Love this review! Just found this and will look forward to seeing more from you two. Rock-on ladies.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for the lovely feedback! ☺

I love how you guys address the theme issue, I think it is so important to speak up when the publisher misrepresented people and where they are from. I’m sure it wasn’t meant to be offensive. I will wait till the new expansion to see if they make effort to address it. Once again great review, love your opinion and thoughts as always!

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much Marg. Not an easy or enjoyable thing to talk about, but we felt we had to be true to how it made us feel to take on these roles. Thanks again for watching and commenting 💕

@tylerbrown9797

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed

Thanks a lot for another great review Amy and Maggie! Love the honesty here and positive vibes. I was considering buying a Pfister game and was deciding between this one and GWT, but you made the choice easy :) Have a great 2021 and thank you once again!

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much for this lovely feedback. Enjoy GWT (I assume lol!) Happy new gaming year!

you guys are so cool and fun, thanks for sharing your enthusiasm with everyone

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Aww thank you for taking the time to write this lovely feedback! ☺

@jalzter1

3 жыл бұрын

that being said, ooof, bit of a heavy ep. Also thnx for talking about the tough stuff

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Yes not at all fun to talk about but we couldn't ignore. Time to move onto some lighter themed games for a little while!

keep the videos coming! channel is starting to really gather steam!!

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Lol help! It is all a bit overwhelming! 😅 thank you for your continued support of our channel 💕

As always, great video! I'm glad to get the perspective of someone that has directly lived in the place depicted by the theme and it was a great discussion. I'm also glad that I can stick to GWT and skip this one (My purse also thanks you).

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Arwen, very much appreciate the lovely feedback ☺

Your reviews are really good! Same for your Kickstarter diary.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Aw thanks Anna! Took us a few months to work out our style but we are feeling more comfortable each time. Very much appreciate the support and you taking the time to comment! ☺

I just discovered you guys and you’re awesome! Subscribed and looking forward to your review on CloudAge when you receive it!

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much Daniel, welcome to the channel and glad to have you here! ☺

Great video ladies! Do you two have a video on Fields of Arle?

Well said! Keep doing your thing and making the boardgame community a better place for everyone.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the lovely support, that means a lot to us (wasn't sure about how this would be received tbh) 💕

Thanks for this review. Just wondering if since then, you'd have tried it with The Uprising? And with it, would you still recommend GWT NZ over it? Thanks!

Happy new year and thank you for another great video! When I read last year (well, two years ago xD) what was the time period where the game was set, and after seeing the Spanish Cross of Burgundy in the board, it was a hard pass for me (being Spanish) so I can't image how mad would Maggie have been about the theme of the game. Mechanically speaking, it looks very interesting, I haven't played Great Western Trail, but you have just put it on my radar! However, I personally think that even if the mechanics are awesome, you cannot make a game with this theme. After watching your video, apparently the theme is not that well integrated so Pfister should have moved the theme elsewhere, like in the Moon or in Mars or somewhere else where no harm is made (unless there are aliens already there!). I'm looking forward hearing your thoughts about CloudAge, I want to buy that game but, the only reviews that I've seen that youtube has so far are in German, and I can't understand a thing haha

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

The moon or Mars 😆 Yes Maggie was quite upset and turned off by the theme, I'm sure that if it were not for the channel she may have refused to play it. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts on this with us, and for the lovely feedback. Wishing you a happy new year as well ☺

Nice ! This game never spoke to me but thanks for reminding, I gotta play Great Western Trail. I have been avoiding it thinking that it’s heavier but this is much heavy so I gotta play Western Trail. I have heard great things about it.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Yes it is a wonderful game! Happy new year Kriti! Thanks as always for commenting ☺

@kritisharma1123

3 жыл бұрын

@@ThinkerThemer Happy new year to you both. Loads of love to you both and to your family! Give them my best. As always, keep rocking 😘❤️

Your problem with the theme is precisely why I've avoided this game and avoid games with themes of colonisation in general. I would go a little further and challenge designers on what I perceive as laziness to tackle these sorts of themes head on and with sensitivity. Great review team!

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts Joseph! I hope we can see more games that are educational & sensitive too. Appreciate your comments as always! ☺

As for mechanics only,you still prefer GWT rather than this?I own and love Maracaibo, wondering if there is space for GWT next to it.Thank you for your content!!

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

I think if you play LOTS of different styles of games it would feel samey, but the strategy and mechanics are quite different so (theme aside) for euro lovers such as ourselves we would see space for both. GWT is lighter - but by no means light.

Also, I would ask if you think adding some native characters into the game would be enough to resolve any issues you have with it? I own the second edition which changed the 'Plantation Owner' card into a 'Hostel Warden'. They both mechanically do the same thing but it got me thinking that this was the precise problem with the game. I don't think it was the plantation owner in the game which made it insensitive. Infact it was the inverse; of how little the game grappled with its own thematic setting. The nominal change just removes the discourse, rubs away the games chance to engage with its own theme and sensitises the game further. Nevermind that the simple change just underlines that many other things could have had a face swap without effecting anything else.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

No, that wouldn't be enough in our opinion. We agree with you that there is a way to educate and recount historical events but being selective and putting the player in the role of the aggressor with no acknowledgement of the wrongdoings in the gameplay (or barely the rulebook) just seems in poor taste.

Great review. You made a setup error. In a 2-player game (and solo, because it is set up as a 2-player game) you have to place 3 ownership markers onto the board as part of setup. A red ownership marker has to be placed onto location 6 (San Juan), a white onto location 7 (St. Kitts), and a blue onto location 8 (Martinique). See rulebook, page 2, lower left italics paragraph. A lot of people seem to forget this setup rule, or didn't read it because it was in a different typeset (italics instead of regular). mechanisms

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Oh thanks René that's how we played it actually... we just forgot to do that for the overhead for our discussion (we set up the board to talk about how things work but were not playing). Good eye given how terrible our lighting was that day! Lol

Please review your top Abstract games. Love you both.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Maggie hates abstracts, no theme! Lol

Happy new year ladies!! So glad you addressed the theme, as I knew you would. Hopefully Pfister can help right the 'balance' but as it stands this is not a theme I wish to spend time on.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Yes that is completely understandable... and we've not played something that felt so uncomfortable. Unfortunate for such a favourite designer of ours and I do hope he can find a way to be more thoughtful about theme and sincere in rectifying current designs. Happy new year to you too Virginia, wishing you a safe and game-filled 2021 💕

after watching your AFFO your no.1 game of all time i just have to ask this,, are you okay with the theme about pillaging and raiding on that game? why did u not address it?

@ThinkerThemer

Жыл бұрын

You're right, we should've. This topic was much more personal to Maggie as she is Venezuelan and other elements in games have been blind spots for us in the past. We continue to educate ourselves and learn about others'experiences of games... and are getting better at speaking up as time goes on. Thanks for raising this & I hope you also raise this with the designers and publishers of games too.

I'd love to see you guys review Kitara if you ever get your hands on a copy

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

I ALMOST picked it up at the boxing day sales but somehow ended up not grabbing it! I watched a play of it during Essen spiel and I wasn't sure how it would go with Maggie being area control... but it looked like it is a lot of game in a small box!

Nice review! I was thinking about it for solo and glad (for several reasons now) that I didn't pick it up. As for #team ? Looking at my recently played games - Feast for Odin, Robinson Crusoe, Lewis & Clark, Gugong, and Nusfjord -- I think that clearly puts me in #teamthemer. LOL

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Lol! That's ok we can still be friends 😂 Thanks for the reminder to get Gugong to the table as well... what player count have you been playing it at? (we have played it once two player and thought it might need more players to really shine....)

@ematorose

3 жыл бұрын

@@ThinkerThemer I've only played solo - as I have to with all but a couple of games (Wingspan & Viticulture). I do think Gugong would be better with more than two, but not sure. It's ok solo, not my favorite but good.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Oh, yes I only asked because I didn't know it had a solo mode! Interesting. Definitely looking forward to playing more of that game after the beautiful deluxe edition turned up in the mail 🥰 Looking forward to discovering that third game you can play together in 2021...... 😎

@ematorose

3 жыл бұрын

@@ThinkerThemer Yes it has a decent AI bot "Ming" that has his own cards and basically blocks and gets moves along via his cards. It's an ok challenge. Ooooh the deluxe version - game envy. I have the expansion ordered and can't wait to see what it adds.

@ematorose

3 жыл бұрын

*Oops -- that's "Meng" - the Meng bot. My copy of Pànjūn is arriving in 4 days! I am curious how you all find the game together. Maybe a review?

Thank you ladies for the review! You are doing great! I can understand that the theme could offend some people. You should therefore also try to avoid the game Archipelago. That game is going even stronger in that direction.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much for the kind feedback Reini. We will stop playing games about colonization, it doesn't bring us joy and there are so many other wonderful themes to enjoy! Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment 😊

I'm enjoying your thoughtful and thorough reviews, and in this case I am glad you addressed the ethical issues with theme. I haven't yet purchased GWT, and was considering Maracaibo instead, but this review settled it. Looking forward to moving some cows! ;-)

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much Erik. 😊

@brammartens5156

2 жыл бұрын

Junto con saludarte

If Pfister/Capstone truly wanted it to have a Pirates of The Caribbean vibe then they should have went for that whole larger than life aesthetic of something like ‘Jamaica’ or ‘Rattle, Battle, Grab The Loot’. Instead they went for a more serious tone but without engaging with it on a thematic or mechanical level. Talking about it in the rulebook then just comes across as cheap. Lets talk about it within the game. Would love to get your opinions on Endeavour: Age of Sail? That game actually has a slavery mechanic but it is implemented very interestingly. If one player chooses to go into slavery with some large industrial benefits, then other players can decide to work together to abolish slavery within the game; punishing the/any slavers. The beauty is that this is an organic, ongoing decision and perhaps you, playing the game may actually consider delving into it which really challenges you.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Agree completely. Actually we just picked up Endeavor to check this out... but it is a little lower on the list for a review as we are now keen to steer clear of these types of themes for a moment... need something a bit more joyful, particularly with all that is happening in the world. Thanks for joining this conversation and taking the time to express your opinions. Wishing you a lovely weekend ahead. ☺

I think that, much like you have to suspend your disbelief to enjoy a lot of fantasy settings, you need to suspend your awareness of the ugly reality behind many historical settings in order to enjoy a game (Mombasa, Pax Pamir, Brass: Birmingham, that Coffee Traders KS, anything with a Western theme, etc). I completely understand and support anyone's inability or unwillingness to do that for any particular game, and I'm really impressed that you put your moral comfort to the side in order to explore the mechanics for this review. I'm not sure I could have done that. Happy New Year, ladies! Are you still stuck behind border closures?

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

I think that the setting is one thing (being set it a dark part of history) whereas your role in that setting and being rewarded for things that are hurtful to others is another. For example, in Pax Pamir you play from the perspective of Afghan leaders, and while the time was probably devastating for many it doesn't feel like you are an aggressor taking something that isn't yours without any recognition of that fact. However, we also fully recognise there are many more half told stories that would give others the same feeling and we are open to learning and educating ourselves more about these. For me I would rather be even more aware and choose more thoughtful designs than learn to ignore the parts that hurt or offend others (which included Maggie in this case & I am sad for buying a game that made her feel upset). Thanks for your supportive words about the review though, it is never easy to speak your mind on these topics. Happy new year to you too, we are in QLD but at least for now it seems like we can get a transit pass to get through NSW to get home but we will see. Hope everything gets under control quickly!

@dahakhamoontouched4133

3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely, the role you play is very important. You guys did good by highlighting these issues, I'm sorry if I implied otherwise. The more they are brought up, the more sensitive designers will be to them. Fortunately, there are plenty of games without these colonial themes and surely one of them will bring the mechanical brilliance that Maracaibo has without that baggage.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely! Please no need to apologise at all, very open to having a conversation about these topics... I appreciate hearing your thoughts. Here's to more games in 2021 and the kick off of kickstarter season ☺

The same thing happen with the game Field Commander Rommel. People were offended by the presence of SS troops that were infamous by their war crimes during the invasion of Poland and France. My opinion is that no one should feel offended when historical themed games are not accurate or races are underrepresented. Pirates of the Caribbean is a fantasy, but it’s setting is also historical. I don’t see people been offended by the portrayal of pirates, even when many people died and many women were raped by pirates! I see this game as a fantasy, no different than pirates of the Caribbean. The most famous pirate of PR was “el pirata Cofresi” and he is mostly portrayed by artists as white. I think that what happened in the past is just the way it is. What counts is not how you see the past but more like what you learned from it.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for sharing your opinion & doing so in a way that is respectful of ours. You sound like someone who is highly educated on the subject matter of many games - we feel we are not and I think many people, like us, learn a lot about history from a game. Maracaibo does not feel fantasy at all when you play, perhaps because of the required focus on alliances with the invading countries. A concerning feature is that this game makes you feel good about that, which sanitises the genocide that happened and in our opinion is insensitive to people who are from those places (it really frustrated and upset Maggie for example). Underrepresenting people and races implies they don't matter - growing up as women and gay, we will always be advocates for representation. As we continue this journey I am sure that there are so many games in our collection and games that we will play that are hypocritical to this view (as per your pirate example) but it is important to us to start somewhere and to keep listening and educating ourselves to our own biases, and to speak authentically about our opinions.

@nydaloth

3 жыл бұрын

@@ThinkerThemer Yes, of course your opinion should be respected. My point is that history is a way to learn about the mistakes of the past. I also wandered why an euro game about piracy and colonialism was named after Venezuelan Maracaibo. Usually euro game themes are not very important, so is very sad that when an euro manages to be thematic it fails to be more sensible conserving controversial issues. I’m sure that Alexander’s intention was not to offend players. I also hope that he will be more careful in the future. Thanks for your great review.

This confirms my concerns, that is a GWT ++. I don't need the added complexity. I also heard that the campaign part is unnecessary. Happy to try it if a friend has it, but I will not buy it.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Glad it was useful! Thanks Mirko for taking the time to comment ☺

Great review (as usual). I still haven't got this to the table. Fair comments about the theme and history of that time/region. It's a while since I've played GWT, but it has native tents/reservations that you take possesion of doesn't it? (I can't remember the thematic reasoning behind taking those tokens, if any). Perhaps this is one of the reasons I like Spirit Island so much, for it's refreshing change of helping the natives fight off the invading/colonising forces, albeit in a fantasy land, but with real invading nationalities if you play with them.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

100% Richard thanks for bringing that up about GWT. That irked us when we played it but it was never explained away thematically (or we don't recall reading it at least) and the action was not really clear about what you were doing - but can absolutely see the issue here if it is as you describe. Have heard Mombasa has some similar issues which we have not played but I hope the industry can move on from these themes.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Oh also forgot to say YES about Spirit Island. We did not like the game but love love love the theme.

@jameslombardi9059

3 жыл бұрын

@@ThinkerThemer - the action was 'trade with the Indians'. But I'm not sure why you as the player went around collecting their teepees. I'm guessing they decided having an extra component, some kind of trade goods, was unnecessary, so they gave the teepee tiles double duty. Pretty weird, and something everyone I've played it with (admittedly only 3 people) has remarked upon. Edit: and yes, the manual is extremely brief regarding the action, with zero thematic explanation.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for clarifying this James. Curiouser and curiouser. 🤔

I agree on the problematic theme. Mombasa is worse in my opinion (also a pfister), but I guess that depends on your perpective. I agree with Maggie that this game feels disjointed and very mechinical. I played it twice and ended up selling it. I didn't feel like putting in the effort like you guys did. Great review!

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure we would have without the channel, Maggie was very upset and put off by it before we got started. I have read into the Mombasa theme and we will not be buying that one. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this topic ☺

@PimpMyFlop

3 жыл бұрын

@@ThinkerThemer I played Mombasa as well and like Maraciabo it is mechanically a great game. You can also ignore the theme in that game, but it did leave a bad taste in my mouth afterwards. I mean why chose this theme for a mechanical game if you can stick another theme on it that is not offensive? The same applies for Maraciabo. He could have made it a pirates of the carabian theme if he wanted to, right?

I just played a beginners version with the expansion and I felt like the theme was a lot better handled. For one we didn’t really have an option to side with the Europeans beyond some specific cards. It was always supporting a rebellion in an occupied town and removing the European cube for points. There was more variety of characters in the cards. Some “regular “ natives, and some a bit more stereotypical like healers and rebels. It ended up that we felt a lot more like pirate free-lancers who pushed against the oppressors. That said there were still weird elements that were still off, like the exploration track that was very “game mechanic” neutral but the root is still bad. That said, it did still feel like the designers really weren’t aware of how bad the history was, and I don’t think that ignorance reflects well on them.

Hi Amy, Maggie another good and interesting review. I can understand Maggie saying she is not that interested in hanging onto this. From your review I can give this a pass - I can't buy every game! This weekend I have ordered Targi, Manhattan project: Energy Empire, !862, Jaws of the Lion and The Crew! That will do me for a bit.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Whoohoo new games!!! Oh man we keep setting Targi up and not playing it... but everyone keeps telling us to play. This is the week!!! Thanks for the reminder. We just finished a live stream of the crew as well. The BGA implementation is really great. Enjoy the sweet smell of new cardboard 😁

@paulallison6418

3 жыл бұрын

@@ThinkerThemer I play Race for the Galaxy on BGA and Chess a little. Targi is a good 2P puzzle, it will be a good challenge for you two, who can make the best tableau. The theme is weak though and the rules booklet translation from the German isn't perfect.

Godfried the Noorman attacked my city and plundered it numerous of times. Still Raiders of the north sea is my favorite game. Without asking for a correction in the rulebook. Maybe we should embrace history for what it gave us not for what it took away. I will play this game without remorce for the person I am.

great review! I just bought it being inspired. I hope you would check Rider of Northern Sea, Paladins of western kingdoms - very thematic and strong mechanic

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

We haven't played Raiders but we did play Paladins just once with a friend's copy. It was a little low interaction for us but the mechanics were really wonderful. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment ☺

Great review as usual! This one was one of my favorites I played for the first time in 2020. (The other top 5 being Vindication, Yokohama, Oracle of Delphi and The Crew). I've only played it solo and It did take about 3 plays for it to completely click. The most unintuitive thing is the combat for sure. It makes absolutely no sense thematically so I didn't really understand it and mostly avoided it for the first few plays haha. That being said it's definitely not thematic which as you said helps it a bit to detach because wow really what a poor choice for a theme. What actually bothered me most about it wasn't the underrepresentation of the natives or the conquering but how happy the natives in the artwork looked. It made me pretty uncomfortable to the point where I'm pretty sure in almost ten games I've never recruited one haha. The writings of Bartolomé de las Casas were legitimately among the most horrifying things I've ever read and I don't think anyone who really read about the history of Colonialism in the Caribbean would think this was an ok theme (as a sidebar I'm realizing right now just how many books I've read about the atrocities of Colonialism, yeesh). The worst part of the game besides the theme are definitely the player boards for sure and they were such a barrier to the enjoyment for me that I actually ended up photocopying the player boards, laminated them and played it with a disc supply and marking off the upgrades with a dry erase marker. Once I confirmed I liked the game I did end up upgrading to the acrylic overlays from Etsy. I did enjoy the campaign but it was actually not for the reason you'd expect. I liked how adding new things to the board threw off the unrelenting rhythm of the AI and made it more interesting to find ways to beat it. I have 8 plays logged and only the first two werent the highest difficulty. My only loss was when I chose to finish a rather involved story card to move along the campaign at the detriment of being efficient. I really want to play it against real opponents especially because I have never really felt I've been able to try the cards that add assistants to the board as a strategy and id like to explore those. Sorry Another long winded one as usual haha but I really have explored this game more than most I've played lately. I still need to try Great Western Trail!

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Aaron for sharing your thoughts on this one! Playing against the AI at highest difficulty through the campaign is impressive... it is a challenging game for sure. I like what you did for the player boards...very clever! I've wanted the easy board overlays for great Western trail for soooo long! (Similar issues but at least they r not stacked) Maracaibo has so many things that I do appreciate mechanically that I wish it was a different theme but we ultimately decided to move it on. Making Maggie upset is reserved for when I'm winning not when we get the game out (hahaha I'm joking, kinda... she hates losing...) 😊Thanks again for taking the time to write!

Thanks so much for getting into this especially after finding out the theme. I really had problems knowing the theme, so I figured I just wouldn't get this. Then I heard he was doing something to address the theme and started to rethink it. Now hearing how divorced the theme is from the gameplay makes this a total turn-off. Why he would pick this theme given how little it seemed to matter really just highlights how insensitive the choice was, because it seems, with some brainstorming, you could have changed the theme. May not have been malicious but it still seems tone deaf IMO. I no longer think that fixing the theme will really matter to me if the theme really isn't reflected in game play anyway. Wonderful video, as always. You're starting the new year off right!

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Omar, thank you, this comment really made us think a lot about how everyone says it is OK to play because it is not thematic but you are 100% right that this is even more reason not to use this theme. We hadn't thought about it that way so I want to say thank you for that new perspective. We were truly unsure about how we would be received saying how it made us feel so really appreciate your comment & support. Amy & Maggie

I really appreciate this perspective, guys! I actually looked at this game a few weeks ago but assumed it was from like the early 2000s because of the theme, lol. It's... uninspired. Will stick to Great Western Trail and skip this one, expansion or no... there's so many other awesome games to play in 2021!

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you Emilia... agree 100% and really appreciate your comment of support on this one. 💕

Thanks for the thoughtful review! It's unfortunate that the theme is problematic. I saw in a bgg thread (boardgamegeek.com/thread/2330909/article/33589206) that one of Pfister's inspirations for the theme/setting was a computer game from the late 1980s: Sid Meier's Pirates. It's too bad that Pfister didn't see the potential issue with taking a computer game from the '80s and translating it into a modern board game 30 years later. I wonder if the game would've gotten less criticism if it removed specific geographic and historical references similar to what Anno 1800 did. Maybe that's one reason why his new game, Cloud Age, is not based in a real-world setting. I still haven't gotten Maracaibo to the table. GWT is one of my favorite games, so I purchased Maracaibo along with the metal coins as soon as it was available at my FLGS. But I may end up getting rid of it. With limited shelf space and so many good games out there, it's not hard to cull a game for lesser offenses than Maracaibo's problematic theme.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Luke you always have the most interesting facts about games! Thanks for sharing this. Yes I think it were truly pirates he could've leaned into this more rather than this very strange hybrid. I do hope he can address this in new games. Also... Kickstarter season! Here 💸 We 💸 Go 💸

@Luke_L

3 жыл бұрын

@@ThinkerThemer Yes, I just backed Darwin's Journey! The price initially looked steep, but they're including metal coins, some upgraded components, and an expansion, so I think it's a reasonably good deal. And there are stretch goals to come. Woohoo! P.S. I saw you announce your retirement in the chat of one of Rahdo's videos! Congrats! :D

Thank you for the review and discussion. I find your different views on games so refreshing. Finally a game that I have played several times myself over the last months. Some thoughts: I have myself problems with the theme. You are competely right. We had heated discussions about it in the group. I think we Europeans are still way behind on these sensitive subjects. I believe that it is not correct to reiterate this "romantic" view on that time period. Fortunately the theme doesnt come through that strong: as you said while talking about the story mode, you are so heavily occupied with the different levers, that you realy forget what you are actualy doing - and this is also the danger in these games I think. The theme gets accepted without reflection. But then the question is; if we know about the issues and the historic reality, are we still allowed to enjoy the gamePLAY? I dont know what to think, really. A word about the fighting: I believe you are not attacking indigenous villages, but viallages and cities founded by european powers (How they wehere founded in the first place is another question). So I think you as a privateer/pirat are attacking different nations while changing alliance from time to time. So you are fighting against the European powers in a way. ***SPOILER AHEAD*** None the less, I fear the next session where we have to load a silver-ship for Europe. Where does this silver come from?! boy oh boy... I didnt know that there is an expansion on the horizon. So thank you for the info! Cheers

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Jonas for this very thoughtful comment and for sharing your opinion on the game theme. I (Amy) am really struggling since making this video with keeping it in our collection. I ask myself the same question about the gameplay. It is excellent (IMO) but as you point out I don't really want to be able to ignore the theme as these things should not be ignored/need reflection. I did always assume the theme was more in-fighting between the European nations, but fighting over something that was taken is still icky. Thanks for a great discussion, and Happy New Year ☺

So, similar to my theme "complaint" in Merv being a boring theme, this one is even worse. As you eventually got to, there is zero theme in the game and just the mechanics (same as Mombasa.) So, I really don't understand why if you're a designer and not going to have a theme, you pick something that will upset people or cause controversy that makes them not want to play. Have something silly like Bonfire, make an alt history like scythe, or just make it "some time in the past, sailing around these islands" without calling out the negative aspect for no reason. I get some games want to have a historical narrative and such, but you have to actually present one. I am able to play the mechanics and it never really occurs to move that I'm doing anything other than playing cards and moving cube countries and milk chocolate crunches, but I can see how that would be an issue for others/you. Anyways, onto the game. I actually had the opportunity to play this at BGG Fall 2019, but would have had to wait in line. I decided it wasn't worth waiting around because I heard blackout was kind of eh and I, unlike the rest of the world, really disliked GWT after 2 plays especially with the comparisons of this to GWT. I thought Pfister was a 1 hit wonder for me with Mombasa. I finally was able to play in August to see if my suspicions were correct, and they definitely were not! I really enjoy this game and find it pretty breezy. The card/hand management is really neat with the decision space to hire, reserve workers or use them for their symbols. But, you never have to become too attached to your hand because you'll get something else you can play with. Definitely agree that there are lot of different strategy avenues. When I was taught the game (by 2 people with around 5 plays each), they said they had never seen anyone do too well on the exploration track. So, I leaned into that and won :) But, as you said, this is definitely one where you can have fun making decisions and playing through, then realize you're losing terribly. For me this is great compared to GWT and I actually find it easier and more intuitive despite GWT actually having a decent thematic connection to the mechanics. GWT has a bit more negative feedback in the game coupled with light negative interaction that I really don't like. Pay another player to go this way because they have a route chokehold or pay the board to go the other...struggle for resources either way! Also, the order the workers come out might over dictate which strategy you have to take. Anyways, I know I'm one of 2 people that don't like GWT, no need to tell me how terribly wrong I am :D Thanks for the review! Sorry for being so long winded apparently lol.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Matthew for sharing your thoughts and experiences with this and GWT. Agree completely with your points aside from the bit about not liking GWT as much hehehe - but that's mainly because our gaming group love a bit of negative player interaction.... paying "tolls" makes us laugh with frustration every time. Really enjoyed reading this thanks again for taking the time to write it ☺

thank for addressing the problematic theme. I also didn't want to buy it because of that colonial theme. Spirit Island is a better concept for me.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you Fred for taking the time to comment. I agree that Spirit Island is a wonderful theme 😊

I have a similar problem with the colonial and cattle running theme of Great Western Trail. I've pretty much given up on Pfister due to his themes, no matter how good his mechanics are. I have Isle of Skye and Blackout Hong Kong (the latter of which has a tasteful theme chosen by the publisher), and those are enough for me. I do have some games with colonial themes like San Juan, so I sometimes wonder if it's hypocrisy for me to give classic games a pass but expect more from recent publications? I also think San Juan is significantly more abstract and ahistorical than even Maracaibo.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Yes we often ask the same of ourselves, where do you draw the line, is it hypocritical etc - I think the main thing is to be open, empathetic and educated about the sensitivities, and be kind to yourself too in that we are all always on a learning journey. Thanks for taking the time to comment and watch 💕

Idk how much you moderated this comments section but I think it says a lot about yall that you have attracted the kind of audience that doesn't react in a toxic manner to bringing up problematic colonialism themes in board games. Unfortunately... I have been in too many online communities where people get really angry about people expressing the fact that these types of themes can be very problematic if not handled with respect.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you Tyler that really means a lot to us. Since starting the channel I've only hidden two users I think, but they were more abusive than argumentative. Let's just say that earlier on they probably weeded themselves out and decided our channel was not for them. We feel so lucky to have the community we have here, everyone is very kind to one another. Perhaps a bit of self selection bias if you want to watch two women (and two lesbians no less;)) talk about the hobby... and if that's it, we wouldn't have it any other way 😁 Glad to have you here and thanks for watching 😊

@tylerbrown9797

3 жыл бұрын

@@ThinkerThemer "Perhaps a bit of self selection bias if you want to watch two women (and two lesbians no less;)) talk about the hobby... and if that's it, we wouldn't have it any other way 😁" I ABSOLUTELY don't want to minimize the bullshit you both probs have to deal with in terms of sexism and homophobia especially because I'm a cis white dude who has been able to float through life fitting in wherever I wanted to without really having to ever think about it, but if the fact that you two are lesbian women talking about board games and that INSTANTLY turns certain toxic categories of people away from entering the community you bring together, that is.... kind of a super power. Irrespective of gender or sexuality or w.e tho you both have really well thought out opinions and seem like genuinely nice people and it is rare to find channels that talk about crunchy games that still care about theme. Thanks again for having a kickass channel!

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much Tyler. We were terrified to put ourselves out there when we started and it's people like you that allow us to feel safe to be our authentic selves. Have a wonderful week ahead ❤

I hope Pfister makes things right. I like the mechanics but the theme gives me pause when I’m bringing it to the table.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Jonathan, we hope he does do. Appreciate you taking the time to comment and your support.

Spot on re: the hugely problematic theme. Thank you for how you handled it in the video too. I hope Pfister does a great job on the expansion in ways that seriously balances the scales for representation, and equity. As I was watching, I couldn't help but think of Santa Maria, an otherwise fantastic game with an equally problematic base game. In response to the totally deserved negativity this got, the American Kingdoms expansion introduced the Mayans as a playable civilization, where the person playing as the Mayans actively tries to subvert the efforts of the invading and pillaging Spanish. It also included a much more prominent history for players to be introduced to not just what happened during that time, but it attempts to highlight the indigenous peoples' perspective as well. If Pfister manages something as substantial as Santa Maria's expansion, it may help some. I hope he really takes it to heart and does his best too, because there's otherwise a really good game in there.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for taking the time for writing this... we have not played Santa Maria (another one on our long list of 'to buy' games) but had no idea about these issues or that it had been somewhat addressed by the designer. I hope Pfister comes through with thoughtful and sincere changes as well, and hope the industry can get better too. Honestly, we were not sure how this review would be received and it is really lovely to read the comments here. Thanks again for watching and your support. 💕

Thanks for mentioning the problematic colonial theme of the game. I really liked the game from this designer, but I can't stand the colonial theme from a few of his game.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you Benoit 🙂

I appreciate your take on this and that you both were kind not call this game what it is. White Male designers need to wake up from their 'naivete'. I found you thanks to Monique and Naveen! I will take a miss on this game.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Stitch and very glad to have you here... Monique and Naveen are the best. Thanks for taking the time to comment ☺

The game erased the native cultures. You shouldn’t have to be from the culture or know someone from the culture to objective.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Yep that is a fair comment, 100% 😔

Mombasa is even worse in theme.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Have heard / read and will avoid for this reason. 😔

In my opinion, Pfister has created too many of these problematic games. Mombasa, Maracaibo and even Great Western Trail have unnecessary themes of colonialism and slavery and Native People are made invisible in all of these. When I read his comments to this criticism and given that these games keep coming from him, I just feel like he does actually believe that he is not doing anything wrong. That's why I would not buy it or pass it on if I owned it. There are plenty of great mechanical games out there that are unproblematic or even deal with these topics in better ways.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

We have not read too many comments from him on his other games, but if this is the case then that is disappointing 😞 Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us Yannik.

You have my respects on the theme issue. Alexander Pfister tends to racism and he is coward to admit it. He is the only designer whose games are under question for their theme. The fact that he needs to explain his games sets him suspicious a priori. I can see the same problem with cloud age theme. No reason to refer to Mombasa, right? And that is why he will never get a single penny from me.

@ThinkerThemer

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Gerasimos. We don't know too much about CloudAge theme?

You're being way too persnickety with the theme. It wasn't any intention to offend anyone. You could pick holes in every theme if you wanted to.