Interesting concept "consensual violence" Pat McCarthy talks about it a lot in his Bubishi book - really worth reading. Iain's explanation really puts into context why the old masters would spend years on just one kata, because they were thinking about all sorts of ways to use the techniques according to all of the potential non consensual violence situations you could end up in. Great video.

That avoidance of injury point sounds a lot like the old school Gracie methodology for jiu jitsu. They always talked about that and how their focus was self defense. In fact, one of the first American black belts, Chris Hauter, has a saying “think street, train sport”.

as a black belt who's trained diligently since teenage years and now i am 35 i had a wake up call when i was 33 - i was overwhelmed by a slightly older but significantly stronger aggressive male. he was pushing me and swearing at me loudly, i knew i could do stuff, i had several openings when this guy uncoordinately flapped about, including when he jumped the fence to rush me and fell over, but the whole time i knew doing anything would escalate the situation with him and his pit bull dog to a really bad level where there would be blood (the dog was able to get around the fence), broken bones and potential loss of life, so i just kept my cool and tried to calm him down a bit. it proved successful, but i still feel slightly pride struck that i allowed myself to be overwhelmed and pushed for around 20minutes without retaliating in some magical muscle memory fashion at the slightest glimpse of an opening. the eye opener was just how effective aggression alone can be in stunning someone and that my character is flawed to be a pacifist. after the altercation i had with this guy i actually felt thankful more than anything, i felt that he gave me a gift. I've done work in security for many years and dealt with many angry people, but none threatened me quite the way this situation did, ever since then i've doubled my training efforts and worked a lot on my physical strength

@KenpoKid77

11 ай бұрын

Your desire to live a life of peace is not a character flaw, brother. It's actually the thing that will make you a great martial artist, because that is the whole purpose of martial arts: to end conflict and protect life. It will compel you to find the most efficient and peaceful way to deal with acts of habitual violence. As Morio Higaonna once said, success and failure, wins and losses, it's all training.

@bilbobaggins4462

11 ай бұрын

Excellent post Daniel-San. You've mastered the art of humility which is arguably one of the most elusive characteristics of the true warrior. Thanks for sharing this story.

@williamkrevey1098

11 ай бұрын

I like your perspective. Perhaps you could have handled him but you would have had to use destructive techniques that would not have been appropriate for a calm mind. Imagine how that would have escalated if you had took out his knee, elbow throat... court costs etc. etc. Having been there myself, I'd have to say my own ego hurt me more than anything that guy did. I've been trying to come to terms with this in my training aswell. I have for some time considered my karate to be primarily strike based with emphasis on power strikes. One hit one kill sort of thing, but with power building combos added on top of that. Pre Queensbury rules boxing seems to have allot of parallels in my thinking. But what my training doesn't have is good pain compliance moves. Wish it did, but when I tryed those techniques in real situations like bouncing at the local bar, they didn't work for me against angry drunks? ( and sad to admit but I talking 20 years of accumulated practic ) So do I keep trying figuring out complex techniques ( thankfully I don't do security work) of stick with my punching log and kumite and just keep perfecting my "self"? I do enjoy a bit of weight training etc. But pushing myself physically to be "stronger" would end up working against me in the long run. There's always a bigger guy.

@raymondvia3786

11 ай бұрын

I agree with deescelation so you don't use your skills but I lost my first cousin to a very violent stabbing in 1991. In these days of assuming shootings and violent machete attacks its a wise thing to work on techniques that could very well maim or worse case scenario send someone into eternity. Killing is very much frowned upon and my Christian beliefs reflect this, but there comes a time when you commit or die physically. We as martial artists strive to avoid the very thing we abhor but allowing someone to take your life is just as wrong as promoting violence. Every life has worth and if I have to learn some truly violent stuff, then so be it. Here's from someone who used to be a loony brained liberal.

@raymondvia3786

11 ай бұрын

Oops I should have said mass shootings.

Great explanation already on the video description. Makes total sense! Can't wait to see the video! 🙂

Isn't it funny that no matter how you try to encourage some people to learn and understand the differences, they just don't want to accept it. "Paintbrush and nail" is an analogy that works on so many levels. A great video Iain, I sincerely hope that it reaches many karate-ka, as the process of this understanding in some, is not accepted, or at the very least, is very slow. Thank you.

@sramdeojohn4428

11 ай бұрын

🥋👌✌️

As always, fantastic insight, knowledge and practical examples. Great video.👍🏼

So many people do not and not only do not, they also refuse to realize this about katas.

Your knowledge is excellent. Thank you for the ebook. We appreciate you!

Great post Iain insightful and inspiring as usual. A bad workman will blame his tools, but a great tradesman will have the right tools and know exactly when & how to use them efficiently and effectively

LOVE EVERYTHING Sensei ABERNETHY seminars on! A great martial artist!!

Always like your video's, very informative and thought provoking.

Thanks Iain!! This was great! You said it so eloquently!

Excellent video, thank you!

Excellent explanation. Just wish people claiming to teach traditional martial arts could grasp this concept when explaining bunkai.

I like your videos so much! Bow from Switzerland 🥋

I really like how he explained this, i knew this 30 plus years ago and like training in different martial arts. It served its purpose and still till this day i'm still learning it's crazy how far we've come while practicing and teaching martial arts through the century's.

Very informitive video, I'm sharing this with all my whatsapp groups.

Lovely stuff 🌟

This was great, sir! New subscriber here!

Great work.

Excellent advice

I spent my first years studying the old masters of Okinawan karate. I read everything printed about them. I wanted to understand the old mindset and goals. Your analysis is spot on. I got so lucky with teachers and mentors

a wonderful video with a wealth of information.

thanks Iain

I’ve been a proponent of this sort of thinking for 20 years.

So it can be said: “Always perform the kata exactly; combat is another matter’.” applies towards the needs of different types of confrontations.

Nice T Shirt Iain, Osu!

I love this guy! In Australia, we would label him a "BLOODY LEGEND!" He would be a handful in a street fight! I am a closet 'Karate Man' and this guy has helped me feel better about coming out to the Wrestling and BJJ community. Everyone is cynical about Kata in the MMA community. I have realised there are many Kata-type movements in wrestling and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. As a Bouncer for 13 years in Sydney, Australia, I think the most important things to learn at the beginning is how to sprawl and how to escape a guillotine and rear naked choke, then boxing head movement. Collar ties, thai clench and arm drags. When you go for a job as a Bouncer, they ask, how do you escape a Guillotine choke? & How do you stop a Rugby Tackle? If you cannot answer, we post you in the Toilet to ensure everyone washes their hands and no one skips the Queue. We tell Bouncers if they do not want to be in the men's Toilet all night when they come back the next shift than show us how to Guillotine choke. & How do you stop a Rugby Tackle with a sprawl? A lot of Black Belt Bouncers get posted in the Toilet. I love Kata I see it as a moving meditation. After years of Greco Roman Wrestling and Thai Boxing, I have returned to karate to learn Kata. I grew up doing karate pre-UFC, and I was not prepared for the violence of a street fight at the door of a nightclub. It is so different to the dojo. This instructor helped me transition back to karate. He answered many of my questions and addressed many of my doubts and frustrations.

Kata, tao, poomsee is a way to train body with martial art techniques when alone in my point of view. You Can train those with partner to correct mistakes but you can do plenty of other things not alone..

my flabby and brief karate career was ended by an over enthusiastic throw and a wrenched knee, but this is still v interesting and to the point. as usual!

I agree with all of this, 100%! :)

Hi @practicalkatabunkai . This is brilliant and I am hoping to get the go ahead to suggest the jujutsu schools I'm with link to this vid on their respective websites.

Hi Iain! I've used the Habitual Acts of violence list to show how kata is designed for self defense (non consensual violence), and not fighting. Great to see your presentation. Will share it. (And will make sure Marc sees it., too) BTW, when you said kata is not about winning, senior Okinawans are now saying the importance isn't to win, it's to not lose. I've seen people scratching their heads at that because they can't grasp the difference as they are too focused on consensual fighting. As you know, when we were out here, our ippons are started from the distance where the participants are only an arms length apart or less, and the defender has to start in a natural stance with their hands down. This has freaked out people who are used to the one steps being at a longer distance with their hands already up. Have watched people with 20+ years of experience fall apart on even simple defenses under just that one change.

@KenpoKid77

11 ай бұрын

What's interesting about the "not losing" point you made is, it's not even a new concept. Gichin Funakoshi listed it in his 10 Precepts of Karate over a hundred years ago...we're still just catching up to it. And to this day it still boggles people's minds because, as you say, we attach a win/loss or zero-sum mentality to combat. I've also noticed how that simple change in one-steps throws so many people off. More often than not, you will be attacked when you not in fight mode, i.e., walking down the street or in the parking lot. So it makes sense to model one's practice after real-life situations.

@ehisey

11 ай бұрын

"not losing" is a very old concept in martial arts. In a time and place winning meant you would likely still die of injuries received, this idea was critical to understanding how to survive violent encounters. You don't have the beat the other guy down, so long as you can walk away with little or no injuries at the end of it you meet the objective. Almost anything else can be replaced, but life and limb are still only one time things.

Nice video Ian and all so true. I recall back in the 1970’s a friend of mine had just become the Scottish karate champion, I was impressed and thought he was a pretty good fighter, an eye opener came a week or so later when we were down the pub. He got into an argument just after we arrived, then was knocked out cold with one punch. What’s effective on the competition floor does not translate well to self defence.

@theaikidoka

11 ай бұрын

He may well have been hard as nails and an amazing fighter, but it's entierly possible that he was mentally 'getting ready' as you would with a contest where there's a defined start, and the other man just attacked. Villians DON'T play by the rules.

@kbanghart

11 ай бұрын

​​@@theaikidokaalso, it's possible he didn't want to fight.

As always, great explanatory video. You would think by now most karate practionners (especially those who teach) would at least have a minimal understanding of what you and many like you teach about kata? Sorry to say you're still a pioneer and need to continue "ploughing the field" before your teachings become common knowledge. Keep up the good work! BTW, what's up with the kyokushin shirt? No complaints here as that is my style of karate, but I always thought you had no affiliation to a particular style... Besides, I always thought you had more of a traditional Okinawa background rather than Japanese (or maybe Shotokan)?

@ehisey

11 ай бұрын

Honestly not surprised most don't. ALot of karate "schools" today use new forms to seem unique or special that have no grounding in the concepts that formed the original katas. Add to this the lose of understanding and proper technique execution for extreme version of them to win sport competitions and you will for ever have a repeating cycle of lost information.

That s make a lot of sense. So many karatekas pretend to make an real traditional karate etc etc but don t even know the history of karate and what it was realy designed for… and are truly fanatics… They should see your work… I have less problems with people who makes sports karate… they do that and don t pretend to do something else. Thanks for your videos and your work Ian!

this also applies temporally, not matter what your martial art. What standard do you want to maintain over how long at what cost? many people would rather be just OK at self defense while staying healthy across 5 decades, than to be great at fighting for 10 years and sustain lasting health issues or needing 3 knee surgeries

@LupusMagus

11 ай бұрын

In hindsight me. I have spent 30 years doing various martial arts and gradually building up lasting health issues as a result. I have no intention of stopping but if I could go back I would train very differently, with a lot less ego, and a lot more care of my joints.

My opinion - The initial advantage is with the attacker. He has selected you as his target. He is primed and ready to go. It's the kata's ability to instill a flinch reaction against the inital barrage of attacks and counter using muscle memory. Only within the parameter of a self defense situation, where a sudden attack has been initiated, will the kata repond and expose its leathal side. In a flight or fight reponse, the kata will defend and counter. That is why all katas start with a defense and counter strike. Katas cannot work to create a premeditated attack, like when sparring.

@robocoastie

11 ай бұрын

That’s right, exception of circle block in sparring Kata goes out the window in kumite. Edit/add and perhaps raised knee vs kick block

Thank you for your logical words. Decades ago we were taught there is no attack in Karate. The kata were secondary to learnining practical street defense. Later on I learned that certain bunkai were nonsense, deliberately misleading the gaijin in the early days after the war. But that they were, if practiced properly, the basis for developing very strong fighting fundamentals that are successful in a violent attack. The surprise factor is huge. So walking circumpspectly is required for any defense to succeed, is it not? I wonder if you have seen the movie High Kick Girl? The sensei in that flick is very traditional, but the student is rebellious. Of course she is not very fond of kata. And in the final battle the master uses kata technique to vanquish the evil gang. It SO COOL. Lots of fun with some interesting application, and fight scenes. God bless you. Thanks again.

my age 71yr from Glasgow Scotland when I started training I would go to rival gang clubs a few off them it was the nearest to a street fight I have been trained in boxing and takwondo and karate never bothered taking grades some black belts wouldn't even spar with me and I'm not that good

What your saying here is similar to what Patrick McCarthy says in his translation of the Bubishi.

I'm a kung fu practitioner, not a karateka, but it always seemed to me that a lot of the problem is that we use the same word ("form") for too many different things. Sometimes (like in wu shu) you use the word form to refer to an artistic display of skill. Sometimes (like in wing chun) you use the word form to refer to a catalogue of concepts or techniques, listed for comprehensiveness more than for application. Sometimes (like in Okinawan karate) you use the word form to refer to a self-defense formula (a "combo" in boxing speak) for application to a specific situation. If "kata" had originally been translated as "combination" instead of "form", I wonder if karate's history would be different.

What really helped me understand kata was practicing it with one hand at a time. You'll see how the hand goes from attack to deflect to grab to break. With the feet, each static point (kiai) is a certain kick. Example* horse stance equals side kick. Cat stance equals front kick. Forward stance equals roundhouse kick. In case the attacker goes out of close range fighting, kicking allows you to attack, move in and deal with his block at close range again.

@gbrldz0

7 ай бұрын

I study shorin ryu katas.

Te recomiendo que veas por ejemplo el bunkai de kata y creo que empezarás a ver las cosas de diferente manera...

True, but the techniques individually do work against trained fighters tho, I use them all the time. So it's not absolutely useless to practice those techniques on the "wrong" context, if you can phrase it like that.

@theaikidoka

11 ай бұрын

The techniques absolutely do work against trained fighters, but in that context it's a matter of who can predict a movement, or elicit a predictable and exploitable response by giving a stimuli. It isn't about the techniques themselves ie who knows which techniques, but an if-this-then-that exchange.

@cahallo5964

11 ай бұрын

@@theaikidoka The point I am trying to convey is, you can't use a paintbrush as a hammer but you definitively can use a pipewrench

I know that in kata or formsmost people don’t know that one movement or a half a movement does have some battle sequence. It’s actually 100 or 2000 movement from that one move from your karate or form doesn’t how many years or decades that age change over form a combat the movement is self. It’s gonna relate to the scenario, and it becomes and it adapts, so it will actually deform itself into a strike a throw or allows you to push or redirect and attack even becomes call joint lock is actually 100 or 1000 move in that one technique in that one movement alone. We just have to look a little closer. And the sequence it’s not gonna look that perfect once you go into actual comeback or actual defending yourself and if you look at your foot work, you have to look at the basic principle of foot work that’s what most people don’t look at doesn’t matter what style you had to go forward you had to go backwards you have to go left you got to go right and you had to turn into a direction for the technique that happens but it’s going to deform itself because you’re adapting to a different style. You have to look at it very closely. It’s multiple techniques not one. Out of one movement or I have a technique or a full technique.

My first sensei had a blue belt woman student who successfully defended herself agaisnt two heavyweight male attackers in a gang rape scenario. She knew all the basic hand strikes and kicks, sanchin kata, seisan kata, and the five swords counter-attack combo from Kenpo Karate and she ended up maiming both of her attackers. By blue belt in that style, youd trained about six months in submissions and full-contact sparring and nine months in basic striking total. White, Yellow, Orange, Blue belt.

I salute your resolve @daniel-san836. I've trained almost 20 years and had ONE altercation where I could have met the motorcyclist with the same angry energy he was displaying. But my calmness quelled his anger, even though he damaged, physically, my car and he eventually realised he was wrong. We shook hands and drove away. The accident was actually my fault but no harm done and only my car damaged! Lol

I practice Shorin Ryu, they explain all about the techniques that's incorporated with the Kata, you have to think about what the techniques your doing "Not How? But Why?"

Yes Kata is what has gotten me through situations without throwing a punch or kick, the blocks mostly inside or outside circle ones has taken the fight out of the person, embarrassed him etc. that and just shutting my mouth, not antagonizing makes it obvious he’s the aggressor

Where can you see the translated book?

@practicalkatabunkai

11 ай бұрын

Which one? If you're asking about the Itosu letter translation, you can find it here: iainabernethy.co.uk/article/10-precepts-anko-itosu

A great read if your not familiar with this book,is Shotokan Secrets!

The difference between a match and a real fight. The level difference is very different

I’m a little bit different from most martial artists in that I’m into stage fighting rather than actual combat, so for me what “looks cool” is more important than what’s effective, but this makes *so much* sense. Actual violence has nothing to do with duelling. Watch any KZread video of football violence, a street fight or prison riot, where’s ju-jitsu? Where’s Muay Thai? Where’s boxing? Not much chance for technique when six scrappy lads rush you with crow bars! But the principles of violence hold true & you should know them, our ancestors knew that & we should pass it on today 💜

The kata is important for the strategy of sticking to combinations. One wrong step and you lose every real fight on the street.

An interesting point is that in almost all katas, especially the Heian katas, there is no moving away, back, from your opponent or aggressor, but at most you hold your ground or move towards him. It's a clue about the situation being that of self defense, where there is no time or space to move back

@apubakeralpuffdaddy392

11 ай бұрын

Heian Nidan - side step, which is slight move backward.

@kbanghart

11 ай бұрын

​@@apubakeralpuffdaddy392where is that in the kata?

@apubakeralpuffdaddy392

11 ай бұрын

@@kbanghart the 7th move

@kbanghart

11 ай бұрын

@@apubakeralpuffdaddy392 no idea which one that is. But, that's ok. In the system I currently train in, we call them pinans. Just trying to figure out which one may be moving slightly backward and I can't picture it at the moment

@apubakeralpuffdaddy392

11 ай бұрын

@@kbanghart Ah, Pian Nidan. Shito Ryu. I am talking Shotokan Heian Nidan.

It would help if you'd make a transcript of this available. You're very hard to understand.

@practicalkatabunkai

11 ай бұрын

I have Cumbrian accent of which I am very proud. Some parts of the world find it easy to follow, others not so much. I think that would be true of whatever accent I had. I could write it all out, and that would be helpful for some, but I’ve not got the time. I’m therefore not for everyone :-)

@Hou413

10 ай бұрын

If you press the “cc” button it turns on closed captions (subtitles) if you needed help following what he’s saying 😊

@practicalkatabunkai

10 ай бұрын

@@Hou413 Technology to the rescue! :-)

If kata (and karate) main focus was defending against non-trained attackers. It may shock you, but could I say that original karate was some kind of traditional krav-maga (in terms of mindset and obective at least)?

@kaylemkerr6989

11 ай бұрын

Yes you're not wrong and I feel similar. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure krav maga took direct influence from some of the self defense aspects of karate. Krav maga in the context in which your talking about is a form of civilian self protection and protection of others if your lucky enough to learn that too. Just like how karate was originally intended, it has nothing to do with sport, fighting/ defending yourself under a specific set of rules or entertaining others. Both karate and krav maga deliberately encourage or at the least teach dirty striking techniques in hopes that it allows one to escape a situation. P.s. I'm not fully sure about this but wasn't Bruce Lee's 'Jeet Kune Do' meant to serve a similar function?

@amongrimmie4779

11 ай бұрын

Krav magá veio do karatê e do aikidô. Krav magá é uma espécie de karatê antigo sem os treinamentos formais que moldam os movimentos. Eu, particularmente, acho uma farsa.

Kata is for training Zanshin, body muscle, expansion, breathing and kime … definition in short. If you train kata, zanshin and kime or ki will grow more and more in your technique. When you practice bunkai as kumite you understand the concept of fighting of kata 😊

@practicalkatabunkai

11 ай бұрын

As per the video, I would say that the methodology of kata is aimed at non-consensual violence (self-protection) and opposed to consensual violence (fighting). I agree bunkai needs practised as kumite, but it’s important that kumite is structured to reflect non-consensual violence.

Do read this new one titled Myths and blind spots in the fighting arts’ world.

Wonderful explanation. I tell my sensi all the time.... Karate is not a sport

@practicalkatabunkai

11 ай бұрын

Today, it can be a sport too ... but the older verison of karate (as recorrded in the traditional kata) was not a sport.

Youre a kyokushinkai karateka,is this correct??.😮

Its a funny old game mate. We met years ago at a Geoff Thompson seminar and had a brief conversation. But to the subject I've been for the last 20 years not a capoeira man, which in the UK at least does it best to dissasociate itself with practical self defense. There are 8 sequences that were introduced by a guy in the 20's that are sort of considered traditional in some schools, but they are completely for capoeira on capoeira competition. Also I tend to largly ignore them these days partially because I think there are better things to spend your time on and partly because of doing them every session for 13 years I got sick to the back of my teeth with them. Anyway, you do get a few people who want to promote capoeira as a martial art, which inevitably means all the self defense drill come out, and to my discerning eye they're terrible. You do get a lot of Brazillian who do capoeira who can fight, but I'll be honest I think most of them could fight without it, and they cross train in BJJ and boxing a lot of the time, then as you say get pissed up and have a few scraps. For myself I've not thrown a punch in anger in 25 years now, long may it continue. But thinking back to my last spot of bother I was scrapping with three lads (not by choice) and it was much like Tyoco Shodan (apologies for the spelling) which is to say walking onto them with punches timed to my steps, I think... long time ago. Judging by how they backed off it seemed to work. Then the bouncer nearly pulled my head off, chucked us all out and they caught me again down the road and gave my a good kicking that time. Nevermind. Anyway its good to see you're still going. I'm trying to keep my hand in but its hard at the moment, not feeling very motivated but its good to see a face from the past, even if it was a very brief encounter

@practicalkatabunkai

11 ай бұрын

Good to touch base again! Thanks for saying, "a face from the past" as opposed to, "an old face" :-) It would have been true, but I apprecaite the phrasing.

@ehisey

11 ай бұрын

I know so old capo guys that are still very practical with it as a fighting art. I think all are Angola style guys, and make a clear seperation between the exchanges in the game, the fast brutal response need to for violence.

Our senior sensei always teaches us that kata application starts with hand on each other. I just call it ugly karate.

I have only practice Katate for street real fighting. Never done sport or point fishing Karate.old OKINAWA GOJU RYU.

Interesting video, but still I just know there will be people in r/martialarts watching this and saying, "Yeah but a BJJ white belt beats anyone who does Karate." If they bother watching, not convinced they're all there to increase their understanding of Martial Arts.

@josef-peterroemer5309

7 ай бұрын

Not really there is a Japanese Karate fighter who has beat every family Gracie fighter.

@mattiethemongoose3rd

7 ай бұрын

Those people will ignore or deny that. @@josef-peterroemer5309

Nobody ever said that we should be limited by kata or that we shouldn't learn more. People focus so much on kata because a lot of time and effort is put into kata simply to learn and perfect same. Then learning the bunkai along with the kata takes a lot of time and effort. I don't know any purists any longer and haven't for a very long time. We all know that every "style" and "system" have their limitations and its strengths. Nothing works perfectly all the time and in every situation. It all relies on the individual anyway. No style is better or worse than another. Is grappling and throwing better than kicking and striking? It's a nonsense question. It depends on the individual and the situation. Then you have to think about what you are trying to accomplish. Are you training to become a good tournament point fighter, an MMA fighter, a good full contact fighter, what? To each his own. However, saying that kata is not for fighting is as nonsensical as saying that doing bare knuckle pushups is not for fighting. Kata is what it is. It is simply part of a larger picture. And, if kata is all you can do or have time to do, well, it's better than nothing. You can't learn it all in one lifetime anyway. Learn as much as you can. Perfect as much as you can. Train daily. Stay humble. Don't criticize other systems and styles. As long as your criticizing you can't learn from them. Have a good time.

@practicalkatabunkai

11 ай бұрын

Can I ask if you have watched the video or are responding to the title? I ask because the points you make don’t seem to reflect what is said in the video. You seem to have misundertood the title. I agree that kata needs to be part of a larger process, but the video is not criticising kata but instead clarifying its intent i.e. to address non-consensual criminal violence (self-protection) as opposed to consensual violence (fighting).

Eventually, you'll see it all as one. I began to understand this between 30 years and 40 years. It's been 50 years now and it all seems so simple, almost laughable.

@practicalkatabunkai

11 ай бұрын

I can guarantee I won’t :-) The are very different and I have worked hard to mark the important distinction between them in my training and teaching. To blur the distinction would be a backward that would negatively impact my practise and teaching of both consensual and no-consensual violence. The differences matter.

Ah, yes! The reminder that kata is about non-consentual violence.

Mostly ShotoKaN karate, more In kata'S,, than in sparring,, or Kumite, Compare to kyokushin karate,, more in Kumite or sparring,,, If I'm correct,,🙄😒

it's stupid to think that you can be w/o western boxing & i dont know why so many karate guys have a hard time accepting it.

@practicalkatabunkai

11 ай бұрын

Three out of my four karate instructors also trained in boxing / full contact karate. Many of those methods have always been a part of karate as I was taught it. However, consensual violence still isn’t non-consensual violence. They are very different. People can train both, but both suffer when they get confused as being the same.

Need your help lbeen in karate for 20 years the thing is my girlfriend from china she does wingchun she wants me give up karate to change to wingchun like your vedlos put lt hard when old school like love old japan karate 1950. Put lhave open mind lhave alot of jefff thompson vedlos 3 second fighter pavement area and done the fence like use word to engage the brain why you .picking on me then hid allso watched hours of lee morrison vedlos why do need your help.because your wise do you think you can waik from karateafter 20 years for wing chun my japan master was 7 dan hes head of temple karate centre birmingham in 19 80 lno karate is your life so be grateful lf help me on thhis jeffthompson said lf lcouild teach one thing lt wouild be the fence allbest seamus

It is if you can fight. Saying it is not shows one's lack of knowledge and understanding combat. Its Just cowardly running away from sparring and pressure testing. Same excuse as "to deadly for sport fighting"

@theaikidoka

11 ай бұрын

I don't think you realise who you are talking about. Iain's level of knowledge, his practical experience and his habit of pressure testing are all well known in the martial arts community. He absolutely can walk the walk. He is saying that kata is a tool for a particular purpose - you're saying it's for a different purpose but the evidence supports him, not you. People DON'T use kata techniques in sparring, they use a different set of techniques, different timing and responses.

@practicalkatabunkai

11 ай бұрын

I think you have missed the point and have made false assumptions about my wider thinking. Training for non-consensual violence also requires pressure testing and sparring / live drills. It’s a must. The big difference is that the nature and goals of that live training is a good fit for non-consensual violence i.e. you live drill escape, protecting others, dealing with groups, considering the surrounding environment, etc. I agree the “too deadly for sport” argument is a bad one, which is why I have spoken about that at length previously (iainabernethy.co.uk/content/banned-methods). Nevertheless, live training for one thing - while ignoring the different goal, different strategies, different tactics, etc - and expecting perfect crossover to another thing is inefficient at best and extremely ineffective at worst. I agree live practise is a must, and I have never said otherwise in 23 years of publicly sharing my thoughts. I would add the live training needs to be specific for the goal being sought. It’s also possible to train for more than one type of violence, providing that the discussion is kept clear in training and thinking. I hope that helps clarify.

@ehisey

11 ай бұрын

How say to did not watch the video or remotely understand what is being discussed. This about Kata specificly, not about karate in generally, Karate can readily be trained for sport application and is all the time. It has even taken the top belt in the UFC.

@DamianLaszuk

11 ай бұрын

@@theaikidokahow to say you can not read with understanding (primery school skills...) and use logical fallacies... i am speaking about the kata and whats in it specifically

@DamianLaszuk

11 ай бұрын

@@practicalkatabunkai you say or rather repeat after that kata is not good for fighting, for consensual violence. I day that i used it with much success in pro fights. Where is the wrong assumption? And The discussion was not about what you write in your reply..

They "are not" for fighting because you really do not understand the conditions of their use and you don't know how to train them for real use. So inevitably they become something for another purpose. -I actually know what I am seeing in kata moves, regardless that no one cares or knows how to bring the moves to life.

@practicalkatabunkai

11 ай бұрын

The comment suggests you have not watched the video? The kata are for non-consensual criminal violence (self-protection) and not consensual violence (an agreed fight with a defined win). To use them for non-consensual criminal violence, you do need to understand them and train them correctly and as a part of a wider and integrated process. If you are looking for methods for consensual violence, you won’t find them.

@outofthebox7

11 ай бұрын

@@practicalkatabunkai1) Yes, it's true I have not watched it. My comment is in regards to the fallacious title. When that is so simple to understand, but wrong, why waste time with false argumentation that will follow in the video. 2) Kata moves are for self-protection. In a ring setting (as well) you will protect yourself. This means that the use of some kata moves may still be helpful in there (depending on your mastery of the moves and the opponents abilities). 3) Having said that, you should add here my first post to close the circle; read it again very carefully. Thank you for your time.

@practicalkatabunkai

11 ай бұрын

@@outofthebox7 YOU WROTE: 1) Yes, it's true I have not watched it. That’s a common problem. I personally think people should watch the video before commenting on it. YOU WROTE: My comment is in regards to the fallacious title. It’s not fallacious. Kata is not for fighting (consensual violence) but for dealing with criminal violence (non-consensual violence). This is clear both historically and by observing the nature of the kata. YOU WROTE: why waste time with false argumentation that will follow in the video. I didn’t. If you watch the video, you will find out I don’t say what you have assumed I have. YOU WROTE: 2) Kata moves are for self-protection. In a ring setting (as well) you will protect yourself. This means that the use of some kata moves may still be helpful in there (depending on your mastery of the moves and the opponents abilities). Yes, there is some minor crossover. However, the differences matter far more than the similarities. Aside from the techniques themselves (some cross over, some don’t), there are HUGE difference in how they are applied i.e. differing goal, strategy and tactics. Kata was never created for a consensual exchange. You agree that, “Kata moves are for self-protection”. Therefore, I think that if you watch the video, you will find your original comment was inappropriate as it was based on an assumption you made and not what I actually said. You’ll probably also find the title is correct. All the best, Iain

@outofthebox7

11 ай бұрын

@@practicalkatabunkai 1)"It’s not fallacious. Kata is not for fighting," contradicts: " "..but for dealing with criminal violence (non-consensual violence)." -Therefore the title is fallacious. 2)Another contradiction: "Yes, there is some minor crossover." So it's moves may come handy in a ring. Point made. Imagine if one trains them for a ring fight... (One needs a lot of imagination and knowledge for that.) 3) You "didn't" what??" I am talking there about false argumentation that must follow the false claim in the title. You add: "If you watch the video, you will find out I don’t say what you have assumed I have. " -OK I will watch it, but you did say it in your title. 4) It's true that a ring and street fight are very different and for many reasons. Again I say however that traditional moves will never work in the ring if they are not understood and trained for a combat sport. They will not be go-to moves of course and will break down upon impact. It is not however the moves fault, it's the wrong, superficial training. 5) "Kata was never created for a consensual exchange." This just sounds like a comfortable chant. -The moves in a kata come from experience in fighting that is why they are designed the way they are. If I do a gedan barai to a kick in the street, I can do a gedan barai in a ring. It's that simple. Likewise, all the best.

@practicalkatabunkai

11 ай бұрын

@@outofthebox7 YOU WROTE: "It’s not fallacious. Kata is not for fighting," contradicts: " "..but for dealing with criminal violence (non-consensual violence)." -Therefore, the title is fallacious. It’s really not and there is no contradiction … as you will see when you actually watch the video :-) Fighting (consensual violence) and self-protection in the face of criminal activity (non-consensual violence) are not the same thing. YOU WROTE: “Another contradiction: "Yes, there is some minor crossover." So it's moves may come handy in a ring. Point made.” Elephants and rats are both grey, but they are not the same despite some commonality. You can’t point to some commonality and then ignore the massive differences as a result. Trips to the zoo would be a rip off for a start! Training needs to be specific. The differences between consensual and non-consensual violence are huge. The cross over will always be incomplete on its own and completely unfocused. YOU WROTE: “OK I will watch it, but you did say it in your title.” When you do watch it (in full) you will see why the title is accurate. YOU WROTE: “The moves in a kata come from experience in fighting that is why they are designed the way they are.” As the video explains, the sources (Itosu, Motobu, et al) are clear that kata is NOT for fighting (consensual violence) but dealing with criminal activity (non-consensual violence). They are designed the way they are because the address non-consensual violence and NOT fighting. Watch the video and then you will see what I am getting at. All the best, Iain

You talk a lot but practically you have shown nothing

@practicalkatabunkai

11 ай бұрын

You are right! I am sorry and can see the error of my ways. In this one video I have talked about one specific concept in isolation. I should have included loads of techniques and everything else I talk about in this video too. It may make for an extremely long and unfocussed video though. Oh wait, I have recorded lots of other videos where I show techniques and cover other topics! While you are waiting for me to record KZread’s longest ever video, you could watch those instead? Is that too obvious? I feel I must be missing something because that feels way too obvious?

@ehisey

11 ай бұрын

Considering the topic of the video why would you expect a lot things to be shown?

This guy my be very experienced in karate but he is a horrible presenter. He babbles a lot and takes forever to get to the point.

@practicalkatabunkai

11 ай бұрын

As Einstein said, “We should make things as simple as possible, but no simpler.” Some topics are nuanced and require a more detailed explanation. This is one of them. Without covering all the key points, the explanation would be lacking and misunderstandings could easily arise. I make videos for those who chose to watch them and who like the fact I try to give sufficient detail. My videos are not for everyone and videos by other people are available on this platform.