5 martial arts KZreadrs. 7 self-defense challenges. 1 winner. The Ultimate Self-Defense Championship is officially happening! Learn more about it here: www.indiegogo.com/projects/ultimate-self-defense-championship

@StEvUgnIn

Жыл бұрын

Hello :)

@theovets

Жыл бұрын

Wht jesse enkamp is in the logo(blond with karate gi) but it won't participate in challenge?

@Dumplestiltzken

Жыл бұрын

Get master wong

@user-wg6fe5uj8r

Жыл бұрын

What are Sifu Jacob's details? I'd love to be able to follow him to if he has a page of any kind. Thanks!

@ErnestoGuevara-fb9ip

Жыл бұрын

6

This guy knows what’s up. A huge percentage of almost ALL traditional martial arts forms is grappling. It’s maddening how many martial artists practice these forms religiously without any idea what the movements are for.

@hattorihaso2579

Жыл бұрын

Loved your videos about this topic coach

@Haboogie

Жыл бұрын

Nice to see Ramsey views and supports his fellow youtube comrades. I love both channels. Keep up the great work both Ramsey and Rokas.

@Haywood-Jablomie

Жыл бұрын

Many styles of Karate have sooooooo many Jujutsu techniques that are totally ignored or misunderstood. It's rather sad

@hgv85

Жыл бұрын

This is why I quit Karate. My school practiced too much nonsense (though based on their advertising and the first month of training I thought it was going to be legit). Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to find another Karate school in town that looks promising, so I’ve switched to an MMA gym. 🤷‍♂️ I’d go back to Karate if I found something good though.

@rosa96734

Жыл бұрын

Ramsey Dewey's troll here in America here to letting you know learning BJJ at a basic level will help if start wing chun. Your sticky hands turn into openings for positions in scrambles. At the same time positioning will set up strikes or traps if you are looking for tap, naps or snaps. This advice isn't sponsored but X Martial but go out there and train because you'll see for yourself lol

I will say, a lot of movements that look silly suddenly appear much _less_ silly when you view them as grapples rather than strikes.

@abramlittle7102

Жыл бұрын

Truth. I think the reason alot of martial arts get misinterpreted over the years is because grappling isn't for the weak and lazy plus it's less aesthetically pleasing to look at

@doctorprofesor3876

Жыл бұрын

@@abramlittle7102 I would say it is more about "masters" and students being unable to decode the "techniques" inside forms and all those traditional trainning resources. A lot of people blatantly propagate ignorance or partial views in their own styles and the world judges those styles with those standards unfortunately.

@kungfucius10

Жыл бұрын

@@abramlittle7102 I do think wrestling is aesthetically pleasing in terms of simplicity, and functionality.

@ISkandarash

3 ай бұрын

It's only your perception that's silly ...

When I started BJJ, I told them I had "some grappling experience" as I'd been doing "kung fu" for 18 years. I was met with some eye rolls. After a few weeks, I was known as a "fast learner." Kung fu has gotten a bad rep...

@jestfullgremblim8002

11 ай бұрын

Yeah

@watamutha

8 ай бұрын

I wouldn't call kung fu grappling...I call it takedowns, yes.

@zakquack

8 ай бұрын

@@watamutha "kung fu" isn't even a name of a martial art, it's what westerners call chinese martial arts. There's a great deal of diversity in "kung fu" schools.

This is wild. At just 3 minutes I recognized a baguazhang second palm form. I've been practicing bagua forms for years, but he put it in a completely new context. Definitely need to learn more about this guy.

@sergiobatista2272

Жыл бұрын

It's not surprising to me. Actually the way I learned kung-fu styles (including Ba Gua or Pa Kua) had many grappling or wrestling techniques in the forms...but that was in the 90s (maybe now things are different). Actually there was 60 to 80% grappling or wrestling. Actually even wing Chun has grappling (10 to 30%). Hung gar, choy li fut, pa Kua, tang Lang, eagle claw, and many more they all have a lot of grappling.

@Qigong18

Жыл бұрын

Cheng Tinghua had a Shuai Chiao background before learning Bagua from Dong and brought a lot of the wrestling aspect into it. Bagua stepping is a very sophisticated steping system to enter your opponent center to grapple them and usually throw them on the ground.

@sergiobatista2272

Жыл бұрын

@@Qigong18 yes, Ba Gua is very sophisticated. I only learned the basics of this style, because it was a very difficult style to learn and difficult to apply it in a fight (difficult for beginners). I wasn't necessarily a beginner in martial arts but still struggle to apply it for combat, because I am a more direct oriented stryker, and ba Gua is circular... Another thing I didn't like about ba Gua (and many other styles) is that they turn theyr back to the opponent... The only martial art in the world that doesn't turn their back is wing Chun, that's why I chosed to practice wing Chun for the most part (I also practiced a bit of everything, before coming to wing Chun). These delicate arts (like wing Chun, Ba Gua, tang Lang, xing yi, etc...they can be very effective, but they are not for beginners (or maybe a beginner can still prosper, but it won't be easy...it requires, a good teacher, a good training, and many years of dedication.

@sidlee3118

Жыл бұрын

My friend teaches the same thing. He teaches that xingyiquan is actually a short-spear technique, and that taichi and bagua are wrestling techniques. Take a look here: kzread.info

@kenban8533

Жыл бұрын

@@sidlee3118 Thanks for the link! I looked into Xingyi and the connection to spear techniques is apparent. Only wish I had time to investigate xingyi spear techniques, as they look very fast and direct.

A Sanda practitioner once told me Chinese Wrestling is the most important historical Chinese traditional martial art. Makes sense given the large amount of cultures in China and how omnipresent wrestling is in nearly any culture. Nearby cultures like Mongolia place huge cultural importance on their wrestling too.

@Nahgittrippin

10 ай бұрын

Shuai Jiao?

@YTPrule

10 ай бұрын

@@Nahgittrippin Shuai Jiao was codified somewhere in the 1920s-30s but the phrase itself predates its modern counterpart. Especially many Northern styles emphasize wrestling greatly and helped when they formulated it.

@anotherboredperson

2 ай бұрын

Theres a lot of variation because cultures/distance, but shuai jiao on some level was considered a baseline skill for many kung fu styles- which were themselves expansions to the skillset. Young boys wrestled. It was prolific. China even had a broad history of pretty sophisticated trips. Without this context- many of the arts simply dont make sense. Pugilism is considered a higher skill- not a replacement skill.

Think about why the medieval-ish martial arts would be grappling/wrestling based. Armor. If you are fighting armored opponents you need to ground them quickly. Once armor is abandoned you see many more striking styles or revival of striking styles from ages before armor was well developed.

@jestfullgremblim8002

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. That is why Japanese Jujutsu was so grappling heavy

@sherrattpemberton6089

Жыл бұрын

It doesn't take long to abandon the idea of punching someone wearing a coat of plates in the gut. On the other hand a good front kick is surprisingly effective

@pavolverescak1712

Жыл бұрын

grappling is also involved in weapon disarms and such

@krystofcisar469

Жыл бұрын

True, medieval fencing manuals from europe usually spoke a lot about self defense and for that (the unarmed part) they focused mostly on wrestling for chokes and joint locks and defensive front kicks.

@ciragoettig1229

11 ай бұрын

@@krystofcisar469 right, the material we have preserved to some depth on unarmed play from say 14-17 centuries europe includes both italian (Fiore) and german (Ott's system and various authors in that tradition) sources, and its basically grappling, stand-up I think. Now I don't know if the idea that armour is the main reason is correct at least for europe -- or if they simply thought wrestling effective (or just fun - it existed as a sport already) in general. Some of the context is def civilian though.

What Oliver said about gladiatorial combat made me think of pro wrestling. Lots of big exaggerated moves that look like they could cause massive damage. But when you look at a lot of knockouts, etc in combat sports, the finishing blow sometimes doesn't even look like it could have done much damage.

@micaylapresley

Жыл бұрын

That's because the impact goes through them, instead of stopping at them. KF looks cool, but they don't use proper body mechanics to generate that force and they don't understand leverage at all

@merkins87

Жыл бұрын

The knockout blow is typically the one you don't see/brace for, more often than what looks like the strike they put the most effort into.

@varanid9

Жыл бұрын

@@micaylapresley Uh, no, at least, the southern Chinese boxing uses pretty much the same body mechanics as western boxers.

@rohitchaoji

Жыл бұрын

@Baron Von Hexenbrenner I think it can also apply to the striking in some ways. Especially all the punches, which are initiated with a long loading-up motion, rather than the kind of tight punching you'd see in boxing. Although I'd still say some of the kicks in pro wrestling look impressive and don't have the same kind of long windup before they throw it, so it looks a little more authentic. I certainly agree about the grappling part, though, since in some cases, the submissions only differ in their finishes, and you're not actually applying the kind of leverage that would break or damage your opponent.

I've been doing Tai Chi for a few months as I've gotten older I could not do the martial arts I used to when I started studying it and researching it I was surprised to find out most of it's wrestling techniques or grappling it surprised the hell out of me thanks for what you do

@YTPrule

Жыл бұрын

In some demonstrations of Tai-Chi, it looks very alike Greco-Roman and other wrestling. Some are weapons based but for others, there’s tons of wrest.

@johndough8115

Жыл бұрын

There are many instances of Grappling and Throws. But Tai Chi's main weapon, is Internal Strikes. The ability to END the OP, with a single Hit. This is seemingly not really taught or expressed to the masses. But its a factual Truth. Anyone that has masterclass level Fajing power... you dont want to be within an arms range of them... else you wont be walking away from that encounter. You will be carried away in a body bag.

So happy this information is being covered by a large martial arts KZread channel. Chinese martial arts, and traditional martial arts in general, have such a huge basis in wrestling. And understanding this context is so important when it comes to making these arts effective for fighting again. And while I’m jealous I wasn’t the one to be able to present this on your channel first, I am incredibly happy that this information is reaching a wider audience

@jaywilliams6250

Жыл бұрын

I’m sure he just got a buzz reading “large martial arts KZread channel” haha

@dorkvader2673

Жыл бұрын

How do you make those arts effective for fighting again yo?If a martial art is not effective for fighting/self defence it is pointless to practise yadamean.

@naj4261

Жыл бұрын

@@dorkvader2673 again? There are still a lot of wushu (in West: Kung Fu) that are still practical. Wushus are divided into these more dance like arts and Combat arts. The former however sold better to Western costumers.

@dorkvader2673

Жыл бұрын

@@naj4261 Kung Fu is not divided into combat and dance arts nothing in Kung Fu got anything to do with dancing yo.The Wushu style is based on traditional Kung Fu but its included acrobatics with high speed to make it look real cool for the public.Give a Wushu practicioner a real forged sword and he won't be able to do much with it yadamean.I never said that Kung Fu wasnt effective I just wondered how anyone would make a style great again if it sucks already from before,like Nanbudo.

@MrMattias87

Жыл бұрын

Uh huh, it's the same with okinawan karate, it is been said that the kata bunkai are really grappling techniques other than striking.

This was so freaking cool and enlightening. It is mind boggling how so much "truth" behind kung fu forms seems to have been lost over time.

@johndough8115

Жыл бұрын

These are half truths and falsehoods. There is Grappling in Chinese arts. However, applications prefer Lethal output strikes, as the Default. And his description of altering form from application, is also 100% Wrong. I can maintain perfect form in heavy contact sparring. They cant... and so, rather than accept that they need more efforts to master what they learned... they try to Bend these arts to suit their Bad Form. Basically, they are just trying to De-Ball, the only remaining combat arts left in the world.

@miner2119

Жыл бұрын

​@@johndough8115🤡🤣

I had done TKD for a total of 2 years by the time I took my first Judo class, it was crazy how the moves from the forms would start to pop up in my head as we did Randori or Kumi Kata or some form of drill, probably the craziest one was the double block from Dan Gun (second TKD form) wich was the most useless thing in my head to block two different places at the same time until my Judo sensei told me "before throwing your opponent you have to unbalance him" and proceded to have me grab right hand on collar, left hand beneath the right elbow of my partner and proceed to pull him towards me as rotate my elbows (that were previously pointing at the floor but now they point to my sides) and look at my left wrist (as I was "checking the time on my watch), I was like "I know this but can't remember from where..."

@skyereave9454

Жыл бұрын

Same with some of the standing blocks. Some of them are basically an armbar of you use ot as such and you're then taught to punch as you pull the "blocking" arm to your hip. Really made so much sense.

Respect man you are amazing you made me start martial arts in the last year. I am doing mau thai and jiu Jitsu. You really save my life, you made healthier and happier

@MartialArtsJourney

Жыл бұрын

Wow man! This means a lot to me. Thank you for sharing. Keep owning that journey!!

About damn time I saw someone with a genuine understanding of "why" & following a genuine pursuit of the way of understanding. Great video. A lot of people can really learn from this philosophy & grow their own way.

@RKmndo

Жыл бұрын

Some sifus teach the how AND the why and when.

I will say some of the techniques from kenpo have helped me tremendously in grip fighting in judo/bjj. I also had a story or coming to realize most of what I’d trained was useless and switching up training, but some of it I was able to transfer. In bjj not so much, but in judo gi/no gi (our coach Tarek was an old school Olympian who competed in Sambo) a lot of what I had thought useless turned out pretty useful once I started connecting the dots. It’s all a process, and being humbled daily. We’ve got a kid named Dylan who won nationals, and although were both brown belts there’s no comparison in me and him. This kid never wrestled in his life and year 1 he got 2nd at states, year 2 he got 1st and it came from training judo since he was 8.

Rokas, maybe you will not read this but Wing Chun kung fu is the same. The point is to be close, clinch and so on. You see it in the more dynamic Chi Sao and when you practice dynamic. It is grappling with some striking, "trapping" and not a striking art as many think. That is why the punches are short and why you turn just a little and push more of the floor. Good video! 🙏🏻

@MMABreakdowns

Жыл бұрын

Man, I thought I was the one that saw wing Chun this way. Were you taught this or did you figure this out on your own?

@ivanildocafu3452

Жыл бұрын

Yes you are right, you can see how this wing chun guy used Wing Chun Grappling to win this awesome fight: kzread.info/dash/bejne/o3WCj7yEgc_bk8o.html

@mixck

Жыл бұрын

@@MMABreakdowns A little bit of both I would say. I know that my Sifu told me that you 1. bridge the gap (only part of striking range). 2.Then you have to be close and cover and just pressure with your structure, sweep or grapple the opponent, and throw out your strikes when you unbalance the opponent or distract him. And that is what the "inch" punch is for, that short range of punches. But it was after watching many fails on youtube and trail and error in sparring that it really landed with me.

@mixck

Жыл бұрын

I'm gonna just lay it out there that many wing chun people, including the "masters" just think you can do the system and so on without sparring or some kind of pressure testing. And that would affect any martial art. Edit: Yes this is very bad!

ramesy dewey has said this for a while and it's super believable for a culture that has such a deep military and martial arts history.

@michaelsexton8885

Жыл бұрын

He said so on this video lol

@boliusabol822

Жыл бұрын

You write "ramesy dewey has said this for a while"

Thanks Rokas, you inspired me to make myself healthier, i've been doing boxing for about a couple of months now!

@MartialArtsJourney

Жыл бұрын

That's so cool! We essentially started boxing at the same time :) Glad to share the journey with you

Mixing striking and wrestling has always been my favorite part of mma and ive been learning more traditional karate recently and getting into bunkai of grappling and all that good stuff. Its all so interesting and fun to train

Thankfully, my Goju-Ryu sensei had the same mindset when it came to the Kata and self defence principles of Karate.

@TBButtSmoothy

Жыл бұрын

any resources available? ive been studying orthodox karate for a few months now and its mostly kyokushin-y style with some grappling, but 0 info on grappling from kata

@thunderkatz4219

Жыл бұрын

In my style of karate Okinawan karate we have grappling and it’s amazing I never knew until you go research

@hysterical5408

Жыл бұрын

@@TBButtSmoothy While it might require some thinking through/putting together. The Bubishi is a book which contains a lot of Kata application (known as Bunkai) which is exactly what you're looking for.

Makes sense, after starting BJJ I felt like I understood karate kata so much more.

This is your best video yet. Understanding the aim of an ancient style, while focusing on the practicality of real combat. Well done.

Brilliant. IMO, this is one of the best video you have made. I grew up learning various traditional martial arts since i was 7 yo. Started from different style of Silat, Okinawa Karate, and various KungFu styles. But for the past two years i've been switching to learn MMA since i found the effectiveness and applicable techniques for a street fight / self defense. Yet, I still believe that traditional martial arts is actually powerful. Please do more collaborations like this to fill-in the gaps between traditional and modern martial arts.

"Briddging the gap" is where most martial training fail in an unregulated fight. Being able to transition from striking distance to grappling distance while maintaining pressure and control over the fight is crucial. Most MMA training just go for a leg takedown because they don't have the environmental risks of taking a fight to the ground. But in a bar/alley with broken glass or in a group fight situation, this approach become a liability. Training timing and takedown methods from a standing grappling perspective is much more difficult but will keep you in a safer position, especially against multiple attackers.

I trained Eagle Claw Kung Fu for about 3 years, back in the 2000s. Sadly, the sparring in my school was very limited, and for most of the time it was limited to strikes only. The sparring sessions with something more to it barely happened and still really lacking on grappling stuff. So on one hand I had these promissing techniques with throwdowns, clinching, joint-locks (I even saw some more advanced students doing ground wrestling stuff) even some elbow and knee strikes but never had the chance to train it as an actual fight method. I blamed myself a lot for years instead of the training method for my lack of fight skills. When the late 00's/early 10' s UFC fever was happening I could see some similar techniques being applied by fighters from other styles, so I never got too caught in the "these techniques don't work, never work and never will" narrative, but still coudn't pinpoint why they didn't work for me and other TMA pratictioners. Content like yours and Ramsey's kinda confirms and add a lot to some of the insights I had about it in the past decade. It's also very refreshing to see people in the Kung Fu community doing a good work against bad pratices and bullshido that people associated with the martial art. I kinda regret abandoning the style so early now.

@johndough8115

Жыл бұрын

Eagle Claw has a lot of Grappling in it... but like all Chinese combat arts, it features a lot of Striking. When some dude is attempting to end your life... you dont play Nice with them. You End them, instead. This is how these arts are designed. If you Lack the ability to have lethal levels of output at close ranges... then that isnt the arts problem. That is your problem... for not training your body to be able to achieve that level. And this is why people like you, so easily fail... or give up... or make things up about how you have to change / alter the art. Ive developed masterclass level Fajing output. It was easy to KO fighters, with less than 6 inches of runway, and I never needed more than about 15% of what I was capable of delivering... to do it. And that was with Impact absorbing MMA gloves on, which vastly reduces the Initial impact transfer potentials. Get yourself a hanging canvas wallbag, and fill it with about 15 to 20 lbs worth of steel BBs. Free-Hang it from a metal chain. And practice hitting it barefisted for 1hr every night. Use a proper Dit Da Jow. Start out with 12 inches of distance... and eventually work your way down to 1", over the course of over 3 months of daily efforts. Furthermore... many of the other methods in Chinese combat, that are also seen to fail.. is also usually due to a lack of full mastery + a lack of sparring experience. You not only need to build the body up properly (attributes), but you also need to fully master each movement on its own. Then, even if and when you have 100% perfect form in your moves... you still need to fully master the ability to use them in heavy contact sparring. 99% of the time.. its not the techniques that fail... its the incorrect use and incorrect / flawed applied form... Example: KF dude got pushed / taken down quickly and easily. Why? Because he was in a straight-leg stance (no knee bend at all). Has a much higher center of gravity. No ability to absorb shock, using the legs as "Springs". No Rooting in his stance. And no ability to channel the OPs energy, into the ground... Etc. Example 2: KF dude goes to defend a feinted kick with his hands... when instead, he should have used Leg Fencing to take care of it. This opens his head, and upper body up to the OPs handstrike attacks. (incorrect application) I could go on and on, about various flaws, and what causes all of these failures. But again, the simple reason, is the lack of Mastery. And in todays day and time, most people dont want to invest enough time and efforts, into full mastery of anything that they learn. Learning does not equate to skills. And some developed skills, do not equate to Combat level Mastery. I like to say, that trying to fight with a non-mastered set of techs... is like trying to cut a Tough piece of over-cooked steak, with a dull plastic butterknife.

great video! We need more videos like this that explain how kung fu works! 😊

It's beautiful to see all of this eastern styles all believed to be bullshido getting back on the track, it goes to show that every martial arts is about learning to be as versatile as possible when it comes to protect yourself

@dtibvgz8441

Жыл бұрын

Well, everything is viable, and everything is bullshito at the same time. As in most channels they are stating 'this style has valid schools and bad schools', the issue for me is 'what's the chance of going in a good or bad school'. If a friend who have never visit a martial art class or gym tell me "I live here (random location). I wish to train some effective martial art, what would you suggest" - based on me not knowing the schools nearby personally, would probably send him to popular western sports instead of mystical Eastern ones.

@michaelterrell5061

Жыл бұрын

I don’t think that way of thinking always applied though. There were lots of Eastern martial arts stylists who participated in Martial arts competitions in Japan(like Pancrase and Pride) and even the UFC like Chuck Liddell.

@boxingjacks

Жыл бұрын

lot is still BS. Most teachers have no idea how to apply the techniques. They often have never even been in real fights. when they are they lose the technique and turns into some joke school yard fight. Also don't confuse someone doing a demo with a willing partner with someone actually able to apply it against a resisting partner.

@michaelterrell5061

Жыл бұрын

@@boxingjacks You wouldn’t know I’m the count of having never trained in any of the styles with any of the legitimate teachers of the style. Judging a style because of bad “teachers” is ridiculous because every style has bad teachers.

Love this content 🎉! It answered so many of my questions in posture application. Very great full ! Thank you 🙏

This is awesome and informative! It’s clear cut when you see “a move” that is present in many different arts, it’s a keeper. We are limited by our anatomy and what works pops up again and again through time immemorial. What does not work is more clear now than ever before as we have a video record or rather access endless hours of footage…

I think most people forget that bjj, judo and a LOT of bujutsu descend from a lineage directly down from Chinese martial arts, a lot of Japanese things are adaptations of things chinese people did first, so one can see a direct descendence of old Chinese king fu wrestling moves and joint locks in jujutsu and judo, which then led to bjj, so while now they are very very different martial arts, it should be no surprise that the elements of wrestling and grappling in these martial arts are similar since they all have a common ancestor

@tichtran664

8 ай бұрын

Yeah like how shuai jiao looks a lot like judo. Except Chinese wrestling have no submission and use leg grap unlike judo. But definitely judo was influenced by Chinese wrestling.

A lot of people see people do kung fu forms and think there punching and just swinging there arms around to look cool but a lot of the moves done are wrestling ,and they often have two moves one is how to do the takedown ,and the other is how to defend against it a good example is the “seven star fist” I channel that well demonstrates this is pureshaolin.

I'm happy to see you trying something new and unusual and showing this to us.

that makes so much sense!! great wrestling applications or what has always looked like striking or just fancy posing. great work!

Wonderful clip Rokas. Yes. Most people really underestimate how much wrestling is in many kung fu styles. Loved this one.

Yup! Most kung fu is applied at close range. If you see something in the form that is not obviously a strike, chances are that its a grappling move. Its in this frame of reference that all the different stances make sense.

CHEN STYLE TAI CHI is among the most incredible and effective wrestling/grappling set of technique, the grounding of high level practionners is unbelievable. I use Chen Tai Chi in French Savate boxing and regular boxing. You should checks masters like: Zhang Dongwu, Wang Xian or Chen Xiaowang and add "applications" or "Tui shou" to their names, you will be amazed

This is true. However the forms are multipurpose. Striking while grappling. No real big difference from knees and elbows thrown and exchanged in the muay thai clench. Small differences like "dirty" strikes like eye and throat attacks, foot stomping. Techniques also found in Japanese Jujitsu and Hapkido.

This is also true for Okinawa karate. A lot of the applications to the forms have been lost. I think that training with pure forms was the worst thing to happen to eastern martial arts.

My most favourite aspect of Shotokan was that a strike could be a block or a grapple or a throw. My fav aspect of JKD was discard the useless and use the useful. My fav aspect of Silat, was improvised weapons and clinch fighting. My fav aspect of BJJ was dominance on the ground and being really comfortable with grappling. My fav of Wrestling is the natural inclination that all Martial arts came from grappling. My fav aspect of Sambo is that those not often publicized Forms can Dominate competitions and still remain relatively unknown. Excellent Video as always Rokas!

It’s great to see taolu be used practically. But none of this is a substitute for live drilling and sparring. Always good info from your channel Rokas!

3:26 The truth of the matter. The wisdom attained from experience was perfectly captured and expressed through a saying. He said it can be "... a block a lock a blow a throw...". Not necessarily one thing. If you think something is only just for striking, you're wrong. If you think something is only just for grappling, you're wrong.

This is so useful. I studied kung fu a when I was younger. Thought it was useless for a long time. I was angry at how much time I wasted. As I got older I started studying Muay Thai. Noticed a lot of the stances and forms were similar to clinch techniques. The muscle memory I built from the forms had a great degree of carry over. Of course they don’t look as cool or as mystical as performing a form but the mechanics are similar. Anyone else notice this?

@onimekyo7633

Жыл бұрын

of course, when i practiced wing chun, i don't understand most of it. after i practiced muay thai a few months and now bjj, i finally understand about wing chun you must explore the technics first to use it well

@johndough8115

Жыл бұрын

A student will always be fairly Useless... until what is learned is not only understood... but also, developed to full Masterclass levels of output. In Muay Thai, there are far less things to learn... and so you develop a much greater level of Mastery, in a fraction of the time. Of course, MT is extremely limited in its tools.. so you will quickly run into a wall... where you will no longer progress as a combat fighter. KF, can give you more tools, to be able to utilize. But you will need a ton of time and dedicated daily efforts, to reach working combat skills... let alone, Masterclass levels. All arts contain many of the same principles. And most of the arts you see today, came from the Chinese arts technologies... spreading to other countries. I believe Karate, was derived from the basics of White Crane Kung Fu. Visiting Japanese travelers, spent a good deal of time learning it... and eventually took it back to Japan. Originally they called it China Hand... but as time went by, they chose to call it "Empty Hand" (which is the English translation of "Karate"). Finally, nothing is ever "Wasted" as far as efforts go. You develop fitness, coordination, and skillsets, in your arts practices.. no matter what art you choose. And being that all of these arts imply the same human form... most of them will translate perfectly fine, into other arts methods / attributes. Unless Humans develop a 3rd arm... or something like that... then everything that has been discovered and developed.. will remain effective, forever. All of this said, Ive met and sparred masterclass level fighters, in Chinese combat arts... and they can and do apply these amazing looking movements while Sparring in heavy contact sessions... just the same as they are learned, and applied in their actual forms and drills. So... much of what this dude is saying, is Bunk / Skewed.

@johndough8115

Жыл бұрын

@@onimekyo7633 The Ancient fighters of the past, used to spar each other, and against various different artists arts, on a regular basis. Also, they would train not only in school.. but also, out of school, on a daily basis. Training these things was a daily way of life.. and so, they reached a level of ability, and mastery, that many today, refuse to even attempt.. let alone, achieve. Even Yipman himself spoke about the importance of knowing the Opponents methods & Weaknesses.

I like that there’s a movement - at least online - where kung fu and karate practitioners are recognizing their styles are more wrestling than striking

@Lieutenant-Dan

Жыл бұрын

In order for a style to be "more wrestling than striking" they actually have to practice wrestling, not just find potential wrestling applications in their forms/kata. In general, kung fu and karate are primarily stand up striking arts.

@michaelterrell5061

Жыл бұрын

It’s an equal amount of both.

@Lieutenant-Dan

Жыл бұрын

@@michaelterrell5061 I'd have to disagree. In my experience with both karate and kung fu, there's very little grappling/wrestling practice. You learn the odd grab, break or trip but that's about it.

@combatsportsarchive7632

Жыл бұрын

@@Lieutenant-Dan According Patrick McCarthy, the Okinawans from the past had Tegumi to cross train to compliment their stand up skills in Chinese arts. It was a form of folkstyle wrestling for all ages in Okinawa. However, it was removed from Karate's training structure when the founder of modern traditional Karate Do decided to water down Karate into a form of recreational sport and physical education for Japanese schoolchildren since the beginning of 20th century. Source sites:

@AztecUnshaven

Жыл бұрын

@@Lieutenant-Dan Your experience is not representative of all Kungfu or Karate. Kungfu is extremely vast, and can vary dramatically depending on your instructor. If you train with someone like Tim Cartmell, you'll learn a LOT of takedowns and clinch throws from Internal Kungfu styles, if you learn from Wang ZhiPeng In Beijing, you'll learn Shuajiao throws and clinch work, plus a lot of Wing Chun blended in. If you study with Cung Le, you'll mostly learn the kickboxing side with some nasty powerful kicks and some fast throws. If you train with Don the Dragon Wilson, you'll learn mostly striking, and less emphasis on wrestling. Again, it depends GREATLY who you learn from.

WOW! Need more of this guy.

It’s cool to see this. I broke my wrist early on in my kungfu training. So I had to adapt and look deeper into what I was learning to figure out how to defend myself. It’s cool for me to see some other folks also getting to the real parts of kungfu. About the names of the moves I’d like to add what I’ve found. For example if I say single leg take down, then the move becomes limited to single leg take down. What people should do is call the technique whatever it is, and realize that the traditional name or poem of the principal maneuver can be like how the block becomes a throw like in the video. For example: Single leg take down comes from training on the dragon catches the pearl at the bottom of the sea. Btw real Sifu’s are naturally secretive about their trade secrets. I do teach all this stuff and because this stuff takes deep insightful hard work that is the same as giving a baby a loaded gun, I don’t just teach the deeper stuff to just anyone for any price. I don’t teach champions or heroes or legends, I make them. Keep up the great posts like this! Sincerely, Sifu Hero

THANK YOU !!! So many people still don't understand that... Even a lot of Kung Fu teachers.

Kinda makes sense, most martial arts in China were developed during the dynastic era. I have always believed that these styles are for building muscle memory for weapons rather than striking (punching steel armor does indeed hurt), but this has open a new perspective.

@ShadowParalyzer

Жыл бұрын

There are a number of records that shows that bare-handed martial arts were not super popular back then. One military general, Qi Jiguang (1528 - 1588), even wrote that he thought they were useless on the battlefield. The reason was because weapons existed. Back then, the Shaolin Monastery were not famous for bare-handed fighting; they were famous for their staff fighting. In Shaolin Staff Method (ca.1610), there was a Q&A section that asks why are monks suddenly practicing hand-to-hand combat? The answer stated that hand-to-hand combat is not widely practiced which is why they wanted to explore it - hoping that it could become just as good as their Staff Method. So yes, you're right about weapons being the origin.

Omg! This is so true! Most older martial arts have lots of grappling in them! You should check out animal styles like Tiger,Mantis and Eagle!

Wow, this is amazing I see it now, it makes so much sense as a wrestling art

Awesome vid🔥! Fighting is fighting, there's only one human body

@MartialArtsJourney

Жыл бұрын

👊

Great exposition of an idea that is so basic it has become practically invisible! Good work, fellas!

Glad to see a video like this. It can be maddening trying to explain to people that there is very little difference between something like mma and kung fu. Or that Taichi is more of a slow version of kung fu (internal), which is, as said, similar to mma.

100% true and the 10% that's not wrestling is mostly weapon-based movements lol. In southern Chinese martial arts I'd probably say there's a bit more of an emphasis on striking, and there are exceptions to this rule since kung fu is an umbrella term. Cheng Style bagua, as he is demonstrating here, is definitely extremely wrestling focused. Cheng Tinghua, the person for which the style was named, was a very skilled shuai jiao practitioner and involved with the Shan Pu Ying wrestling battalion. That anyone would know this and proceed to treat bagua like it's supposed to be kickboxing is beyond me. Yin Style Bagua has a lot more integrated striking due to the nature of its originator, but even then it was heavily based on Chinese and Mongolian wrestling (Yin Fu, its originator, was an instructor for the Shan Pu Ying as well supposedly), and what strikes do exist in Tai Chi, Bagua, etc, were integrated with the wrestling (AKA were mostly clinch fighting). So yes it's wrestling, but not wrestling as we think of it today and more like "dirty" wrestling with some integrated striking and weapons. Also 100% agree on where one can find the actual traditional martial arts, sounds a lot like how every martial artist I respect found their teacher. Fantastic video and thank you to Shifu Jacob!

@Martial Arts Journey I think forms should be constantly practiced with partners, just like dance. So even when you do a preset form of movement, you see a somewhat humanlike reaction to your movement.

I’m a Brown belt in Judo and love the idea of a challenge of skills. Good luck and can’t wait to see the video.

Been having a similar thought process in my baguazhang practice. Glad I'm on the right track.

I would love to see more video of Kung Fu in Wrestling.

Yeah. It’s called Chi Na. It is VERY prevalent in the Southern Styles of Kung fu, the rapping you see is very often used to transition into grappling. Northern styles are more about kicks and staying at a long distance than the southern styles which are more about punches and grappling, but even they have really effective takedowns, especially since most styles of Shuai Jiao come from Northern China. Chinese Martial arts are very complete arts are very complete systems and if you ever see them spar, you’ll notice a very large portion of it turning into grappling after the initial striking exchange.

@watamutha

Жыл бұрын

I wouldn't say complete, probably varied with a bunch of techniques spread out over a bunch of styles.

@genovasquez8361

Жыл бұрын

yes long fist and wushu

@markiec8914

Жыл бұрын

Actually it's most prevalent in all the Northern Chinese styles than in the Southern Chinese styles ( with notable exception for Choy Lee Fut, Pak hok, Hung Gar or Jow Ga KF).

Ramsey Dewey also had videos on this topic, and it's great. It honestly feels kinda like regaining or rediscovering lost ancient knowledge, and most importantly it looks like a small step towards actually making traditional martial arts combat effective again. You love to see it

Тренирам китайски бойни икуства от 30 години и ввунаги съм знаел че във формите има много граплинг, но това видео го показа по най-добрия начин. Когато ме обучаваха, моите учители в кунг фу/ушу ми казваха, че има три вида разбиране на формите тао лу. Първото разбиране е на външно повърхностно ниво, когато практикуващия вижда само удари и блокове, второто ниво на разбиране е скрито ниво когато практикуващия започне да вижда действия от граплинга и чин на. Третото ниво е вътрешното ниво, когато практикуваия започне на вижда (осъзнава) вътрешните промени. Дълги години си мислех, че това вътрешно ниво е свързано с движението на енергията Чи и разбирането за нея. Но когато започнах да тренирам BJJ осъзнах, че това вътрешно ниво не е пряко свързано с Чи това е разбиране, за онези финни движения и настройки, които биха подобрили изпълнението на техниката в боя. Жалко е че в наши дни много от това рабиране за кунг фу е изгубено. Много малко хора имат представа какво практикуват и много учители в кунг фу нямат реални умения за самозащита, а само зания за изпълнения на театралните форми. Ще се радвам ако в бъдеще все повече знаещи майстори споделят своите знания.

I disagree on the reason for the names. I think it's less related to hiding than to classical Chinese thought. Literacy in China was very low for a long while so when masters had to pass their art they used names that students could remember by associating with something else (it's mnemonics). Even when there was a written manual, they didn't have photos nor photocopies, so they had to use drawings and even then it's hard to show exactly what the application is or even the correct way to do the form. Again, mnemonics to the rescue. You name the techniques and the different postures in the form after something the student (or even whoever wrote the manual) can easily connect. This is also the reason some TCMAs have lyrics or poems to their forms. They were all methods to pass on knowledge within a certain cultural mindset. And yes this would help you hide. You could talk about the practice without giving away anything. Either because they were trade secrets, you were hiding from persecution (be it religious, political, etc) or any other reason. Great video!

this brings me a totally different perspective, would be fantastic to watch him to apply this in fight

the way he explained xing yi , baji quan , bagua zhang and taichi's wrestling mvts is impressive

Omfg this is what I've been saying!!!!! I tell other people in my mma class all the time. Gong fu and sanda was my original style

@dianarosewater5973

Жыл бұрын

Matter of fact if you look at the low stances you'd say that would never work, but then you watch shaui jiao and they hit those stances constantly in order to throw or avoid throws

I've been saying this for over a decade. I even had to explain this to a tai chi instructor.

@luongthanh105

Жыл бұрын

I practiced kungfu when I was a kid. The very first basic thing we learned are Qin na. Qin na is the fundamental of kung fu and it always be neglected.

I started bagua and shuaijiao to add things to my judo, its insane how much kung fu is grappling even beyond those two

Having learned some kungfu myself. Just the title itself totally hits the spot. If you see weird moves in kung fu forms they are probably related to wrestling.

Years to learn karate, if was just striking wouldn’t make sense so a lot of the kata must be locks grappling etc. karate from Okinawa, I guess it’s just jujutsu but in west some don’t know that it’s same as jujutsu

Excellent video, thank you. This teacher knows his stuff.

When I realized that Kung fu isn't all about strikes to the head and body it made a lot more sense! Great stuff!

I don't think you can say "Kung Fu is 90% wrestling" as a general statement. Most Kung Fu schools practice very little grappling. Just because you can find wrestling/grappling applications within Kung Fu forms, doesn't make it 90% wrestling. How can it be if you rarely actually practice those techniques against an opponent in a wrestling context? Kung Fu is most definitely a stand up striking art primarily. A more accurate statement would be "there are a lot of wrestling applications within Kung Fu forms." Good video though!

@nathanieltillman2355

Жыл бұрын

Facts

@rojcewiczj

Жыл бұрын

The point is that the movements you find in the form are for grappling/clinch range, not for reaching in with strikes. If you base your practice around reaching in with strikes then you're going to be kickboxing eventually.

@Lieutenant-Dan

Жыл бұрын

@@rojcewiczj which could also be applications for a parry followed by a strike, there's strikes for close range also. When you watch karate or kung fu practitioners sparring, it is basically kickboxing with maybe the odd trip or grab, they aren't wrestling each other. I still don't think you can say "Kung Fu is 90% wrestling"

@rojcewiczj

Жыл бұрын

@@Lieutenant-Dan I agree that kung fu people tend to approach sparring as kickboxing, but in my experience, that is because the modern way of understanding kung fu/karate. The missing link, is that kung fu doesn't use body pressure to control the opponent so the techniques have a suddenness which is more like striking than wrestling if you're thinking of two people pressing against each other and trying for grips, but the purpose of the techniques is control/effecting balance/breaking more than simply hitting someone. The trick is that you shouldn't use "pressure" in kung fu/karate, but you do want to control/break the balance of your opponent. What that means though is essentially the mystery or secret of kung fu.

This guy talks and walks like a scam artist. :P He's trying really hard to pretend traditional kung fu forms are somehow modern grappling techniques when they aren't. Can you use the muscle memory of kung-fu to transition into other disciplines, sure I guess, but you're going to have to re-learn and unlearn a whole bunch of bad habits, so why even bother learning Kung Fu in the first place. Just go take an MMA, Wrestling or BJJ class.

Great video. I practice Kung Fu that is very practical like this - I even recognize the metal dummy in the beginning of the video. 🙂 Good stuff!

This is what I'm looking for in martial arts training perfume don't mind me just keep doing what you're doing

I'm so happy with this video. I'm saying since 2015 that the problem is not that wushu doesn't work, it's just that gyms are not understand wushu. When you see the forms you can recognize a lot of the mechanics that are used in bjj, wrestling and other grappling arts. Most of why Kung Fu always lose in open competitions is just because the fighters are trying to reproduce strikers but they are kind of wrestlers. Thank you so much for this.

Very interesting. I never thought of kung fu the way it was explained in this video, but to be honest it kinda feels like a light bulb moment, where now that i heard it, it makes a lot of sense. Particularly the first movement, dragon something (lol), as it was being explained i was visualizing it and it seemed pretty legit! I am very happy to have found this channel. Your journey is amazing and inspiring and there is a wealth of information along with it.

Good confirmation! I used to train Shaolin. Since then, have trained at SBG. A few things helped me to better interpret my previous training. I realize we're leaving out a lot of the wrestling and how much it was built upon, in Shaolin. Thanks!

Very happy to see those Bagua Zhang moves on youtube!

Schuai Jiao has some BRUTAL throws . They make a point of slamming you straight down for maximum impact . So much so they have to practice on sand .

When I first started bjj I found my kung-fu background helped because I was used to actively relaxing which other beginners had never considered before

Great to see a proponent of internal martial arts. First form he demonstrated was from baguazhangs single palm change. The second form (which he refers to as dragon) is the dragon form from xingyiquan. The third form is from taijiquans brush knee. If your interested in the martial applications of traditional/internal kung fu I'd recommend looking up Paul Rogers, Alex Kozma, or Serge Augier (whose school I used to belong to)

This is fantastic. I realised while watching this that several moves in my traditional kung fu forms are actually throws.

THAT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE! I always thought that its exaggerated movements would just leave openings to get hit, but it didn't occur to me that it wasn't just for striking.

@boxingjacks

Жыл бұрын

the problem is that it should not need to "occur" to you. Your teacher did not teach you because they did not know.

Yes indeed. One movement, many applications. It's all about range. Just like weapons. The whole body becomes your weapon.

What i found extremely interesting is that most forms and stances that this guy used reminded me a lot of baijiquan especially the part where you get close to your opponent and then you use your body to move them. Hey rokas if you dont mind can you please check and make a video on baijiquan as well ? Its not perfect dont get me wrong but there are some applications that might be quite useful in combat.

Excellent video. It's coming full circle now

Haven’t watched the video yet but if it’s what I’m thinking it’s about. I’m glad some one is saying it. I’ve been really tripping out in how I’ve been seeing my Tong Long Kung Fu movements in wrestling. It’s like it got lost in translation and was misinterpreted as being a striking art…

Great video... we need more videos like this

This is awesome, the practical movement from tai chi.

Love the video, as my mind was blown a few years ago when I watched a video by NTUMA explaining that most Chinese martial arts are comprised mostly of grappling. I think calling it wrestling is still a bit of a misnomer as they almost never deal with grappling on the ground, and there are still a lot of strikes (just done after tangling up the opponent in the "standing grappling"). The biggest difference to me is that Chinese martial arts tend to engage with the opponent's guard hands (or legs) then strike, whereas something like boxing looks for an opening in the guard (control vs. speed and timing). Defense is also very different, as Chinese martial arts tend to rely on deflecting/parrying frames with an extended guard, whereas western martial arts seem to prefer head movement and covering.

The thing I especially love about Chinese methods of grappling are the various sweeping and tripping movements. I've trained in various martial arts, but I have a bad back (even though I'm 31) and as a result I've learned to use a lot of sweeping and tripping movements combined with joint locks, holds, chokes, some takedowns, and if absolutely necessary, limb breaking techniques. I also really like that Chinese grappling focuses on grappling from standing, which is also useful to me because I have a hard time fighting on the ground safely outside of moves designed to escape from the ground position.

There was another video translated from Chinese tiktok. I was watching that was demonstrating that a lot of kung fu moves are meant to be done with weapons so it’s like when they’re demonstrating the kata the movements may seem over exaggerated or even useless but when there’s a weapon involved in the kata it makes complete sense

For me: yes they are PRINCIPALLY grapling/trapping, but when you land it you do with a mixed energy, like a shot that grabs, or a grab that hits, in short, the two are not perfectly divided, even if there are attacks that are mainly striking and others mainly grappling

Soon as he did a bagua pose I was hooked. This guy is great!!!

This is great, thanks for the video.

While yes CMAS could be used in grappling context,their primary focus is on structural power and striking,for example,taiji(taichi), is a striking based martial art,not grappling based,and it's main focus is on developing structural power,the only martial arts based on wrestling is called shuai jiao I suggest checking out trieseence Martial arts Channel,it is by far the best one on authentic chinese martial arts.

wrestling and grappling....for me that revelation came studying hung gar since i was six. the grip strength training (tiger claw), bridge hands (for forearm strength), and stance training, which is essentially lower body stability training and core strength with bodyweight instead of weights. then i started learning hakka kung fu re: bak mei (CLC lineage). sure there's a few striking techniques there but everything is set up through grappling and joint locking. take it one step further with the grappling, and you basically get into wrestling territory. the setups for clinching, grappling, takedowns and all that is so evident... and it def helps cross training in muay thai/boxing as a kid, and recently started learning more ground game/jiujitsu from friends that train in that discipline.

Whenever Oliver gets to speak, the style and the wordcomposition so similar to Jesse :'D couldn't even deny being borthers. Also awsome video these facts blow my mind about kung fu and thai chi!

Oooo this is good...this guy like many of us out here are combining the knowledges so that means maybe even tai chi can merge into these wrestling aspects...all the martial arts are basically showing movements and their different applications...some people go with more than one style and those are the people who are stepping in the right direction...others confine themselves to a style...that's why best style is no style best style is your style and finding a mix that works for you.

My personal experiences with Yang Tai Chi : Where it worked : 1. In brawl - like situations. While slamdancing on beer - drenched grounds in Psychobilly and HC-Punk concerts I was always the last man standing.(before I trained that style it was quite the opposite) 2. When you have to MOVE slow acting, but unwilling people in a bar. 3.While I was working as a postman once, my 65 kg - Postoffice - bicycle slipped on one occasion on ice. After that I found myself STANDING on that ice instead of laying down with broken bones. Where it don`t worked: 1. Fights against a FAST approaching enemy with full intend who kicks and punches. Sorry for the bad grammar!

@Sixth-Venom

Жыл бұрын

The problem with a lot of tai chi practitioners is they dont practice interception. Once you have a firm grasp on on interceptions then you can wrestle. Yang by itself is not enough, not enough striking and interceptions.