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I love how the author of Lord of the Flies saw the many books about British kids going to wondrous lands without trying to dominate everyone and just went, “nah, here’s what would actually happen”

@DergPH

2 жыл бұрын

yes

@scarredchild

2 жыл бұрын

This is why, while people love C.S. Lewis' world, they go to authors William Golding to find deep meaning. I mean, who looks at this book and thinks "Yes, this is how actual people behave!"? There has to be more, or else yikes!

@jm6456

2 жыл бұрын

Something similar actually happened in real life and nothing that happened in the book happened

@dolphin550

Жыл бұрын

In fact, Coral Island is mentioned a few times in Lord of the Flies and used to contrast the beauty of the world of that book with the dreadfulness of the island in this book.

@victormeunier9075

Жыл бұрын

Except this situation happened and it went pretty well. The kids were scouts and organized a kind of anarchist society.

What a lot of people are missing is that the book is also at heart an attack on the English Class system. These are upper-class boarding school boys, the product of the very system that was supposed to create men fit to rule an Empire, and it's the violence and cruelty of those systems that are unleashed on the island.

@eyallevin6302

Жыл бұрын

@@anthonylopez5 It's all symbolism

@AlecEburhard

4 ай бұрын

Might be a bit of stretch there

I don't think Lord of the Flies was about what boys would do without adult supervision. This is a book about unhinged group think and dogmatism, not what boys would do if they were stranded on an island.

@ecurewitz

2 жыл бұрын

I see lots of people never got that message

@jakubprzybylski6670

2 жыл бұрын

Finally, somebody... Thank you.

@henrygustavekrausse7459

2 жыл бұрын

How can they be dogmatic if they thought up their dogmas that very minute. Everyone on the island was objectively open-minded considering how fast their ideas about how to behave changed in the face of the circumstances. I do see the groupthink, but I don't see the dogma.

@Tacticslion

Жыл бұрын

@@henrygustavekrausse7459 It's open-mindedness that turns rapidly to dogmatism. The open-minded view is replaced by a dogmatic one having fallen prey to the new idea - this has become a new dogma.

@tiglishnobody8750

Жыл бұрын

And also destructive of human and short-sightedness As they kill Sow pig which end up wipe pig population out along with source of meat Or while they chase Ralph, they burn forest to drive him out which end up burnt much of food supply Have Captain not inference will leave boys starved to death

"A crisis, a charismatic strongman, and fear." All our literary warnings keep being treated as playbooks.

@tessat338

2 жыл бұрын

Sigh....I know!! And I also know some people who were AT that January 6th Capitol Hill Rally for Stupidity. Those people READ "Lord of the Flies" and they still fell for the demagogue who had them chasing imaginary monsters!!! At least my connections didn't actually GO into the Capital. My husband won't speak to them anymore. He's done with them and I totally give him a pass from seeing them.

@lisap546

2 жыл бұрын

The three ingredients for any good dictatorship

@ecurewitz

2 жыл бұрын

And here we are

@CptViscen

2 жыл бұрын

At long last, we have finally created the Pain Nexus from the classic story, 'Don't Create The Pain Nexus'.

@Ahrpigi

2 жыл бұрын

@@CptViscen "The cenobites sent us a cease and decist for infringing on their trademarked pain processes, so we think we're on the right track for release next quarter, and a Pain Nexus in every living room by Christmas."

William Golding Saw all those aventure books about English boys having a good time in the wild and decided to write... This.

@saahiliyer11

2 жыл бұрын

It’s “The Boys” of Englishmen civilizing adventure books

@Technodreamer

2 жыл бұрын

@@saahiliyer11 Neatly explains why I hated Lord of the Flies in school, and can't stand The Boys now...they're just unrealistic.

@Technodreamer

2 жыл бұрын

@@Zorajit Nah, man, that's too far

@grapeshott

2 жыл бұрын

I think the author has trolled all those who called tribals as "uncivilized". In fact he might have showed that the tribals were not cruel, but it's the English boys who acted cruel in the garb of tribals.

@thorealparis8959

9 ай бұрын

@@Technodreamer I think that was kinda the point of the book. Golding wrote it as an attack on the English Class system, it's not supposed to be realistic in the way that these boys go insane on the island, but how we as humans are unpredictable, selfish, and will go to far lengths to get what we want.

I find very interesting that the group doesn’t become violent until they see the pilots corpse. The group, left by itself, managed to make a stable society but outside interference, the war caused by the older generations, is what starts the violence in their society

@starlitgirl

7 ай бұрын

The same with the conch, after they became violent from the parachutist they broke the conch. Which after, for lack of better words, all hell broke loose.

@Baldwin-iv445

4 ай бұрын

No they were going to become violent either way. The corpse just sped up the process.

In the 1960s, a group of schoolboys stole a boat and were wrecked on a desert island. They did surprisingly well until they were rescued. They were then arrested by the owner of the boat.

@Jose-xh5qb

2 жыл бұрын

Lol

@TheFiresloth

2 жыл бұрын

They were then saved by... Let's say Moe.

@joshuayarrington9684

2 жыл бұрын

That actually is the story of the Tongan Boys that is mentioned in this video.

@jackukridge5381

2 жыл бұрын

@@joshuayarrington9684 I realised after I finished the video. I was just happy that the real life marooning actually showed them thriving and sticking together.

One thing I'd like to say is while there is some legitimacy on your take on Golding's idea of savages, you should also remember that he made the British kids savages, and not kids of actual indigenous decent or background, showing that anyone is capable of falling into madness. Either take on this is reasonable but I'd like to think the latter was his goal to represent.

@DergPH

2 жыл бұрын

yes

@notme8232

2 жыл бұрын

Well, you know as well as I do how the British get when islands get involved.

@ussinussinongawd516

2 жыл бұрын

@@notme8232 LMAOO

@TheOmegaXicor

2 жыл бұрын

I think what they were trying to say is that he wrote the British boys turning into wild uncontrolled savages by writing them acting like indigenous peoples, rather than outright saying that indigenous people are the ones that can descend into that behaviour.

@prestonjones1653

Жыл бұрын

Pretty hard to have indigenous inhabitants of an uninhabited island. Unless we're using "indigenous" as a byword for "primitive and stupid."

Golding wrote LotF as a response to The Coral Island: a Tale of the Pacific Ocean (1857) by R. M. Ballantyne and many others. I think the more interesting question is why do people assume one work of fiction is more reflective of the human condition than the other?

@powerist209

2 жыл бұрын

And then there's Tunnel in the Sky, which is a response by Heinlein to Lord of the Flies. At least the part where a group similar to Jack tried to break off and suffer from food shortages before joining back to the main group who survived and stick together. Plus said story being about space boy scouts (so they were trained to survive in the wild, unlike the Lord of the Flies' school kids) did help.

@ThomasstevenSlater

2 жыл бұрын

Because rich powerful authoritarian people want people to believe that without them society would turn into a 24 hour murder party, and are sure its true.

@fretienkamp6735

2 жыл бұрын

Because pessimism is more realistic. /s

@theoutlook55

2 жыл бұрын

Correct.

@Bill_Garthright

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah. As I recall, there's a real-life version of this which ended up with all of the kids working together like civilized people. I can't remember the details, unfortunately. Edit: Oh, yeah, he mentions the Tongan boys, later, huh?

Love that the villain is basically just a theatre kid who got mad he didn't get the lead role.

@ronispadez

Ай бұрын

STOP WHYS THIS TRUE

I'm happy to see that criticism of this story is getting traction: there is no known case of lost children succumbing to their inner demons, but there are plenty of cases of lost people pulling together during crisis.

@asiangaming8409

2 жыл бұрын

There was a group of 5 teens where on an island for 5 years and were actually very good, no killing, just great teamwork

@Hirosjimma

2 жыл бұрын

almost as if we've evolved altruism and compassion because they're benefitial traits to survival in small communes, in which we lived for the vast majority of the existence of our species.

@tijn0770

2 жыл бұрын

There was a pretty huge timeskip in the story wich give some explanation for the savagery

@rmsgrey

2 жыл бұрын

Many years ago, when I covered the book for school, we were required to write an essay on what we learned about human nature from the book. My response was to write an essay that started with a paragraph explaining that we learned about Golding's model of human nature that might, or might not, be representative of actual human nature, and then continued as a more conventional essay analysing the book's views on human nature with page references, quotations and so on.

@rosiehawtrey

2 жыл бұрын

You've obviously not been around lockdown teens

4:01 I will say, Golding taught at a school in my home town, and all I can say is I understand why he'd think schoolboys would become murderous "savages" after teaching there

I remember having to read this in high school. Now that I'm older, I can't help but think of the boys going through therapy while Jack spends the rest of his life in a straightjacket. I know he's just a boy, but he was the most monstrous of the characters that I don't think he ever showed remorse for his actions.

@Baldwin-iv445

4 ай бұрын

No. Roger would've been the one in the straight jacket.

Thanks for bring up briefly about the story of the Tongan boys. The lord of the files (fiction) is a reminder that humanity can be at its ugliest when fear, greed and selfishness are amplified. In contrast, with the Tongan boys they loved and served one another. When times were hard they though about each other, their family and God. If we were stuck on a desert island, the outcome would be based on three factors: what you have been taught, what do you value and how do you react in that situation (any desperate situation). Thanks again for the video.

@def3ndr887

2 жыл бұрын

And basically how many idiots are you stuck with but I digress

@yellowstarproductions6743

Жыл бұрын

I like it too.

"We're going to take a deep dive into the story so you can witness some of the darkest parts of the human psyche. YAY!!!" Those are ironically my favorite stories and why Lord of the Flies is one of my favorite books

@jamesgardner6434

2 жыл бұрын

I see you went to the Alanis Morrissette school of irony

to quote an artic shrew, "We may be evolved. But deep down, we are still animals."

@krankarvolund7771

2 жыл бұрын

Which is stupid, because most social animals are way less dangerous or each other than what we can see in our modern societies XD It's more, the more we evolve, the more we became dangerous animals ^^

@mrdoormat6809

2 жыл бұрын

@@krankarvolund7771 I think its ever increasing isolationism that turn us into violent "animals".

@John_the_Paul

3 ай бұрын

@@krankarvolund7771yeah, chimpanzees are real friendly

Also the inspiration for the season 3 Spongebob episode "Club Spongebob", which involves the main characters getting lost in a forest and consulting a magic conch shell for help

@bp_cherryblossomtree723

Жыл бұрын

Lmafo. Thats exactly what popped up in my head after I finish reading chapter 1

I'm definitely of the mind that the message is not about humanity as a whole, but the product of what we know as "civilized society"

@IliyaMoroumetz

2 жыл бұрын

So, pretty much what Ghandi replied when asked about 'Western Civilization'. "That sounds like a wonderful idea."

@macaylacayton2915

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah

I don't think the comparison to the 1960s adventure of the Tonga schoolboys is exactly a good parallel. Not because of what shortfalls or differences might exist in Western education, but because those boys are very different. They were older (around 16 at the time). They were all good friends, and there weren't a lot of them. In the book 12 is about the oldest age, there are kids as young as kindergarteners to take care of. There are a lot more of them, and they weren't all friends before the flight. These are some pretty key differences.

@intergalactic92

Жыл бұрын

One of the kids was a nasty bully, most likely to succumb to these desires. Without him it likely wouldn’t have gone the way it did. It’s an example of one bad apple spoiling the whole barrel.

@bensoncheung2801

Жыл бұрын

42nd 👍

@theonlysaneman4569

11 ай бұрын

Yeah, the comparison with the Tongans is hardly comparing like with like.

@auroralanimations4731

5 ай бұрын

I very strongly with you.

@Baldwin-iv445

4 ай бұрын

Plus the Tongan boys didn't have a literal psychopath who dropped rocks on kids and stuck spears up the backsides of dead pigs. And yes that actually happened in the book.

I love how my English class just started reviewing and reading this book and they make this video.

@sdrawkcab_emanresu

2 жыл бұрын

Your teacher works for EC

@jaydedepato6995

2 жыл бұрын

"So you Haven't Read Lord of the Flies" BUT YES I HAVE IN FACT, MY DEAR, GOOD SIR!

@thatliljeff5333

2 жыл бұрын

@@jaydedepato6995 😂

@Matuz12

2 жыл бұрын

I just finished reading the summary and this popped up

Fun fact, I discovered in high school English class that the meaning of the boys names are also significant. Baby name book FTW!

@sureindubitably3771

Жыл бұрын

like?

I honestly wish I hadn't read this in highschool not because it was bad but because I struggle to enjoy books I'm forced to read, I'm definitely gonna re-read it to actually enjoy it

school is starting and i did not do the summer reading. thank u :)

I like to think the pig represents civilization itself, with how its death marked the beginning of everyone's spiral into savagery and continued to rot and the decent worsened

@mktrafton7042

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe. The pig head which is called "Lord of the Flies" is Satan. The reason we know this is that in Jewish culture "Lord of the Flies" is the title Beelzebub which is a title for Satan the prince over the demons.

@mktrafton7042

2 жыл бұрын

In the Bible, bugs are also associated with hell.

Joker's One Bad Day argument, vs Batman's People ready to believe in Good rebuttal, the eternal struggle......

The “part adventure, part existential horror story” line had me dying 😂😂😂

I remember reading this in HS, teacher asked who'd they pick as a leader for the class, and despite me being introverted, I was picked leader for being big brain

@sureindubitably3771

Жыл бұрын

Well as long as you didn't set the school on fire and have a civil war with eachother with a pig head on a stick as your symbol I'm sure you'll be fiinnnee

@andrej2527

7 күн бұрын

ts did not happen

William Golding on Jack: Red hair, freckles, "ugly without silliness." Extra Credits: That won't stop me because I can't read.

A crisis, strong men, and fear... hmmmm... I'm feeling a feint sense of deja vu

I just finished the book a few hours ago and ngl I thought some cannibalistic stuff was gonna happen in the end and eat Ralph

I think the author has trolled all those who called tribals as "uncivilized". In fact he might have showed that the tribals were not cruel, but it's the English boys who acted cruel in the garb of tribals.

@Baldwin-iv445

4 ай бұрын

I mean that's, literally what he was going for.

I do wonder if this was also based upon the private school system that was in many places at the time with it's ingrained bullying and corporal punishment?

@truetrueevil1

2 жыл бұрын

I can't say state systems are any better. But maybe its less structurally ingrained depending on where you are.

If I remember correctly from my high school English teacher's explanation, Golding based the behavior of his characters off of boys in British private schools.

Can't wait for "So you Haven't Read War And Peace"

I read the book in high school but didn't really understand what was going on. This helps.

Lord of the Flies is a fantastic book. I've been a lifelong reader and LotF is probably in my top 3 books. I also heavily disagree with a lot of the symbolic interpretations of this book. My most disliked translation is that Ralph and Piggy represent Democracy and Jack and the choir represent Autocracy. Ralph and Jack are the oldest of the boys, and are immediately thrust into leadership roles. Ralph isn't voted on and often undermines his leader role by giving others authority and Jack is outright given the leadership of the hunt. Sure its an interpretation that fits but to me its far off the mark of meaning. Another symbol I disagree with is the Conch Shell. Yes, the conch representing organized society fits, but I think it's more visceral than that. The Conch shell represents the boys mothers and the security they would have if they just had their moms. Aside from the delicate, bright pink Conch, there is no (stereotypical) femininity on the island. Early on, before the shell is broken, Ralph constantly uses the shell (He who has the shell speaks) to reassure the boys there is no monster. This change in symbolism makes the climactic chapter when the shell is shattered much more impactful. Ralph's closest ally is dead, the security of the shell is broken, Jack has lead the boys to madness and murder, and now the jungle is burning.

@moozartney

2 жыл бұрын

I agree

@intergalactic92

Жыл бұрын

I don’t think giving others authority for a role is undermining your own leadership. Part of leadership is delegation, selecting someone for a specific job that may be better suited.

I litteraly have a test about this book tomorrow

Heart of Darkness, the Child edition!!!

My vague memories of school; this book was used to explore three systems of governance. Ralph represents democracy Piggy represents consensus Jack represents autocracy

I'm so glad that you guys made this 🥺🥺🥺

it's actually a school assignment to read the book, it's so eerie

A crisis. A charismatic strong man. And Fear. Now where have i seen this before. Hint: 55.7558° N, 37.6173° E

We did this in English class back in school in South Africa. So many memories dredged from the dark recesses of my mind...

This was super intresting! Love ur channel!

"We did everything adults do. what went wrong?"

I just learned about this book hours before you published this video ^^

Thank you for the video.

I've just read the wiki on The Tongan boy's survival on that island and found it gripping!

This is what I've been looking forward to

This is easily the best high school novel

@chasehedges6775

3 ай бұрын

One of the best novels ever written

I truly wish i could say I haven't read Lord of the Flies. Not a reading assignment I enjoyed at all personally

Wasn't there going to be an adaptation of this but with all girls? I think that does happen to have potential to be its own thing.

Yay new comtent! Keep going please!

I am actually reading this in my class

The funny thing is the School Goulding taught at is proud of his book despite his rather interesting view of his students

Finally! I don't have to re read this book for the 5th time for an ELA project

Yet another book I was required to read in high school. They did NOT prepare me for this one.

Am I the only person that enjoys the name of the coffee shop changing?

Read this story in high school for my philosophy course

Somehow I never processed that Jack and his original supporters were Choir boys. I recall reading it now, but I did not hang on to that detail during my initial reading of the book.

Never read the book but i finished the 1963 film and it's a masterpiece. Absolutely fantastic

Happy Hump Day! Thank you everyone for all your hard work and research on these videos and everyone watching thank you for staying curious!

Western society is about the self. The other group of boys you mentioned in a real life example were from a culture based on community. When cooperation is enforced, there is no room for competition

lol I remember reading this in high school and making a macromedia flash animation as a project

Anyone else listen to these so you can hear a very different perspective on books you have already read.

Spec ops the line did an even better job doing this

@rahcollier7006

2 жыл бұрын

That one was based on Heart of Darkness. Similar themes, though.

hopely you will bring extra myth in the future

I remember reading this story long time ago. I wasn't a big fan but I blame that on my development.

Hold on, doesn’t the story end with the man being horrified at what the boys had done, but then look back at his own warship and wonder if he was any better.

Wish I had this video in grace 9!!!

In addition to inspiring a classic episode of _The Simpsons_ ("Go banana!"), _Lord of the Flies_ also inspired a sci-fi take on the concept called _Infinite Ryvius_ that had a pretty bitchin' hip-hop soundtrack to boot!

jokes on you, I have read it! seriously good summary though.

Besides the fact that (as stated in the video) something extremely similar to the plot of lord of the flies DID happen in real life and everyone remained civil and kind to one another for the entire time all the boys were trapped on the island, People forget that in this book there is a time ship. It didn't all just take place over the course of a few weeks. It takes place over the course of almost a year. civilization didn't just immediately break down. Even when there was a boy written explicitly to be a violent sociopath, it took a while before anyone made the deliberate and intentional choice to do harm to their fellow islander. Also it's understated just how traumatized these children were, both from the plane crash and from a horrible war going on. It's really reductive to just say it's a book about how humanity is evil and everyone would turn on each other at the drop of a hat. Doing so ignores all the intricacies and nuance that built up to the tragedy the book ends in, as well as ignoring all the intricacies and nuance that would have to occur in real life.

This story plays out within ourselves. That's why it's so good.

@chasehedges6775

3 ай бұрын

It explores human nature

*sips tea* ahhhhhh, that’s some good tea.

2:24-2:30 For some reason I keep smiling every time Zoey meows in these videos.

No, i have indeed read Lord of the flies, thanks for asking

The stress on the "civilized" reminded me of the "relatively civilized" expression used by the CBS reporter......

KZread Red is a streaming service. I know what I'd pick for an excessively large amount of reasons.

If you want a more *visual* way of viewing something similar, I recommend to anyone watching this to look up the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine episode, "The Siege of AR-558".

I love this book 😍

@chasehedges6775

3 ай бұрын

👍💯💯

@chasehedges6775

3 ай бұрын

The 1963 film is a masterpiece.

Infinite Ryvius uses this story! But I'm sure you've already seen/read this series...

"All it would take for a society to collapse is a crisis, a charismatic strongman, and fear." We're fully stocked on two of the three, so thank God we don't have any "charismatic strongmen" around.

Oooooo k if there is one more book in my highschool English class's book list appear in this show I will demand the show's name change to "So your highschool did not asked you to read."

Oh hey! Finally a book I've actually read!

How about doing CS Lewis the chronicles of Narnia the lion the witch and the wardrobe?

William Golding: Kids will descend in savagery if trapped on a island The Tongan Castaways: *Alright, Bet*

Sadly yes I have, to my everlasting regret.

I just realize how much extra credits there is because we have history, mythology, game design, sci-fi, literature, and probably more I've forgotten or never saw. What will we get next movie knowledge?

3:34 Tell me Golding is british without telling me Golding is british.

Would love to see one of these on Don Quixote!

Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Middle Schoolers will watch this video, and get a B- on their 7th grade Bookreport

You touched on it, but didn't really make the conclusion. The book isn't about *human* nature. It's about the nature of the British upper class.

One of my favorite books Sad that no really good film adaptation was made

@yellowstarproductions6743

Жыл бұрын

Actually it did a film/movie adaptation.

@ettinakitten5047

Жыл бұрын

@@yellowstarproductions6743 Was it good, though?

@shabungaloo

Жыл бұрын

@@ettinakitten5047 nope lol

My friends say that if they ever get stranded on an island/wilderness they said they hope I’d be there with them because I’m such a good friend and I’ll keep them sane :) (okay it’s actually because I forage as a hobby and they don’t want to starve to death lol)

Perfect timing

That's some fine tea.

MATT Share the the tea, I could use a chai right now!

I want Cat-flix!