I would like to thank you for this very educational video. I am new to machinist work and did not know how to save my inserts.. all the comments on here where other people knew tricks to keep from eating inserts so much were just as helpful as the video... when put together (comments and video), I learned some neat tricks. I really appreciate these videos... I get the opportunity to learn without paying for the education through personal experience. I am not the type of person who could make videos, but i do enjoy learning from other people's experiences. Thanks! (anyone who is not still learning is too stubborn to learn!).

Box Hill Tech School 1975: We were told that. you need to take a deep cut to get under the hard surface of cast iron. This has been a good demonstration of why you need to do it. I’m amazed that Keith does not know that.

Another great video, Keith. Well-paced and appropriate commentary, on point comments, exactly what we enjoy hearing; your feelings and opinion. Too many other machining channels jabber away endlessly, while you give us exactly what we need. Thank you.

Been looking forward to this ever since Windy Hill Foundry cast it.

@kaibroeking9968

3 жыл бұрын

+1 ^^

G'day Keith, I hope that you do not have excessive costs with your consumables. I am impressed with your "feel". You always comment on how you feel something isn't quite right and then you check and adjust as required.

Vintage Machinery and a cup of coffee. Great way to start the day.

Don't tickle the hard outer layer keith. Get an insert with a decent radius and take a deeper initial cut to get under the skin.

You are a meticulous Craftsman, sir. It is a pleasure to be taught by you.

Hi Keith, I have usually took a deep cut whenever there's a scale or hard layer whatever, just turned the feed and speed down a bit. The hammering which is actually lighter that way will happen far from the corner and even if there is some light chipping going on the insert will survive and be just as good afterwards. Also a lot faster way

Good show from a great man.

Hi Keith, I am pleased to see this part complete as I am looking forward watching the gear cutting... Have a good weekend Paul,,

Nice work Keith. It is amazing hard that scale was on the C.I. blank - and how fast it chewed up inserts.

Coming up, Metal Planer Restoration 100: First chips :p Really gives you an appreciation of the hard work and effort that goes into restoring a 100+ year old machine to better than factory tolerances... thank you Sir!

I've read many collated volumes of UK Model Engineering magazines from the 1930's era. Many models were made from mail ordered casting sets, on small lathes (3 1/2" centre height was the classic size, in the USA this would be called 7" swing), using HSS tooling, or even just high carbon tooling. The approved procedure was to make the cut directly to BELOW the outer sand/scale layer - this meant slowing the lathe right down, using back gear, and using deep cut, slow feed. Even with this technique, lots of trips to the grinder for sharpening would be involved.

Thanks for sharing!

Gear videos are some of my favorite videos. Very enjoyable to watch. Thanks, Keith.

Great video yet again Keith. For cast iron, Keith Appleton recommends always going in hard and deep to get under the scale and sand in one pass, because cutting that stuff wrecks tools. Once past that outer layer, you can focus on dimension and finish without wearing out tools.

THANK YOU...for sharing. Very much enjoyed.

Great skills.

Nice, looking forward to it being done..

I guess the level of skill you have acquired over the years, makes some of these guys forget that your day job is completely different from your machinist hobby.

@princepa123

3 жыл бұрын

definitely showing that speeds and feeds need to be looked at. Also, true up cylindrical runout prior to machining both end faces.

6:44 - "Touch off" - and add .1. Keith, you have a ton of tools, and your dedication to accuracy is to be commended. Your scraping skills are a wonder. And then, from time to time, when you should be asking for advice, you keep doing what doesn't work. Skip to 17:44 - NOT AGAIN! Yes, once again. C ya later...

Really enjoyed the keyway info. Thanks, great session.

That arbour (arbor) looks like it would have been ideal for good 'ol turning between centres (centers), saving all that 4 jaw, dial indicator shenanigans

Half way to a finished part!

Thanks for the video Keith 👍🇬🇧

Cut it ‘under the skin’. Frist cut give it 0,100”. Then you will save your insert.

@Panzax1

3 жыл бұрын

Yep, and use a large radius insert for roughing and a small(er) radius for finishing. Surface speed needs to be kept in check too.

@garybrenner6236

3 жыл бұрын

@@Panzax1 You would think he would know that. The surface of many iron castings , "chilled iron" is extremely hard, so you must cut underneath it.

@sthenzel

3 жыл бұрын

Or, if not possible, an angle grinder with a flap disk also works on the lathe. Add a rag to protect the ways from the dust.

@MrMichaeljab

3 жыл бұрын

I'm yelling at my screen "Take a heavier cut on the first pass!" He paid for it in inserts.

@mathewmolk2089

3 жыл бұрын

One more "GET UNDER THE FRIGGIN SCALE!!!! and yo Keith, Remember the rest of us are all perfect and NEVER screw up. Not EVER (Anybody want to bet the after all this riding KR never forgets to dig under scale again ).

I grew up in my father's machine shop where our primary products were solid mandrels and solid centers. My father was always quick to point out that arbors hold cutters and mandrels hold the workpiece.

When he started turning the diameter and said “I’m going to take a light cut to start with”, I was yelling at the screen, “NOOOOO!” Well there goes another insert!

@littleworkshopofhorrors2395

3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely blooming right. First cut should be a heavy cut to get under the hard skin, not pussyfoot around taking more of the insert than the job.

@hrenes

3 жыл бұрын

It is our doom that we get too smart, sitting on the couch watching machining videos 😂😂😂😜

@justinl.3587

3 жыл бұрын

He's a hacker, he doesn't really do anything the way it should be done exactly.

@JasonTHutchinson

3 жыл бұрын

As soon as I saw a spark the 3rd time, I figured out he should be taking heavy cuts. A production shop would probably fire a guy like that.

@littleworkshopofhorrors2395

3 жыл бұрын

@@justinl.3587 to be fair there are many ways to achieve an aim. In a homedhop environment, efficency isn't always the top priority. As for me, inserts are expensive so i try not to ruin them so quickly.😉

Nice and easy just learning so good to follow

Wow never saw sparks on a turning. really neat to see this one go all the way from making a mold to casting and now the cutting to the final part.

The live center has some wobble in it too, so you'll never get it perfectly true. And you initially indicated the arbor BEFORE bringing in the live center and the arbor was wobbling at the far end, so the setup changed when you eventually inserted that live center. I guess.

@sferg9582

3 жыл бұрын

I saw that too. Apparently the chuck jaws were worn.

@janetflecher2683

3 жыл бұрын

It was clear that the right end of the arbor was not running true before Keith brought the live center up to the arbor. I think that the arbor was not straight. But its clear that as Keith was zeroing things in that the shaft was not spinning true. I was wondering what the effect of bringing the shaft into true with the live center would be.

@matthiaspenzlin6465

3 жыл бұрын

@@janetflecher2683 by holding one end of the arbor with the live center tight and correct the runout with the jaw, you will flex the arbor. when you now use the arbor without the live center holding one one tight, the arbor will flex back. now you will see the same runout, quit in opposite direction

Gday Kieth, the scale is certainly hard on the inserts, you got lucky with the arbor there, saved you heaps of time and material, take care mate, cheers Matty

A time saver that I use when mounting stock into the chuck is a carriage bolt that I turned the sharp edge off the head so that I've got a flat edge on the side of the head, and then I mount it in a tool holder so that I can use the cross slide or compound to push my stock as centered or flat into the chuck as I can get it before I start turning. It just takes me a minute or two to mount my stock now.

slow spindle speed down and take deeper first cut

When you have a scaled surface, isn't it better to take a heavier cut to get underneath the scale?

@Mishn0

3 жыл бұрын

I was going to go there too. That's what Keith Appleton has said on his model steam engine channel.

@8888tallguy

3 жыл бұрын

Why not hit on the belt sander instead of sacrificing inserts?

Good eye ,double checking. Looking forward to tooth cutting

I've always taken a heavy first cut on CI to get under the skin. Strange choice of tool shape for facing, the first cut is apparently breaking off that small tip. 18:50 That's more like it :)

@mlenstra

3 жыл бұрын

Came here for this. Instead of taking a very light cut where you’re forcing the cutter to cut through the hardened layer itself, take a much more aggressive cut so that the hardened layer is removed all in one go and the cutter actually travels through the softer material below. Can be tricky in a setup like this though, where we saw how the high cutting forces can throw the arbor out of alignment.

@davidcolwill860

3 жыл бұрын

Yup that's the way to do it!

@5tr41ghtGuy

3 жыл бұрын

I'm curious if a HSS cutter would have fared any better on the hard shell than the carbide insert? I know interrupted cuts are hard on carbide. At the very least it is cheap and easy to resharpen HSS when it gets dull.

@spentacle

3 жыл бұрын

@@5tr41ghtGuy The point really is to get right under the skin so the cut is NOT interrupted.

@mlenstra

3 жыл бұрын

@@5tr41ghtGuy in this exact same too-shallow cut it might indeed have fared a bit better, depending on the grind. HSS is typically sharper than carbide, so it deals with shallow cuts a little better with less tendency to rub instead of cut. It’s also way softer, so it still wouldn’t last long I reckon. Carbide with a deeper cut beats all. A good carbide insert can easily remove a lot of material in one pass given adequate work holding and power, and doing it this way prevents the tool edge from ever having to touch the hardened skin layer of the material.

Nice!!

Keith, my former employment was at the Dodge Mfg. plant in Mishawaka, IN where a lot of machining was done on cast iron. It is my impression that they used lower speeds and feeds than you do along with Rycosol 66 coolant and always cut deeper than the fire scale. They did use carbide insert tooling also.

Really enjoy your videos sir! I tend to hit that like button as soon as the video starts🤪

Keith having fun. :-)

Keith: Any news on the progress of the steam stoker engine? Curious minds want to know. Thanks for the video. Jon

Another flawless casting from Windy Hill Foundry

@Frankowillo

3 жыл бұрын

LOL

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 🛠️ *Introduction to the project of making a new gear for a metal planer restoration, highlighting the process involves multiple videos due to the extensive work required.* 00:30 🤝 *Mention of collaboration with a friend who provided original parts for measurement, emphasizing the importance of community and sharing resources in restoration projects.* 00:58 🏭 *Description of the process from 3D modeling to casting the gear in cast iron, showcasing modern technology's role in traditional restoration work.* 01:10 🛠️ *Beginning of the machining process for the new gear, focusing on the technical aspects and precision required in restoration.* 02:28 🔧 *Adjustments made during the machining process to ensure accuracy, reflecting the iterative nature of machining work.* 03:47 ⚙️ *Discussion on the wear of machining inserts and the challenges of working with hard outer scales of castings, illustrating the complexities of machining different materials.* 06:13 📏 *Precision measurement and adjustments to achieve the correct dimensions of the gear, highlighting meticulous attention to detail.* 09:40 🔄 *Techniques used to correct runout and ensure the gear operates smoothly, demonstrating problem-solving in machining.* 12:15 🔑 *Broaching a keyway into the hub, a critical step for fitting the gear onto the machine, underscoring the importance of each step in the restoration process.* 14:10 🛠️ *Creation of a custom arbor for machining, showcasing adaptability and resourcefulness in the workshop.* 17:30 📐 *Finalizing the gear's dimensions before cutting teeth, setting the stage for the next phase of the restoration.* 24:31 🎉 *Completion of the gear blank preparation, ready for tooth cutting in a future video, marking a significant milestone in the restoration project.* 25:28 🕰️ *Mention of time-saving due to finding a ready-made arbor, highlighting the benefits of reusing and adapting existing tools.* 25:54 📢 *Encouragement for viewers to engage with the content through subscriptions, comments, and likes, aiming to build a community around the restoration project.* Made with HARPA AI

It's the scale outside the metal

Keith,you may want to check the run out on that live center, it looked to me it is starting to get loose.

Nice to see the chips flying again. I was beginning to go into withdrawal.

I recall my father never allowed anyone in his workshop to use insert cutters with blanks that were fresh from the forge for just this reason. He insisted the first cuts through the outer coating always be removed with hand-ground tools made from either high speed steel or carbide rods. If he found anyone trying to get away with it he would dock the cost of the ruined insert from their pay!

Hope The Machines Make It And Kitties Too

For those arbors it might be wise to make them so you can just run them between centers. No issues getting it running true if you need them again in the future.

Keith the savvy youtuber saves his worn out bits for taking light initial cuts on cast iron and bates a large number of followers to make the same comment.

One of Keith's most common phrases is "Right on the money"

Good Morning Grand Pa,

Hiya Keith

I swear i saw toolpost move 7:43

@justinl.3587

3 жыл бұрын

Definitely did. He dug in plus the machine is probably beat like a rented mule.

Since Windy Hill Foundry seems to be producing a lot of cast iron work, maybe they should invest in an annealing furnace. This should eliminate the "chilled skin" problem and enable them to tailor the properties of the cast iron that is produced.

@samueltaylor4989

3 жыл бұрын

Clark at Windy Hill Foundry does have a kiln and does anneal all his castings. Even so, there are sometimes inclusions and hard spots.

@paulcopeland9035

3 жыл бұрын

You need to visit Windy Hill Foundry's channel. He mentions or shows his annealing furnace in every video.

@chrisarmstrong8198

3 жыл бұрын

@@paulcopeland9035 Yes, you're right. Clark calls it "stress relieving". However, it obviously didn't get rid of the hard skin on Keith's casting. Several KZreadrs (e.g. Joe Pieczynski) are building model steam engines using small cast iron castings that don't seem to have the hard skin. It would be interesting to know what extra treatment or different composition enables them to achieve this.

Test out using some beefy HSS to cut through the scale, they are cheap and can be reground easily. The ceramic inserts are brittle.

The broach was tilted far back on the second cut. The under side is most likely over cut.

would grinding the hard face off saved an insert?

Sometimes better to make bigger cut to peel hard skin of the casting. Also DNMG tip is not the best for such job.

We have snow today.

It looked like the center was wobbling when you were indicating that before you pulled in the live center. I wondered if that didn't cause your later changes in center. Cheers

last guy is correct cut through the scale it is full of silicates and will kill cutters. First cut should be deeper. Take the plunge dude.

Always enjoy your videos Keith...thanks! However, I noticed the theme music was a bit wonky on this one?

Good morning from St John Parish, Louisiana 23 Oct 20.

@googleuser859

3 жыл бұрын

What time is it at St John parish, Louisiana 23 Oct 20?

@billmorris2613

3 жыл бұрын

Google User When I posted it about an hour ago it was around 10 AM central daylight savings time. It is now 11:10 AM CDST.

As Keith Appleton would say, your casting is chilled.

Nice work Keith. I am assuming you can leave the rough surface in the indented area because it is a low speed gear, and balance is not a big issue. Would I be right in assuming if it was something that was rotating at high speeds you would need to clean up the inside surface of the indent to get the best balance possible?

Could you grind the hard scale before machining?

There's a lot to be said for using the correct insert and geometry for the job at hand. JIM

Hotshot oven first, check the handbook.

Would it be worth it to bust off the scale with some rough-grit sandpaper or a diamond?

Why so much stickout on the arbor- put the shoulder up against the chuck jaws and the dial in on the shaft , not the shoulder. Couldn't see in the video, but my guess is there is a chamfer on that gear- should have done that on the blank.

I'm not a machinist. Question: Why not hit the outer surface of the cast blank with a grinder to take the hard scale off before machining it?

I wonder if you could Anneal the casting prior to machining maybe that would take some of the hardness out of the casting

@robertoswalt319

3 жыл бұрын

On Windy Hills channel, Clark says that he puts the castings in a kiln to help reduce stress. My guess is that the castings would need to be heated to near melting in order to remove the hardness from the edge

Would it have been possible to use an angle grinder to get that scale off - the tool pressure at 18:20 must have been enormous!

3:05 - Wanna convince someone to ignore any interest in machine work? Get them a Stewart model steam engine kit. The parts are cast so close to the final dims that it is VERY hard to cut under the skin. Or maybe it's a real 'learning experience'; you get to figure out how to use abrasives very quickly.

Lots of light cuts and no deep decent cuts, Abom is rolling around groaning.

@mikaellarsson5549

3 жыл бұрын

Abom?! Is that the one that was begging for money to buy food to his wedding?

11:45 do you have to worry about the reamer rotating a bit here?

is that ductile or gray iron?

It would have been nice if he had talked about why he changed the insert. I saw the sparks, but cm'on, man.

Wouldn't you want to put a small chamfer on the edges by the tree pan recess?

_I wonder if a soak in your HotShot, followed by a soak in rust-remover would have saved a few inserts._

@chestervaldes7551

3 жыл бұрын

I don't think it's the rust or normal hardening, I think it's from carbide particle that form in cast iron surfaces anytime there's high heat and/or pressure, like in brake rotors.

Why not use a good HSS cutter to get through the casting scale?

I was surprised when you did not use any oil on the drill bit when drilling the 1 inch hole. But you did oil the tool to cut the key way. So I’m curious as to why no oil on the drill bit.

@robertoswalt319

3 жыл бұрын

Cast iron is self lubricating due to the high graphite content so oil is not needed. Oiling the broach helps the broach slide through the steel sleeve easier.

@billmorris2613

3 жыл бұрын

Robert Oswalt Thanks. I would have never thought that any type of metal could be self lubricating.

Keith... Does that machine have any other spindle speeds? Looks like your running the thing at same speed on every cut... Nice project thanks for sharing.

When do you plan on returning to the Stoker Engine project?

@ceevenson

3 жыл бұрын

He probably got fired.

Why all the trouble to get that casting made instead of just turning a chunk of CI? Is it just hard to find cast iron bar stock that large? If so, can windyhill foundry just pour round bar stock to have on hand? Thanks

What causes it to cut on the return stroke?

@tomp5377

3 жыл бұрын

I'm thinking spring? Not sure what caused it to spring back tho, so I agree- I have your question too

Thanks Kieth, happy you're back on the planer, looking forward to. Seeing it earning its keep. In the shop, do you think it's sand from the casting process that's embedded in the cast that blunts the inserts,

When you first indicated on the arbor, its surface may have been centered, but the center hole of the shaft, towards the tail stock, was obviously NOT running true. Shouldn't you have centered the arbor with the tail stock on center to begin with ? That misalignment seems like it would put wear on your live center, if nothing else, too.

Just a suggestion slow down your rpms and take a deeper cut

I think you need to go back to using Cattail Foundry.

Did you know preachers are machinists? They are always saying "Where art thou" or maybe machinists are preachers looking for Thou. Noticed that your live center hole was not running concentric in the video of your first dial in on the arbor you were using.

Are you making a copy of an old cast iron gear or a firing pin for a nuclear weapon? I need three more thou....

My OCD is very unhappy with that rusty recessed area on the blank :)

Just wondering if it is possible to make casting with teeth already in the pattern? Oversized and properly shaped and 3d prinred.

@eliduttman315

3 жыл бұрын

Pattern draft nightmare?

@aleksandarvasilevski7410

3 жыл бұрын

@@jnimitzch4738 I own 3d printer that i made myself. Yes work is needed to make smooth finish but not teribly dificult. I tryuing to understand if there is problem when iron puring or some other part of the process.

5

GREAT JOB, GREAT VIDEO... { LET'S GO TO WORK }

Why not just start with round chunk of clean cast iron if you are going to machine almost all of it anyways?