Very well explained. As someone who trains in both karate and judo I can see so much crossover. Combining the two in my training makes it so much more fun.

@igotmydd214

3 жыл бұрын

Kenji, I am subscribed to your channel as well. Can you make a response video to this video? I would be very interested in watching your response video.

@makenjikarate

3 жыл бұрын

@@igotmydd214 that would be interesting, I can do a video about judo style throws in karate Kata however I don't know as much on the Goju-ryu side and it's history. Although it would still be a good idea, thanks.

@igotmydd214

3 жыл бұрын

@@makenjikarate If I may suggest, can you describe how Judo throws that can be applied from the standpoint of Naihanchi Shodan?

@makenjikarate

3 жыл бұрын

@@igotmydd214 I can add them into the video, however in my training I've only found one type of judo style throw in Naihanchi/Tekki. There are other techniques that can be used as throws and I'm sure there are more, but I use Naihanchi mostly as close quarters clinch fighting.

@igotmydd214

3 жыл бұрын

@@makenjikarate a followup for my suggestion: I was speaking of Naihanchi Shodan from the perspective of Shorin-Ryu, I believe it is called Tekki Shodan in Shotokan

Every Karate guy should do Judo. If Judo is not available do wrestling or BJJ

@igotmydd214

3 жыл бұрын

Fantastic username!

@santiagoj9042

3 жыл бұрын

Wrestling would be better than bjj or judo, because it doesn't require a gi.

@adhdmed

2 жыл бұрын

I mix karate with BJJ because it's easier to learn for an older person. Judo is easy for younger people

Great video. I trained Shotokan primarily, but have cross trained with other style and marveled at how Shotokan, and any karate style, dovetails so well with grappling techniques. Later as I developed a deeper understanding of karate history I realized how obvious the connection was. It really culminated with my study of Hoteikan Ryu in Brooklyn, which trains Shotokan, Judo and Sosuishi Ryu Jiu Jitsu. And yes, BJJ is a great complement to karate!

Dude, you're awesome. Great content, well researched, and I learn something from every video. Well Done!

Nice video, very informative 👍🏻

Nice video, I got a little lost in the middle but got back on track towards the end. Thank you 😊

Very interesting theories. Especially since u got some pretty cool books... I would like to see more pictures on the karate style of grappling...

Very interesting. Would love to see a comparison of joint locks in karate with a chinese or japanese style. Maybe Tau Chi, Eagle Claw or Aikido

Actually cross trining is the best you can do, because it provides with good new and old knoledge, and provides you from not sinking

Goju kenpo throws has taught from Ichikawa Sosui are simple to throw so the Adversary can NOT break fall with Budo mind doing as much damage as posible to the person you are throwing, Throw to smash /break Chris Bubish resipent.

Nice presentation! May I suggest also Karate-do Kyohan by Funakoshi for other examples of karate throws?

I love that you have Eiji Yoshikawa's Musashi in your bookcase. Awesome book! Curiously are you aware of the semi modern Budo martial art that's a mix of Karate (Japanese instead of Okinawan) and Judo known as Daido Juku/Kudo Karate?

I began to train with a friend whose style is shorin ryu, I was lucky to train with 2 profesional mma fighters a year before so when I look at those kata is striking clear all the joint locks, throws and other similarities with judo and jiu jitsu, many more than goju ryu katas.

Funakoshi also listed some throws in Karate do Kyohan not in Judo. IIRC there are some throws in the Bubishi that aren’t in Judo as well.

Probably the Canon of Judo is the bible of Judo with Mifune bring generally regarded as the technician. The Gokyo is simply regarded as the basics. There are hundreds of throws in the full Judo Curriculum.

Great topic, and let me commend you on citing your sources! It can be rare, but is appreciated. Personally, I am a Jiu-Jitero who has crossed over and is now learning Shorin-Ryu since the first pandemic lockdowns happened in the US. Not having BJJ was a major adjustment, but since my Karate Renaissance, I have undergone quite a phase change in my martial understanding. I think anyone will have a raised awareness of their martial art, as well as their chosen art to cross train with. The best martial art in the West to crosstrain in would be BJJ(specifically for this period in time). My reasoning is that the instruction of BJJ is such that most Jiu-Jiteros will get extensive experience in instant feedback from pressurized situations. *exceptions are students who cannot free role or are in professions that prohibit them from injury. I would like to add the caveat that the best martial art for a Karateka to crosstrain in will most likely change in the near future. In a couple of years it maybe Greco-Roman or Sambo.

@stupidfrog2205

3 жыл бұрын

Cross training is so essential for a martial arts practitioner, especially for karateka IMO due to the watering down of karate from the move to being a "sport". BJJ is a must for anybody, even just to learn about dealing with people "posting" and using your hips to escape bad positions. I did BJJ for a year on and off (it never grabbed my passion) and I'm lucky enough to know enough to escape some bad positions from an amateur poor level opponent.

@igotmydd214

3 жыл бұрын

@@stupidfrog2205 BJJ is also going through a change at this time. As Sport BJJ rises in popularity, the more watered down it is getting. I am still invested in continuing my BJJ journey; I have a lot of mat time, and have a talent for it. I plan to practice my Karate when I get back to rolling, as liberally as I can that doesn't violate the rules or hurt my training partners. As an example, I am currently drilling fundamentals of blocking and striking (Karate) through the lens where they translate to frames, arm drags, and ankle picks in BJJ.

@stupidfrog2205

3 жыл бұрын

@@igotmydd214 that sounds like a very good way to mix the two together, especially if you can flow them together. I have a history in amateur boxing and kickboxing, I only took up karate in early 2020 and while I'm 100% on board with learning karate, I'm still crosstraining and trying to mix karate in with everything I've learned so far. We're not robots, if you flow your karate into your BJJ naturally than that's great. Especially from what I understand is that Karate was originally more of a close range fighting style, perfect for mixing in BJJ techniques when it inevitably goes to the ground. Plus I guess you'll fight like John Wick which is always cool😆

@igotmydd214

3 жыл бұрын

@@stupidfrog2205 That is also a fantastic mix to have up your sleeve. If I may suggest, look up Majid Raees and Sensei Seth on KZread. Both have really good technical videos from that perspective, particularly Majid. Man, to be able to fight like John Wick; That would be intense! I should probably do all my training in a suit...as I wrote the last part I realized like that sounds like a terrible start for a TikTok video , which I may or may not post in the future 😳

@stupidfrog2205

3 жыл бұрын

@@igotmydd214 Sensei Seth is great, I'll look into Majid Raees now. I gotta say Jesse Enkamp was one of my biggest inspirations for taking up karate (along with being a nerd for Japanese culture and having read Funakoshi's book on "The essence of karate", a few years ago) As I've gotten older I found I care less about practical stuff (it's still super important) and a little more about the "art" side. My passion had fizzled out a few years ago and I just went training/sparring to stay sharp and maintain my skills while trying to improve my sparring ability. Since taking up karate I feel like that passion is back, I'm training more than I have in years and I feel passionate about trying to find out if I can use my existing skills to apply the "less practical" karate techniques that are usually never used in sparring. I can't stress how much I feel karate has inspired me

What grade do you reccomend to start cross training in Judo? I am actually a 4th kyu in shotokan karate (orange belt), and we don't train throws at all at my dojo. I thought I would wait until I reach black belt to take some Judo lessons in order to complement my Karate

@jedijudoka

2 жыл бұрын

As soon as possible. Why wait? Get good at both simultaneously.

Great video mate. Think youre spot on when you say Judo throws are better than Karate, simply because they practice them so much more. Judo was my first martial art, i only did it for 2/3 years, starting at the age of 8 or so... followed by a good 15 year break from martial arts before starting GoJu Ryu, but the teaching philosophies always stuck with me (particularly the breakfall drilling REPEATEDLY until i felt sick, saved my life and bones more times than i can count, honestly. trump-card and life-skill right there!) and it is so apparent the level of understanding of combat that it gave me, compared to many karateka when it gets up close, most karateka dont seem to know how to fight me in sparring when i get a hand on them. we usually spar with throws and some grappling, unless sensei is trying to make us work on certain blocks or strikes, then he'll say no throws, making sure he has eye contact with me when he says it hahaha! the other thing is, like in BJJ, the capacity to safely go pretty much full on intensity, without hurting your opponent badly. its a unique experience to have someone trying as hard as they can to perform a technique on you, while trying to stop you from doing yours, and slamming you into the ground repeatedly. just more reasons it is ESSENTIAL to learn some level of grappling, like the Ju side of GoJu, it is far more applicable in self defence situations (theyre not all street brawls, and you dont want to look like the aggressor in a pub/bar by knocking people out straight away... prison time there for many countries...) i feel like the origins of karate are deeply influenced by Japanese JuJutsu. theres a traditional JuJutsu guy that does seminars a couple of times a year at my dojo, because of the similarities between JuJutsu and specifically GoJu/Wado/Uechi Ryu styles. its amazing how similar some of it is, whilst slightly different. because like you say in your video... they never altered it to appease boxing fans haha as for your out of breath, full on video haha, bet you felt like you'd been performing all those throws man!! chill, remember your breathing katas like sanchin... slow down with your barrage of brilliant information! viewers will likely find it easier to digest and it will humanise you. this is positive critique to take or leave, i'll still watch as much of your stuff as i can either way :) keep up the great work bro! (sorry for the long ass comment)

@Samlaren

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for sharing, very interesting read! Just as a sidenote, Japanese JuJustu comes from Japanese Samurai training, and Karate comes from Okinawa and China, so no influence there, if anything it is the other way around :)

@leavemealoneyouprick

3 жыл бұрын

​@@Samlaren yeah, im aware that the major noted influences of Karate are Monk Fist Boxing (aka modern day Incense Shop Boxing), Crane Kung Fu styles and the Bubushi etc. but its also a known fact that the Okinawan masters, pre "Karate" namesake, traded martial knowledge with anyone they could to add to their martial knowledge and understanding. they even encouraged learning foreign arts. It's also a known fact that The Ryu Kyu Kingdom traded with all the countries it shares waters with... Japan, China, Korea, etc... even the Philippines, i believe :) JuJutsu and its various forms that also predate its categorisations with such names, is a bit of a granddaddy of martial arts. im not saying that "Karate is basically a rip off of JuJutsu", or visa versa... far from it... Karate is far more strike focused, but the "Ju" or "soft" side of styles like GoJu Ryu has many similarities. i think its beautiful. :) although a lot of the cause for developing such brutal "soft" combat techniques in JuJutsu was because if you lost your weapon, punching someone wearing armour was largely a bad idea... and fights end a lot quicker if you can throw someone on the ground and break their arms or choke them to death in 10 seconds or so haha.

@leavemealoneyouprick

3 жыл бұрын

oh yeah, just to clarify, the karateka at my GoJu Ryu dojo do learn throws, take downs and grappling submissions, but its a much smaller focus, particularly the submission grappling. my advantage is literally just muscle memory from my Judo sensei being tough on me (in a nice way) and being the smallest in the class. all those darn reps... but the basics always win!

I wonder how Okinawan karate throws compare to Tradational Jujutsu's throws, in terms of similaritys, execution, principles and key differences.

@burgeryoufoundbehindthegrill

3 жыл бұрын

Kodokan Judo is a synthesis of mainly two schools of Jujutsu, with influences and overlap from many schools. Originally it was called Jujutsu, but because it was for self-improvement instead of warfare, Jigoro Kano decided to call it Judo instead of Jujutsu. If a Jujutsu technique doesnt make its way into Judo (randori or kata), its either a weapons technique, or something strange and not common at all for a pre-Meiji warrior.

Tai Otoshi was the first throw I learned in karate. The problem with not recognizing the throw is that in modern Judo it is often done differently than it was in the time of Kano. In modern Judo people often use their rear leg on the throw. But correct Tai Otoshi is done just with the hands and no other point of contact to the Uke. I only learned this after dabbling a bit in Judo under someone who teaches Judo in the line of Hirano Tokio. And it was pretty funny to see many Judoka struggle with the throw while I could demonstrate it easily because it's fundamental to karate. BTW I didn't learn Uchimata in karate but the movement exists. Again it is done differently than modern sports Judo does it if you look at the Hirano line. They don't lift the rear leg but rather kick out exactly like we do in ushiro Geri. I don't know enough proper Judo but if you wanted to compare karate to Judo then comparing and old karate style to an old Judo lineage would be very fruitful indeed. Even though I'm not training in Judo I can point you in the right directions in Germany of you want to study this.

@m5a1stuart83

2 жыл бұрын

Doing some move when Uke standing still is easy but executing in Judo is hard. people have different opinions about throw but looking back to the first gen of Judo students. Tai Otoshi is still using foot to block the legs. Mifune doing Tai Otoshi. kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZneZqMqGgq_PcdI.html

@ryusuikarate

2 жыл бұрын

@@m5a1stuart83 I know that video very well. It looks like Mifune blocks the leg but he doesn't. The leg just touches uke by accident. The throw works wholly without the leg. It also wouldn't make sense to categorize tai otoshi as a te waza (hand technique) and it would have to go into the category of the leg techniques otherwise. Kano was very particular with this! I can point you to numerous judo schools in Germany where you can learn exactly how to do this. Tom Herold or Frank Thiele and there students know how to do this. (They also compete in tournaments by the way.) It's not easy to explain this via video and Judo is not my main sport so it doesn't matter to me much what others think about it. I can only say that if you don't believe me I can point you in the right direction where you can verify it for yourself "on the mat". My motto has always been "Get in the ring and show me".

@m5a1stuart83

2 жыл бұрын

@@ryusuikarate I am not in Germany. There are many Judo schools out there where you can challenge them in real life sparring.

@ryusuikarate

2 жыл бұрын

@@m5a1stuart83 Why should I challenge someone? I'm just saying that if you want to learn something you don't know I can tell you where to look. If people don't want to learn that doesn't concern me. It's hard enough to show people good karate and the the fight for traditional judo is not one I'm fighting. I'm just supporting the guys who do. The invitation always stands: Everyone who wants to learn can always visit me (everyone who just wants to get into the right with me is also welcome). I can only show good karate though. For the intricacies of judo techniques I can tell you where you can learn from the judo guys or get in the ring with them if you want.

Why BJJ? What is your reasoning behind that?

This is very Karate centric isn't it? The reason why there are only 48ish throws that those throws are there because they utilise a specific throwing principle. I argue that nearly every possible throw can be put under one of those 48ish throws as a variation but don't take my word on it. I just began judo a few years ago and that's what someone at the dojo said

@jedijudoka

2 жыл бұрын

Kodokan judo has 67 throws, unless you meant karate has 48

Does karate have hooks and uppercuts?

@leavemealoneyouprick

3 жыл бұрын

mawashi-tzuki is what a hook is called, i believe... spelling may be off though haha. i forget what the uppercut is called though.

@GojuRyuPhilosopher

3 жыл бұрын

It does indeed. There are a few different terms but the most common ones I've seen are age-zuki for uppercut (meaning "rising punch") and kagi-zuki for hooks (meaning "key punch"). Uppercuts especially are common in kata.

@AyeJordan7

3 жыл бұрын

@@GojuRyuPhilosopher oh can u answer my other question to please ✝️

I have a quick question and it doesn’t have anything to do with this video,but karate was a art that had grappling in it right,even the old masters explained hikite,the pulling hand,why is it that the karate In Okinawa dosnt practice in a realistic way?like for example they do 3 step,with the unrealistic punch,stepping forward and the hand on the hip,if the old masters text is true and there’s evidence of real karate,why do masters in Okinawa practice the Japanese way,I have black belt rank in practical taekwondo and Kempo jitsu by the way😂😂,love your content,if u can answer this question pleas do✝️❤️🥋

@Samlaren

3 жыл бұрын

In Goju Ryu we do practise the Hikite as a pulling motion to the Uke. But that have never been the sole use of hikite, it is also a way to generate more force to the punch by using a counter motion. But in Okinawa, and I believe all Goju Ryu styles practice both ways. Oh, and the Kihon of doing the Three step, as you call it, are very important as well to practice Kime (timing of the force you excert at the hit), movment and basic form. And that is not the Japanese way, it was practiced this way in Okinawa before Karate came to Japan.

@AyeJordan7

3 жыл бұрын

@@Samlaren I would nvr pull my hand to the hip in a real fight,to unrealistic and there’s lots of evidence of why the power generation thing is wrong,look at boxers,muay Thai fighters they hit really really hard without having a unrealistic way of punching,and 3 step is something that the Japanese added to karate bc they didn’t know the true Bunkai for the application,your nvr gonna block like that in a real fight,takes to long and punches fly very fast,they were nvr blocks to begin with,all close distance techniques,sorry but this is very wrong,I did research and read my books 😂

@Samlaren

3 жыл бұрын

@@AyeJordan7 Google "Mike Tyson Punch" and you see something that could be called a more realistic hikite. It is the same counter movment. All boxers use counter movment. Do you seriously mean that the non-punching hand stays in the same position when they punch? And what do you men by 3 step?

@AyeJordan7

3 жыл бұрын

@@Samlaren u said the hikite can be used to generate more power,I thought u meant when a fighter punches that hand should stay on the hip,Whitch is completely unrealistic,they have to have something in it when it pulls back,and wat I meant by 3 step is when they say u punch and I block and then I strike which is also completely unrealistic and dangerous for karate practiceners to practice,it teaches defense against completely unrealistic attacks,”blocks”that were nvr intended to be used as blocks,and a lot of the counters are unrealistic bc in a fight u would have a moving oppenet,3 step sparring is something the Japanese added to karate ,one of the things that watered it down,but I see your point on hikite,using the hips as power generation ❤️,the stance also helps with that bc it’s more wider,more impact

@Samlaren

3 жыл бұрын

@@AyeJordan7 Oh, now I am on the same page! The 3-step you mention is called Kihon Ippon Kumite, and is the first, and most basic form of fighting in Karate, and it is not something that was added in Japan, but is used in all Okinawan karate. It is not intended as a fighting form, even if it is called that, but a way to practice recieveng and counterstriking using basic techniques. And it is just the first form taught, and is not intended to simulate real fight but to practice basic techniques. The only kumite intended to simulate real fight is Kiso and Bunkai kumite. Other forms are just sparring (even go-kumite, full contact, is just sparring, not fighting). Regarding the unrealistic blocks, I have to say that the are used as Uke, and not blocks in Okinawan karate. IE both as blocks and attacks, depending on situation. I would say that in styles like Shotokan the block from the inside out, the Uchi or Ude uke, is not as common in higher level Goju practice, there we more often use the Kake uke (open hand block) or the Uchi koge uke (block withe inside of the arm) or even the teisho uke where you block with the lower palm of the hand. And I totally agree with you regarding the stance!

Uki goshi and O goshi aren't that similar my dude

@Samlaren

3 жыл бұрын

No? I havn't done any Judo for 30 years, but isnt the only differences that the O is over the hip, whereas Uki slips off, and to achieve the O you have to grip lower? I can be mistaken :-)

@Tamales21

3 жыл бұрын

@@Samlaren no, you nailed the difference on the energy over the hip should feel. But it is THE important difference that begginers always make

@Samlaren

3 жыл бұрын

@@Tamales21 Thank you! :)

@jedijudoka

2 жыл бұрын

Ya, grip is pretty similar, but O is using the hip as a big fulcrum to lift up and over and uki you pull uke to the hip and you shift your weight and bow so they swivel around the hip

Traditional karate is the original MMA

@jedijudoka

2 жыл бұрын

Nah, pankration in Ancient Greece has that title

@adhdmed

2 жыл бұрын

@@jedijudoka all countries during the time of ancient Greece practiced a version of MMA with weapons. Modern sport martial arts trains without weapons. In the mind of the West, other countries didn't exist until they were discovered by the west.

No shit. 15:21

I hate the mma crap

You talk too much