Absolutely right Steve. More frames does not mean smoother framerate, and it's important to know the refresh rate of your display to get the maximum benefit. The ideal scenario is native framerate (90Hz -> 90fps, 120Hz -> 120fps). When that isn't possible then the next BEST solution is half framerate (90Hz -> 45 fps, 120Hz, 60fps). The problems arrive when the refresh rate of the display is being updated with new frames part way through a refresh cycle. So for example, running at 67 or 80 or 74 fps on a refresh rate at 90Hz means that there will always be missed, unmatched or dropped frames. This is what creates the stutter. By running at half framerate, you are updating the display with a new frame every 2 refresh cycles. This means that, although not as good as native framerates (updating every cycle), there is a consistent delivery of frames which match a divisible of the refresh rate. With motion smoothing/ASW/motion reprojection applied then this can be smoothed out further by using software to estimate how the missing frame might appear. Sorry for the long comment, but I think this is an important message. More frames (if they're not equally divisible by the refresh rate) doesn't necessarily mean a smoother experience. This is one of the things I've been harping on about for a long time (people are probably sick of it!) but I can't seem to get the message across! Lol.

@VRFlightSimGuy

9 ай бұрын

**Thankyou** so much for explaining this mate, it's quite hard to get your head around it. I'll pin this comment for others to see. Take care

@MrBBywaters

9 ай бұрын

“Sorry for the long comment”? Brother, you can go on like this all night, and I’ll be here for it! Thx for adding your thoughts!

@michaelr9352

9 ай бұрын

I have tried this already... the end result is that we are not there yet, we really need 90fps. Using a locked frame at 45fps with vertical synchronisation might be ok at high altitude and looking ahead but it does not cut the mustard for low and slow bush flying, it`s basically a slide show with objects on the ground jittering like jelly pudding. Currently I am locked at 30fps with my Aero, DLSS on balanced setting , it`s ok and I get a nice experience but going at 45fps with motion smoothing will not work unless I drop too many of the eye candy settings and the resolution as well. That is a shame as indeed the smoothness particularly panning around should be better together with less artefacts as well with that setting. Lets hope MSFS 2024 will bring us more frames with better engine optimisations for a good experience in VR.

@Coxy_Wrecked

9 ай бұрын

@@michaelr9352 Hmmm, have you tried deleting rolling cache? I had similar stuttering which i though was down to framerate but whilst trying to find a solution on the internet i read about deleting rolling cache after any update( MSFS2020 has regular updates as I'm sure you know) solves the huge stuttering i experienced even on my 4090 gpu.

@bigbangerz5856

9 ай бұрын

I think you're correct Gary but to also add (from my experience) that when you drop below the ideal framerate matching refresh at 90Hz it can introduce a lot of blur particularly on fast moving images. For example moving ur head quickly on the surface on an Elite planet or flying close to the ground in DCS & MSFS. I guess what I'm trying to say is there is a cost to visual fidelity in order to maintain smoothness its hard to explain to others as you say...

Great video, Steve! I've been using this with the Crystal for weeks, and I just love the experience❤

You are quite detailed and technical. I'm an old flight simmer from the first edition on up. Wow things have changed. I enjoyed your video and I will catch up. Just got an upgrade (gifted thanks bro) tat will run FS. Thrilled so far.

Love this video! I was just thinking I wanted to experiment with this setting too. Thanks Steve!!!

@VRFlightSimGuy

9 ай бұрын

Many thanks, I'm glad you liked the video. You can't beat another tweak to improve the immersion :)

You absolutely nailed it Steve mate. I have a very similar system to you and a Varjo Aero, and I’ve always been sceptical about dropping frame rates, but if you’re suggesting something then it’s going to be well researched, so I gave it a go and you’re bang right on this one. Having a meaty rig, I love all the eye candy, so I don’t mind a few stutters on the ground just so I can have all the realism at altitude where this sim shines, but locked at 45 frames and with raymarch shadows off, (which was the elusive final troublesome setting that I was struggling to isolate, so double thanks for that) it’s super smooth and the best that it’s ever been. I’ve said it before but it bears repeating, but you are providing a vital service with this kind of vid, so bravo 👏👏

@VRFlightSimGuy

9 ай бұрын

Thanks Dave, comments like that really keep me going sometimes! I'm so glad it's made a difference to you. Take care :)

Thanks Steve! Excellent suggestion! My experience is way better now in the Crystal!

@VRFlightSimGuy

9 ай бұрын

Nice one that's great to hear! :)

Cheers Steve, always appreciate your tricks and tips.

@VRFlightSimGuy

9 ай бұрын

My pleasure thankyou for your support

That worked so good for me. What a great deference. Thank you!!

@VRFlightSimGuy

9 ай бұрын

My pleasure :)

great tip, as always

Thanks very much Steve for the tip. I'm gonna try it with the Aero.

@VRFlightSimGuy

9 ай бұрын

Nice one :)

I've been saying this for years, glad you are pushing it to the masses. I shudder every time someone posts about their supposedly "smooth" 55fps in VR.. 😅

@VRFlightSimGuy

9 ай бұрын

I thought it's about time I made a video about this, better late than never lol Thanks for watching

@lurchilurch5507

9 ай бұрын

@@VRFlightSimGuy but you prefer MR, right? That's all you've ever talked about since I can remember, saying it's just not smooth enough without MR.

Just waiting to arrive the second StreamVR bast Station and configure my Varjo. Ths, great video as always.

@DaveBrown1

9 ай бұрын

You can get away with one station for FS

Thanks for another helpful video Steve, I will try your recommended settings especially when flying the typhoon at 1000ft lol

@VRFlightSimGuy

9 ай бұрын

My pleasure, for that type of flying it will definitely help 😅

Around 50 fps with the Pimax Crystal still blows my mind. Greetings from germany to all of you vr-lovers. Keep on with your good content, Steve.

@VRFlightSimGuy

9 ай бұрын

Cheers buddy

im happy with MR since day one!!! with my pico 3 i can also use MR absolutely smooth with 72 hz and 37 fps for locations like NYC, for no big areas im fine with 90hz / 45 fps, good landings guys :)

Good vid Steve 👍

@VRFlightSimGuy

9 ай бұрын

Thankyou, much appreciated :)

Always enjoy your videos, really well done! I really hope Pimax adds the ability to lock the Crystal at 1/3rd refresh rate (30 FPS / 33ms GPU frametime threshold). Also - unfortunately Smart Smoothing is not working with the latest version 1.16 of Pimax Play. I used 30 FPS locked mode in SteamVR with motion smoothing and turbo mode on with the Index and it was incredible, minimal motion smoothing artifacts, flying low level / cloud surfing or maneuvering dynamically was so fluid - I can't go back to non-motion smoothed flying, seeing the ghosting of the individual frames being rendered really looks rough with no motion smoothing. Currently being limited to locking at 45 FPS via Pimax XR - it's effectively demanding a 20-50% increase in performance (33ms to 22ms) required to maintain that 22ms / 45 FPS threshold to keep smart smoothing working fluidly - so more reduction in headset resolution or in game settings are required.

Thanks for the tips Steve , will try it out . My pimax crystal arrived the other day and after a few hicupps and tweaks it seems to be going good! , colors are amazing and a great step up from the G2 , although still not happy with being able to read the gauges yet . I did a short flight from Edinburgh to Inverness in the a2a Comanche with the Crystal and it was awesome! Recently upgraded my pc at last ,after dithering for so long 😂 Rtx suprim 4090 Ryzen 7800x3d 32gb 6000mhz memory Thanks to yourself and Mark for all the hints,tips and video's throughout my VR journey . 😊👍. Ps. Will post this comment to Mark as well.

@clayton4115

9 ай бұрын

shocking to know you cannot read the gauges clearly in the Pimax?

@sascenturion

9 ай бұрын

@@clayton4115 nah i think its me not got the settings right and probably need glasses lol.. plus.. i didn't say i couldn't ..just not as clear as I hoped , I mean the small writing ,the little signs inside the cockpit i can certainly read how much fuel and temps etc.

@clayton4115

9 ай бұрын

@@sascenturion That's what I am afraid of, I have the R G2 and don't need glasses to while inside the G2. I do wear glasses for reading, so I hope I will not need glasses when I get the Crystal.

@VRFlightSimGuy

9 ай бұрын

Excellent I'm so glad you are enjoying the headset mate. It might be worth using the Crystal at full native resolution with eye tracking enabled, since you should still be able to manage 45fps with your beastly system! Take care.

Interesting. I wanna try this in Asetto. Wonder if this helps a fast paced game too.

Setting fps limits in multiples of your monitors refresh will always give you the best results. The other thing people tend to ignore is setting your fps limit at a level your system can achieve most of the time. I know this can be a hard one to swallow sometimes in hardware limited programs such as flight sim, but if you are running either your cpu or gpu at close to 100% you will more than likely encounter stuttering. It is all but guaranteed that load spikes will push the hardware over 100% even if the fps counter or % load monitor doesn't show it, monitoring frame draw times will give a much more useful indication of when stuttering or micro stuttering occurs.

Here! 👀👀👀👀

Good old Varjo!

Hi Steve. Do you use TAA? I have oculus pro and use 40fps instead of 45fps, because 45 need 90hz and here are a lot of artefacts with 90 on meta pro. 40 fps also really good) i know oculus pro has so small resolution, but im override it to 3400*3400 and with TAA its so sharp) especially glass cockpit. I have some aliasing with taa, but i prefer it above dlss, because dlss isee has a lot of moving “ghosts” and i feel something with color. Dlss looks less vibrant also. But dlss almost no aliasing at all. If i use upscale to 4200

6800XT / 7600X / Reverb G2 owner here, very smooth performance. DX12, FSR Quality, medium to high settings. In VR, I get between 45 en 60 frames in most places without stutters. Love the a2a Comanche btw, but owners beware, check your fuses before every takeoff. The fuse (breaker) of the my generator had popped and before I knew it, the battery was drained flying over a stormy North Sea. Obviously, I didn't survive and had to overhaul the engine to get her flying again.

@user-to8eb2lf2p

8 ай бұрын

O think that you never had a experience with motion reprojection in openxrX. It is much better, there is no comparation

Hi, I'm seriously thinking of getting a better VR. What would you prefer? Pimax Crystal or Aero? I mainly play AC,ACC,F1 but I want to play DCS, MFS and other sims now what would you recommend? I've been looking at Beyond but that's probably the shyest of the bunch. PC is no problem 13900k and 4090 . Thanks for the help!

For me motion reprojection doesn’t so much create artefacts its more that it introduces blur when combined with movement at least that is what I see when its enabled.

@Coxy_Wrecked

9 ай бұрын

It adds a visual 'wobble' to propellers and wings in my experience.

@paulsaunders6536

5 ай бұрын

Agreed. Images appear a bit blurry, most noticeable in the text on display screens. You also get some ghosting. That being said when I had a 3080 MR was my default and got steady 45 FPS in IL2 and DCS and around 25 in MSFS. With a 4090 I no longer need to use MR. Of all the options available this gives me the sharpest image in the sims.

If you fly GA planes and aim for great outside scenery visuals try supersampling Crystal with resolution set in OpenXR Toolkit to 4700 x xxxx and DLSS Quality. You may be surprised how much sharper the scenery may be compared to 3500 x xxxx (this is way below Crystal default resolution so you are not using to it's full potential) and TAA 100.

What are your NVidia Control Panel settings? I use Pimax Crystal.

Quick question mate. Since steamvr has been updated to 2.0 every time I use my aero I have to get my controller out and remove the steam overlay. I play my racing games through steam when not playing msfs, so do you know how I can stop this overlay popping up every time? Cheers. Bboy.

Hey All! Does anyone have any suggestions for getting the most clear and smooth result out of oculus quest 2 currently? Ill take any help lol. Its ok right now but i feel maybe im not using a runtime or debug tool etc the best i could. Steve! Thanks for all the great content. Do you still think some of your older videos are the best or do you know if there is some updating that could be done?? Im genuinely curious what you think I know the g2 and aero are where its really at but i feel that even at half off its price its above what most of us can afford for a single use VR head set and i have a 3080 11th gen i7 chip system lol with honeycomb controls etc lol so im still a spender in this hobby and care...anyway i feel as if surely there are others out there like me that could use some input of help? Long time watcher and suppporter. Been simming now for about 5 years. Still Love it!. Also fly military in real life and still have a blast simming. Really enjoy the channel and community!

Sorry i dont understand...can you whrite what are the tips you are talking..merci

Hi team, I have Varjo Aero with MS window 10 64X, Intel i9-9900k cpu 3.60 hz, 3600 mhz , 8 core. Board ROG STRIX Z390-F GAMING. ASU TUF-RTX3090 and 32 GB RAM. With the suggested setting I can archive 22 fps only. CPU is overclocked at 38%. I lowered the settings in MSFS to from ULTRA to HIGH and still can get 45 fps. Only around 22 fps. Please, any idea? TKS

My man hitting some strong winds 😂 getting blown about there Abit buddy. Cheers for the tip I'm struggling Abit with the 3060 12gb version any tips help

@VRFlightSimGuy

9 ай бұрын

I'm glad you noticed that, it was quite a rough ride in the H2 lol I hope you find the right sweet spot for your GPU

You are right Steve. Mine is locked at 60fps and its really smooth.

@VRFlightSimGuy

9 ай бұрын

Nice!

Did you enable the "smart smoothing" in th crystal? If I run it, although I have constant 45fps (without the explicit locking), the image outside is blurred from the movement, thus denying the whole advantage of the crystal. On the other hand, with it on, I get a lot of flickering for some reason. Would FPS locking fix the blurring?

@f14billy

9 ай бұрын

If you are using the new pimax play 1.16 in my experience it doesn't enable smart smoothing. When I downgraded it to 1.15 it works as expected without any blurring as long as you can hit 45fps. The flickering happens when your frame rate goes below 45fps. Smart smoothing doesn't work well when the fps goes lower than half the refresh rate. I contacted pimax about my issue and sent them my logs.

Motion reprojection in openxrX, and 30 fps is much much much better. During a curve is fantastic. But the artefact is a real problem.

this is why 75hz is such a great option int he 8K x! I hope they bring it to the Crystal then I wouldn't have to lock at half FPS

@RJ-kr4bs

9 ай бұрын

72hz is in beta test for the Crystal and will be released soon - it's specifically intended for sim users as you say.

60fps is be an improvement over 45pfs IF you use the same trick with the 120Hz refresh mode available on the Crystal. I'm doing that with DCS and it works great.

@petroniobmesquita

9 ай бұрын

Hi there! Could you tell your settings?

@jgarrets

9 ай бұрын

@@petroniobmesquita MSFS or DCS?

@petroniobmesquita

9 ай бұрын

@@jgarrets dcs

@jgarrets

9 ай бұрын

Where to begin. 120Hz with eye tracking in Pimax client. PimaxXR runtime: Prefer framerate; lock to half framerate; allow eye tracker; enable quad views... (gotta install the quad-Views-foveated utility). DCS MSAAx2; Clouds Ultra; most everything else on "high," Any specific setting you want to know about?@@petroniobmesquita

@Murmur2k

9 ай бұрын

I’m doing the same, pretty smooth and a beauty to behold with DFR

If you have the 4090 plus the Ryzen 7800x3d you won't have to lower the tlod and olod from 180/160 and volumetric clouds are not a problem at all. The key is 45fps, I agree.

@elmalloc

8 ай бұрын

Most are not rocking that combo unfortunately. If I had only 1 rig I think I might but I have 4, each has only 5600x3d/5800x3D and 3080/3080TI.

Ok, I'm back with MSFS with an upgraded PC and a top notch 4090 (after two months of waiting for my popped 3090 to be refunded) I will try this with my Aero...

How did you get such realistic turbulence, like at 2:00 Is it the stock game or do you have addons for that ?

@VRFlightSimGuy

9 ай бұрын

That's down to A2A's flight modelling and physics

@adr1uno638

9 ай бұрын

@@VRFlightSimGuy thanks I will get the craft then :)

Thank you Steve!! But how can I cap the FPS at 45 on a Pico4. Any suggestions on that?

@VRFlightSimGuy

9 ай бұрын

Try using the Open XR toolkit, it should work uisng the Open XR for Steam VR runtime.

@gert944

9 ай бұрын

@@VRFlightSimGuy Thanks Steve, I'll give that a go!

Dear Steve, I thought I will write a few words on the technical side of why are you completely right about this, but instead if you are interested in this topic and you want to understand whats happening and why vsync is important, you should watch Digital Foundry's "Tech Focus - V-Sync: What Is It - And Should You Use It?" video. Also just as well as this 45fps lock works really good at 90fps, what in theory would be even better is to set the panel to 120fps and lock it to 60fps for even smoother experience (of course this is just theory because Pimax Crystal at the moment is not the sharpest tool in the drawer of 120fps VR headsets)

@Glider324

9 ай бұрын

But like steve says, you won't have the spare overhead to avoid stutters at 60/120fps.

Hi . Quick question. Would i get decent performance if i buy the Reverb g2 to go with my 4080? Thanks

@VRFlightSimGuy

9 ай бұрын

I'd say so, although I haven't personally tried a 4080.

I just want to add something on this topic. Frame rate limiters are often hit or miss and some times go a frame higher or lower than you set it at. This defeats the purpose of using it. RTSS is widely known to be the most reliable tool for this specific task. Recommend trying it if anyone is not getting a perfectly locked frame rate with other methods.

@Glider324

9 ай бұрын

yes rtss was a discovery for me too reading about it on the msfs forums for the g2

@Murmur2k

9 ай бұрын

@@Glider324 is there any advantage to using RTSS as opposed to PimaxXR for locking framerate?

@manic_miner

9 ай бұрын

RTSS is supposed to intercept the frame buffer earlier than other software or utilities but you need to experiment and try different options as locking in RTSS can sometimes decrease your peformance in VR if used incorrectly, this is based on my own experience.

I wonder if we set the Crystal to 120 FPS, then run MSFS at a locked 60 FPS with a 4080 or 4090, then the same 1:2 ratio applies if the same theory holds? Anybody else tried, or are thinking of trying that?

@VRFlightSimGuy

9 ай бұрын

Yes this would work. But 60fps is a harder target to reach, especially for a 4080.

Hey i have a 4090 - AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D with 32gb DDR5 what should i lock mine to? Pimax Crystal?

@VRFlightSimGuy

9 ай бұрын

Same as in this video👍

@TBMPilot736

9 ай бұрын

I have the same system, and I am still having to tweak and turn down the settings to let it run smoothly. I was hoping for better performance.

Hi everyone, i am running a Ryzen 7 5800X3D with a RTX3080. Can i Go with the Crystal or should i start with the Reverb as a VR Newbie for MSFS2020? Thanks so much in advance for any recommendation. Cheeres 😎

@acratone8300

9 ай бұрын

The Reverb G2 is no longer being made nor sold by HP. The only V.2 new Reverb G2 which I see for sale are not discounted and actually cost more than msrp. Beware the V.1 Reverb G2 which have issues (they start and stop working). The issue was the cable and control box in between the mains power and the USB plug. V2 control boxes have a tiny pilot on them. Be sure any G2 purchase is the later V.2 version). I use the G2 V.2 and love it.

@Botzmanhh

9 ай бұрын

Or i go with the Varjo Aero, because they lowered the price. Should work with my rig, right? @@acratone8300

how do you change seats in VR?

@manic_miner

9 ай бұрын

you have to buy another VR headset for each seat and then you can set them up in MSFS..

Hi Steve. Im using Virtual desktop with a Quest2, but i have a 4090. How do i lock my frame rate at 45 with this setup? Cheers

@joeymorris4863

9 ай бұрын

I believe the OpenXR tool kit has a box that you can check. The setting locks at 45FPS.

@GetOffMyyLawn

9 ай бұрын

First, verify what your headset is set to... if you use 72hz, you want to target 36fps, 90hz = 45hz etc. Next in Nvidia Control Panel -> Program settings (MSFS selected). Set vertical sync to Adaptive (half refresh rate). As mentioned in the video, this will apply to desktop and vr. Another tip for quest users... in Oculus Debug Tool, set FOV Tangent Multiplier to a lower horizontal/vertical multiplier. I use 100;80 since horizontal resolution is more noticeable, but adjust to your preference. This will reduce the rendering workload by reducing the render resolution.

@PhiLikeFlying

9 ай бұрын

@@GetOffMyyLawn Thank you. This is very helpful. 🙏🙏

@PhiLikeFlying

9 ай бұрын

@@joeymorris4863 Thanks. I'll try this 🙂

Which is your daily driver headset now?

@VRFlightSimGuy

9 ай бұрын

At the moment, the Crystal and Aero get a similar amount of flying time.

So are you recommending doing this with a 4090?

@Glider324

9 ай бұрын

Even a 7800x3d / 4090 pc struggles hitting 60 fps if you want reasonable visuals for 2023. 45fps is the current top end sweet spot.

My current method of amazing vr with the areo is no FPS limit, but very importantly, only one you are on the runway, turn the priority of msfs in processes to normal. It works sooo much better for me reproducibly every time, especially with photogrammetry. I have 13900k and 4090. I can't see me using any other method forseeably, unless and update ruins it. Try this for flicker free vr

@sep2345

9 ай бұрын

Thanks. Please explain what you mean by “turn the priority of MSFS in processes to normal”. I’d like to try this. Thanks!

@willbennett1359

9 ай бұрын

@@sep2345 hi buddy, once you are on the runway, minimize msfs and press ctrl alt delete to go into process on Windows. Then I think you go to services and find flight simulator.exe Then right click and change priority from high to normal.

i clearly see the stutters on the fence an the ground in the intro of this video. what smoothness you are talking about?) sadly, but the only way to play smooth - is a f$#ing reprojections ((

@VRFlightSimGuy

4 ай бұрын

VR footage is hard to capture and is not representative of what I see in the headset.

@XirurgDmitry

4 ай бұрын

@@VRFlightSimGuy i've tried this settings on my 13600k/4080 super/quest3 via virtual descktop and it was not smooth enough. may be i've missed something.

No bro 45fps is not smoother rhan 60fps are you crazy? Its math , 45 is less than 60 frames per second , thats a 15frame diffference every second

@VRFlightSimGuy

9 ай бұрын

It doesn't work that way in VR, please read Immersed Robot's comment in this section.

@Freeway7

9 ай бұрын

Wow you dont realy know anyting about fps lol you did not see that you are the only one saying this , so what ,you are the only one with knowledge lol , your math is good but you truly dont understand how it works

@gunlover5147

9 ай бұрын

@@Freeway7 its common sense bud, if you get more frames per second , the gameplay or image is smoother, what u talking about ? Try playing a game in 50fps then 100 fps, you telling me that 50fps is smoother than 100?

@Freeway7

9 ай бұрын

Naaa sory again you dont realy GET IT ! its ok why would we al be rong ond only you right ? Again FPS 60 is in Theory bettre YES but again what we are trying to say is ITS NOT JUST A MATTER OF FPS , but the whole rendering of the engine and limiting fps at 45 for a refresh of 90 make that resources will be free to counter any major HIT form cpu or gpu and no mather how you slice it we are right and you dont get it PERIOD :) am sory but we are right ! @@gunlover5147

@kaecatlady

9 ай бұрын

It's always fascinating when someone either didn't watch the video, or didn't actually pay attention to what it was saying--specifically, that the experience at 45 fps when using certain VR headsets and settings can be smoother than they would be at 60 fps because the user experiences fewer issues with stuttering and/or artifacting--yet they insist on telling everyone else that their experience is "wrong" because "math". PS: excellent explation by ImmersedRobot.

lol saying 45fps is smoother than 60... is like saying a P51 Mustang can fly faster than an F16. ask any one playing junk like call of duty today.. they'll tell ya.. they'd rather the game run at 60 than 40... and they'd rather it run at 45 than 30. the first 15 seconds of this video.. the fence posts lol were so juttery. that's not smoother than 60fps bro!

@VRFlightSimGuy

9 ай бұрын

Read the comments. I can't be bothered to explain why you are wrong. But thanks for watching regardless

@retrogamer8085

9 ай бұрын

@@VRFlightSimGuy lol u cant explain why im wrong.. because im NOT wrong bro. the comments are fulla dips who dont understand hardware either. again, 45fps even sustained without 1 frame drop is NOT superior to, say, 60 fps that dips to 50-55 here and there. that was my point and it's correct. not tryin to be a d-bag lol. but this also counts for control lag as well. 60fps and higher is gonna give ya a lot faster control and zero lag as opposed to playing at a lower frame rate.