I had to watch it three times to really understand what was happening. I really like the idea of it and will add to my back pocket for practicing.

@BetaClimbers

2 ай бұрын

Yeah it’s kinda an emergency 🚨 pull in. Hand over hand can be very fast as well (provided you don’t miss). Actually I should put that to the test and race myself 😂

You tricked me into thinking you weren't going to climb out!

That's why I belay barefoot so I can grab the rope between my toes to do this if I'm in aan overhanging multipitch with no ledges

@BetaClimbers

2 ай бұрын

🤣🤣🤣

Took a moment, but to clarify, this only works when the leader drops that extra loop of slack, not before. Normal taking up slack after a clip, for example, as the climber moves up, is easy and slow. When the dropped loop is falling with the leader, there is very little drag, as the entire rope is starting to fall and the bulk of it is coming down the route line. This short, half second interval(close enough) is all you have to work with, but once that loop has been pulled up, you can step on the rope ahead of an anticipated fall, without adding to the risk. If he makes the clip, you take a breath and belay normally. If he blows it, your only action is to do the slack lift as demonstrated, foot already holding the lower rope.

I will have to try this. But my guess is that friction will kick in hard on the brake hand.

@RockeroNato

2 ай бұрын

My guess as well

@plasmasquid

2 ай бұрын

Absolutely, hence the glove and it being an advanced technique. Def will take some practice to master but seems like a good one to have in the repertoire

@chaosengine4597

2 ай бұрын

@@plasmasquid my point was not about the burning potential, but about the muscle power required into some awkward direction. Maybe I should have clarified that in my original post.

Finally a new video! Yeah! 👍

For all those new to rope mechanics -> 1:59 isn't completely true statement. The statement holds true as long as the ropes are parallel in the same direction. The more angle there is between the ropes the higher the overall force gets. It follows an equation where: forceInRope = forceFromLoad/(2*cos(angle)).For 0° to 60° its really 50% load in single rope strand, for 90° degrees between the ropes the load per rope is 70%, for 120° its 100%, for 180° its infinity. In reality make sure that Josh1 and Josh2 (or your anchor points) are reasonably close to each other or the rope/anchor system is long enough towards the load. All that i like the technique very much - thx for sharing it Joshua ✌

@BetaClimbers

25 күн бұрын

Thanks for the clarification 🤙🏻

@jakubpipek2266

25 күн бұрын

@@BetaClimbers 😍♥️

If I hadn’t just taken a swift water course and seen a 3-1 system built, this wouldn’t have made a ton of sense but you did a good job demonstrating it. I’m excited to give it a try.

the physics involved are sound, but the timing required to get it right, plus the risk involved when getting it wrong (rope slipping in brake hand, especially with unassisted braking devices like a tuber) means i would do it only if the leader warned me of the incoming fall (ex. got stuck during move) when i had clear line of sight with them and a decking/ledge hit was certain... in a situation like you describe, where clipping is sketchy because of slack, i tell my climbing partners to just grab the quickdraw and milk it... because we are not professional athletes and no flash/redpoint/whatever is worth an avoidable injury

@Gunussy308

2 ай бұрын

Love it, but fractions of a second to bail on it

Sweet, leather glove might work even better too, move your left hand to the brake position after pulling in the slack. Gonna practice this on the ground, thanks this is awesome.

Great tip. Thanks!

Also just a good idea to not try to clip super high like that

@DevinH-64

2 ай бұрын

In general yes, but it's actually safer when dealing with ledges sometimes.

@dereinzigwahreRichi

2 ай бұрын

Sometimes it's the only halfway decent place to stand and clip... And sometimes you're just afraid to go on and want to do that clip before. ;⁠-⁠)

Josh, you're applying basic principles of physics into real life in a very useful way here, therefore I declare you an engineer! Cause that's what we do all day... ;⁠-⁠)

@BetaClimbers

2 ай бұрын

🤣🤣🤣

Awesome!

I don't think you should do this with a tube though. My guess is, if your rope hand is still up there while the rope engages to the fall, in that moment the rope will go right back through the tube, because the rope hand is not under the device line. With the usual method the rope hand goes above the device for a split second; with the demonstrated method it stays above the device line for quite some time, creating a larger time window where the tube doesn't brake, possibly even sucking your hand into the device.

@BetaClimbers great video! Glad you're uploaded again 😄. Doesn't look like you're all that "underground" any more though....🤣 sponsored by BD 😮‍💨

How would you compare this to just „running“ back two steps? I like the idea, but it makes belaying more static, as you cannot move your foot.

@BetaClimbers

2 ай бұрын

Sounds like a good video idea

Thanks for the video and great explanation! Would you consider a video on the Edlrid Ohm? Specifically, having trouble understanding how to soft catch using it. Even if there is slack between the belayer and ohm when a climber falls, it seems like it can't overcome the friction created by the ohm. Leading to a pretty hard catch. Also noticing that it is more difficult for the leader to pull up rope, even when slack exists between belayer and ohm. I'm sure some of that is normal, but it would be helpful to better understand the device. Most videos I can find just show it's intended affect. Can't find anything showing belay technique.

@BrianJagielski

2 ай бұрын

I'm a lighter guy, so I'm on the belay end when an ohm is in use, but both climbers I've used one with have reported no extra rope drag. Try standing closer to the wall, maybe step forward when feeding slack so the rope goes straight up through it. I doubt there's much you can do for a softer catch though. If the catches are always too hard, maybe you don't need to be using one.

@user-rb4nj2cb5n

2 ай бұрын

Thanks for the tips. I'll try some of this out with my belayer. We are still practicing with it indoors only until we fully understand its use.

Cool trick, but might be hard to get right when time is of essence

Sounds really advanced and situational. I can see doing this if I know that a sketchy clip is coming, but I feel like my reaction time would be too slow to react like this in an emergency situation. In most cases taking in slack should be good enough though. If the climber is on a solid clipping jug and falls anyway while clipping they would be in trouble though. At least on the second and third bolt in routes that have a rather classical approach to bolting. I don't think the taking in fast approacb would solve that though. Most routes here are bolted so that you have a solid clipping position and can then clip over your head. Falling in that situation is a no no.

Great explanation but i don't think that would work unless you A, have a perfect view of your lead climber and B you consciously prepare for that potential fall. Thus as someone eles mentioned you dont have a fixed hand on the dead rope. Great Idea in theory but not entirely sure it would work well. Plus the additional weight on the rope pulling up. Thank you for sharing.

When you pull out a rope, you don’t really want to make your braking strand parallel to the rope going from the belay device to a leader. It makes this technique quite complicated to execute properly and master. As if you want to pull 2 times more rope - rope between your leg and hand and the rope between hand and belay device has to be in parallel. So even if it’s more effective, there are more chances to mess it up. Nevertheless the idea is cool

@BetaClimbers

2 ай бұрын

Yepp you would need to go from parallel to down quickly as with any belay. A grigri would be more forgiving of a mistake but your absolutely right.

So I have to find a glove and put it on first ;-) But seriously, you would need to know where the rope on the ground is, the ground would have to be flat enough to step onto the rope and you can see the belayer missing the clip. If you don't manage to block the rope between your shoe and the ground, you would end up with the brake hand lose on the rope, the grigri unweighted and not in blocking mode, you pulled in less than 4 ft and your hand is all the way up high. It takes extra time to pull in more rope in case the climber falls a second later. Not sure I would make that correct call in time. More likely I would see there is a problem and I step back or sit/kneel down to the ground while pulling in to take more than 4ft slack out of the system.

Hi Josh

Dude!!! Yes yes yes!!!

wow thats an awesome trick I've never thought of doing !it makes perfect sense and your explanation is top notch one thing I've always wondered is how to pull in more slack if my climber misses the clip

@jacobkantor3886

2 ай бұрын

imo the fastest is hand over hand

@largeformatlandscape

2 ай бұрын

@@jacobkantor3886the fastest is jumping off the cliff..

If only there was a way to do that without stepping on the rope.. I mean, in real world, you would have to step on the rope each time climber move a little and you feed rope etc. That is a lot of stepping on poor rope, but more than that, you constantly have to look away from climber to look down where to step on a rope :D. That is more dangerous in my opinion than giving full attention to climber and risking extra 4 feet fall (of course depends on situation). Nice idea but only to use when you know something risky is coming like long clip above ledge. Other than that, choose longer safe fall in my opinion :)

Looks good but you are missing the one crucial rule (at least around where i am): Never step on the rope! 😉

Took me a minute, but you’re right (not surprisingly)

I like the physics behind that one. A disadvantage of this method, in my opinion, is that there is no firm grip on the dead end of the rope during retrieval (the rope slowly slips through the hand). If a fall occurs at this moment, which is not unlikely, then depending on the belay device things could go badly.

@BetaClimbers

2 ай бұрын

That’s half right, the rope does slide through the hand, however it also does for tunneling methods as well. And oh boy have I seen ppl drop the rope doing that. lol with this the hand never leaves the rope and you can grip back down. It also encourages the use of a rope glove which I like. I think the biggest problem is actually having the right sized rope and belay device. If the rope is to stiff and fat I don’t think your going to have an easy time getting your slack back.

@Headbucket

2 ай бұрын

@@BetaClimbers Yes I agree. I think with a grigri the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. With a standard tuber, I would prefer to keep the breaking hand low and maybe jump back/down.

Did not understand

Couldnt watch whole thing my brain stopped listening sorry

@BetaClimbers

2 ай бұрын

Oh NO he’s got TIK TOK BRAIN! 😨 😂

@schneblymagee400

2 ай бұрын

Honestly its the lack of script and stutters. Never watched a tiktok so dont know what that means.

@BetaClimbers

2 ай бұрын

@@schneblymagee400 just teasing you 😂 a lot of content has moved to short for so attention span had gone down. 📉