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Big Warning: This book refers to content that is only published in previous books. If you don't own barrowmaze (like I didn't) there are certain monsters that are just not explained at all beyond a brief one-line stat spread. Also the primary encounter areas aren't fulled keyed either. At 2:20 you can see in the top left the big "R" that is unkeyed and basically "do it yourself." This book has great things in it but it's underbaked for what it delivers. Expect to be writing most of the content yourself beyond the entrances.

@GregBurchell

4 ай бұрын

That's a Gillespie special. The guy also makes his students buy all his modules when they take his class. He's a dick, by all accounts.

You know, as much as like what I'm seeing, I'm at a point were the question of "When would I ever find the time to run a dungeon THAT big?" really imposes itself. Like I said, I love this but good heavens does it ever feel like way too much.

@mikeb.1705

5 ай бұрын

I hear that! I haven't run a massive dungeon since the early 90's. Lots and lots of smaller dungeons is how I roll these days.

@Ashbornking133

5 ай бұрын

You run megadungeons in your heart

@adamgalloy9371

5 ай бұрын

I think there is a couple different points of value to these megadugeons despite (like you said) it being highly unlikely a given group of players explores the whole thing. First, you can run it with a campaign for as long as it makes sense to and you'll never really worry about running out of stuff or needing to prep a ton. You just keep going until everyone is more or less satisfied with what they've accomplished there. Second, you can run the dungeon multiple times (potentially even with the same players) and get very different experiences. Third, like with any other source material you can always take out pieces you like and incorporate it into your own material, and this is A LOT of source material. Finally (perhaps the biggest advantage that you don't typically get from other types of source books) is that you can run an "open table" campaign where you have 10+ players split across different squads that show up each session exploring the dungeon from different points. The Alexandrian blog has a number of posts about this style of play and megadungeons are one of the best types of settings for it.

@mikeb.1705

5 ай бұрын

@@adamgalloy9371 I'm currently doing a "volunteer DM" stint at my local library. Early on I was going for 1-shots, but with the rotating character / player base, I decided to shift to a mega-dungeon theme. The premise being that the locals pay the adventurers to explore the dungeon and neutralize any potential threats to the town (via combat or negotiation). I also have the players map out their exploration as they go. That map then gets passed to the next group of players to add to / modify ~ like a "living document". So far it's been a lot of fun. 2 hour session, no big story-arc expectations, and fairly easy prep for me as DM. Some combat, some puzzle / trap / non-combat encounters, and a bit of "old school" feel for everyone 🙂

@MrBsberzerker

5 ай бұрын

I feel like the idea is this is just a.part of the world they can come to and explore whenever they want.

All of the Gillespie mega dungeons fit on the classic Avalon Hill "Outdoor Survival" game map that Gary Gygax used in his OD&D campaign

@MultiProGGer

5 ай бұрын

That is really cool

@Jibcutter

5 ай бұрын

I think author has a new worldmap made that will be a part of some crowdfunded Gazette for his world. A 34x34 Northern Reaches hex map

This reminded me that the ICE Moria supplement for MERP (Middle Earth Roleplaying) from back in the day had a random dungeon generating algorithm on paper - like '67: Descending stairs' to generate new maps. Looked tedious as hell to use and you certainly wouldn't want to try use it on the fly.

@mikeb.1705

5 ай бұрын

I still have my copy :-) ...definitely looks tedious, but probably good for working up something in advance if you need it for your campaign.

I bought this some time ago because I really liked Barrowmaze and I was very excited for a Moria-like experience. However, I think this one totally missed the execution. I read the whole thing and I found it tedious and uninteresting, like, all the good ideas were used in the previous ones. There are maybe a couple interesting things, but it's not near the quality of Gillespie's other ones. Very sorry about that because I really wanted to like it.

@mateofantasma

5 ай бұрын

To add to my comment. Moria deserved some wonder, some more tension. This dungeon does not have it, it's just 'dwarf skeleton', trap, coin, repeat. Missed opportunity. The art in the book is great, though.

@billrubine1318

7 күн бұрын

Agree 100%

I am running this at the moment. It absolutely evokes that Moria feeling, which is exactly what I am after. I don't mind that it's vanilla, I actually quite like me some vanilla fantasy. I would say that of Gillespie's dungeons this one requires the most work to make it complete, but it's also the most ambitious of all of them and it is trying not to compromise on the fantasy of a massive, sprawling labyrinth "vast and intricate beyond the imagination of Gimli, Gloin's son, Dwarf of the mountain race though he was". That fantasy is probably unpublishable if fully detailed (this book is already huge) so the decision is made to flesh out the entrances and a few thematic areas, and give a well developed skeleton for the underground hex crawl for the DM to flesh out themselves. Some people will find this unsatisfying, and that's fair enough, but for me it gets me far enough and gives enough support for me to feel happy finishing the job myself. I think having the available paths actually mapped out is really helpful because it lets you describe the underground navigation and give meaningful choices to players inside that navigation, and unlike if you were just making it up or abstracting it, it remains as permanent geography that the players can rely on and learn. I think that gives it a solidity that is really valuable in an exploration based game, and to me it's the most important part of the book. I did not use the geomorphs in the end though. It was time consuming when I used them the first time, and I wasn't particularly blown away with the result. Instead I sat down and thought about each of the unkeyed areas and gave them a thematic name and a couple of sentences of description. I tried to make them fit in with the rest of the dungeon in a relatively logical way and also to use the factions which are nearby to populate them when it made sense. I haven't fleshed all of these out fully, but enough that I could sketch a quick map in game and then keep that as I move forward. It's been enough for me to move forward with running the dungeon in confidence, and my players have actually spent the most time interacting with these self-generated parts and it is producing satisfying play. I can totally see why someone who wants a complete dungeon with no work required would not like this. This dungeon absolutely takes more work from the DM than Barrowmaze, Highfell or Forbidden Caverns. But I think if you are like me and fell in love with Moria as a kid reading Fellowship of the Ring, there's enough here to help you realise the dream of visiting a fantasy Moria with your friends.

That 'bottom of the page' party looks very similar to the same party in the random dungeon creation section of the 1st Edition DM's guide.

A work such as this is something I d use as a sandbox to add in whatever I needed to for it to fit the campaign. I really like the geomorphs for the on the fly situations.

@shawnfisher9976

5 ай бұрын

It’s a sandbox hexcrawl. Thats exactly it.

Another name for Moria was Dwarrowdelf. Based on it? You could say that

@johnnybigbones4955

5 ай бұрын

Yeah it's pretty explicitly based on Moria in the text as well.

I love these types of dungeons! Cut my gaming teeth on them in the early 80's. It's my dungeon style as well, but, unfortunately, not many enjoy these types today. I'd say I have pages of megadungeon maps, except they are all digital now, so maybe megabytes of dungeon material? Anyway, I wanna crawl through the underworld evading traps and monsters, kicking the butt of evil, and collecting gold, gems, and magic. Excellent, video, thanks!

Love the art and the runic strip that runs on top of the pages through the whole book. Nice touch.

9:56 Fun Galaxy Quest reference: Grabthar’s Great Hammer

@SavageGreywolf

5 ай бұрын

by the suns of Worvan, you shall be avenged!

Awesome! happy new year

Huge fan of Barrowmaze and Highfell, so I got this as soon as I heard of it.

I love the map element of a hex made of smaller hexes, it helps to establish just how large it is. Imagine finding a cave at the base of a mountain .. how long would it take to find the exit on the other side of the mountain? You could actually start your Campaign there.

Been waiting for this one!

Thanks for reviewing! I love Greg Gillespie's Megadungeons. They are masterpieces. And I actually quite like the cover art for this one, although I've been collecting the monochrome editions of the megadungeons.

The artwork reminds me of those Fighting Fantasy Games. Love it to bits :D

I stop here and there to read the pages. It is packed full of references. And yes, I noticed the clue in the PC sheet.

Great review! I'm not usually a fan of mega dungeons, but I'm sold on this one. Off topic, I would love to see your take on Old School Stylish!

Interesting to see a mixed response on this one. Seems we may be hitting a point of over-saturation in the megadungeon space.

Thanks, Ben. Like you, I like the artwork that shows scale and depth from the top of bridges and staircases. My main problem is: I can't see any elevation represented by the mapping in your pagethru. Maybe these chasms of representational dissonance are the extra price the DM must pay in anticipatory prep time, but this isn't a cheap book (unless someone sends you a copy). If this dungeon is deep, it would be good to have some cartographic representation, 'cause there's loads of megadungeons that map like this - but they don't all show illustrations of vertiginous depths. That should be a good thing, but I'd like it to be on the maps too.

@KILOBify

5 ай бұрын

That stuff might be in some of the art but it is not actually present in the adventures itself. You can roll to randomly determine a few features like that while traveling the hexmap but is has no marked impact on play.

@Wraithing

5 ай бұрын

@@KILOBify Thanks for your first hand knowledge. We all play and run our games differently, so I know this works for you, which is good because you have the book. I'm doubly grateful for your insight, because this lets me know it's probably not for me. If the cool locations depicted aren't in the maps for the adventure, then why would anyone put those pictures in? Seems a little daft to me. I was hopeful, but if I've got to add the coolest stuff myself and work out the elevation mapping (far more complex than random flat geomorphs), why would I need the book? And if all levels are flat, it would seem pretty dull for a dwarven megastructure. With that and Ben's comments, that's extremely useful. Thanks.

@KILOBify

5 ай бұрын

@@Wraithing Honestly it didn't work for me. Dwarrowdeep has a lot of problems and I regret the purchase. I won't enumerate at length, but it is a very unfinished work. Though calling it unfinished might simply be giving it the benefit of doubt. Happy adventures fellow gamer.

@Wraithing

5 ай бұрын

​@@KILOBify Yeah, I watched the pagethru again and it looks both too big and too small all at the same time. Maybe, too wide of ambition and too narrow of purpose. Hope you get some value back out of this 'cause that PoD isn't cheap. Best Wishes for 2024.

Amazing work... absolutely going to add this into my campaign setting!

This looks really good. I’m especially impressed with all the art and the sheer scale of the dungeon.

Glad to see the muddy cover called out. I made a new cover for this before I had it printed at lulu.

Great review...you're videos rock!

Ben missed a major point here and that is that this is a dungeon to set your games in. One of things that should be said is that it’s an amazing setting. It’s a perfect structure to set YOUR stories in. It oozes plot points and set pieces for encounters and battles. The DM can do a ton of stuff with this. With the whimsy dungeons like Willowby Hall, it’s programmed. Gillespie has created an awesome sandbox that you can build your epic tales in. It’s not “vanilla” by any means.

Sounds pretty cool dude!

Looks great! Gonna have to add this one to my collection!

That looks really cool.

i dont know that i would run this as is, but my goodness that art is fantastic.

If we come across a well in the floor, I toss in a coin...and maybe a bucket ☺.

I am very impressed with all the art, especially the hero continuity!

Great review, and definitely looks like a good inspiration for exploring massive dungeons. What do you thing of Dolhmenwood? I've have heard a bunch of good things, but it'd be awesome to get your feedback on it (maybe just as positive as the rest or what are the weaker parts)?

Thank you for this review! How easily can this be run without the geomorphs? Do you have to use them? Sadly, I want to use these dungeons with less prep and not more…

I've recently started a Greyhawk campaign on the Jewel River between Prin. Ulek and the Pomarj and am looking for flavor/lore on making a Dwur society feel "non-human". How is this product as a resource on all things dwarf?

First 😅. Seriously though. Great review. Beautiful book, I will have to see if I can find it and add it to my collection.

Those are all awesome. The Mega Dungeons.

"I am a dwarf diggy diggy hole digging a hole!" Big fan of barrowmaze and orderd dwarrowdeep yesterday. Can't wait to combine ideas from campaigns past/present and my copy of Moria (ice).

I love the art scroll on all the pages. Detailed, evocative, progressive, and doesn't take up half a page every time. Very cool. I love these in principle, but some of it seems like too much and not enough. There's a reason most dungeons are small. There's no point in exploring 100 rooms if 90 of them are basically empty or meaningless. And it's overkill if most of them significant. Still, ymmv. Looks like a lot of cool stuff anyway. And the back really makes it look like a 1e book.

I'm gonna have to get this at some point. I'm hoping they'll still have physical copies in stock by the time I can afford it. Also, 35 bones for a PDF that apparently doesn't even have bookmarks Jesus Christ.

@redbeard3498

5 ай бұрын

professional publishers that don't create bookmarks baffle me. Like I don't know how I'd even write and edit something of this scale without using bookmarks. Let alone use it.

I'm dming this one. Amazing megadungeon.

@brottongoodfellow5932

5 ай бұрын

What tips and tricks would you give for running it? Is there anything about running it you aren’t doing or anything your adding to make it run smoother/more fun?

@dadoscriticos

5 ай бұрын

@@brottongoodfellow5932 We`re using OSE in our game. I'd suggest to give the book a full read before starting. You don`t need to prep everthing beforehand, but is nice to have a macro undertanding of the setting in order to give player the freedom to go wherever they want. In the dungeoncrawl, is nice to have an adversary roster to add more dynamic into the exploration.

@johnnybigbones4955

5 ай бұрын

@@brottongoodfellow5932 Decide roughly what is in the user generated sections before the game, and try to link them to the main encounter areas and entrances. Pre-roll random patrols so you can easily grab them and run them if the players run into them. Have some ideas for interesting features or blockages in the tunnels so that you can spice up the travel sections a bit.

How do you map such a huge thing? Do you show the players parts of it? Do you draw yourself as a GM?

Wow that looks cool. A few times you mention it is part of a series. Does that mean that they have an overall story, each has a level range to play in order or anything like that?

@treydudley7966

5 ай бұрын

they are not sequential. each “adventure” is a complete mega dungeon that begins from level 1. The only connecting feature is that the nearest major city (which is really just a place to shop and does not feature prominently) is the same. Barrowmaze takes place to the south west of the city, Caverns if Archaia takes place to the south east, Highfell to the north west, and Dwarrowdeep to the north east. You could connect them if you wanted to, but there’s nothing in the products that depends upon any of the others.

@johnnybigbones4955

5 ай бұрын

I would say they don't really have stories at all, but are adventure locations with factions up to various things, but no "plot" as such. The plot is what happens when your players interact with the location.

Ben mentions this is a pretty "vanilla" megadungeon, does anyone have megadungeon recommendations for something on the more wonderous/gonzo side?

@QuestingBeast

5 ай бұрын

Anomalous Subsurface Environment

You say that this is a bit vanilla. What is your recommendation for a more weird and gonzo type of megadungeon that would be easy to run with Knave 2e?

@SavageGreywolf

5 ай бұрын

Gillespie's Highfell is a bit more wild and weird, if you're looking for something with a similar amount of work put into it. Highfell is a complex of wizards' towers flying in the sky and occasionally warping into other dimensions.

@JordyWilliams1619

5 ай бұрын

If you want true gonzo, Anomalous Subsurface Environment is the way to go.

@mechanussunrise

5 ай бұрын

Anomalous Subsurface Environment. Stonehell in places

@johnnybigbones4955

5 ай бұрын

I'd second Stonehell as starting vanilla and then getting weird. Castle Xyntillan is also a pretty good shout, very whimsical.

@bjhale

5 ай бұрын

There's also Arden Vul, but I would wait for it to go on sale.

ROCK AND STONE!

What took so long for.this review ? Thanks for doing it . I have this on order and barrowmaze. Looking forward to playing these with the Dragonslayer rpg.

I love it! Gimme

Hell yes Ben

I was very disappointed with Dwarrowdeep. The rooms were all very bland and the setting felt bland to me. The reliance on "do it yourself" defeats the purpose of a megadungeon. Not a fan personally.

@Grimmlocked

5 ай бұрын

as a dm trying to go from "I only have the confidence to run prewritten adventures" to "I homebrew everything" i've been running htis for like 12 sessions and it's a great midway point

@KILOBify

5 ай бұрын

Yeh, Dwarrowdeep is pretty terrible. One of the few OSR purchases I have entirely regretted. So much of it is terrible to use at the table (its travel rules) or entirely incomplete (every single keyed location...)

@IanBoyte

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, I'm really not into Gillespie's products, for this and other reasons.

@GrinningAries

5 ай бұрын

I am curious about this one, but it seems others are disappointed, so also pretty wary. What aspects do you feel were demanding in regards to a DIY expectation for owner of the product?

@Grimmlocked

5 ай бұрын

@@GrinningAries the BIG elephant one is the secondary enounter areas. There are 40 of them on the map. there is a generator for them in the back of the book that's a couple pages long and htey fill out the hard to reach corners of the mountain. they take me like 15-20 minutes to roll up and i just keep 2-3 of them on hand before any given session. I think the mistake people are making is thinking they need to prepare the whole mountain ahead of time.

Been waiting on this one for a while! Exciting stuff! Can't wait for his final two megadungeons! Has anyone seen if his game Dragonslayer was released yet?

@cistern

5 ай бұрын

In roughly two weeks. I ran into Greg this weekend where he showed me a copy of the book. It's beautiful. He specifically said he hopes two weeks is the magic number.

@leandronc

5 ай бұрын

"Final two"? What do you mean? Didn't know there was more on the works, much less that there were exactly 2!

@pixelamerica6601

5 ай бұрын

@@leandronc Greg said he'd make sox megadungeons, he's made four so far. Then he took a break to release his personal ruleset, Dragonslayer, which I assume is going to be similar to most OSR rulesets, and then he's going to make the rest of the megadungeons for Dragonslayer (easily compatible)

@pixelamerica6601

5 ай бұрын

@@cistern is it any good?

@cistern

5 ай бұрын

​@@pixelamerica6601 I didn't play it, just paged through it. It sounded like it was a halfway point between B/X and 1e. He basically cleaned up the parts of the two systems that he didn't like and put it in a very pretty book. The line art alone might be worth a buy for some. The book is absolutely stuffed with art.

This looks interesting, but the complexity of the maps and spreads is pretty intimidating

Is it D&D 5e stats or something else?

The art is gorgeous. Not sold on the rest of the book though - the dungeon itself looks like a case of quantity over quality.

Dwarrowdweep

I tried this one out as a player and found it very boring, though a lot of that probably boils down to the fact that the GM and most of the players were 5E refugees trying out OSE for the first time and that a lot of time each session was eaten up by the GM and the party's mapper fiddling around with Foundry trying to get the display just right.

I'm excited to play this with Greg's Dragonslayer RPG that's coming out soon!

The fact that it’s fairly “vanilla” means that it’s easily adaptable to many home campaigns, and it ought not be too hard to add in some unusual aspects of a home campaign if you’re running a more weird setting.

Greg’s stuff is great. But you need to like dungeon crawls. I can’t decide if Arden Vul or Greg’s stuff is better. Personally I think Arden Vul just beats it out because it has some weirdness I like.

Not a fan of the room descriptions. I prefer the official OSE products layout for example with important features in bold.

@redbeard3498

5 ай бұрын

yeah, Gillespie is stuck back in time in a lot of ways. That one makes his material less playable than it could be.

@KILOBify

5 ай бұрын

hundreds of empty rooms with dwarfs. what is there not to like?

@yert9362

5 ай бұрын

@@redbeard3498 certainly in a lot of ways lmao

I love Greg Gillespie's books. Even though I've never run a megadungeon for very long, these books have SO much content that I can steal for my campaigns. They're also so well in tune with classic Gygaxian fantasy that they perfectly slot in with old modules and settings.

>is reviewing a mega dungeon >Video is only 7 minutes long

Isnt Greg kinda a jerk?

You know if I were releasing a book after Jan 06 I imagine I wouldn't have put an odal rune in there 7:03