So your ideal mask would basically be a thick mesh bascinet :D

@fisadev

8 жыл бұрын

+Ægir Bladeworks that would be great, honestly

@DaraEhteshamzadeh

8 жыл бұрын

Actually, the American SCA seems to have a good tradition of making good fencing masks. www.pinterest.com/pin/241013017528151040/

Have to say now that it's lovely not having to turn down the volume at first. Normally it was really loud and sudden when you opened with your usual "Hi folks". Or maybe that was because your videos seem a tad louder than most. Either way appreciate the upgrade in quality :)

I initially ordered the wrong sized Leon Paul mask, they were very good about exchanging it

Solid and honest review - thanks!

When you played with the back of it, I started thinking on a hinged section that covers the back of the head and closes on the sides.

Windshield urethane would make a great gasket to cover up the steel backs trap.

Would love a follow-up review of this and what the current mask and BOH options are out there!

RE: Mesh vs Bib strenght: CIN Level 2 masks will have a minimum 1600N bib, and a 1000N minimum for the mesh. These are "FIE" masks.

Just from a neutral perspective, the shape of the rear of that mask, would almost lend itself to a mini "mirror" version of the facepiece, that could clip or be attached some other way to the stainless steel rim running around the rear of the mask. It would then enclose the strap holding the mask on, yet cover the back of your head, with a similar mesh to what you have covering the front. It would be far enough away to keep any blows off the back of the skull, yet be light and ventillated to cut down on the heat factor.

Given the poor visibility out of many historical helmets I'm surprised that nobody developed a fencing style helmet, or used a thick gauge mesh across eye or breath holes.

I'm not a HEMA guy at all and I don't know the specifics of your protection requirements but what it sounds like you need is something more like a baseball catchers mask. Specifically the hockey style ones. Great impact protection, good field of vision, and integrated back of head protection that is actually quite comfortable. It also has quite a beefy cage that it would be relatively easy to mount a steel mesh to. Throat protection should be relatively simple to add as well.

@jellevm

8 жыл бұрын

+Clark Keele I would think those are too warm and cumbersome since they're designed to withstand impact. For a fencing mask (my own experience is only with kendo, so there might be some differences) you actually don't really need protection against impacts since a sword is not a bludgeoning weapon. You only need a hard, thin layer to prevent the weapon from hitting you directly, and some padding which is basically just for comfort. So in HEMA you can probably get away with something much lighter than a modern sports mask (actual armor is just a thin metal layer after all), which is beneficial because head mobility is actually realitvely important.

@TheNotforyou

8 жыл бұрын

+Lazhward Kirmist Fair enough. They are pretty toasty but nowhere as bad as you might think. The mobility is surprisingly good as well, but again I don't know what they actually need as far as movement goes. Only reason I mentioned it is that Matt was talking about impact protection particularly from longsword which is a pretty high impact weapon.

@TheNotforyou

8 жыл бұрын

+Clark Keele at least I understand it to be a high impact weapon.

@jellevm

8 жыл бұрын

+Clark Keele They might not be all that much warmer, but there's really no reason to have it any warmer than necessary. A kendo mask is literally a thick piece of cotton for the most part and that's already warm in my opinion =P And high impact is relative I suppose, I don't think a federschwert/longsword hits anywhere near something like a baseball bat, but my only experience is with kendo like I said so I'm not sure actually how much weight is behind it. And I don't think it was very clear from my previous comment, but I don't think it would necessarily make for bad HEMA helmet, it could very well be functional. But the issue is kind of the same as with fencing masks, sure they _work_ for HEMA but they're not designed for it specifically so it'll still have its downsides. Edit: Also, hitting plastic/carbon fiber or whatever sports masks are made out of with a metal rod might result in them easily scratching and/or chipping. This is really just a guess, but maybe a metal-and-cloth mask is simply better for this purpose?

i also bought the leon paul/spes titan overlay and im pretty happy with it. it fits really tightly and i think offers good protection. As for the heat thing i think its something you get used to, being Australian i can tell you it does get crazy hot in hema gear, but i do all my or most of my fitness training wearing all the gear so i get used to it 👍

@wwolf5670

Жыл бұрын

Are you still getting on with the Paul Hema mask? I ordered medium and large (will return the one that doesn't work) and plan to use the Spes Unity Overlay as the Paul/Spes collab one is no longer available to my knowledge.

It needs that exchange system on the back for a back of head protection that mounts similarly to the bib on the front

He wants a mkvi corvus space marine helmet basically

Thanks for the disclosure. That means a lot, the fact that you're doing that. Have a nice day.

@SnipinCatz

8 жыл бұрын

It's now illegal not to.

@willek1335

8 жыл бұрын

SnipinCatz I didn't know that. :) Where exactly is this a law?

You can buy a head socket for it that will cover the top of your head and the back of your head and even the sides... it will be hot as hell inside, but you probably really want to get that for the longsword, since a strong oberhaw can hurt even with the mask on.

@LuxTheSlav

8 жыл бұрын

+CZProtton Did you not listen to the whole review?

you can attaxh the neck strap to the new coaches masks as well. i just bought the coaches mask and it kept slipping up over my chin when i had my pbt gorget and jacket together. when i got the neck strap it stopped it slipping up, which was a relief because i was getting quite upset about it and thought i wasted my money

Technical note: aiui, the LP mesh on the HEMA mask is 10% thicker than their standard stronger mesh. I'd ask Jacek for clarification, though.

@scholagladiatoria

8 жыл бұрын

+Tea Kew Hi Tea - I added a speech bubble on the video to clarify that point - their website says that it is 20% stronger, though I have to say that it looks exactly the same as my old instructor's mask. It's not thicker. Though I suppose it could be a stronger alloy.

If you can take the fabric off then you should be able to put the metal parts in the dishwasher.

Stench from the mask can be quite an advantage in a duel. Your own smell is always bearable

much better sound!

Hmm... something like armet or burgonet would be nice. But this mask looks better then other on the market, still scary (back of the head nad neck, but better.

Can you make a video showing adequate back of head protections? If you haven’t made one already...thanks for the review! Cheers!

I am new and looking at just doing rapier and sabre , is this mask ok or better of with the 1600 red dragon ?

I disagree with the bulkier head protector points you have. I use the PBT one and thrusts to the face sliding in isn't that much of an issue. It does happen on occasion, but even when it does it pushes the head back a bit, but it's not a big deal. Also, the heat is an issue but I got used to it fairly quickly. As long as I drink plenty of water and pace myself, even in the summer, it hasn't been an issue. Great points though and a enlightening review overall.

@PJDAltamirus0425

8 жыл бұрын

+HowJewDoin' Yeah, if they think heat is an issue with fencing masks, they would die in proper helmets.

@Dominator046

8 жыл бұрын

+Philip Dyer But, with most HEMA schools, the context is an unarmored one; they wouldn't need to wear a proper helmet. They should try and find something that doesn't operate the same as the historical analogue.

@PJDAltamirus0425

8 жыл бұрын

There was crap ton of people that fought unarmored that still wore a helmet. Hell, he did an video about even as helmets disappeared in western Europe, Military hat often had iron hoops inside.

@PJDAltamirus0425

8 жыл бұрын

and I don't get how heat can be a problem, the whole back of the thing is open and It looks like ya'll mostly fight indoors.

@Dominator046

8 жыл бұрын

Philip Dyer The idea is that these guys wouldn't be walking around with what would amount to a real helmet. Civilian context. Second, he addresses this point in the video. No fencing mask for HEMA should be open in the back, ever. Too many chances to have a strike to the back of the head, and striking someone in the back of the head is way too common in fighting for it to be otherwise. So, you have to completely close the mask.

why not just have a piece of mesh that clamps on the back of the head rim?

Do my eyes deceive me or is the bib actually somewhat bigger than the normal Leon Paul X-Change ones? It looks huge compared to the one on my mask.

@jbujko

8 жыл бұрын

+Chris Halpin It is - wider on the sides, thicker, a bit longer

I don't know if anyone makes something similar but the group I practice with we made back of the head protection out of a semi hard plastic (meaning it does have some flex however it is still very tough) that fits just over the back part of the mask and comes down the back of the neck. I may take a picture of it and post it for others to see.

@samprastherabbit

8 жыл бұрын

+Crazyscotsman Still waiting, mate ;)

@crazyscotsman9327

8 жыл бұрын

samprastherabbit And you will see it within a week at most.

@samprastherabbit

8 жыл бұрын

+Crazyscotsman Awesome, thank you!

The real question is : will it get rusty when i am filtering my noodelwater through it ?

@LordGangrel

8 жыл бұрын

+Dwarf-Elvish Diplomacy No, and if they are really thin noodles the mask will double as a chtulhu costume!

can i use a fie olympic mask for HEMA

What if you take a medieval-like helmet, and make a hard plastic (those used for making motorcicle helmets) version for HEMA fencing?

Serious question: I looked this up on their website, and while the main picture showed the back edge bare, the 360 Degree View model had a rubber guard/cover on it. Any idea why that is?

Do you plan to buy/review koning gloves?

@scholagladiatoria

8 жыл бұрын

+Harrad Rush Yes I plan to review it, hopefully in the not-distant future.

@demonprince108

8 жыл бұрын

+scholagladiatoria have you seen the fencing mask design by Terry Tindill? i think in terms of a hema specific mask it is the close thing to it , www.horsebows.com/fencing-masks.php

@PXCharon

8 жыл бұрын

+Christopher Stanley Designs I was just about to suggest the same thing. I don't own one, but I've hit several owned by friends... It's a solid, no BS, hema helm. Terry's a good guy, and a hell of a swordsman, exactly the dude you want designing a brain bucket.

@GermanSwordMaster

8 жыл бұрын

+Harrad Rush I would be very alienated if he didnt :D

I've always wondered, is there a reason why these sort of fencing masks never developed for military use in the past?

@hughgrection7246

8 жыл бұрын

+Richie Demo Metal shrapnel in the face is not a good thing. Metal cages around your eyes when things are exploding around you isn't a great idea.

@cjohnson3836

8 жыл бұрын

+Richie Demo What do you mean by "in the past"? You mean when swords were commonly used? They did, helms. Nobles were the only ones that could afford them. In a modern context (ie. since about WWI), there were far more important things to have on your face, like a gas mask.

Oh thank goodness, someone else who doesn't like head protectors. I think they look dorky as hell and never felt right. This is something I'm thankful is a non-issue for smallsword fencing.

Back of head protector idea! Grab a retired fencing mask, dismantle it, use the former "face" of it, with necessary relief cuts on the lower part to accomodate for the neck and shoulders (affix some metal edging to protect yourself from the mesh's edge) It could be attached to the mask in some sort of backwards Klapvisier sort of way, with a top hinge at the top of the backedge, that could maybe double as a lock, or use some toggles, adapted from the sort of hardware you'd find on toolboxes, on the sides... Ideally, that former face of a mask should be slightly smaller than the back edge of the current mask, to sit under the edge! Maybe the edging of the stationary piece of the mask should present an inside lip, for the back protector's edging to rest on, allowing it to behave once locked as an integral part of the mask, (limiteing the need for padding on the back part, to maybe some foam on the back of the current plastick cross piece of the headharness.... I dont have fencing masks to try that, but I'm rather shure that well executed it would work great! I'm willing to try and make that idea work if someone has spare retired masks!

I really need help! Can someone answer me? I need a mask with around 10 or 12mm gaps between the mesh. I know thats a bit unusual but i need it, and it doesnt really have to hold up much. Do anybody know masks with bigger gaps? Or a manufacturer that makes costom masks? And would you recommend polished mesh or black, in therms of good vision?

@horst5000

8 жыл бұрын

You could have a look at Eskrima or kendo masks. They have a a metal grill thing rather then a mesh.

@_j.v.st._7367

8 жыл бұрын

horst5000 I check out the eskrima masks, but Kendo mask steel wires are way to thick. Thanks.

Actually it's funny but the bib is stronger than the mesh. As far as Allstar and PBT masks go, bib is 1600n and the mesh is around 1100n.

Hey Matt, are you familiar with the History Buffs channel by Nick Nodges? I like to think that between his overall rundown of historical films, your detailed critiques on film battles, and Lindybeige's critically important task of pointing out wrong leaves, we've got the historical accuracy reviews of films and series pretty much covered...

@hrotha

8 жыл бұрын

+Robert Faber Didn't that History Buffs guy say the clothing in Vikings was accurate?

@rjfaber1991

8 жыл бұрын

hrotha He was less critical of it than some others have been, certainly, but then he doesn't appear to focus on costumes as much as plot and characters.

@JustGrowingUp84

8 жыл бұрын

+Robert Faber "and Lindybeige's critically important task of pointing out wrong leaves" - I hope this will become a long running joke, similar to the pommel ones. (although perhaps not as over used...)

@sirdrprofessor1637

8 жыл бұрын

+hrotha No, he called the leather biker gear completely useless and inaccurate.

@johnharvey5412

8 жыл бұрын

+hrotha he seems to be a lot more concerned with the accuracy of the stories than the details like clothing and weaponry

If you had to defend yourself in a home invasion and you had to pick up a weapon of yours which would you choose?

@scholagladiatoria

8 жыл бұрын

+Rhea Silhouette Much though I could say a lot about this topic, legally I think it would be unwise for me to.

Why do they make masks specifically for instructors? Do students not have the same need for head protection?

@samprastherabbit

8 жыл бұрын

+HebaruSan Instructors tend to be the ones running classes two or three or four times a week, and in order to teach their students proper technique, tend to allow their students to practice sparring with them, or practicing cuts to the head. Keep doing that intensively over a short period and you're going to start getting headaches... There's a great HEMA blog called Encased in Steel which deals with the topic very well if you're interested.

@Boilerz1

8 жыл бұрын

+HebaruSan Traditionally for sports fencing, fencers wear white and masters/coaches wear black. Also coach's/instructors tend to be hit an awful lot during drills in the mask and in general and not exert themselves too heavily. Therefore building it slightly heavier (thicker bib especially) at the expense of making it perhaps a bit warmer makes sense for an instructor. Fencers on the other hand want a lighter mask which is more comfortable when moving and exerting oneself. Comfort for when one is hit is less important, so long as it is still safe.

What models of orotection gear would you rekomend for a poor beginner in hema Longsword?

I don't like the rubber ring personally - I think it encourages blades to stick and transfer force into the mask - a sufficiently beefy steel ring would be a lot better.

Will you paint this one gold?

Yeah, tell them Matt! :)

Spes back of head protector (the occipital plate they sell) fits into a medium/small Leon Paul coaching mask fine (I haven't used the HEMA one yet, but use a similar one to yours) YMMV (as I did have to flex the occipital plate a little to fit, and I might have been lucky with mine) Also, I thoroughly recommend back of head protection in rapier & smallsword. At least when I play rapier and smallsword, there's a heap of grapples, and a whole lot of pommel strikes and knuckle-bow strikes. BTW, can we ever entice you to head down to the Antipodes?

@scholagladiatoria

8 жыл бұрын

+Dominic Mauricio The SPES back of head protector I received wouldn't fit any Medium mask - only Large and bigger.

@dommsg

8 жыл бұрын

Odd indeed. I agree that it isn't ideal. It does leave a bit of a gap at the top of the back of the head (which the LP sabre coaching overlay netgates) I'll admit that the SPES back of head protector does shift the size of the mask down by maybe half a size (I normally go towards the smaller side of medium) which isn't so great.

Am I Mistaken, or is that camera housing on the previous mask froma SJ 4000 or 5000 camera?

I'm curious on how leon paul will respond to that review.

That is quite a lenghty review, but not one that I would call a good one. It could be more concise and yet cover some important details. I think you should have disassembled the mask and especially show the padding inside. With rather poor lighting and the head strap in the way, it was pretty much impossible to see the inside of the mask.

Matt watching your video now about smelly fencing masks I was wondering if the combination of vodka with water have got rid of the stink of your mask. And being that the case what was the the way you use it I mean did you have your mask in something with vodka or just spray some vodka over it.

Thank you for the review. I also have an issue with back-of-the-head (and top-of-the-head) protectors. For one thing, they are useless against percussive blows to the top and sides of the head unless the mask is decently padded on the inside. The standard Leon Paul X-Change masks are dangerously under-padded. This HEMA mask appears to have some serious padding. That alone is a big point in its favour. The second problem with back-of-the-head protectors is they are needlessly long at the back. Some of them reach way past the nape (roundabout twelfth vertebra or so). Given that plastrons or padded jackets are worn by all rapier/sidesword/longsword fencer (unless they're insane), that part of the back is already protected. The ideal back-of-the-head protector would be something that attached to the rim of the mask, without gaps, and extends to roughly four inches past the collar of a standard fencing jacket, to allow for tilting of the head. Surely Leon Paul could come up with an attachment system similar to the bib, around the back rim of the mask Just one minor point on this mask: in many clubs, black jackets, and black bibs are reserved for instructors and maestros (it's the Italians that started it). The rest of us wear white bibs. It would be nice to have a HEMA mask that's not just for instructors. Let's have a white bib option, please.

wouldn't a transparent tempered and hardened plexiglass visor work? blow moulded and optically corrected. better than goggles or a face mask. I'm all for improvements - use titanium and Kevlar and self cooling and hydrating under garments- like a high altitude flight-suit slimmed down for movement. a flip up eye visor at as a HUD for beyond the spectrum. intercoms to hear orders in intensive noisy firefights. your weapons could be silenced too - a heavy calibre but sub-sonic LMG. surprise and initiative always confuses the enemy.

Found this weekend that the back rim is a weak spot on some helmets. A member of my club's mask got dented right there, and found a gap between his mask and back of head protection. Story ends with 11 staples in his head. Was back on his feet the same day, but needless to say he's looking for a stronger mask. That metal rim is a weak point on these masks, and in designing a hema mask it needs attention.

Hi matt.

in December I bought a leon paul mask, the bib has been changed, it awful.

I've been talking to anyone who will listen about the need for a bottom up, I even have some ideas on how to do it. If I had time and money it would so be a thing. I think our head protection is truly terrible, there is no concussion protection and this is our biggest issue safety wise.

Just getting something off my chest regarding HEMA: I sometimes get quite frustrated when watching videos dedicated to HEMA since I've always wanted to practice but never had the opportunity... I believe there are a couple of groups in my hometown, but it seems to me that they are more into the fantasy/cosplay/viking aspect than into the more sport side of the equation. Even the olympic fencing isn't an option, since the club that used to exist here is no more for quite a while now (at least since before I started getting interested in fencing - both HEMA and Olympic). Not that there is something wrong with enjoying wearing costumes etc., but it is seriously not my thing. The result is that it is basically not an option for me to get into the HEMA practice, at least in the mindset of club that I would feel comfortable with. But well, at least I can watch sparring and training sessions here in this channel, which is nice.

@acaristic93

8 жыл бұрын

+mafralvca Lots of people start up their own clubs and study groups. If you've got at least one person to work with you can start it up too. You can use this and other youtube channels as well as a lot of facebook groups('The HEMA Alliance','HEMA International Discussion','HEMA Hacks' and so on),various blogs and websited to get you going. And you can buy proper gear or start up with some cheap DIY stuff(it will be a bit more restraining when it comes to practice but you can still use it)

No wearing time?? :)

Backofheadprotector.

Why not use a real medieval helmet?

@EnterPants

8 жыл бұрын

+Tearjargon Expensive, hard to breath, little to no ventilation, heavy.

9:00 So please stop enting your students masks with your saber ;)

i didn't hear anything that could be taken out of context to sound sexual. sad day. maybe your other video for today?

@lukutiss1324

8 жыл бұрын

+weesh ful "If you're in a hospital with brain damage, your sword's not gonna work very well." It's a stretch, I know.

@andy4an

8 жыл бұрын

lol

Looking a little tired

@scholagladiatoria

8 жыл бұрын

+Rhea Silhouette Training last night, got back late.

I don't like your mike, it sounds muffled.