Thank you very much 🎧👍 I've watched this video paused it and adjusted my crossover points because your explanation around muddiness makes perfect sense. Already can't wait for the next video. The more detail the better l say. People that have bought this unit or are considering buying it, are the sort of people that really enjoy the process of fine tuning their systems. This is complex, and having someone like yourself go through this with great detail is very in lightning for people like me. I would certainly consider myself someone of relatively high intelligence. So going through this in detail will only help audiophiles like us get the best out of this unit without trial and error, thus saving us frustration and time. So for that I say thank you 🙂

thank you, i just ordered one. been tinkering with things here and there your video just blew my mind. the glue i was missing to putting crossover things i've learned together!

@AudiophileJunkie

2 жыл бұрын

Cool... Let me know how it works out. The tinkering can be fun as long as you have patience and see the light at the end of the tunnel

Great information, thanks for making this series of videos. I just received my minidsp shd yesterday and I'm looking forward to getting everything setup. I love tweaking stuff so I think the shd will be perfect fit for me.

@AudiophileJunkie

2 жыл бұрын

Awesome... You will love it if you like tweaking. I literally STILL make minor changes to my curves. I just saved a new one today that I like best. Good luck and feel to ask questions.

@delvalle9256

Жыл бұрын

Hoes is your experience so far with the SHD? thanks

I love how you reference and even demo Rap music. I've been a Hip-Hop head since I was young. It was the sound of my youth and so many of those classic albums were anthem's for us where I grew up! Now I'm 40 years old and can afford a little nicer gear to listen to it on, but I've found that a lot of the audiophile community still dismisses the whole genre as almost undeserving of any "high end" gear. Doesn't make me too quick to participate in a lot of the discussions. I just love my music and want to enjoy it in the best possible reproduction I can.

@AudiophileJunkie

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah... The hobby sometimes has a problem with music snobbery. All it does it turn off many new people. Plus, it's extremely annoying hearing the same "audiophile" songs over and over again.

@erics.4113

2 жыл бұрын

There are loads of well-produced earlier hip hop and rap albums. The genre wouldn't be where it is today if there wasn't some audio production magic that has happened. But I also don't require studio mastery to be moved by music or impressed with a recording. I'll take someone telling a good story over a Roland 808 with some samples and scratching through an 8-track cassette and I'll still be smiling

I have worked with and owned several high end analog mastering grade PEQ and passive EQ hardware. Manley is excellent. However, SPL is more transparent with a LOT more transparency, phase coherence and obviously MUCH more headroom- pretty much than anything else out there. Having 120 V rail to rail like the SPL gear uniquely provides together with some of the best available inductors, capacitors, and related components provides a special set of capabilities.

Thank you for interesting video, looking forward to next episode. I would like you to discuss the artifacts of digital filters as well. Pros and cons. If I have understood it correctly, the CD brickwall filter at 22kHz introduce audible artifacts at lower octaves where we are very sensitive. This is one motivation for higher sampling rates, upsampling, and more gentle filter slopes. You use lot of filters (IIR I assume) that also introduces phase artifacts. Usually there is no free lunch. Please, discuss the negative aspects of introducing filters as well. Regards Dag

@sudd3660

2 жыл бұрын

i think that most minidsp products sample to 192khz to avoid that.

@AudiophileJunkie

2 жыл бұрын

If you're talking about the "phase shift" argument, I would watch Amir's video at Audio Science Review for a very thorough explanation why that's immaterial and based on people being hypocritical. There's infinitely more "phase shift" caused by their selection of speakers/room/etc. Thus, those that bring up that argument on something that's proven to be inaudible and immaterial to other things that technically cause "phase shift" is...in short...people being intellectually dishonest. However, I'll touch on it in the next video so everyone is clear about the various bogus arguments

i do not know of all the differences but i had only the space for the shd studio and it was almost half the price, same plugin(software). i was coming from eq apo software installed on my pc. shd series is quite the amazing tool :) having fun trying out subwoofer crossover, from 25hz to 2000hz.

@AudiophileJunkie

2 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure I would ever use 2000hz to crossover to a sub, but it's great to hear you are having fun trying. Even when you do things that don't improve things, I've found it very enlightening and helpful to understanding better the physics of sound. My mistakes have often led to the best improvements shortly thereafter.

@sudd3660

2 жыл бұрын

@@AudiophileJunkie it was a 10" aluminum subwoofer driver, now i know how cone breakup sounds like.

So are you feeding the SHD directly to your amp or to a discrete DAC first? Also during initial setup, is connection to the computer over USB or over LAN connection to router then PC. I've been researching what to do with the top of my audio chain and this looks like a good all-in-one option. Thanks for doing this video.

@AudiophileJunkie

2 жыл бұрын

I'm using it as a DAC and preamp straight to my amps. I use a separate server even though volumio is included. It's connected via USB and LAN to my router/internet.

Fantastic video and appreciate you sharing this. Do you know what the total latency is if bypassing Dirac Live and only using the PEQ/Xovers in the SHD?

@AudiophileJunkie

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks. I don't know if there is any significant latency. Since I run video on my server and the audio goes through the full miniDSP SHD processing, I've noticed no issues syncing with video that goes straight to the screen via HDMI separate from the USB signal.

@SoniclayersMusic

2 жыл бұрын

@@AudiophileJunkie Thanks for the reply!

Another Great video as always! Any chance you could post your preferred cross over settings for each of the 4 channels so I could use them as a starting guide ? Much appreciated!

@AudiophileJunkie

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the feedback! The crossover setting will really depend on your speakers, sub and room measurements. I would try to stay at 80hz or below and use a steep curve so that your sub doesn't overlap and play too high. As for the exact spot, I would take measurements and find where you have a big room dip. Almost every room has one under 100hz. I would set the crossover near that point so that you have a natural boost of 2 speakers overlapping the most at that point. It will save you the problem of using EQ to boost (which doesn't usually work) and increasing the sub volume too loud. I have a video where we installed a REL25 at my friend Doug's system. We did something similar to what I described above to great effect. Mine is right around 70hz, but that won't apply to everyone. My friend Doug was closer to 60hz. Others could be slightly higher or lower.

@seanlefebvre438

2 жыл бұрын

@@AudiophileJunkie Got it, thank you! While I’m not entirely a newb, I’m still learning. For reference I have a pair of Audio Vector R3 Arrete with dual SVS SB 3000 subs driven by 2 PS Audio M1200 mono blocks. Curious do you select both a high pass and low pass setting for each channel (L, R and for each sub) in the output settings in the SHD and those are settings I’m curious for you to share if possible (mainly the Crossover). I know they’re specific to your setup/room but would be a good reference point and very helpful for me. Thank you!

@seanlefebvre438

2 жыл бұрын

NM! I just watched your video again and found your preferences and explanations - thank you! They are so well done!

@AudiophileJunkie

2 жыл бұрын

Nice speakers you have. I was very impressed with the Audio vector recently at an audio show.

@seanlefebvre438

2 жыл бұрын

@@AudiophileJunkie thank you! Means a lot coming from you as you’ve heard the best of the best! I really enjoy them particularly after 500hrs - they’ve opened up really nicely. Just real quick back to the MiniDSP. I originally had the 22D and got everything set up pretty nicely. Found a few curves closer to the Harmon Curve and imported those into Dirac Live. But the 22D didn’t have sub integration so I got the SHD Studio cause I wanted to use my own R2R DAC but I’m having so many problems with the sub integration and cross over frequencies settings with the outputs. Dirac came up with such a bizarre correction twice over…not sure what I’m doing wrong…I’ve followed your instructions pretty closely. The pink noise I used to get on the 22d is replaced with more of a low bass rumble. I’m Routing the subs in Stereo - Left sub matches left speaker and right sub matching right speaker. Left (CH1) and Right speakers (CH2) high pass 30 - BW42 & No bypass on low pass Sub 1 (CH3) and Sub 2 (CH4) high pass 10 - BW42 & low pass 40 - BW42 Lastly, I also tried removing the subs in the routing (they are turned off), and just have the right (CH1) and left (CH2) channels like I did in the 22D but I don’t get sound when adjusting volume in Dirac Live. No pink noise at all. So odd… Sorry to bother you with this but curious if you’ve encountered these issues in your experience. Thanks!

You dont ear over certain frequencies, but you will ear the harmonics caused by them.

I am looking at how much overlap you have at the crossover and it seems like a lot - hard to tell really, but I would suspect that if you chose the same frequency for the Dirac 1 as for the Output3&4 that there would be a small dip and daylight on the graph of the crossover. I know you can later EQ out any hump, but I would think you can use the same slope for the high pass of one side and the low pass of the other to get nice additive behavior. Then the issue is as you covered - picking the right frequency and the slope you like. I think steep slopes in the digital domain work well because you don't introduce the same phase impact as you do with an analog crossover.

@AudiophileJunkie

2 жыл бұрын

I don't recall the specifics I've used in this video, but I typically have very little crossover since I use BW 48db slopes. I might have been displaying a basic example. That being said...If you have a dip in your room at a certain frequency, then you might want a little more overlap to naturally fill that void without adding gain with DSP. However, right now I have the opposite settings. I actually don't use the same frequency for the subs and main channels. I did some rearranging and now have about 5hz difference to avoid to much overlap at the crossover even with 48 db BW filters. These settings and videos are more for a general guide and not for duplicating exactly. Each room will need to do this in conjunction with their measurements at the listening position. Rarely does the graphic on screen match reality. One SIMULATES the frequency response, but the actual acoustic response is often different. Drivers have their own behavior as well as the room, so the algorithms can't predict with 100% certainty what the result will be... Plus you have to factor in your tastes with real music and two ears...not test tones and a single mic

@MichaelAmster

2 жыл бұрын

@@AudiophileJunkie I know my room has a monster hump around 50Hz. I have dual Rythmik subs in a swarm config to help even it out. I will play a lot with the crossover after I get it set up. I am using a miniDSP 2X4 HD for my AV setup already, so Dirac will be the new element for me. I will send graphs when I get it done. I also will try to see if my Allo Signature streamer offers any difference over Roon direct to the SHD.

@AudiophileJunkie

2 жыл бұрын

Cool... What I might suggest doing is using Dirac measurements (just the first one in the sweet spot) to see where it's noticing issues WITHOUT your subs and then take that same measurement WITH your sub. It's often helpful to know both scenarios. Then, try to pick a good crossover point based on those initial measurements. Once Dirac does a full set of measurements, hopefully you can manually set a correction curve that adds no gain and tries to get flat response. Once that is done, you can then use the EQ to add in a Harman curve to your preferences and also play with the crossover point further. That's where the fun comes in, but it does take patience knowing that sometimes you will make things worse and not better. It's inevitably going to include trial and error.

Hi, Is there any way to control how much Durac try to fill in dips. I read on forums that it is max 10 dB but if I want max 5 dB instead. To shift the target curve to the minima as you do will not help as I understand. That means just that you can use the O dB master volume setting, while if gain is added in a dip one has to use a lower max volume setting, subtracting the dip gain. The resulting analogue level will be the same in both cases while avoiding clipping. The reason is that I want preserve the analogue level as much as possible, and I believe trying to fill narrow deep dips due to room modes dips can do more harm than good. Using the standard (or modified) Dirac target curve, is there any way to get the max gain number other than trying to look at the curves? Regards Dag

@AudiophileJunkie

2 жыл бұрын

My next video will address that when I get into Dirac. In short though, you can't really use EQ to fill in big bass nulls. They are caused by cancelling waves, so boosting just increases both waves and you still get the cancellation. It's better to do nothing and live with the null until you can use bass traps and other things like listening chair placement or speaker placement to minimize the cancellation at that spot.

@MrDTF

2 жыл бұрын

@@AudiophileJunkie Totally agree. The question is how to make Dirac behave like this. Looking forward to your next videos. Dag

When configuring your subwoofers, what crossover level and volume level do you dial in on the back of the sub? Would it be next to just turn the crossover knob to LFE? KEF Kube 12b here. Love your videos!

@AudiophileJunkie

Жыл бұрын

That's a complex question that will most be determined by how things sound in your room and the type of floorstanding speakers you use. You typically don't want subs crossed over too high (i.e. less than 80hz if possible) and should choose a point where your room has a natural dip. The crossover point will provide the most overlap between the subs and floorstanders such that it may help that dip...plus the bass is coming from multiple locations to offset it as well. Volume will be to taste. Many people don't like totally flat bass, so you may want a tad more than flat and no room is going to give you totally flat response below 200hz anyway. Thus, you can use test tones and then music to dial in the volume to taste. I'll have some more videos in the future, but also check out the ones I did on subs in the past.

@jaybirdius

Жыл бұрын

@@AudiophileJunkie agreed, but my question wasn't the crossover frequency set in MiniDSP, but rather on the back of the subwoofer. If I'm using the SHD to control crossover, shouldn't I set the subwoofer to LFE so it's not managing crossover itself?

@AudiophileJunkie

Жыл бұрын

Ok...I see what you are talking about. You would just set the sub at it's highest setting or disable the internal crossover in the sub. The volume should still be mostly set on the sub and then use the miniDSP to fine tune it a bit. I would only DECREASE/REDUCE the sub levels in the miniDSP and not add any gain. Thus, set the volume on the sub at the best spot to your ears or slightly higher so you can play with it remotely with the miniDSP

@jaybirdius

Жыл бұрын

@@AudiophileJunkie thank you! Really appreciate you taking the time to respond buddy.

@AudiophileJunkie

Жыл бұрын

No problem...if you are interested in my whatsapp group, there are several miniDSP users and troubleshooting occassionally. I may even do a zoom with some of them soon to talk about the most common issues and resolutions.

I have a question for you if l may. I just switched off the right and left channels and just ran the sub as you suggested to hear what it's doing. As I mentioned before I've got a Wilson audio watchdog series 2 passive subwoofer with an audio research definition series monoblock amp driving it. I'm noticing an audible crack at time's doing this. When I look at the output level on the sub channel through mini DSP SHD I noticed the dbfs goes to 0 and there seems to be some sort of compression or something going on through Dirac Live. I've bypassed the compression section in the mini DSP so that isn't influencing anything. I can also confirm there is nothing wrong with the amplifier or subwoofer. If I use a different preamp without the mini DSP or the room correction I can get room lock with this subwoofer in my listening room with no mechanical audible noise what so ever. So this is puzzling not sure what's happening here.

@AudiophileJunkie

2 жыл бұрын

If I understand, you're getting a "crack" only when the sub is playing? A crack is a weird sound to get from a sub that only plays bass frequencies. Is it happening while you're playing music at demanding parts or does it crack when you are making changes to the DSP program? I would turn off Dirac and see if that makes it go away. As I mentioned in previous videos, Dirac will often try to boost you out of room null which never works. That's why I manually manipulate Dirac suggested curves to NEVER have it add anything. My guess based on the limited information thus far is that you could be getting some digital clipping based on the curve Dirac made...assuming the crack goes away when you turn off Dirac. A couple other things to try....Don't go any higher than -10db on the miniDSP in volume and add digital headroom in Roon's dsp - maybe 5 db or more. See if that impacts it. Right now I'm puzzled by what the "crack" sounds like, so it's hard to say what it could be.

@shanestephenson8423

2 жыл бұрын

@@AudiophileJunkie one thing I have tried is I've gone into the compressor section for output 3 which is where I have assigned the sub, as a potential quick fix. If I roll the threshold of the dbfs back by -6 it makes the noise go away from what i can tell. The other parameters here are ratio 4, attack time in ms40 release time in ms 100. So I've just rolled it off a fraction at the top so it looks like Dirac is causing it from what I can tell. If I use my Plinius Kaitaki preamp and take the mini DSP out completely, and play music. I can literally get room lock with this sub it is quite astonishing. No audible noise with exclusion or cracking of any sought. Just brain shaking to the point of blurry vision bass.🤪 If you want it like that which of course I don't 😂🎧 Further to your question it happens when music is playing. I know what you mean you can get an audible noise happening when you make changes on the fly. It's definitely not that it is happening when the room correction software is compressing or making changes as you said through it's algorithm I think.

@AudiophileJunkie

2 жыл бұрын

That's weird though if you have too much bass with Dirac off... Yet reducing the bass on the DSP cures the problem. I suspect there is one small but deep null that Dirac measured and you may not have noticed it when selecting your curve (or just went with the default selection). That big boost in one area could cause clipping at certain points on some songs. I would do the frequency sweep test by ear that I showed in the previous video. Do it with dirac on and off to see maybe if a particular frequency is causing the crack. If so, it may be exactly what I suspect. Just rerun your Dirac measurements and don't let it boost areas where you see nulls... Bring everything down. I think I went into more detail about Dirac in my room measurements video on the gr research nxtremes. I'll have more in the next video, but you may want to check that video out in the interim.

@shanestephenson8423

2 жыл бұрын

@@AudiophileJunkie no it's actually quite the opposite with Dirac off the bass seems thin and just not there to be quite honest. I hate listening now without it on. But I think you're on the right track, because when I turn it back on the bass is definitely boosted. Imaging is cleaned up dramatically, and the soundstage widens deepens and heightens. It's actually amazing saying it it seems unbelievable but when you listen to it it is all there in front of you. I really do appreciate this conversation. I'm not sure what time it is in the states there at the moment, but here on the eastern Seaboard of Australia it's coming up on 3:30 in the afternoon Saturday. So I'm impressed with your interaction with me and deeply grateful. 👍🙂

@shanestephenson8423

2 жыл бұрын

@@AudiophileJunkie further to that last comment you're spot on my room is not perfect far from it in fact. And the next thing I need to do is spend some decent money on room treatment. Just picture this in a room 4.2 m by 3.5 m I have Wilson Sasha's driven by a Michi S5 producing just over a kilowatt per channel into 4 ohms. A Wilson watchdog series 2 with an audio research monoblock amp producing 450 watts into 8 ohms. I can literally keep it ultra clean with no distortion and blur my brains into scrambled eggs if I wanted to. I accept the fact it is a little overkill but the plan is not to be in that room for ever. In this room it really gets to a point where when you get to around 85db peaks you have maxed the room out. I don't like listening to it much louder than that to be honest. Usually an average of around 77/ 78 db is about as loud as i get.

It looks like I can run 4 sub woofers with the SHD, my Marantz SR8015 has 2 sub outs. I was worried channels 1 and 2 were high pass only.

@AudiophileJunkie

Жыл бұрын

You have 4 channels total and you can manipulate their crossover and eq any way you want. You will need two channels for your mains though

@christopherterheyden9583

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! I was going to use Audyssey MultEQ XT32 in the AVR to EQ the 7 bedded channels and 6 Atmos speakers. 7.2.6

Do you have any vids on room treatments? I am now bought in on the benefits of the Mini DSP. But i have a tuff listening room. I have a room above the garage as my man cave. The sealing is sloping equally on both sides to a peak . the slope starts at about 4 feet. Room is 22 feet long 16 feet wide. I have no idea if this room will work if i can make it work. Wonder how reflections in this room will react.

@AudiophileJunkie

2 жыл бұрын

Check out the videos on subwoofer setup. I have one video where I go through all my room treatments. It's essential to cure big problems with room treatments first and then leave the small stuff to EQ/DSP.

Hi… as a streamer does the SHD support Tidal and Spotify Connect? Thanks

@AudiophileJunkie

Жыл бұрын

It uses volumio so double check their site.

@delvalle9256

Жыл бұрын

@@AudiophileJunkie thanks. So if I want to use room correction, EQ my mains and integrate dual subs , the SHD is my only option in the minidsp line up?

@AudiophileJunkie

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I think it's the best option for dual subs since you get the XLR and 4 outputs.

@delvalle9256

Жыл бұрын

@@AudiophileJunkie Your inputs’s appreciated . Also it would help if you can group your videos about minidsp into a playlist since you made a bunch about it. What makes your experience about Dirac minidsp is the depth of your experience with various components from DACS to pricey preamps , to DIY speakers and room treatments . You seemed to still prefer your system with Dirac room correction and bass management. 👍

@LarryBLucas

Жыл бұрын

@@delvalle9256 I believe that DDRC-88A Dirac + Bass Management module is another.

You start with too much detail. But useful. Barely.