As an Arabic native speaker, I wouldn't translate "Abd" to "Slave", it does have this meaning but not in this context, I would instead translate it to "worshiper" or "devoted-to" these two are also meanings of "Abd" and they present it more accurately in the context of names.

@xXMACEMANXx

10 ай бұрын

Perhaps "servant" would be a more appropriate translation, as 'abu being related to traditional chattel slavery might carry negative connotations It makes more sense for one to be a "servant' of Allah rather than a "slave" of Allah

@saq78642

10 ай бұрын

​@@xXMACEMANXxEveryone is a Slave to Allah and not a servant. And its very important to give this discution one is not serving when one is renting or not in a serving state however Slave means the state is absolute. You are owned ny God regardless if you serve his cause or not this is always why Abd is Slave and NOT servant.

@snakejuce

10 ай бұрын

Abd would best translate as "servant."

@Miragephan

10 ай бұрын

Is the context of Abd -> Slave translation more in line with being a follower/child of Allah, similar to how Christians refer to themselves as servants of God/Jesus and not referring to being a menial indentured slave itself? I'm not very familiar with Arabic, but it makes me wonder with Egyptian Arabic especially how literal the intention behind "slave" is. A slave and a servant (to me) have similar contextual roles as subordinate to whomever they call master, whether that be by imprisoned force or eager to worship. Only difference is the willingness of participation obviously.

@saq78642

10 ай бұрын

Sorry guys İ meant everyone is a Slave to Allah not a servant. Because you are owned ny God even the names of the Angela and the suffix "il" as in Jibril etc. Means OWNED by God. A servant can be not serving but a Slave is never not a Slave. None can escape Allah and so its very important to say Slave. Not servant.

Just a note, Kunya didn't necessarily refer to your child. "Abu" could also be used to mean "Carer of" or "The one associated with". For example, one of the most famous Sahabah, "Abu Hurayra" didn't actually have a son called Hurayra (which means kitten). Rather, he was named that because of his love for cats. Additionally, some people were given names like "Abu al-Futuh", which would literally mean "Father of the triumphs" but it just means that person was associated a lot with victories etc. Although I'm not sure whether that would be considered a Kunya or a Laqab

@mitab1

10 ай бұрын

It's more of a laqab, being named after something associated with, it the basics of a nickname aka laqab

@Trippzii

10 ай бұрын

Correct. In modern Arabic, you would hear people referred to as "Abu ras (head)" sarcastically indicating that the person has a unique head shape/ features.

@abdullahshahj7194

10 ай бұрын

also you could get your kunya the moment you are born if your father decides, the kunya can be based on famous individuals, meaning if you were named Ibrahim (Abraham) your kunya would be Abu Ishaq (father of Isaac) , or if your name is Ali your kunya would be Abu-L Hassan, because Ali ibn Abi Talib had the kunya Abu-L hassan because his first son was named Al-Hassan, so your kunya can be based on your actual son or it can be based on your name being the same as someone famous and honorable so you take their kunya, or it can be based on what you are associated with as you have shown

@snakejuce

10 ай бұрын

Well "Futuh" is literally "Openings" so "Father of the openings," though colloquially understood as "triumphs" or "victories" as well as "rejuvenation." Though I think it is more befitting to define it in English as "Auspicious Opening(s)" as that is what it most closely translates to. Thanks though for elaborating for those who may not be privy to it 🙏

@OmnipotentPotato

10 ай бұрын

@@snakejuce yeah. I think also there's some sort of pattern for it. Like, it's common for people with names like "Majed" (Glorious) to be called something like "Abu al-Majd" (Father of Glory) or "Abu al-Mujud" (Father of Glories). Is that considered a kunya?

Fun fact: al-kunya is still somewhat used in Spanish and Portuguese (transliterated as alcuña or alcunha, respectively) to refer to someone's nickname.

@marianavaz2425

6 ай бұрын

I'm portuguese and an "alcunha" is just a nickname it's not part of the name. Some kings had a nickname for wich they were know but we call it a "cognome" andd that's not part of the birth name either.

@anunluckyguy7586

6 ай бұрын

he said exactly that.

@marianavaz2425

6 ай бұрын

@@anunluckyguy7586 ​​⁠yeah I misread. Just now realized

@twotimesjack

6 ай бұрын

Adding to this, in Portugal we tend to use just the word "Cunha" when we talk about cases of nepotism in day-to-day life (but its not restricted to family relations). "You only got that job because your father/uncle/mother is so and so" That would be the example of a "Cunha", using the influence of someone you are related to (or someone you just know) to get an unfair advantage in any particular situation.

@celestinemachuca2339

5 ай бұрын

As a Spanish speaker, I have never heard of alcuña but I have heard “alcurnia” to refer to someone lineage.

As an Egyptian who moved to America a decade ago, I had a serious problem when asked what my last name was. To say I was confused, would be an understatemnt. I just showed them my passport, which had my name, my father's, my grandfather's, my great-grandfather's Kunya and then his own name, then another ancestor before finally settling on the very last name and the immigration office just decided "Okay, since this is the last name in the passport, it's gonna be your last name now." Too bad I didn't put my Laqab in the passport, as that's what I was used to being called with.

@kalmon6745

10 ай бұрын

What's your laqab btw?

@ntluck1592

10 ай бұрын

@@kalmon6745 Al-Hakeem. Most of my ancestors were doctors/physicians, thus the archaic naming for it

@clauvex7829

9 ай бұрын

​@@ntluck1592did you continued the long line of doctors and physicians?

@ntluck1592

8 ай бұрын

@@clauvex7829 Nope, decided to break the wheel so to speak ;p

@acasualviewer5861

5 ай бұрын

Moving to the US from Latin America was confusing. Though less so than your case. I had 2 last names. That of my father and that of my mother. I expected Americans to decipher which to use, but really it was I that had to translate. Later moving to a different part of Latin America I called people by one last name, but found that some people didn't like that because having only one last name to some people meant that they had no father. There's a lot more complexity even in the modern world than we often assume in the West.

"Al-jahiz means the googly-eyed." Nice to see that unfortunate nicknames exist across centuries and continents. This is one of my favorite channels on youtube. Every video is interesting and informative.

@premodernist_history

11 ай бұрын

Thank you!

@Muath-Mahmoud

11 ай бұрын

Where tf did you get this info from ?

@premodernist_history

11 ай бұрын

The verb jahaza (جحظ) means to bulge out or portrude (with regard to eyeballs) or to stare.

@LastBrigadier

11 ай бұрын

Note it isn't actually pronounced with a Z. that is only in Egyptian and it is just a pronunciational mistake (similar to how Brits might pronounce Thought as "Fought" or three as "free") The sound it makes is more like "Al-Jahiv/Al-Jahith" anyway, that guy though was a huge nerd, all he did was write books all day and barely went outside, basically the first incel of Baghdad, he also seemed to have been obsessed with Turks, having written a book solely dedicated to their virtues named: "Fadhaeyilu Al-Atrak" (Virtues of the Turks) He also made a funny poem when a bedouin criticized him for writing books and being a huge nerd, he said in his poem: "The book is the friend that does not lie, that does not backbite, that does not disappoint, and from whom you can never grow bored" and other nonsense.

@GODDAMNLETMEJOIN

11 ай бұрын

If he was a satirist maybe it was metaphorical? It could have been implying something like "he who gives a funny look at things he's satirizing"?

1) This isn't exactly related but I find that I'm not a big fan of fantasy but love Tolkien. I think he invokes a strangeness (and therefore some sort of implied authenticity) with his world building probably due to his academic training in historical linguistics which encompasses naming conventions. 2) Completely unrelated, I wanted to mention I LOVE that you don't have ANY music whatsoever, no intro, no background, no outro. It's a breath of fresh air and utterly unique to KZread content. Don't change that.

@premodernist_history

11 ай бұрын

Thanks! I agree about Tolkien. All that research he did into ancient languages and literatures gave him a deep well to draw on.

@noneofyourbusiness4133

11 ай бұрын

Esoterica does something similar

@snakejuce

10 ай бұрын

@@noneofyourbusiness4133 Is that a good book? Or is it an abridged volume of books? What is it about and would you recommend it? I read the Eragon series a while ago... that was my first opening into SciFi and I fell in love.

@MobiusCoin

10 ай бұрын

@@snakejuce Esoterica is a youtube channel about Abrahamic religion, the occult, mythology, gnosticism, and a grab bag of other spooky stuff. It's great. Recommend.

@snakejuce

10 ай бұрын

@@MobiusCoin Ah okay, thank you very much for answering 🙏

The naming format was a good way of identifying who you are. I'm Joe, Joe who ? Joe ibn Murphy ibn Russell al-Yorky = Joe son of Murphy son of Russell from York. It also preserves lineage. Most people nowadays their grandpa's name.

@bilalitani803

10 ай бұрын

Hahahhahahahhahaha I love this so much hahahaha

@anaselassal3322

10 ай бұрын

"Joe ibn Murphy ibn Russell al-Yorky" HAHA that is so funny and not fitting.. I laughed for a straight minute thanks for that!

@revolvency

10 ай бұрын

Abu Hunter Joe Ibn Murphy Ibn Russel Al-Yorky Al-Biden (Biden is somehow Nisba too I guess?)

@Al-Hussainy

10 ай бұрын

A typical Arab like me knows at least 8 generations of lineage

@Al-Hussainy

10 ай бұрын

Actually i gotta say that your name is despite funny so damn accurate yes that's how it would have been done😂 congrats you can now present yourself to arabs from meddieval ages all the way back to god knows how long

When it comes to names Abd "عبد"is used as worshiper rather than slave because it refers to ibadah "عبادة" which is the act of worship rather than isti’ibad "استعباد" which means enslaving.

@sari-eljarrah

10 ай бұрын

احسنت يا عمر ... هذا انسان جاهل و يحاول ان يظهر بشكل مستعرب ..... هو ضائع و لا يفهم ما يقول !!!!

@mohammedalahmed3133

10 ай бұрын

إن كل من في السماوات والأرض إلا آتي الرحمن عبدا (مريم 93) لو كان المعنى المقصود هو العبادة بدل العبودية لما انطبقت هذه الآية على الملحدين أو من عبد غير الله. وأظن والله أعلم أنه لو أُريد معنى العبادة بدل العبودية لاستعملت كلمة عابد بدل عبد... وفي القرآن استعملت الكلمتان "عباد" و"عبيد" في عدة آيات ولدقة القرآن الكريم أستبعد أن يتطابق معنى الكلمتين. فأظن أن صاحب المقطع لم يخطأ في ترجمته والله أعلم ولا ذل في أن نكون عبيدا لله عزوجل فهو العزيز الجبار المتكبر

@Shibis

10 ай бұрын

سليڤ اوف قاد 😂 صدمني و ترا تفسيره صح

@DripApe

10 ай бұрын

مو غلطان تراه

@ranro7371

10 ай бұрын

Being a native speaker means nothing. It means slave. يُقال: عَبْدٌ؛ وأعْبُدٌ وعَبِيْدٌ وعِبَاد وعِبِدّى وعِبْدَان وعُبْدَان ومَعْبُودَاءُ ومَعْبَدَةٌ وعُبد ومَعَابدُ. فإِذا قُلتَ للحُر: عَبْدَ الله فحينئذٍ يجْمَع على عَبدوْنَ وعِبَادٍ . وهو بَين العُبُوْدَةِ والعُبودِية. وعَبّدَه وأعْبدَه: جَعَله عَبْداً. وأَعَبده: صَيرَه كالعَبْد. واسْتَعْبَده واعْتَبَدَه وأعْبَده : اتخَذَه عَبْداً. وعَبَدْتً اللهَ عِبَادةً. والمُتَعَبدُ: المُتَفَرد بالعِبَادة. وأعْبده فلاناً: مَلكَه إيّاه. وعَبدَةً: اسْمٌ . وقيل: عَبْدَةُ أيضا؛ كأنه تأنيثُ عَبْد. والمُعَبدُ: البَعيرُ الذي فَي شَعرُه من الجَرَب، والعَبَدُ : الجَرَبُ الذي لا ينفعهُ دواء . والمُذَلَّلُ بالعَمَل أيضاً. وكذلك الطَريقُ إذا قلً حَصَاه أو وطِيءَ بالأرجُل: مُعَبدٌ . وُيسَمّى الوَتدُ: المُعَبَّدَ أيضاً. والمُعَبَّدُ: المُغْتَلِمُ من الفُحول. وتَعبدْتُه: طَرَدْتَه حتى أعْيا. وعَبدْتُ البَعيرَ: أهْمَلْتَه. وعَبًدَ الرًجُلُ وغيرُه: ذَهَبَ شارِداً. وأسْرَعَ أيضاً. وما عَبَّدَ أنْ فَعَلَ كذا: أي ما أبْطَأ. وعَبِد عَبَداً: جَرِبَ. وعَبِدْتُكَ: أنْكَرْتُكَ، ومنه قَوْلُ الله تعالى: " فَأنا أوَّلُ العابِدين " . وقيل أيضاً: الآنِفِيْن. وقد عَبِدَ عَبَداً: أنِف. والعَبِدُ: الحَرِيْص. وعَبِد عليه: غَضِبَ. فَأما قَوله: مَكَان عُبَيْدَانِ المُحَلا باقِرُهْ فقيل: عُبَيْدانُ: رَجُلٌ؛ والباقِرُ: البَقَرُ. وقيل: عُبَيْدان: سُهَيْلٌ؛ والباقِر: بَنَات نَعْشً ومَرَّ راكِباً عَبَادِيْدَ: أي مِذْرَويه. وذهبُوا عَبَادِيْدَ وعَبَابِيد: أي مُتَفرقين، قال الخَليلُ : ولا يُوَحدُ، وحَكى الخارْزَنْجِي: عِبْدِيْدَ. وتَعَبْددُوا : تَفَرقُوا. والأطْرافُ البَعيدةُ تسَمى: عَبَابِيْدَ. واعْبِدَ به. أنْقُطِع. والعُبَيدَةُ: الفَحِثُ. و " وَقَعَ في أم عُبَيْدٍ تَصَايَحُ حَياتُها " : تقال عند التشَاؤُم. وأم عُبَيْدٍ : قيل: هي الخالِيَةُ من الأرض، وقيل: أرْضٌ أخْطَأها المَطَرُ. وفي مَثَل: " نامَ نَوْمَةَ عَبُّوْدٍ " وهو رَجُلٌ تَمَاوَتَ على أهْلِهِ وقال: انْدُبوني كيف تَفْعَلُون؛ فماتَ على تلك الحالة. والمِعْبَدَةُ : المِسْحَاة، والجَميعُ المَعَابِد. وا لعَبَدَةُ : الكِدْنَةُ. والقُوَةُ. والبَقاء. This dictionary was made. e800 years before the first colloquial European language had a dictionary (english, oxford dictionary). Arabic is an axiomatic language, meaning its words are not constructed arbitrarily, but are drawn from first principles. It is the Only language of this sort, and it is the Only language which has had a continuity without alteration for a millennium and a half. No other modern language speaker is able to read texts from over a millennium ago, much less 1500 years without specialized training. Biblicalhebrew was dead by the time of Jesus; Isa, peace be upon him. Modern-hbrew is a reconstructed language from the 19th century with its base being primarily Arabic. Arabic dictionaries were what was used to decode the Near Eastern scripts as well. There is no word such as worship in Arabic because it is an arbitrary abstraction that has no meaning; what it is to worship other than to be a slave, to call that which you are worshipping your master

Very good video, but just to add/contextualize a few things: 1) The naming convention is not really 4+1 but 3+2, the Kunya was also not required. People of note (i.e. the kind of people listed in Biographical Dictionaries) would almost always have one (or be ascribed one later), but among general people it was more common to not have one unless you were a relatively influential person. 2) The Kunya did not necessarily refer to one's child, it was often times idiomatic or invented. For instance Abu Bakr did not have a child named Bakr nor did Salah al-Din have a child named al-muzzafar. 3) The Nisbah was used in a rather complex way and often didn't give direct information about what groups a person was associated with. So for instance a common cause of confusion is that Nisbah's could be inherited as in the case of al-Khwarezmi (who was probably born in Baghdad but his parents were from Khwarezm) or in the case of the 16th century historian Ahmad bin Yusuf al-Qaramani - who's father was from Karaman in Turkey but he was born and lived in Damascus. 4) 9:45 I think the equivalent in english to the Laqab is epithet. Anyways Laqabs were typically associated with specific titles or ranks (Amir, Sultan, Malik, Imam, Shaykh etc..), so each rank had its own associated laqabs that one could adopt (If you read Arabic you can look at al-Qalqashandi's massive scribal manual Subh al-A'asha which has entire volumes dedicated to listing out these titles). Also from the 10th century onwards (until the end of the Abbasid Caliphate) it was common for the Caliph to bestow rulers he recognized as Sultans with a Laqab. This is where Salah al-Din gets his titular Laqab from for instance. 5) One last thing I should mention which I always found interesting is that if someone's nasab was Ibn Abdallah /Ibnat Abdallah, and that person was not an Arab, it typically (but not always) indicated that that person was a convert to Islam and not that said person's father was named Abdallah.

@premodernist_history

11 ай бұрын

Thanks! These are all great points. About #4, I think epithet is technically correct, but nowadays it has a negative connotation. I'll be touching on #5 in a future video.

@ahmedelakrab

11 ай бұрын

Quality comment right here!

@Equin

10 ай бұрын

@@premodernist_history in some muslim countries today orphans whose lineage is unknown will also be given Abdullah as a father name in meaning "Slave/Servant of Allah" and not that his father was actually called Abdullah, even if they were adopted since Islam forbids ascribing orphans to your name

@toomanymarys7355

10 ай бұрын

Plus sometimes people have an ism that has the form of a laqab, just like they have a functional laqab in the form of a kunya sometimes lol. So you literally don't know whether some name is a laqab or an ism sometimes. Not annoying at all!

@toomanymarys7355

10 ай бұрын

​@@EquinIslam forbids adoption to make Mo's peepee happy with his son's wife. Beautiful religion!

Just for reference, we of Chinese descent always have surnames, but they always come before the given name, eg. MAO Tse Tung or XI Jingping (surnames emphasised in capitals). These are commonly single characters but there are also those with two characters (Auyong and Seetoh being the most common). Surnames coming in front of names is common in East Asia, and applies to Korean as well as Japanese names. The commonly used "Shinzo Abe" is really a convention adopted for European media, and he actually tried to promote "Abe Shinzo" some years back, though without success. What's probably more interesting is that surnames coming before names was actually common in Italy as well, and it's still used in very formal situations (eg. the military) so we would see something like "Armani Giorgio" written in an official document. And the use of nicknames/titles are also commonly used there today as well, especially in casual situations where surnames may not be known, or to distinguish a person from another with the same name. An example would be "Leonardo da Vinci", which is literally "Leonardo from the town of Vinci". We still hear this convention used today, eg. "Monica di Padova" (from Padua) or even "Gianni della bicicletta" (because he is always seen riding his bicycle). The use of such nicknames may even become formalised into actual surnames over generations, such as "Rossi" (ginger-haired), "Lombardo" (from Lombardy), and Esposito ("exposed", referring originally to orphans left by anonymous unwed mothers at the door of monasteries, and therefore "exposed" to the protection of the Madonna), as are surnames derived from the trade of an ancestor - Ferrari (iron worker), Pastore (shepherd) or Cazzador (hunter in Venetian dialect) - as is common in other European and possibly many other cultures.

@zeytelaloi

9 ай бұрын

Interestingly Hungarians put their surnames before given names. BTW as you are Chinese you should add the tradition of courtesy names: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtesy_name to your comment. Another example of a type of naming convention that does not conform to the standard Western type at all. Also the significance of Chinese "clans" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_kin

@huangec

9 ай бұрын

@@zeytelaloi we don't actually practise that anymore, certainly not in SE Asia as far as I can tell. No one in either side of my family has a "courtesy name", nor anyone I know of Chinese descent. Nicknames perhaps, but not formal "courtesy names".

@taysondynastyemperor5124

9 ай бұрын

And also courtesy names, which although not really used anymore, there really isn’t an equivalent of in the west.

@GreatistheWorld

6 ай бұрын

F1 successfully moved early on from saying Guanyu Zhou to the correct Zhou Guanyu. So progress has been made

@ronaldritchey4284

6 ай бұрын

Thanks to Chinese Esperantists the convention of putting your familial name in all caps has eased Esperantic communication.

I am glad to say that most of these names still exist today in arabic culture the Ism and Nasab are the standardized official name recognized by states but the kunya is still very prevalent like you will still meet people that are known mainly by their kunya like Abu Maryam or Umm Khalid. Nisbas and Laqabs are rarer these days but they still do exist. Another thing you might have missed is that arab women dont take their husbands last name because it doesnt exist lol or his tribe's name so tracing back their lineage is also easier

@Saladid

10 ай бұрын

It's the other way round, usually someones nisbah is his surname and his nasab isn't used as much.

@HammadKhan-tl6bb

10 ай бұрын

Hey can someone tell me what al-ghazzali means, in the video the gentlemen said that he wouldn't prefer to say it on air, so I am wondering what it actually 😅😅

@Saladid

10 ай бұрын

@@HammadKhan-tl6bb it means what he said (weaver) But it comes from a similar root to the word for romance poems (ghazal) where a man describes the beauty and good traits of a woman. And if he was looking in the dictionary the romance root would come up before the weaver so it makes sense

@user-vj4hq2ij3o

10 ай бұрын

@@HammadKhan-tl6bb I think he came across (ghazza) which is starting a war

@Al-Hussainy

10 ай бұрын

@@HammadKhan-tl6bb as the gentleman before me said it actually means from the city of ghazāl but in the dictionary he must have founf ghazal instead with a short a, ghazal is like flirting or a type of poems used to compliment women either in a restpectful or literal way

Mashallah, this professor knows a lot and his pronounciation is on point.

This is pretty interesting! It reminds me of how in Iceland there still are also no family names with "last names" almost always being the father's first name plus son or daughter in Icelandic to denote relations. Like Jon would have a son called Thorkell whose full name would be Thorkell Jonsson. This can cause issues when traveling abroad however because every member of the family could have a different surname and since there is an expectation for last names to be what defines family proving relationships can be more difficult.

@premodernist_history

11 ай бұрын

It's cool that Iceland has held onto its customary naming system, despite the inconveniences when traveling abroad. Scandinavians used to do what Icelanders do but they abandoned the practice and assimilated.

@Lawarch

11 ай бұрын

@@premodernist_history Feel like a lot of the first name last stuff came about with the formation of nation states and the need to keep records for the bureaucracy. Like in Turkey with Ataturk's modernization movement that mandated the adoption of surnames at the same time as the Turkish alphabet was changed from Arabic to Latin characters

@James-vw9yy

11 ай бұрын

@@premodernist_history I may be mistaken, but weren't there folk in northern Sweden who kept their traditional naming conventions up until the mid 19th century? If you ask a random bystander on the street something like: "What do you think we take for granted in today's world?" Many if not all would say things like: "phones, internet, plumbing, electricity, etc." I doubt many would say something like: "modern naming conventions." It is fairly recent for generations to keep the same last name, even including the common sight in the United States where names are anglicized or spelt differently over time.

@genovayork2468

11 ай бұрын

​​@@James-vw9yyhey are not modern. They have been in western society for a very long time. The Romans and Greeks had them, the medievals had them.

@James-vw9yy

11 ай бұрын

@@genovayork2468 By "modern naming conventions," I mean a forename, midname, lastname. The Romans did not have that. They had a family name (gens) and a personal name, which while being very similar is still undeniably different. Certainly Romans had a more liberal use of adoption than we do today. I can not speak on how Greeks handled names, as my knowledge does not go that far.

Good to see your video again. Great work as always! I have always been envious of long lines of surnames in the west (particularly America) where you can find your ancestors and relatives just with the surname. I come from Pakistan and my grandparents are from India. I don't know any relatives past my grandparents because there's no way of finding them. Also, I'd like to add (for the audience) that the nasab isn't always as it looks. Here you'd think Ahmad's grandfather's name was Hanbal however, that's not always the case. Sometimes it's just the name of a famous ancestor. Ibn Khaldun who died in 1406 didn't have an ancestor named Khaldun till like the 800s. Many of his ancestors were known as Ibn Khaldun as well so, Ibn Khaldun in that case was kind of like a western surname.

@premodernist_history

11 ай бұрын

Thanks! It's really sad how many people's lives were turned upside down because of the Partition. Yes, that's true about the nasab. Another example is Ibn Taymiyya. I don't know how far back Taymiyya is, but it's a long way.

@Albukhshi

11 ай бұрын

@@premodernist_history Taymiyya was IIRC his grandmother. There's some disagreement over her life's story, but the accounts from people living in his time agree that she was the namesake. She must have been extraordinary, as taqiyyu ud-din wasn't the only one to use this nasab in the family, IIRC.

@zariaalhajmoustafa2573

11 ай бұрын

Reason mediaeval Arabic have the strong focus family lineage they have that family kinship I like the rest of the people or last that tribal family kinship they lasted a long time like Indian or European but the Arab last at recently

@zariaalhajmoustafa2573

11 ай бұрын

When the Arab can collect it Persia and North Africa they they bring back that Focus about family lineage the Arabic nasab have name of the type but if you mediaeval Persian or non-arab I have the name of The city in which he was born like Bukhari

@Nawaf-qk9mu

11 ай бұрын

This is definitely not an issue we have in Arabia, as we have recorded our lineage since the dawn of history. I know which family I'm from, which family it branched off from, which family that branched on from, and so on.

6:45 As a student of Arabic, that whole process of “I don’t recognize that word” and then getting stuck in the weeds for 30 minutes just trying to understand this one word is a very relatable experience lol

@h_ass_an

5 ай бұрын

As a "native" Arabic speaker ( at this point the word native means very little here since almost all arabs today know very little "classical" arabic unless they study it at a high level) I relate to this.

@muayyadalsadi

5 ай бұрын

Alghazali is very common. It's a name of industry. Textile industry الغزل والنسيج. It's not like it's lost latin word.

@noone-re3zp

3 ай бұрын

ghazala means flirting, no? Just trying to figure out why the man in vid said he wasn't gonna say the definition on video. second-guessing myself @@muayyadalsadi

@muayyadalsadi

3 ай бұрын

@@noone-re3zp the past form ghazala means weaved a textile. The one that means flirt is taghazala. Both come from gha za la root not to be confused with stem. a root is not the smallest meaning carrying letters, that's the stem. It's common to have last names of family professions/businesses.

@yiehyazakaria6586

2 ай бұрын

Al-Ghazzali (The man who yarn fibers) or (yarn artist). الغزّالي

As an Arab I can confirm this and I think I have a pretty cool nickname that people around me gave to me , I have many nicknames but the Original one was Ibn Al-Sahra’ ( Son of the Sands ) they gave it to me because I lived in the desert for 8 years since I was 7 until 15 and I was a hunter and a fisherman since it was close to the sea , and I had the best Aim there and I knew everything in the desert even though I was a child , the Elders of that desert was proud to see one of the new generations live a part of their life , and they are even more proud because I became a poet and I make poetry in the Original Arabic ( Fus’ha ) and I’m also proud of myself to be an incarnation of one of my great grandfathers 😂❤

@smileyp4535

10 ай бұрын

Wow that's really cool and you speak and write English amazingly as well! I love the all the cultures of the world because people can be infinitely interesting and unique and being the same while useful sometimes is boring and can enforce negativity and be used for hate rather than love, love is all that matters

@tarekandnourhan7432

10 ай бұрын

You sound like a very interesting person.

@Disected

10 ай бұрын

Where about were you located?

@allthatsheiz

10 ай бұрын

That is a cool name 😎

@Al-Hussainy

10 ай бұрын

انت منين ياخويا ؟

Thanks for the video. Your Arabic pronunciation is impressive, by the way! Regarding Al-Ghazali's name, here's a translated text from Wikipedia: "Abu Hamid Muhammad ibn Muhammad ibn Muhammad ibn Ahmad al-Ghazali al-Tusi al-Nisaburi, known as Abu Hamid, had a son who died at a young age. He is also known as 'al-Ghazzali' in reference to the wool spinning craft, as his father worked in that industry. He is also attributed to 'al-Ghazali' in reference to the town of Ghazala in the villages of Tus. He said about himself: 'People call me al-Ghazzali, but I am not al-Ghazzali. I am attributed to a village called Ghazala.' Ibn Khallikan stated that his attribution to 'al-Ghazzali' (with a stressed z) is the famous one, and it is more correct than his attribution to 'al-Ghazali.' This is confirmed by what the traveler Yakut al-Hamawi narrated, that he had not heard of the town of Ghazala in Tus." Also, "ghazala" means a female deer or a hind.

@afeefazaman4373

10 ай бұрын

ويُعرَف بـ “الغزّالي” نسبة إلى صناعة الغزل،[9] حيث كان أبوه يعمل في تلك الصناعة، ويُنسب أيضاً إلى “الغَزَالي” نسبة إلى بلدة غزالة من قرى طوس، وقد قال عن نفسه: «النّاس يقولون لي الغزّالي، ولستُ الغزّالي، وإنّما أنا الغَزَالي منسوبٌ إلى قرية يُقال لها غزالة».[10]، وقد قال ابن خلكان أن نسبته إلى “الغزّالي” (بتشديد الزاي) هو المشهور، وهو أصحّ من نسبته إلى “الغَزَالي”،[11]

@emaanhaseem1237

2 ай бұрын

could Ghazzali be referring to Gaza? Where medical Gauze was woven and originated from?

From my personal experience, the randomness you mention in what people 'decide' to call a person often comes from an individual needing a unique name to stand out within their social circle. For example, an extended family with several men named Ahmad will resort to referring to younger Ahmad's as 'Ibn Xyz...' or give and take from any of the 5 parts of a name. Or as you mentioned, a new father/mother could adopt a unique name after their first child is born. Like I said, this is from what I've witnessed personally, so it may not apply to other regions & time periods.

@premodernist_history

11 ай бұрын

Thanks, I suspected that might be the case. Good to get some corroboration.

@midshipman8654

10 ай бұрын

yah, I think this is the general rule broadly between cultures if there isnt a particular formality reason to use a strict naming convention. Using the most relevant descriptor in the situation. Like a Venician Smith in medieval England might be called “John of Venice”, or a blacksmith in a local comunity might be refered to by his liniage, “john son of George”, while a blacksmith in a larger city may be refered to by his occupation, “john the blacksmith”, and a particularly striking aspect may be another “John the Strong” In english we have surnames that seem to be formalized derivatives of all these: Scott, Johnson, Smith, and Armstrong for example.

May I add that in the US at my kids school and related places, I am commonly known as "Joey''s Mom". "Umm Joey".

Even as an Arab this video was really fun and informative for me. A really well-presented video!

As a non-Arab this was very educational. Thank you.

@mkg304

10 ай бұрын

It's honestly mostly wrong

@EzraB123

8 ай бұрын

@@mkg304 Would you mind explaining how?

@gloojaam6756

6 ай бұрын

@@EzraB123 because those names are only for Muslims not for all arabs are ethnic not religion and their is Christian arabs who doesn’t have none of those names nor they use Ibn or Abu or abd And also their is other arabs that are not only Muslims or christian Their are arabs that their religion is Drizzy which they do believe there’s existence of God but they don’t have no religion and they call themselves drizzy and also their are arab existence of Sa’bi religion So those arabs who their religion is Christian or sabi or drizzy they do not have islamic names Because arab cultures and names depends on their religion

@johannesziaether3916

6 ай бұрын

​@@gloojaam6756 I don't know who told you that non Muslim Arabs didn't use Ibn, Abu, and Abd in their names. Even the polytheists of Makkah did that, it's a general scheming in Arabic names

@user-xv5fv7im8s

5 ай бұрын

​@@gloojaam6756 Arab was using abd in their names even before Islam, like Abd Al manaf ( manaf is an idol) and Abd Shams (sun).

Great Video! I would like to add that these names are fortunately still present in the Arabic world. Kunya - aren’t recognized by states but are widely present among Arabs and they are used by most people to refer to someone in a straightforward way. Ism - is recognized by states and governments will refer to you by this name. This is also kind of like your first name not in American first name but in a literal sense as you will be referred to as this name until you grow up and have a child making a kunya or get a Laqab or you’ll still be referred to by your ism for as long as you live. Nasab - is recognized by states and is the series of fathers and heritage and is rarely referred to. Nisba- is recognized by states and is commonly referred to, but some parts became more uncommon than others, nowadays nisba is most of the time referring to your tribe name but the parts that became more uncommon than others are the nisba referring to birthplaces or job occupations although they are more uncommon they are still used and are not that rare. Laqab - isn’t recognized by states. It’s close to a nickname and can refer to many things such as a person’s appearance, trait, and such.

As a Malay, majority of us especially the younger generation use Arab names instead of malay names but some use mixed of both. We also adopt arab way of naming except that we don't have Kunya, Nisba & surname. So, it's just personal name + Bin/binte + father's name. But some malays do have titles in front of their personal depending on their status if they have. But majority follow the basic above.

@Syumza

10 ай бұрын

There are indeed Malay surnames such as Abang(M) / Dayang(F) that come from Brunei and also the more common ones, Syed/Syarif/Wan(M) / Syarifah(F) are surname of decendants of Prophet Muhammad. Other examples are, Raja Tengku, Teuku, Che, Megat, Nik.

@bonemarrow3439

5 ай бұрын

You're malay, and don't use malay names but use arabic names And since younger generations use arabic names, then.. Won't that replace century old malay names. Odd and sad imo

Arabic names are very interesting , mixed with so much pride yet so humble at the same time and the tone of each name is very unique , very great video and excellent knowledge

That was a great video ❤ also your pronunciation is good 👍🏻 I am from Saudi Arabia, and here our official names are made from 4 names 1- Your given name 2- Your father's name 3- Your grandfather's name 4- Your tribe's name But the way people use it in everyday life is different, just like you showed in the video

@premodernist_history

10 ай бұрын

Thanks!

@MGM_Think

10 ай бұрын

What about bastards that don't know their fathers? How are they named?

@Devodex

10 ай бұрын

@@MGM_Think no one cares about bastards.

@a99g

10 ай бұрын

@Mhaaad there is an official committee for that matter. They give a name for these people, and they make sure the name is not frequent or common

@snakejuce

10 ай бұрын

@@MGM_Think "Sameer al Bastardi Ibn Harlot" is usually how we Arabs call these folks.

Not just middle ages, surnames are a VERY recent phenomenon. From as late as the mid 20th century

@12q8

11 ай бұрын

Not that late. It was a bit earlier. Surnames were earned, but after industrialization, people started moving more for work, so they needed surnames to distinguish each other based on what they did or where they came from.

@someone_7233

11 ай бұрын

4 names are required in formal docs here in this part of the world.. Your name, your father's, your grandfathers's, then your nasab (family/tribe name) Some formal docs in my country jordan requieres the mother's name and nasab too In our culture, people still use abu/um (insert eldest son name)... Knowing your lineage is seen as an honorable thing in our culture My father once written down our lineage up to 4 rows of an A4 paper ( Horizontally) Ppl still ask about your 5th or even 7th great grandfather if they want to know your family's historay, its a popular topic to connect with new people or to tell stories about the family's history My grandpa does that alot

@Dragoncam13

10 ай бұрын

Maybe in most of the world but outwest if you didn't have a surname it was either your father's name or grandfather's name

@pawel198812

8 ай бұрын

What country besides the US uses official middle names? Where I'm from 'middle name' isn't even a meaningful legal concept. You can have multiple given names (though parents usually settle for one or two, rarely three) and one surname (which can be composed of two words that are hyphenated)

I love you storytelling manner. It's so natural and fun when you're googling in the middle of your speech. And topics are iinteresting. Thank you for your videos. Hello from Ukraine!

Thank you so much for this. I'm an author who has spent time studying Old Norse, ancient China, and medieval Japan, each with their own amazing naming systems, so this was a joy to learn more about

You should check out the characters and world building in Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind. Your segment at the end immediately reminded me of how alien the dark elves and ashlanders felt. Much later I learned there was a lot of inspration taken from middle eastern cultures.

@premodernist_history

11 ай бұрын

That sounds cool. Thanks for the tip!

I really love the roughly edited conversational tone of this video. It is very clean and professional, but unedited enough to still feel sincere and easy to listen to. Subscribed.

I love the part where you pick up a book and look something up. It's so normal. Thanks for the explanation. I had figured out some of it but it's good to have it laid out by somebody who knows what they're talking about. A lot of the time in the West we get some Latinized version that is even more obscure like Averroes.

I'm a native Arabic speaker, this is a great video, very well researched, good job! btw Ghazzali probably refers to the word Ghazal, or Gazelle in English. It's a very common animal to reference in Arabic names and poetry. Another meaning could be Ghazal, which is to flirt, but the prior meaning is more likely.

@assemabozeed2164

10 ай бұрын

I think Ghazaly was not given to him after the animal but rather after a function or a job he does. So in this case I think it is coming from “Ghazl” which is the infinitive for cotton weaving. So basically either him or someone higher in his lineage was working with textile and weaving.

@MJ-vr5xs

10 ай бұрын

@@assemabozeed2164That's also another possible definition

@tarekzetouneh2267

10 ай бұрын

its from Ghazl = Weaving so Ghazalli means. The Weaver

@mkg304

10 ай бұрын

Most of everything he said is wrong

@mahnas92

10 ай бұрын

I only knew ghazal as the animal before this video, but I don't think that's what it comes from! It's probably from Ghazl, as stated in the video. Fun fact I immediately thought of and connected the dots on: cotton candy in Arabic is called Ghazlat or Ghazlat al-banat, basically translated to cotton (or something a "Ghazl" would make) or (The) Girls' Cotton. Always wondered where that name came from!

As a local from the UAE, I can verify that we still use the same medieval context for our names like for example my name is : Marwan Ibn Humaid Ibn Ahmed Ibn Ibrahim Ibn Eissa (Bani Hammad Al Hammadi) I have put the last four words in brackets for you to be able to identify that this is my nasab and Al Hammadi means the person who praises god often. Also, each citizen must include his full name like the one above when applying for jobs and other government related activities here. However in less necessary documents we shorten it to be like Marwan Humaid AlHammadi. Also this is the way of naming to this day in all gulf countries ( pure Middle-Eastern Arabs ). Note : that I have only watched 10 mins of your video so do not blame me if I missed something but it seemed pretty interesting that you spoke about this matter because I've never honestly paid proper attention to our names since the day I was born it was one of these things that grows up with you the moment you step foot on earth. So thank you for doing this and wish all the best.

@ageofechochambers9469

10 ай бұрын

This guy is wrong so are you , you do have a surname ( al hammadi) its not a "medieval name it's the tribes name or a sub branch of a main tribe . Or the original geographical location of a ancestor or even a laqab . Tammimi, khazraji , quraishi. FYI your not a "local " your a UAE native , most of earth doesn't use "local " to indicate a person is a indigenous to a land .

@rayan5150

10 ай бұрын

Aww did you just dox yourself for people to learn? 🥹

@Cara-39

10 ай бұрын

"Pure Middle Eastern Arabs" are only found in the Gulf region?? That's the sort of racism usually found in 1920s pseudoscientific "racial biology" studies, not so much a seemingly rational comment on naming customs. No one Arab person is any more "pure" than another, regardless of where they live or where they were born.

@jomardrustamli18

10 ай бұрын

@@ageofechochambers9469 Technically, everything in this context can be considered a surname. In Turkic dynasties and tribes, surnames did not exist until paperwork began. The father's occupation or the name of the grandfather would become the surname. For example, in modern Turkish, "Ahmet Oduncu" (Ahmet the Lumberjack) originated from a family where someone worked as a lumberjack when the local government (mostly after the independence movement led by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk) required surnames. In Azerbaijani, we prefer using the surname of the tribe, parental name, or someone well-known in the dynasty. For instance, "Jomard Rustamli" means "Jomard from the Rustams" (which is my grandfather), or "Turan Namigoglu" (Turan the son of Namig) literally means the person is the son of another person. This practice is somewhat similar in Russian, Persian, and other cultures. Before the nationalization of most countries, surnames were not necessary as a second name to identify individuals since most countries were closed, lacking globalization or tools for international communication as we have today. In a single village, it was unlikely to have a name repeated three times. Even if there were three people with the same name, people used unofficial identifying nicknames such as "Jack the Carpenter," "Sparrow Jack," or "Crazy Jack." These names were recognized by the local community based on the person's characteristics and traits. The same logic applied to different countries and societies, including the Turks. For example, in my father's village, even today (despite people already having officially recognized names), there are three individuals named AVAZ: one is my grandpa, one is a doctor, and another is mentally unstable. People simply nickname them "Avaz the Stone" (as he was the director of the Stone firm), "Avaz the doctor," and "Mad Avaz." There are other variations of such annotations as well. Surnames, in the sense of dynastic names, belonged to noble families as a way to show off. They became more common after the Black Death, as the church needed to record all cases, resulting in a higher chance of name repetition. Surnames are used to identify a person's complete address. For example, "Her Majesty the Queen Elizabeth II Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Windsor of the United Kingdom and other Commonwealth" is similar to Arabic naming conventions, signifying that Elizabeth is the second person with this name in the family of the Windsors, who were also the queens of the mentioned lands. The logic behind surnames is similar across cultures, although the usage and formation differ due to the semantics of the respective languages. In the Turkic world, there is a mix of both Western and Eastern influences, as most Turkic countries have an Islamic culture while being interconnected with Western societies. In Azerbaijan, surnames were adopted after the Russian Revolution and compulsory mass education was implemented. People started attending school, and their names, surnames, dates of birth, and so on needed to be recorded. Today, we also have additional elements to names, such as takhallus (pseudonyms), lagab (nicknames), kunye, and nasib, but they are not officially recognized or recorded as part of the given name. For example, there is a well-known satiric poet in my country named Mirza Al Akbar Sabir (in Azeri, it is written as Alakbar). He passed away over a hundred years ago, but his name is still known. However, his official name was Ələkbər Tahirzadə (Alakbar Tahirzadeh) and it is not remembered by most people (some may check it on Wikipedia and remember). Another example is Samad Vurgun, known as a poet, whose full name was Samad Vakilov (Samad of the Vakils' family). The reason behind the additional names may not always be clear or consistent. Finally, what the video maker suggests is that in Western societies, people have been following the name+surname template since the medieval period due to the reasons mentioned above. In contrast, in the medieval Arab world, there were no such limitations or dependence on name+surname. In conclusion, there isn't much difference in the logic of surnames. All surnames originate from various sources related to the ancestor's occupation, title, group (tribe), or simply the name of the dynasty's founder. I hope my explanation helps you understand the basis of the surname issue. So, stop shaming the guy for not telling your truth. If you think you know more than it, please, explain it to us. We will be glad to hear you out.

@revolvency

10 ай бұрын

@@rayan5150 bruh fr, he even include his non cultural name. his documents name 😵

Learning the way these names work really puts me in the shoes of people then. I imagine someone coming into a new city and people are like "you see Erich from Chicago"? And they're like "Erich son of John" and they'd be like "no, no, you're thinking Eric son of Jacob" "oh you mean the googly-eyed?" and then they go on about Eric the Googly-eyed

@AhmedEx1.

3 ай бұрын

hey uh, you do know this naming structer still exists? that scenario you just made isnt actually that uncommon

I took a year of Arabic in college and never fully understood the naming system until now (forty years later). Thank you for your great video! Naturally I subscribed. Any American who can pronounce Arabic like you DESERVES a subscription (and respect!). عيد ميلاد مجيد

This is the video I never realized I needed. I’ve been researching Pre-Islamic and Post-Islamic history in the mid East and I’m always blown away with how long the names can get hehe Thank you so much I just found you and love your videos!!

@Muslim-155

3 ай бұрын

Peace be upon you, I'm Omar. if you want to know Omar who, you're gonna have to take a seat. I am, Omar Abueljebain Al-Matbouli Al-Makki Al-Marwani Al-Umawy Al-Qurashy Al-Adnani. abueljebain is taken from abu-al-jaibain which means father of the two pockets which is a metaphorical reference to being rich and always giving out money. Al-Matbouli also has a meaning which i dont know Al-makki which means from Makkah, or mecca al-Marwani which is a lineage reference to a Marwan from my ancestors Al-Umawy is a reference to Ummayyah, who my tribe Bani Ummayyah (sons of umayyah) Al-Qurashy is a reference to the tribe of Quraysh, in which bani umayyah is a part of it. there are small sectors in each tribe, more like branches. so i am Omar Al-Umawy (the branch) Al-Qurashy (The tribe). later in time, the branch became bigger and it became a tribe of its own, just because of the size. Bani Umayyah is known for its famous islamic people, who also created the Umayyad Dynasty. Us arabs tend to care about our ancestry. I have my name straight from me to ADAM, yes im talking about the adam and eve dude.

So Al ghazzali meaning cotton churner in Persian is actually very interesting. There was a very important and famous Islamic scholar and Hadith specialist named "Al daraqutni" that was his nisba comparable to "Al ghazzali" and Al daraqutni actually means " the house of cotton" because this man's family owned one of the biggest cotton mills in the region if not I'm the world so he was known by the name "Al daraqutni" because of it. So important people in your family or important jobs can also be a nisba But yeah, is Arabs have our names like this. My name would be Omar ibn Mohammed Abdalla Al hummari Al yafai. Mohammed being my dad and Abdalla being my grandfather then, alhummari being my clan name and Al yafai being the name of my tribe in Yemen. It's interesting

@barakato

11 ай бұрын

The good thing with using this old technique is that you will always remember some of your ancestors, i have never seen anyone use it in these times but i have memorized 6 generations of my ancestors untill i got to my tribe's name; barakat.

@omaralyafai2368

11 ай бұрын

@@barakato not only that, historians also would keep linages of tribes and peoples as well. For example we know the lineage of my tribe from a 9th century historian named Al hamadani in his book Al ikleel (الاكليل). What's even more interesting is that depending on the tribe you can tell where the tribe is from. Barakat screams Palestinian

@barakato

11 ай бұрын

@@omaralyafai2368 man, i don't know i mixed those two, barakat is my surname and also my great great grandfather's name, my tribe's name is ûmerkî who was a kurdish man in the 1600's in modern day Turkey, around merdin.

@barakato

11 ай бұрын

@@omaralyafai2368 i wish i can track it down to the ninth century lol

@Bigskitch

11 ай бұрын

It’s interesting to note the dialectical differences-in Moroccan Arabic ghazala is deer, I wonder if there’s any link between the two.

Hey! Wanted to say I love your videos and get genuinely excited when I get the notification of a new release. Very informative, clear and engaging, coukd listen to you for hours. This video in particular I thought how this Arabic system could've impacted my naming system (portuguese). As an example, we call our first King "Afonso Henriques" which means something like "Afonso son of Henrique", as this was the way the moors would refer to him, "Ibn-Errik" (his father was an earl who got his title by helping the kingdom of leon during the reconquista). More interestingly, it seems thay in Portuguese this importance given to the father's name remained, normally last names come from the father's side, while our Castillan neighbours prefer the mother's name as the last one. Learning with you is great! Keep up the good work :)

@premodernist_history

11 ай бұрын

Thank you! Yes, it's fascinating how much Arab culture influenced Iberia. The Spanish and Portuguese naming systems are also interesting, and largely unfamiliar to anglophones.

I’ve started to watch you and it’s very interesting what I can put in my world building for Dongons et dragons. Reflecting to history in that regard makes it very original. It’s true that cinema and fiction is very much done reflecting our own existence and believe system ! Thanks as always!

Wow.. for the first time I realize as an Arab how deep and difficult our naming system is compared to the western system😅 but you did a great job explaining it❤

@Halal_Dan

10 ай бұрын

Yet much more useful and meaningful

@SunnySJamil

10 ай бұрын

It is far more meaningful than the simpler (stupider) alternative, which causes people to share one "surname" and imply no relation at all.

@akumayoxiruma

10 ай бұрын

@@SunnySJamil: True but it's also sexist and revealing a bit more information than necessary - especially when that person wants to move away.

@hkhan3535

10 ай бұрын

@@akumayoxiruma your comment just proves how broken the Western culture is right now. A person should be proud of their family lineage and strive so that it continues to be respected. Only an ungrateful bigot would think about moving away. Regarding being sexist, I could say the same thing about the Western naming convention where the wives need to change their surnames according to their husband's.

@MaSa-bp5qe

4 ай бұрын

@@akumayoxirumahow is it sexist? Because you use the lineage of the father? It’s the same in the West or far East. At least I’m Middle East the wife does not take the last name of her husband.

I love surnames. Surnames are awesome. A great way to read into your own history or the history of a particular region.

I was just rewatching some of your stuff, wistfully hoping you'd upload soon. Massive gift to me, thank you.

Another phenomenal video. As a history lover, its rare to find a video that is on par with a chapter of a book! Please never stop making these!

A very interesting video, thank you very much. A few years ago, I began reading some of the Russian classics, starting with Crime and Punishment. And at some point I got really confused about the names. It seemed as if there were more names than characters in the story, and I had to work out which names actually refer to the same person. This annoyed me enough to make me look up how Russian names function, just so I could read the book properly. It's a much milder example than Arabic names, but there you go.

@premodernist_history

10 ай бұрын

I know what you mean - those middle names.

You should make a video about why we use surnames for historical and important figures but first names when we actually talk to people. Also it's interesting how in the context of this video's topic names also seem to fill a similar role to labels, for example even here in the US we may refer to someone as xyz's father or something along those lines. These old arabic names seem to take these descriptors/labels and use them explicitly as a name (or at least part of it).

@premodernist_history

11 ай бұрын

Descriptors is a good way to put it. In a way, they're all just there to clarify which "Muhammad" or "Yusuf" we're talking about (or whatever the person's ism is).

@Nosirt

11 ай бұрын

The use of surname is to do with how there are more surnames than given names. So it’s less ambiguous to name someone by their surname then given name. Given name will vary by popularity, time, and changes- more frequently than surnames.

@TheoEvian

11 ай бұрын

@@Nosirt In Korea or Vietnam there is actually very few surnames but given names are very plentiful (in Vietnam one has two given names but if I am not mistaken it comes from the Chinese two character naming convention). In East Asia in general it might sometimes seem that given names are almost arbitrary, especially if you include different ways of writing otherwise same sounding names. Auspicious meaning and symbolic number of strokes are however key to a good name. Kim Il-sung's name for example means "Become the sun" (but that is a name he took later in life). Anyway, Asian names are cool.

@tissuepaper9962

11 ай бұрын

historical Europeans had similarly verbose heraldic names, including epithets and lineages just like these.

Really enjoy both the genuine style and the particular professional attitude, subscribed

Amazing video! Love someone whose passionate about their topic and it just shows !

This is actually a very concise and clear explanation of our naming structure. I would like to add one thing though. Many have raised the point that a Kunya is not necessarily the child's name, and that is true. But what they did not mention is that when it is the child's name, it is the eldest child. The kunya remains after that even if the eldest child dies.

@AhmedEx1.

3 ай бұрын

and its specifcally the eldest son (if there is one), if not then then the eldest daughter

Great video. I think which part of the name to refer to someone is depending on the most distinctive, for example you mentioned al-ghazali, most people nowadays refer to him as "abu hammid al-ghazali" because there was another scholar in the modern era called al-ghazali, and this caused confusion because the modern al-ghazali became famous and was simply referred to as "al-ghazali" so people started referring to the medieval al-ghazali as abu hammid(tho to be clear some people still just call him al-ghazali, it depends on the person and context) It's s all about what's distinctive, same would apply to the other examples you've stated

@premodernist_history

11 ай бұрын

Thanks, I thought this might be the case but I wasn't sure. It's good to get some corroboration.

Can't get enough of this channel. Please make more videos =)

Discovered your channel from this video and it is GREAT! Please keep producing! You remind me of when the history channel was about history and not trash tv. I just watched 5 videos back to back and it was a great way to spend my saturday night 😄

Finally a new video. Thanks for your work. Really interesting!

One of my first memories from childhood is my father teaching me my lineage until my 8th grandfather

I love this video, this is about the 5th time I've come back to watch it. Please do more like this which explore the differences between western and Islamic civilisations

Glad I subscribed. I’m from a French colony with Moroccan (another French colony) friends. Great knowledge being shared here with a pleasing and informal style. The comments are also informative, civil and very respectful. Which is a rarity on KZread. I guess the host sets the precedent at a party. Superb channel all around.

@premodernist_history

10 ай бұрын

Thanks!

As an Arab person, I am impressed with how well you understand names and how well you know and understand them. Well done.

@mkg304

10 ай бұрын

Most of the information is not correct!

Caveat: Many Arabs change their names or become known by other names several times in their lives especially if they're into politics. Yes, these names are often much too flattering.

Dude 7:34 I love your channel. You looking for Gazzali on the dictionary is the most beautiful thing I saw today.

I watched the whole 19 minutes of your video, it was nice hearing it as a person who knows both English and Arabic . It was also informative for me not gonna lie 😆

Thank you for making this video throughout my travels to anywhere- I've been to the US and multiple European countries- they always assumed that we -as Arabs- have the same naming as they do , one thing I want to add to your video is that by having this kinda complicated naming scheme we know a lot about a person before evening meeting them of reading anything else which is something that appreciate.

@jadthemagnificent

10 ай бұрын

Why did you put a line over Arabs?

In Indonesia, many people are addressed with some form of Kunya, even though it's not part of their official name. It's considered a more respectful way to address someone. For example, I was addressed with my own name until my first son was born, and then some of my family members, not all, started to address me as "father of so-so" when they call me and address me in a conversation in a more respectful way. I guess it's definitely influenced by Arabic through Islam.

@danendraaryadewa5455

11 ай бұрын

We also do this in bali actually. Menarik sih, antara bali juga dipengaruhi islam/Arab atau di Indonesia sudah ada bentuk lokal dari kunya

@Dismiazs

10 ай бұрын

That is very interesting as I never heard anybody called "father of so-so".

@fadhil2831

10 ай бұрын

Dont forget someone indonesia ethnic group dont have family name/surname as concept,for example javanese the largest ethnic group,many of them dont have it and even many only have one name,this lead to confusion especially from outside of indonesia,perfect example is soekarno name,sometimes people outside of indonesia(western) called him ahmad/ahmed soekarno even though he only has one name

@kriegwhatever

10 ай бұрын

@@Dismiazs That is more prevalent in a close-knit neighborhood where people know both names of their neighbor and his/her children, or in a school where parents often interact. Less so in work/office settings.

@Dismiazs

10 ай бұрын

@@kriegwhatever Now that you said that, I just remember that my mom used to be called 'mom of my name' and often call my friends mom as 'mom of my friend name'. I guess school is probably the only place though. I wonder if the context is similar to the middle eastern.

Thanks for posting this video I always wondered about this 🤔

That's a very interesting perspective on names, as something that evolves during a person's lifetime. Makes more sense in a way. Very cool video!

Really interesting video. Always fascinating to see that things don't need to go as we take them for granted to work. 4:08 The Portuguese word for nickname in Portuguese "alcunha" (there are other synonyms) comes from this word in Arabic 😯

@premodernist_history

11 ай бұрын

That's really interesting. I recently started learning Portuguese (at a slow and casual pace). Cool to learn a new word. I love seeing the Arabic loanwords in Spanish and Portuguese.

@abdulbasit-

10 ай бұрын

Oh wow sounds like al kunya

as an Arab, it's always difficult to explain to someone who's not familiar with our naming structure when they ask about my middle name. I'll say that I don't really have one but it's not that simple..

@klawy2527

10 ай бұрын

Just use your father’s name

@MeMoeMustafaAlnour

10 ай бұрын

​@@klawy2527yeah for us the middle name is always the father's name

@Mag_ladroth

10 ай бұрын

It was weird for me since I was given a western styled name but not given a last name

@oqasho.

10 ай бұрын

@@klawy2527 it's not the same. sure, father's name is usually in the middle, but it doesn't serve as the same function.

@Kyryyn_Lyyh

10 ай бұрын

Just a suggestion, why not just say that the last name in your full name is the “surname”, the first name in order is then your “first name” and the rest are middle. I know that isn’t necessarily accurate in the genealogical standpoint, but in the UK many people use a middle name as their “main name” that people refer to them as. Like all things relating to the English language, the rules are just there for inspiration.

This has quickly become one of my favorite history channels on YT. Keep em coming doc!

Very interesting content. I love this video. Thank you.

As a north african, I really like how you explained this concept. The effort you had put in reaserching for this video really shows. Clapping👏🏼

@rgqwerty63

10 ай бұрын

Im Algerian and its very sad we have completely lost this naming culture in our country. For generations now we've been using the French given name + surname convention

@angosalvo5734

10 ай бұрын

@@rgqwerty63 that's another thing we should rid of from the french/western legacy. Our way of naming was much more efficient and give real value of humanity to people rather than a military/robotic name and family name we have now.

As a fantasy creator (at the very least in the limited sense of running P&P campaigns), I completely agree; authors are very lazy with a variety of concepts when it comes to linguistics that greatly diminishes the 'wonder' a piece can generate, where that feeling comes from unique structures just as much (or maybe more) than it does phonetics. Another failing I'd categorize similarly is the complete lack of word genealogies and endonyms + exonyms, the combination of which (to me) makes fictional cultures infinitely more believable, especially when they are supposed to have shared history. I had never encountered a breakdown of the naming convention described here though, and I thought it was as simple as tacking on male lineage, so I greatly appreciate being made aware of just how substantially different the structure is compared to anglo-sphere names. Great video.

Wow, this was a really fascinating video Truly eye-opening amazing content. Thank you.

That’s a amazing! What a clear way to carry one’s genealogy and history through your name wow! That’s amazing I love it.

This has been pretty eye opening video. My girlfriend and her family are Indonesian, they use a variation of this naming convention wherein they only have 1 name. For example her name is Avira, her father’s is Misbah, and her Mother’s is Chareon. And they sometimes use the nasab.

You're awesome. Please make more content!

Glad to see another video from you!

This was incredibly entertaining and your presentation style is warm and simple - I appreciate this a lot!

This is the third time I've come back to this video and it finally struck me that "ghazzali" sounds much like the English word "gauze", which would comport with it meaning something related to cotton. I looked it up on Wiktionary and they say "gauze" comes from Arabic "qazz" meaning silk (by way of French "gaze") but I wonder if that's actually correct. Never studied Arabic myself (although I would love to add it to my linguistic toolbelt) so I'd like it if somebody more learned on the matter could weigh in. Is that modern English word cognate with this medieval Arabic word?

@user-xv5fv7im8s

5 ай бұрын

Al-ghazzali name came from "ghazzal-غزّال"( the verb form of "yarn-ghazl-غزل") which means the one who makes the spin, his father was one of them so he called as Alghazzali. Also I read in Wikipedia that he had objected this meaning he said his name is "Al-ghazali" named after a village called "Ghazala - غزالة" the female form of غزال, which means gazelle in English it's a borrowed word. Anyway the Ghazala village is from a city called "Tous" in Iran

@user-xv5fv7im8s

5 ай бұрын

Also to answering your question silk is hariir حرير in Arabic, qazz دودة القز is the silkworm. Ghazzal starts with the غ ghain letter, and qazz with qaf ق. they're a different sounds so qazz and ghazzal aren't related

7:00 the "gazzal" literally means gazelle in Arabic So the word "gazzali" could mean someone who hunts or sells gazelles the second meaning for the word "gazzali" could be driven from the word "ghazal" which is a form of Arabic poetry that focuses on love, and the beauty of women In that sense "Gazzali" could mean someone who recites love poems

@AymenDZA

11 ай бұрын

There's also "Ghazl/غزْل" which is The act of spinning yarn or something similar.

@LastBrigadier

11 ай бұрын

The double ZZ there is actually an orthographic error since there is no stress on the Z in the original Arabic, this also occurs with the name Hassan and Hussein, both given a double S for no good reason as there is no actual stress on the said sounds. Ghazzal in Arabic means "Flirter" while Ghazal is the word for "Deer" or Gazelle.

@ferouihamza

11 ай бұрын

@@LastBrigadier well if you want to be more specific on those details we'd have to use phonetic alphabet, which isn't the point

@gammal1

11 ай бұрын

The correct way of pronouncing Al-Ghaz(z)ali's name is actually disputed. Some say there's indeed an emphasis on the Z, and that his father used to make yarn which would make "yarn spinner/weaver" the more likely meaning. Another opinion is that he's from a village called غزالة (literally, Gazelle), but that's weak, since it's well known that he's from Tous.

@afeefazaman4373

10 ай бұрын

ويُعرَف بـ “الغزّالي” نسبة إلى صناعة الغزل،[9] حيث كان أبوه يعمل في تلك الصناعة، ويُنسب أيضاً إلى “الغَزَالي” نسبة إلى بلدة غزالة من قرى طوس، وقد قال عن نفسه: «النّاس يقولون لي الغزّالي، ولستُ الغزّالي، وإنّما أنا الغَزَالي منسوبٌ إلى قرية يُقال لها غزالة».[10]، وقد قال ابن خلكان أن نسبته إلى “الغزّالي” (بتشديد الزاي) هو المشهور، وهو أصحّ من نسبته إلى “الغَزَالي”،[11]

I reallly enjoyed this video ! Shokran

Thank you for this. This is very helpful.

The tradition for a wife to get husband’s surname came from Roman culture, where the question of property inheritance was very important. So wife and whatever she owns becomes husband’s property. Unlike in Islamic law, wife is not inherited and she preserves her own property and she does not get husband’s surname.

Love your content!

@premodernist_history

11 ай бұрын

Thanks!

I love the channel, I’d definitely love long form Hardcore History esque podcasts from this guy. Also, he sounds exactly like Louis CK and I sometimes have to do a mental double take.

This was an incredibly informative video, thank you for posting it!

@premodernist_history

10 ай бұрын

Thank you!

Fantastic video. I'd love to see more videos about Arabic Medieval culture, literature and art. And, why not, naming conventions in other cultures?

@premodernist_history

11 ай бұрын

Thanks! Yes, I hope to do more videos about the medieval Middle East. Other naming conventions is a good idea, too. Maybe I could explain the naming of Chinese emperors, if I ever figure that out myself.

@MustafaAlmosawi

11 ай бұрын

The Japanese aristocracy and samurai class also had a fairly elaborate naming system, and a similar idea like a formal nick name similar to the laqab. If memory serves Japan only broadly adopted Anglo-style last names society-wide they underwent the rapid Modernization and Westernization during the Meiji restoration.

As a fantasy writer I am very thankful for this video. I am constantly looking for ways to make my worlds that I create realistic and yet full of diverse cultures, and one of my favorite ways to do this is with languages and how they are used, names are an extension of this, and is something I haven't thought much of other than how Asian cultures will flip the surname to be before the given name. I'm definitely taking notes and hope to play with this in my own writing!

@SilentBeutlin

5 ай бұрын

for fantasy writers I highly, highly recommend the channel Cambrian Chronicles. It’s a guy who does fun videos about pre-medieval britain, specifically wales, and has nothing to do with writing or fantasy - but watching those you keep having to re-think your conception of these kinds of landscapes and social structures, and there is so much in there that feels like ‘fantasy writers get this wrong!’ So much of it feels like Tolkien, and gives you an insight into why Tolkien feels so real. Because it was real. A long time ago.

@KD400_

5 ай бұрын

The arabs are not Asian.

My fantasy tends to draw on African patterns of naming. You're very right about our presuppositions, too! Thanks for this great video

I appreciate you being so respectful discussing this. Thank you.

I am an Arab and I would disagree with you saying that there are no surnames in Arabic. I would argue that the Tribe’s name is a surname, it’s actually a super surname, specially in this day and age. For ordinary people you always can use the first name “the person’s given name “next to the tribe’s name and you would get the correct name.

@ChristaFree

11 ай бұрын

That's what he's saying basically. We have communities but don't all have the same surname. We say we're from whatever community but we have different last names unless we're blood relatives generally. Some folks have the same last name but have no blood relations. Before we started using surnames, which is actually fairly recent in history, last names were an occupation or a place. I imagine population growth and movement of people had something to do with the evolution of surnames. Plus governments want to make sure they collect tax from every single person so I'm sure that had something to do with it.

@TheoEvian

11 ай бұрын

@@ChristaFree As a case study close to me personally, in Central Europe it had all to do with conscription and census - that is taxes. Also with the Habsburg monarchy wanting to integrate certain religious minorities, mainly Jews: toleration in exchange of linguistic assimilation (getting a German sounding surname). Slavic surnames come very frequently from animals (mine is a diminutive of a horse) or adjectives and in around half of slavic languages they have distinct masculine and feminine forms which can confuse an American and also means that you can always tell if said person is a man or a woman. Which of course sometimes complicates gender related issues.

@midoevil7

10 ай бұрын

Yeah, but it is OPTIONAL in arabic, while it is not in the English bureaucracy. In Egyptian cities for example, it is common for a family to not have a lineage to any big tribe or family. So, there is no surname, and documents will only use first name and nasab till 4th or 5th generation .

@midshipman8654

10 ай бұрын

Yah, I think its just a semantic lense really. One that doesnt get at the "forest for the trees" of the topic. Its just that there has been a process of standardization in some western cultures for bookkeeping rather than it being this large fundamentally different thing, or even one thats all that foreign. Anglophone Surnames can be very similar to Arabic ones in origin, sometimes referring to a clan, tribe, or house like McDonald, or an occupation like Smith, or a nickname like "Armstrong", etc. And its not even that foreign in media and stuff. You get names like "Geralt of Rivia" refering to a place or "Blackbeard" for the pirate Edward Teach or Billy "the Kid" for the outlaw. Or multiple different titles This is a personal gripe, but im not a fan of actively trying to make things seem exotic when the principle is actually rather universal, even if there are particulars in different cultures. I think its counterproductive to understanding.

@Jirenblack82

10 ай бұрын

@@midoevil7 Do people in Egypt not know their tribes of origin (Arab, Coptic, etc)?

His Arabic is.. actually decent lol...

very knowledgeable video, learnt many new things, being a muslim knew few things like didn't knew what exactly they were called like "kunya" , "nasab", "nisba" etc. great content, really appreciate it.

Great work, subscribed and looking forward to your future videos.

After coming across these names and or more specifically some of the words (ibn, al-, abd etc.) it's great to have some clarification as to their actual meanings : D Thank you so much for this video!

The sci-fi writer Iain M. Banks used this type of names in his Culture novels.

great content from non speaking Arabic scholar ! Great professor,he is genuinely knowing of details , thus credible in his explanation.

Just came across this channel. As a bilungual Arabic/English speaker, couldn't have explained it any better!

When you broke down the naming elements and refered to spec fiction naming conventions it reminded me how loads of characters in Lord of the Rings are introduced as "Aragon, son of Arathorn" or how most characters in Game of Thrones have nicknames like "Sir Jaime Lannister, the Kingslayer", for a sci-fi example theres Paul Atreides from Dune who is known to his followers as Paul Muad'Dib (the little mouse). Also the name accretion thing reminds me of Turin, Son of Hurin who goes by several nicknames throughout his life (Adanedhel, Agarwaen, Dagnir Glaurunga, Gorthol, Mormegil, Neithan, Thurin, Turambar, Turindo). I hope this was interesting if you hadn't come across these names before. Also, love your content!

@premodernist_history

11 ай бұрын

Thanks! The Dune example is interesting since I've heard that Herbert was partially inspired by T. E. Lawrence. I have yet to delve into Tolkien's world (I've only read The Hobbit and part of Fellowship). I wonder if he got inspiration from Welsh naming patterns, which has a version of the nasab along with sometimes nicknames that would correspond to the nisba or laqab.

@LezThanhuman101

11 ай бұрын

@@premodernist_history The names are Quenya (Elvish) which I believe is primarily inspired by Old English but there was definitely a heavy Gaelic influence

@Yanzdorloph

11 ай бұрын

i don't know about Dune but Muad'Dib either means teacher or torturer depends on if the "A" in Muad'Dib is pronounced as an "a" or as a "3a" idk that letter don't exist in latin languages so it's usualy written as just a, could be some forshadowing from the author

@rolebo1

10 ай бұрын

@@Yanzdorloph In the books it is translated as "Teacher", but either translations would fit.

Thanks so much for this video! When you started breaking down names, I thought, "Wouldn't it be great if he does al-Kamil?" And then you did! Al-Kamil is one of my top five favorite historical figures of all time. He might be #1 currently. I've been known to corner unsuspecting history geeks and tell them his whole life story. (Yes, he ruled Egypt during the Fifth Crusade, first as vizier, then as sultan. His victory in that Crusade was simply brilliant, and his handling of the Sixth Crusade--the culmination of his long-distance bromance with Frederick II, Holy Roman Emperor--was pretty brilliant also.)

I love your work! Thanks!

Parents at my local primary school here in London have come to refer to themselves by teknonyms: my mother's phone book still contains entries like "Anna Jacob's Mum" (which in Arabic would be "حنة أمم يعقوب").

i just find it amazing that i don't feel confused about this because I'm an arab so for us this is like second nature , but when he explained it i can see why it's confusing for some people.

@alemspahovic4126

10 ай бұрын

Always, i feel too that confused of a arabic person thing, but when you actually make a picture and write it, then i don't forget.