Hello ~ It's me ~ PCBWayyyyyy ! Super excited and honored to be part of 8-Bit project :)

@jumbledfox2098

2 ай бұрын

Hello PCBWay! :3

@xp8969

Ай бұрын

Wait, PCBway is a real thing?? I thought it was just a joke made up sponsor for Retro Recipes

@PCBWay

Ай бұрын

@@xp8969 Of course! REAL!

I love that in the course of making this video, David and his collaborators just casually made an entirely new PET compatible modern spec keyboard replacement that, unless i'm overstating it, will be a bumper help to PET collectors and restorers and will keep hardware like the PET and updated clones like the MiniPET in good keyboards for the foreseeable future... and somehow that wasn't the focus of the episode, hah, I love that

@oliverhale85

3 жыл бұрын

I know right? What david describes describes as just 'spur of the moment' or 'proof of concept' are amazing!

@0raffie0

3 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't replace the original keyboard with a modern one to "fix" it. Original keyboards are repairable.

@lwilton

3 жыл бұрын

@@0raffie0 Not always repairable. While I agree with you that they should be repaired if they can be, if they can't, it is good to be able to have a reasonable replacement.

@pedropastrana3648

3 жыл бұрын

C'mon we're talking about the same dude who nonchalantly said he was related to dimebag darrell from pantera like it was nothing.

@HalianTheProtogen

3 жыл бұрын

Oh hey, small world.

"Just doesn't work right, it gets this far and locks up." That's pretty authentic IMHO. :P

@javabeanz8549

3 жыл бұрын

That reminds me of the days of typing in code from magazines... and some of the fonts were not the greatest for telling what was 0, O or Q, or 1, l and L.

@DonnaChamberson

3 жыл бұрын

Java Beanz I love to guzzle that 💦

@kennethhicks2113

3 жыл бұрын

@@javabeanz8549 Remember it clearly! I think worm of beamer was the first one I typed in from Compute!

@easlkrts

3 жыл бұрын

8-

@javabeanz8549

3 жыл бұрын

@Todd I don't remember if I did type in any out of COMPUTE! or not, maybe it was. I re-coded the logic for the Reversi game, as it wasn't challenging enough for me. I did find that COMPUTE! had an ST Reversi game, but the one I was using had Atari 400/800, TI-99/4A, C64, VIC20, and I think Timex/Sinclair code, all in the one article.

Our school had fund drive to buy a PET to bring us into "The Computer Age".

@aelecx9083

3 жыл бұрын

Lol your school sucks. This stupid “computer” can’t even play fortnites! Awful it’s too expensive!!!!!!!!😡

@S1dra.

3 жыл бұрын

@@aelecx9083 your obviously a kid just get out

@thenistthedev

3 жыл бұрын

@@aelecx9083 you knos this computer freaking released in 1977 and this pet kit it's just for diy for fun and in 1977 commodore pet was cutting edge and expansive so it's really awesome for his school to buy it

@Fungiarts

3 жыл бұрын

Wow that's great! My school never did this...

@twistedyogert

3 жыл бұрын

Just one?

C'mon, the guy who made PET Tetris didn't call it PETris?

@VictorCampos87

3 жыл бұрын

No 'cause (probably) someone did it first.

@Hobbles_

3 жыл бұрын

I thought the EXACT same thing. It's honestly a little saddening

@nordeide

3 жыл бұрын

A missed opportunity.

@srtech2205

3 жыл бұрын

Damn it!!!! U stole my comment!!!!!! Pet Tetris? PETris?

@TheGameFreak000

3 жыл бұрын

DAMMIT, you beat me to it!

PCB way!!! Because we all know that PCB stands for "Pet Compatible Boards". Right Chip-dippers?

@sypialnia_studio

3 жыл бұрын

I've read it with his voice in my head. And they say advertising doesn't work...

@UnholyTriforceDelenn

3 жыл бұрын

Gotta love Perifractic. He's awesome! :)

@AlTheJuggernaut

3 жыл бұрын

@@UnholyTriforceDelenn More like insufferably annoying

@UnholyTriforceDelenn

3 жыл бұрын

@@AlTheJuggernaut You're entitled to your opinion, but I respectfully disagree.

@Tahngarthor

3 жыл бұрын

No way? Yes way? PCB Way!

Never in my life did I think that retro computer kits would be a thing, over 40 years after they were originally released, but I'm glad. I can show my daughter the 8-bit computers I grew up with as she looks at lines of code and at simple looking games (slightly bemused) and yet having played like Space Invaders, she returns to them later on, as she finally understands gaming concepts like playability meaning more than something looking good or sounding good. So far it's all been on emulations so something running on a PC or tablet means it's still attached to today's technology but a board and chips shows how old computers were. The beginnings of affordable home computing is a subject today's tech nerds need to delve into to understand it and it's a fusion of generations who enjoyed it long ago and get to enjoy it again. 4:49 - I noticed the board label 'tynemouth software mini pet V1.44' and then googled out of curiosity and found that the company is just under 5 miles away from where I live.

@mattcintosh2

3 жыл бұрын

I got my first computer in 1995, a variation on the PowerMac 6100. I still wanted a Compact Mac to hang onto and play around with some older stuff from the late 80s/early 90's that wouldn't run on that machine. Never really got into Apple II though. Played around with it a bit, but felt a bit too basic for me and never really had the desire to go back to it.

@christo930

3 жыл бұрын

It sounds like you're reaching. Hardly anyone grew up with a PET. They just were not ever meant to be in the home for kids. Literally nobody was asking for this computer to be made. Being a PET, it is essentially DOA. They are no good for games and nobody would ever use one today for any kind productivity or even as a terminal to an internet based BBS. It is an expensive piece of kit where the best experience you will have with it is soldering it and then troubleshooting where your mistakes were.

@reggiep75

3 жыл бұрын

@@christo930 - Sounds like you're triggered and furthermore with every sentence you wrote.

@effexon

3 жыл бұрын

I find these have still charm, no x86 pc has, that is both software and electronics is easy enough to "fix yourself", ie. troubleshoot problems, which is infinite power for parent like you. I find , when we had 486 pc at home, missing out something of this "charm", as C+assembly in DOS isnt same as programming these machines. It doesnt give same learning experience, confidence and joy. I never had amiga so I cannot compare those, I know some people are die hard amiga fans.

@christo930

3 жыл бұрын

@@effexon I had a VIC 20 first and then a 64. Never a pet.

7:37: "It's things like this that make me very concerned about selling the Commander X16 as a DYI kit." Yes, as a Do-Yourself-In kit. :-P

@et_yt_official

3 жыл бұрын

😂😂

@averyalexander2528

3 жыл бұрын

I read it as Do-Your-Itself, but Do-Yourself-In makes more sense.

@aelecx9083

3 жыл бұрын

Do you even have the road raider skin in fortnite? Wow very much poop head

@ksaspectre

3 жыл бұрын

Kekw

@user-yw8sr3uj1w

3 жыл бұрын

@@aelecx9083 mate you've got problems

Here is a tip, measure the voltage before putting the chips in, otherwise if something is wrong with the regulator all your chips will fry.

@amirpourghoureiyan1637

3 жыл бұрын

He was probably in a rush for the video, would make sense for him to invest in a workspace so he can work more consistently on kits without worrying about missing connections or solder bridges.

@basvisscher934

3 жыл бұрын

@@amirpourghoureiyan1637 Yea I can see the logic in that. But since the chips already came apart from the sockets it wouldn't be all that much work to just connect the meter. Blowing all chips will take way more time. However, I am sure that the 8-Bit-Guy knows his stuff, it might not be that obvious to all people watching this video. It would be a devastating experience for someone who saved up some money to buy this product and see all the components go up in flames.

@smartroadbiker

3 жыл бұрын

@@basvisscher934 Yeah, I brought a Spectrum ZX81 kit and socketed all the chips so I could power the board before inserting them to check that the power was going to the right pins

@amirpourghoureiyan1637

3 жыл бұрын

@@basvisscher934 tbh I'm sure people who want to make their own PET would have some electrical knowledge considering it's known more for it's utility and historical value than for games like the later Commodore machines. In the case of casual users though, a lot of caution and double-checking is a good measure when tackling a kit with similar level of risk.

@darkwinter6028

3 жыл бұрын

Was about to post a comment saying just that.

Wow, what a flashback to times of old. I was a software engineer working on the military UNIVAC computer, the AN/UYK-7 at the Naval Underwater Systems Center in Newport, Rhode Island, and writing "The Inventor's Sketchpad" column for Interface Age Magazine when I bought my first personal computer, the original Commodore PET. I ordered the one with just 4K of memory ($600) but several weeks later got notified that they weren't making that version anymore because everyone was asking for the extra 4K upgrade which cost another $200!! I accepted that, grudgingly. It was a fun little machine.

Fun fact(s): the Commodore PET was the first home microcomputer late Nintendo president Satoru Iwata cut his teeth on, while he was an intern at Commodore of Japan. NEC got into the home micro business & ostensibly ran Commodore out of the country, after which Iwata went on to found a homebrew computer club for fellow hobbyists that later incorporated as HAL Laboratory (of Kirby, Mother, & Smash Bros. fame).

@andresdigi25

3 жыл бұрын

I read that in the amazing book about commodore's story

@SomeOrangeCat

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah Japan despises anything not of Japan.

@eekturk4258

3 жыл бұрын

Dont forget that Hp programmable calculator thing

@austinreed7343

3 жыл бұрын

Powerful Aura That explains why there was no Amiga Madou Monogatari. And why the SF ports to Amiga were mostly puke.

@rancosteel

3 жыл бұрын

@@SomeOrangeCat Except USA Made McIntosh amps and JBL loudspeakers.

Regarding the spacebar - you could have dissasemble two cherry switches, remove the spring and contact leaf and just use them as stabilizers - therefore making middle switch only one that actually works. That would make it not very stiff and should well stabilise it :)

8:32 This is probably why they used the Atmel. They're great little chips to use to replace custom IC's in a project like this. Cheap as chips, plentiful, and can be programmed to duplicate the functionality of rare, old or custom chips, while extending the functionality of the original system. 22:32 I think this kind of custom hackery is EXACTLY what these kinds of kit projects are intended to stimulate.

@stefanweilhartner4415

3 жыл бұрын

yes. and because they also come from Microchip now, it is also a good option to look at the dsPIC33EV. it is fully 5V compatible and runs with 70MHz and 16 bit. but i have to say that emulating a video chip is a crazy achievement. i don't think that it is possible with the c64 VIC-II. but never say never. maybe with some crazy dma trickery?

@TheTurnipKing

3 жыл бұрын

@@stefanweilhartner4415 In this case it's apparently subbing the 6545 CRT Controller chip, possibly the whole raster output system. Actually, I wonder if it might be related to the dual ported RAM? If both the CPU and 6545 are capable of accessing the RAM at the same time in this reimplementation it might be capable of running faster than 1mhz: Would an original 6545 be able to keep up?

@stefanweilhartner4415

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheTurnipKing is this new circuit not using a dual-port video ram?

@TheTurnipKing

3 жыл бұрын

@@stefanweilhartner4415 yep. The PET usually allows alternate cycle access between the video generator and the CPU. If I get what the dual port ram is doing correctly, it seems like both the CPU and video generation could run synchronously, so long as both the CRTC and CPU can keep up.

@davidwillmore

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheTurnipKing The dual port ram is needed because the atmel chip does not have an external memory bus like the 6502, so it can't share a single port ram. It needs to 'bit-bang' one on its dedicated port.

12:37 -- What is "PORN1" on this PET directory?

@darkmann12

3 жыл бұрын

LOL

@arrellmagister1849

3 жыл бұрын

An 8bit man needs his 8bit porn

@TheLordOfNothing

3 жыл бұрын

I really have no clue. David, I have my eyes on you.

@The8BitGuy

3 жыл бұрын

haha.. It was an C64 porn program somebody sent me and wanted me to see. I forgot it was on there. Good catch.

@raspberry1440kb

3 жыл бұрын

@@The8BitGuy Can I have a copy? I am an avid collector of this sort of stuff.

On the power switch: Remove the power adapter polarity jumper pins and put in a DPST switch in its place. Just orient it in the correct direction.

@21Trainman

3 жыл бұрын

I don’t see why they wouldn’t just use a diode rectifier. Surely it can’t cost that much to add 4 diodes to the layout, right?

@absurdengineering

3 жыл бұрын

@@21Trainman Not only that, but it would take plenty of heat off that 5V regulator. It should be a full-bridge rectifier - it’d present the 5V regulator with about 7V worst case, so any reasonably LDO would do the job with 2V drop-off available for it.

@21Trainman

3 жыл бұрын

@@absurdengineering Good point - I can’t imagine it’d draw enough power to cause problems for the diodes or their surrounding area, so it could only improve things.

@AmoyamoyamoyaYouTube

2 жыл бұрын

@@21Trainman ikr? Full-wave rectifiers in an 8-pin DIP are dirt cheap.

@neyoid

2 жыл бұрын

@@AmoyamoyamoyaKZread You could even easily build one out of 4 discrete diodes, and to really make sure it's flat, connect a small capacitor at the end.

re concern about selling the Commander X-16 as a kit: You should turn it into a proper learning tool, especially now that many in the audience will not have experience with this anymore. Give step by step instructions with details and rationale like you mentioned in the video of doing the sockets first; but also include *checklists* of Q/A checking along the way. Design it so it can be tested electrically, as much as possible. Tell them to check the power before putting the chips in, etc. Finally, make it a WIKI site so that people can add their own notes and experiences and post solutions to problems that are found in the wild.

@grn1

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed, I grew up in the 90's and didn't really know about these old systems until adulthood but I still find them quite fascinating and think it may be a good idea to learn coding on them. I don't have a lot kit experience but I have assembled a few and I've picked up a few things from watching KZreadrs. BigClive has a device that holds PCB's in place while he solders which he apparently picked up many years ago, if I knew where to find one (and it didn't cost too much) I'd get it.

@Curt_Sampson

3 жыл бұрын

Indeed. Unwanted shorts between adjacent pins and to ground (particularly of the power rails) are something that can and should be checked during the soldering process. A well chosen set of continuity checks will catch a lot of the common problems and not take very long at all; if you're worried about inexperienced kit builders you can just supply explicit instructions for those.

@amirpourghoureiyan1637

3 жыл бұрын

It would be nice if a modern coding language were ported to the system, I'm not sure if the 6510 CPUs were capable enough to get the C language working on it but something familiar to Pi users like Python would be a nice thing for students and hobbyists.

@Curt_Sampson

3 жыл бұрын

@@amirpourghoureiyan1637 The 6502 is poorly suited to C, but that of course hasn't stopped people from building a C compiler for it anyway. CC65 (cc65.github.io/) has been available for decades, and is of very high quality.(Disclosure: I've contributed a very tiny amount of code to the VIC-20 libraries for it.)

@amirpourghoureiyan1637

3 жыл бұрын

@@Curt_Sampson Awesome, they should include that with a beginners bundle, would be great to see if the X16 would fare any better than the early Commodore line-up

Came for the tech, stayed for the satisfying Mechanical Keyboard noises.

@ChrisLeeW00

3 жыл бұрын

@Alexandros K a Maniacal Keyboard? Like the ZX Spectrum rubber keys?

@unlokia

3 жыл бұрын

Looking for maniacal noises? Look no further, KZread comments section is FULL of them, take your pick.

@1sonyzz

3 жыл бұрын

razer blackwidow chroma, original first one, since 2016 spring - for that annoying mechanical keyboard clicky sound

I think this is a great idea and a lot of fun, but $300+ is a lot to ask.

@TheTurnipKing

3 жыл бұрын

For a project kit, it's about right, tbh. Especially one with a keyboard PCB.

@aprofondir

3 жыл бұрын

How much does an actual PET in working condition cost?

@thekornwulf

3 жыл бұрын

$600-$800, from what I've seen

@Fry09294

3 жыл бұрын

@aprofondir actual PETs are 40 year old antiques and replacement components are extremely difficult to source for the most part. The MiniPET on the other hand is just off the shelf freely available components.

@jamiehardt3061

3 жыл бұрын

18:57 Save the USPS

To fix your keycap issue, you may want to look into DSA, XDA, MDA, NP, or OSA style keycaps, as they have completely uniform keys. The set you have is an OEM style set and they keys are going to be sculpted for ergonomics. Cherry and SA style sets will have the same sculpted design as the OEM set that you have. With the DSA, XDA, etc keycaps, you can have any key you like at any location without keys being taller or shorter than the others around it

@liamschertler9806

3 жыл бұрын

SA row 3 would also be an option and they look very retro.

I remember taking apart cassettes and shortening the leader so that we did not have to manually adjust them.

Using a Stabilizer for the Space Key would prevent awkwardness with the 3 separate Switches while preventing wobble.

@parastie

3 жыл бұрын

The comment I was searching for.

@JonathosDX

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, this. Using stabilizers is the right solution here.

@nictamer

3 жыл бұрын

Or you could just remove the springs and contacts from 2 of the switches, really easy to do.

@jussapitka6041

3 жыл бұрын

@@nictamer it's still not as good.

@nictamer

3 жыл бұрын

@@jussapitka6041 not as good, but definitely better.

What is totally awesome: how you said on one hand there were probably more pets out there than functional keyboards...and it sounds like that problem just got solved :D

I was watching this video with my 9 month old daughter. She has heard Dave's voice since she was born so she always stops what she's doing and pays attention.

@NoName-fe5ne

3 жыл бұрын

You raised your child well

@RamLaska

2 жыл бұрын

That is so darling 😍

@gafakyusef6201

2 жыл бұрын

Uncle Dave!

@PossumMedic

2 жыл бұрын

🥰🥰🥰

@xanderplayz3446

2 жыл бұрын

Its david

I haven't read all the comments (there's a 1000+), so just a tip on the placement of the power regulators, and that instead of directly soldering the main tab onto the pcb, it might be more convenient to use heatsink grease & then use a screw & nut to hold it down. This is the usual industry "standard". It is more convenient than soldering especially when you have to replace the reg. That is why the regulator tab has a hole, to use a screw. You can also add a separate tiny heatsink to the tab, either make it yourself from sheet metal with a simple shape, or find a proper heatsink for TO-220 packages. I don't know how hot those get on a PET, I haven't used a PET since the mid 1980's. Personally, as for the MiniPET, it would be nice if it was designed to take advantage of the higher speeds of the new 6502 it is using, but apparently it doesn't, I'm unsure, even if it takes carefulness for any compatibilities.

You could install a switch to the jumpers near the power socket

@SteveJones172pilot

3 жыл бұрын

Good call! It would be easy to use those jumpers, which were put in place to allow the polarity change on the barrel jack, to be used to install a power switch!

A PET with Cherry MX switches. Now I've seen everything. Great video!

@haraldschiner6837

3 жыл бұрын

We haven't seen the content of porn1.prg. So life isn't complete yet ;-)

@aitchpea6011

3 жыл бұрын

@@haraldschiner6837 I mean...anyone between 40 and 50 has seen 8-bit porn. And when you've seen one 8-bit porn, you've seen 'em all. Any other age-groups here?

Amazing! Nice to see a company Tynemouth Software from my hometown 'Tynemouth' UK making nostalgic kits for Commodore enthusiasts.

2:11 Detective 8-Bit Guy on the case.

When you were soldering the keyboard at 17:00 I caught myself holding my breath so I wouldnt breathe the fumes.

@larsmuldjord9907

3 жыл бұрын

A few years ago I was watching a video with metal welding. Someone walked by and asked "Isn't it a bad idea to look directly at that? Doesn't the light burn your eyes? You shouldn't be looking directly at it."... *facepalm*

@Fry09294

3 жыл бұрын

I actually sneezed.

@battleangel5595

3 жыл бұрын

Fans and an open window are your best buddies while soldering. Repaired many an Apple IIe in high school with my ol' trusty soldering iron. Heck even had it with me in classes. Can't tell you how many times I was called out of class to fix a video connector on a IIe. Or scrape a peanut butter sandwich out of a cartridge loading CD-ROM drive... Or play electrician and fix that male to male extension cable a friend and I found the fun way with metal scaffolding while working on lighting for a school play... Gads I miss Radio Shack... I need a new soldering iron and solder to fix those same speakers from 1984. Best damn speakers my father ever bought. 36 years and these black beauties are still working-ish. Need to re-solder the connections in the signal cable to the plug AGAIN. And the signal cable keeps getting shorter and shorter...

@SpearM3064

3 жыл бұрын

@@battleangel5595 Radio Shack is making a comeback. They already have re-opened a few hundred Radio Shack "express" stores, and about 400 independent franchisees survived the "death" of Radio Shack. Of course, none of the new stores are anywhere near where I live (we used to have three.) Instead of having stand-alone stores, though, a lot of them are in space rented from other retailers like Hobby Shack USA.

I learnt to code in Basic on a Commodore Pet when at I attended Salford University in the early 1980's. This video brought back some great memories. Thanks.

@EvilSandwich

3 жыл бұрын

I really think basic should make a comeback someday. Maybe in computer kits for kids or something.

@DavidWood2

3 жыл бұрын

@@EvilSandwich BASIC had its place, but these days the most commonly found language in learn to code courses is probably Python - as used, for example, on Raspberry Pi. Those working on embedded systems will typically use C, perhaps using the Arduino or mbed environments initially. The first rudiments of programming are sometimes taught using visual coding environments like Microsoft MakeCode (e.g. on BBC micro:bit hardware). BASIC made sense 'back in the day', but suffers from lack of standardisation in areas such as flow control and lexical scoping. Graphics primitives are dialect specific, as are any library or object orientated features. These limitations together with the wealth of pedagogical material already out there for alternatives such as Python means BASIC is unlikely to make a comeback. The last company to push BASIC heavily was probably Microsoft with Visual Basic, but traditional Visual Basic was declared a legacy product in 2008 and development stopped with Visual Basic 6.0. Visual Basic .NET is still actively developed, but is a fully object-orientated language that doesn't have the deterministic execution of traditional Visual Basic. C# is perhaps more popular than Visual Basic .NET for .NET development, though the popularity of these two languages seems to wax and wane. Realistically, traditional BASIC is a legacy language these days, just as 8 bit microprocessors are legacy products these days. Low end 32 bit microcontrollers are so cheap now that there is little reason not to select a 32 bit chip unless using DIP packages, 5V logic level compatibility, reuse of existing code assets and/or shaving every penny off the BOM cost steers you towards an 8 bit chip. I have fond memories of my journey with 8 bit equipment but I haven't powered on my ZX Spectrum or BBC Master in years (and would expect them to need some recapping and other hardware maintenance to use them again). I certainly would not spend the money on something like the Mini PET, wonderful as it undoubtedly is for those who want a 'new' PET. If I wanted a 'new' 8 bit, 16 bit or early 32 bit computer to use for legacy system software, I'd probably go for an FPGA based solution if software emulation was inadequate. If you want to buy something to code on, you can buy a Raspberry Pi or similar device for something like a quarter of the cost of the Mini PET kit, power it with a redundant phone charger (so long as it has sufficient output), hook it up to your television using HDMI, connect an inexpensive wireless keyboard and perhaps also a mouse and you have all you need. The Mini PET really isn't a learn to code tool - there is little point in most people learning about the limitations and idiosyncracies of systems originally designed over 40 years ago.

@danboid

3 жыл бұрын

I work for the computing school at Salford Uni - best job ever!

@another3997

2 жыл бұрын

@@DavidWood2 Not everyone wants to learn programming to make a career out of it. Some people just want to explore and play around for fun. That being the case, a simple to understand language that can teach the rudiments of programming is just as valid as learning some variation of C or Java etc. Modern computers are daunting, huge layers of abstraction, requiring various bloated 'libraries' to access their complicated user interfaces etc. It's easy to be distracted or put off by that, and many modern languages just aren't ideal for learning the very basics. Who cares if the language isn't a modern 'standard'? C, C++, C#, Java, Python, Perl and Lua are all different to each other anyway. However, the basic mental processes are transferrable, so once learned, it relatively easy to move on to another language. Would you teach kids to read by giving them Tolkien, Asimov or a car maintenance manual as their first book?

Good Guys PCBWay - not sponsoring the video but still providing you with free, awesome and quick turn-around PCB's for the video. That's the best kind of free advertising they deserve to help bring projects like this forward with the benefit of helping people repair old systems with dead keyboards. This just solidifies my chances of buying stuff from them if I ever need to design and prototype a PCB for a project, with high quality and quick turn-around of the boards.

@The 8-Bit Guy my name is David too, im 15 years old and im very motivated by your videos. thanks for helping me find a hobby that i enjoy.

I can't believe the makers of that kit thought that keyboard was in any way shape or form acceptable. Specially at the premium pricing for that kit. I mean it's just a bunch of bare microscwitches without any keycaps on them, with their labels being literally just a silk screen on a PCB. When he took the keyboard out i assumed the keycaps were in a separate bag, but nope, that was the whole thing. Like.. seriously? Using even the cheapest keyboard switches (or just rubber membrane) and cheapest plastic caps would give the user wayyy better typing experience at about the same manufacturing price.

@Okurka.

3 жыл бұрын

TFW8B have a 200% markup on their prices.

@doc_sav

3 жыл бұрын

There are keyboards that use switches like that (The PocketType for instance), but they always come with keycaps and are designed not to flex like crazy like a PCB. Point being that the keyboard could have been done cheaply AND right.

@mikesnapper9001

3 жыл бұрын

@Tone. He had shown two original pet keyboards in the video and both had keycaps. The second bigger one actually looked pretty comfy. So what you get with this kit is nowhere close to the original. You basically get a cheap mechanical keyboard with no caps, plain and simple. Typing any longer code on that would be a nightmare.

@telaneo

3 жыл бұрын

@Tone. Even the cash register style keyboard is better than that. There's nothing authentic with that keyboard.

@DataWaveTaGo

3 жыл бұрын

re: I can't believe the makers of that kit thought that keyboard was in any way shape or form acceptable Brits you know...3rd rate is good enough.

Way back in the day I worked on a green screen monitor, doing airline reservations in Omaha, NE, watching your video brought back some memories! A 3D printed case of some sort would be a great idea to go with this little PET project.

@offscreen6578

3 жыл бұрын

I see what you did there... Also how did you comment 11 hours ago!?

@virtualtools_3021

3 жыл бұрын

@@offscreen6578 probably using a keyboard, maybe a touchscreen?

@electronicengineer

3 жыл бұрын

@@offscreen6578 Dave probably released the video early for his Patreon supporters.

man i miss my vic 20 and those old Compute! Magazines.. Spent every Saturday ytying to code games Good times!!

@XalphYT

3 жыл бұрын

Old Compute! magazines have more technical information in a single issue than modern-day technical manuals have in total, assuming what you buy has a manual to begin with.

I couldn't help but smirk when his keyboard parts took FOREVER in transit. Welcome to the wonderful world of mechanical keyboards. Now join a group buy, fork over 400 dollars and wait for 2 years for you new keyboard kit! Love the look of a PCB loaded up with Cherry MX Blacks. Nice!

i hate to be that person (but im going to be anyway), but when soldering pins you need to put the solder into the pin and pad, not the iron. makes it super quick to just fire through pins

@GreensladeNZ

3 жыл бұрын

I'm glad someone said it (and it wasn't me this time)

@Okurka.

3 жыл бұрын

They are badly designed boards; the pads are too small to heat up with a soldering iron.

@thomasmroz

3 жыл бұрын

You're absolutely right. Heat the pin and pad together, then bring solder in. It's just an OCD thing for me. I notice a lot of hobby guys doing it.

@MarkHudson2

3 жыл бұрын

Melting a bead of solder onto the iron is a habit from working with solid-wire solder and a separate container of paste flux.

Looks like it would be a good PET project.

@ChrisLeeW00

3 жыл бұрын

For me, a good keyboard layout is a bit of a PET peeve, though.

I remember playing Space Invaders on the PET 2001 machine in school at 4th grade which was 1983 at the time. Our elementary school in San Francisco area were one of the first group to have the PET machines in the classroom. On my first day there it was sitting a few feet from my desk. I was like..WOW! I was also the lucky few to actually take it home during the summer vacation and bring it back before new school year started. Great times!

Damn! Just whipped up two PCB designs outta nowhere! They look so much better! And I'm always impressed when I see PCBWay boards in videos. They look high quality, solid, and sexy. Great video and effort from everyone involved!

"...it's actually nice to type on..." Not really a surprise, when you use Cherry MX mechanical keyboard switches.

@NachoMist

3 жыл бұрын

so long as you use blacks like he did

@amirpourghoureiyan1637

3 жыл бұрын

I think it was surprise at the keyboard being decent even though it was made in a couple of days, TexElec makes logic boards and isn't as experienced as someone who makes and sells keyboards. The fact that it didn't just match the PET's but improved on it is an achievement. I'm actually glad one of the retro reviewers actually provided a solution instead of just complaining like others, the 8-Bit Guy has been pretty good at offering new ideas and ways to make the most of these hobby projects

@heroclix0rz

3 жыл бұрын

Zealios or bust.

@nothlur

3 жыл бұрын

should've gone with gaterons or kailhs...

@AnonymousGentooman

3 жыл бұрын

i currently have cherry mx reds and my main complaint is they are too light, but im going with kalih blacks because on comparisons i've seen they are always rated between "better than mx blacks" or "slightly worse", and they are like 20 bucks cheaper (or 40, because after import tax anything i buy is double priced)

The keyboard part of the video is fantastic! nice work!

Generally when building a kit with socketed ICs I first install the power circuitry, power up the board with no other chips and check for proper voltages, then install all of the chips. But, I know you just wanted an excuse to troubleshoot! Very nice kit - I remember the PET in it's heyday but could not afford it as a poor high school kid. The other tool I find handy is the bracket which holds the board for easy flipping when soldering. Got it on Amazon recently is really handy.

I really enjoy your videos. In this one I learned your techniques for soldering components to the PCB. Thanks for the high quality production.

Wow that takes me back, to dim memories of a stripling of a lad myself who got his hands on a broken Commodore Pet and not knowing very much about electronics, I had this "Teach yourself electronics" book which was a popular series in the days before Dummies books and with a borrowed GPO multimeter, a nasty stinky and somewhat lethal soldering iron and scavenging many non propriertory parts from other devices I managed to get the bloody thing working. Lacking software etc I then had to find ways to get all that and surprisingly it worked, sold it for a small to medium fortune and used that to buy some very early IBM's and my Sinclair ZX80 first issue kit. Quite a funny story in the eighties my mum at the Times interviewed Sir Clive and she actually said to him "Did you know what your machine did to our carpets?" because that ZX80 got so hot and no computer desks in them days lol

@Grunchy005

3 жыл бұрын

Awesome story :) Sadly I was too young/too old! When I was a kid PETs were new and unaffordable when you're like 10 yrs old. Then when they finally plummeted in value and I could afford one, I was too old to play around with that old stuff, I had me a Toshiba T1200 and it was PURRRfect. Then I ditched that boat anchor and by the time I realized what I was missing, all that stuff was either gone or unaffordable again. GROAN!

That's pretty cool. I wish there was something similar for 486 PC's. I have ao486 installed on my MiSTer FPGA, but I would like to see a board that all allows you to install different chips representing the different parts of an old 486 PC. That way you get smaller modern parts and also the experience of building the PC.

@ajacocks

3 жыл бұрын

If you’re truly interested, please post here, as someone is considering making just that: www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=72398

@lustechsource5197

3 жыл бұрын

@@ajacocks Oh wow! Thanks!

That's a neat project, especially for anyone who grew up with the Commodore PET. For anyone who wants to have a quick play with the PET but are not ready to commit to the whole kit or buy a real PET, I can recommend the VICE emulator, I believe it supports all PET models.

@Grunchy005

3 жыл бұрын

People eschew the emulator but for no good reason IMO, it works damn fast, it's very accurate, it's always at hand. Virtual machine! I do believe the entire Android/IOS systems are nothing but virtual machines.

The PETSCII robots tile editor is a pretty cool proof of concept it’s pretty neat overall Love that stuff LOL😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃

"Planet X0 : Origins" . This time, you'll defend Earth from a Protoids invasion !

@johndododoe1411

3 жыл бұрын

Actually, in the official story from the game trailer X0 would not encounter any protoids, only lower grade enemies.

Man that green phosphor monitor is PERFECT! Reminds me of learning to type on the old TRS-80 Model 4’s in high school 🤣

FYI , for soldering circuit I recommend a magnifier lamp. It adds light and makes board easier to see. BUT the best reason is it blocks the fumes of soldering. I have one florescent and one led

I never get tired of your video. It is fun to watch and also learn about computers from the 80s I myself am from 1974 and my first computer was a Commodore 64 and some fun memories from back then playing games and programing in Basic a little bit :-)

The irony of asking if I "made it this far" when KZread decided to throw not one, not two, but SIX mid-roll ads into your video... KZread's getting extremely aggressive with automatic mid-rolls so you may want to take manual control of them, as having to watch an ad or two roughly every 4 minutes makes it really hard to follow along with the things you're talking about.

@PhantasmNZ

3 жыл бұрын

I’m totally happy to watch ads to support the channel - but the constant and often unskippable mid rolls made this the most painful 26 minutes of 8 bit guy I’ve ever watched. Please please get the midrolls under control - they are really spoiling your great content

@Pixelmusement

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ffinity I don't want to have to do that, not for a channel with content I like. Besides, speaking as a creator myself, I know there's manual controls over mid-roll ads, but it was a very recent change which caused the level of automatic ads to go nuts and not everyone's noticed or got informed the change was even happening, so I wanted to comment on this to make sure David's aware of what just happened with regards to automatic ads on his video. :B

@awilliams1701

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhantasmNZ He has no control over that. KZread is being a bunch of assholes lately and it's getting worse.

@awilliams1701

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ffinity I can at home, but not at work. I'm a programmer, but we aren't allowed to have local admin rights anymore. sigh.....

@awilliams1701

3 жыл бұрын

I lost count. It was more than 6. I'm like is this an hour long video or something? Seriously!!!!! This is freaking insane.

19:05 The 8-Bit Guy has become a victim of Louis DeJoy and his USPS "cost cutting"

@SoleaGalilei

3 жыл бұрын

Now it's war!

@Y.Moroboshi

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah that’s the first thing I thought too. The kneecapping of the USPS has affected one of our favorite KZreadrs. :/

To hold the sockets in place while soldering, a clump of blu-tak works a treat...and it removes easily provided it's not gotten too warm and gloopy.

Big upvotes for this, love that you were able to get a keyboard working from scratch in that timeframe.

Always love the building things episodes. Much like the 'A-Team' build episode. It always peaks my curiosity in creativity.

@Grunchy005

3 жыл бұрын

"pique" is a word

Man, these weeks without The 8-Bit Guy were hard. As a punishment for taking so long, I'm gonna watch this video 10 times. Skipping no ad. Hope you're happy.

This thing is very cool. If it was only about $70 cheaper, or came with a full-size keyboard kit, like you added, I would buy it in a heartbeat. Of course I already have a working vintage 2001 PET. This is the best of the retro-ish computer kits I've seen.

This was awesome! Loved all the details and how you explained everything so well :) Thanks 8-Bit Guy!!

I noticed Tynemouth Software on the PCB. North Shields is where I had my first programming job back in the 90s lol. A small world.

@ActualCharky

3 жыл бұрын

I've noticed the name popping up here and there on retro youtube for years... never not weird seeing it so far from home!

@DaveCurran

3 жыл бұрын

@@ActualCharky Still weird seeing the kits I make here in Tynemouth popping up all over the world.

@bugmanuk

3 жыл бұрын

@@DaveCurran I've followed this channel for years and was suprised to read Tynemouth on the PCB! I only live in Cullercoats!

@DaveCurran

3 жыл бұрын

@@bugmanuk if you want to save on postage, I'm sure we can sort something out.

@ExperimentIV

3 жыл бұрын

Dave Curran oh wow, you make these kits? that rules. my dad used to have like 30 PETs, but my mom made him sell them all before i was born. someday when i can afford to, i’d love to get him one of these - maybe by then our local user group will be able to have in person meetings again!

I would absolutely love to have something like the Mini-PET, but that upfront investment is just so hard for my wallet to justify. Still, what an absolutely brilliant piece of hardware! Maybe these will be cheaper with time...

@The8BitGuy

3 жыл бұрын

I heard a rumor there might be a cheaper, surface-mount version. But we'll see..

@markmaker2488

3 жыл бұрын

The 8-Bit Guy I’ve heard the same rumour, apparently it’s similar to the Commodore 64, but made from all off the shelf components.

@EvilSandwich

3 жыл бұрын

@@The8BitGuy Ouch, but surface mount soldering though. I guess it's time to get my tweezers and paste. lol

@RetroReviewYT

3 жыл бұрын

The 8-Bit Guy what I’d like to see is a modern day equivalent to the Apple II GS. The Apple II has peaked my interest in the pre Macintosh era Apple and something like that would be nice.

@danielmantione

3 жыл бұрын

@@The8BitGuy SMD parts certainly can be cheaper than DIP components, but for the price they are asking, the cost of the components should not be the problem. My initial though was that there was about €50 of components on it, but since they are using original WDC parts it might be a bit more. Still, I don't see how you could reach €100 with the components on the board. Whatever the reason of the cost, there should be plenty opportunities to reduce the cost without resorting to SMD.

I had the same green screen monitor, it was branded Sharp. Probably for the MZ series computers. It was rated for 40 columns, but worked fine with 80 columns composite too. Loved it.

Amazing. I hope there will be more of similar products available for other popular platforms, ideally fully open source, so future improvements can be done. I highly appreciate the community’s tremendous efforts to keep Commodore alive in modern world. Keep up the awesome work and hopefully carry the legacy of the 8-bit computers into the future.

I've watched all of your videos, I swear even if I have no clue what's happening, I always get intrigued and always love every video

2:11 Nerdy dad looks through magnifying glass at solder job on BYO Commodore PET board. I doubt I'll see a better representation of modern retro computing lol.

Here's the download of my game RPG Quest: Minimae (aka PETima) that was shown in the video, in case anyone wants to try it: 8bitshowandtell.com/prg/petima.prg

Dude, you might've found it to be arduous to include all of the soldering steps you took at the beginning but a lot of those were like the best kind of "oh duh" reminders for people like me who don't solder nearly enough to think about things differently. Thanks!

"as a DYI kit." Ah yes, the Do-Yt-Iourself kit

@SteveJones172pilot

3 жыл бұрын

In my case, many times it's "Do yourself in.." as in way over my head.. :-)

@captainchaos3667

3 жыл бұрын

Do it Yourself kIt. 😉

@bubgamingandvlogs3870

3 жыл бұрын

Do yourself it kit

@gavinpalmer9174

2 жыл бұрын

My thoughts exactly😂

"Made it this far". Hah! I'm always starving for more 8bit guy videos... So please, keep em comming ;)

I have a Commodore monochrome monitor. Having had a Vic 20 in my teen years and using it, cleaning it out after spilled drinks and generally being excited made me become a computer tech.

Thanks 8-Bit Guy for another awesome video. I love building stuff like this. Hopefully in time there will be a full kit with case, keyboard, et al.

So if Planet X2 is on the C64, Planet X3 is on DOS, Planet X1 is on the VIC-20, so would Planet X0 be on the PET?

@amirpourghoureiyan1637

3 жыл бұрын

Planet X1 came out on the VIC-20 years ago, it just needs a RAM expansion to run since the system lacks resources for more complex games that would've run fine on other machines of its day like the 64 and Spectrum.

@MCerJack

3 жыл бұрын

LOL Planet X0 is a board game

@niko5008

3 жыл бұрын

And how about Planet X-1? Does it run on the Commodore 63?

@notmuch_23

3 жыл бұрын

@@niko5008 No, it runs on a 20 x 4 character LCD screen Planet X-2 runs on an Altair 8088.

Thanks for the post, David. I finished your back catalog ages ago. Dying for new content these days. Really helps get me through my workouts. Cheers!

Cool stuff! Here's hoping they follow this up with a Mini VIC-20.

I love your map editor! I love that it even works on the 128 in 128 mode and the Amiga 4000 without an emulator (with only minor changes on BASICally any Commodore machine).

17:15 - There was Cherry MX Lock switch, that when pressed once latched down and unlocked when pushed second time. Hard to get one though.

@XalphYT

3 жыл бұрын

Megu Shirazawa With this solution though, you can use one MX switch type for the entire board, instead of having to search for something ultra rare.

@MeguRED

3 жыл бұрын

@@XalphYT It's more about knowing there were such switches rather than actually using those. Getting one (as an option) for use in such a project wouldn't hurt though.

@XalphYT

3 жыл бұрын

True, but it doesn't matter if you live in Europe, Asia, or the Americas: Odds are, you will be able to find someone that will sell you non-latching MX switches. When you go for the latching variation, your options drop significantly throughout the world.

@MeguRED

3 жыл бұрын

@@XalphYT Switches themselves are externally the same and thus there wouldn't be much trouble making both types fit into the PCB. Of course options drop if you choose the latching one, but it's not like I could get original PET where I live either. Good news with that locking MX switch is that it'd be drop-in replacement as long as the board treats the switch as a latching one. The only thing that's different from standard MX switch is LED recess moved to the right.

"i didn't think it was possible to make a keyboard worse than that" smith-corona leaf spring: *allow me to introduce myself*

@digiowl9599

3 жыл бұрын

I think Sinclair has everyone beat. Never mind the rubber stuff on the ZX81 and Spectrum, the ZX80 was just a membrane sheet.

Over the past days i have fallen in love with your videos! I wasn't yet born when these machines were in use but i really love their simplicity, how a single person can understand pretty much everything about an old 8 bit computer. I think ill watch these videos, including the commodore history, as ill learn about digital electronics. Im not at that point tho, not yet at least. Thank you for making these videos

Regarding the soldering, you will create a more reliable joint if you feed the solder onto the joint, as the flux core can remove any oxidation on the joint rather than burning away on the iron. I find that having a bit of solder on the tip, pressing it against the pad+leg then feeding solder from the opposite side (or thereabouts) works well. Depends on having a good iron, don't get me started about soldering irons. Also, for your connection between the to-220 and the board, grab some flux. Any time you can't feed in flux core solder into the joint, you should use flux. I keep a tube of thick flux and a flux pen on my own bench. Thin flux from a pen would be better for that joint but thick is best for any rework you ever need to do. Invaluable for SMD work. For your quick connection between the keyboard and computer, grab some "DuPont cable" (actual name) for next time. That stuff sneaks into all my projects.

It should be mandatory to check continuity after soldering and before plugging in, it's saves a lot of headaches. When you sell your PCs you should supply allowable ohm values to be checked.

@absurdengineering

3 жыл бұрын

Test continuity on a few hundred pins? Lol. Nobody does that manually. No point. Visual inspection is where it’s at for such kits.

@SidneyCritic

3 жыл бұрын

@@absurdengineering No only on the power rails, because that's the only thing that will cause stuff to burn, ie, if it's zero ohms don't plug in the power.

"In Transit, Arriving Late" That's been the story of my eBay life for the past three weeks...

You don't need a kernel modification for a better layout. You just have to do what modern custom keyboards do: have a micro-processor emit the key codes, and let software handle the rest. That way you can use any layout you want, the kernel won't care.

Thanks David, thoroughly enjoyed watching this.

18:57 I get the feeling a whole bunch of orders had this problem. I ordered something that had this problem around that time as well. USPS going through an existential crisis probably had something to do with it.

Cutting those labels precisely: metal ruler, single sided razor blade or hobby knife, cutting pad.

@markevans2294

3 жыл бұрын

Cutting them so as to remove the lines would have taken at least twice as long.

@amirpourghoureiyan1637

3 жыл бұрын

I'd honestly just use a sharpie if I was making this for myself

@minastaros

3 жыл бұрын

I would have just cut slightly right of the black line, then cut left of it and done.

I used, ages ago, the version of PET without the built-in cassette deck and with a more normal(-ish) keyboard as an instrument controller in a laboratory, because of its GP-IB (IEEE-488) bus. This is _really_ a blast from the past. Thank you!

These sort of videos showing older technology always give me so much more appreciation for the old computers. To see what they did with basic parts is amazing.

Do you have any pets in your home? 8-bit guy: Yes

@ttv_switcher260

3 жыл бұрын

he has a lot of cats soo you are right

@gglobensky

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah but they are not in good shape. I have one rotting in my basement because it's missing parts... That can get pretty bleak pretty quick haha

@MrDuncl

3 жыл бұрын

@@gglobensky I hope you are talking about a computer. Otherwise it sounds gruesome.

@Grunchy005

3 жыл бұрын

My cat pet is missing all her tooth parts, she wanders around with her tongue sticking half out "merrrrrwwwww! MERRRRRRRRRW!" Yeah she's drunk. So what.

that video jack is already better designed than the apple ii ones :)

Well that's a pretty cool little computer kit. I like the idea of those power switching jumpers to allow different polarity power supplies! I've never seen that before on anything. Like that keyboard PCB design too.

I couldn't help but think of using some roughed up CRT for you to mount this board inside it, drill a hole for the power to the board on the back of the CRT case and fix up the keyboard connector, grab an extension for the keyboard connector so you can plug that out back too! It'll resemble an all in one mac design yet a PET CRT, you could even go as far to perhaps add some graphics to the CRT bezels with the PET logo and call it ''The PET Box'' I think this would be a cool idea since it would be easy to transport too!

Ooooo! Sharp display!

@TheLordOfNothing

3 жыл бұрын

Tom Carlson you were first.

Popping the spacebar on two switches really isn't a good implementation. The official spec for Cherry spacebar calls for one switch in the centre (though it doesn't have to be dead centre, 6.25u spacebar has a couple different implementations where the centre stem could be slightly offset) and supported on either side by stabilisers that are coupled together using a wire. This will allow the spacebar to depress smoothly even if you press on it off-centre. It's pretty trivial to implement the cutouts for stablisers (you basically just need to have 4 correctly-sized holes, 2 sets on each side of the spacebar for the stabilisers to clip into the PCB. Cherry stabs are standard parts, and any decent enthusiast mechanical keyboard store will have them. Edit: The keycaps you're using are a cylindrical sculpted profile, which means that the keytop on each row has a different angle. If you want them to be all uniform, try looking into uniform caps such as DSA or XDA profiles, they give you more flexibility to implement oddball layouts (such as what you're trying to do in this video) since every row is uniform. Edit: Instead of using stickers, which may peel off over time, you can try getting PBT blank keycaps, and use a thermal print transfer process called 'dye sublimation' to permanently print the label onto the keycaps. This printing method essentially 'infuse' the ink onto the top layer of plastic (PBT is somewhat porous, and heating up the cap before printing allow the pores to open up and let the ink seep onto the surface, which then close up again after cooling, resulting in durable printed legends that will not fade)

@jonathanbuzzard6648

3 жыл бұрын

I would be tempted at seeing if you could 3d print inserts for the PET keycaps so they can be put on MX switches. I have no idea if it is possible but from the video it looked like it would be. Should definitely have used a stabilizer for the space bar though.

@blenderchild

3 жыл бұрын

agreed. also specifically regarding the keycaps, laser etched pbt xda may be a way to go. i don't know if you're into custom keyboards, but i've seen people laser etch mbk keycaps for choc switches at their maker space fairly easily, and it may be a cheaper solution temporarily

Your videos never disappoint! I grew up with a Vic -20. Your topics hit home. Thank You!

OMG - Haven't seen that program running (The one at 10:31) since 1983 or so! I'm so breaking out the old Vic 20 tonight and writing that again myself. So cool you have that specific program in the video! As I recall that was the "random number generator" sample program that was in the book that came with the Vic-20... The one with the little smiling VIC-20 guy on it.. Thanks again!

25:36 He basically ported Mario Maker to Commodore machines and it wasn't even the main focus of the video. Thanks for the tile editor, I imagine it will be very useful for others looking to do some retro game dev

Yeah, the whole “In Transit - Arriving Late” has been happening a lot lately; most likely due to COVID. It seems to be completely random too. I’ve ordered things at the same time and one will arrive on time and the other is delayed by at least a week. It usually happens to things you’re hoping to get quickly. 🙄

@uttherkunst3806

3 жыл бұрын

Most likely due to the US president installing a lackey as postmaster with the intent of throwing an election.

That vendor is awesome! Customer experience is still alive!

Literally made a new keyboard from scratch in a few days on a whim for this video. That's awesome. This is why I love your videos, and actually turn off adblock.