A few notes after reading the many comments. 1) I am not saying Hasbro would sell ALL of D&D off. I'm just saying they would sell the rights for another company to own and make video games. This actually isn't that uncommon, and it has been done before. Remember all those terrible D&D movies? Well, Hasbro sold off the rights to make D&D movies, which is why all those terrible D&D movies were made. So, Hasbro has a history of selling off rights of their properties in the past, INCLUDING D&D. 2) People have issues with Tencent, and I understand. But they already own 30% of Larian, and Larian already made a D&D game. Tencent does not have a majority stake in Larian, but they have access to Tencent's vast resources, and, like it or not, Tencent helped make Baldur's Gate 3. Also, Tencent owns parts of MANY video game companies, perhaps a shocking amount that you didn't realize. They own 100% of Riot Games, 80% of Grinding Gear Games, 84.3% of Supercell, 40% of Epic Games, 29% of Funcom, 16.25% of FromSoftware, 13,5% of Kakao, 11.5% of Bluehole, 9% of Frontier Developments, 9.99% of Ubisoft, 5% of Paradox Interactive, 3.8% of Remedy Entertainment, and they own undisclosed amounts of Platinum, Yager, and DISCORD. Yes, Tencent owns part of Discord... Think about that the next time you use it. And they own parts of FromSoftware, Paradox, Remedy, Epic, Riot, Grinding Gear, and so many others. You are already playing a game partially owned by Tencent or using Discord. Tencent has also started to dip into comics, music, animation, movies, TV, and e-commerce. They ALREADY have their hands in everything, and there is a good chance that you have used or like a product that Tencent has a piece of already... and that's just reality. 3) One of the reasons Marvel sold off their movie rights to those characters was they never planned to make movies in the first place. They didn't have the capital to make movies, so to them, it was "free money" as they sold the rights to characters in movies they never planned to make. Hasbro isn't making video games on many of their properties right now -- this is different than their mobile games, which is a separate discussion, and those are often licensed deals anyhow. I'm only talking about video games such as PC and console games. Hasbro has all but exited this space, so it would make sense for them to sell this part of their company to someone they know and trust, which is Larian. To some people, this might sound strange, I know, but Hasbro HAS done this before with D&D, and it's fairly common in the financial world to do deals such as these. Again, just my two cents.

@infernoeagles5812

5 ай бұрын

They also own the several governments and parts of Africa 😂

@actualz

5 ай бұрын

You mean, just your ten cents.

@nowayjosedaniel

5 ай бұрын

Most terminally online nerds who have a seething hateon for Tencent are just extremely xenophobic redditor types. As a scientist, I have never seen a single piece of evidence or even a reasonable argument that Tencent is a bad company, especially compared to American game companies who we DO have overwhelming evidence are excessively and viciously bad. To the triggered xenophobic redditors who dislike me saying this: I am not defending Tencent. You are just irrational and only freaking out all the time bc they're Chinese. You know I'm right, so just calm down and move on. To note, I see the same irrational seething fanboy culture surroinding hatred for Epic Games & Tim Sweeney. Steam fanboys are intolerable and cult-like. Every argumebt they make about EGS is more true for Steam, but they mindlessly worship Steam while viciously seething at EGS. Actually Steam cultists are more annoying than Jehova Witnesses who ignore the 'no soliticer' signs and never stop knocking (other very annoying young cultists). If you automatically hate Tencent or EGS, while also worshipping American corporations like Valve/Steam, then your opinion is as worthless as a Young Earth Creationist in a debate with Bill Nye.

@TheRulesLawyerRPG

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, I see a topvoted comment is from someone who never even saw your video. Smdh

@foldionepapyrus3441

5 ай бұрын

Would be rather nice if they did sell it ALL, unlikely as that seems. There are enough companies out there that would be better custodians of D&D and might be willing and able to buy at least a controlling share - and probably able to actually turn a reasonable profit by not burning the communities good will to the ground. Might even work out to be a good idea for Hasbro given how bad their recent publicity has been (though time will tell if the VTT and new rulebooks flop enough to make them consider it). But just keeping a meaningful share and take the profits while whichever hopefully untarnished brand takes it forward. In much the same way Tencent seems to be working successfully despite lots of folks not trusting/liking 'em.

You'd have to asume Hasbro could make a smart decision like that... When they've shown they're just incompetent.

@anonymouse2675

5 ай бұрын

Thy are worse than incompetent, they are actively and intentionally stupid. It`s almost like they are ruining their company on purpose. "We have the most recognizable Table Top Role Playing Game in the World! Lets kill it so we can make a bad version of a computer game!", and "Oops, we accidentally gave a KZreadr some unreleased cards! Quick, lets send some of the most notorious Mercenaries and Hired Killers in American history to get them back! No one will ever know!". I don't think they will make the smart business decision...

@SergioLeRoux

5 ай бұрын

They don't need to be smart, just desperate.

@OutlandStation

5 ай бұрын

As a Hasbro shareholder, it pains me deeply to agree with you. They've not been kind to my investments.

@darkstarplays6315

5 ай бұрын

@@OutlandStation won’t lie, that’s what happens when you only see dollar signs

@OutlandStation

5 ай бұрын

@@darkstarplays6315 - sad thing is they could/would see MORE dollar signs if they treated D&D like a long- term commitment...

I think Larian leadership is really smart about where they put their money. I think they would stick to making games and not get into the book printing business. I think it would be too big a gamble for them. I think it would be someone like Paizo who would be more likely to buy D&D printing.

@hectorvivis3651

5 ай бұрын

I wonder if Paizo would, tho. I think being the underdog rival fits them well, especially after their stance with ORC, because we're talking about working with Hasbro under their licence, not just acquiring everything D&D and changing the whole ecosystem of the game. But outside of that, not only buying D&D would mean cannibalizing their own established audience with very similar products (PF and D&D have a very close ADN still), they already feels at capacity too, with a quite tight release schedule with a good chunck of books having quality control deficiencies. I'm not seeing them adding a new line of (again, similar) products to their workflow without quality going down the drain, or without them just outright stopping developing for Pathfinder. I'm not the most informed and I may be absolutely wrong, but that feels like a bad business decision for Paizo. I quite agree with your statement on Larian tho, but it seems like a passion project, and it may be a good way to diversify too (and Tencent, one of their big investors, are bitten in the ass by Chinese crackdown on videogames, paper games may be a good investment for them) I wonder if Habsro cutting their book handling partners would make that more difficult tho.

@SturmSwiftaxe

5 ай бұрын

Paizo probably can't afford it, though...

@bilboswaggings

5 ай бұрын

There is no point for Paizo to buy it, they don't have the money and their current product would be overshadowed by their acquisition It would be much more likely to happen the other way where Hasbro sells other stuff away and cuts down on toy spending and buys Paizo to get rid of competition driving their sales up even more

@dungeonmaster16

5 ай бұрын

@@SturmSwiftaxeprinting wise they too are starting to shift, but the dnd brand would heavily benefit them on the world settings dnd got and terminology like owlbear and such without worrying any bs. For sure one setting I can see heavily benefit paizo if own dnd is Spelljammers. Wifh pf2e and later starfinder 2e then paizo wants a middle ground between the two. Cause in pathfinder other planets still known, just only way to get to them is mainly teleportation gates like elves have from their home planet to golarion or discover and figure out how to repair and pilot a advanced ancient starship in numeria. Alkenstar just started making airships with one I think is featured in call of the wild book. So if they can create magic ships that can contain air and jump through space rhen that will open a MASSIVE thought ideas for players and gms on worlds, ancestries, magic and such. Hell you can introduce ancestries from starfinder like the Vesk in pathfinder if rhey didn’t discover advance tech making yet.

@trollishmc2920

5 ай бұрын

Please no with Paizo. Not that I think it would happen anyway. I am almost 100% certain that Larian has no interest in acquiring the D&D brand. They want to make video games.

I love the idea of Lauren studio owning D&d but I don’t like the idea of Tencent being involved.

@drkmgic

5 ай бұрын

yep.

@trenwilson6613

5 ай бұрын

I'm in agreement, I have heard that Chinese companies are nothing more than the financial arm of the CCP. If this deal goes through I hope what I heard is wrong.

@AxiomofDiscord

5 ай бұрын

That is like having Marvel involved without Disney. If you want the shell you got to take the rest of the package with it.

@Quandry1

5 ай бұрын

​​@@AxiomofDiscordanother few years and we may have a marvel without Disney again. So that may not stand true in the long run.

@markuslinneweber5890

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, we're worried about being monetized excessively by Hasbro and are now considering Tencent? While you could probably make more money with video games and virtual table tops, I guess it would probably be the end of pen&paper as we know it. Not sure there'd even be books.

I have a feeling Larian's next product will be their own IP. They made such a splash, they don't even need D&D. If they could get the D&D IP for cheap, it might be worth it but I doubt that would happen. I wouldn't want to see Larian stretch their financials for that purchase and risk the many great games they will produce in the years to come.

@Ditidos

5 ай бұрын

Agreed, I can see them doing it out of passion. But yeah, Larian's name is currently larger than the D&D brand, so they don't need it at all.

@hermesalexandria

5 ай бұрын

They have their own IP, it's the Divinity series.

@dungeonmaster16

5 ай бұрын

From dropped frames podcast that interviewed him last year the ceo of larian loves the dnd brand, but on topics of systems you can tell he has gripes with, even more when go into on trying to make certain 5e rules to work in digital from. The issue is the license restricts them on creative choices and changes needed to make the game play better on digital form . And ppl say they should make another dnd game, truth is they won’t as long the license restrictions remain the same and any rules from 5e or future editions doesn’t work well in digital format becomes a hassle to them. License restrictions include stuff like “visual dice rolling is mandatory!” To adv/disadv bs to exact die value/effects from spells/items and such no matter how broken/op they are at any lvl.

@WolforNuva

5 ай бұрын

@@dungeonmaster16 This is why I don't want another D&D game from them. I adore BG3, and would still love playing a new D&D game that they make, but the system at its core was its weakest point. I'd rather see them continue to develop their Divinity OS series, taking the elements that worked well from BG3 and incorporating them into something that's actually designed for a videogame.

@Quandry1

5 ай бұрын

​@@dungeonmaster16except there are a bunch of things they didn't actually follow. Honor mode actually reverts some things back closer to the rules. Like how certain spells work and effects stack.

I like this idea, buuut they could instead try to tough it out and eventually sell it for scraps to Roll for combat

@PerfectionHunter

5 ай бұрын

This would be the best, yes.

@dungeonmaster16

5 ай бұрын

On serious topic: let’s say if dnd brand does get sold if anyone with money, customer base and knowledge around the d20 system then Paizo I can see acquire it. From the staff there and history with WotC and older dnd editions (obvious pf1 is 3.5e enhanced) to the world setting of golarion and expanding it then it is beneficial for them to have dnd. You got the world settings, any virtual products from dndbeyond to the vtt if they keep it (mainly due fo they already partner with demiplane which the ppl there used to own/make behind, then vtt is damn expensive to run and paizo out their products on other vtts), got the names they avoided now back so they can choose to bring back, alter or ditch for good and other things with dnd brand. If anything do wonder if magic the gathering is sold, if paizo bought it then how they use it? Ngl I wanna see a Magic: adventure card game since paizo stopped making new ones for pathfinder adventure card game since 2021.

@Questfinder1

5 ай бұрын

Sell it to the Critical Role company.

There is precisely zero chance that Larian would want to purchase D&D. The make video games that are adaptions of tabletop rules. They don't make tabletop games. They don't publish books. The entire reason Larian is so successful is that they stay in their lane and focus on what they are best at.

@Tenderleaf

5 ай бұрын

Larian made a Divinity: Original sin boardgame.

@under20over40

5 ай бұрын

@@Tenderleaf they didnt design the game, they hired another studio to do that. The kickstarter was what allowed them to produce it

@shaunhall6834

5 ай бұрын

You didn't even listen to the video but just reacted emotionally. Listen to the video from being to end and maybe you will change your comment?

@BaeBunni

5 ай бұрын

They could still purchase the IP and subcontract out making new material to other companies especially some of the ones that were dnd homebrew companies that decided to try and build brand new tabletop games probably could essentially become the "tabletop arm of D&D" but yea it would probably be a relatively complicated to try and set it up along with the purchase since they would have to deal with a distributors with previous contracts.

@vn0688

5 ай бұрын

I would argue that buying dnd doesn't mean they will make tabletop games, but rather that they will own the IP and get the rights to create stories using the characters and ideas of the universe in their preferred digital medium, without having to answer to hasbro. If they did this, and simply contracted out the rights to another company to do tabletop development, then you'd see a massive improvement in nearly every facet of the dnd hobby. It would be a bonus if they were able to grab all of wizards of the coast... WOTC did alot of interesting work integrating DnD with MTG, and the amount of highly profitable established content they could work with would keep them occupied for decades.

Larian is not going to have any interest in buying D&D, I am pretty sure they got that out of their system with BG3 and Sven has said they want to do something different for their next project. I don’t think they really want to develop D&D, they want to develop video games.

@slaapliedje

5 ай бұрын

I actually think it would be cool for them to release the Divinity Original Sin system as a TTRPG.

@miri_kess

5 ай бұрын

@@slaapliedje as cool as that theoretically could be, it would be quite bad. They masterfully created the system that greatelly utilizes the fact that you got computer doing all the calculations, big and small. Keeping track of ability points, movement, vision and range as-is would be a nightmare at the table.

@slaapliedje

5 ай бұрын

@@miri_kess You mean like how all RPGs have been doing for ages, and (for the line of site, etc) VTTs now take care of perfectly? It seems to me they basically invented their own RPG before they could get the D&D license, and it is a pretty sweet one.

@Quandry1

5 ай бұрын

​@@slaapliedjemany rpgs use vastly simplified systems compared to video games. It doesn't compare as easily as you think. Larian know that and have even basically stated as much before.

@xczechr

5 ай бұрын

A Starfinder RPG by Larian would be wonderful.

Games yes, TV/Movies/Novels yes, Books no To me, Hasbro’s 2023 efforts were to end Pen and Paper DnD and SRD gaming and move everyone to their digital walled garden. IMHO, having a licensed PnP creator would take away from that revenue Thanks for the content

@Quandry1

5 ай бұрын

Not only does it take away from that but even though many at Larian love it, they also know they are not in or set up for that kind of business.

I was brought in as a contractor to mount the original artwork into frames for a touring Marvel exhibition here in Aotearoa just a few months ago. It was really interesting that they had to deal with both Marvel and Sony (because Spidey) and also, the giftshop, was a british concern, who has the rights to merchandise! THE most expensive artwork I've ever handled was Todd McFarlanes spiderman 300 issue pencils and inks, worth approx $3 mil $US. Needless to say insurance was a massive part of it. The old sixties pieces are my fave, some hilarious Thors, but also an early 90's Mignola Avengers cover showing his early style.

It's a lovely idea, but Larian wouildn't be able to swing that kind of deal atm. Larian even stated on twitter that they didn't have funding for Baldur's gate 3 besides the kickstarter/profit from other games. I believe the tweet quote was "what funding?" But I am incredibly curious what kind of funding if at all Tencent actually gives Larian.

@nowayjosedaniel

5 ай бұрын

LOL after BG3 they have the funding now for anything they want.

Pretty compelling case made. I'm not sure Larian would want to over-extend themselves in this way, nor would Hasbro be smart enough to make such a deal. It's a big swing idea though and it is fascinating to entertain.

@LainK1978

5 ай бұрын

It isn't that compelling. His entire argument is flawed because the digital side doesn't make money without the game. Selling off D&D means that the buyer could do license its digital use to others.

I remember your rather recentvideo with Linda Codega in which you discussed how much DND would be worth if Hasbro were to sell it. I remember thinking LARIAN SHOULD BUY it throughout the video. But your conclusion back then was that they were not going to sell DND any time soon. There went my dreams. But I think you are 100% right about Larian loving DND and making DOS 2 so that they could get BG3, them knowing 5e better than anyone else (the tweaks they made to the rules in BG 3 are now used by many DMs, myself included, and those required extensive knowledge of the system to create, get right and improve the mechanics). I am also almost sure, for reasons, that they hated Hasbro for the OGL situation last year. What I didn't know about was 10cent (which I find a bit sad, but thank you Stephen for the info). So, yeah this could happen. And I REALLY, REALLY hope it will. Thank you so much for this channel. I have watched almost every single video since last year. So insightful

I dont think anyone wants to buy D&D with the priority being core game publishing as mentioned, they want to invest in the brand. So you need an org who has a lot of money, is actively acquiring studios, and can quickly flip the brand into something profitable. That says Netflix to me. Plus they're on the record about their acquisition strategy Tencent's influence on the overall gaming industry shouldn't be ignored, but better to see them as an investor rather than full owner, since they dont have a great track record as majority/full owners of companies outside the us (riot, epic)

...why am I all in on this?

Also relevant, a Paradox Interactive bought White Wolf on a fire sale in order to make games with it. They have let pretty much everyone make games in the IP since. The scale is so different that the business decisions probably are only marginally relevant, but it is not unprecedented.

brilliant idea and I hope it happens, and I agree it makes sense to all sides, is a win-win and could certainly happen -- only wrench in the gears I can think of is the natural progression of BG3.5, BG 4, etc.., is to include a way for folks to create their own adventure modules like NWN and NWN2 did (and Solasta does) ... I could see this possibly competing against DND Beyond

I think it would be better for Larian to buy the rights to Arcanum from Microsoft. This setting is undeservedly forgotten, although it has a thoughtful world. In addition, it seems to me that it would be more Larian's inspiration to bring the "steampunk esthetics" that they touched on in Dragon Commander but never brought to the full force of circumstances. Swen and Larian are people of inspiration to a greater extent than a "clear business plan" (to buy D&D and be hostage to the expectations of fans and have to work in only one setting), if they do this, the studio will "burn out" and we will lose what we love it for.

big problem with this idea, WOTC owns D&D, yes Hasbro owns WOTC, but usually in an acquisition like that contractually the rights to their products still fall under a single heading. meaning Hasbro most likely cannot sell off D&D without selling WOTC in total.

@DestronGaming

5 ай бұрын

What else does WOTC own, or is it just D&D?

@Seergun

5 ай бұрын

@@DestronGaming Magic the Gathering, which it what makes Hasbro all its money

@jmangan17

5 ай бұрын

@@DestronGaming Magic the Gathering

I suggested this a while back in a twitter post. But I had no idea of the complexities, interconnections etc. Good to hear that I wasn't too far off target. I know so little about DnD, but with the surprise success of BG3, Larian must have a bigger warchest than they had expected to have. DnD seems to still be popular. Buying the rights would give Larian the freedom to make new games in the DnD universe without anyone looking over their shoulders, and the next Larian game is an almost guaranteed success.

Is it problematic for a Chinese company to own part of D&D?

@RavenGlenn

5 ай бұрын

Chinese companies own part of almost everything these days.

@hermesalexandria

5 ай бұрын

He's saying for Larian to own it, but Tencent to finance it in exchange for access to the brand in it's other studios. If Larian own the brand and gate keep it, so we don't get D&D video game shovelware, it could work.

@Lycaon1765

5 ай бұрын

very much so

Stephen I am a bit ashamed how long it took to come across you, but you’re truly amazing!🎉

Paradox Design Studio bought White Wolf, so there's precedent for the idea of a video game company buying a TTRPG and actually keeping it alive. Edit: actually, CCP (makers of Eve Online) bought White Wolf first, then sold it to Paradox.

This is a fascinating idea and thank you for the behind the scenes perspective, love learning about it all! It would be amazing to see the brand in the hands of ppl who actually know and love the hobby!

❤thanks for the info!!!

Really interesting revelation regarding Tencent, thanks!

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Larian is amazing. I would even reconsider D&D as a system if they put the finger on a future edition. Videogames, of course.

@2OldGeeksTalking

5 ай бұрын

Larian hit it out of the park with BG3, but could they be consistently good if they had more responsibility?

@uxigadur

5 ай бұрын

@@2OldGeeksTalking I don't think responsability is an issue. They are solid on that part. The update they did for one fo the acts in divinity original sin 2 was an amazing proof of dedication and the reason why many were really calm about some issues on BG3. Larian woulnd't bite more than it can chew, and if that happens they would push the date as much as needed. My concern is more about they going to a different industry with the books.

You live in a nice world full of joy. I live in reality where a company like Electronic Arts would be the ones to buy Dungeons & Dragons. Like how Atari made D&D video games for years, the company makes bad deals. That's just what they do, thats their company policy.

Your analysis is a great synthesis of gaming and business knowledge. 👏🎲

Great idea Stephen! I hope Larian and others buy the D&D brand and make lots of great video games. Win, win!

It's a good possibility. Either this or they would try to farm out the product in different directions.

The 5E books have dropped in quality since Tasha's. I don't think WotC has any good designers left.

Would love for Larian to buy the D&D IP. Work with 3rd party publishers for the book parts, while Larian develop D&D games. Then they adapt the Divinity world into a D&D setting too, connecting everything. I see so much potential. And it also allows them freedom to delve into the other D&D settings for inspiration. Ravenloft, Eberron, Dark Sun are all good enough to set games in. Basically use the video games to promote D&D and the settings.

Larian could (apart a series of amazing games) make a decent campaign builder, that would be incredibly interesting. Creating modules for different cities, monster sets & c.

Tencent is undergoing its own financial stressors now due to China’s new policies on gaming. I don’t know if they’re in the position to just take all that on right this moment. If the financials on the books really are that bad (they seem like it!), then I doubt it’s going to be appealing to Larian to take that on. I think it would essentially be an all or nothing kind of deal. I don’t know why Larian would agree to this deal that would only give them a marginally profitable new market (publishing) and chain them down further to the D&D brand. That brand has value, but only if they have no worries about the restrictions on it. As a last aside, Baldur’s Gate 3 already has the makings of a hugely successful VTT. I would far sooner negotiate for the rights for that than I would publishing - that seems like such a bad investment on their part! And if it’s just going to be an exclusive license, then Larian is going to be better off doing their own thing for their next game. So it’s more so all or nothing.

A couple of reasons I think this is very unlikely: 1) The example of Marvel was with film rights, film rights are a very specific convention that applies to movies. Games, while they will use licensed material, generally don't do so with the insane levels of permissibility that Hollywood does with film rights. 2) The only 2 Hasbro properties that are making them any money ATM are Magic & D&D... and as such those are the last properties they are going to auction off. 3) ... especially unlikely they'll auction off rights to make video games, as they have it in their heads yet again they can do that in house... see the whole OneD&D debacle. Specifically with Larian, I think they see the success of BG3 & think 'that could have been us', even though it couldn't 4) In the context of the above points, Larian was also ALREADY 'sold the rights' to D&D, for the purpose of making video games - which was how BG3 was made in the 1st place. 5) As others have mentioned, Larian is a video game developer, with no expertise at all in publishing tabletop games. There is no way they are going to spend the time & money to gear up into being a publishing company either, since to put it bluntly the amount of capital TTRPGs earn is bupkiss compared to their core competency of video games. And gearing up into publishing is not cheap... while they have some cross-over talent with Eg. art, they'll need to hire all new staff for handling layout, purchase specialized software, & negotiate with printers & distribution networks. They would have to spend whatever they paid WOTC for the license again to create an entirely new line of business for their brand.

The downside of BG3 for me has been that Divinity was put into (potentially) infinite stasis. If something like this would come around... I could live more easily with that. I wonder though: Larian never published a TTRPG version of their system, despite demand for it. It's designed for digital but for sure wouldn't be hard to adapt to physical. There likely were multiple reason, not becoming competition for WotC one of it, which wouldn't be the case in this scenario, but I can't imagine this to be the only one and I think it's not wrong to assume that many still are present and will be in the future. If anything, I imagine that Larian would prefer to develop a VTT, we've seen what they had back in D:OS2. Years ago it already was much better than anything WotC has shown today. This doesn't fit with WotC's plans though, who prefer to try it themselves. Maybe they will be ready (forced) to hand it off, once their own project failed?

@nowayjosedaniel

5 ай бұрын

The reality is they just didnt wants to make a ttrpg. Most likely the leadership just didnt care about it. This down to earth reality is usually the real answer to most things like this. They just said "Meh." Another alternative probable theory is that they had slight interest, had someone look into it, and they just couldnt find an acceptable partner to make the ttrpg with. They obviously would outsource it to another company. That requires a company they like and trust to be available to contract soon. Sometimes you simply just logistically cant find the people to do the thing you want, because there arent enough of them in the world and the ones that exist are all busy.

I honestly like the idea, but given that Larion is already in development of DOS3 I think they have all they need from DnD for the time being. They are likely to make a killing on DOS3 when it releases and with all the momentum they have build up from BG3 (and DOS2 prior) It will put the company in a really good spot. If a deal like this were to go down it would be tied to BG4 IMO and I don't see that happening for several years given their production schedule. Tencent may be in a position to make the move, but I doubt Larion is. From a creativity and balance philosophy perspective BG3 fixed a ton of problems with 5e, though they did create some (Blade Pact, Haste, Tavern Brawler etc) in the process. I would love to see the DnD team learn from the BG3 balance state as they move forward with the One DnD fixes, however I don't know how realistic it is for Larion to be the ones to publish the books. What I think BG3 did most for DnD was provide a pool of Items for players to take advantage of during their campaigns. this is an almost unexplored area of 5e and could be an entire book in itself. Given the passion in the community for DnD I think Hasbro should even consider a crowdsourcing model for balance moving forward as there are plenty of good options available online already.

I love this idea! Even though it kinda contradicts... but not completely contradicts the predictions I made earlier today.

In regards to Transformers, as an older nostalgia collector, more often than not I see people leaning more toward the 3rd party market products. Yes, they cost vastly more than usual (although that means very little in practical terms), but they on average provide a vastly superior product. Mainline Hasbro figures which are traditionally priced at the more average consumer level are still often bought out in bulk and then resold on the secondary market at a higher markup. A third party manufacturer might make a decent profit with the license if they could use official branding.

@DestronGaming

5 ай бұрын

I'm curious, how many of the newer Hasbro figures have you gotten in the last 2-3 years? Most of them have been pretty damn good! Also, Hasbro in debt adds a bit of a sadder reason as to why they are making figures of popular but lesser-known characters like Tasmania Kid and Magmatron...

This is interesting conjecture. 🤔

Larian studios owning d and d Sounds like a Dream come true. It just goes to show that if you pour your passion and make a good product that people will love it, and you don't have to "separate players from their money". Sine note, I would love to see larry and do the next KOTOR game as well.

I think Hasbro would like to 'rent out' DnD as an IP to interested companies. Films, novels, comics, board games, crpgs etc Not sure others want it unless sold off cheaply. Imo the ttrpg would suffer unless it goes to another ttrpg company

@zenvariety9383

5 ай бұрын

So Darlington Press? A new company?

@trebormills

5 ай бұрын

@@zenvariety9383 Darrington, Kobold Press or Paizo seem a good fit. Not sure Hasbro or they would go for it though.

@trebormills

5 ай бұрын

Seems Hasbro is talking to folks re a sell off. Tencent being a front runner to buy

Great, but how can you get this message to the decision makers on both sides?

This all makes perfect sense and would be a great move....which is why, based on the last few years business choices, I'm pretty sure Hasbro won't do it.

Do we trust Larian? Today for sure. Does Larian see their core business as TTPRG design and content publishing? Probably not. If the core leadership of WotC is intact, then maybe they could do it with WotC continuing to exist.

@2OldGeeksTalking

5 ай бұрын

Larian is hot right now, I can remember a time when the same thing could be said for Bethesda and CD PROJEKT RED..... but oh, have they fallen.

The biggest problem with the specifics is how to draw a line so that video games by Larian do not compete with D&D Beyond. Once they release the game engine toolkit, which they already have full right to do, it will be a competitor to D&D Beyond. Plus Larian can already keep making new D&D adventures under the OGL and just not use the D&D brand. The brand is worth something, and Larian might benefit from rights to other D&D lore/settings. But I'm not sure Larian _needs_ either of those things to make tons of money, so why fork out the cash to buy it?

@freelancerthe2561

5 ай бұрын

It reminds me of what NeverWinter was like, but could not gain enough traction with custom campaigns. Of course this was back before mass distribution was as good as it is now. Larian starting their own repo and licensing scheme can potentially make BG3 a viable platform for a super modernized VTT. Building adventures would be a lot more labor intensive, and that will directly affect the pricing. But seeing as how so companies tried to monetize mods, and botched it, the bar for a desirable system it not gonna be that high. Even if they didn't go that route.... if someone in the modding/campaign scene made one or two good adventures using BG3, it'll prove a point.

I wish wotc would just scrap their current vtt and get larian to make one based off of bg3. Give them the license to put some more of the subclasses and mechanics in. Then just implement the dm mode from Larian’s previous game. Sell modules inside the new baldurs gate vtt as dlcs. Would open up dnd to the steam marketplace as well. Although I’m pretty sure larian said they wanted to move past bg3 eventually since they’ve spent so much time on it already. But this was before it blew up, so who knows now.

I think your strategy makes sense Stephen. Management won't sell D&D/Magic b/c at this point it is their reason for being, it keeps Hasbro afloat. It will be stockholders who demand a spin off in which they retain shares in the new company formed from D&D/Magic. I've been saying for a while they'd spin off WOTC and Magic in order to recapitalize Hasbro. Investors will want to shed the "dog" that is Hasbro the toy company and retain the valuable part where they can make money. More likely investors would sell Hasbro to a PE company for a turn around.

I have a feeling Hasbro would be asking for far too much money to sell D&D to Larian, plus, I don't think the tabletop stuff would be a good fit for Larian's business model.

I can see IP of D&D or the media rights where gaming is involved, to keep making D&D video games. There is so much content they can develop from going back almost 50 years. Many modules and settings.

I think Tencent can buy DnD but not directly manage it, just fund it and ask returns/profits from sales from anything from it (like Hasbro gets a cut). Lairian is not TTRPG or book publisher but videogame company, so they can focus making videogames. However they can provide license to other companies who specialize in fine tuning TTRPG rules and systems and book publishing besides WotC. But it assumes both Hasbro is willing to sell and Tencent realize potentials of buying but leave hands free approach of the investment left to companies which shares they own (and thus besides funding they get cut on profits).

Don't know if it could happen. But it would be awesome.

This has big "what if they made one console that played Nintendo, Playstation, and Xbox games!" from a kid on the schoolyard vibes.

They could throw in a sweetner into the deal too, like Hasbro gets 5% of any profits for a period of 5 years or something.

Loving D&D is one thing, wanting to take the reins of the IP is completely different. Larian only have experience making video games, and they probably love doing video games, not TTRPGs. Even if Tencent bought D&D and gave it to them, that would mean they would have to create a complete new division to start making the game and that would mean downsizing whatever other projects they're doing right now, would they want to do that? Also, D&D is what it is today because of the amazing work done by the current game designers on WotC. Changing the team like that doesn't bode well to any game, so I'm still skeptical they would do a better job than WotC at making the game even if for some reason Tencent bought them the IP and they decide to accept it.

While I believe this would be very logical and very hopeful at the same time. I don't see Hasbro actually pulling off this type of sale not because they can't find a buyer you already stated the obvious buyer choice heck I can actually see them setting up a bidding war but I also know that these are not the brightest CEO's. Considering that they've already been mishandling also other properties lately, I mean they're ignoring their Transformers cartoon series which is fantastic barely shuffling out any of the action figures at a reasonable fordable price for parents who have children in this economy the average action figure is around 20 bucks and that's for the low tier jakks 4 inch line is 15 6 inch line is 20 hasbro's 4 inch figures of transforming robots is 20 to 25 on average$10.00 for their 2 inch line versus jax's 5 and don't get me started on McFarland no wonder they're partnering up with so many other companies is that also do toys who they could possibly sell certain licensing rights to wait didn't they get a big huge licensing right that they really want to shovel off right now a long time ago the intergalactic rights to Star Wars toys I mean heck that's the whole reason why they try to jump into the builder line and then Kreo instantly died in a horrible fire! But if they really wanted to sell rights without having to worry about middle management money they did buy the Power Rangers wholesale wouldn't surprise me after all they just ended and so far saying that they're marketing a reboot.

I've been hoping that someone buys D&D for quite some time. Glad to see I'm in the same wavelength as you.

I think this is the best idea ever. I think with community support and expanding into European adaptations and the rest of the world into D&D. Something that nobody is really doing.

This has already been down. With another license, the Witcher. CD Project Red has the video game license to Witcher and Cyberpunk. One is a book series the other is a table top game. So what This video is saying makes sense

so close to their new edition coming out, they will likely tank any loss with the prediction of a short term cash bump from initial interest in the new stuff before it wanes away

I would love Larion to fully buy D&D. It would be amazing to see a game where they combine the lore of divinity i to D&D!

They are already doing this. Selling licensing for use of characters in different types of video games. Drizzt is in a limited set of mobile games owner by the same company

That sounds all fine and good the only thing I wonder is how is that going to affect dungeons & dragons adventures TV channel and any future movies. I would hope that it would mean that both would be better. I know has many KZreadrs point out there are many people that don't even realize that dungeons & dragons has a free streaming television channel but they do. The only thing is that dungeons & dragons make it look pretty cheap. I don't know if their three original shows really are as cheaply done as they look but they really do look like Hasbro is basically found a small section of their building and said okay this is your little studio will do, go do what you want to do with it. The three shows they have are rather enjoyable but they really don't look very professional. As for the movies the last one was really good. But as other people have pointed out considering the era that they were made in at least the very first one which was made in 2000 when CGI in general wasn't that bad the CGI in the 2000 movies was rather poorly done. So my hope would be that if someone wants to buy them they would give their live action productions the proper attention obviously we can't expect a free streaming service to have HBO quality productions but there are things that can be done that hopefully won't cost as much money. 1. For the dungeons & dragons TV channel you could do things like if producers know they don't have to deal with Hasbro. The people that created the OGL scandal hopefully we will be able to potentially see deals struck with people that are already are doing great stuff. Like knowing that the dungeons & dragons channel was going to be shown on Amazon I actually was kind of expecting that the older episodes of Legends of vox machina what's going to be shown on dungeons & dragons Adventures channel, however it ended up not on there. 2. In terms of gameplay shows just look at how nice of studio critical role has and I would imagine at least when they first started they didn't have as much money as Hasbro has. I don't know why we got such a tight cramped looking studio for encounter party. It seems like the right owners of the channel would give them a 😮more comfortable set.

Leadership at Hasbro: "Durr... plushie no make me yacht? Durrr..."

Some of their toy and IP brands are not as in-demand as Hasbro might hope.. While Transformers has been through various iterations and has a decent international appeal thanks to various live action and animated films and TV shows, other brands like GI Joe have only the dedicated 40+ year old fanbase interested in their products or characters. Some of their properties like ROM , Visionaries, and MASK have not experienced any sort of real promotion aside from an occasional Comic Con exclusive Marvel Legends figure or some other very limited uses such as a single GI Joe figure some years back that depicted a MASK character, but there were no other characters made, and certainly no vehicles. A small company named Boss Fight Studios has licensed the "Strawberry Shortcake" brand and is putting out a small selection of figures, but I really can't imagine that they are paying a king's ransom for those rights. This is why I would agree that outside of Magic The Gathering, D&D is the only other major property in their portfolio that I could see them getting serious money for.

I wish I had bought tencent stock when they acquired LoL. Maybe I’ll buy some now

If Hasbro did that, they'd be able to send another "You won, and so did we" email :P

I’ve been a fan of Larian since Divine Divinity. I’ve played D&D since the beginning of 2E. I am so with you on this! Not a fan of 5E as it stands for a multitude of reasons. But if this happens, I’ll be excited for a real 6E.

Pretty good idea. I hate the title. It is a little click baity. Sure if there was no question mark, it would be total click bait. I would have clicked if the title was something like "Why I think Larian should buy D&D". Okay the Hasbro/Tencent idea is pretty good. One hole though and I going to paraphrase Larian. When making BG3, they said it was difficult to near impossible to make a videogame campaign go past level 12 in 5e. Interestingly enough, I have heard KZread DM's complaining about high level 5e campaigns. BG2 (ToB) translated into a very play playable video game right up to level 31/41 depending on what class you took. Sure the graphics are outdated. Yes there are somethings from second edition that need tweaking. My point is, we need another edition of D&D or improve 2nd or 3rd edition. One more example to illustrate my point, there was an AD&D campaign (1st or 2nd edition, I can't remember) that went to level 100 Another thing you mention was that Hasbro would keep D&D Beyond and OneD&D. IDK. I think Hasbro should just sell off everything and bow out. I don't see why a video game studio wouldn't want to do the VTT. D&D beyond is a digital market place, character sheets and dice roller. Those things are going to have to change as D&D changes. I personally don't trust Hasbro with it. So there are a couple of other scenarios here. Since Hasbro has mismanaged D&D , Larian (with Tencen) can get it for cheap. But, Larian has to be ready to walk away from it and be willing to do Pathfinder video games. I would support them either way Another scenario is that we the D&D fans could crowdfund the purchase of D&D from Hasbro and then license the video games to Larian. With enough interest we could approach Tencent for a loan if needed. I love the idea of the players collectively making the ultimate D&D system instead of corporate pigs with dollar signs in their eyes.

I'm following most of this train of thought except I don't think Tencent would help Larian buy D&D but rather would buy it outright themselves as a property, then use their studios to generate content for D&D with Larian as a primary video games and tabletop publisher. Unless Larian has a lot more liquid assets that they could use to outright purchase D&D themselves (really not sure if they do), then Tencent might step back and just finance future video game content and just reap the 'free' money off of that deal.

I feel like everyone forgets that WotC CC'd the 5e system. Larian can make 5e games without WotC. While it would be cool for them to control it, there is no need to. They can just implement the ever popular 5e system into their own stories. Divinity Original Sin is great and renowned within its own right.

And a bonus motivation Larian would do much better with the franchise.. increasing the fan base and demand for Hasbro's virtual products

I don't imagine Tencent would share power

One more thing they can (and probably will) do. They can sell more shares. This will water down the share prices of current investors but it will inject cash into the company. Carnival basically did this during the covid years to stay alive.

I think that Larian would be the best company to have a controlling share and especially creative leadership of DnD. I think that they should be mostly hands off with the hard copies of the books, and let the OG authors (Ed Greenwood, and the like) write the novels. They could create a separate conglomerate for publishing TTRPG systems, and I think we could trust them to let good TTRPG devs do their thing. I would trust Larian to step in to stop stupid corporate stuff, and let the people who are passionate about making DnD make it work. Do I think that Larian should go solo on this, absolutely not, but I think that out of all the practical options they are the best option to have control over the creative side, and manage the overall direction of DnD. I think that Larian would be wise to look at possible partners for publishing TTRPG systems and novels. I think that the good will of saving DnD from Hasbro would be worth a great deal for any company with a half decent track record. Think of it this way, Larian could make a Kickstarter with the express purpose of purchasing DnD to save it, and I would imagine that many people from the video game and DnD communities would help them meet the goal. I don't know if that is the best idea, but I think that it is in the realm of possibilities. Just my personal thoughts, I figure that eventually Hasbro will look at selling DnD, and I can't think of a better company to at least get the ball rolling for this process. I would love to see DnD owned by a company not worried about shareholders, and who is familiar with the community, that is a very small list. Bit of a ramble, but hopefully regardless of who owns DnD they are always able to make amazing TTRPGS, and support the community.

Swen has stated previously that they want to make games, not branch off to something else. Given that they don't want to make licencing their engine a business, I seriously doubt they would want to shelve out half a billion to buy DnD.

If they wanted to part with book making rights, they would probably be better off selling to paizo. Granted, they probably won't do this: they are a rival publisher and would probably love to cannibalize D&D for pathfinder rather than run them both, particularly after having recently republished their core rules to be more distinct. Movie-wise the license is probably still with paramount? I bet they wouldn't just sell for one movie even if it didn't end up seeing the numbers they wanted. Game rights probably could go to Larian right now for good effect, but idk If they have the structure, resources or will to take on the ip as a whole.

This would be quite a bummer for me. I've had difficulty sticking with a BG3 play through so far. I love the writing, the characters, the art design, the music, but the character mechanics and combat are (opinion) a real step down from D:OS 2. It doesn't help that I keep dabbling with builds in Pathfinder WotW as well. The 5e system, while great for a streamlined entry to tabletop, just isn't well suited to crunchy tactical video gaming (opinion).

What about Amazon? They had a deal with LOTR and Games Workshop, and deal with books and games

I honestly don't know if Larian has enough money to buy the D&D IP. Forbes estimated in 2022 that the D&D IP brings in between $100M and $150M in revenue on an annual basis and has a net profit of $30M-$38M. Assuming this is accurate, valuing D&D as a business puts the value in the $200M-$250M range. However, that isn't a valuation of the IP; the IP is probably worth more (this was just an estimate from a business valuation calculator using publicly available data regarding revenue and net profit acting as if D&D were just a simple business, like determine how much you should sell your company for). Larian studios is only worth an estimated $120M. Their 2023 revenue was reported at $12M. It would be a struggle for a studio the size of Larian to generate funding to purchase an IP as valuable as D&D. Additional comparisons. Hasbro purchased D&D Beyond from Fandom in 2022 for $146M. Purchasing the entirety of the D&D franchise, IP, etc. from Hasbro would not be less than what Hasbro paid for one element that serves the overall business just two years ago.

@RollForCombat

5 ай бұрын

The D&D IP revenue includes everything, which is the books, D&D Beyond, and licensing deals. What I'm talking about is ONLY selling off the video game rights to D&D and maybe the books. Let's take the books out of it and have them sell ONLY the video game rights. That will not go for very much as right now it's making... well, nothing really. All the money they made was from Baldur's Gate 3 licensing fees. If Hasbro sells off the video game rights to Larian or another studio, Hasbro would get an infusion of cash, they wouldn't have to worry about that aspect of their company anymore, they would get the rights back automatically if a certain number of video games of a certain quality aren't produced in time. It's a win-win for Hasbro and Larian as they get the rights to make D&D video games "forever", Hasbro gets money now and later.

only issue I see is why would you not give the VTT to the people that should be making it

I was excited and on board with this prospect until you said TenCent... that is a deal breaker IMO.

@ranekeisenkralle8265

5 ай бұрын

aye.

@RavenGlenn

5 ай бұрын

It's beyond bizarre to see so many people crying about Tencent while D&D is already under the umbrella of Hasbro who has been showing even worse greed and tendencies.

@shaunhable

5 ай бұрын

@@RavenGlenn So we should be happy to trade one poor steward for another that isn't even in this country? Not says me.

I mean, I'd think it's more likely that Disney would purchase it before Larian. Smart money is on a Publishing company however. Or Amazon.

What about if they simply sell the forgotten realms license to a book publisher and a video game studio?

That sounds interesting and like a good idea, so I am pretty sure no CEO will come up with it. After all they did last year, I dont see anything "intelligent" like this coming.

The idea has legs, but it didn't work for CCP Studios (Eve Online) when they bought the rights to Vampire. Could you do a follow up video to explaiin the pitfalls of this deal in context of CCPs mishandling?

Larian itself owning DnD would be great and luckily they don't and will most likely never own a Majority stake in Larian otherwise I'm sure BG3 would have been full of microtransactions. If Larian owns the rights and can license it out to the other Tencent Studios, either for cash or a handshake deal I'd be all for that, but I would NEVER want Tencent to ever have anywhere near full creative control over DnD, its rules, its characters, or its video games.

I'm pretty sure Swen Vincke would consider it if Tencent could finance the deal...

Larian has done more to popularize D&D in the past 5 months than anything hasbro has done since absorbing wizards of the coast.

Disney/Marvel bought Fox to get Hulu so they could control competition around their new fledgling streaming service Disney+. Getting X-Men and the like back was a bonus.

Would this mean that they could make a vtt based on bg3?

Makes sense for getting the video game IP but not book printing. As much as Larian love D&D, I don't think they could convnice tencent to fund book printing.

I think it’s solid idea, BioWare lost the rights to Baldur’s Gate: Dark Alliance and we’re forced to spent a lot of time and money creating and nurturing Dragon Age to replace it. Likewise Rebellion bought UK comic 2000AD, reviving the book’s fortunes, and is developing games and movies on their various IP. My point is to not underestimate the intrinsic value of a well cultivated IP or just how bleak things are looking for Hasbro. This could absolutely happen; Tencent are all about diversification and division autonomy, so acquiring D&D makes absolute sense as a straightforward way to enhance their output, and gives Larian a way to both hothouse the IP and create a more unified and consistent cross-product ruleset. Right now, Hasbro’s options are limited with costly, short term solutions that doesn’t help the toy makers in a post-toy toy market. They’re pivoting to digital subscriptions anyway; a deal like this would guarantee a revenue stream without needed to plow money into physical products or game development.

Not a chance Larian purchases D&D. They were already on an upwards trajectory with both Original Sin games. The only thing D&D brought them was a license. With how fragile the gaming market is with studios hovering just below the AAA sphere, spending millions on an IP and putting out an OK could be enough to close that studio. The safer bet would be to do an EA/NFL exclusivity deal, where Larian gets to be the only one to make D&D games. Then potentially shutter the print side for adventures, making them online only. And doing a (semi?)annual player options book

Problem with your plan is Hasbro keeps D&D Beyond and the 2d/3d VTTs. That is where all the money to be made is (which is why Hasbro spent $$$M on them), so why would Larian buy a dying book biz and failed video game studios (though Hasbro kept one game studio - ex bioware devs doing a hard sci-fi RPG coming soon and looks good). Makes more sense for Larian to buy only the video games rights to use and license others to use D&D in video games, and not get dragged down with books and bad video games. Unlike your other predictions this is not based on your biz sense, but your I like BG3 sense. Larian has no reason to buy anything of D&D except the video game license, cut WOTC out of their share of future BG# profits. Tencent is not Larian's publisher though so they would not acquire the rights to use as they see fit, they just own a minority share of Larian itself (Tencent does not publish BG3) so Larian has the D&D rights not Tencent.

I suspect that a few months we will see the creation of a major new investment house designed to do investment for those that want to avoid woke, DEI and Chinese communist entanglements. People are talking about it. That house will have a lot of money; all the Red state pensions and government investment portfolios are moving out of DEI fast and going somewhere. Red states and cities run surpluses that they have to invest somewhere. There are smaller EU, British and Australian parallel projects. These conservative investment houses will be looking for things to buy and will employ people from the industry that know their stuff. That means jobs for those critical of WotC, Disney, etc. So don't be surprised if the entity that pops up to buy d&d is totally new but has an all start cast of former d&d creatives and has very new ideas.

I, personally, think that TenCent, through Larian, would like to get their hands on the digital side of D&D as well. It's kind of what they do, digital content in the form of video games. I do think that TenCent would be the primary buyer if Hasbro did choose to sell though.

@nowayjosedaniel

5 ай бұрын

Despite the xenophobic conspiracy theories that flood the internet, it seems the reality is Tencent is just a huge faceless investor. It would be unfeasible for such a massive entity to have vicious control over everything it invested in, since they invest in quite literally everything. The irrationality of all the terminally online xenophobic conspiracy theories surrounding Tencent, by itself, is a strong argument that none of the conspiracy theories are true. They simply dont make any sense. The biggest most seething example among gamers is Epic and Tencent. Tencent doesnt even own a majority, but triggered and emotionally pained Steam cultists insist it controls everything about Epic through some secret shadow cabal. Even though it cannot control the company without a majority share, that fact doesnt matter to irrational baseless conspiracy theories. I can easily see Tencent buying D&D just to sell its IP to the highest bidders anytime anyone wants to make a video game or movie, and nothing more.

So my question comes down to, and I believe by your presentation I understand the answer, but would Hasbo sell just the book and game rights or just dump WotC as a whole?