked my VIN using the Ram look up, on my 21 2500 Bighorn CCSB with Cummins, I screenshot it when i bought it a year ago and mine hasn't changed payload is 2183 with towing at 17,870..... I've been watching y'alls videos for years and was scratching my head when you bought yours and said it was rated at 20k, we have pretty much identical trucks, right down to the color lol...... keep up the good work!

Good video. Trying to figure this out on your own can be challenging.

Funny enough about a year ago I ordered a F350 which according to the Ford Towing Guide for '22 was showing like 18k lbs max tow for a 5th wheel. I went to check not that long ago and downloaded the current '22 Ford Towing Guide and now it is showing 20k lbs, so mine actually went up!

@robertryan7204

Жыл бұрын

Just proves J2807 is a bit of a fantasy

@jeffs2809

Жыл бұрын

@@robertryan7204 why is it fantasy? There’s several parts to the testing process, is it possible Ford made changes to something in the f350 options or retested to get a higher rating?

@robertryan7204

Жыл бұрын

@@jeffs2809 J2807 is not acceptable as a standard outside NA. As it has to many subjective elements. There are universal standards for Heavy Trucks not Pickup Trucks Globally

@jeffs2809

Жыл бұрын

@@robertryan7204 IDK, there are specific performance requirements in j2807 for acceleration, stopping & parking brake check on grade. I think there’s a test for cooling capability while accelerating up grade. I’m also pretty sure that most of the weights we’re talking about here, basically anything bigger than a Tacoma, will fall in the category of commercial or medium duty in a lot of countries outside North America. While j2807 may not be perfect, it’s leaps & bounds above what we had before, which was nothing. I’d be interested, though, in what these md, hd, & global standards are you’re referring to.

@robertryan7204

Жыл бұрын

@@jeffs2809 Think you stated it" better than we had before which was nothing". J2807 is not used for Heavy Trucks in the US,:they use Global standards for payloads and towing you could research what Freightliner, Navistar, Paccar use to determine payload and towing capacities Also look at the RAM Australia site, notice that a 1500 is rated at 9,900lb max towing.Also look at the reduced towing of the 2500 and 3500

Thanks for the informative video. My comment is not related to the subject matter - but it's related to your "Badass Wilson" sticker. Justin was a dear friend - so thank you for keeping his memory alive. That particular sticker is quite rare!

I have a 2018 Ram 2500. The website used to show the payload higher than the door sticker by about 150 lbs. Just looked it up and now the website by VIN agrees with the sticker. Towing capacity did not change.

@Redfour5

Жыл бұрын

It was known that the website was "off" for awhile on the forums... Then it was supposedly fixed. It is taking numbers that apparently in a database of all trucks by VIN but HOW the computer communicating through a search engine to an end user were messed up...

@riccochet704

Жыл бұрын

What's odd with my 2020 2500 is the website has always showed a lower payload than my door sticker. Website shows 2920 while my door sticker shows 3047. Towing capacity hasn't changed though.

I believe the towing number on my 2022 was around 19,800 before. I looked it up now and its 18,840 so it went down around 1,000lbs.

Mine dropped almost 4K! The dealer used the vin look up to assure me I was in spec for my camper. I have the screen shot. It may be time to call my attorney.

@firstlast---

Жыл бұрын

Do it

@clayton9309

8 ай бұрын

Have you tried it recently? The new ones I’ve checked seamed to be back up…. Curious what you get now???

I've towed over weight (private owner). Talk about the tail wagging the dog! The quick fix was to slow down, but if I were a corporate lawyer, I'd want a buffer built into the towing numbers rather than to count on a customer to have the sense to reduce speed. This could also have been a data entry error that has been corrected.

I just looked up my own truck on the website. It is a Ram 1500 Bighorn 2wd Hemi with a 3.92 rear. Unfortunately, I don’t have the exact towing number from last year because I lost the phone it was on but I remember it being about 11,850 lbs. it now shows 11,590 lbs. Not much and I don’t tow anyway. This is interesting though!

Andre good video, here's the long and short of this, my almost 9 years with GM Canada was when a customer buys a truck and it is rated to tow X 1000 lbs properly equipped by the manufacturers equipment requirement, HD cooling for trans, radiator and power steering , plus the HD suspension and brake upgrade at time of purchase , that is what is covered under MFG warranty and legally cannot be derated after the point of sale/delivery to the customer and this still stands to my knowledge in Canada, in the USA , I do not know , so this could lead to a possible class action law suit that would probably not be hard to win in court when there's documentation everywhere to support it, just my thoughts 👍

They should just use payload and let that number limit your towing capacity, if you are staying within the payload then you can only put a certain amount of weight before the tongue weight can no longer be adjusted by shifting the load. We already run into the reverse of that now with trucks that have a high towing capacity on paper but you will never reach that weight without going over the payload capacity.

@JOHNWAYNE1920

Жыл бұрын

Payload and towing are completely different. You don't cooling for payload. Gears don't affect payload.

@ronaldking1054

Жыл бұрын

No, did you notice that the vin towing rating was less than 10% of the payload? If I were to take a guess, the frame wasn't rated for the appropriate torque on the frame, which was also shown by the guy with the overloaded camper. What killed his frame was the torque from the end, which is basically equivalent to all towing weight.

GM started the best label that should be on all major pickup truck manufacturers. Its the SPECIFIC capacities based on the truck as its built. Towing capacity, GVWR, GCWR, tongue weights, curb weight and payload all in one place as equipped. The numbers in the brochures are always the max possible payloads, so say a crew cab short box 4x4 max of 2000lbs. But when you go look for that truck, its actually a WT with zero added options and base engine. The mid level trim truck you really like is actually 1800lbs payload.

Great information!! Great timing. As I was watching this video, I found the site and plugged in my truck’s vin. The answer is “ data only for the past 5 model years”. My truck is 2017 Ram Laramie 2500 6.4 hemi. 😒 From what I can find, my tow rating is around 10000 pounds. That’s the number I have been using for my reference. I have a 27 ft. Arctic Fox RV that I tow. Bumper tow. Factory weight 6500 pounds. I estimate that it is about 8500-9000 loaded including gear in the truck bed. Never had it weighed. Plan on doing that this coming summer. I appreciate your help in keeping us all informed about trucks.

Just checked mine... mega cab 3500 high output. Lost 315lbs max towing. Crazy. Thanks for the heads up.

the real problem is those that bought the 20K capacity to safely handle their 18K load and now the 18K load is over the new rating.

As someone from across the pond I'm surprised by a couple of things 1) the payload of around 2,000lbs on a vehicle with a towing rating of around 20,000lbs seem incredibly low. I look at my vehicle, it has a payload of 1100kg and a towing capacity of 3500kg. That's a higher payload but a much lower towing rating (for a vehicle that's a lot smaller than a RAM 2500). 2) why aren't the numbers written on the vehicle or on the registration document? I would expect to see maximum gross train weight marked on the vehicle data plate with everything else. Pretty difficult to change them then!

@Pesmog

Жыл бұрын

Tom, as you suggest, North American truck payloads always seem very conservative. The European Ford Ranger Supercrew/doublecab has a payload that is 900lb/400kg greater than the USA equivalent, and broadly similar differences apply across all the Rangers. The regulations in Europe prevent a towing limit war taking place by the manufacturers as they effectively limit all trucks to about 7500-7700lb (circa 3400-3500kg) for towing. If someone want's to tow more than that, then proper a commercial vehicle is needed.

@robertryan7204

Жыл бұрын

@@Pesmog Similar in Australia but it applies to payload. Tow ratings of US Pickup Trucks here are dramatically reduced due to Australian Design Rule( ADR) regulations

Thanks for the info... Need to review my "new" numbers.

just checked mine. Was 19,000 when purchased, and it is now 18,320 (2019 2500 Diesel)

When you got frames breaking in half, yeah they might want to lower those numbers

@omardevonlittle3817

Жыл бұрын

Lol. No.

@interpinto

Жыл бұрын

This is my thought as well.

@donhappel9566

Жыл бұрын

I think you meant to say "When you've got customers grossly over-loading their truck by thousands of pounds". I'm not a Ram guy, but let's keep the facts straight - the camper guy getting all the publicity was massively over-weight so can't blame Ram for that one.

@evictioncarpentry2628

Жыл бұрын

@@donhappel9566 not only over weight but improperly balanced weight

@gaberohrbach7542

Жыл бұрын

Last time I checked payload and towing are completely different

I just looked up my truck. 2022 RAM 2500 manufactured 8/21, purchased 7/22 and the towing capacity has NOT changed. Still rated at 17,790 lbs and 2,250 lbs max payload, per RAM's website using my VIN

I have a 22 Ram 3500 HO Cummins CCLB SRW and I didn't lose any capacity. I bet it has something to do with the transmissions. My payload is 4268 and 25120 lbs of towing

@imathreat209

Жыл бұрын

Damn those numbers are impressive for SRW

@throttleblipsntwistedgrips1992

Жыл бұрын

22 F-350 srw crew cab long box, My payload is almost 500 lb higher, (4,740) but my max tow rating is only 21,400🤔

@cameronwulff

Жыл бұрын

Mine has the same tow capacity oddly enough but less payload at around 3820

Worth noting that RAMs online tool only goes back 5 model years. So I can’t even check to see if there was a change on my 17

@jeffreese2251

Жыл бұрын

I have a 17 2500 also. I have a printed paper copy of the max trailer weight rating chart in my file from when I was doing my research on how much truck I needed to pull my trailer. For 2017 trucks, none of the numbers were over 20K on the chart regardless of configuration. The top number was a Reg Cab Long Box 4x2 68RFE 3.42 with the 6.7 at 17,980 max tow. with payload of 3,160. For reference you can swap to the 6.4 with 4.10 gears and max tow drops to 16,30 with payload of 3,990. I checked the tow capacity numbers on the site for current 2500 vs 3500 and looks like that is the difference. I say it's a software glitch that no one acknowledged when the numbers were inflated and showed how "strong" your truck was. I agree manufacturers should put this on the door jam as a standard practice.

@marcjampolsky5280

Жыл бұрын

Yup can't get it for 2015

@jedrzejgorski5437

Жыл бұрын

So US is such an s.hole that towing rating are not printed in the registration papers? BTW, once car is registered with given specs, it stays forever.

This is one reason that I always want at least 20% of extra overhead on my towing capacity. A 20k trailer seems to be on the high end for a SRW truck especially a 3/4 ton.

Great reporting!! This is what a free press is all about

I’m hesitant to buy the big change on the website until something official comes out from Ram. If you look at the bodybuilder guide, it still shows towing ratings from when the trucks were released. They are generic, but it still shows the tfl Ram at about 19,990. I find it hard to believe that you’d be expected to, essentially, check the website daily to see what your towing capacity is. Gm’s method of having everything on a placard is great and should be required on all vehicles.

Just curious what does your actual in the glovebox owners manual list for towing capacities?

Lol I like this channel even more now that I noticed that Tommy’s watch’s face is his Bernie 😊

Wow - some of these changes are significant.

Looks like mine dropped by about 500 to 1,000 lbs. 2021 2500 crew cab long bed with the 6.4 and 4:10 gears. It was definitely over 17,000 lbs towing when I ordered and received it and now it's 16,540. The other odd thing is the decoder used to have it listed correctly as a big horn, and now it says (Lone Star?) with the question mark included.

@mlkeclow1671

Жыл бұрын

Mine is big horn but said Lone Star as well.

@jedrzejgorski5437

Жыл бұрын

nothing dropped in already registered cars.

I think they were enhancing their numbers and something happened we do not know about that has caused them to change the number to try and avoid cupability.

@glenparks5175

Жыл бұрын

Yea the frames are bending and breaking

@omardevonlittle3817

Жыл бұрын

@@glenparks5175 evidence? or do you have those 2 anecodtes from over a million units sold the last 20 months

@engir63

Жыл бұрын

​@@glenparks5175 So this goes back to the last video where I said I would go buy an older truck from the 70s or 80s and put the other $30,000 in the bank. These trucks and cars are not made tough or with any quality, they are sold with looks and gizmos. In other words don't look under the makeup and D-cups and see that she is in poor health 🤣🤣🤣🤣 There is a video on this channel about 5 years ago of a high boy going up a hill that they use to test modern SUVs and 4X4s that some could not get up and some struggled. The guy was walking outside the cab as the Ford ascended the hill at idle in low gear and 4X4 low range, see if you can find it, what a great example of how old tech is better than new because then they built trucks to work and not just look pretty with gizmos for someone's ego.

@robertryan7204

Жыл бұрын

Towing capacity is used a lot in the US as part of the manufacturers publicity

@jaderhuff81

Жыл бұрын

@@omardevonlittle3817 look harder that dually that broke in half is all over the internet

Can you post the link to the VIN lookup? I have searched for it and cannot find it. Thanks for the great Video!

So I was curious and checked the numbers on my 19 rebel (1500). No change on mine. Just wondering if there was any changes to the 1500 line or just the larger trucks.

@markhiscock5530

Жыл бұрын

His opening line is "there's something alarming happening in the world of heavy duty trucks for Ram"

Noticed it on the Wagoneer as well

Can you confirm if this information is even available online currently? I can't find VIN specific payload and towing information anywhere on their website at this time.

What I don’t understand is that here in Europe, our mid size 2.0L diesel rangers are rated for 7500lb towing, which is higher than many full size trucks.

@stevenduhaime1484

Жыл бұрын

Could be due to the driving conditions and typical highway speeds in Europe vs the US. It’s not uncommon to see 40foot travel trailers being towed at 80mph (nearly 130kph) in the US. I don’t think many US states restrict speeds when towing.

@robertryan7204

Жыл бұрын

@@stevenduhaime1484 I am from Australia same 7,700lb ratings but 70 mph general speed limit, no limitatuons do too towing

The door sticker with the tow rating is fine, provided you are buying a (rare) prebuilt truck. We need to know what the ratings are going to be with our configuration BEFORE we order an $80k truck to tow with.

I just entered the VIN for my 2018 Ram 1500 with the Ecodiesel and the towing dropped from 8900 to 8400. The payload says 941 now and I don't remember what it was 4 years ago but I'm pretty sure it was over 1000. This is crazy. I pull a 26' 5th wheel that weighs 7000 lbs loaded which is 1400 lbs of pin weight which puts me way over my payload.

@paulamattiereed3728

Жыл бұрын

It happens sometimes i guess

I bought my 2022 RAM 3500 Laramie Dually with HO Cummins and Aisin in February of 2022. When I bought it I checked and my truck had 32,853lb max towing and 5,253lbs of cargo. I just checked it now and it dropped to 32,710lbs so 143lbs it dropped. And my cargo numbers are the same. So I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. To be honest, that first number in your video, over 20,000lbs for a 2500 seems high. So maybe there was a miscalculation on that truck. The 17,000lb number seems more legit. Carry on fellas! :)

As someone else said on here. I wonder if after several trucks now have had frame bending issues,they figured they needed to debate the numbers to protect themselves from litigation. Just a thought but wondering.

I have a 2020 2500 went from 17k to 14k this is ridiculous!

@jl4e23

Жыл бұрын

Wow. I would be panicking right now! What do you tow?

@mattd8263

Жыл бұрын

I own a dumpster rental business in south texas. My trailers have tandem 8k axles so maxed out about 16,000lb. I bought the trailers because the tow rating on my truck was right there now i have to worry about catastrophic failures.

Your limit probably depends on the tires they put on. Check out the low capacity on the power wagon with unsafe load range D tires.

@johnnicpon5783

Жыл бұрын

The Power Wagon has low capacity due to the soft suspension for off-roading. Same reason why you can't get the Cummins in a Power Wagon. If you off-road and don't care about that bone jarring ride, then get the new HD Rebel with a Cummins, it has higher capacity. So it comes down to personal preference. Good ride or high capacity. Physics does not allow for both!

anyone else notice the towing guide link is broken and/or missing from the RAM trucks website.. very interesting

Our 2020 ram 2500 dropped about 1800 in towing. And with the fuel pump recall looming, (still waiting in line after 8 months to get called into service), the great deal I thought I was getting at the time of purchase has slowly diminished. Damn RAM !!

I noticed that as well on my Ram 1500. I was already concerned about the payload capacity being less than the others. Now this happens. Looks like they are playing games with numbers at others expense.

This is troubling. My 2016 Ram 3500 dually is rated at 30,180 pounds towing capacity. And now I can't verify this number because the site only goes back 5 years. I'm sticking with the original numbers.

TFL out here doing the Lords work. Keep it up

The VIN search on my 2022 Ram 3500 shows a different payload than the sticker. My door sticker reads 4033lbs and the website reads 3890. Max tow is probably lower than when I bought it too, but I don't have a record of what that rating was. Curious to see how Ram responds to this.

The payload capacity is where most people go overweight with RV’s. Good to see that didn’t change. 20k lbs moving laterally is a lot of momentum for a pickup truck to bring to a stop quickly. It probably changes the load dynamics while braking

I’ve got a 21 mega cab in the Laramie trim and noticed mine drop from 17k and change to 14k and change as well.

I just checked mine. 2 months ago my 1500 was rated at just below 8200 lbs, now it shows 7900 lbs.

@jedrzejgorski5437

Жыл бұрын

your is rated at what it was rated when registered forever. Is really US such a mess that towing capacity is not printed in the registration papers?

Thank for this update and asking the hard questions.

The towing numbers now actually make sense. Before they were claiming towing numbers where the payload was only 10% of that number. The payload being 10% of the tow number is actually impossible to make work. My GM 2500 had over 3000lbs of payload and a towing rating of 18,500lbs. This was all about RAM trying to claim huge towing numbers without the payload to handle it, so they actually corrected their error.

Amen to door sticker with gcvr and max tow rating. Ford has a problem where the payload sticker in inaccurate and higher than the specs in their own pdf…idk if it’s all model years, but it lists the highest capacity of the model and not for how the truck is configured. Might be a sales tactic…when i saw almost 4k payload in 2022 base xl 250 (super cab and 8 foot bed) and sales guy pointed out the rear hitch says 18000, I got excited. Went home and realized it’s 2.5k payload and 12000 towing for that truck as configured…pretty bad considering my 10+ year old tundra 1/2 ton is 2k payload and 10k towing. IMO every single heavy duty truck should have at least 3k payload and 14k towing starting with the lowest trim and go to from there. You can even get a F150 with 14k towing nowadays.

Just a thought: On the 2500s, it looks to me like they basically subtracted the payload from the tow capacity to compensate for those that are overloading their vehicle by adding combing the payload and towing. I think they are meant to be separate. So, now if you max the payload and lowered towing together, then you get back to your higher number. Definitely strange whatever they are doing.

@ColeSpolaric

Жыл бұрын

If you max your payload you have zero towing capability.

@Shelbyj13

Жыл бұрын

​@@ColeSpolaric What??? That's not true at all.

@ColeSpolaric

Жыл бұрын

@@Shelbyj13 every pound of trailer tongue weight subtracts from your payload. 20k pound trailer with 10% tongue weight means 2000 pounds of payload you have to subtract. You cannot tow 20k pounds and expect to have 2k pounds of payload.

@Shelbyj13

Жыл бұрын

@@ColeSpolaric Correct but that's not how you said it. Towing capacity is whatever the difference is of your trucks weight and the GCWR. If that number is 20k, you can tow 20k as long as it doesn't put you over your GVWR in the process. Usually you go over your payload before you go over your towing capacity.

@SkinnySkinch

Жыл бұрын

@@Shelbyj13 That is EXACTLY true. Your payload includes the tongue weight. Your towing capabilities are maxed by your maximum tongue weight aka payload if that runs out before you hit max trailer weight.

So what happens if you get into an accident towing based on the specs at time the time of purchase? Does this mean your insurance company can deny a claim if you’re above the “current” rating?

My guess is the numbers they were giving out was for the 2WD trucks. 2200 lbs of towing capacity is 220 lbs of tongue weight at the standard 10%, and 210 lbs is about the weight difference between 2WD and 4WD.

Had a Ram mega cab 2018, and my rating changed, too. I just got rid of it. Don't have insurance to not be sure of rating. Is it rams with 68fre transmission?

After the in bed camper bent frame you shared, Ram figured out the frames can't handle the weight they claimed. I bet there are other damaged frames that haven't been seen by the public.

@Stackali

Жыл бұрын

the bed camper has nothing to do with towing capacity.

@NWI_Steel

Жыл бұрын

@Stackali tongue weight and payload is most certainly related to towing capacity

@alexreinhardt6971

Жыл бұрын

so your saying frame strength has nothing to do with towing? It has everything to do with towing. They are loaded very similar with a camper of center to the rear and the tongue weight on the hitch

@jaydengerber15

Жыл бұрын

That would be a payload change. Not a towing weight change

@hooptietime4427

Жыл бұрын

That was my concern too but now I’m surprised that their, already low, payload didn’t decrease as well. 🤔

Something I saw on the Ram trucks website as I am shopping for a new truck and debating between the 2023 Ram Rebel 2500 vs 2023 Ram Power Wagon. Do you know why it says the the 2023 Ram Power Wagon tows 14600lbs vs the 10000 in the 2022 Ram Power Wagon model. Given this new info, what new equipment has Ram added to the Power Wagon to tow 4000lbs more? With these new numbers, what vehicle would you recommend from the both Ram trucks mentioned above if towing capacity are the same at 14600lbs. I love both trucks and given this new data, the line in the sand has become blurry as to which truck would be the best for a combined off roading and leisure towing of a trailer? Your advice, guidance and reply would be greatly appreciated

Yep. Mine went 2020 RAM 3500 4:10 mega HO w/AISIN from 34,305 tow rating to 32880....WOW.

id like to see if the PDF version from a year ago changed - was this site error or actual reduction?

I just looked at the page for my Ram 1500 Limited and it hasn't changed since I bought it. Still the exact same number.

I own a 2017 Ram and I just went to the web site to see if my numbers had changed. The web site now says that it does not support trucks over 5 years old. When did they make this change? We looked up my sons truck 2016 to see what his ratings were about 3 months ago and it worked fine. If I'm not mistaken his truck would have been over 5 years old at that time.

@craiglasserre8161

Жыл бұрын

5 years old is out of the manufacturer warranty that is why is is no longer in the site.

Just checked my ram 3500, tradesman, DRW, HO. Same payload of 5100 but towing is down from 34,8 to 34 even. Doesn’t affect me since I only run up to 80% but, I want my 800lbs of leeway

I have a 2022 ram 3500. I just checked the Vin look up tool and my numbers did not change from when I bought the truck back in July

Also, I was under the assumption that all manufacturers have been using that newer SAE system for tow ratings. How could it be of proper spec, and then they find a reason to drop the numbers after the sale?

So is ram going to reimburse people who bought trailers based off tow capacity and are now over weight

I'm wondering if this issue is specific to Cummins diesel equipped Rams? I have a 2020 Ram 2500 Crew Cab 4x4 Bighorn with 6'4" bed, 3.73 gear ratio, and 6.4L Hemi. I bought it used last March and checked the towing capacity by Vin on the website then. It is unchanged today at 14,120 lbs. Oddly, though, I noticed my payload is off by 1 lb on the website as compared to the sticker in my door. Website says 2949 lbs, but the sticker says 2950 lbs. Not a huge deal by any means, but why would it be wrong?

The same thing happened to me on my 2022 Ram 1500 Eco-Diesel, Red, Limited Edition. It said 12,500 towing capacity when I bought it off the lot. They showed me when I was choosing my truck. Now it is at 7,900 LBS! That is ridiculous! That means that towing a small truck on a steel trailer is max payload now! I am pretty angry since I paid $108,500.00 for my truck and it only has 5,000 miles on it now. I could have bought any truck I wanted for that price! I would have bought the Cummins diesel 2500 if I would have known that!

@bizkillall

Жыл бұрын

I hope that's Canadian dollars you paid with.

@Offthechartsoffroad

Жыл бұрын

@@bizkillall unfortunately not. I am near Chicago and trucks were at the peak in October last year when I purchased it. Also it is a special edition with basically every single option available and I bought the longest and best extended warranty available.

@JN-iw5xk

Жыл бұрын

I tried to configure one and couldn’t get above msrp of 86k USA. Sounds like you bought a eco limited 4x4 with 3.21 gears instead of the 3.92 and the dealer was showing you the rating on a 2wd double cab 3.0 tradesman.

@kenhaze5230

Жыл бұрын

@@JN-iw5xk yeah, this is clearly a dealer fuckup, or lie.

@nealrugel5423

Жыл бұрын

I am currently shopping for a 1500 since mine got rear ended. My 2017 was in the 10,000 lbs range and handles my camper great. Now looking the exact same configuration for 2022-23 is 7500-8000 lbs. It makes no sense that what was advertised a year ago now is able to tow less. I love my Ram truck, but this isn’t adding up when it’s the same truck.

Is it just me or was that vin not blurry ?

@alexreinhardt6971

Жыл бұрын

They got rid of the last few numbers

@stevenkaesbauer2013

Жыл бұрын

@@alexreinhardt6971 gotcha. The other vins didn’t look like it though ?

Strange...guess the magic towing dust didn't hold? I just checked my VIN again and it stayed the same for now, still 34,095 lbs. That's a 21 RAM 3500 dually. Must be impacting more the 3/4 tons?

@glenparks5175

Жыл бұрын

Bet that rating on your truck is for a 2 door and not a four door do your research

@kenhaze5230

Жыл бұрын

@@glenparks5175 he checked the VIN. That number is going to be for his literal truck. There's no more research he can possibly do on his exact truck.

@TheRamGuy

Жыл бұрын

I have a 22 3500 CCLB SRW and mine stayed the same at 25,120. Wonder if it has to do with the 68RFE

@AdventureRocks

Жыл бұрын

@@TheRamGuy yeah maybe, I wonder

@donleamon8653

Жыл бұрын

@@TheRamGuy - Very little doubt. Unfortunately that is the weak link.

It looks like Ram finally came to their senses. You can’t have your tongue weight be all of your payload!

Wonder if the truck you guys showed with the bent frame has any thing to do with this

@robertryan7204

Жыл бұрын

Doubt it ,but you have to wonder how valid J2807 is?

It's changed because they been having so many mechanical failures, changed them to avoid class action lawsuits

Honestly the tow ratings have always been more of a suggestion. If the truck has a gvwr of 10 k the truck weighs 7800# that leaves you just 2200 pounds of payload. If you pull a goose neck that means Your max trailer capacity is somewhere around 11k. And with a pumper pull your closer to 19 k but most bumper pull trailers max out at about 16 k anyway. If you go over that most trailers change to a goose neck or 5th wheel setup. Me personally I have 2500’s to stay under the cdl requirements. So if the truck has a give of 10k my max trailer is 16 k. Anything over that you might as well move up to a 3500 or bigger because you now need a class A CDL

The website says “See dealer for more details.” Yet when you go to the dealership nobody knows ANYTHING! No dealer has ever been able to answer any question I’ve ever had. I get my info from online forums.

I'd like to get a second opinion, my 2020 F250 has the towing capacity listed on the hitch, and it matches the chart on the Ford website. Curious if that's the same for other Ford's.

What's odd is I had a 2021 and now 2022 like yours and always wondered where you got that 20k number from, both of mine are that 17k #

Towing numbers do change. Your max trailer weight is calculated by taking your GCWR and subtracting the base weight of the truck and any equipment you might have including the weight of passengers. So depending on how many people and their weight, what other equipment you have in the truck and truck bed will reduce your max towing capacity. What doesn't change is your GCWR. Not saying they should change on the website, but just keeping you from thinking towing numbers can't change.

I have a 22 2500 and when plugging my vin into the tool it says no data available. What could cause that?

I just looked up my 21 2500 Cummins Laramie & it say the tow rating is 16,740. I don’t recall what it was before but this seems significantly lower.

Now they too have removed or hidden the vin search bar on their website