I've been watching horse racing since 1970 and those great days of Nijinsky. In all that time I've never seen a horse progress from handicapper to stellar Group 1 winner quite like Mtoto. A truly amazing racehorse and a fantastic training feat.

No kidding, torontoderek. Mtoto was a brilliant "wet sail" merchant. He and Dancing Brave had the best turns of foot I've ever seen in mile and half horses. I had a friend who on King George day kept backing Mtoto as his price drifted in the softening going. I was skeptical, but he knew what the rest of us were about to discover: the true class of this late maturing maestro.

I have a special place in my heart for Mtoto, Lobby. To my mind he will always be underrated. His Arc defeat leaves me gutted each time I watch it. For turn of foot he was right up there with the best. True brilliance. Over 10, the best ever.

Superb horse mtoto was one of the greats in that era many a time l backed him mouse Roberts brilliant jockey as well 😊

my favourite horse, ever, mtoto. class act and what a price! i was at a wedding on this day and couldn't believe the sp. also how enjoyable to read posts from others who remember those days and the other horses so well. doyoun was a substandard guineas winner and kayhasi won a poor derby from glacial storm. but mtoto who won the eclipse again @ 6/4 from 33s poke shady heights was a true superstar. at the year's end,unbelievably, tony bin was rated the same as mtoto after his lucky win in arc

Dancing Brave had a quicker turn of foot than champion sprinter Green Desert and showed blistering acceleration over 8, 10 and 12f races whereas Mtoto struggled to pass a one paced 12f front runner in Reference Point over his supposed optimum trip of 10f. If he was that quick he'd have flown past RP and away from Tryptich but he couldn't. There are no form lines to suggest Mtoto could have beat DB over any trip or any sectional time to suggest he could outsprint him either.

Had the biggest bet of my life (so far) that day on Mtoto. An electrifying win. I was stood in the old ditch about four feet below turf level, bang in front of the stand when he appeared, romping away with it. Glorious memory...

Think someone forgot to tell mtoto that he didn't like the going 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Just to clarify, that's Mtoto unstoppable over 1m2f. I was an Unfuwain fan, but Mtoto takes that step that precious few do - from excellence to sublimity.

Mill Reef was a great horse and i`m not saying Mtoto was the greatest, I just believe Mtoto had style and courage and a touch of class that in his era stood out,Horses don`t have to be the very best to be admired,surely it`s about entertainment and what we as spectaitors remember in great races.

Mtoto won me so much. Brave as a lion horse. Even if it never won he gave you a run for your money

All these horses were stars, but not many could act on any ground to the degree of MTOTO and to me that made him a cut above,,the fact MTOTO raced at all was a miracle considering the problems with his hooves but this prince was born to be a king and even if he wasn`t as good as other great champions he certainly new how to entertain and deserves his crown for his courage and breath taking victories,,

oh one more thing Tony bin ( who was third here ) went on to win the arc, enough said Mtoto was class

Good grief, two horses whose owners were clearly prog fans (Soft Machine obv, but Moon Madness was an album by Camel).

no way, best ever over 10f Mtoto! Awesome turn of foot

Truth is, NWM, the Monster was just superb over both distances - as, of course, was the sensational Dancing Brave. Totally agree with you about the 1988 Arc.

I agree entirely, terbs. The going didn't suit, as evidenced by his drift in the betting in the run to the race, but he still walloped them. True class on any going.

Great race for the king George that year ☺

Changing your bet at the last minute: Absolute (Moon) Madness.

I really think mtoto is shergar. Resured ❤

And what entertainment Moon Madness provided us with during his career.

I was shocked for days after he defeated Reference Point in the Eclipse - but I still say that 10 furlongs was just to sharp for RP and he would almost certainly have gained revenge in the King George that year if Mtoto had been running. But I'll agree with you that not much would have beaten Mtoto over 10 furlongs. As for Unfuwain, he never really fulfilled his early promise, did he.

Aah the yesteryear, when it didn't matter pronouncing the names right, the spelling says Unfuwain but let's call it Ufwan !

Good quality field as well

Extraordinary price! Never been a big gambler myself, terbs...but that day a friend of mine was so certain of Mtoto's quality that for every quarter point, and then half point, he drifted in the betting he stepped up to the counter with another betting slip and another sheaf of notes. He clearly knew for certain what so many doubted. I think he had to purchase a larger wallet to collect his return from that rarest of beasts: a 15 minute deposit account with 400% interest guaranteed.

Mill Reef must rate as the best any ground horse.

Mtoto. Anyone thought that it could be shergar. I'm confident That is shergar.

Sad to read that he's died. My favourite, ever.....!

My face is straight.

4-1! Utterly unbelieveable for a horse who, with hindsight, was so far ahead of everything else in this field - and on ground that didn't suit. Read lower down for a most cheering bookie-beating tale. Until the Arc!

Intersting point of view, MWM. We need a time machine for conclusive evidence, but I do think you underestimate both RP and Tryptich. RP may have had one pace, but it was a fast one, as his racing record shows. Had Mtoto got up on the line in the Arc, his name would be held in yet higher esteem, but as happened to the great DB at Epsom, the best horse did not win on the day.

That's the thing about the Arc isn't it. Over the years its condemned many a betting slip pencilled in with a red hot favourite or a moral certainty on it to the bin.

But that was some animal, that Mtoto. He probably to this day is the horse I would say had the greatest turn of foot I have seen over middle distances and should have won the Arc with a better ride and a bit of luck! Pity he wasn't patronised at Stud by breeders with top class broodmares. Mind you, he did sire a Derby winner in Shaamit!!

I'd go along with the Brigadier - but Dubai Millenium?

You're right, it's not exactly bad but it strongly suggests that Mtoto's turn of foot wasn't as swift as some contributors on here would have you believe.

the horse that won mtoto is my horse's great grandad (Y).x

I was at a wedding the day of his St Leger and me and a couple of the other guests popped out to the bookies to put on a bet. Unfortunately I changed my bet to Celestial Storm at the last minute. Spoiled the rest of the reception for me.

The Brigadier I agree, but Dubai Millennium is the most overrated horse of the last twenty years. How many proven Group 1 performers did he beat during his career, not many I can assure you of that. Check the stats, Sendawar was probably the best but he wouldn't of got in the same parish as Mtoto let alone the Brigadier!

If I didn't know better, NWM, I'd think you didn't like Mtoto. Fair enough, though; we're all entitled to our opinion. For me Mtoto was never all about turn of foot, although I argue strongly that he possessed noteworthy acceleration. What raises him to brilliance is the tenacity he shows when under duress. It is the combination of velocity increase and persistence that raises him so high in my esteem. Right, I'm off now to try to remove these permanently affixed Mtoto-coloured spectacles.

Maybe over 12, but not over 10!

Mtoto's highest ratings came over 12f not 10f, his KG win being his most impressive performance, in my opinion. Although he won many 10f races his wins tended to be narrow. That suggests he was a determined and tenacious horse over 10f rather than great and also suggests he actually needed further.

I certainly don't underestimate either RP or Tryptich, they were both very good horses but neither was great. Mtoto would rate higher than both of them but below DB. Mtoto's best performances were over 12f not 10f i.e. his KG win and Arc 2nd, a race he should have won.

Quite the opposite, Mtoto was a star performer in arguably flat racings best decade for depth of quality. I just think his turn of foot was less rapid than is claimed, particularly over 10f where most of his wins were narrow and workman like rather than spectacular. He was way more impressive over 12f, in his KG win and in the Arc he would have won if Roberts hadn't given him a Jamie Spencer type ride.

My friend then lost it all on Arc day!

Mtoto reminds me of shergar? Maybe went to another stable. Change of name. Make up to disguise him. Um

DB was in a different league to these , the fact that you compare mtoto to DB means you know faq all about racing. Mtoto was a handicapper that progressed into group class and ran an incredible arc de triomphe, he did not win but it was an amazing run from a horse that started off in handicap company, also the going had to be good to firm to see the best of mtoto

@LOBBYTHEROBBER

10 жыл бұрын

Yet it was good to soft here when he won the King George. Maybe he wasn't as good as Dancing Brave but to call him a handicapper shows how little you know about racing. Mtoto was a star of the highest order.

@skababooshka

9 жыл бұрын

lobbytherobber yes but he started his career in handicap company check your facts before you slag me off.i am full of praise for Mtoto but he lost a bad arc ( tony bin was nothing ) where as DB won a class arc

@gorseyleas

6 жыл бұрын

DB was clearly the greater, but Mtoto was nevertheless a sensational horse. He was never really thought of as a 'handicapper' by his connections. He ran creditably at Group 2 level at 3 but he was very backward: a typical son of Busted who himself needed time to mature. I remember his trainer stating at the start of the 86 season that he had a potential star called Mtoto but that he probably wasn't yet ready for top company and wouldn't be at his best until the following season.

@nightowl7459

6 жыл бұрын

david j Kumar, Your ignorance is amazing, Mtoto was a late maturing horse, Because he participated in a handicap and he progressed from there doesn't not mean he is a handicapper, You obviously know very little about horse racing.

I backed mtoto I got 9/2 it was a great 👍 bet