I never read the dice rolling in Matt's head as something good or bad, rather I saw it as something big about to happen and fate is lining itself up to go one way or the other. Once the dice stopped rolling, the path has been decided

One of the most genius hilarious theories I've ever read was on reddit. It went as follows "My headcanon is that Mat isn't any luckier than the rest, he just gives the pattern less to work with. Rand: on the advice of a dozen Aiel chiefs, we'll set up our troops like this. Pattern: goes off without a hitch. Perrin: we'll poison their water supply with forkroot and swoop in while the channelers are unconscious. Pattern: it's super effective! Mat: ok I've set things up so that unless I roll six sixes with five dice, four plot-critical people will die and the world will be destroyed. Pattern: fuck you, Mat. Fuck you." And then someone followed that up by saying from the POV of the Creator OK if you're gonna give me a headache then I'll give you a headache to *dice rolling in your head* You know what just to spite you I'm gonna make you marry a Seanchan And you don't want to lead people, Well make you a fucking general

RJ separates the luck and the pattern. Thus, the luck is outside the pattern. Who else is outside the pattern?...the Dark One. Therefore, the Dark One's own luck refers to a 'Power' that is outside the pattern. Mat's luck is not of the Dark one, but comes from the same place. This is why it becomes more pronounced as the pattern breaks down.

@johndunn1625

11 ай бұрын

Oh, that's genius. Especially with how often there's a concept in the series that gets warped or misinterpreted over time, having the idea that luck and the Dark One being different but then the phrase 'The Dark One's own luck' being born has solid grounding

I have always read it as the dagger feeding off of Mat's luck, or maybe suppressing it rather than being any kind of source for his luck. Then when he is finally healed in Tar Valon it is like a dam breaking and all comes out at once resulting in the infamous "luck bender".

@WiseGuyGene

Жыл бұрын

The dagger first fed Matt's natural luck and then sucked it back into itself multiplied. because the dagger is greed. When the connection is broken, the multiplied luck is loosed in the world.

I was just reading earlier today on a reread the part where Mat is blowing the horn on Tomans Head and was expection Hawkwing to have a conversation with Mat but that is apparantly not the case at this time in the story. However many times i read this series i never get tired of Mat chapters. While i do skim some parts of the books i never skim anywhere where Mat is present. For me Mat Cauthon is the favorite charachter from any series i ever read.

@christianefiorito3204

7 ай бұрын

Me neither. Matt is never boring

The funniest part of Matt is what hes thinking not what hes saying. Love it. I think thats what threw me off with the Brandon Sanderson version of Matt is that he became more of a goof than a charismatic prankster

Re: the “gambler” moniker not being lucky-I agree it’s not about luck. But it’s also not about Mat losing like gamblers lose, it’s about him becoming the archetype of The Gambler and being a master of gambling. How to use it, when to use it, when to let risks play out, etc.

I am also with delusions on liking Fain's demise. I was surprised to hear people didn't like it.

@thedragonreborn9856

10 ай бұрын

Completely agree, epic callback to the first book. I also get the impression that it was planned since the first book. So many things in the end seem to be a callback to things set up in the first book.

@evilemuempire9550

10 ай бұрын

I liked the demise, just not the buildup. It just felt like he was super important for the first three or so books, and then was relegated to a single pov in the pro/epilogue that could be summed up as “yep, still evil. Still hate Rand and the Dark One” and that’s it. I don’t think he and Mat even meet after he gets the dagger.

I am not a wot expert, but Jordan’s mythology he created for the wot universe has a heavy dose of determinism in it’s language. Particularly describing time and human lives as part of a woven interconnected pattern determined by the wheel, where events could be viewed as both long ago or far in the future but only from the perspective of the wheel. From that view Mat’s luck, which seems to be greatest at critical moments, is a manifestation of his important role in the pattern as a ta’veren. Everything occurs because it’s been woven into the weave to be that way. It was predetermined Mat was this Gambler come again who was going to have a critical role in the last battle and he’d make all the decisions that would lead him directly down the path that the wheel set for him; luck at the right times, great physical skill, and would develop martial skills.

1 Just like blending the dark one's taint with the taint of shadar logoth kind of canceling both out and cleansing saidin. Could his brief connection with the dagger have loosened the dark one's minor influence on him and his natural luck and potentially giving the creator an extra chance to influence his taveren nature. 2. There is also the other part of this the balance on how Fain spreads misfortune while he brings fortune. Both of these actually has a lot in common with how Rand makes everything grow around him when he stops being influenced by his hardness and also how it is described as a counterpoint to Shadar Haram. 3. Now a more interesting and rarely talked about idea is also tied into him hearing dice: Min being a doom seer and seeing images of the future is in certain ways strikingly similar, could Mat be a related phenomena where instead of seeing a predetermined set future, he can slightly bend the immediate one and has an auditory cue vs her visual one. This is also particularly interesting as the group met her shortly before he got the dagger and could have been a trigger to unlock his extraordinary luck as well. 4: Last one is just a silly one, but it amuses me. With Matt's success with women could it be he charms/charmed Lady Luck Herself.

I always thought that Mat was naturally lucky although his Ta'veren nature amplified his luck even further. However the dice rolling in his head before important moments or decisions in his life points to some sort of talent or ability unique to Mat.

Always love your show guys!! Means a lot that you provide this for us all so consistently 💓 also Great Topic!!

@kerrissedai6857

Жыл бұрын

I find myself enjoying listening the next day if I miss the initial stream.

Mat's development is unusual, on the one hand I have the impression that many things have always been there - Mat says it was the Aelfinn who gave him his memories, but he speaks the Oldtongue before that. The gambline part also started earlier than that. I really can't tell what is Mat, what came from the Dagger, what came from the Aelfinn. I would almost say that the Dagger and the Aelfinn only unlocked things that were already part of him.

I really hope the writers for WOT are following Dusty Wheel, Black Tower, and others to get ideas for their scripts!!!!

@paulh1886

2 ай бұрын

Doubtful. The show is beyond awful with terribly lazy writing

@kerrissedai6857

2 ай бұрын

@@paulh1886 I’m glad you got that out your system. It’s good to vent our frustrations. Now you can move on in yo life.

The first reference to Mat's luck I remember is early in the Great Hunt where Mat's playing dice with some Shienaren soldiers. It says how good his luck was even at this point.

Not sure if anyone posted something like this but maybe Mat's luck if it is connected to the dagger is due to the fact that the energy of Shadar Logoth opposes the dark one and Mat became infused and immune to the dagger's energy after he was "cured" of it. Maybe it made Mat also be outside the Dark one's direct influence, being bad luck in a way, and so without bad luck there is only good luck left? Idk thought just popped in my head.

Seems like Mat's luck goes crazy when he's cured which suggests that the dagger, rather than enhancing his luck, was actually hindering it. And once released, like a drawn bowstring, it loosed the luck bender.

The dice in his head don’t say anything about luck, just what the pattern needs from him. I think.

I had a hard time enjoying Mat as a character early in the series, especially in comparison to Rand and Perrin. By the time he is interacting with Tuon, he was my favorite. In particular, I really liked her POV chapter when she's observing Mat command in the field. They way she described him as buffoonish and unserious until seeing him in context, in command of soldiers and maneuvering against an enemy.

Great looking bookshelf

Great show thanks Matt! (I'm a bit behind atm) Omar and Delusions are always great guests with lots of interesting things to say. Also Delusions reads aloud wonderfully, smart move to keep asking her to do it 😂 I started off lazily thinking his luck was how ta'veren manifests for Matt. Totally sold that it's separate now. His Ta'veren nature sets the external conditions to give him a chance/route to success, but the luck itself is all his. As noted it maybe amplified by a number of things but to me it's inherent in his nature/soul. He is The Gambler. Cheers

Jeepers cant believe it took me so long to find you guys😂. 🤟🏾

Mat's Luck is failsafe mechanism of the Light in case Shadow begins to affect the Pattern greatly. He is the Ace in the Hole for the End times to baffle the Shadow :-)

Mat gains his memories in every turning of the wheel. I feel like this gives him a semi conscious ability to control the Tavern's abilty to manipulate the pattern just like in Tel'arn'rhiod NEED is the key and he uses that to his advantage.

Oh never mind I see it linked in the description!

Idc really where it comes from, it’s just dope that it’s there. He’s just that guy. “Fire to blind. Music to dazzle. Iron to bind.” ‘And Matrim Cauthon,’ Mat added. ‘To bloody even the odds.’”

Where did you get the art of Mat for the beginning of the video? It’s amazing! Who is the artist?

I always assumed it was Ta'veren while reading the book

Pet heory of mine not really related to Mat's luck: I believe, and it might say somewhere but I don't recall seeing it, that Mat would have become a great strategist and battle-leader even without his Finn experience. (I refuse to call ing Finnland because that is actually a real country. Even though I just said it... 😉) Given time he would become as great as the ones of his time. But the Last Battle wait for no man to become great with tme, and so Mat got himself a bit of a cheat sheet. Because the Wheel weaves as the wheel wills. 😀

I don't think Mat would lose very much of his luck. If I remember correctly, every time Mat 'lost' a bet, it was the luckiest thing that could've happened. In other words: Mat was really running a 100% winning ratio. That's more than Ta'veren can account for. By all accounts Mat isn't strongly powerful in that regard. Honestly, even Rand couldn't affect the variety of threads the wheel weaved. Next, I believe that Mats soul, being the 'Gambler' (capitol G). His luck is implied to already be better than almost every other hero, I use them and the shadow bound souls that get reborn. There's probably a talent associated with luck. If not Mat is the only one of the Edmonds Fields kids to not have a Talent. So, he's def top 1% in terms of luck at base form. Next, he gained his Ta'veren abilities. It seems that its this ability that allowed him to build his luck even better. Think of it: TWoT was based off of an adventure world for a table top game. Think stats... Mat stacked his luck stat. Then he attuned to a cursed dagger that effects others with the wielders intent. Bonus to luck and area of effect stacks with Ta'veren. Then, in a healing that required a Sa'Angreal, and a circle of some of the most powerful Aes Sedai in the tower. They flat out state they used just under the amount of the power that would kill him. But rooted out the evil of the dagger. But he would always bear some effect of the dagger. However, Mat was just pumped so full of the power that infused him when the evil that was cleansed. That power had to sustain him after he lost so much to the dagger. Its a part of him now. And that also boosts his luck stat. Then, he goes to the Finns. He is given memories, incalculable experience. And, its entire lifetimes, not just battles, he remembers. The kind of experience that let's you basically predict outcomes based on personal experience. He got his spear, and his medallion. But, those were just his epic gear. Between luck and immunity to the one power, he's untouchable. He's basically crit fishing. He has bonuses to all his saving throws, attack rolls, and ability checks due to his luck; already renowned by the hero's of the horn, getting boosted by power gaming (Mat would power game). His Ta'veren abilities pale in comparison to the way the pattern built the Gambler this time. Remember, the Dragon kinda lost the battle in the age of legends. This Last Battle was critical. The wheel spun out extremely powerful souls to help the Dragon Reborn, made those souls Ta'veren as well. Then, gave those souls additional abilities to help more. In addition, there are the ladies who also are extremely powerful, if not bound heroes reborn for this purpose, who also have powerful Talents. The Wheel was taking no chances. Mats luck is his own, barely effected by being Ta'veren except that he effects more threads and the pattern weaves around him... for a time. And this time the Wheel boosted his luck by creating events that boosted him. The daagers residue effects were perfect to boost luck, so he had it long enough to gain the boost before he was healed... By more of the power than it likely anyone has had go through them in a very long time. The Aes Sedai were exhausted after healing him... Remember circle with the 2nd strongest female Sa'Angreal. Its that combination. That's all his. His Talent (Luck: as the soul known as the Gambler) and the one power replacing the evil of the dagger. Also, more than 100 different lifetimes of knowledge and experience. I ask you this: look at any of the core group. Each and every single one of them has a Talent thought lost. Every one of them is OP. Each one of them pull off feats of power that shock everyone else, each day, as a back hand motion. Not only that, but Rand abs Perrin not only have powerful Talents, but are also Ta'veren. But, Mat is just lucky, sometimes. Remember, he was still losing after his Ta'veren abilities manifested up until he got healed. Literally, Huron had beat him a few times until he collapsed on the way to Tar Valon. Its safe to say breing Ta'veren barely effects luck in things not associated to the weave. But then he was healed. The dice rolling came exactly after that. Its at this point Mat notices his luck has dramatically changed, and now effects more than just gambling... Example: falling on the Gray Man that tried to kill him on the Tar Valon rooftops to break his fall perfectly, while killing his attacker. And at that exact moment finds Thom. The luck he gained after being healed is much more powerful alone than his own luck and being Ta'veren had given him before. So, anyways, that's why his luck won't fade. Being Ta'veren has little effect on luck not associated to the Wheel being woven. And the luck Mat is known for came well after he manifested SS Ta'veren. Specifically; it appeared after only one of two things happened to Mat. The dagger almost killed him, rendering him unconscious, and he was healed. There's is an obvious line drawn there. Before being healed, he was lucky. After being healed he was on what amounts to an always winning streak (in random things, the more random, the better). My guess is that it has to do with the amount of power it took to heal him. And the dagger was equally powerful. Do the math: we saw Egwene win a Battle against the Seanchan under the same conditions as Mats healing took place. The Sa' Angreal and a circle. Add that same amount of 'power' the dagger had on him. Wait... That energy output seems to be fairly close to the amount used to clean the source. And, its said the evil of Aridhol was not of the dark one, but of human creation. Is the influence that destroyed Aridhol still present in Mat, but removed from the evil taint? That was a slight aside. The reason was to show the ability manifested after he became Ta'veren, and is clearly linked to him being healed. He will always be lucky, its just the world can stop revolving around him.

Pedron nail I'm not sure of his name but he is the white clock leader the dice roll in his head the same way as mat's.

my idea is that the Dragon is not the only eternal being bound to the wheel, an 'avatar of the creator', it also include Mat/ The Gambler/ The Trickster/ Son of Battles and Perrin/ The Blacksmith/ The Wolf, who also gets reincarnated when the pattern needs them

I also enjoyed Padan Fain’s demise it was a perfect ending that made 100% sense.

"if I get LUCKY, & find this quote..." Well if u had Mat's LUCK, it would've just popped into ur screen, lol

Wasn’t Matt healed from effects of that dagger ?

Matt may not have earned the label "Gambler" in the eyes of the Heroes until he accomplished more.

@christianrapper

Жыл бұрын

In real life RJ might not even have thought about it. Story wise though it’s not like he had a drawn out conversation with the heroes in book 2 like he did in book 14. If would be weird for them to call him every nickname in a brief conversation.

I honestly feel mats power has nothing to do with being taveran or the dagger. I feel the same way Perrin is a wolf brother and rand can Channel is same as mat being extraordinarily lucky. Because he’s over powered people try to look for situations or scenario where he’s undeserving of them

Why should he be no longer Taviren? He had his death and resurrection moment much before Rand. And does not loose a talent but actually augments it.

Is the answer champion of Luck plus Tavern?

Ta’veren nature or Tavern nature? Who can tell for sure?

I haven't finished this yet, but incase the didn't mention it, I think Matt knowing how to lose, like Rand knowing how to bend the pattern to him, shows that him being ta'veren has something to do with it.

The higher the stakes the luckier Mat seemed to be

🤯

He is a gero of the horn and luck is a feat

Jordan would have seen the play (1966) and or the movie (1990) Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead. In that long first scene, they flip a coin a zillion times and it always comes up heads. Eventually they decide they must be dead. RJ would have seen that play and movie and when Matt died ON THE TABLE when being healed in TV, basically from the Dagger. He died and came back. It released him from the horn AND gave him his crazy luck. In fact, the more times he died or visited death through the dagger or the Snakes and Foxes, the better his luck. In the last battle his former deaths are referenced, too. He remembers dying in a past life and his luck increases. It opens a door. Every time. Death is the door that opens his luck. Not being Ta’veran except that being Ta’veran is ALSO lucky, right? Being Ta’veran is part of his luck not the other way around. I think Sanderson and Jordan confirm my theory. Lol. I see what I want to see.

@Wouldyoukindly4545

Жыл бұрын

He wasn't released from the Horn while being healed from the Dagger, he was released when Ravihn kills him. It is only Balefile that brings him back but the connection was severed.

Oooo, maybe Egwene “died” in the basement with Fain and she was reborn as Ta’veran. Lol!

His souls is the Gambler. His luck is taveeran

He is also lucky with women and in battles.

He doesn’t become the gambler until after he is “healed” by the Aes Sedai. The dagger + healing + taveren = Matt’s luck. Why is home being healed never discussed?

The Gambler (big g) implies lucky. Otherwise it’s just a reckless person or an addiction that quickly ruins someone.

G @1:37:08 😮😊

I wouldn't say that Matt luck side steps the pattern.

Just a random comment on a random comment, the color shifting cloak was just magic camouflage and it was just lazy/amazon being cheap is why we don't get it. It's lame because it would work perfectly on screen how the warders normally aren't meant to even be involved in the conversation and how they would just disappear and suddenly reappear. I honestly can't believe how much leeway you guys give Rafe... Hell even the ageless faces, sit down some computer graphics kids and tell them to come up with a mask/filter that can be applied that ages/de ages people constantly. Christ I bet they could make an instagram app to do it but once again its budget not that it wouldn't work on screen. Good thing they spent that budget showing off weaves and not just some super power...

I loved the wheel of time series. Until Robert Jordans death. He used an author who primarily wrote children's stories. And it came through in the writing, enough to cause me to lose interest.

I always saw mat's luck as a side effect of his run in with mordeth. It was after his close call with the evil of shadar logoth and being healed that it first surfaces. The wot is a fantastic set of books. Too bad the t.v. series is a burning sewage plant.😢

Books, yes. Show can be burned to the ground.