quick note. The MIx vs MBT has a bit of bleed from the microphone. ( apparently it wasn't edited out but it should have been) The other examples are only from the daw. Sorry about that. :)

@risingphoenix1484

3 ай бұрын

No one is going to really hear any real difference on KZread once upload the video and the audio conversion happens that being said i heard differences on the low end, the high end, compression and the field separation and that is a little damning imo because that is what the RND BP does and its so hard typically to tell the difference on KZread, from my experience if there is a difference it usually is more pronounced in person……. The only way you are going to see what this plugin is really doing is two test, 1. Scientifically testing it with plugin doctor or equivalent software and seeing the curves when applying equivalent changes to both the plugin and hardware settings that will tell the truth how close emulation really is. 2. The ear test in a properly acoustically treated room with an appropriate monitoring system, a lot of time people think things sounds good enough or equivalent until you are in a real room with the hardware and plugin A/B testing it in person. I trust my ears especially after 30 years of doing this.

@user-bo8ex4ji7n

Ай бұрын

@@risingphoenix1484 "no one is going to hear any real difference on youtube".... "i heard differences on the low end, the high end, compression, and the field separation" (AKA everything)... 😛sorry I had to. Just a heads up that KZread apparently fixed a lot of their low audio quality issues that plagued it in prior days. The audio quality is definitely good enough to hear a difference, and I definitely agree with you that it will be more pronounced in person. WIth that said, Kiive has done an excellent job kicking off the modeling of a device this magical. I hope it evolves from here because I really don't want to drop the money on either an MBT or MBP. For now I will use Nfuse on channels/buses and Access Analog on my master!

Thanks For Doing This Test And Comparison, Its Really Does Sound Close

As a user if the mbt I have to say it's really close. So close it makes me want the hardware more to feel fancy. But its like 85 maybe 90 percent there. Very very good. And I love the ssl bus comp they modeled sounds so good

Hey, Matty. Good comparison. They did sound close as you said. Thanks, Man.

After watching your reviews for a long time now, it's time to say THANK YOU for your work. By far for me this is the best channel for mixing/mastering/plugin review. What I don't like on other channels is that they constantly talk in between while they are working on the plugin. Nobody has to tell me when they set the plugin to bypass or turn the controls. I can see that on the screen too. You are doing everything right!

@mixedbymatty

4 ай бұрын

Thanks so much!

@DaveChips

3 ай бұрын

Yup amazing demo! 😊👌 No BS, easily watchable and straight to the point 👍

I also did a comparison with the HW. I found it very close. The HW has more extended lows, and more "open" highs, but honestly other than that it was great. Great job on this video. I have found from years and years of doing shootouts that a BLIND test really is more revealing. People think they can hear a lot of differences more readily when they know the answer ahead of time. If you ever do one of these videos again and have the time (its easy nowadays) I would recommend a blind test with reveal at the end.

@mixedbymatty

4 ай бұрын

I agree 1000%. Gonna do that in future for sure. I feel like a lot of people are hearing things that aren’t there.

@RealHomeRecording

4 ай бұрын

"Good enough for rock and roll...especially through ear buds!"

@samsonteam

4 ай бұрын

Completely agree, some people are going to decide hardware before evening listening and justify it. We have come to a point where your arrangement is key, its not the tools anymore.

@levondarratt787

4 ай бұрын

doesnt have mor elow end - just that the controls dont quite react the same way. giotta dial a bit more on the plugin. I find it just as good. That being said, none of these 2 boxes are "mastering grade" - as a ME, I beg peopel to not slam these on their Mix Bus or turn them off when bouncing. Promitive width controls and compressors do more damage than good (hence - please put on instrument buss, but dont treat these as 2000 dollar miracle boxes. That is a fraction what the pro gera in Mastering woudl cost. We dont do all in one boxes either. ).

@Rhuggins

4 ай бұрын

@@levondarratt787 this is closer to a 4 grand unit. I find it great for mastering, but perhaps not the Compressor section. Obviously not as the only processor. I didnt say that it has “more” low, just that the lows are cleaner- it also seems to have the perception of having access to an additional octave that plugins in general dont have. As though the low end is cleaner and less crapped out

I bought it after 30 minutes into my demo. At 29 minutes I switched the oversampling from off to 16x and was even more impressed.

The hardware def had an openness that the Fuse did not. That being said, I bought it without demoing and never looked back, I use use it on nearly ever bus and its part of my mastering chain as well. Really love it. Great vid! Thanks for putting it together. Concise and to the point. Love it.

These sure look great, and ì love Kiive audio plugins they are really good

Great job man

Thenks! Very cooll !!

Thanks for the video

I personally own the Fusion, so i have to do a proper comparision with it. But after testing the plugin I fhink that it sounds fantastic, which i never really think of the HW Fusion. In the plugin i find both really fantastic sounding (the drives and the EQs). The neve silk of my 542 sounds indeed very close to that of the plugin - fantastic! since i never really liked their "distressor" emulation I think they really nailed that one! Thanks for the comparison, Matty!

hardware just has the magic

i tried it with my SSL Fusion hardware and the EQ Section is way different and the plugin distorts when i increase the input level , i only liked the MBT Emulation because its subtle and more musical than the fusion emulation .

thanks!

best plugin made for years

It doesn't matter how close this is to hardware. The nfuse sounds great on its own and sounds good on my mixbus.

@DMKahn

4 ай бұрын

But lots of people still want to know if it’s an emulation or if it’s snake oil with a GUI. This video proved they actually modelled the neve

🔥

Very interesting

Great video. Cool plugin. Like the MBT side. It’s always a disappointment though just to hear the smoothing and nice low mids in the real analog. Small but huge difference to me. But gonna demo this plugin. I probably don’t need it in the box with what I already have and use.

Good job on the video man. To me the hardware is less sharp and bright. It’s very close and worth the price of admission for the plug-in, considering the extreme difference in cost, recall ability, and duplication ability. Cheers

I knew i liked the Kiive MBT emulation when i demo'd it, but man i actually preferred it to the hardware on the drum example !

I decided to do the comparison myself...They're pretty different. The widening is especially noticeable, like instantly. Kiive is an obvious choice from a financial point of view, especially if one is out of your reach, and Access Analog, while amazing, is very restrictive and the lag is annoying, but again, an obvious choice financially. But for me, the real thing is...yea!

@dirtyharry1881

2 ай бұрын

I have a pretty good monitoring system and excellent conversion. Comparing the MBT with the plugin, the differences were really REALLY subtle in the whole mix. Yes, there's a better reverb tail and clarity on the snare and more clarity on the highs. But would I be able to tell if someone didn't tell me that sth changed? I don't know. To make things worse, will there ever be a difference in commercial sound systems? Or perhaps there is a problem with Access Analog? How can you justify the 4k for the hardware?

@adsertheblade

2 ай бұрын

@@dirtyharry1881 Well, I haven't. I really was close to getting it, but the silk on the software is so close, that the effort to find alternatives for the other bits is fine. The stereo widener is incredible in the hardware though, I'm not sure I have a plugin that sounds so good for that particular module. And let's not even start talking about how much easier it is to drop a plugin on instead of routing to the hardware.

@user-bo8ex4ji7n

Ай бұрын

@@adsertheblade agreed with you hear - the widener must be very difficult to model. Closest I have gotten is with something like DrMS. Interested in trying the Acustica widener though Spacecontrol - looks like you could maybe pull it off with that one.

Funny the Fusion and Neve MBT are completely different units. So it makes sense to put them on top of each other.

@user-bo8ex4ji7n

Ай бұрын

2 completely different units which do much of the SAME thing, just in different ways... strange comment like you didn't think your thought all the way through but decided to type it and send it anyway. By the way you can put them on top of each other with this plugin *drumroll* by stacking 2 instances...

I use the shadow hills master compressor and vertigo vsm4 saturator on my masterbuss, would this plugin be a worthy replacement for those?

I have to be honest, I couldn’t tell a difference. I did, however, test it against the SSL Fusion plugins, with the same settings. The Kiive had more weight (low-end).

Kiive is an awesome company, 2 people only manage to bring use such high quality plugins

Thank you for the video! Close but no cigar...Hardware simply sounds more 3D ish. Better mid range definition, more defined lows, silkier highs. At times it feels like the plug in lows and highs are hyped - boomy and piercing, where with analog things are much smoother and more "controlled"..

@triplebeam23

4 ай бұрын

I've never heard a plugin that sounds exactly like the hardware we need to just get that outta our minds that it's even a possibility in our lifetime and just enjoy things for what they are

@kalidesu

4 ай бұрын

3D lol, more hardware mystical fairydust.

@richiefamus8778

4 ай бұрын

If you don’t believe that consoles and HW provide a mix with more depth it simply means you haven’t used high quality analog gear. It’s no fairytale. Doesn’t mean that ITB doesn’t sound good. But you can always tell a difference when you A/B.

@akagerhard

4 ай бұрын

Actually, I didn't think they sounded close and it was most apparent in the drum examples. The hardware significantly darkened the sound and the attack-release behavior was different. Most of this is due to differences between the hardware unit that was modelled and the hardware unit available at access analog. I've heard enough plugin vs hardware comparisons to know 100% that hardware doesn't sound "more 3Dish". SOME hardware units sound "better" on SOME sources with SOME settings and SOME plugins sound "better" on SOME sources with SOME settings. There are differences, but not in quality and class, just in sound. And the differences are not due to one being "analog" or "digital". There are no magic fairies in hardware. Basically, it's mostly EQ, compression and harmonics. In the majority of cases, the more apparent differences in sound are due to "EQ" (yes, non-EQ units can impact the frequency response too). If you really think hardware impacts the sound in another non-measurable way, I recommend to test yourself and get rid of the illusion your mind is playing on you. There are blind tests available on KZread. Sometimes you'll find that the plugin sounds more "analog" to you. Because "analog sound" is a bogus term that is a relict of a time that is no longer up to date. The differences that once existed between analog and digital in terms of sound quality are long overcome in all decent plugins. The differences in characteristics can be modelled. So examples of old digital software impacting the sound QUALITY negatively are: aliasing and EQ cramping. An example of bad analog hardware impacting the sound QUALITY negatively is noise. The issues on the digital side are now fixed with code - for example oversampling. But none of these things are what people call "analog sound". So what IS "analog sound"? Let's demystify the term: Hardware usually does two things: 1. It has a high frequency roll-off which you can imitate with any EQ. Sometimes there also is a little bump in the lows and a cut in the mids (all unit dependent). 2. There will be differences and inconsistencies between the left and right or the "mid" and "side" channel. Differences between the left and right channel create perceived width and inconsistencies (as in fluctuations in the frequency response) create movement, width and "depth". All of this can be emulated in good plugins. And if it isn't (because the plugin developers didn't know how or were lazy), you can create that effect yourself pretty easily once you understand how that "sound" is created. So no, hardware doesn't sound more 3Dish. Software sounds just as 3Dish. And terms like "better mid range definition, more defined lows and silkier highs" are not professional. "Silkier highs" probably just means a little roll off in the highs and maybe a light cut between 4 and 6 kHz. "better mid range definition" makes no sense at all - the "definition" or "resolution" is just as high digitally - so if a song has too much information in the 2 kHz frequency cutting 2kHz a bit will sound more pleasing, but it won't be "better defined" it will just be "less midrange information". The same is true for lows, but in this case, when people talk about "definition" they usually mean the attack and release behavior of a compressor. So for instance a slower attack (more transient information) and a slower release (less "body" and thus less "crowding" of the frequency"). So please, use scientific terms. We're audio engineers, not mystics. And all engineers that understand their craft and know what they hear, can use the proper terms. The terms you used are the terms our clients use (or we use for our clients) so that communication works. But between collegues, we should keep it proper. PS: If there actually WAS a difference in QUALITY every bigger mixer would use hardware predominantly. But most people are in the box for mixing and mastering - for good reason! The upsides of analog are in recording (0 latency) and aesthetics (looks pretty and impressive). Yes, using two hands to turn a knob is great too, but you can use software controllers for that.

@akagerhard

4 ай бұрын

@@triplebeam23You will also never find one hardware unit that sounds exactly like another. That's because every unit is different and so was the one that was modelled in a plugin.

Hey Matty , lets go!!!! I bet if you make a video of how to have head full of hair like yours, you will have 10 million views, every video you got more hair!! ...and the Neve is the closest plugin I heard to the real thing....crazy!!... i do not like so much the compressor tho... the SSL sounds good but not as close as the Neve, sounds brighter

I have the fusion since a few years, and tried this plugin. vintage drive is very different on the Hardware specially density , the space knob is also way diiferent on HW, no transformer switch on the plugin, no stepped EQ and the HF comp is actually a nice option. I can't say about the MBT I don't have one. I think this plugin is cool but doesn't sound like the fusion at least for me. Doesn't mean it's bad ;)

@hinky7729

4 ай бұрын

I feel the same way. Bought all SSL Fusion plugins and just wasted money. The Fusion has a very good eq and hf comp - I dont think that the plugins can replicate that - specially when you push the eq in the hf comp

If the mix sounds great, whatever you add to the mixbus would sound great.

Why did you leave the Oversampling off? That could be a quite a difference maker for the plug-in

@georgezorbas9036

4 ай бұрын

he Is very good at comparing plugins. That maybe was a little mistake for being a flawless A/B

I have the hardware and plugin and tested it. On Neuman Headphones and my Kii Three with Trinnov it is like night and day. Plugin sounds dull, Hardware (MBT) sounds much deeper and has this extra high-end touch - especially if you drive it. The plugin is good, but sounds a bit flatter.

Close but Anolog takes the cake

Just asking, but is it possible that the sound examples are not just direct sound from your DAW. Sounds phasy like your monitors bleed into your mic. At least at my end it sounds like that. Maybe you forgot to mute it in your editing software ✌🏼

@mixedbymatty

4 ай бұрын

yah! The first example it was. Left a note pin on top. Not sure how it wasn't edited out but such is life! :)

something with your streaming software is putting a ton of phase on all processed examples so they all sound equally bad

@chicagoblow

4 ай бұрын

I've said this time and time again, his examples , are terrible.

@DVNT

4 ай бұрын

@@chicagoblow I mean I like his style but you need to make sure your OBS is working properly before making videos like this. I paid someone to help me get all that set up, it does amaze me how many audio youtubers have the shittiest sound. Or some play the worst produced tracks you've ever heard in your life (not saying that here, just there's something so obviously wrong with the sound, delete the video & reupload it when it's right)

@chicagoblow

4 ай бұрын

@@DVNT I know right.. he does this all the time.. he's funny bro. I just come for the laughs. His examples are terrible.

need to compare it to the analog device with plug in doctor.

@kalidesu

4 ай бұрын

Or null them to the hardware.

Maybe in parallel get a clearer sound on plug...

It's not a little bit of difference on the full mix. The drums is pretty close, but the whole mix is very evident.

I thought the HF compressor can be turned into full bandwidth

i have the hardware for both and the plug is close in the examples but if this guy was more used to using the MBT and could dial it in a bit more you'd see that no plugin can give you that sound. theres guys that can make those units sing

@mixedbymatty

4 ай бұрын

It's only been out for a few months and people already making it sing!! God dam! Where is the video? Gotta see it!

@akagerhard

4 ай бұрын

@@mixedbymattypretty sure the MBT will be topping the billboard charts any day now.

Great test. Yes, it's still a difference but it's definitely not a 3k to 4 k$ dollar difference anymore. I also felt that the MBT (hard and software) is way more subtle than the SSL. I'm on the fence on buying an analog unit just for the last 5% on the mixbus but it's not easy. My favs are the Hendyamps Rothko XL and the 2400$ cheaper SPL Vitalizer MK3. Or should I go 500 rack with some Elysia and a Singular Tubedrve. It seems that the difference between analog and digital is bigger when it comes to tube sound (saturation in general). If you have time, maybe do a Kiive SSL vs Acustica Audio Celestial. Would be interesting to hear how the aged AA version holds up.

@Sance21

4 ай бұрын

The Rothko I’ve got my eye on. I just got the SPL MK3, and honestly it reminds me of the Fusion hardware, but with a Bass comp that’s yins to the Fusions HF Comp Yang. The MK3 is sort of threatening the mix bus use case for my Silver Bullet MK1 hw, but my HG2 for tube sat will stay. With the SPL, you do get a bit of that Tube color, but with no options for Pentode and Triode.

@RealHomeRecording

4 ай бұрын

Ever looked into the Louder than Liftoff Silver Bullet?

@wyrlismike

4 ай бұрын

i guarantee you that if you spring for the MBT you will never be dissapointed, i have both the fusion and MBT. the fusion is good for retro stuff, modern polish the MBT is the most incredible analog box you can get, i like it better then my fairchild (clone that is)

@ronson795

4 ай бұрын

@@RealHomeRecording Yes, years ago but there is swinging some "trust issues" with it. Probably nonsense but it feels like it wants to be a pro unit but uses amateur components feel. Will look into it again. Thanks for the heads up.

@ronson795

4 ай бұрын

@@Sance21 That sounds like, despite the relative cheap price, the MK3 is capable of bringing a great analog flavor a plugin can't provide.

I honestly thought they’d be closer, but the hardware was significantly better. I’m not sure why they’re being described as close when they’re not. Some plugins are almost indistinguishable from the hardware, but not these.

Hardware has more depth and polish. The drum loop snare on hardware had more spank. The Plugin lacked control on the snare

@kalidesu

4 ай бұрын

I like the tonewood of a fiberglass guitar. 🤪

@skylerfelix7609

4 ай бұрын

That’s what I was hearing. Snare had more punch and transient through the analog. Plug-in sounds good, but it’s way better on it’s own than comparing it to the hardware. Cause it kinda doesn’t come close

0:06 I think you meant "digital representation" no?

great video but HW takes the biscuit - problem we have a lot of the time is youtubers have affiliate links with the plug in companies. its a common fact that no plug in ever will be able to come close to the tones of analogue cicuitry

Been using the NFuse for a few weeks now, also have the SSL plugins of the Fusion, and honestly I think the Kiive Audio plugin sounds the best, even when compared to the actual hardware...

@hinky7729

4 ай бұрын

The Fusion plugins are not very good. Bought all of them but I just dont like them. Heard the fusion a few times and the HW is way better. That was a waste of money in my opinion.

I compared it with my SSL Fussion HW. I guess the plugin is a joke. It sounds not near like the fusion HW and the HF Compressor is lost on it. Acustica audio modelt the fusion better I guess.

I could hear the biggest difference in the ssl's high end... There's a 3D thing lacking in the plugin. But still really really close tho

best plugin going - better than the new pulsar modular 450 - the neve is the best plugin for years

The analog can have that depth, let's be honest, the end user does not care and many times will not notice if it was passed through the 4000 bucks fusion sll.

they focused on the saturation and stereo imaging as far as i know, the eq and compressor are just basic. Celestial by Acustica still wins for the ssl emulation, but the neve is pretty good.

@jorykevinberger7047

2 ай бұрын

Celestial isn't an emulation. They didn't even have a Fusion on hand to compare to when they made Celestial. They took the premise and used their own algos to make Celestial. And to me, the saturation on a snare doesn't quite hit like the hardware does. On the Celestial gearspace page, Giancarlo from Acustica says in the intro, it's not an emulation, and pages in says it a few more times, what I've said above. People are just so used to Acustica emulating hardware, it didn't matter what Giancarlo said. lol. They want to believe it's an emulation. Cheers.

Both nice units but I wouldn’t buy either of them. For my mixbus I use two Neve542’s and the Wes Audio Rhea. Widening and Eq are still done in the box for now, but I hope to replace them with hardware later, each their own but for me personally hardware rules 😊

Am I the only one who notices a massive difference? Depth and stereo field are like the sun and the moon

@hinky7729

4 ай бұрын

Something is strange - the stereo field on the plugins is way more open - i‘m just listening on my phone but there is a big difference. Almost if the hardware is mono? I have a flue maybe it is just that one of my ears is totally closed :)

Hardware all day

@kalidesu

4 ай бұрын

The end product is all digital 010101's

@STMENTNETWORK

4 ай бұрын

@@kalidesu doesn’t have to be I had a hardware recorder

Saturation = oversampling

I’m on apple earphones and I didn’t hear ANY difference, for the plugin vs MBT 4:40 thank you for this video!

why would people pay 4500 euro for the device of neve omg,its minimal in sound difference :o

It's a shame you didn't over sample the plugin as I could hear aliasing on the highs, which sound close. But the MBT bass was much better than than the plugin, way deeper and more defined (The Neve sound). Drums has more punch on MBT, better transients. This is typical $80 plugin vs hardware, it's not gonna cut it. Thank God for Access Analog.

@mixedbymatty

4 ай бұрын

You sure it's not just the youtube algorithm through your phone 😂

@RJ1J

4 ай бұрын

@@mixedbymattyListening on Adam monitors. Have used Fusion for mastering and have all the Neve UAD plugs. But didn't you hear the aliasing on the highs? All Kiive EQ plugins do this. Hence x16 OS.

@thecliqueshallsetyoufree8745

4 ай бұрын

@@mixedbymatty Hey Matty, there is fair amount of smearing from the plugin, hardware more focus. Stick to your hardware.

So subtle, it's not even there.

I don`t get this constant fight between „camps“ . Why is it an issue to not hear a difference . Respect peoples opinions. And if someone wants to buy a 4k hardware device because they believe it sounds much better its their choice. Its not like its my problem and the other way around, if i don`t believe its worth it i don`t need to change another persons beliefs. I am happy that everyone can decide for themselves and that we have access to such almost unbelievable i dare to say, variety and quality of gear and software like we never had in history. . Its like sonic paradise nowadays. Yet everyone tries to „convince“ others they are right while the succesful engineers are more busy with making sweet music rather than arguing on youtube with me. Food for thought We truly are a remarkable species.

So the SSL fusion doesn't include a mix bus? Yeah that's just stupid.... It's not summing if you're just busing out two channels and putting them right back in. 22 channels through some capacitors transistors and a couple transformer.... There better be a couple good transformer in there for the money they're charging! Yeah that's just stupid.... There's no way I would buy that! Pointless without the mix bus compressor!

SSL on the track sounds brighter. Another nail in the coffin for analog. 😂

Acustica Audio Snow Better

Selling all my hardware... lol

@mixedbymatty

4 ай бұрын

hahahaha. You don't have hardware. Just tons of speakers lol

Not even close. This plugin is below the average to be honest.

imagine creating something new instead of emulating what already exists and producing something inferior. capitalism at its finest.

@mixedbymatty

3 ай бұрын

Well you could say this is new for the plugin world. No plugin of the Neve. I wouldn't say it's inferior. It's not the exact same. But still a tool that's very usable.

Great timing for those searching for this video exactly right now like me 🤣 Thanks for doing this!!

@mixedbymatty

4 ай бұрын

Perfect!

dang!