Jomboy's video on this shows that the runner at 3rd didn't tag up FWIW

@rynodawg

Ай бұрын

Came here to say that! Jomboy had video that showed runner on 3rd clearly never tagging up, umps missed that one.

@mse326

Ай бұрын

@@rynodawg Really only HP ump missed it. The other 2 had to be looking elsewhere so they shouldn't be able to see that. Maybe, the 1B ump out of the corner of her eye, but really isn't her call to make

@hippokrampus2838

Ай бұрын

It's odd that that camera angle isn't available in this video. Certainly adds another wrinkle (although Lindsay figured that the runner left early anyway). Makes me think that the coach really didn't realize that the catch was called in real time and not after conferencing.

@rynodawg

Ай бұрын

@@mse326 that’s true. it’s a tough call because there was no time to get “in line” to see both, but ump has to glance over there immediately after other ump signaled catch.

@jeverette1

Ай бұрын

@@hippokrampus2838 Yeah Lindsay did a great job in this video. As always. Just thought it was interesting that we had an angle showing he never tagged up.

Kudos for the defense. They kept trying to get runners out until they got enough out to end the inning.

@penguin44ca

Ай бұрын

Tag everyone!

You don’t get an RBI for an infield lineout. The run scores on the infielders throwing the ball around, no credit to the batter.

@mrbow50001

Ай бұрын

credit to the batter for buying the time

@MwD676

Ай бұрын

Nothing in the scoring rules says you can’t get an RBI on an infield line out. Fair batted ball is caught. R3 advances home on the play. The fielder’s choice is to play on a different runner. No error was made. The final out is a tag that is not a force or reverse-force DP, so it should be an RBI. (Of course if the umpire upheld what appears to be an appeal, then there would be no RBI because no run would have scored. )

There is a camera view of the runner at third. He was leading off and never went back to third to tag up. O got a free run.

I'm deeply confused why the runner from second started very slowly jogging to third. Either stay at second or sprint for third. What was he doing instead?

@MwD676

Ай бұрын

He doesn’t know either. Confusion…

@williamgibbs3199

Ай бұрын

I believe that he saw U2 pumping his fist when making the catch call and thought he was out.

Lets make this very simple. If the ball was caught, the batter is out. The throws to second and first were safe due to the runners getting back in time. The throw to third base would also be an out because the runner never returned to the base.

I don't think the manager was arguing the actual play, but the "conversation" that the ump continued with the catcher

The two base umps nailed their job. The plate ump blew it. His first priority on the batted ball was the watch the runner at third. Runner never tagged up and he allowed the run instead of calling him out in the appeal to third. This is clear from the camera angle that shows he never returned to the bag (which unfortunately wasn't included in this video).

@FJBLGB-hs4xx

Ай бұрын

The first base umpire caused the entire confusion on this play. Far from "nailing" the job.

@CurtisBooksMusic

Ай бұрын

@@FJBLGB-hs4xx dafuq you talking about???

@TeranRealtor

Ай бұрын

@@FJBLGB-hs4xx What did the first base ump do wrong? The batter was already out (caught line drive - clearly signaled by 2b ump). First base ump called the runner safe, getting back to the bag - he signaled that the first baseman was off the bag. What call do you think the 1b ump should have made?

@donsheffler

Ай бұрын

@@FJBLGB-hs4xx The ump confused no one.

Has any manager ever thought to just charge out and compliment the umpire for the work they had been doing all season. Maybe even compliment their uniforms and general grooming?

@hooimeijerf

Ай бұрын

I wish 😂

@austin.draude

Ай бұрын

The umpires don't get compliments for their uniforms on this one... They're not wearing blue like CB Bucknor 😜😜

@PhilKsDashcam

Ай бұрын

I read an umpires' autobiography once and a manager did do that because he wanted to get thrown out of the game thinking it'll fire his team up.

I wonder if this is a situation where it wasn't 100% clear if/what was being appealed, with a runner approaching third is it unmistakable that the defense was appealing the tag up and not trying for a force on the runner?

@samhill526

Ай бұрын

Nevermind, just rewatched and saw the second little appeal after the tag on the runner. Seems like that should have been clear

@MwD676

Ай бұрын

F5 clearly wants an out for tagging 3rd. But I do not think it is clear that he is appealing R3. He may just be asking for a force out of R2, as you originally stated.

Great breakdown Lindsay -- just wow.

That's a tricky one for the HP ump because in this situation it is in an area where the they MAY have to make a call, and then see if the the runner tagged up.

The second base umpire made the out signal twice, twice. How could anyone miss that? Then he did the safe call twice, twice. How much more do you need? I'll never understand runners leaving a base when the situation is unclear. I tell all my players, if you are unsure stay on the base until time is called.

@CommonSense823

Ай бұрын

Funny. The first base umpire and the home plate umpire both missed it because they were watching to see if the batter was safe at first.

@thomashendricks9774

Ай бұрын

@@CommonSense823 this is also exasperated by the fact that it’s a 3 person crew. I’ve Umped by myself for 8 & 10u and two persons for 12u and above. It’s hard to keep track when things like this happen. You sometimes get caught up in one aspect, especially behind the plate.

@CommonSense823

Ай бұрын

@@thomashendricks9774 That was my thought. From other reporting on this, the HP umpire said he was watching for RL Interference. My first thought was why would you even look for that on a ball hit to 2B. He clearly botched the responsibility to watch the tag up at 3rd when the 3B umpire rotated to make the call at second. The 1B umpire further exasperated things by calling the batter safe at first. It's pretty clear that HP didn't realize the throw to third was an appeal on the tag up and called the force out. No idea why the run would have counted in either scenario. It shouldn't have.

@bethhentges

Ай бұрын

Well the run counted because the third out was not a force out and the runner touched the plate before the tag. The “appeal” at third seemed clear to me.

@CommonSense823

Ай бұрын

@@bethhentges yet it fooled two of the three umpires on the field.

I think the point was more that he was letting them know they f'd up, regardless of who it benefited. Kinda like the batter that went off on Angel a while back and let him know he was screwing up the calls for both sides.

I'm still not sure if the call at third was 1) it was not a clear appeal that the scoring runner left early or 2) it was a clear appeal but the ump ruled he did not leave early.

Great analysis. Great job by the defense. (Mostly) A great job by the offense. Might R3 have failed to tag up? Sure: entirely possible. That is the PU's responsibility, but so is the call on the sinking line drive up until the point that U3 takes it. This is one of the holes in our mechanics, even with 4 umpires. PU has responsibility on batter balls up until a base umpire chases, or takes the catch call in his area. Its a tough ask to go from following the batted ball to checking the tag up when we see a partner grab it on the infield. It's not impossible, its just tough.

Damn, Jen’s crew is getting THEIR 💰💰 worth this season! The action is finding them often.

@basilaplant

Ай бұрын

Mario coin sound effect dot mp3

@SLC-Smudge42

Ай бұрын

@@basilaplant😂😂 I didn’t walk, I RAN into that one!

How is there not an umpire, off the field, watching the game?!

I don't think the R3 appeal is obvious enough. With R2 approaching third, the assumption should be that the play is on that runner. An appeal would probably require a throw over from the pitcher after the play is over. At the very least, F5 should point at R3/home plate with his throwing hand so it doesn't look like he's just showing possession of the ball.

Assuming the runner at 3rd didn’t tag up…Out 2 is the catch. Out 3 is the force out at 3rd..they threw over and the 3rd baseman stepped on the bag…not the tag on the runner from 2nd to 3rd. Since the runner who was at 3rd was forced, he didn’t score.

If it is an RBI it is also a sac fly which doesn't count as an out for him

The manager makes it worse?? The plate ump was getting in the face of the catcher and shaking his finger and making it all about him. This is the problem with umps today. They all want the entire game to be about them. Literally no one watches baseball for the umpires. No one.

He got run because of the umpire/catcher conversation. That conversation was why he came out, the play before is what he talked about. Lindsey is the best at these, I'm just on the other side of her call on this one. The Jomboy breakdown reveals the conversation and also shows R3 never tagged. After Skip got tossed he then told the hp umpire that he effed up, because he did. He's got tag responsibility on that play.

Que Earl Weaver. U are here for one thing.

The jomboy video was great. The ejection was caused by the clashing of the toxic egos of the plate umpire, catcher and the manager.

@hammerhiem75

Ай бұрын

Not really the catcher, he was asking the Umpire to stop barking and get on with the game.

you are the best in the business Lindsay

You can pretty clearly tell the umpire went after the catcher. Don't know what the catcher said, but he was calm and civil while the umpire was in his face (even wagged his finger at him) like a school principal. Manager came out to say, "Don't talk to my catcher like that" and the umpire got offended and threw him out. Atrocious professionalism.

If you just assume the umpire fucked up you’ll usually be right.

Could this have been a pseudo 4th out situation, where the umps (for some reason) didn't rule on the R3 tag up, then counted the R2 tag out as the third out, which happened after R3 "scored", and then never addressed the R3 tag up because the inning was over and the defense couldn't then make an "official" appeal at 3rd?

Addlepated reactionary alert at 5:33

Something similar happened to me in a D3 game. We ended up with a triple play.

They did not properly appeal the runner leaving early at 3b, then the tagged the runner which was the 3rd out and that is why the run scored before the 3rd out. Now to take the run off the board the defense could properly appeal the runner at 3rd leaving early for a “4th” out

Kudos to this crew for getting this done correctly. As far as leaving 3rd too early, this is such a bang bang play, I don’t think the PU had the time to see and/or hear the catch/no catch AND to see if R3 left early. JMO but, I don’t think the best of the best MLB Umpires could have made that determination. Line drives can be downright nasty and this situation is the perfect example of it. Thank God MLB doesn’t allow players to use aluminum bats. Otherwise we’d have plays like this on a daily basis, and the fences would have to be moved back another 50ft. GREAT JOB by this crew! 😊

@carykizuka6814

Ай бұрын

I am not disagreeing with you but making a (related) comment. MLB crew would have had 4-men. U3 would have been in a position to SOMEWHAT see R3 and F4's catch AND U2 make the out call (not linear, but "in line"). Based on the sequencing of the videos and when R3 appeared to have crossed home plate, F3 just received the ball from F6, who immediately received it from F4, so I don't think R3 tagged up. Why would he/How can he take his lead and his secondary lead, freeze on the contact, head back to 3b, touch it and then try to score when the ball hasn't obviously touched the ground nor left the infield.

@donsheffler

Ай бұрын

@@carykizuka6814 You are right that the only way the R3 crosses the plate at that point is if he starts 15 feet off third and never goes back. And yes, the third base ump's main role at the moment the 2nd baseman makes the catch is to check R3, who immediately took off for home. So yes it would have been a routine call for a 4-ump crew. 3rd base ump would have called R3 out.

The only thing you forgot to mention is that once the catch is called, there are 2 outs, and this is now a timing play. As long as that runner in third tagged up and advanced home and touched the plate before the tag out for the third out, that run scores.

@lastdance2099

Ай бұрын

Yeah, but he did not tag up, he left early -- way early.

@GoodFellaMB

Ай бұрын

Definitely!

I don’t think that was properly appealed at 3rd. I believe usually after the play is over the pitcher then needs to step off and throw over to the base to appeal if the runner left early however there are 3 outs so maybe this would be the 4th out appeal?? See Nats. Also I think both managers are complete idiots that need to be fired and also the stupidity of the runner on 2nd needs to keep him in the minors permanently.

@donsheffler

Ай бұрын

The ball was in play. First base threw to third base to put out R3 who they all knew had not tagged. The only time you put the pitcher on the mound at the rubber to appeal is if the ball is dead. At that point the umpire can say "play" in order to make the ball live again so an appeal can be made. Plate ump just never saw R3 so he couldn't call him out. But, for literally no discernable reason, R2 decided to jog towards third. Most confused player on the field and he made himself the third out.

This is a case of absolutely NOBODY but the umpiring crew knowing what’s going on, then ofc only the umpires get blamed for this. Both teams should be ashamed but especially green teams catcher and manager

@DDAUmps

Ай бұрын

The plate umpires conduct left a lot to be desired.

@tw1nn319

Ай бұрын

@@ringosk1 and you know this because you were there?

@tw1nn319

Ай бұрын

@@DDAUmps i dont find anything wrong with his conduct, simply matching the energy of the ones talking to him. respect is a 2 way street

@ringosk1

Ай бұрын

@@tw1nn319 added the clip

@CommonSense823

Ай бұрын

The first base umpire had no clue what was going on and led to this fiasco.

Could the defense not do a 4th out appeal to negate the run?

@MwD676

Ай бұрын

Yes.

@donsheffler

Ай бұрын

Yes BUT it appears no one was watching to see R3 tag up.

@3:23, it does look like the runner at 3rd was turning back to the base.

@donsheffler

Ай бұрын

There actually is another video view, and he did not head back to third; he went home as if the ball hit the ground.

I'm sick of all of these players crying over every pitch they think is wrong. When did MLB players become such *itches?

When the first base umpire mechanics were a safe call followed by showing the first baseman was pulled off the bag by the throw, everything went to hell. The offense had to assume by that mechanic that the batter was safe at first and the other runners needed to advance.

@mse326

Ай бұрын

That isn't a "pulled" off mechanic. That is just an off the base mechanic. And that was proper because it was close as to when the 1B caught the ball and R1 got back to the bag, so you make the safe call and say the fielder was off the bag.

@CommonSense823

Ай бұрын

@@mse326 he was standing on the fucking bag. It wasn’t close, and he wasn't safe due to the first baseman being off the bag. The ONLY reason to use that mechanic is to call the batter runner safe at first. She had zero clue the batter was already out. You literally had one umpire calling the batter out and another calling him safe at first because the first baseman was off the bag. She caused the confusion.

@FJBLGB-hs4xx

Ай бұрын

That's exactly how I saw it. Everything was fine until the first base umpire made that call, conflicting with the third base umpires call of the batter being out. You can see the base runner on first start to go after she makes that call. She confused the entire situation. The tagging player was never in question. He was standing on the bag when that throw came in.

@babababad

Ай бұрын

​@@CommonSense823 so in that situation you want U1 to make no mechanic, because it's so obvious R3 is safe on 1st no call should be necessary?

@CommonSense823

Ай бұрын

@@babababad Call the tagging runner that is standing on base safe. That's it. and the play would be over. It made zero difference if the first baseman was off the bag. She called the batter runner safe when he was already out. Both runners (1st and 2nd base) retreated after the ball was caught. They only thought they needed to advance after she butchered the call at first. The umpires (HP and 1B) weren't even aware that the throw to third was an appeal of the tag up. They thought it was a force at third.

That last view showing the catch also showed the R3 go into retreat... so he may have gotten back because he was headed there... that little insert you put in showed that.. we don't see if he actually retouched.. but he was headed that way. We also don't see the umpire call upon the appeal. to agrue the scorer ruling, arguing with umpires (who don't make the scoring) is barking up the wrong tree.. Let's argue a good thing... ugh.. I think this guy makes Boone look smarter..

That the manager looks sorta like a washed-up WWF wrestler only adds to the story...

The coaches and players think they know everything but its obvious most are very ignorant.

@CommonSense823

Ай бұрын

As ignorant as the first base umpire calling the batter runner safe at first?

@ModernCowboy78

Ай бұрын

Lol sticking up for these people is hilarious.

@CommonSense823

Ай бұрын

@@ModernCowboy78 I agree. Going out of your way to kiss the umpire's ass when they clearly got the play wrong is ridiculous.

@ModernCowboy78

Ай бұрын

@@CommonSense823 they didn't get the play wrong. Did you even listen to her?

@CommonSense823

Ай бұрын

@@ModernCowboy78 Did you watch the video. 1) the first base umpire had the runner safe after he was already out. 2) the runner never tagged. You thinking they got it right is hilarious.

"addle-pated reactionary". Wonderfully out-of-character.

5:29 Lindsay's word of the day, apparently, is "addlepated", meaning mixed up, confused, or eccentric. TIL! Even Google's voice-to-text engine couldn't understand it and thought I said "adulterated" instead.

Holy crap... "Jomboy moment" really is part of our lexicon already, huh? Congrats, Jimmy: you will live as long as Baseball!!

Columbus looks incredibly foolish here

Also, credit Jen for turning to her partner to get him to shut up and walk away. Then, she finally gets the manager to go away.

That's not why he got ejected. The title of this must be clickbait.

Since you actually reference Jomboy, you might want to actually watch the Jomboy video on this before you so hastily make a video adamant that the umpires were in the right. The offensive manager is mad about the home plate ump confronting his catcher. Yes the catcher said something first, but there was no reason for the ump to make it a scene. So the manager came out to say so, got immediately ejected, and so went about letting the ump know that he had screwed up the last half inning by missing the no tag up at third. I'm not sure how Jomboy has an angle that you don't, but the runner clearly didn't tag up in that extra angle, and it certainly looks like R2 thought the inning was already over because of that.

As if umpires don't have enough problems...now we have coaches complaining about a call that went in their favor and getting ejected? Still waiting to see the first coach whose runner makes a mental blunder that leads to an unforced out being told by an umpire how "terrible and horrible" they are and "to get better"...People make mistakes. You want to get mad about it? Fine. But, we have to draw the line at complaining on a call the umpire made incorrectly in your favor. What...literally...are you even complaining about? Nothing ever positive came from expressing yourself with negative emotions.

Someone should check Mgr Tracy's water bottle. This guy has had one too many.

You always siding with the umps it’s annoying

You ever think the umps ever do anything wrong

@r-w-r

Ай бұрын

She has several videos critical of the umpires.

@FJBLGB-hs4xx

Ай бұрын

@@r-w-r Only after mocking players/coaches/announcers and missing the majority of umpire mistakes.

@claymaker42

Ай бұрын

@@r-w-r several out of how many videos she has posted it’s just frustrating because she always be taking their side and yes sometimes it’s on the player but never on the ump

@CommonSense823

Ай бұрын

@@claymaker42 This channel is for umpires to gather and stroke their fragile egos.

@claymaker42

Ай бұрын

@@CommonSense823 fr bro I agree