A note from AJ Deus as regards the Sayyidah Zaynab mosque. It was not meant to be included and is there in error. His paper has immediately been corrected. "That mosque was not supposed to be in the Iranian database, was not in the set that I sent to you, and is also not displayed in the map with the mosques pointing to Iraq. I thought I had picked one in Iran from the north of Baghdad and did not triple check it." AJ Deus

@roukayajannah5111

5 ай бұрын

I knew it was an error! Yes there are many Sayyidah Zaynab Mosques in Iran, in Sinjar Iraq, Damascus Syria. On the list, it’s written Sinjar. But you showed the one in Damacus. Now what is the qibla of that mosque? lol

@ASHORSHEMAYA

5 ай бұрын

@@roukayajannah5111 First of all, there is no comprehensive and accurate information about the year of construction of Sayyidah Zaynab Mosque, Damascu, and there is also no agreement about the place of her burial. Rather, there are different opinions about whether the grave is that of Zaynab bint Ali or that the grave belongs to another Zaynab. The oldest known historical evidence about the construction of this mosque is in the year 500 AH, so it is not worth researching for us. so it's LOL as well

@chrishoff402

3 ай бұрын

Now we just need to persuade the descendants of the Jewish Exilarchs and the Iranian Mullahs to have DNA tests, then compare results and see how closely related they are.

Don Quixote: If the dogs bark, it's because we're moving forward

meanwhile in holy book of islam, Narrated `Abdullah: The Prophet (ﷺ) went out to answer the call of nature and asked me to bring three stones. I found two stones and searched for the third but could not find it. So took a dried piece of dung and brought it to him. He took the two stones and threw away the dung and said, "This is a filthy thing." حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو نُعَيْمٍ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا زُهَيْرٌ، عَنْ أَبِي إِسْحَاقَ، قَالَ لَيْسَ أَبُو عُبَيْدَةَ ذَكَرَهُ وَلَكِنْ عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنُ الأَسْوَدِ عَنْ أَبِيهِ، أَنَّهُ سَمِعَ عَبْدَ اللَّهِ، يَقُولُ أَتَى النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم الْغَائِطَ، فَأَمَرَنِي أَنْ آتِيَهُ بِثَلاَثَةِ أَحْجَارٍ، فَوَجَدْتُ حَجَرَيْنِ، وَالْتَمَسْتُ الثَّالِثَ فَلَمْ أَجِدْهُ، فَأَخَذْتُ رَوْثَةً، فَأَتَيْتُهُ بِهَا، فَأَخَذَ الْحَجَرَيْنِ وَأَلْقَى الرَّوْثَةَ وَقَالَ ‏ "‏ هَذَا رِكْسٌ ‏"‏‏.‏ وَقَالَ إِبْرَاهِيمُ بْنُ يُوسُفَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنْ أَبِي إِسْحَاقَ حَدَّثَنِي عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ‏.‏ Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 156 In-book reference : Book 4, Hadith 22 USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 1, Book 4, Hadith 158 who gave these informations to donkey mu ham mad? al lah, satan or jibril? al lah said these is my seal of profit. WOW what a hahalala religiom!!!!

@williamgarayua5878

5 ай бұрын

In 21st century we struggle to figure out a halal toilet out of three stones; 🤔💭 🚽 We need an ilustration representing the 2 stones, the dung stone, the pooper and an arrow specificly pointing at the dung to avoid the kind of confution that also happens with the qiblas: Ex: 🪨💩🪨 🤺⬅️ Last Pooper

These people don't even bother to check the fact themselves they speak only for the sake of argument and do not exert themselves to research. What one of their sheikhs tells them is enough to turn it into a reality in which they live., OMG, they are so noisy,

@QueenQaffir

5 ай бұрын

Isn’t that hilarious. A Muslim accusing ANYONE of not fact checking their info. Says the guy who really thinks ibn fibbin is any kind of sheikh w a “masters in Hadiths” 😂 and believes zakir naik is real medikle doktur 😂. When they’re not full of excuses, they’re full of hypocrisy and accusations.

@mysotiras21

5 ай бұрын

Islam is allergic to facts, because facts don't support Islam.

@ASHORSHEMAYA

5 ай бұрын

@@QueenQaffir What I love about Mel and D Jay's videos others like them... is they are presenting historical facts, and here there is no room for opinion. Either the historical fact they share is right or wrong, and at best it may be correct to some extent. Here there is no discussion and opinions. But the matter cannot pass that easily for a Muslim, because Any nonsense should be brought to the table over and over,, it's unbearably annoying.

@QueenQaffir

5 ай бұрын

@@ASHORSHEMAYA I’m still waiting for an Abdul to fact check ibn fibbins police report.

If he is right,it points to the outskirts of Sana'a!.

Regarding Jameh Atigh Mosque Mel did you check where the southern wall line would be facing? I am not that good with this but from the angle it almost looks in my attempts that it is going towards Sana'a which offers an interesting alternative, but yes it definitely does not point to Mecca

Muslims, make your homework

HUMBLENESS is a Blessing😇 😡👎It is easy for anyone to rush into offending others while being completly WRONG; Oops! That is worst than just being LAZY; STUBBORNESS! But at least they can start to investigate things by themselfs to CONFRONT their own Deceptive Teachers that were trained by The Best of All Deceivers. 👋🤥🐪 ⬅️↙️

Is diagonal pointing also a possibility? Have you checked for alignments of diagonal lines?

@IslamicOrigins

5 ай бұрын

But it is not a corner to corner diagonal, so no. It also breaks with the pattern found with wall alignments. So I don't consider this a possibility. Still open to evidence to the contrary.

Yes this is something we should be pedantic about.

@IslamicOrigins

5 ай бұрын

Yes, actually we should be, in any case, Deus was made aware of this error and his note is above. He immediately corrected the paper, ie he has removed it from the Iranian qiblas.

Hi mel, All these reserch to counter against or in favour of dan Gibson

@IslamicOrigins

5 ай бұрын

Ultimately, this is based on a fundamentally different understanding of how Islam began, only in some cases is it directly comparable to Gibson's conclusions. Either way - and I don't emphasise this ever enough - we owe him a debt for changing the conversation enough to break from the SIN.

Muslims experts when they factcheck very old mosques they check also cemeteries in the same area how tombs are oriented if it could give confirmation of the qibla or indicate some changes. So checking mosques imply checking tombs. Jameh Atigh mosque in Shiraz was built in 281 AH/ 893 by the ruler Amr Leith Saffari. His brother Yaqub Leith Saffari founder of the Saffarid dynasty died in 879 in Gundeshapur, Iran. He was buried around the same time of Jamah Atigh mosque’s construction. His tomb today like the Jameh Atigh mosque is oriented towards Makkah. How to explain that? They switched all tomb orientations too?

Are you Irish?

@IslamicOrigins

5 ай бұрын

Yes.

Roukaya can be female.

@IslamicOrigins

5 ай бұрын

Ah interesting because we suspected that Alonzo Harris is female.

@cascarrabias397

5 ай бұрын

@@IslamicOrigins Or both at the same time.

@ILoveMaths07

5 ай бұрын

It is a girl's name.

@morghe321

5 ай бұрын

Ok, I read her previous comments. At least it's not a troll, just someone who disagrees with Mel.

WHO CARES! Mecca didnt exist that is all that matters, it didnt exist for centuries and yet its supposed to be the most important city in all of human history durrr hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

For Jameh Atigh mosque in Shiraz, the problem is the qibla wall you choiced or A.J. Deus choice. He took the wall side of Bagdad as the qibla wall without investigate the mosque. A mosque has about 4 walls or 4 sides, you picked the wrong one. On google map you can enter in Jameh Atigh mosque and see where is the qibla wall. Only the South wall is pointing Makkah even if it is not directly on the spot considering that at the time they had difficulties to determinate the accurate qibla Makkah. Jameh Atigh mosque is part of a big complex of about 4 mosques built side by side. So the wall you are pointing is a wall who give access to another mosque through a passage. All 4 mosques are facing Makkah qibla side where muslims of Shiraz pray … never on Bagdad side.

@thundermaggie182

5 ай бұрын

No one is disputing that Muslims today use the wall that (loosely) faces today's Mecca as their Qiblah wall. The argument is that they originally would have used the wall that (accurately) faces Baghdad as their Qiblah wall, and only much later shifted their direction of prayer towards the Mecca wall. Regarding the other mosques side-by-side -- when were these built? If later than the original mosque, then these might have been built after the Qiblah had already shifted to today's Mecca.

@asifbrettishmaelmakki9

5 ай бұрын

Hi.i don't speak Arabic.A utuber called Joseph at Qur'an Centric does. On the Qur'ans quote of Shatral masjidil haraam, he describes it as,having a bar of chocolate/mars bar etc and breaking it in half,and taking the best part.That Joseph suggested that wherever Muhammad went,he was that best part eg Muhammad was the best part of the Qibla himself.

@roukayajannah5111

5 ай бұрын

@@thundermaggie182 So when the shift occurred? Much later? When? I can only say that it is said that the Jameh Atigh mosque is the oldest mosque of Shiraz

@roukayajannah5111

5 ай бұрын

@@thundermaggie182 Muslims experts when they factcheck very old mosques they check also cemeteries in the same area how tombs are oriented if it could give confirmation of the qibla or indicate some changes. So checking mosques imply checking tombs. Jameh Atigh mosque in Shiraz was built in 281 AH/ 893 by the ruler Amr Leith Saffari. His brother Yaqub Leith Saffari founder of the Saffarid dynasty died in 879 in Gundeshapur, Iran. He was buried around the same time of Jamah Atigh mosque’s construction. His tomb today like the Jameh Atigh mosque is oriented towards Makkah. How to explain that? They switched all tomb orientations too?

PLEASE MEL READ THIS! AJ Deus is very confusing! I explain … AJ Deus gives 2 Appendix one for Bagdad and one for Narbonne and in each one he listed the Jameh Atigh mosque, YES!. Also he wrote Sirah instead Shiraz, confusing! Also Qibla degree are slightly different. So the Qibla of Jameh Atigh mosque is Narbonne or Bagdad??? Please compare the 2 Appendix! … I copy-past directly from his paper ‘’Iran’s Poisoned Qibla Arrows’’ Appendix A - Iranian Mosque Qiblas to Baghdad -->Jameh Mosque of Atigh, Sirah : Lat: 29.60906666 - Long: 52.54411991 - Qibla: 300.8° Appendix B - Iranian Mosque Qiblas to Narbonne -->Jameh Mosque of Atigh, Sirah : Lat: 29.60906666 - Long: 52.54411991 - Qibla: 303.0° Also as you quote from his paper page 8 (on your video title ‘’Iran’s Poisoned Qibla Arrows’’ time 38:10) ‘’The Jameh Mosque of Atigh in Shiraz is among them. It is a ninth century mosque and supposedly the oldest in Shiraz. It is said to having been built by the Saffarid conqueror of Shiraz, Amroleiss, between 889 AD 894 AD. Its qibla is straight to Narbonne in France. ‘’ - AJ Deus > ... Have you missed it? So the Qibla of Jameh Atigh mosque is Narbonne or Bagdad??? ... I'm sure it's Makkah! : )

@roukayajannah5111

5 ай бұрын

Please factcheck, double-factcheck AJ Deus!!!

@roukayajannah5111

5 ай бұрын

Please Mel open my first message to read all

@IslamicOrigins

5 ай бұрын

You were shown that it definitely doesn't point to Mecca yet you hang onto that idea despite me showing it. But now you want me to take these points seriously but you don't want to take direct evidence on Mecca seriously. Of course, I will investigate as there are different walls at that mosque. The Sirah-Shiraz is a typo, little things like that are not important, the big picture is what matters.

@IslamicOrigins

5 ай бұрын

I just checked. Yes, the compound wall points to Narbonne, while the mosque wall points to Baghdad. And just to repeat no wall points towards Mecca. Are you getting it yet?

@roukayajannah5111

5 ай бұрын

@@IslamicOrigins I know that for you it doesn’t face Makkah because the line doesn’t reach Makkah directly on the spot. At earlier time, it was not required to be right on the spot, it could be approximative in a big range. Like the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem, they didn't calculate anything, they just built the mosque choosing the wall of the Temple mount facing more the Qibla in Makkah, the South wall. Today, even we have sophisticated tool Al-Aqsa Mosque will stand as it is as the Jameh Atigh mosque. What matters is which qibla you intend to point. Really it surprises me that some non-muslims are more affected by Qibla-obsession-right-on-the-spot than a muslim. Ok I saw you reply to me in another video. So I will look at it, read replies et reply!