Pls repeat ist after Kia have repaired the HV Battery. It would be interesting, if they use a 30kwh Battery. 😁 Best regards from the Aviloo engineering team.

I like this kind of content Björn, please go ahead with battery degradation tests! I wonder if there are informations about how this car was usually charged? Or was it a pre-owned car somebody bought recently w/o any information about the charging history?

'Slapping down the certificate' is already worth it either when selling, buying or going for battery warranty. 👍

Great video! Thank you Björn! Long live your battery!

@bjornnyland

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you :)

I'd really like to see how a high mileage 'classic' Ioniq 28 is doing with this software!

@Kimbrough87

2 жыл бұрын

Mine is a 2017 still getting 124

@werafonas

2 жыл бұрын

Mine shows 100% SoH at 150 000km.

@FFVoyager

2 жыл бұрын

@@werafonas it would be good to see how accurate that is. Mine is 43,000 mi/70,000 km and still fine but I wonder what the BMS might be hiding?

@steverulz92

2 жыл бұрын

I managed to get 198 km out of my 2017 with 160k km on it last week under hilly conditions in western Norway and AC on.

@t0mmiiiii

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/iXhpz9SYhNjNYps.html in Dutch

...as mentioned elsewhere, some cells in the battery are probably defective. This affects the total capacity enormously.

@dojohansen123

2 жыл бұрын

Well, duh! That makes ZERO difference to the owner, given the non-existent repair options on offer.

My father has this car and it had lost about 50% of the batteries capacity after 5 years. But since Kia has the 7 year warranty, they changed the battery for free.

Hi Bjorn good to see the test at work and matching to your test. Great to have proof.and yes don't call Austrians, German. The actor Christopher Waltz gets very upset when being interviewed when they call him German 🤣🤣

First of all, thank you for the test, Bjorn. Yup, you are right if you have hard evidence, you can show it to the dealership, and it should be more trusted than if you test it by yourself.

ABC Always Bring Certificate

I´m not surprised the SOH reading at the dealer changed, as you did a BMS recalibration when you discharged it to so low SOC. The criteria is discharge to below 20% and then charge to over 90% when ambient temperature is above 10c. This almost screwed me, as I wasn't aware about the ambient temperature requirement. I spent a whole winter trying to get the SOH below 70% on my old Soul. Luckily the warranty didn't expire until early summer, so I was able to get a new battery before it expired.

"Remember that: ABC - always be skeptical!" That was such a great phrase!

Not really degrated battery, but faulty cells. 13:20 much too high voltage difference between cells. clearly faulty.

@Macmonkey1000

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, over 200mv. Tesla pack would have shut down at half that difference.

@EinzigfreierName

2 жыл бұрын

It would be nice at this point to see the voltages of all the cells.

@Kallenator1988

2 жыл бұрын

This matches what was said earlier that there might be some issues with certain cells of the battery aging much faster than the rest in this specific pack.

@savedfaves

2 жыл бұрын

It’d be awesome if you own this and then you get a free new battery. Sitting pretty with new cells.

@EinzigfreierName

2 жыл бұрын

@@savedfaves Warranty normally doesn't grant you a new battery. They can give you a recycled or used one that just meets the minimum requirements. Not sure how it is for KIA but I have seen this in warranty regulations of other manufacturers.

Kia MUST fix this and replace batteries of old Souls, it is such a nice car, and it is a shame that they f*ck*d this up so badly. An we can clearly see with older Ioniqs with > 250.000km and almost no noticeable battery degradation, despite similar small battery size, that Kia has definitely a problem here, a problem they must fix ASAP!!!

I have just gotten my battery replaced on my soul ev-15 with 120k on odometer. On warranty. Probably got around 30kwh useable now.

@matroosoft4589

2 жыл бұрын

12k or 120k on odo? 12k wb very low..

@MrBohnsack

2 жыл бұрын

@@matroosoft4589 120k

Looks big degradation! Hopefully he will get New battery!

Considering the cost of the rental / test and the amount of 'hard data' Aviloo must have , its a shame they don't include individual cell data in the certificate. I recall the original Soul had 192 individual Lipo 'pouch' cells split into two packs of 96.

@hemmper

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, they might just have to replace a few bad cells. Not the whole battery. One cell gone bad affects the whole battery more than it's percentage of the whole battery would imply. It's not linear.

@gabriel_8801

7 ай бұрын

I can’t agree more. I am in that situation about 40% of degradation and wondering whether to let a few modules being exchanged as new garages start to offer this kind of works. This report without information on a cell level is completely irrelevant.

Takk for gode videoer👍min Soul (EL49…) viser pr nå 58 km på 100%😭, noe som stemmer med hva jeg faktisk kan kjøre….vært en god bil uansett👍

The SOH from the BMS that is read out with Soul Spy or at the Kia dealer gets updated with a new full battery cycle. Thats done by driving down to something like below 5% and charge it up to 100% with AC charging. I dont know how DC charging would or would not fit in to get a recalculation of the SOH by the BMS.

Last time I had mine (a 2020 Soul EV) checked at the dealer in June, it showed a SOH of 99% -- but then I've jet to use a commercial charger in three years, having always charged at home, and I rarely charge over 80%. I suspect that has a lot to do with preserving battery life (along with active thermal management).

@altoclef6688

2 жыл бұрын

My dad spent a lifetime working with batteries (not Li-ion though) and he suspects low charging currents (e g if you use a 10A ordinary Schuko to charge your car with about 2 kW) and avoiding overcharging are key for long battery life. So you are probably correct.

How it got so low? Car was made in 2015 and drove 100 000 km and already that high degradation?

Amazing videos. Please test an ID.3 with big mileage.

Bjørn Nyland, I know you have a lot to do, but I wonder if you could test the degradation in a Kia Soul EV with the 30 kWh battery pack from 2018-2019? It seems to me, that those by far don't have the same amount of degradation as cars with 27 kWh.

@kimkristiansen1413

2 жыл бұрын

Im hoping for the same video. Mine 30KWh Soul has gone 70K KM and there are probably some other 30KWh souls that has gone further that could be checked.

@larsenpetter

2 жыл бұрын

@@kimkristiansen1413 , did your Kia Garage also tell you, that your car still has 100%? That is what they told me, when the car was in for service last (75000 km.then). And it actually seems to be accurate, but I know that it should not be possible. I had an 2015 Kia Soul EV before, and that had some degratation (SoH 88.5% at 107000 km.).

@kimkristiansen1413

2 жыл бұрын

@@larsenpetter Jepp! They told me 100% SoH at 60K service and I told them that's the most funniest thing I have heard since the first time I heard teslabjørn yell Nein Nein Nein! They then told me that the instrument they measure with only reads 20-40-60-80-100. So if SoH drops below 80% like 78% then it will read 80% SoH... Strange?

@larsenpetter

2 жыл бұрын

@@kimkristiansen1413 that cannot be true! My old Kia had read out like 91.3%, 88.5%, so that is BS

@kimkristiansen1413

2 жыл бұрын

@@larsenpetter Yeah! I smell BS as well, but did not presue it any further. The GoM however is estimating only 10-15KM less than it did at the most when I first got the car 5 years ago. So my best guess is that the SoH is only slightly reduced 👍

There may be another variable at play when measuring SoH (and range), which you could maybe test: Is the battery really fully charged when the car stops charging? I am no expert, but at least for the Stellantis cars, you tend to get a higher "true SoC" if you either charge really slowly, or if you unplug and plug in again once the car stops charging. Using the latter method, I was able to add almost 4 kWh to my Peugeot e-2008 (8-9 % of official net capacity). I suspect it has to do with top balancing of the cells, and the criteria the BMS uses to say that cell balancing has finished.

Small packs tend to have a harder life, spending much more time at either very low or very high state of charge. And above all, they go through far more cycles for a given driving distance. My first electric car was a Leaf. I got it used in the spring and charged to 80%. Six months or so later when autumn set in that started to become impractical. The car did not allow me to charge to 85 or 90 or 95 percent, my only options were 80 or 100. That winter I charged to 100 every day, sometime in spring I went back to 80 again, but it was noticeably tighter and I got low battery warnings much more often than the summer before. The second autumn I again started charging to 100, and after this it was no longer really an option for me to charge to 80 anymore. Now, the Leaf gave pretty inaccurate information about it's state of charge. Using Leaf SPY revealed that the first low battery warning came at 30% SoC. On average I was still using well under a full cycle per day, but more than half. That is almost cellphone usage, and we all know how most cell phones' battery life is after just two years - i.e. significantly reduced compared to when new. A pack rated for 80% remaining capacity after 500 cycles is kind of decent, but it's just not enough if you put 200 cycles a year on it. In my opinion a pack large enough to cover at least a few days of average use is a must. (You don't have to use it that way, if you charge to 60% and drive it down to 40% you'll preserve more capacity.) Even if you never go far. (A car with a small pack can still go far as long as there are enough chargers along the route, it just requires frequent stops and more time for the journey. The 27 kWh Ioniq, probably with the same pack as this Soul EV, is far from the slowest in the 1000 km challenge. But it took a lot of stops. For someone who seldom or never goes far, this is actually not the biggest problem with having a small battery pack, IMO.)

@bjornnyland

2 жыл бұрын

Just look at the other degradation tests I have done. VW e-Golf which has an even smaller battery pack has way less degradation.

I hope you can test a meb car with high mileage

my 2016 Soul with 85k km currently shows ~93% SoH (SoulSpy/Torque). When fully charged, GoM shows around 175 km. Assuming full capacity is 27kWh, 93% is 25kWh. Given that, the GoM seems to assume a consumption of ~140Wh/km (which is somewhat higher than what I normally consume in city traffic, around 110Wh/km w/o ac). Overall this looks decent to me, so I don't think there is a big systematic issue with that model/the battery.

@hanneslipp7861

2 жыл бұрын

But my 2016 Soul with 75k km currently shows ~71-73% SoH (SoulSpy). When fully charged, it shows a range of 92 km. (my avg. consumption is 16,5 kWh/100 km) I definitely have issues with 1st Cell but the dealer doesn't care. They plug in their test device and tell me "is within limits". So I am waiting for the remaining 1-3% to drop hopefully before end of warranty. I am really curious to test this Aviloo device - even knowing the result already. Not sure if it really could help claiming the warranty.

Hi Bjørn, I do the battery test differently without any device. If your battery is low 5% and you charge it take a look at the Kilowatt charged. If you have 50KW battery minus 5% (left KW) is 47,5 KW. Look how much KW you can charge till 100%. If it is for example 40KW, you lost 7,5KW (47,5 minis 40) of capacity is is a degradation of 15%.

@bjornnyland

3 ай бұрын

*kWh

Talking about a Kia, just saw the "P3 charging index" and seems they have found a clear winner... Yap, you guess it! EV6 is the new boss! 😁 Bjorn you know what you need to do asap, right? 😜

They say for a phone, to charge up to 80% to increase it's life little longer. If possible can you make that test, like ur new ev or friends new ev to be charged up to 80%/90% for next 3~5yrs and do an degradation test after 3~5yrs, i think nobody has done test like that even in mobile phones.

@dgurevich1

2 жыл бұрын

Samsung galaxy s21 has a feature that limits charge to 85% Since I discovered it on mine, I'm using it. My phone is less than a year old, yes but it will be interesting to see. My last phone was a LG g6 and after 2.5 years battery holds for less then 3/4 of a day.

@simoncanfer5030

2 жыл бұрын

Hard to directly compare, since an EV is set up to not charge cells to voltages as high as a mobile phone. This is to make sure they meet the guarantees. But yes, I have a 6 year old Moto phone with 99% capacity and a 6 year old EV with 94% so it works.

@dgurevich1

2 жыл бұрын

@@simoncanfer5030 How do you stay with the same phone for so long? My record is 3 years with an HTC one x.

NEW eSoul 64kwh from 2020: 2%!! Degradation with 150.000km 🎉😅 with 90% DC with Aveloo

BMS only calculates in certain conditions I believe. Very similar to your testing. I wish I could find the document from Kia again. I do seem to recall it must be above 15c

@deuteriumoxide1275

2 жыл бұрын

10c, and you must discharge it to below 20% and charge to over 90% if I remember correctly.

Notice that many of your tests take place on highways, it will probably have something to say on the range as you get further at lower speeds but it may not change on Soh?

For me this is still the single biggest worry with EV's. My last car was a Volvo V40 and when I traded it in, it was 20 years old with 240'000 miles (386'000Km) on the clock and still ran perfectly fine and gave good mpg. Even with the latest EV's, are they going to be as good at that age and mileage.?????

Curious about the 64kwh e-niro. Now 83k km, no noticable degradation (still 420km of actual driving range, and measured capacity of 63-64kwh net capacity, and obd-port SoH of 100% reported. Probably the botom and top buffer capacity have taken a bit of the degradation away.

@nakfan

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly my thought too.

Dealer can just update the bms to show higher % and then say to the customer it's not under 70%. When it's digital, it can show what ever number they want.

@AndersCMadsen

2 жыл бұрын

Wouldn't that be fraud? I mean, you can change the readout any way you want, but you can't change the physical reality, so if someone starts digging, you risk exposing yourself to legal issues. I don't see why a dealer would do that if the car is still under warranty, since it would be Kia footing the bill for the replacement battery, and the dealer would even make som money installing it.

@werafonas

2 жыл бұрын

Sounds like you are full of shit.

By US 2017 Soul is waiting on a battery right now. No idea when we will get it back. Only 20 mi range when I took it in

Nice car…but I am still waiting for the review of the new Megane Elettric

We need this tool in the US, would love to test my M3 after 60,000 miles.

@Roban554

2 жыл бұрын

You mean TM3?

@savedfaves

2 жыл бұрын

@@Roban554 yes

10:11 Just look at the voltage delta when the battery is empty. Clearly at least one cell is faulty. In the end it's Kia's responsibility

The gold standard lg just as dismal as a mk1 and mk1.5 leaf no matter what design comes out unless we address long term pack life for the second hand market we just won’t see wide spread on markets where petrol/diesel are king

@Maarten_vd

2 жыл бұрын

I think battery packs that are build without active liquid cooling wear out fast. Others are far better

@ram64man

2 жыл бұрын

@@Maarten_vd not all of them even the halo brand t has reported older models drop below 70% in some cases the sooner we develop true 1 million mile use packs with little to no degeneration is the only way hardliners will be convinced to swap they have cracked the recharge rate on level 3 hyper to something acceptable to a sub 30 minute recharge to get to there destination we have got used to models running forever if looked after right now mainstream ev models are more concerned about taking stuff away than just doing car truck models only now are we seeing genesis, Ford , riven offering what customers have been asking for

@Maarten_vd

2 жыл бұрын

@@ram64man for all we know Tesla's packs are already 1 million miles packs when used properly. Of cource in the real world only a very small percentage of ICE cars currently reach 1 million mile. But sure for EV's this has to be the standaard..... A battery pack from a car can work for years and years as a home use battery, give it a second life. And they can be recycled very good nowadays, making the new pack a lot cleaner as less raw material has to be mined. Please buddy, use some commas and points in your replies. It's now one sentence and thus difficult to read/understand. Cheers

I still drive the 2021 mg zs Now 35000km with no noticeable degradation. I'll plug a obd2 scanner on it at some point to see what the bms thinks. Since I moved houses, I use the granny charger on it, and I wonder if this is actually better or worse for the battery because I tend to charge it to full more often due to the long time it takes and living further away from work.

@bjorn5906

2 жыл бұрын

Have also the MG ZS 2021. I charge everytime to 100% and have now 20.000 km driven. When I switch off aircon/fan then I have still 263km displayed. It is a really good low budget car and I love it.

@dgurevich1

2 жыл бұрын

@@bjorn5906 Yeah, our star of the show had one he sold after 2 years with similar mileage. His test revealed no degradation either. kzread.info/dash/bejne/l2F-sMuwg5fJj5M.html

They need to fix that. If they don't the car is basically scrap at this point because the repair will be more than its worth. Thats a big waste since the rest of it looks like its in pretty good condition.

What is a "normal" degradation? ... And if this battery is gone, what happend? How?

I wonder how long it takes before Adidas wants their mirrored logo back?

Bjorn, do you have the SOH from Car Scanner? When a degradation test with LEAF 40?

@EV_OBD

2 жыл бұрын

(in Soul 27kWh) SOH = 110 - (Maximum deterioration %). You can only see Maximum deterioration in Car Scanner when connected to Soul 27 kWh.

TUV test seems complicated and 2 days doesn't seem practical for buyers, I guess it's meant more for sellers beforehand?

would this be the same pack as the original Ioniq?

@NicoSteinacker

2 жыл бұрын

No, definitely different pack.

This is a nice piece of soft- and hardware! But i wonder why the degradation is so high? Even our 10 year old zoe has 90% soh as of now. Did he something wrong with the car?

@Mobile_Dom

2 жыл бұрын

different battery pakcs with different chemistries, different BMSs with different charging behaviours. the Souls of this generation all have pretty rough degradation unless it was driven by a priest on Sunday and charged at 1kw its entire life

@larsenpetter

2 жыл бұрын

But the model with 30 kWh battery capacity doesn't seem to have the same problem.

@Mobile_Dom

2 жыл бұрын

@@larsenpetter exactly, different battery chemistry, actually a different battery OEM if I remember correctly, they all behave differently

While any random e-Niro with like 80k kms+ is still at 100%

przyjaciele, czy ktoś zna dobry serwis samochodów elektrycznych, w którym można wymienić baterie trakcyjne kia soul EV w polsce?

cceptic 😁

Tesla has best degradation what magic battery are they using?

@moestrei

2 жыл бұрын

It's not a magic battery but it is a very effective thermal management system as Tesla is using thousands of small cells in steel cylinders vs big fat bricks in plastic housings. As the vehicles are very efficient and the batteries relatively large you rarely touch the limits of the battery.

@hollymolly518

2 жыл бұрын

@@moestrei nah it's definitely magic

@moestrei

2 жыл бұрын

@@hollymolly518 I actually own a Tesla with 331000km and the 1st battery still going strong (12.6% degradation)...so yes a bit of magic is certainly involved here.

The fact that both results match seems highly coincidental to me and needs further investigation. Up until now Aviloo always calculates the SoH with the "factory default" value in the denominator, like the 27 kWh in this case or the 64 kWh for the Kona in your previous Video (they call it "Available in new condition"). You already mentioned it in the last Video that this value seems wrong to you, so the whole coincidence is based on two errors. One in the numerator (measured capacity) and another in the denominator. And by varying both it is highly unlikely that you hit exactly the same number as you did here with the 43%. I think you are aware of that Problem, it is more that I would wish a better estimation of "capacity when it was new" from Aviloo.

@UloPe

2 жыл бұрын

What exactly do you think is wrong here? If the manufacturer advertises a certain capacity that’s the number you should put in to the calculation. If that number isn’t reachable in a new car then the manufacturer is defrauding you.

@NameNaameNameeNaamee

2 жыл бұрын

So... maybe...if all tests come more or less to the same conclusion...that's just that factual situation you have to face...

@mfeld42

2 жыл бұрын

@@NameNaameNameeNaamee It seems like you couldn't really follow my comment. I was saying "Bjørn > Aviloo"

@mfeld42

2 жыл бұрын

@@UloPe I wouldnt say Aviloo does it wrong. I would say Bjørn does it better. So yes you're right when saying that you should get what is claimed by the manufacturer. Obviously this ist correct. For measuring the loss of capacity, you necessarily need to measure the initial capacity with the same method for a hettet comparability. Thats basically what I am saying. Based on lots of range Tests of Bjørn we already know that you can not always pull out the claimed capacity due to losses or whatever. Therefore you cannot take this value as correct.

Bjorn you should do radiation test of these electric vehicles!!! I, and a lot of people would love to see some radiation testing done. Would be interesting comparing makes and models. So many electrical components, big battery and tech.

@MrPaukann

2 жыл бұрын

Radiation of what?

@moestrei

2 жыл бұрын

You will find that EVs are way lower than ICE cars as all the relevant cables and components are properly shielded which is not the case in ice cars.

@moestrei

2 жыл бұрын

@@MrPaukann Electro-static and elecro-magnetic radiation.

@MrPaukann

2 жыл бұрын

@@moestrei, why would you measure it? Non ionizing radiation can only heat up humans (like microwave ovens heat up food). You would feel it. Electrostatic fields, as far as I understand, shouldn't be called "radiation", unless you classify gravity as radiation. And with them, you would have electrostatic charges built up on you at most, which most people experience a lot anyway and are fine.

@moestrei

2 жыл бұрын

@@MrPaukann Some people are very sensitive to EMI (electromagnetic interference) and some equipment like pacemakers too.

10:30 wow! Maximum voltage on the certificate 3.58 V from the factory 4.08 V. That's a pretty big drop. Now some cells are 4.15 V or even 4.2 V. Mobile phones go to 4.4V.

@UloPe

2 жыл бұрын

That’s not what it says. It’s 4.08 at the start of the trip (I.e. 100% SoC) (which seems quite conservative) and 3.58 at the end (i.e. 5% SoC)

Very bad result

Complete disaster. I'm not surprised then many people don't like EV's.

@Aphorism89

2 жыл бұрын

Based on what? so far EVs´are far, far more reliable than ICE cars.

@bjornnyland

2 жыл бұрын

Hold my beer... 11 % degradation after 8 year/350k km kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZpWIydWcntDSgps.html

Kia Soul-less. What an effing eyesore!