"Let me get this straight, you think that KH2FM has flaws?" "I do, and I'm tired of pretending it doesn't."

@TheSpecialPsycho

3 жыл бұрын

Joker was almost a masterpiece, but there's something missing from it

@brandonwilliams6119

3 жыл бұрын

I will never stop loving that meme Template!🤡 “Let me get this straight, you think Shadow the Hedgehog is a decent game?” “I do and I’m tired of pretending it’s not”

@REvoLverj98

3 жыл бұрын

Listen here, Goofay....

@LordMalice6d9

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheSpecialPsycho Joker is unoriginal, there is nothing new under the sun.

Your most favorite games are the ones you should criticize the most. Just because you say something has flaws it doesn't mean you don't love it. Things can be amazing, but not perfect.

@Synli

3 жыл бұрын

This is the internet, where showing any bit of criticism immediately means you absolutely hate whatever you're taking about. Even though it's usually the opposite.

@chrisberbano7207

3 жыл бұрын

I 100% agree with this statement. Your acknowledgement of a games flaws proves your appreciation and love for it. The things a game does wrong makes the things a game does right even stronger

@eduardosolistinoco9698

3 жыл бұрын

Completely agree, I remember a few months ago I saw a person comment in a video of "Battle for Bikini Bottom" talking about how the game was a "flawless gem" and complaining how "he never saw people point a flaw in the game that wasn't only a "nitpick". People proceeded to answer him with legitimate flaws of the game (some even a lot of big name fans of the game point out), and he still dismissed everything as "only nitpicks". In the end we love games (and every other form of entertainment) *in spite of* their flaws, not for their *lack* of them. And learning to distance ourselves from our own personal bias to look at things critically and fairly is what let us grow as people.

@MonsterDawg79

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly! It's always important to find and respect imperfections in even stuff you absolutely adore. Otherwise, self-entitlement can creep in.

@camharkness

3 жыл бұрын

Why should I criticize kh3 when everyone shits on it already? (This is a joke. I do criticize kh3 even if the things I fault the game for doesn't match up with everyone else's reasons)

One KH2 design choice I've always disagreed with was how the game would throw you into dozens of mandatory encounters against normal enemies but would set all drop rates to 0% for the duration of the fight. As if stopping me from getting a couple lucid shards or a potion fighting shadows in yen sid's tower would break my early game experience. It kind of falls into the same thing you said about drive form grinding and how if you want to get the form exp/synth materials, you have to stop progressing and go grind for that because playing through the game normally won't give you very much. There's also a complete lack of information in the game about where to find *any* synth materials, the only way to find out in game is to go kill everything until they drop SOMETHING

@Warcraft383

3 жыл бұрын

wait there are places where the game sets drop rates to 0? I never knew that

@FlameHidden

3 жыл бұрын

I never understood why more games don't do the Castlevania route and just TELL YOU what the enemy drops in a gallery. But it especially frustrates me because we HAVE the Journal

@BlacktheSnivy

3 жыл бұрын

Funny thing is that Days had this feature.

@Invenbel

3 жыл бұрын

@@Warcraft383 literally every mandatory fight, yes.

@Invenbel

3 жыл бұрын

@@FlameHidden I know, right? They just would've needed to add a little line/UI element saying what enemies drop in the bestiary

The only form that was actually easy to level up while progressing story without side tracking was valor form

@redpenguin111

3 жыл бұрын

Limit form can be leveled enough to be good on bosses if you spam it in mob fights. Optimal master form leveling is very fast as well, even pre-1k

@filippostsitsios3784

3 жыл бұрын

Wisdom

@Max-wp8mx

3 жыл бұрын

Meh, Master for me. In the original you can Max it out in 10 minutes with Aladdín's keyblade, and the same ability, in land of the dragons.

@filippostsitsios3784

3 жыл бұрын

I agree but they're talking about without stopping to grind

@wisemage0

3 жыл бұрын

By the end of my first playthrough I had high jump lvl. 1 and literally no other growth abilities.

Biggest Flaw: No wood sword weapon, literally unplayable 0/10

@Stachelbeeerchen

3 жыл бұрын

But we have foam bats! Struggle is cool guys trust me!

@MommyHappy25

3 жыл бұрын

IKR

@darkuscarlet

3 жыл бұрын

@@Stachelbeeerchen Hey kids, wanna fight tutorial-tier enemies ten times EACH for completion? That's exciting, right?!

@lowhp_comic

3 жыл бұрын

Destiny Island kids smacking eachother with sticks and wood are more metal than Twilight Town kids with foam bats

@Starkiller156

3 жыл бұрын

Facts or even the stick keyblade ventus uses smh

I always loved kh1's somewhat Metroid approach to some chests. Kh1 encouraged you to revisit old worlds with new abilities to find new swag. Good stuff

@TheSpecialPsycho

3 жыл бұрын

BbS kinda did that too. But BbS also lets you cheese certain moves being gained early. Sliding Dash gets Superglide for example

@aryaa9900

3 жыл бұрын

Kh3 brought this back. Also Although the platforming still wasn't amazing in it, it was still much better than KH2 imo

@mattsully2238

3 жыл бұрын

I will acknowledge that kh2fm reintroduced this with the puzzle pieces floating in hard to reach places

@MilesMods

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheSpecialPsycho BBS was a broke game.

@TheSpecialPsycho

3 жыл бұрын

@@MilesMods Not wrong

I don't think you even need a guage for the revenge value, an irritated voiceline or a specific tell BEFORE the revenge could also work, and be worked onto the style of the game itself

@alsaiduq4363

3 жыл бұрын

Some KH3 bosses , data org and yozora , all have come kind of voiceline right before using RV. "Try again" for riku, Xemnas tells you to fuck off and teleport away, Vanitas says Annoying, Yozora have multiples (Nice try, Nope, Try again) , etc. And most of them just teleport way or have clearly animations like Saix literaly stopping and using a slow attack or Terranort using his guardian.

@Aufrecht

3 жыл бұрын

The gauge could be hard to implement as well, could potentially clutter the screen or be a distraction in some form, but it's just shitty how it's still not explained even in KH3, at least they made an attempt to hint when it's coming.

@platinumconquest2365

3 жыл бұрын

I disagree. I'd still say having an "RV Guage" is something the series, and other action games, would really benefit from implementing. Letting the player know a retaliation is about to happen just beforehand using audio cues and animation tells is great, but also having a clear visual indicator of where the Revenge Value currently is at a glance would be really helpful. It wouldn't even be that hard to implement without cluttering the screen. Just make it a thin bar just above the health bar or something.

@lythowls6304

3 жыл бұрын

_(I'm working on something inspired by Kingdom Hearts, so I've long since thought about a possible solution. Other game mechanics in my project not discussed here might make this solution make more sense but:)_ Enemies' health is divided into health bars, especially bosses. These sections could naturally act as a visual indicator for revenge value. You can tie revenge activation to whenever a health bar section, or certain amount of hp bar sections, is depleted.

@platinumconquest2365

3 жыл бұрын

@@lythowls6304 Not a bad idea not at all.

Much like Drive Forms, Summons are not explained to you almost at all. A casual player would almost certainly ignore them 95% of the time in favor of Drives because their functions aren't elaborated upon and the benefits aren't immediately clear. Edit: Forgot to mention: Along with the puzzle based level design, KH1 had a lot of charm in it's platforming (despite the early installment jank). DDD and KH3 were steps in the right direction, but both feel like they missed the mark and didn't live up to their full potential.

@NeutralL12

3 жыл бұрын

thats what makes progressing through critical and after, crit lv 1 so fulfilling and fun, it forces you to learn the game inside and out and master all the options given to you to succeed

@jacksonwww5

3 жыл бұрын

The beginning of DDD and KH3 give a lot the idea that they really wanted to make a puzzle-based gameplay, but it seems that they gave up afterwards, but that already gives me hope that it will be completely added in future games.

@SonicMegaKing

3 жыл бұрын

"KH1 had a lot of charm in it's platforming" I will fight you in the streets over that, I hated it.

@aspreedacore

3 жыл бұрын

@@SonicMegaKing doing puzzles and navigating with *NO MAP* lol

@lowhp_comic

3 жыл бұрын

I also liked the little animations of Sora opening a door or climbing a ladder when moving to another section, not that black screen transition

It breaks my heard that KH1 had stuff like the postcards in TT or the whole of the Bizarre Room in WL just to have more stuff to do, but this just wasn't a priority in the rest of the series

Why are Tents in a game with infinite mp? Just cure and wait. Literally never used a single tent.

@Zayindjejfj

3 жыл бұрын

I also never liked how Cure would instantly solve the issue. I know most people prefer it as is now. But I liked when Cure didn't cost your whole bar and only restored a certain amount based on how strong it was. The utility of it feels like it only matters in Critical because you have little health to work with anyway.

@JohnWilliams-wl9px

3 жыл бұрын

Magic Warrior I prefer if it had variants, each cost different amount of health and the one that heals you the most is the one that heals all of your Heath

@kevinbell5674

3 жыл бұрын

To be fair, I never used a tent in any KH game.

Surprised Oogie boogie wasn't mentioned during the Bosses section... always hated that fight. Not a broken fight, just boring and very lackluster.

@Bl00dyBizkitz

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah idk why I left out Oogie, he definitely deserves to be on the list.

@inaccurateprophecy8971

3 жыл бұрын

THAT'S RIGHT! AWAY YOU GO!

@wisemage0

3 жыл бұрын

I actually liked that one. :(

@slightlyaltruistic9470

3 жыл бұрын

@@boyishdude1234 the problem is that it ultimately still plays like a bad minigame, rather than a boss fight

@jacksonwww5

3 жыл бұрын

As strange as it may be, Oogie's only boss fight as a minigame that is acceptable is that of Chain of Memories, that you can stop the minigames if you do the right things

Yeah I really wish they brought back restoring MP by hitting enemies with keyblade from KH1. Supports Mage style combat without ether spam or hit and run gameplay. Plus by design it could theoretically fix the problem of high damage spell as I feel like they only made spell damage so high for some spells because we can only use it so many times before having to wait 2-3 minutes for our MP to recharge.

@vadandrumist1670

3 жыл бұрын

Thought of that too, but ran into a problem. I also wanted to bring back the Drive bar for links and formchanges (and come up with a way to make the Za spells less random, and limit the Attraction Flow to boss specific reaction commands), but having both being increased the same way seems too redundant. My solution to this would be for essentially the MP-Recharge pro-code to always be in effect, the MP bar doesn't reload, and just ramp up the cost of spells (with the Cure series having the highest costs of all, and MP Safety just making sure you can't go under that value). You would be able to cast a bit at the beginning, but after that you'd be limited to only a couple spells every minute unless you use the lower tiers and/or load up on MP-Hastes.

Love that you mentioned people can be fans of kh3 even knowing it has flaws. I consider myself lucky enough to be in a position where 2fm and 3 (especially with Re:MIND) are both some of my absolute favorite games ever. I'm not ignorant to either of their flaws (looking at Skoll and zexion in particular) and there are definitely parts that annoy me in each, but my enjoyment outweighs it.

@ZZAFRETZZ

3 жыл бұрын

We need more people like you in the community

@vanarzyksianardeamnis3078

3 жыл бұрын

Same, I equally enjoyed a lot 2fm and 3remind for what they were even though they had some parts which outright annoyed me, but in the end each one of them fails and succeds differently on various gameplay aspects Let's hope the next kh games take the best of all previous titles and put everything into a more compact and overall even better and more enjoyable gameplay for every one of us : )

@aeroga2383

3 жыл бұрын

Skoll and Zexion's fights were awesome tho

@DADA-yt1pt

Жыл бұрын

I'm glad to be this exact person.

Holy shit, this is the first time I've seen anyone mention Roxas's Keyblade throwing attack. That one attack kept me from beating him on Lvl 1 for so long.

@lowhp_comic

3 жыл бұрын

It's the most infuriating attack, you can't react, it seemingly ignores your blocks and SC/OM doesn't mean anything as he hits you into a flinch rather than a launch

@kevinbell5674

3 жыл бұрын

You can kinda manipulate the AI into not using it as moves used depend how much health they have. For example, in my LV 1 run I figured I could hit Roxas with a 4 hit + 1 finisher combo twice without retaliation. Also, after my first 3 sets of combos he always went into his DM. However, if during the 3rd set I only did one combo than his health wouldn't be low enough to meet the DM threshold and the 4th set would put it beyond it, skipping the DM altogether.

@kurimiaisukurimu

3 жыл бұрын

@@kevinbell5674 Yeah, I basically just combo looped him for the whole fight without hitting his RV just to beat the fight without getting cheated by his retaliation attack

@kevinbell5674

3 жыл бұрын

@@kurimiaisukurimu That was it I HAD to do to beat him. My stats where too low to try anything risky. Fortunately Roxas is as simple as he is difficult, which is why he is so much fun.

Magnet and reflect are absolutely to powerful but thank god they aren’t balloon

@tabuukiller13

3 жыл бұрын

Also you forgot an RNG fight early on with random projectiles. Hades escape

@cryguy0000

3 жыл бұрын

What about Fire?

@tabuukiller13

3 жыл бұрын

Mimiko Ishikawa Fire still requires some modecrom of thought to use

@couchalmark675

3 жыл бұрын

I would argue that Magnet and Reflect are both way more powerful than any level of Balloon. It's just that in 3D the entire rest of the combat system is bad and Balloon is the only combat option that consistently works on just about anything challenging. If you had 2FM or KH3's combat system and then also Balloon, Balloon would still be a good spell, but it wouldn't dominate every other option.

@jacksonwww5

3 жыл бұрын

The problem is the deck command system, I think the only game where this system was "done right" was on ReCoded

for level desing , you can literally play the game like "oh cutscene is over, better i walk straight forward..." cause 90%of the time when the cutscenes are over, the next place you have to game is infront of you cause the cutscene lefts you in that direction... also what you are saying about mana bar is literally no mana haste but: kh1+kh2 mana bar

I think bosses glowing like having yellow aura around them signifying their gonna do a Revenge Value is also a good idea.

@lowhp_comic

3 жыл бұрын

Or give them a little animated tic before they do it, just not an instant "fuck off now" move haha

@okat32

Жыл бұрын

@@lowhp_comic MOVE ASIDE

The worst thing about 2fm in my opinion is that it fails to teach the player the most important combat mechanics: from leveling up forms to summons passive bonus, to how some limits have hidden properties. My first time through kh2 i didn't even know you could mix magic into physical combos until I saw someone else do it

@jeffboy4231

2 жыл бұрын

Hey a bit late lol. But just wanted to say that these things are imo more cooler and rewarding when found out yourself, you can get through the normal game fine without these things. So imo these being a bit more hidden makes them cooler

@harishramachandra1746

Жыл бұрын

@@jeffboy4231 they are not a bit more hidden, they are just hidden flat out

Best thumbnail format yet 👌 Please use this for future KH talks. Yeah agreed with pretty much everything. Zexion being the first AS fight put me off a lot due to how broken he is. And my first few times playing kh2 vanilla I had 0 clue you got growth abilities from leveling up drive forms. I didn't know glide or dash was a thing since with the game's design it's easy to get caught up and not level up forms before beating the game.

@syrelian

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I found out about Form EXP by accident(I was just looking at stat descriptions for fun, weird I know), I feel like there's one really simple solution to the guidance problem MORE TUTORIAL SLIDES, there's already a Tutorial Slide about Growth's, but its behind unlocking your first one, just add a tutorial slide when you get Valor about them growing as you do certain tasks, alongside presenting the Growth Ability one, and give another for each Drive as you unlock them, people can skip them yes, but you can still get the info more clearly out there, maybe also make Drive EXP be visibly tickered like Munny and Sora EXP, which would help players pick up they work organically as well

@tarotanaka4819

3 жыл бұрын

So glad I wasn't the only one. I only found out because of AMVs and was like... "Why can't I do cool shit like that? HE HAS DODGE ROLL!!!"

@joshstephens413

3 жыл бұрын

@@tarotanaka4819 Your fault for not looking at the menu. It isn't that hard.

One of my biggest gripes with 2FM is Anti-Form. I’m not sure who thought it would be a good idea to create a randomly-occurring Drive form designed to be objectively terrible in basically every conceivable way to punish players for using a game mechanic that’s... locked behind its own unique resource anyway? Say what you will about the semi-random nature of KH3 form changes, at least I can actively choose whether or not I enter Rage Form (not to mention the fact that I might actually have a reason to enter it)

@StardustWarrior16

3 жыл бұрын

It's especially baffling when you consider the growth abilities. Like, we're not supposed to use drives too much, but are supposed to use them enough to level them up?

@tigerfestivals5137

3 жыл бұрын

Yes this, idk why people justify it as "oh it's to stop you from spamming forms" when the drive gauge itself already does that.

@filiospi

3 жыл бұрын

@@tigerfestivals5137 its really easy to control anti form's trigger transformation, Bizkit047 has made a video about that you should watch it

@tezz2698

3 жыл бұрын

Especially when the strongest form can't get anti-form and lowers the chances of getting it in the future.

@aspreedacore

3 жыл бұрын

@@filiospi every game is easy once its datamined...

This video is beautiful. It encompasses almost every single issue I have. The only thing you left it is that the anti Sora mechanic and how it works is COMPLETELY hidden to the player, so, with no way to gain the knowledge besides Google, you're punished for seemingly no reason/randomly.

26:50 not just the lack of retry option but having to refight previous sections because there wasn't a rest point in between. IE refighting demex after losing in the final fantasy section.

@casualvanilla

3 жыл бұрын

Also having to re-equip stuff unless you go into a different room and back. This shouldn't have even been an issue because Chain of Memories in 2004 lacked this. If you died to Hades, your deck remained the same as when you went to fight him on that try. And it was implemented in Re:Chain of Memories on the PS2, so clearly Kingdom Hearts II could've had it.

@lpfan4491

2 жыл бұрын

@@casualvanilla Amazing how a GBA sidegame managed to be smarter about QoL than KH1 and KH2.(My favorite detail is how it introduced cutscene-skip to the series and unlike OG KH1FM, it actually works as expected.)

The glider part of the final boss is my least favorite part of the game, it’s so monotonous and honestly implementing any fight that is STUPID LONG and doesn’t let you heal should be a crime.

@vadandrumist1670

3 жыл бұрын

It's also pretty nonsensical too. What I think they should have done was (if they simply HAD to have this fight) have them use the Gummi Ship to take it down, not just some random glider.

@lowhp_comic

3 жыл бұрын

It should have been like the moving flying carpet levels in Agrabah but with an additional reaction command for Riku or something. Lets you heal, you already have the experience of this gameplay style from Agrabah and it doesn't force you to learn a random new gameplay style during one of the last bosses

@casualvanilla

3 жыл бұрын

The only saving grace is that you can kind of speed it up. You don't need to ultimate laser move to damage the dragon; Riku's projectiles can inflict a good amount of damage while you're charging the laser up.

Kh1 had the best mp system i think. It was the most transparent, each spell had either 1,2, or 3 mp cost and that was displayed clear as day to the player. And the melding of magic stat and total mp really streamlined character builds. And the best part was the yellow bar that filled after phisical hits. I loved that it encouraged aggressive playstyle. Especially with abillitys that allow counter attacks to fill it faster.

Remember when hitting enemies restored MP? KH1 remembers. Good gracious, what a simple, easy-to-read metric. Spells were one or two chunks, you get another chunk back when the orange line fills out, and hitting enemies fills the orange line out. What does "Firaga costs 55 MP" even mean to me in the heat of battle when I can't see any numerical values? For Forced Revenge, I could accept disruption without damage. Teleporting away is too simple, but hitting you for damage is too frustrating, especially since Forced Revenge comes out independently of the regular attack patterns. So instead of running or hitting, I'd prefer a push. Unless teleporting away fits the boss character's design (Xigbar, for instance), I'd prefer a boss keep pressure on and disrupt my actions directly, pushing me away from them, something I'd still need to recover from more than just "oh, I'm whiffing now". Give enough of an opening to recover, but also allows the boss to set up for an actual damaging rebuttal if I'm not paying attention during that recovery window.

@snekbitesboop9643

3 жыл бұрын

The way fighting games work, is that they have a burst attack that does no damage, but pushes you away, maybe something similar

@TimothyGod

5 ай бұрын

Uhhhh you know firaga takes mp, when you understand that your max is stagnant. If you have 100mp, firaga at 55mp, can be used twice. Math isn't hard...

I miss puzzles like in KH1 so, SO much

@wakewind4129

3 жыл бұрын

I don’t. Shit was lame af

@REvoLverj98

3 жыл бұрын

@@wakewind4129 agree, but everyone has their own cup of tea. This isn't Zelda where we need to find a diamond in the wall to wack just to proceed to the next room.

@Inplusity

3 жыл бұрын

I like puzzles in video games but i really dont like them in Kh1

@-Anonymous-.

3 жыл бұрын

You miss the “mysterious” aura/vibes KH1 had

3:50 Yeah, I think I recall that information not sticking when I found out about it when I first played KH2 Vanilla. Then again, I also blew off my stats in general as well. It was only until later on when 2FM came out that it stuck and when I saw the true potential of Chicken Little.

Thank you, there's way too many people ignoring KH2's flaws. Happens with lots of old games and movies now.

Yep. The thing is that a lot of us love it in SPITE of its flaws. Admitting they exist and that the game isn't perfect. Hard to believe for some people, I know, but one can love a game that isn't objectively the best out there.

The KH series's aversion to NPCs has always been one of its biggest flaws to me. Every other RPG will have NPCs you can interact with. KH1 had NPCs you could interact with in certain safe areas. But after KH2 I can't recall any NPCs that don't utterly vanish after a bit of story progression

@stampoulisrafail7836

3 жыл бұрын

KH3 kinda tried to make it better tho.

@lowhp_comic

3 жыл бұрын

Kingdom of Corona had a decent amount of NPCs but world's like Monsters Inc were absolutely disappointing with the lack of fun monster NPCs

@REvoLverj98

3 жыл бұрын

what is this, I am legend?

@Yurikon3

3 жыл бұрын

I think lack of NPCs was mostly due hardware restrictions. Still... at least in KH1 lack of NPCs was kinda justified and Dark Roads sneakily canonises it further.

@sethbuscus

Жыл бұрын

Timeless river has permenant Npc's, same with Twilight Town, Disney Castle, and Hollow Bastion. 358/2 days has a valid excuse for its lack of NPC's for obvious reasons, Birth by Sleep is embarrasing in that regard, and Dream Drop Distance also has basically none.

Having just played through some of Cavern of Remembrance in a randomizer, I'm really struck by how fun the level design feels but I'm also really at odds with some of the enemy design. It feels like they depended on reflect and magnet being as busted as they were for you to make it through, or understand how to stay invincible as often as possible. In particular, the book heartless and the ghost heartless are two I straight up can't seem to damage outside of reflect.

The funny thing about 2fms reflect is that I always found it balanced with lvl 1 in mind. While its a bit too strong on base crit, on lvl1 considering your margin of error is drasticly lowered spamming reflect in the middle of tough mobs and bosses is bassicly a death sentence since once you do the finishing reflect you are stuck in the animation for about 2.5 seconds and cant do anything so proper timing is much more crucial.

@nesoukkefka1741

3 жыл бұрын

Same with Limit Form, I'm actually suprise he didn't mention that but Limit Form on a regular playthrough is litterally broken, the fact that the Limits give you back HP on hit (even if you hit a boss while he is invincible), combine with Second Chance and Once More makes it quite spammable it's honnestly broken, and to emphasis how it is broken, there is a video made by a dude called Darkkefka where he cheese like 90% of the Data Org fight just by spamming Limit Form.

I am absolutely loving these KH talk videos. Perfect videos to listen to while I work in the background. I would love to see more vids/streams like these in the future

I love this franchise a lot, and even if the future KH games aren't on the same level as KH2FM in terms of depth or balance (I love KH3 Remind as its own game, but it does have lots of flaws), I've also been saying for years that despite that KH2FM is the best game in the series, it's not perfect and fanboys/elitists don't want to admit it, except to dedicated/die hard fans who actually use good arguments and criticism. I'm happy one of the big names in the KH community stepped up and showcased these flaws in depth.

@menacingjefferson8304

3 жыл бұрын

Can you tell me the flaws of Remind as they relate to depth and balance? I’m not trying to disagree with you, I’m just curious. If it’s flaws with story and stuff...yeah they’re definitely there ~_~

@RanserSSF4

3 жыл бұрын

@@menacingjefferson8304 well I guess most have more to do with the story, but gameplay and balance wise, it isn't well balanced for the main story playthrough, but for the dlc, it's really well balanced, has depth, different viable strategies, and has some of the best designed bosses in the series, despite not having as much depth as KH2FM

Great presentation. You forgot one huge negative about Kh2 FM that was also the issue with og KH2... THE Mini games. Not necessarily the quality but the quantity. 2fm has way to much side content via mini games. KH1 and KH3 have just about the right approach with how much extra stuff granted the process of getting the ultimate weapons sucked in 1 and 3 compared with 2. But 1 and 3 had not to much side content but not to little. KH2 takes it way to far and it makes 100%ing the game way too daunting a task. And BBS is even worse with its extra content with having to fill all three character journals.

@Watashi_inc

3 жыл бұрын

Zettas in my opinion 100% kh1 is harder only for the reason of treasure chests. None of the treasure chests you collect are recorded like in later games making it harder to keep track of each one and there are places that have puzzles that need solving and you would never realize it was a puzzle in the first place unless you saw a video or paid close attention not to mention getting the ultima weapon in kh1 and kh3 was harder. Kh1 was more time consuming and kh3s flan minigames were required although I do agree with bbs being the worst out of all of them because of the three characters needing the journal completed

@onimaxblade8988

3 жыл бұрын

I like that 2FM has these things. Just cause it's optional and all. Then to the other guy: I like that puzzles in one aren't always denoted as puzzles actually. I kinda love that kind of natural exploration and intuiting environmental details and abilities and stuff.

@stevenhiggins3055

3 жыл бұрын

I think the only things that made Ultima Weapon such a pain in KH3 was the Cherry Flan and the stupid postcard RNG. Most of the other Orichalcum+ were pretty easy. Thoguh I do wish they were used as upgrade materials for Ultima in NG+, just to give you a reason to play the mini games again.

As a kid I straight up didn't know that drive forms leveled at all (I was pretty oblivious). I probably leveled valor by accident but I never leveled up the other ones.

@aryaa9900

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly! I remember wondering why there were no abilities for glide or dodge roll at all. They really handled the growth abilites poorly

@casualvanilla

3 жыл бұрын

@@aryaa9900 To be fair, original KH2 has no Dodge Roll. It has Quick Run, which is faster and longer, but lacks invincibility frames. Dodge Roll was added for Final Mix. Still, I remember wondering why Sora could only glide and use Air Dodge in the penultimate battle with Xemnas and not the rest of the game. In KH1, when you fly to face Ansem, at least you had two (maybe three with Phantom) boss fights prior to that which allowed you to fly and know what to expect.

@TimothyGod

5 ай бұрын

​@@casualvanillait still has i frames

Despite its many flaws, I can never dismiss that it's my favorite KH game and one of my favorite games of all time. Best conclusion, music, gameplay, etc.

23:53 Funnily enough, in NEO TWEWY, the enemies in the game have forced retaliation if you try to get too combo heavy with them so they have the enemies flash yellow if you’re about to trigger their revenge value and then they flash red when they unleash said attack.

@superizillian957

7 ай бұрын

That damn bear

I agree that cheesing really is in every game, and that its not a problem. You can snipe enemies with arrows and poison in all Soulsgames, for bosses a tanky greatshield can give you inifinite stamina and blocking, DS2 has some BROKEN ass rapiers, attacking forever for the HIGHEST dps in the game with the smallest stamina consumption to boot WHILE hitting 30% bonus dmg for the counter hits. DS3 has the Sellsword Twinblade, enough said. SUMMONING is a thing! You ever just wanna let people play the game for you? Or maybe THREE PEOPLE even? Witcher 3 combat is already simplistic, but there are DOZENS of builds that make you immortal at the highest difficulty, and they are NOT hard to get to. Remember that weapon in FF12 that you can get 3 hours into this 100h+ game that just has 255 atk when everything else you have has 20 at most? And you just have to phase in and out of an area enough times? If you ever play a Danganronpa game and is having trouble with class trials, there are characters that the tutorial will tell you about which give you skills that also make you basically undefeateable in the debates

@nesoukkefka1741

3 жыл бұрын

To be honnest the FFXII's one is an exemple of bad cheese cause it actually break the entire game very early very similar to Balloon in DDD, and just Balloon it make the entire boring cause their is no point using anything else : -It's attack power is ridiculous even compare to other final weapons. -It's available WAY to early. -It shit on the entire game design by completly ignoring Jobs restriction, I mean it looks like a debug item that the devs forget to remove. That being said at least unlike Balloon unless you looked it on internet it's extremely unlikely you ever get, as for starters there's no way to tell where this thing is available, and without very precise RNG manipulation it is EXTREMELY hard to get with only 0.001% of getting it each time you enter the area.

Oh thank god I'm not the only one who hates Roxas's flying strike raid retaliation. I swear you can't dodge away from it after doing a combo finisher. Also screw Zexion and Data Vexen. Data Vexen is the only boss where I utilize speedrun strats just so I can be done with the boss as fast as possible.

I feel one issue with kh2 that wasn't touched on was the story progression. With kh1 and even kh3 the worlds felt connected by maleficent and the gang of evil disney villains in kh1 and the presence of an org member in every world trying to obtain their goal. Woth kh2 I dont feel this until the second visits. I mean sure Pete is there but it feels like hea there just to give a reason for heartless being there. LoD, pride rock, port royal, and agrabah all feel somewhat disconnected from the overall plot of the story other than Pete showing up In a couple cutscenes. We always show up to stop him from recruiting more people or if he does we defeat them immediately. It gets a bit better with second visits on some worlds having org members like port royal, and LoD but pride lands, olympus, halloween town, and agrabah are still disconnected from the overall story iirc. Imagine if maleficent was there with jafar when you confronted him, talking about his time in the lamp. Or if oogie left with maleficent to gain his strength and the world ended with the heartless that ate the kids (cant remember the name) and in the second visit was where we fought oogie. At the very least that would feel like maleficent is making progress which makes defeating him in the second visit that much more satisfying. I love kh2 but the story in that game, for the most part, feels disjointed and all over the place with its first visits with second visits having, again for the most part, poor bosses.

@thebigandlazyguy246

3 жыл бұрын

The worlds in kh3 are completely, absolutely useless man. For story purposes they may as well not be there. Only the keyblade graveyard has importance.

@poncho3326

3 жыл бұрын

Kh3's world are connected to the main story, but in a way that feels both forced and surface level, compared to KH 1. I don't think every world need to connect to the main story. It's always nice when they do, but having a few worlds here and there that serves as more of a breather isn't a bad idea. In any case, I very much prefer KH2 with it's mostly useless worlds than KH3 artificially making them important in increasingly obnoxious and stupid ways.

@rockorg100

3 жыл бұрын

@@poncho3326 i guess when they are spaced out properly it's nice but kh2 feels like you can finish hollow bastion 1 and then skip straight to twilight town and space paranoids in terms of the overall story. i do agree that kh3 was very forced and the lack of branch worlds (like pride lands where it's not even a requirement to finish) is bad and having the game start with the main plot basically revealed is just lazy. thinking back i remember maleficent being this constant threat in kh1 and in kh2 onward she seemed very lacking and i don't remember any clear specified reason as to why. i think the main problem kingdom hearts has with it's story is it's trying to juggle so many things all at once. you have the FF characters, unique characters, org 13, disney villains all at once it's no wonder FF had no presence in kh3 and i'm pretty sure i'm still missing some. in kh2 they wanted org 13 to take the spotlight but they also wanted maleficent to be present as well but it felt second handed. i guess thinking on it now the story isn't as bad pacing wise (agree with you on not every world/visit has to be part of the bigger picture) but isn't the best the series has to offer and definitely isn't as good as some kh2 purists i've run into say.

@poncho3326

3 жыл бұрын

@@rockorg100 Kh2 definitely has its problem story wise, but I think it works fine overall, and taken as a sequel to Kh1 I'd say it's probably the best kh game to date storywise (although a case could be made for Kh1 too. Kh1 is, I think, more robust and consistent in it's story. Kh2 has higher highs, like the Roxas storyline, but also lower lows). I agree with you regarding Maleficient and the fact that many worlds feels disconnected and unimportant, but plotwise the only game who managed to make the worlds themselves consistently important plotwise is kh1 (I don't count KH3, because the story and pacing is just...well...bad, and Chain of memories also have a story that progress regularly but it's not really connected to the worlds). Kh2's worlds do matter thematically though. There are a lot of elements in each worlds mini-story that connects with Sora's quest and the bigger story. Sometime it's the importance of being with your friends and loved one, which can either highlight the friendship between Sora, Donald and Goofy or its quest to find Kairi and Riku sometimes it's about the importance of the heart and the self, which makes us think about the Nobodies, Roxas and Org 13. Sometimes it's just about being a hero and looking at how much Sora has grown since the beginning of the first game. These little moments go a long way I think. Granted, they don't always work super well and sometimes a world only has them in either of its visit. But I think that here too, of all the kh games (because every kingdom hearts game do this thing to an extent) kh2 is probably the best in that department after kh1. For me, the story of Kingdom Hearts is impressively bad and riddled with a myriad of core problems, but I'd say the biggest ones are the hollow and inconsistent characters (which is coupled with the bad voiceacting), the lack of a good story structure, and the overuse of retcons, as well as the tendency to only explain concepts well after they have been introduced. Kh1 and Kh2 works because it follows more or less the structure of the monomyth, the archetypal adventure story. Ever since Kh2 each game has been increasingly bad in its pacing and structure. Emmotionnal high point happen but are too confusing and poorly explained to be satisfactory (KH3 and DDD), don't work because there has been no emmotionnal build up and real character moments in the game (BBS and KH3), or are the only thing the story has to offer, everything between being incredibly boring (Days). Most of these problems start to appear in KH2, but overall kh2 manages to work because it's still understandable and because it has two good emotionnal storyline, Roxas' story (which works because the tutorial for Kh2 does a great job at making Roxas matter for the player) and Sora's quest to find his friend (it work in Kh2, but because Kh1 did most of the work). These are the two things that makes Kh2 work in my opinion, it uses the solid and compeling story of the first game effectively and the opening of the game is truly captivating storywise. The later games feel like they want to replicate these good emmotionnal beats, but they don't do any of the work for it, while the overall plot keeps getting more complex while being less and less proprely explained.

@BobbyTheGamerOfJUSTICE

3 жыл бұрын

TheBigAndLazyGuy Uhh no. Every single world in KH3 added at least SOMETHING to the main plot. In KH2 however the vast majority were completely unrelated to the story to do with the nobodies and such.

I kinda don't mind KH2's level design. Yeah worlds are often linear and short, but at least they don't overstay their welcome for the most part.

@imcel8953

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly. Deep jungle and Atlantica made me realize how much I dislike the worlds in KH1.

@Karmalu

3 жыл бұрын

ImCel89 Oh god the backtracking in KH1 was terrible...

@Zayindjejfj

3 жыл бұрын

Deep jungle and Atlantica in KH1 was fucking hell as a little kid. My dad straight up printed out game guides just to get through those. Oddly enough Hollow Bastion was AMAZING and didn't feel as horrible for some odd reason.

@kubj31196

3 жыл бұрын

@@Zayindjejfj I think it's because Hollow Bastion was a classic castle design, which given all the rage of Castlevania, was more understandable for gamers. Also it was way more straight forward and had better instructions than Deep Jungle's "Backtrack to the treehouse THREE times for no reason"

@aeroga2383

3 жыл бұрын

I actually liked Atlantica quite a lot but that's probably cause I played on normal first so losing half of my abilities didn't bother me as much. Deep Jungle was just bad every way you look at it

I've been replaying 2FM over the past week, and my biggest problem is all the mini-games. The majority of them aren't fun at all and they just ruin the pacing of the game for me. I still think that 2FM has better combat and endgame than 3, but I think that overall I prefer playing through 3.

@joeysora

3 жыл бұрын

I think that is a relic of being a "kids game" because honestly as a little kid I had a lot of fun with them and I think that was the point

@Watashi_inc

3 жыл бұрын

Pbg?

@eternalpain7762

3 жыл бұрын

Dude, same. Just tonight I got to the Light Rider minigame on my critical run in KH2 and I actually wanna bash my head into the wall. Having done a ton of playthroughs of both games, I really appreciate that KH3 is a lot more straightforward in terms of gameplay. It makes replaying the game a lot less painful.

@CMRandall669

3 жыл бұрын

@@eternalpain7762 the frozen slider minigame in kh3 isn't a whole lot better. It's not worse than light rider by any means but it's still awful.

@robin9174

3 жыл бұрын

@@CMRandall669 The frozen slider minigame isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be and can be cleared pretty easily if you just know what you're doing and how to maneruver. The light rider on lvl 1 critical makes me wanna die

as someone who loves data roxas and will gladly fight him over and over for fun and to get better at the game, i have always 100% agreed that the spinning keyblade attack is absolutely horid. i personally think if that attack never existed at all, the fight would actually be pretty solid

@casualvanilla

3 жыл бұрын

It's the one attack from that fight that always catches me off guard, no matter how many times I've replayed it.

Enjoying this lecture series :D The slower MP bar charging for camping out sounds like what they did with the FF7R ATB gauge- it would charge faster when you're blocking or attacking. For form abilities, they could give the ability at lvl1 when you get the form (eg. high jump as soon as you get valor) and design the worlds so you actually have to use those abilities.

Really surprised that he didn't talk about the whole "not being able to finish off a boss unless you use a combo finisher/modifier or magic" gimmick the entire game forces on you. There should be no reason why I can't defeat a boss when their HP is at 1. Imagine not being able to finish off Gwyn or Ornstein and Smough unless you hit them with the third R1 of a combo. Small inconvenience, but it's really annoying after the first few times.

@soya_kitchens

3 жыл бұрын

I disagree. I don't think it would really feel "good" to just run up to the boss and just whack it with the first swing of the keyblade and defeat it right then. It removes all of the tension and the feeling that you're outsmarting/putting effort in defeating this boss, especially if you're doing the endgame bosses or data battles. Besides, if you're really in such desperation that you want the boss gone in the first strike, you're usually able to pull off the combo in time before they hit you (not counting the data battles), or you've already broken their guard to let you do a few combos on them, in which case you'll just defeat them. If you don't want to take that first risk, you can always just Guard or roll around for a few seconds and then finish them off, anyway.

@REvoLverj98

3 жыл бұрын

@@soya_kitchens who tf is defeating a boss in a single hit??? In what world is this defendable? Imagine if age couldn't kill a person just because they would have less than 1 second left. This is madness I say!

@sofaris576

3 жыл бұрын

Considering that combomodefiers that are activatet with the square button can kill a boss I dont see the issue. There will never be a moment where you can not beat a boss when his HP is at 1. Just press square in the middle of youre combo.

@neighandwhinnymchorse2100

3 жыл бұрын

What do you mean? Don't you *like* seeing the water dance 99 times?

@sofaris576

3 жыл бұрын

@@neighandwhinnymchorse2100 I think that is different. You can not kill Data Dymax until he used the 99 clones regadless what attack you use.

damn, this is a whole presentation😹 nah i’m just joking, this is a damn good video. keep it up

This was super dope to watch. Hope we get to see a KH1 episode soon!

Great vid, Really been enjoying the more content both youtube & twitch

You just helped me speed through KH1FM. Thanks man! Definitely subscribing!

You mentioned Firaga on KH3, I have recently beaten vanilla KH3 for the first time, I was playing on critical and the Xehanort Trio by the end was kicking my ass, but I am almost positive Watera (and so maybe water and waterga too) give you s as you cast them. I had damage syphon on and some two water boosters and I was just not getting hit when casting it while tearing some major chunks of health, since it tracked them even after teleporting away.

@tigerfestivals5137

3 жыл бұрын

The water spells do indeed give you some i frames

You can level up key blades up to 10 times in KH3. It’s a serious missed opportunity that they didn’t use that to improve the transformations, give you extra abilities, modify shotlocks, etc

@zerosolis6664

3 жыл бұрын

Well overall it does improve the damage of the transformations, since the Keyblade is stronger, and they all get extra abilities. Not for Sora, but for the Keyblade. But I think having like an upgraded Shotlock would've been cool. I honestly think tech limitations/time constraints/etc were probably at fault. I'm sure the next big KH title will bring even more innovation and changes to the transformation system. I honestly prefer them to Drives, even though I miss them. Light Form/Dark Form/Double Form are basically KH3's Drives imo. ofc along with Power/Speed/Guard/Magic (Valor/Master/Wisdom basically).

I didn't know you existed until right now, and honestly this is the most down to earth discussion of the flaws of any individual KH game I've seen.

Wait Bl00dybizkitz can criticize KH2? NAW this must be an alt universe. hahaha jk jk

Also, YES TO REFLECT. If i had pick one move in KH2FM that was this games version of KH3 Firaga (not on the same level, but similar case), it would be reflect. Even if it was tied to your combo limit and costed a decent amount of MP, it didn't matter when it offers low risk/high reward since it protect you from like 95% of moves in this game.

Please make more of these kinds of vids/streams. Theyre so good and i really liked the last two.

Start playing Kingdom Hearts last year, I really enjoyed exploring the game, the puzzles, there were times when you had to complete a puzzle to continue the game and I really enjoyed that idea, the worlds were alive and full of content for you to observe, but when I played KH2 I was very disappointed, the maps are very empty, there is no interaction with the scenery, the game is based on beating heartless and going from side to side, I know that a lot of people like the game, but he disappointed me, even though I had a very well thought out combat, I found it very boring to play, for me Kingdom Hearts should be a mixture of exploration and combat

@lambosnicko

3 жыл бұрын

Finished it last night and i felt bored most of the time which was a mix of stagnant worlds, boring repetitive mingames, and reused assets and music that they ruined compared to kh1 where i enjoyed everything... the music, the worlds, the battles, the story.

@casualvanilla

3 жыл бұрын

Unfortunately, KH2 changed the entire series forward. While BBS is more of a "turning point" in regards to story and tone, KH2 is what dictated that most of the series would have combat as the main focus with shallow mini-games and worlds being an afterthought. That's one thing I can't stand about KH2 as well. The gimmick fights. The fights where there's a time limit or you have to kill a certain amount of enemies, or where you have to make sure somebody else doesn't die (how can Jack even die in Port Royal when he's cursed). Those things suck big time.

@zerosolis6664

3 жыл бұрын

@@casualvanilla This is why I'm glad KH3 was sort of a return to that KH1 feel. And with the 1.09 update, even level 1 crit is a lot more fun as well. Sora actually feels snappier and faster than 2FM. I hope that going forward they keep that verticality and exploration of KH3 and give us some more puzzles/mini games that feel fun to play, and not required to do something like Ultima Weapon. Ultima Weapon is a Square game staple in the first place (started with FF of course) but I feel like minigames shouldn't be a requirement. They should be something you do to pass the time or something fun to do before you leave that world/come back to do it. I love the minigames in KH3 though. Frozen Slider is stupid fun, and I wish they didn't introduce it by the stupid fight with the dragons lmao

@TwilightFlower9

3 жыл бұрын

@@zerosolis6664 Seriously, I'm playing KH3 for the first time on crit and having a _great_ time with this game. The only parts I've disliked so far are the parts where it tries to be a game that isn't Kingdom Hearts (the sled with dragons, THE FUCKING BIRD IN PIRATES). Even the Grim Guardianess who I've heard so many terrible things about wasn't that bad (and I didn't even use Ralph cheese for it.) Main issues I have with KH3 so far is that some options (shotlocks, links) are FAR better than everything else available. Ever After's shotlock just yeets two and a half bars, Simba and Meowwow trivialize most mob fights, Ralph and Ariel destroy any boss with a large hitbox.

Dinner with the Boy: Homeschooling about interesting Kingdom Hearts topics since 2020

Really great video. I'm going to throw my main criticism that wasn't mentioned to Data Demyx. 99 ads in an abysmal amount of seconds isn't impossible, but I don't know of any other way to deal with it than Wisdom Firaga + LOTS of Ethers on both Sora and Goofy. It takes so much preparation and when I play through 2FM, I feel like it's a data fight I'm only going to do once because I never want to do it again. All the other data org fights are at least fun and replayable for me. It's a shame, because actually fighting Demyx without his gimmick is very fun.

Enjoyed the vid, glad you did point out the flaws with the previous video (even though you already did that replying to my comment last vid lmao). I may not see eye to eye with a lot of the opinions you have when it comes to this series (especially for 3, but I can't say I'm not biased), but the least I can do is respect your opinion and respect the content you make. Good vid

Really like these kind of videos! I agree with almost everything here.

All solid points, can’t really disagree. I would I like to see you do one of these on things KH3 does right.

This was a good video! It's nice to see some deeper critique's into KH2FM, 'cause yeah while I think it's great, I've definitely met some people who put it to this golden standard of all video games that nothing could ever hope to achieve (not you or others in the speedrunning community I've seen just to clarify, but I've been attacked by a few people on twitter for saying I like KH3 more than 2 as a whole package, even though I love KH2 a lot as well) I still think KH2's bosses as a whole are general not-so-great, what I do think is that KH2's combat has such versatility and way to *get around* that bad boss design is what makes it fun. Reflect and Magnet are two very powerful tools that most players use to get around the bad design of the enemies and the bosses, without those I think the bad enemy design would show itself a lot more seriously (doing some bosses without reflect is near impossible to not get hit by, I appreciate the fights where it's more focused on your dodging and guarding abilities more than just hitting reflect when they decide to spam attacks, while keeping reflect as an option instead of a requirement) My other main complaint is how, while the endgame combat of KH2FM is godly fun, it takes like half the game for the combat to open up enough to get that good, which is waaay too long for a game with so many fights. I've been appreciating the randomizer a lot more than the main game because you're much more likely to get some good combat or movement abilities early on, which makes it a ton more fun throughout the whole experience instead of around the mid-point. BUT YEAH great video thumbs up for you

@zerosolis6664

3 жыл бұрын

This is great to see, tbh. I feel this on a whole different level lmao. With KH3 having the glorious addition of NG+, keeping all your Keyblades (and, with 1.09 update) and ALL combo modifiers at the very start of the game, MAN does it make replaying the game so much more fun. I did level 1 Proud in KH3 before even Crit came out, and even with the barebones base Sora combos, it was still fun for me, especially because of bosses. But now level 1 critical and critical in general is so much better with the update. Basically KH3's final mix but in a patch and DLC xD. I know people preferred to have an Org fight or two somewhere in the story instead of just giant heartless bosses, but Lump of Horror for example is definitely one of my favorites. All in all I still like KH3 as well as a whole package more than 2FM. Doesn't help that KH3's data org and Yozora just completely overshadow 2FM for me lol. I kinda hope we are able to do KH3 randomizer someday!

wow this is so professional, i love it.

One of the biggest annoyances for me in this game is upper slash, my god the amount of times its got me killed, every time I'm doing a combo and see an attack coming I stop attacking and I swear the attack animation is completely done so I press square to guard and I end up doing upper slash and get absolutely slapped for it, one thing I'll always love Kingdom hearts 3 for is combo cancelling and rising spiral and ground breaker beaing on circle instead.

@TimothyGod

5 ай бұрын

Just unequip it then..... That's on you bro

Dispite the flaws the three numbered titles have i will always love them. I agree with almost everything.

replaying the game (well, 2.5 for the first time) has shown me one thing in particular I disliked. There are too many "whoa, Sora/Donald/Goofy have to beat this mob because story" bits, that kinda just kill the flow a bit. i remember some of them in KH1 but the time adds up when the three have to be loaded into the room, seeing the slow information bar, then the slow zoom out when the gang finishes the fight

@TimothyGod

5 ай бұрын

KH1 did it worse, you could get hit immediately after the fight starts. Yes the "here's the enemy are you ready?" Can be time consuming, but then you are ready to go into the fight. The biggest offender is Clayton. His first phase he can shoot you immediately, same with second phase before you realize you can move

For me Duck Flare was the Baloonra of 2fm . But I agree that in the case of Duck Flare or Stitch, a lot of people might not figure out how they’re an OP cheese. The game is still fun, even on a lvl 1 play-through

No midair Potion or block (making you rely on Reflega)... good thing KH3D and KH3 fixed that. Also the Retry option could've been a patch in the HD remasters.

Very very good video, agreed with pretty much everything. One thing though: Can you make your slides a bit darker because it's very hard to read chat while a slide is on screen. Thx :)

Finally SOMEONE talked about growth abilities! I literally finsihed the game without being able to properly dodge.

@rouge-ish324

3 жыл бұрын

Ikr? Same here

As someone who adores 2 (but still prefers 3), I gotta say. You really nailed everything on the head with this one.

I like how your like a complete badass in this game and you can really see how it is by bringing the flaws to the light.

I appreciate you making this video. One of my goals as a future game dev is to eventually make a Kingdom Hearts inspired game, and while it's good to know what the game does right, it's also helpful to know what it does wrong from the perspective of someone much more intimately familiar with the title than myself. It gives me the opportunity to think about how I could do it better, or if it's even worth doing at all, like the growth abilities, for example. I personally don't mind them being locked behind forms, as that encourages their use, but the fact that the forms require specific actions to level them rather than passively leveling while in use is part of what makes the grind so forced and awkward. It's one thing to level grind general enemies, but form grinding's specificity is what makes the break in the gameplay loop so distinct.

@meathir4921

3 жыл бұрын

It’s kind of problematic when they’re your main defensive options and you can’t use them most of the time.

@klickklack_pron9504

3 жыл бұрын

Wow, looks like I had same type of idea! Look like you have engaged in friendly competition lol

This was a cool video to watch. New video idea: positive things from kh3

Something that always disappointed me was how Final Form made Valor, Wisdom, and Master obsolete. I will disagree on one thing though, Roxas having a garbage move doesn't make the whole fight bad.

@Bl00dyBizkitz

3 жыл бұрын

The one move is unreactable and 1-shots. You have to either get really lucky or loop him in some way. It changes the entire way you approach him.

@onimaxblade8988

3 жыл бұрын

@@Bl00dyBizkitz Tbh I've never even trigger the move, so... For that reason, I suppose I don't mind one boss having one mechanic like that. I havent watched the vid yet, but I find Xemnas KH 1, and Terra's bow in KH 2 to be MUCH more offensive. I HATE that command menu mechanic.

@onimaxblade8988

3 жыл бұрын

At least the way they do it. It's actually fine with, say, Luxord. Minus the DM in Data obv.

@TimothyGod

5 ай бұрын

​@@onimaxblade8988even having 1 unreactable move is a bit ridiculous, especially if you use a finisher and get stuck in an animation

On having a graphic for revenge value, tales of hearts R has something like this and it's pretty fun. After getting hit long enough bosses glow red and you get a sound cue for their counter attack, and if you time a perfect guard you can counter back and continue your combo

I don't remember how base kh3 bosses went, but the data fights really got revenge right. They either just teleported away, or gained super armor and used a slow enough attack for you to react to it.

I actually really love these videos

Solution to revenge value: A gauge would be too obvious and too much stuff in screen for casual players (I think). I think a (red or violet) glow around them that gets brighter the closer you are to the revenge value would be more intuitive.

A note about MCP and Sarc idk if this changed in later version but in 2 english you could enter the fight without tron even though you literally cant win the fight without him. I remember having to die and putting him in the party though idk if i could swapped him mid fight.

@redpenguin111

3 жыл бұрын

You can swap party members during fights in Kh2 pretty easily. I don't blame you much for missing it as it's in the secondary command menu with summons and limits.

@TimothyGod

5 ай бұрын

They flgoce you a tutorial that explains swapping members tho 😂​@@redpenguin111

Funnily enough I looked up the drive form menu as soon as you unlocked Valor form. So I knew how it leveled from the beginning and when getting one of the other forms I also directly looked in their menus. Maybe that's just what they expected the player to do.

As a casual player, there were two things for me that bugged me. Like you said, movement being hidden behind drive form levels. I literally never leveled them the first time through as a kid so I never accessed any of the abilities. And then revenge values being hidden. Even if there was a visual indicator like a different stagger or a particle effect that would let me instinctively learn them rather than a bar would have been nice. As it is, I literally have to count hits and do math to understand that different attacks cause different values and that's too much for me as someone who plays once every few days.

First playthrough of kh2, I never leveled up my forms (or even that it was possible) and didn’t know final form existed. Once I did though, there were times when I preferred playing as base sora rather than a form just because of all the movement options.

By the way, I’m kind of surprised you brought up the Revenge Values. I had always thought you were a fan of the way KH2 did it. But I’m pleasantly surprised of course!

@sebastianlucas704

3 жыл бұрын

He is still fan of kh2.

The magnet Critique was nice to hear as well. I know most ppl complain aout it in BBS but i also felt like late game kh2 mobs would devolve to magnet thunder spam as well. I dont hate magnet as an idea but it may have been a tad too good in kh2(and way too good in bbs).

I actually have a few issues with the Roxas fight as well, unfortunately. I can still have fun with it, but it does bring down the fight a lot for me. One of which overlaps with yours. 1. When trying to use Counterguard on his Whirlwind Swing, he can just choose to ignore the Counterguard sometimes and slide around you for another attack. It can really mess you up if you're not expecting it, and it's made worse by the fact that he can do this multiple times in succession if he wants. 2. The lunge part of Continuous Swing being able to clip you if you're guarding at a distance it doesn't like is weird and frustrating. 3. Keyblade Throw being pretty much unreactable is terrible, as you mentioned. 4. In general, I'd say his openings are slightly too strict. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for bosses having tight openings but Roxas's feels like his is a bit too tight. It feels as though if your reaction time isn't instant, or if you wiff with even a fast attack you're getting instantly comboed. This is also an issue with his RC too. 5. I would also maybe change the lasers on his second phase onward Whirlwind Swing to not come out instantly when he goes into the attack. Still have them spawn in fast while giving the player just enough time to react and get out of the way if he dashes right on top of you. If they sorted those issues it'd probably be in my top three fights of all time. Completely agree on Revenge Value needing to be represented by a gauge BTW. Should be a standard in all action games. Letting the player know a retaliation is about to happen just beforehand using audio cues and animation tells is great, and also having a clear visual indicator of where the Revenge Value currently is at a glance would be really helpful. It wouldn't even be that hard to implement without cluttering the screen. Just make it a thin bar just above the health bar or something.

I felt the whole growth abilities section. On my first playthrough of 2fm in 2015 with the remix the only thing I had was high jump level 1 and dodge roll level 1. I used valor since it was the first drive and kinda stopped once I got high jump. I used limit form a lot because I loved Ars Arcanum and it got me dodge roll. I didn't even know how to level either of those forms up I just assume it was a timer on how long I was in the form for. I didn't even know about the other 3 until I saw a video of someone doing data roxas where they used glide in the DM

I think the only enemy who isn’t affected by magnet is those plant guys who I remember spawning in the forest in Halloween Town. And they’re barely even “not affected” by magnet because instead of getting sucked in they just get stunned where they are and spit out a ton of HP orbs. (Which is a kind of cool secret, since they’re plants with their roots in the ground)

@MisterPersonSiR_

3 жыл бұрын

After uprooting them they actually are affected normally by magnet, you just need to cast a new one It is an interesting interaction

My additional flaws: - 1. Guard having startup instead of being a perfect guard. - 2. Garding during your combo is a Limit Form only ability. And you can't do it with Dodge Roll at all. That would actually fix the punishing revenge value complaint. - 3. Party members are kinda useless late game. They do too little damage to be helpful for damage so they're only there for limits and drives at that point. Even then, I think they shouldn't take so much damage on Crit. If you need them to use Drives, it's pretty annoying when Donald instantly dies. They also have no i-frames when revived, so basically you can revive Donald to go into Final Form, only for him to die again instantly before you can menu it. - 4. If Donald or Goofy are down when you use Trinity, it should just use solo Trinity instead of being grayed out. - 5. Stitch is overloaded. Can give you mp, can stun enemies to give you hp orbs, can parry attacks, cannot be damaged. - 6. Shan Yu's bird ruins his fight. It can hit you from above which can whiff your guard (your only defense that early other than Limit i-frames). Plus it revives after like 10 seconds so killing it is pointless. - 7. Some bosses spam their DMs in their last phase which makes it pretty boring to deal with if you know how to dodge the DM already. Either make it so they can be damaged during their DMs or make them use it only once or twice. (I'm looking at you Marluxia and Lingering Will) - 8. Final Form can't guard or dodge. THE SQUARE BUTTON IS LITERALLY USED FOR NOTHING ON THE GROUND. - 9. Atlantica. At least don't make the games so brainless. I've literally never even come close to failing them, even as a kid. Maybe make them harder on Crit or something. - 10. Parrying in the air has no i-frames. - 11. Aerial Magic is floaty outside of Drive Forms. I'm sure it's intentional to make Drive Form magic feel even cooler. No, I still don't like it. Final Form aerial magic feels just like KH1 aerial magic; you fall while casting. THAT'S HOW IT SHOULD BE NORMALLY! - 12. Mickey's and Riku's ridiculously floaty controls make me wonder if Sora's tight and responsive controls were accidental. - 13. Data Battles have RV's that are way too low. You can't even use Limit Forms's limits on them without activating Forced Revenge. It's weird cause their normal fights all have higher RV and so does Lingering Will. So I don't understand the reason for this. - 14. Donald's limits last too long for just being normal Sora with extra damage and i-frames. Kinda brainless. - 15. Does anyone actually like Xemnas's dragon minigame phase? - 16. The FF bosses in the Underdome would've been fun to integrate into the story where you're not overpowered. They definitely feel like they were designed around early to mid game Sora. - 17. Cannot skip credits even in the re-releases. I think that's it. Edit - These are all gameplay related flaws because if I were to talk about how KH2 dropped the ball on the Disney Worlds, this list would be a lot longer.

@Aufrecht

3 жыл бұрын

1. Not a flaw, guard should require good timing. On a side note, Another flaw BB missed at least in my opinion, is how free Reflect is for i-frames. Needs to cost more MP for sure. 2. Wouldn't fix RV since triggering most revenge values are guard breakers. 3. True, except Donald and magic users in general in the KH series. They've been decent. 4. Agree 5. Agree. 6. Never had a problem with this but noted.. 7. Agree. 8. Final Form has TONS of parry frames, as well as Reflect, WITH mobile magic. So not a flaw, pick your forms wisely according to each situation or adapt. Edit: The 'Revert' button is also there, ofc you always wanna get the most out of your Drive but this is still an option. 9. Agree. Harder on crit would be at least interesting. 10. Agreed so much, this is one thing KH1 got down over KH2. Parrying seems to almost always screw you over in KH2 just because enemies or bosses can recover and attack back much quicker than you, which wasn't a problem in KH1 due to s. 11. Eh, I feel it has its uses. 12. They were side characters, focusing on Mickey he's well...a mouse. He's like 3 feet tall, way more nimble than Sora as well. Riku wasn't really floaty to me, but the only thing you need to do was spam Dark Firaga to get to Sora anyways. Not accidental or a flaw. 13. This only applies to like, Ragnarok if you mean just the limit with no extra combo iirc. Not a flaw imo. 14. Agree. 15. NO. 16. Agreed so much. They're not even a challenge by the time you get around to them. 17. lol yes

@ZiexCee

3 жыл бұрын

1. I can understand how you think it's not a flaw. I used to think it wasn't a flaw and it was just a "learn to time your guard" thing. But then I played DMC3, where you only take no damage with a perfect guard. Otherwise, normally guarding just reduces the damage you take. I also played Furi which ONLY has a perfect guard, so you have to guard as an attack hits you or else you take the full damage. What I realized with these two games was that I found it more enjoyable having to time guards for attacks right as they hit you rather than before they hit you. Also KH3's guard took from this philosophy and let's you perfect guard and rewards you with extra damage on your counter. As I said, personally enjoy that more, but I'm willing to say it's not a flaw. 2. If you could Dodge Roll out of combos, you could avoid guard breaking RVs with the i-frames. And guarding during combos would definitely help with guardable RVs because I do it all the time with Limit Form (especially Roxas) and I always wonder why I can't just do it normally. 3. Yeah, for heals I guess. I'd rather it be like KH1 where they still do a lot of damage late game. At max Lvl, they can take out waves of enemies and even bosses on their own with me just standing still in KH1. In KH2, I have Donald's magic stat at 100 from farming magic boosts on Data Roxas. I was gonna farm more magic boosts and eventually strength boosts for Goofy but I wanted to see what kind of damage boost Donald got with all that farming. It was...disappointing. He only does decent damage to basic heartless but still does barely any damage to bigger heartless like Morning Stars or Large Bodies. And forget Nobodies or bosses. They might as well not be attacking at all. Kinda lame. 6. Honestly, I never had a problem with it either because whenever I got hit by the bird casually, I assumed it was my fault. Then I tried to No Damage the fight and I saw the problem. 8. That's fair. I just find it strange that when you hold square mid-air, he guards. They could've just had him do the same thing on the ground, but they just...didn't for some reason. The square button is just sitting there all lonely and useless. I feel bad for it. 12. I disagree that it's not a flaw, but it doesn't really matter considering you're never forced to play as either of them. 13. Ragnarok is actually the only safe one cause it continues to stagger them after it's over. You 100% cannot use the full Sonic Blade, Strike Raid or Ars Arcanum on most Data fights without hitting RV even though you can in the normal fights cause they have higher RV. Try it yourself on Data Roxas.

@NeutralL12

3 жыл бұрын

I dont think stitch and duck flare being good are a bad thing, id rather have good options than no options, it helps make sora feel powerful and the different utilities are great to mix and match by circumstance, duck flare has a timer and takes all mp, stitch takes drive, its still a cost and cool down you gotta be aware of when using

@Aufrecht

3 жыл бұрын

Ziex Cee Ziex Cee Ziex Cee 1. Personally I haven't played either of those games (not playing DMC3, sad, I know), but based off what you described it seems as if the mechanic is much more skill based. This may be a weird take but I personally feel like KH games (ESPECIALLY with the release of KH3) were meant to cater to more casual audiences, having this sort of mechanic where I'd only not take damage unless I go perfect guard would've pissed me off as a kid. (Correct me if I took your argument in a weird way) 2. Being able to dodge roll out of combos would be a great option for KH2, (ex. KH3) but for me I never messed with mid-combo guarding in Limit Form because I found most forced revenge just punishes you regardless. It's a weird thing to me in 2FM where if most forced revenge by the time you get Limit Form is unguardable, they're already sort of setting a precedent that you shouldn't try that sort of thing. I'm totally open to this still since there's already practically useless abilities in the game as is. 3. Yeah KH1 was hands down when they were at their best and after that they just fell off..even in KH3 (despite knowing how much stronger they are) I still limit Donald's offensive magic out of habit. 6. Ah. 8. Yeah. Of course Final isn't always optimal but I'm a firm believer of Limit being the best form in general just because of how balanced it is defensively and offensively so I never had a problem with that when I used it. 12. Fair enough. One could also say they wanted to make them play distinctively from Sora as to create a feeling that you're truly playing a different character than Sora, but take that as you will. 13. Are we talking about the Limits stand alone, or a normal combo with a Limit thrown in? I always thought Strike Raid was just too slow to use on bosses that they'd just move away. Sonic Blade might actually have this issue but I don't believe Ars has this, but I could just be totally wrong. I always use combos+limits anyways and know it triggers RV anyways.

@Aufrecht

3 жыл бұрын

NeutralL12 The problem is that they're TOO good. All other summons in the game have a mechanic where if the physical summon gets hit by an attack, the summon gauge drops. Stitch lacks this mechanic, and his utility is by far the best out of all. Duck Flare (and Fantasia) also don't force Sora into a forced command menu. He can still utilize items mid-limit which almost makes the restriction irrelevant, and it just uses the rest of your MP, doesn't require max. Solo Trinity has the same thing but it's no where NEAR as powerful.

I guess you could call me a KH2FM stan, here's my 2 cents: -100% agree on the level design, they're just corridors aside from CoR -mostly agree on growth abilities, if you got lv1 together with the form it'd probably be much better and allow for better level design -Magnet and Reflect are super strong, yeah, but I personally don't have an issue with that. I guess that's just a matter of opinion though -I agree on some of the bosses you brought up being kind of bad, but not all of them (I actually like Groundshaker for one lol). Although let me just say that I feel like most of the problems you listed are exclusive to lv1 runs or Critical runs at most, and even then if you're doing such a challenge run I can accept some "less fair" things (for example, Jafar's a non-issue on Proud or lower imho). Sure, that's where the game is at its best, but it feels a little unfair to only judge it at those difficulties. Not everything is acceptable obviously (like I'm fine with Data Vexen but Data Roxas' keyblade throw is just bullshit) -I guess my position on forced revenge is kind of the same as above, some are fine and some aren't. I'm against the idea of downright having a bar that shows you how far into it you are, but making it easier to react to it with like a certain line or some other tell would probably be better I think I'm pretty reasonable with my position lol

On the keyblade upgrades note: I wish they got the treatment that KHUx gave where as you get towards the mid level and highest level upgrades, the keyblades get visually upgraded as well, I was kinda let down when I realized they didnt carry that over

Mcp and sark is actually one of my favourite fights. Idk why but it gets me hyped. I love the reaction command team up with tron. The whole fight feels very thematically appropriate for the setting and characters.

I actually think AS Zexion is kinda fun. He’s my favorite one, really. Data Zexion is a cursed being and his laughs assault my dreams.

@deadaccounts912

3 жыл бұрын

lol

@totalradlad

3 жыл бұрын

Every time I listen to The 13th Reflection I can hear Zexion in my head.

Good video, listing down some avenues that could be improved from KH2FM. Hopefully, you will attempt to make a full in-depth analysis of KH3's combat design as well, listing down its merits and flaws. Even though I ultimately agree with the thought that KH3 focus on scale and musou-like enemy encounter design affects many combat design decisions which leads to a polarizing experience, I'm not a fan of how many of its detractors reduce many of its combat options as just being "AOE damage" and nothing else. I wouldn't say KH3 is lacking in combat depth on a macro level, just that bad balance, overbearing encounter design and lack of clarity to players (e.g. How Situation Commands work, the inane way team attacks are built by being close to party members, never mentioning that parries or status effects exist etc.) means any semblance of nuance in KH3's combat gets swept away in favour of button mashing when the game is too easy or relying on braindead strategies focused purely on low-risk, high-reward DPS should players get overwhelmed. I think KH3's combat deserves more nuanced critique and it's sad discussion never goes far enough to point out if Osaka Team has more room for improvement in future KH titles by building on KH3's gameplay ideas.

@Yroxcruk666

3 жыл бұрын

Tbf, all of those things you mentioned that kh3 doesnt explain, it actually does (except for the whole party members team attacks, i agree there), if you look at the tutorials (which most of them literally stop your game to show it to you) and description of abilities, its literally right there

@rayfengchoo1063

3 жыл бұрын

@@Yroxcruk666 I mean how some of Sora's attacks have weird subtle properties, like Water having I-frames, some attacks (Speed Slash & Triple Rush finishers for example) will inflict Tekken-style wallsplats on enemies if they are blown back into a wall, many shotlocks can launch enemies and using magic as a finisher at the end of a combo chain will launch enemies as well (If the magic finisher is Thunder, it can also spike airborne enemies to the ground(!?!?)). Though yeah, perhaps I was too harsh on KH3 explanation of abilities. Even if the game does not shove information down my throat, I should have paid more attention to how each of Sora's abilities affects an enemy's state. I think the real main issue is how KH3 systems are.....weirdly put together. Like, on a functional level Sora can do a lot of wacky stuff to enemies. A prevalent complaint of KH3 combat is that all abilities just do "AOE Damage" and have no synergy with each other, but like...that's not true? If there is absolutely no utility or cohesion between any of KH3 options, a KH3 combo video like this: kzread.info/dash/bejne/Y42amMmQfpvgctI.html would be impossible. Sora can knockdown, launch, spike, freeze, and suspend enemies in the air; I'm seeing way more utility than just "inflicting damage", contrary to other people's claims. Blizzard in KH3 straight-up has its property of freezing regular enemies taken from how Blizzard affect KH2's Caribbean world's pirates: kzread.info/dash/bejne/Y22p0pqaqNCdptY.html. Despite this, KH3's Blizzard is still labeled as just being another projectile >_

An interesting note on growth abilities as they relate to level design. KH1 very rarely required movement abilities from you to complete the story. Mermaid Kick is needed to finish Atlantica, and High Jump is needed to complete Monstro. That's it. Both worlds give you the movement ability they need. Obviously High Jump and Glide are needed for for a lot of secrets, but the point is that not being sure what movement abilities you have isn't a deal breaker on level design.

@casualvanilla

3 жыл бұрын

I just wonder how that would be implemented with KH2's Drive Forms, since they flat-out require grinding and can't just give the player a move. I guess they could've done it like they handle Atlantica, by saying, "You can't do X until you reach Level 3 of X Form." It'd be annoying, but at least it'd give the abilities more purpose and the worlds could be designed around them. Plus, there's no reason that some secret areas couldn't have been designed with the forms in mind. In Halloween Town for KH1, there are chests at the tops of some buildings that you can't reach until you get either Glide or Superglide. Stuff like that could've been used for entire secret sections that challenge the player's movement.

Don't know if anyone already mentioned it, but that revamped MP Charge mechanic sounds 1:1 with ATB bar in FF7R, in terms of standing still making it slowly rise and attacking making it rise extremely faster 👀. I'd be down

@Powerman293

3 жыл бұрын

I love FF7R but one of the problems with the game us that some enemies it's way too dangerous to head directly in so you just gotta wait for their attack to be over before you can get a hit in. And the ATB Guage charges way too slow considering how often enemies do that.

There's a video I watched that pointed out how the way RV works in this game forces you to just arbitrarily stop your combo if you don't want to get hit (or most of the time in Crit, straight up die), which makes the fights feel like you're holding back out of fear of a system that isn't explained or shown to you. I really like how KH3 handles RV, like you said, where bosses will instead teleport away from you. This kinda touches on something I feel you bring up every now and then, where we want future KH games to BUILD UPON the previous games. KH2 introduced RV, it had a lot of room for improvement, and seeing a new KH game tweak the system (rather than just abandon it), even if it's a minor change, is really nice.

@Bl00dyBizkitz

3 жыл бұрын

The retaliations usually aren't too punishing, but when it does happen its pretty ridiculous. KH3 did a pretty decent job with it.

If KH2FM had the same aerial options (guard in air and air slide) like KH3 then forced revenge wouldn’t be nearly as bad with several boss fights, I believe

@zerosolis6664

3 жыл бұрын

This. Its so ridiculously archaic-feeling to even play KH2FM after KH3/KH3RM

@Powerman293

3 жыл бұрын

Lingering Will would have been way easier if you had KH3's aerial defensive options.

So many good ideas here